Summary

1130 COHEN HRG DEM ISO FS7 80 UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM HEARING: Michael Cohen, Former Attorney to President Donald Trump Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 - 10:00am Location: 2154 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 WITNESS: Michael Cohen Former Attorney for Donald Trump 113101 Mr. Cummings >> The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Cohen >> Shame on you, Mr. Jordan. That's not what I said. Shame on you. >> Mr. Chairman -- Mr. Cohen >> That's not what I said. What I said is I took responsibility and I take responsibility. What I was doing is explaining to the gentleman that his facts are inaccurate. I take responsibility for my mistakes. Alright? I am remorseful and I am going to prison. 113129 Mr. Cohen I will be away from my wife and family for years. So before you turn around and you cast more dispersion, please understand there are people watching you today that know me a whole lot better. I made mistakes. I own them and I didn't fight with the southern district of New York. I didn't put the system through an entire scenario. But what I did do is I pled guilty and I am going to be, again, going to prison. Mr. Cummings >> Ms. Ms. Norton? 113201 Ms. Norton >> Mr. Cohen, at the center of the reason you are going to prison is conviction for campaign finance violations. And they center around some salacious revelations. The "Washington post" reported or aired a "Access Hollywood" video. It set a record for the number of people who watched, crashed the newspaper's server. But this happened in early October on the cusp of the election. 113252 >> What was Mr. Trump's reaction to the video becoming public at that time? And was he concerned about the impact of that video on the election? Mr. Cohen >> The answer is yes. As I stated before, I was in London at the time visiting my daughter who was studying there for a Washington semester abroad. And I received a phone call during the dinner from Hope Hicks stating that she had just spoken to Mr. Trump and we need you to start making phone calls to the various different 113330 news outlets that you have relationships with, and we need to spin this. What we want to do is just to claim that this was men locker room talk. Ms. Norton >> Was the concern about the election in particular? Mr. Cohen >> The answer is yes. Then couple that with Karen Mcdougal, which then came out around the same time, and then on top of that the stormy Daniels matter. Ms. Norton >> Yeah. And these things happened in the month before the election 113403 >> and almost one after the other. The stormy Daniels revelation where prosecutors and officials learned of that matter and prosecutors stated that the officials at the magazine contacted you about the story. 113433 The magazine of course is "The national enquirer." That is correct that they did? Mr. Cohen >> Yes, ma'am. Ms. Norton >> -- Come to you. Were you concerned about this new story becoming public right after the "Access Hollywood" study in terms of impact on the election? 113500 Mr. Cohen >> I was concerned about it, but more importantly, Mr. Trump was concerned about it. Ms. Norton >> That was my next question. What was the president's concern about these matters becoming public in October as we were about to go into an election? Mr. Cohen >> I don't think anybody would dispute this belief that after the wildfire that encompassed the Billy bush tape that a second follow-up to it would have been 113531 pleasant and he was concerned with the effect that it had had on the campaign, on how women were seeing him and ultimately whether or not he would have a shot in the general election. Ms. Norton >> Until you negotiated the $130,000 payment -- Mr. Cohen >> The $130,000 number was not a number that was actually negotiated. It was told to me by Keith Davidson that this is a number that Ms. Clifford wanted. 113604 Ms. Norton >> You finally completed that deal, as it were, on October the -- Mr. Cohen >> 28th. Ms. Norton >> Days before the election. What happened in the interim? Mr. Cohen >> Contemplated whether or not to do it. Wasn't sure if she was really going to go public. There was, again, some communications back and forth between myself and Keith Davidson. 