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CORE 3943 AHMAUD ARBERY MURDER TRIAL BRUNSWICK GA SWITCHED FEED POOL 11122021 150000 [09:03:00] Members this with. Good morning, everybody. Got all the things president represented by counsel and we are ready with states, witnesses, anything from the state forward to get on with state's witnesses who was told to be here at eight thirty is not familiar. We're sending our investigator out, but did in. So hopefully it will not be an issue. And he's just running late. And that's what I'm going to go with right now. I'm not going to assume the worst. So I just want the court to be aware, however, that now they go ahead and call Surace as opposed to calling this other witness who was not here so fast. And so we are ready to proceed with a witness, with a witness. Yes. It's a so. [09:04:03][62.2] [09:04:02] 090328 COUNSEL>> Your honor, Iâ?Tve been asked to address some comments the other day. The court hasn't asked me to do that. JUDGE>> (inaud.) -- whatever you've been asked to do has not been asked by the court. 090343 COUNSEL GOUGH>> Very well. I will let the court know that if my statements yesterday were overly broad, I will follow up with a more specific motion on Monday putting that -- that those concerns in the proper context. And my apologies to anyone who might have inadvertently been offended. [09:03:59] All right. Got series first witness. Yes. Yeah, I'm sorry. I was thinking three things. I was to get the panel's for one second. [09:05:12][69.6] [09:05:12] We've got to bring the panel with one. All right. [09:06:22][70.3] [09:06:22] The jury said good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Hopefully, everybody had a good night's sleep. We are ready to proceed with the evidence in this case. From the state. Thank you. The state call Officer Robert Sawtell truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I could have seen I please state your name and spell it for the court reporter Robert RATCH. That's Robert Caro, VRT. Gresh, ORATE, S.H.. All right. [09:08:08][105.9] [09:08:08] How are you currently employed with the Glynn County Sheriff's Department in Brunswick, Georgia? OK, how long have you been with the Glynn County Police Department? I first started in May of 2011. I left in 2016 for a year and came back in February of 2017. I tell the jury a little bit about your training and experience as a certified law enforcement officer. I attended the Georgia Post Academy in Savannah, the regional academy in Savannah. I got my basic these officers certificate from their. Since then I have taken several different classes beyond advanced classes and stuff. Right. [09:08:52][44.3] [09:08:52] And what are your current job duties? Responsibilities with the Glynn County Police Department? I'm a master patrol officer. Three, patrol the county area and assigned area of the county. I am primarily assigned to Baker nine. That is the area that I patrol on a daily basis and I answer calls for service and out there, traffic enforcement, anything that I see while I'm out on normal patrol. All right. So how long have you been assigned to Baker? Nine as a master patrol? I've been riding that area for probably five or six years. I can swap around. [09:09:34][42.2] [09:09:34] I have occasionally been swapped to other areas, but primarily back. The mine is where I run right now. You're in a suit today. How are you normally dressed when you are patrolling Baker nine or other areas? Normally at this time of our current uniform is green pants with a black polo shirt and I have an outer load bearing vest, black in color. That's my body armor and it carries some of my equipment. And we say some of your equipment is that body cam. [09:10:04][30.2] [09:10:04] That is my body camera. That is my taser, my handcuffs, tourniquets and various items that is carried on that vest to relieve the weight off of the belt. And what kind of car you drive? I drive a twenty eighteen Dodge Charger police car. How is it marked? It is marked with logos representing the Green County Police Department. Easy to read and identify. Yes, ma'am. All right. So now what kind of shifts are you working when you're working? Baker needs patrol person at this point in time. We work 12 hour shifts, ma'am, I so my take you back to twenty nineteen into the first part of twenty twenty. What kind of shifts were you working then. I believe we were we were also working the 12 hour shifts at that time. [09:10:52][48.0] [09:10:52] We've been switched back and forth between 12 and 10000 and back to close. All right. So what are the 12 hour shifts? What are the time frames of six a.m. to six p.m. and then 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.? How many days a week would you work at that time? In twenty nineteen. We were working a schedule where we worked. It's like two days on Tuesdays, all three days on it rotated around. It was three, two, two, three, two, three, three on something to that effect. OK, so there was a schedule. Yes. All right. So it wasn't four days in a row or five days or no man. And were you the six a.m. shift or the six p.m. shift on the 25th? Oh, I'm going to. How about this? Let's go out and talk about October 20th. What was your shift that