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INT BROLL HOUSE ENERGY & COMMERCE GM RECALL HEARING HOUSE ENERGY AND COMMERCE HEARING 4/1/14 (CSPAN SWITCHED FEED, x 80) NHTSA Acting Administrator David Friedman Mary Barra, GM CEO 13:50:22 empty room 14:02:57 walk in barra 14:04:02 TIM MURPHY, chair, As soon as rolled of customers told GM that just by pumping knee it would shut off 14:04:20 great shot of cameras trained on Barra*** 14:04:42 just a year later GM told Delphi told them to change switch so it wouldn't turn off..NHTSA was also evaluating concerns with the cobult. But they only looked at airbag non deployment 14:05:32 Spike in warranty claims in Cobalt crashes.NTSA decided NOT to investigate..and also in 2010. 14:05:53 Pan from dias over to Barra**** GREAT SHOT 14:06:08 Not until 2013 14:06:26 Did not happen. Why didn't they put the pieces together. Why didn't anyone ask the questions. 14:06:50 Why did GM keep the old part number? Did they consider how faulty switch would interface with airbags? Why did.memo about size of keychains would solve the problems..why make link.did anyone ask why 14:07:21 Barra, head on listening 14:07:30 Does GM have problem communicate.What we have here is a failure to communicate and the failures were deadly 14:07:47 fix the culture. This is about restoring public trust. Could be prevented.hope and expectation wont hear blame game.All brilliant.People don't care that you know, they know that you care. 14:08:19 Bi partisan. 14:08:34 Ranking.Michael Burgess Dianna DeGette 14:10:32 holds up = switch that cost pennies TIGHT AND WIDE 14:10:44 they were warned again and again and did nothing 14:10:58 if you had a heavy key chain like my mom key chain// could cause it to shear right off 14:11:11 defective from the start 14:11:41 in 2003 the owner of a Saturn ion with 343 made a warranty report that she bumoped the key .130 claims over the decade. Never informed the public or told regulators 14:12:17 put into the record 14:12:22 initially GM opened investigations that concluded the switch was bad, didn't meet.. 14:12:42 GREAT SHOT, push in to Barra with stills around** **14:12:57 cost was only 57 cents 14:13:28 these are the keys of a staff member.there is a long insert. They were supposed to go in the middle and create a hole so keys wouldn't go back and forth. Unfortunately GM never made this public 14:14:01 GM knew it. They quietly redesigned the switch but didn't change part number. They did it knowing the new switch didn't meet specs. Put more bad cars on the road. 14:14:37 Between 2003- 2014 GM knew from investigations, law suits, etc. but time and time again GM did nothing knowing the cars were unsafe 14:15:02 I know we have families.we want to get to bottom of this be sure it doesn't happen again. Thank Mara for coming. New to company. Committed to fix this. We have a lot of questions. 14:15:29 UPTON- Zero margin for error. 14:17:39 todays hearing is personal for me bc I come from mich, the auto state, the auto cap of the world 14:17:54 both NHTSA and GM have probs with ign switches and airbags. 14:19:28 Dingell..identify the problem 14:19:37 Blackburn- owe this hearing to the public, GM customers, 12 people that lost their lives.see what the roles of GM were and figure out who is at fault. Who knew what when. Miss Barra that includes you. what did you know when you took the helm of GM 14:20:15 In my district the Saturn Ion was recalled, important to my constituents.Thanks you for being here. 14:20:38 Barra- head on listening 14:20:44 Waxman- have a sad déjà vu/ part of the comte with tires, each time heard about how others knew about the fix and how federal officials missed signals that should have alerted we are today. 14:21:23 over the last month full dimensions have unfolded. GM .dozens of crashes. 14:21:48 I know fams of some of the fams are in the audience. We owe it to them to find out what happened. The facts that we know are hard to believe. Gm has known for years and failed to take action to fix the problem. 14:22:23 resulted in a non public solution, fix for fewer than 500 drivers. 14:23:01 barra side shot, cameras around** 14:23:20 bc GM didn't institute a simple fix at least 12 people have died 14:23:32 GM still has failed to own up to potential problems. Modified for later model cars 14:23:48 Adelphi said the 2008-2011 switches still didn't meet GM specs.GM finally announced recall last fri but told public it was bc of bad parts during repairs, not bc of original parts 14:24:32 Agency missed red flags. But handicap bc a lot of info that GM knew that they didn't share. 14:24:49 need to be sure NHTSA and public have same info as auto execs MARY BARRA- CEO 14:26:52 Do you sear that the testimony.. 14:27:11 Statement 14:27:38 I cannot tell you why it took so long but we will find out 14:27:46 it is an extra situation. Vehicles we no longer make but I can on watch..transparent 14:28:03 cannot turn back the clock. Soon as I learned about the prob acted on it 14:28:15 we will not shirk from our respons now or in the future. Todays GM will do the right thing ***** 14:29:03 the facts will be the facts. Be sure that this does not happen again. Fully accountable. 