113631 >> And ultimately it came to either do it or don't, at which time, again, I had gone into Mr. Trump's office as I did after each and every conversation, and he had told me he had spoken to a couple friends, it's 130,000 and it's not a lot of money and we should do it. So go ahead and do it. And I was at the time with Allen Weissleberg where he directed us to go back to Weissleberg's office and figure this all out. Ms. Norton >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 113703 Mr. Cummings >> Mr. Meadows Mr. Meadows >> Mr. Cohen, do you know Lynn Patton? I'm right here. Do you know Lynn Patton? Mr. Cohen >> Yes, I do. Mr. Meadows >> I asked Lynn to come today in her personal capacity to actually shed some light. How long have you known Ms. Patton? Mr. Cohen >> I'm responsible for Ms. Patton joining the Trump organization in the job that she currently holds. Mr. Meadows >> I'm glad you acknowledge that because 113730 you made some very demeaning comments about the president that Ms. Patton doesn't agree with. In fact, it has to do with your claim of racism. She says that as a daughter of a man born in Birmingham, Alabama, that there is no way that she would work for an individual who was racist. How do you reconcile the two of those? Mr. Cohen >> As neither should I as the son of a holocaust survivor. 113802 Mr. Meadows >> But, Mr. Cohen, I guess what I'm saying is, is I've talked to the president over 300 times. I've not heard one time a racist comment out of his mouth in private. So how do you reconcile it? Do you have proof of those conversations? Do you have tape recordings of those conversations? Mr. Cohen >> I would ask you to - Mr. Meadows >> Do you have tape recordings of those conversations? Mr. Cohen >> No, sir. Mr. Meadows >> Well you've taped everybody else. Why wouldn't you - Mr. Cohen >> That's also not true, sir. That's not true. Mr. Meadows >> You haven't taped anybody. Mr. Cohen >> I have taped individuals. Mr. Meadows >> How many times have you taped individuals? 113832 Mr. Cohen >> Maybe 100 times over ten years. Mr. Meadows >> Is that a low estimate? Because I've heard it's over 200 times. Mr. Cohen >> No. It's approximately 100. From what I recall. But I would ask that you ask me a question, sir - Mr. Meadows >> Do you have proof, yes or no? Mr. Cohen >> I do. I do. Mr. Meadows >> Where's the proof? Mr. Cohen >> Ask Ms. Patton how many people who are black are executives at the Trump organization. The answer is zero. Mr. Meadows >> We can go through this. I would ask unanimous consent 113901 >> that her entire statement be put in the record. Mr. Cummings >> Without objection. Mr. Meadows >> Let me go on a little bit further. Did you collect $1.2 million or so from Navardas? Mr. Cohen >> I did. Mr. Meadows >> For access to the trump administration? Mr. Cohen >> No, sir. Mr. Meadows >> Why did you collect it? Mr. Cohen >> Because they came to me based upon my knowledge of the enigma Donald Trump, what he thinks -- Mr. Meadows >> Did they pay you 1.2 -- Mr. Cohen >> Please, sir, let me finish - 113929 Mr. Meadows >> No. Did they pay you 1.2 million dollars to give you advice? Mr. Cohen >> Yes, they did. They - A multibillion dollar conglomerate came to me looking for information, not something that's unusual here in D.C., looking for information. And they believed that I had a value. And that the value was the insight that I was capable of offering them and they were willing to pay. Mr. Meadows >> How many times did you meet with them? For $1.2 million how many times did you meet with them? 114000 Mr. Cohen >> I provided them with both in-person and telephone access whenever they needed it. Mr, Meadows >> How many times? That's a question. Mr. Cohen >> I don't recall sir. Mr. Meadows >> So did you ever talk to them? Mr. Cohen >> I spoke to them on several occasions. Mr. Meadows >> How many? Mr. Cohen >> Ugh, six times. Mr. Meadows >> Six times. Wow. $200,000 a call. Mr. Cohen >> Sir, I also would like to -- Mr. Meadows >> Hold on! This is my five minutes, Mr. Cohen. Not yours. Did you get money from the back of Kazakhstan? Mr. Cohen >> It's not a bank of Kazakhstan. It's called BTA. 114032 Mr. Meadows >> BTA bank. Kazakhstan BTA bank. Did you get money from them? Mr. Cohen >> I did. Mr. Meadows >> For what purpose. Mr. Cohen >> The purpose was because the former CEO of that bank had absconded with between 4-6 billion dollars. And some of that money was here in the United States. And they sought my assistance in terms of finding, locating that money and helping them to recollect it. Mr. Meadows >> Are you saying that all the reports that you were paid in some estimates 114101 >> over $4 million to have access and understanding