day? Okay, well, four hour shifts rotate. We work days and then two months a days, two months a night on the 25th. I was even shift that day. Our night shift, the night shift. So starting at 6:00 p.m., six p.m.. All right. So are you familiar with the Sattell offshores neighborhood? Yes, ma'am. How are you familiar with that neighborhood? I grew up down the road from that area all during high school. Our bus went through there, picked up students for school, lived out in that area, not in that particular neighborhood, in that area since 1980. And then as being a patrol officer, riding that Baker nine, which encompasses sits on the shores of patrol that area on a daily basis and situations in which county, Glynn County I. And to tell a source that neighborhood public roadways. Yes, ma'am. Right. So tell us about the neighborhood composition based on your experience. And still a in twenty nineteen. It's the first two months of twenty. What kind of population lived in cities? 091209 >> I don't have hard number, but I would be willing to bet that it's primarily older, more retired people. You see very few children out playing in the yards and in the street. [09:12:23] as being if this was your baker and did you work it from January 1st, twenty nineteen through February. Twenty twenty, yes. All right. Violent crimes out there. Any violent violent crimes? Not that I'm aware of. Of property crimes. A couple. Somebody direct your attention now to twenty nineteen had you part October 25th of twenty nineteen. No, Larry. English. No. All right. So how did you encounter Larry English. I call came in to the 911 center and I'm not sure if that came in Vietnam. On one or the direct number, but a call came in in reference to a trespasser on his property. And I was dispatched out there to that call. And after arriving out there, I asked for the number in our system, our computer system. We can access the callers and phone number. I make contact with Mr. English and asked him to send me the video at this. At that time, the quickest way was him to text me the video or by email. It took a day or two to get it and get it, be able to see it. Even if I had a viewer on my work computer there, I could see it. So I contacted Mr. English and asked him to send me text me the video so I could see what who we were looking for. All right. So you get dispatched. What's the address you get dispatched to on October 25th? Twenty nineteen to twenty to tell George and describe that location. It's a at that point time it was a house under construction, no doors, no windows of partial siding on the house that you could see through the house all the way through, looking through the front window out through the back into the the river area. OK, and when you arrived on October 25th, twenty nineteen, did you encounter anyone at the open unsecured construction site? No, ma'am, I did not. Did you meet Larry English there? No, ma'am. So how did you contact Larry English via cell phone. Right. And you gave him your cell phone number? Yes. Well, he had it when I called him. So early detection. And did he in fact, text to some video? Yes, it did. And just describe generally what that video was of. It was video of his property of I remember correctly, it was on that two outdoor cameras, one on the dark, one on the front corner of the house showing a what appeared to be a light skinned black male walking around on the property, walking around on the side. And that night, did you ever see that light skinned black male again? [09:16:23][331.0] [09:16:23] I never saw him again at and at that point in time, was there a report of anything actually taken from Mr Englishes property? No, ma'am. And when you saw that video of the young man that you saw on the video, did he have a backpack or any sort of bag with him at that time? He had nothing in his hands. And did you recognize him? No, ma'am. I did not. So I'm going to take you forward now to November 17th, a white couple on very Bush's property. Did you respond to that or did they call you that night or anything? I don't recall. If he called me that night, he sent me the video from the 17th, but I received that video on a later date, not on the 17th. Do you know if you were working the night of the 17th? I do not recall. OK, so the next night, November 18th, twenty nineteen. Were you working that evening? I believe so, yes. OK, so on that evening, was that another trespassing call to the same location? I yes, there was another caller. OK, so this is about a month later you get a call. Did you respond to that location? Yes, ma'am. OK, and that's once again the open unsecured construction site at twenty two. What did you find when he got there? Same house in the same state. No, nobody in sight. And the the unidentified black male, same one from the previous October 25th incident was nowhere to be found. Right. [09:18:19][116.1] [09:18:18] And at that point in time, did you see the unknown black male have a bag or anything with him? No, ma'am. Nothing with him. Do you see the video? Yes, ma'am. Do you see him take anything? No, ma'am. I know at this point in time, October 25th and November 7th, November 18th, you're talking to Larry English over the phone? Yes, sir. And what is it that Mr English