14:29:25 identify and resolve any and all safety issues. I stand with him and senior leadership team stands with him as well 14:29:42 Murphy cu 14:29:48 latest rounds of recalls demonstrates how serious we are at todays gm. Identifies issue, brough forward and fix them. Work with one thing in mind. Customer and safety. 14:30:16 wide rear shot** 14:30:39 customer call centers, dealers, 14:32:25 technical center..heart of GM. Met and it was a tough meeting. Disappointed and upset. They had same questions 14:32:44 cu committee 14:32:48 want to make GM better 14:32:54 what we plan to do about those. We have retained Kenneth Feinberg for compensation.*** 14:33:23 expertise and objectivity to this effort 14:33:30 extraordinary event and responding in a extr way- civil and legal responsible ways. How to balance those in a respon manner QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 14:34:19 Murphy- as soon as hit the road lose steering and breaks 14:34:44 when first GM knew, correct? Yes. 14:34:53 Is it common practice for GM to allow parts to not meet GM specs? /// NO. But different between specs for steel and defect.material that doesn't meet spec but it acceptable.. 14:35:48 Is switch acceptable? At the beginning? // As we know today, it is not. 14:36:06 So in 2008 changes switch, right?// 14:36:28 turn to tab 25, e mail exchange. E mail notes.. cobalt is blowing up in their face. if this was a big prob why didn't they replace switch with cars already on the road. 14:37:16 Barra- doesn't match 14:37:22 Lot of statements made. That is why hired DeLuca. 14:37:32 You don't know why not replaced? // Don't know why// Why not identified as issue?// Don't know that is why we are investigating. 14:38:05 Did company investigate?// That is why they are investigating.// Should they?// yes 14:38:29 How about the cost being too high// Find that statement to be very disturbing. If that was the reason the decision was made that is unacceptable. That is not how we do biz at GM. 14:39:11 In general we have moved from a cost to a customer culture. Customer first. Core values, one of the most important issues. 14:39:35 DeGette 14:39:50 Knew about defect before . Is that correct? Yes or no will work. You don't know about that? 14:40:35 you don't know how long GM knew about this.// that is why we are doing the investigation// the specs is correct.// and these were between 4 and 10, correct? / GM was notified by Delphi by this. 14:41:18 we need a yes or no, I only have 5 minutes, I am sorry. 14:41:56 And btw ma'am.cuts off Barra. 14:42:10 Back and forth with DeGette. 14:44:24 camera on that correct 14:44:30 3 recalls were made this year. 14:44:46 gm is intending to replace , right?/ new design or old switch?/ old design/ 14:45:22 You are saying on going investigation..are you getting updates? Yes I am 14:45:36 Upton- 14:46:01 dox we looked at show gm had issues for 2 years that had redesign in 2006 14:46:17 who in GM would know about complaints?// Don't know that// Don't know who would have been handling the issue//What is supposed to happen 14:46:44 When you have a safety issue you have a team of engineers that work on that..have a cross functional team and then goes for a decision 14:47:08 Redesigned bc it doesn't meet specs, right? // Upton, engineering 101, new part should have a diff number// Correct// Did not happen// Correct// who made the decision to move forward w.o new part number// Will have name?// Yes.// Likely that same person decided not to recal the defective // Don't know. Part of investigation. 14:50:24 What is the timeline?// Very much want to know but we are doing an investigation that spanned over a decade. 14:50:44 When did GM inform NHTSA redesigned 14:51:03 Waxman didbnt recall until a month later..// company looking. 14:55:50 Waxman- later model car awith switch..recall implies I don't have to do anything but car miught have a sub par switch.// we are recalling all of those parts 14:56:24 all vehicles being recalled 14:56:29 Waxman- I know you are taking job at bad time to clean up mess. How can GM assure customers that new switches will meet requirements? 14:57:00 Barra- testing,e tc. 14:57:30 Saw this for the first time a day ago 14:57:44 Blackburn- todays GM. You are going to run it in a different way than in the past. Making some changes. Timeline. This is the first investigation we are going to do. 14:59:58 Do you think it was a cover up or sloppy work?.. Waiting for info 15:00:10 anything to do with auto bailout? 15:00:31 have you brought engineers into the process? 15:01:25 Did you say defective part? // Points that suggest that. Why doing investigation. Going to hear from more than one of us about not having new part number. 15:02:13 does that seem inconceivable to you/ Yes, inconcei, not our process and unacceptable. 