of the Trump administration -- you're saying all of that was just paid to you just because you're a nice guy? Mr. Cohen >> I am a nice guy, but more importantly -- Mr. Meadows >> I would beg to differ. The record reflects that you're not a nice guy. Mr. Cohen >> Sir, each and every contract contained the clause in my contracts that said I will not lobby and I do not do government relations work. In fact, in fact 114128 navardas sent me their contract which stated specifically that they wanted me to lobby, that they wanted me to provide access to government including the President. That information, that paragraph was crossed out by me, initialled and written in my own handwriting. It says, I will not lobby or do government relations work. Mr. Meadows >> So navardas representative say that it was like they were hiring a non registered lobbyist. So you disagree with that? Mr. Cohen >> I don't know what they said, sir, 114201 >> But the contract speaks for itself - Mr. Meadows >> Have you ever contacted anybody in the administration? Mr. Cohen >> Yes. Mr. Meadows >> To advocate on behalf of any aspect of any of your contracts? I ask unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous consent - Mr. Cummings >> The gentleman's time has expired. You may answer the question. Mr. Cohen >> I don't know what you're referring to, sir. Mr. Meadows >> Mr. Chairman -- Mr. Cummings >> Mr. Clay. 114230 Mr. Clay >> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cohen, I'm pleased you agreed to testify today voluntarily. In my view, we are all here for just one reason, and that's the American people are tired of being lied to. They have been lied to by President Trump. They have been lied to by the president's children. They have been lied to by the President's legal representatives. And it pains me to say 114300 that they have been even lied to by his congressional enablers who are still devoted to perpetuating and protecting this giant con game on the American people. Now, Mr. Cohen, I'd like to talk to you about the President's assets since by law these must be reported accurately on his federal financial disclosure 114331 >> and when he submits them for a bank loan. Mr. Cohen, you served for nearly a decade as then businessman Trump's personal attorney and so-called fixer. Did you also have an understanding of the president's assets and how he valued those items? Mr. Cohen >> Yes. Mr. Clay >> In November of 2017, crane's New York business reported that 114401 >> the Trump organization provided, quote, flagrantly untrue revenue figures going back to at least 2010 to influence crane's ranking of the largest private companies in New York. According to the reports, while the Trump organization reported nearly $9.5 billion in revenues in 2016, public filings suggested revenues were actually less than 1/10 of that. 114432 >> To your knowledge, did the President or his company ever inflate assets or revenues? Mr. Cohen >> Yes. Mr. Clay >> Was that done with the president's knowledge or direction? Mr. Cohen >> Everything was done with the knowledge and at the direction of Mr. Trump. Mr. Clay >> Tell us why he would do that and what purpose did it serve. Mr. Cohen >> It depends upon the situation. There were times that I was asked, again with Allen Weissleberg, 114501 the CFO, to go back to speak with an individual from Forbes, because Mr. Trump wanted each year to have his net worth rise on the Forbes wealthiest individuals list. And so what you do is you look at the assets and you try to find an asset that has say, for example, 40 Wall Street, which is 114530 >> about 1.2 million square feet. Find an asset that is comparable, find the highest price per square foot that's achieved in the area and apply it to that building. Or if you're going off of your rent roll, go by the gross rent roll times a multiple and you make up the multiple which is something he had talked about. It's based upon what he wanted to value the asset at. Mr. Clay >> You know, you have provided this committee with copies 114601 >> of the president's financial statements or parts of them from 2011, 2012 and 2013. And Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit those for the record. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to submit the statements to the record. Mr. Cummings >> Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Clay >> Thank you. Can you explain why you had these financial statements and what you used them for? Mr. Cohen >> So these financial statements were used by me for two purposes. 