wanted you to do? Find out who he was and why he kept coming onto the property? And if you I'm going to rephrase that. I don't want you to speculate as to what you would have done. I'm not talking about speculation. [09:18:58][39.3] [09:18:57] I had talked to Larry English about trespassing him from the property. I explained to Larry English how we how we trespass someone from the property. But that was never, never done. We never made contact with. OK, so what did you tell their English about how you trespass somebody from a property? We do. We once we make contact with the person on the property, we explain to them the homeowner find out who they are. We identify the homeowner does not want them there. He has no legal reason to be there and be the property owner. Then we put them all the way I do it is I put them on speaker. If they're not there in person, I'll put him on speaker phone and I would say, Mr English, I'm here with whoever the person is. So you're saying they have no right to be here and you don't want them here on the property? And he would say that so they can be heard and we are documented in our computer system. So if that person was ever back on the property and I explained to that person, if you ever come back on this property for any reason whatsoever uninvited, you will automatically be arrested for trespassing. OK, and you told that to Mr English that that was your standard procedure. Yes. OK, And not speculation, but was that your intent if you encountered this young black male. 091938 RASH>> Yes. To find out who he is, identify him, why he was coming up there late at night and then ultimately it's Mr English's decision if he wanted him trespassed or not. [09:19:50] After you received the video from October 29th, it I think you said you received the November 18th video. Yes. OK, did you take any action to see about finding out who this person was? And I would ride around the area working night shift. It's hard to canvass. I mean, patrol the area on a normal basis, but it's hard to go up and find people at night. But not many people are moving around in the darkness. Once I came back the day shift, I switch from Nine's today as I rode around the neighborhood, patrolled the neighborhood, I would see people out walking. Any interaction I had with anybody in the neighborhood, I would stop, say, hey, have you seen have you seen this smell? I had a screenshot from that video and I would ask people had they didn't really know who that was. There were a couple residents that I saw on. I believe it's the address to ten cities, the shores. It has a ring doorbell camera. I could see when I did not make contact. [09:21:39][162.1] [09:21:39] There are a couple of places that I actually did go up and knock on the door and talk to people, something that I have dealt with in the past and kind of knew. And but nobody nobody had recognized me. So nobody knew who he was. Nobody knew that was quite so. And I want to kind of get a sense, was this a for this a methodical door to door to door to door. OK, so this is sort of hit Miss Random hit Mrs. So I'm going to go ahead and move forward now to December 1st of twenty twenty. Did Mr English make contact through December 1st of twenty twenty. About people under a bridge. Yes he did. OK, so now is this actually on December 1st or was it December 2nd. I don't remember. [09:22:33][53.5] [09:22:33] The exact date was that he called me about the people on the bridge and I was off duty the next day when I returned to work is when I went under the bridge and checked and that's when I texted him back without looking at the transcript of what date that was I sent him. 092217 COUNSEL>> Did you find any white couple in a car under the bridge? RASH>> No signs of life. There were some four wheeler tracks under there. There's nothing typical of a homeless camp or someone living under the bridge. There was no trash, debris, anything left behind that would indicate someone was living under there. [09:22:35] So I was went back up minutes. It did their English call you directly first about this rumored couple under the bridge? He yes. He saw a car. He saw a car parked in the area. And he felt like that car was associated to a car that he saw on his camera the night that the white couple was on his property. And he asked me to go check for him. I could drop duty this day. I was off duty. Would you tell him? I told him that I would check on it when I was back on duty. I did for me that he'd already called the non-emergency Glynn County police dispatch. I don't recall that clerk. And is that when he sent you the the the video of the White couple going in with the bag? Have to look at the date on the what the video was sent to me. But it was after the second time he made contact with Larry English. Yes. All right. So moving forward to December 20th of twenty nineteen. Did you encounter Greg and Michael that day? I believe so, yes. [09:24:17][104.3] [09:24:17] OK, now, had you known Greg McMichael previously as someone who worked at the district attorney's office as an investigator? Yes. OK, so where did you encounter Greg with Michael on December twenty nineteen? He was in his front yard of this property at two thirty. So which was his daytime or nighttime? It