15:02:54 SIDE SHOT COMTE. 15:03:00 DINGELL*** 15:03:07 begin by telling families they have our sympathies. Tragic indeed. Condolences of family. Now it is incumbent upon Congress to determine how happened and take steps to see how could have happened. 15:04:19 is it correct GM recalled 2.5 million small parts/Yes// Is it correct expanded recall of small cars bc maybe on / Yes/ Correct that switch was developed in 1990s and approved in 2002?/ Yes./ Correct that GM own designs ..torque to move switch// Yes. 15:05:26 Miss Barra is it correct approved production of switch despite test results.. showing didn't meet torque requirements// not clear to me 15:05:57 Correct redesign of switch//Yes// 15:06:06 Is it correct that the torque requirement was the same// Not clear to me. 15:06:30 Did redesign switch meet requirements// ?/ Did redesign meet torque requirements// Yes 15:06- 15:10 STOPPED LOGGING>>> 15:10:48 Barton- you are the CEO but you were the vp for product development 15:11:13 Barra- We will not accept parts that don't meet our performance safety durability requirements*** 15:13:39 if we find we have a part that is defective we do a recall 15:13:48 Barton- not an acceptable answer to the American people. we are not telling you what specs to set but there shouldn't be a part used in any auto product that doesn't meet the specifications. 15:14:20 At one level was the decision made to over ride. // Part of our investigation to answer that question. 15:14:47 Braley// Staring on photos on back same age as sons, my son owns one of the of my father in age 18 in dress blues.the focus of this hearing is on GM commitment to safety.. 15:16:21 20 years ago an iowa family gave me this promo screw set comes first at GM*** so my question for you is what has changed at GM? What has changed at GM 15:17:05 The way that we are working now. The decision making, leading by example.In addition to when technical community makes decision we will review it to see if more to do 15:17:35 Isnt core value that safety always comes first?// Never seen that// 15:17:53 Barra- todays GM focused on safety. 15:18:32 reads from NYT-problem known about for a decade led to 12 deaths. 15:19:18 agree this is a grave crisis// took way too long, not acceptable. That is why we are taking changes.we will continue to make process and people changes as we get results of investigation. Take all recommendations and will make changes. 15:19:56 Article added to record. 15:20:04 Blackburn- submit new core values 15:20:31 Burgess- why did GM embark on small car program 10 years ago?// To have complete portfolio.//New biz line? // The cobalt was following a previous small car. All new program. // Because of the CAFÉ standards?// Cant answer that, wasn't in decision making at that point. 15:23:27 side shot committee**** 15:24:19 people evaluating this must ask why no airbag went off. Would that be a logical question for airbag to deploy. Barra- Tragic situation. See it as a tragedy and we have apologized. I find it unacceptable that anyone.we will take action. Have made process changes. Will fix the process. World class. 15:25:34 Should be a red flag, air bag non deployments 15:26:22 Barra- tragic situation. Any time there is a loss of life in a traffic situation.will make whatever info we have available. Schakowsky 15:27:00 these deaths were needless. So I want to ask about something more than an apology. How will GM today deal with accidents bf GM bankruptcy.New GM may not be liable for accidents that occurred bf July 2009. Is that your understanding 15:27:45 we want to do the right thing for our customers. Took too long to get to answers. That is why we hired Mr Feinberg. He will bring expertise..have civic and legal responsibilities*** 15:28:19 indicates GM will give settlement with families with lost ones lost their lives 15:28:32 just begun to wotk with him, first meeting Friday. Take 30-60 days to evaluate. Not made any decisions. Just started . 15:29:00 S- during the restructuring did GM discuss? 15:29:11 I wasn't aware of this issue but our investigation will cover.not known at senior leadership of the co. GOOD BACK AND FORTH// 15:29:28 Does GM accept responsibilities. 15:29:36 B: tragic, apologize, 15:29:42 talking about respon and liability 15:29:48 do you take responsibility? Is the new GM responsible? 15:29:58 B: we will make best decisions for our and moral responsibiltieis 15:30:12 do right thing for customers. 15:30:54 underwhelmed by safety officer 15:31:24 will take action.. take serious steps and hold people accountable 15:31:36 so no one has lost their job as a result of knowledge about defective part 15:31:47 few weeks in and process changes and will look at implications and take approp steps. 