114603 >> One was discussing with media whether it was Forbes or other magazines, to demonstrate Mr. Trump's significant net worth.That was one function. Another was when we were dealing later on with insurance companies, we would provide them with these copies so that they would understand that the premium, which is based sometimes upon the individual's 114700 >> capabilities to pay, would be reduced. Mr. Clay >> And all of this was done at the President's direction and with his knowledge? Mr. Cohen >> Yes. Because whatever the numbers would come back to be, we would immediately report it back. Mr. Clay >> And did this information provided to us inflate the president's assets? Mr. Cohen >> I believe these numbers are inflated. Mr. Clay >> And of course, 114731 >> inflating assets to win a newspaper poll to boost your ego is not a crime. But to your knowledge, did the president ever provide inflated assets to a bank in order to help him obtain a loan? Mr. Cummings >> The gentleman's time has expired, but you may answer that question. Mr. Cohen >> These documents and others were provided to Deutsche Bank on one occasion where I was with them in our attempt to obtain 114801 >> money so we can put a bid on the Buffalo bills. Mr. Clay >> Thank you for your answer. Mr. Cummings >> Mr. Hice of Georgia Mr. Hice >> I'd like to yield a second to the gentleman from North Carolina. Mr. Meadows >> I thank the gentleman for yielding. I want to ask unanimous consent to put into the record an article from stat which indicated that Mr. Cohen's promised access, not just Trump, but also the circle around him, it was almost as if we were hiring a lobbyist, close quote. I ask unanimous consent. Mr. Cummings >> Without objection. 114830 Mr. Meadows >> I ask unanimous consent that we put into the record a criminal referral for violating section 22 USC of the statute number 611. I ask unanimous consent that my letter referring Mr. Cohen for violating Fara for illegal lobbying activity be entered into the record. Mr. Cummings >> Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Meadows >> I asked unanimous consent that the first order of business for this committee is for us to look in a bipartisan 114900 way at criminal referrals at the next business meeting. Mr. Cummings >> These are not documents. There are objections. Mr. Meadows >> So we're objecting to a unanimous consent request? Mr. Chairman? Mr. Cummings >> Yes. Mr. Meadows >> I will yield back. Mr. Cummings >> Let me be clear. Mr. Hice, I'm going to give you your whole five minutes, alright? 114930 Mr. Hice >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cummings >> In fairness to you. Mr. Meadows, the chairman, the ranking member made me aware that I had given a little more time to Ms. Wasserman-schultz. I was going to let you do that anyway, but I just want the committee to know that because there are so many members, I'm going to be strict on this five minutes, all right? Thank you very much. Mr. Hice, you have five minutes. 114959 Mr. Hice >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Cohen you said you lied, but you're a liar. If you lied you are a liar by definition. You also said a moment ago that the facts are inaccurate. If they are facts they are accurate and that would make you inaccurate, but I would like to take a moment and I would like to know who you consulted with to prepare for today's hearing? Lanny Davis and who else? Mr. Cohen >> I consulted with my counsel, Lanny Davis as well as Michael Monaco. Mr. Hice >> All right. Did you or Michael 115030 >> or Lanny Davis or anyone else cooperate with the Democratic majority to prepare for this hearing? Mr. Cohen >> I'm sorry, say that again, please? Mr. Hice >> Did you or anyone else on your team cooperate with the Democrat party in preparing for this hearing? Mr. Cohen >> We've spoken to the party. Mr. Hice >> Okay. Did you prepare with chairman Cummings or anyone on your team? Mr. Cohen >> What do you mean by prepare? Mr. Hice >> Prepare for this hearing? Mr. Cohen >> Prepare? I prepared with my counsel. Mr. Hice >> Did you prepare with the 115100 >>Democrat majority or chairman Cummings. Mr. Cohen >> We spoke with chairman Cummings and the party. Mr. Hice >> With chairman Schiff? Mr. Cohen >> I spoke with chairman Schiff and his people, as well. Mr. Hice >> Were there any other individuals acting as a liaise for you and your party. Mr. Cohen >> I'm sorry, sorry, what did you say? Mr. Hice >> Did you have a liaison other than who you mentioned that were working with the majority to prepare for this hearing? 