Summary

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY 09:00:11 >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 US CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES WITH THE SAME NUMBER 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3% >> RIGHT 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY 09:08:47 >> YES THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO 09:11:05 MR RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT >> CORRECT 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS MR KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50% 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT 09:14:38 >> RIGHT >> RIGHT 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW >> MR RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY MR RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE US SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR BARRY BLACK 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME AMEN 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED 09:32:53 MR FRIST: MR PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE FDA 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS MR REID: MR PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER 09:33:48 MR REID: THANK YOU, MR PRESIDENT 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER 09:34:24 MR FRIST: MR PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY MR PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR VITTER, 10 MINUTES 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING 09:38:28 MR ENZI: MR PRESIDENT, THANK YOU 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS 09:38:36 THE FDA HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR THE FDA ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS 09:39:38 DR VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 FDA THE FDA HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE FDA NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE FDA THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE FDA COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 FDA TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE FDA DURING DR VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE FDA 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE FDA AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR FDA COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE FDA DURING THE 110th CONGRESS 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM THE FDA NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS 09:42:40 DR VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 HELP COMMITTEE THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE FDA WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS VOTING YES ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT 09:43:40 MR GRASSLEY: YES MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs 09:48:53 DOEHERTY THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE FDA UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED ANOTHER EXAMPLE 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE FDA THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE FDA HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE FDA WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE FDA HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE FDA HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW EVEN IN THE FDA GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS OR CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS OR AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION, AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE? I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED WES BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE FDA, THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND CRS TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- NO LEGAL BASIS FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 CRS SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING CRS CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, HHS, FDA, WITHIN HHS SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING MR ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR WES 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR HERB BOCK'S POSITION 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A