15:32:20 Gingrey- Brook lived in my district.brought to light what is going on now 15:33:21 kliled on her 29th bd..horrific before her death she took the cobalt in for service and customer states shut off while driving, please check***** 15:34:22 not included bc side impact// included in GM count, yes or no? // no. 15:35:38 whether head on or side for same reason and she is dead..i don't understand why gm doesn't include the non deployment of airbags.can you explain that to us 15:36:00 all accidents are very tragic and deeply sorry for those. 15:36:20 do you plan to investigate// 15:36:48 to what extent do you involve service do you make sure dealerships and service depts. are making sure getting info//will communicate info. 15:37:39 What are drivers supposed to do in meantime. If you have the key with the ring.we are making loaners or rentals available.13000 customers in rentals or loaners now. 15:38:11 if take key off ring safe to drive? We believe it is safe based on our testing. Tonko//Barra 15:41:50 Barra- systemically gone across the company and are making changes..most detailed we have every provided..conducting an investigation with mr. 15:42:28 leadership at the top, how make decisions, how focus on customer.culture change doesn't happen in a year or two. Dedicated to it and want to have safest vehicles on the road. 15:43:29 we will share the appropriate information. We will commit that we will share what is appropriate.// No commitment to share the full report? Will share appro// Hear the answer. Scalise 15:44:18 pan audience to Barra, no cameras around her 15:45:30 Barra- I was aware on Jan 31 of this year. 15:45:45 When was this found out within GM. 15:46:18 holds up dox= has anyone at GM taken this employee when you signed off on this why didn you change the part number and why did you approve the change and not recall? 15:46:53 you are under oath- have any of you all asked him the questions? 15:47:40 you talk about a new culture. Has anyone been held accountable? 15:47:54 just learned about it in jan// redesigned in 2006// 15:48:29 head on wide wide** 15:48:37 are you aware of whether or not GM has met timeliness. That would be a violation of federal law. // aware of findings from mr. volukas today// 15:49:18 there were points in time where one part had info not shared with other sides.didn't understand info would be valuable to another party. Already made changes to structure so that wont happen again. Green 15:50:02 congrats on being the ceo of gm.been a customer of gm.lists all the cars he has from gm. 15:51:14 I thot of my wife's key ring. It has everything on the world on it.. 15:53:41 when someone died in chemical accident. what didn't they do that caused people to die. GM greater company than to do that. 15:54:11 you need to fix it but you need to fix it as quickly as you can (OFF CAMERA DAMIT-maybe somewhere on cam) 15:54:44 wish you would send a note to me. 15:54:53 wide side comte** Griffith 15:55:09 breach of protocol?/ Not acceptable reason to do that.// A reason might be that harder to track prob with old part when you have new part put in place// Yes// 15:55:40 While you don't know name do you know job title to make decision not to put new part. Within engineering dept.// In your dept// since 2011. 15:56:27 trail lawyer people at GM do you not?// Why didn't your team of engineers figure it out that airbags wont f properly 15:56:53 congressman, answers I want too. Hold people accountable. Taken way too long 15:57:05 what kind of and moral. 15:57:14 side wide** 15:57:22 it would have been easier to do it in bankruptcy. 15:57:30 best thing in the world is as soon as find a prob we fix it and it gets fixed and doesn't create any tragedies 15:57:50 initial convos with Feinberg. 30-60 days. //Anyone given best or worst case scenarios? //In public but none given to me. 15:58:22 would have affected a bailout or prior to that the people keeping GM afloat. Have the potential to dissuade from giving cash to GM 15:58:50 as soon as we fix the liabilities are contained. As we look at probs we wanna fix as soon as we can. If safety issue will make change 15:59:09 in real world of bus harder to get money if new source of liability//depends on situation.. 15:59:42 Severity three- what does that mean?// Don't know 16:00:16 Chair: did GM wilfully negotiate during bankruptcy did they purposely with hold any info about pending lawsuits about cobalt? // I personally didn't withhold any info.. 16:00:54 Welch: Got to thank GM for doing the impossible. Got dems and repubs working together 16:01:30 Known to me in Jan 2014. // Totally irrelevant to the people who lost their lives// Thot you meant when did I know// Changed switch in 2006. 16:02:06 Hope to get those answers. // Starting point. Someone decided to change a critical part of the car bn 2006 and 2007. If you acted on this aggressively how many cars would you have to recall. //Give me an estimate// Talk to your back row// 1.2 million// Cut in half, maybe more. 16:03:12 What would have been cost to GM if done recall in 2007. 1.8 vehicles, something less than 100 million.