115134 Mr. Cohen >> Liaison. We spoke with various individuals that you just raised, yes. Mr. Hice >> Tom Steyer, him or any of his representatives or anyone associated with him, any of them paying Lanny Davis to represent you? Mr. Cohen >> Not that I'm aware of. Mr. Hice >> Who is paying Lanny Davis? Mr. Cohen >> At the moment no one. Mr. Hice >> He is doing all this work for nothing? Mr. Cohen >> yes, sir. 115200 Mr. Hice >> Okay. Mr. Cohen >> And I hope so. [ Laughter ] Mr. Hice >> I kind of doubt it, but -- how did Lanny Davis come to represent you? Did he approach you or did you approach him? Mr. Cohen >> I reached out to Lanny Davis at the recommendation of my former counsel over at McDermott, Will & Emory who knew Mr. Davis and Mr. -- Mr. Hice >> So you reached out to Mr. Davis? 115230 Mr. Cohen >> I did, yes, initially. Mr. Hice >> Okay. So did you want to testify before Congress or did he urge you to testify here? Mr. Cohen >> I was asked to come here, and I am here, sir, voluntarily because it's my decision -- Mr. Hice >> By who? My question, did he ask you to come here? Mr. Cohen >> No, sir. Mr. Hice >> Okay because he says that he did ask you to come here and that he convinced you and also that he did the same with 115300 >> Chairman Cummings, as well. So your testimony here is that you approached Lanny Davis to represent you and to come here. He did not persuade you to come here? Mr. Cohen >> He did not persuade me. Actually, chairman Cummings, which was part of the conversations that we engaged in with his people as well as chairman Schiff and others, we spoke in order to ask me to come here voluntarily. 115329 Mr. Hice >> I find the connecting of the dots here with -- with Mr. Davis and you and frankly the chairman and perhaps others to be rather stunning that there is an agenda for all this happening here today, and I believe, frankly, that that's to bring the President down, to impugn the President. You made an oath last time you were here and that oath meant nothing to you then. We had an oath here in this very room about a month ago, 115401 >> and it was, quote, be clear that I will seek the truth, nothing but the truth so help me god, end quote. It sounds like an oath to me. The Chairman made that statement in this very room last month and here we are today, our first big hearing, with you as we all know a convicted liar, lying to Congress, a criminal, and I believe this witness is totally incompatible with the stated goal of having to seek the truth in this hearing. 115437 >> This is the first time in the history of Congress we have someone testifying here who has already been convicted of lying to Congress so congratulations for being the first in Congress to do that Mr. Cohen >> thank you Mr. Hice >> and Mr. Cummings as well? I can't believe we have brought this committee to its knees in terms of losing its credibility and it's a shameful mockery of what our purpose is. I yield back. 115502 Mr. Cummings >> The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Lynch. Mr. Lynch >> Let me just pick up on those last comments. Want to talk about a low point? How about Mr. Papadopoulos pled guilty, Mr. Manafort convicted, pled guilty to two other charges. Mr. Gates pled guilty, Mr. Flint pled guilty, Mr. Vanders pled guilty, Mr. Kilimnik indicted for obstruction of justice and for two years 115530 >> you want to talk about an agenda, my friends on the other side of the aisle refuse to bring any of these people up before the committee. So today for the first day we have one witness who voluntarily is coming forward to testify. Your side ran away and we are trying to bring it to the American people. So, Mr. Cohen - Mr. Cohen >> Sir? Mr. Lynch >> Thank you for voluntarily coming before the committee to testify. 115600 >>I want to ask you about your statements regarding Trump Tower and Moscow, and I want to drill down some of the facts and details. Now you may not be aware of it, but this goes back a ways. Back in 1987, Mr. Trump wrote that he'd had ongoing discussions with Soviet officials back then to build a luxury, a large luxury hotel across from the Kremlin in partnership with the Soviet Union. So at that time it was the Soviet Union. 115632 >> I want to ask you, in your filing with the special counsel, Mueller's office, the prosecutors wrote and I quote, Mr. Cohen discussed the status and progress of the Moscow project with individual 1 on more than the three occasions Mr. Cohen claimed to the committee and he briefed family members of individual 1 with the company about the project. I know this is redundant, but Mr. Cohen, 115700 >>who were you referring to here when we refer to individual 1? Mr. Cohen >> Donald J. Trump. Mr. Lynch >> Okay. And the company? Mr. Cohen >> The Trump organization through a subsidiary. Mr. Lynch >> Okay. And who were the family members that you briefed on the Trump tower Moscow project? Mr. Cohen >> Don Trump Jr. And Ivanka Trump. Mr. Lynch >> Okay. Now were these in the regular course of business or did the president or family request the briefings? Mr. Cohen >> This is in the regular course of business. Mr. Lynch >> Do you recall, there is a question on the number of briefings, 115731 >>do you recall how many there might have been? Mr. Cohen >> I'm sorry, sir? Mr. Lynch >> Do you recall how many of these briefings there might have been? Mr. Cohen >> Approximately ten in total. Mr. Lynch >> All right. In your written remarks you also wrote and I quote, there were at least a half dozen times between the Iowa caucus in January 2016 and the end of June when Mr. Trump would ask me, how is it going in Russia referring to the Russia Moscow tower project. How did the president communicate those questions to you? Was it verbally or over the phone? 115803 Mr. Cohen >> Verbally most of the time. Virtually all of the time. It would -- he said say Michael -- he was reading to say a rally or to a car as I would walk him to the elevator he would ask me questions quickly regarding a series of issues. Mr. Lynch >> Could you tell what he was referring to in terms of the project in Russia? Mr. Cohen >> No, this would be it. Otherwise there would be no reason to ask it of me. Mr. Lynch 115829 >> Right. Right. You also wrote and I quote, to be clear, Mr. Trump knew of and directed the Trump Moscow negotiations throughout the campaign and lied about it, closed quote. How did the president actually direct the negotiations? What details did he direct? Mr. Cohen >> Well, after each communication that I had I would report back to him and our goal was to get this project. We were interested in building what 115900 >> would have been the largest building in all of Europe. Sir, I -- if I can say one last thing. Mr. Lynch >> Please, go ahead. Mr. Cohen >> -- In regard to the gentleman's statements since this is on topic. The lies that I told to Congress in fairness, benefited Mr. Trump. It was in furtherance of my protection of Mr. Trump which I stated in my testimony, and I am not protecting Mr. Trump anymore, and so while I truly 115931 >> appreciate taking some of your time, to attack me every single time about taxes, I have no credibility, it's for exactly that reason that I spent the last week searching boxes in order to find the information that I did. So that you don't have to take my word for it. I don't want you to. I want you to look at the documents. I want you to make your own decision. Mr. Lynch >> I need my last minute. Mr. Cohen >> sorry, sir. Mr. Lynch >> That's okay. Let me just say 120002 >> I don't think my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are afraid that you're going to lie. I think they're afraid you're going to tell the truth. Mr. Cohen >> Thank you, sir. Mr. Lynch >> I yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Cummings >> Thank you very much. The gentleman from Ohio is that recognized? Mr. Jordan >> I appreciate the gentleman for yielding. I want to respond to Mr. Lynch. I want you to think about this. When have you seen a Federal agency where this has happened? James Colmey director, fired. Andy McCabe, deputy director. Fired. Lied three times under oath. Under investigation right now. As we speak 120030 >> Jim baker FBI counsel demoted and currently under investigation by the U.S. Attorney's office in Connecticut. Lisa Page demoted and then left and the counterintelligence, demoted and then fired. That's what happened. That's what we're concerned about and today we actually asked for Rod Rosenstein, oh, by the way, we now know three people have told us rod Rosenstein actually was contemplating using the 25th amendment to remove the guy from Presidency who the American people put there, and we asked for him to be a witness today and the chairman said no 120102 >> and instead we get 30 minutes from a guy who is going to prison -- going to prison in two months for