// Cost of recall now being done 8 years later// Can provide the info// Want people to be able to hear this// Decision delay is money and lives at risk. Ball park. 16:04:08 if we had acted at that point, smaller population. I don't understand your question. 16:04:21 if I were on the board of directors and I had a co that could have acted 8 years ago but by not acting, increased in magnitufe, damage to bottom line, reputation to company, harm to citizens 16:04:58 would have been substantially less at that time frame than it will be now 16:05:24 Settlements confidential by both parties// This is not good, you are the company now 16:05:45 do you believe that when a co has been sued on product safety do you think the co that settles should be able to keep secret what that settlement was about 16:06:09 every settlement is unique. No comment. This one is unique. 16:06:26 if a company settles and pays a lot of money to pay settlement for death should they be able to keep secret from govt agency that is supposed to keep safe 16:06:50 so if you don't have to do it, you wont do it. Make assumption both parties agree to it, what I was told. Long 16:07:10 side wide** 16:07:25 cu families and photos** 16:11:21 how many models, how many ignition switches are made?// don't know// Yarmuth 16:13:16 cu families and push into them.they look bored 16:13:33 aware of any other ignition problems that have been discovered?/ Not reviewed everything. In this case took way too long. 16:14:14 how decide push button or key? What are differences in terms of safety// We evaluate, the push button start evaluate across the portfolio. Want experts to provide that info. Both can be designed to be safe. It is a function, a lighter when they have pushbutton start. 16:18:39 Harper- we do not trust the company right now 16:19:36 when people talk to piece part it is just the switch?// didn't write the note but generallythat is what the e mail means 16:19:54 the e mail says increase of 90 cents// since warranty offset was 10-15 cents they didn't make the change// that is not something I find acceptable. This analysis is inappropriate// I appreciate this is nto appropriate but this is what happened here// we will take action, not the behavior we want. 16:20:41 want to make sure that this never happens to anyone else again. Lorrie Queen, who was she?// Vehicle line 16:21:06 how does cost factor into safety/ THEY DON'T 16:21:39 it hasn't been this way before but the way ti is now. // More of a cost culture before but now focus on safety and quality 16:22:10 When GM filed bankruptcy in 2009. the fact that GM going thru many years of financial issues did that impact how this was categorized?// Cant answered that issue. Will . 16:23:05 I would like to see other traffic deaths or injuries but was not part of this total. Castor 16:23:38 lists people who died. 16:26:39 we will put all the pieces together of incidents and make the process changes.//is a repair cost of 57 cents too costly.// If we are making the decision on safety we don't look at cost. We make the change. 16:27:41 reading from nyt piece.inadvertently bumping the key while running.baffling that gm knew about it a decade ago and told no big deal.when your engine cuts off would you consider this a safety issue?// Ah, yes.// Not aware til 2013.// At time NYT wrote report what was your position?// In 2005 I was in manuf . //equipment that we use to built cars/ Big news paper writes it? not aware?// No, didn't know. Didn't know it was an issue with Cobalt. Terry 16:30:50 what is the difference bn non compliance and a defect./Broad question/ Depends on the specific situation/ Regarding ignition switch/ My understanding is it is a term used for standards versus when we feel it is a defect. DeGette 16:33:08 thinking about the new switches but you are saying will meet the highest safety standards// Going thru extensive validation testing// Tab 53 says minimum torque must be 15 n-cm. is that the standard then?// yes// 16:34:05 wide head on DeGette talking 16:34:11 this comte had experienced with Feinberg.did BP investigation. Did fund after marathon.But want to make sure when you hire him is really doing something. He is hired to sort out value of people's claims and assign money. I assume GM is doing that..Willing to put together some sort of compensation fund? Is that why you hired him? 16:35:06 So no money involved in this? // Just hired him no money involved// Hired, announced today, but no money to compensate people/ Will determine what the right course of action is// Havent made any decisions on that yet. General Motors Ignition Switch Recall General Motors CEO Mary Barra and David Friedman, acting administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, testified at a hearing on the automaker's ignition switch recall.The defect was linked to at least a dozen deaths. · Barra, Mary Chief Executive Officer General Motors · Friedman, David J. Administrator Department of Transportation National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
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