lying to congress. Mr. Cohen, I've got two quick questions before I yield back to my colleague. Mr. Hice asked you who all you talked to. You spoke to Mr. Schiff and obviously you spoke to Mr. Cummings. You're going in front of both committees. And you are here today and you will be in front of Mr. Schiff's committee tomorrow. Have you spoken to chairman Nadler or anyone on his staff or have your attorneys spoken to Chairman. Nadler. Mr. Cohen >> I don't know about my attorneys 120130 >> I have not spoken to congressman Nadler and I am not -- sir, I am not aware if my attorneys. I can ask them. Mr. Jordan >> You can turn around and ask them. Mr. Cohen >> The answer, sir, is no. Mr. Jordan >> Okay. And you said at this present time Mr. Davis is not getting paid. Are you anticipating him receiving some kind of compensation in the future? Mr. Cohen >> When I start to earn a living. Mr. Jordan >> He's going to wait three years? Wow! Mr. Cohen >> The answer is yes. 120200 Mr. Jordan >> Wow! that's a first. I've never known a lawyer to wait three years to get paid. Mr. Cohen >> I guess he thinks it's important. Mr. Jordan >> All right. With that I yield to the gentleman from Arizona. Mr. Gosar >> Well thank you. Mr. Cohen, you know, you are a disgraced lawyer. I mean you've been disbarred. I'm sure you remember, maybe you don't remember, duty of loyalty, duty of confidentiality, attorney-client privilege. I think the gentleman over your right side actually understands that very, very well and wouldn't do what you are doing here today. 120231 >> So let's go back at this credibility. You want us to make sure that we think of you as a real philanthropic icon, that you're about justice that you're the person that someone would call at 3:00 in the morning. No, they wouldn't. Not at all. We saw Mr. Cohen dissect you. Right in front of this committee you conflicted your testimony, sir. You're a pathological liar. You don't know truth from falsehood. 120300 Mr. Cohen >> Sir, I'm sorry. Are you referring to me or the president? Mr. Gospar >> Hey, this is my time. Mr. Cohen >> Are you referring to me, sir or the president? Mr. Gospar >> When I ask a question I'll ask for an answer. Mr. Cohen >> Sure. Mr. Gospar >> Are you familiar with Rule 35 of the federal rules of criminal procedures? Mr. Cohen >> I am now. Mr. Gospar >> Oh! So you understand that you've been in contact with the southern district of New York, is that true? Mr. Cohen >> I am in constant contact with the southern district of New York regarding ongoing investigations. Mr. Gospar >> And part of that application is to reduce sentencing time, is it not? 120333 Mr. Cohen >> There is a possibility -- Mr. Gospar >> Yes. The answer is yes. Mr. Cohen >> No it's not, sir. Mr. Gospar >> Yes it is. So testimony here can actually help you out in getting your sentence lessened, isn't that true? Mr. Cohen >> I'm not really sure how my appearance here today is providing substantial information that the southern district can use for the creation of a case. Now, if there is something that this group can do for me I would gladly welcome it. 120359 Mr. Gospar >> Well, I've got to tell you. America's watching you. I've been getting texts right and left and say how can anyone listen to this pathological person. He's got a problem. He doesn't know fact from fiction and that's what's sad here. You didn't do this for Donald Trump to protect Donald Trump. You did it for you. This is all about you. This is all about this Twitter feed and let me re-run those. Another one. Women who love and support Michael Cohen, strong, 120430 >> pitbull, sex symbol, no nonsense. Business oriented and ready to make a difference. Mr. Cohen >> 1,000 followers? Mr. Gospar >> Ready to make a difference against the law? That's pretty sad. Over and over again, we wanted to have trust. It's built on the premise that we're truthful that we come forward, but there's no truth with you whatsoever and that's why that's important to you to look up here and look at the old adage that our moms taught us, liar, liar, pants on fire. No one shou ld ever listen to you and give you credibility. 120502 >> It's sad. It's sad that we have come. In fact, I want to quote the chairman's very words. This is a real -- hold on. Mr. Cummings The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Gospar >> A sad day. Mr. Cooper >> Mr. Cohen, several times in your testimony you state the bad things that you did for Mr. Trump 120533 >> and at some point you apparently changed your course of action as a recurring refrain in your testimony that says, and yet I continued to work for him, but at some point you changed. What was the breaking point at which you decided to start telling the truth? Mr. Cohen >> There are several factors. Helsinki, Charlottesville, 120602 >> watching the daily destruction of our civility to one another, putting up silly things like this. >> That's silly. Mr. Cohen >> Really unbecoming of congress. It's that sort of behavior that I'm responsible for. I'm responsible for your silliness because I did the same thing that you're doing now for ten years. I protected Mr. Trump 120631 >> for ten years and the fact that you pull up a news article that has no value to it and you want to use that as the premise for discrediting me, that I'm not the person that people called at 3:00 in the morning would make you inaccurate. In actuality, it would make you a liar which puts you into the same position that I am in, and I can only warn people the more people that follow Mr. Trump as I did blindly are going to suffer the same consequences that I'm suffering. 120704 Mr. Cooper >> What warning would you give young people who are tempted as you were, would you encourage them not to wait ten years to see the light? What advice would you give young people, in particular young lawyers, so they do not abuse their bar license as you did. Mr. Cohen >> Look at what's happened to me? I had a wonderful life. I have a beautiful wife. I have two amazing children. I -- I achieved financial success 120732 >> by the age of 39. I didn't go to work for Mr. Trump because I had to. I went to work for him because I wanted to, and I've lost it all. So if I'm not a picture-perfect -- that's the picture that should be up there. If I'm not a picture-perfect example of what not to do that's the example that I'm trying to set for my children. You make mistakes in life and I've owned them and I've taken responsibility for them, and I'm 120800 >> paying a huge price as is my family. So if that in and of itself isn't enough to dissuade somebody from acting in the callous manner that I did I'm not sure that person has any chance very much like I'm in right now. Mr. Cooper >> A recurring theme in your testimony is concern for your family's safety. What, specifically, are you most concerned about? Mr. Cohen >> Well, the president, unlike my Cohen for Trump that has 1,000 followers, 120830 >> he's got over 60 million people and when Mr. Trump turned around early in the campaign and said I can shoot somebody on fifth avenue and get away with it, I want to be very clear. He's not joking. He's telling you the truth. You don't know him. I do. I've sat next to this man for ten years, and I watched his back. I'm the one who started the campaign, and I'm the one who continued in 2015 to promote him. 120900 >> There were so many things I thought that he can do that are great and he can and is doing things that are great, but this destruction of our civility to one another is out of control and when he goes on Twitter and he starts bringing in my in-laws, my parents, my wife, what does he think is going to happen? He's causing -- he's sending out the same message that he can do whatever he wants. This is his country. He's becoming an autocrat and hopefully something bad will happen to me or my children or my wife 120932 >> so that I will not be here and testify. That's what his hope was, was to intimidate me, and again, I thanked everybody who joined and said that this is just not right. Mr. Cooper >> Have you ever seen Mr. Trump personally threaten people with physical harm? Mr. Cohen >> No. He would use others. Mr. Cooper >> He would hire other people to do that? Mr. Cohen >> I'm not so that he had to hire them. They were already working there. Everybody's job at the Trump organization is to protect Mr. Trump. 121007 >> Every day most of us knew we were coming in and we were going to lie for him on something, and that became the norm and that's exactly what's happening right now in this country and it's exactly what's happening here in government, sir. Mr. Cooper >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time has expired. Mr. Cummings >> Mr. Armstrong? Mr. Armstrong >> Thank you. 121030 Mr. Cohen >> Mr. Chairman, can we take a break? Mr. Cummings >> Not right now. Mr. Cohen >> Okay. >> All right. [ Inaudible ] Mr. Cohen >> I did, sir. Mr. Cohen >> That's okay. Thank you, sir. [ Inaudible ] Thank you. RECESS 121101