was daytime. What happened? I pulled up to him. I was in my patrol car. I stayed seated in my patrol car. We spoke through the window. He walked over. We spoke, talked to him in reference to the the unidentified black male down at two twenty two nineteen, asking if you have two twenty two children. We talked about him continually to come onto the property, not being able to figure out who he is. I told Mr Michael that I had somewhat canvased the neighborhood to talk to different people. Nobody knew who he was. And at that time Mr Michael asked me to pass on his phone number to Mr English and that he was lives right down the road. If he had, he needed in the car and that's when I sent the text to Mr English that Greg MacMichael was a retired, the police officer and an investigator from the District Attorney's Office. All right. So it's daytime. You encounter him outside his house and you're talking about what's happening at 220. [09:25:51][94.7] [09:25:51] This one, did he have any knowledge of what was going on at 220 prior to this? Any knowledge as in as in did he tell you? I've spoken with Larry English all about why he never told the. But you're telling him, hey, I've had these two encounters. Yes. At 220 and he asked you to forward his information to Larry Englishes. Now, I'm not talking about speculation, but I'm talking about what was your intention in making contact with Michael that day? Oh, when I rode around, I saw him. So that's when I stopped. Spoke to him and you meaning what was my intention forwarding the information or how well did you deputized with Michael Mann? [09:26:45][54.0] [09:26:45] Do you give him any authority to act as a police officer? No, ma'am. All right. 092619 RASH>> My goal with that, sending that text was Greg McMichael had, to my knowledge, about thirty plus years of law enforcement experience, who else to be an expert witness, call 911, and, you know, it's -- I've watched shows. I've seen things where you have ten people witness a crime, you get ten different stories on what they -- who the person was, what they looked like, what they were wearing. 092646 Greg has training and experience. He would be, in my opinion, would be an expert witness to be on the phone with 911, he's running north, south, he's wearing this. He would know the pertinent information that the officers would need to know once they arrived on scene to possibly catch the intruder, or the trespasser. [09:27:02] She wanted him to be a witness to get this guy identified. Yes, Was Travis McMichael there at that time? No, ma'am. Did you even know Travis? All right. Moving forward to February 11th. Twenty twenty. That's when were you on duty? That particular day? Yes. When what shift were you on? I was on our night shift. I what happened within Sitel shorts that day? We get the call of a believe that originally come out as a burglary in progress and so we ran what we call code lights and sirens. We were in just getting out of briefing. So I came from the area of our police headquarters and I was the first officer on scene. And upon my arrival, Travis met Michael and Greg. Michael were on scene and I stood by, waited for additional officers to get there before we proceeded to check the property for the unidentified male that they called about being on the property. OK, so when people call nine one, they're reporting what they think is going on. Yes, ma'am. OK, so have you ever had experiences where people call up and they say they've been robbed? Yes, ma'am. And it turns out it's something completely different? Yes, ma'am. OK, so in this case, you get burglary in progress, OK? What was it when you got there? It ultimately ended being the trespassing. And when you got there was the unidentified black male present? No, ma'am. It was not. And at this time, both Michael and Travis Michael were on scene just from where they are. I cannot say for sure if they were armed. I know there was I believe I believe they told dispatch something to dispatch about having guns, but I did not physically see them openly brandishing guns. I do call them telling you that they put their guns up. [09:30:12][207.7] [09:30:12] It may have a yes and the 911 call came in from Travis McMichael. Is that right? If you don't remember, it's a don't call. Did you eventually make contact with Mr Larry English while on scene? Yes, I did. I called him on the telephone. So. And did you speak to him about what was going on? Yes, I did. I at that point in time, did he send you video of what had happened inside the house? Yes, I asked him to send me the video to see if it is the same person that has been there numerous times are the times before. And while on scene, were you able to review that particular video that Larry English sent you that very night, February 11? Twenty twenty. Yes. He sent to me while I was you to show that to you showed it to almost certain. I showed it to both Greg and Travis. I and when you saw it was a young man, did he have a bag or backpack or anything on him? No. To see him take or steal anything, no matter what their English tell you, nothing and reject to hearsay unless it's impeaching Mr English or somehow responsible for this. It's a prior statement of a witness has already testified and he's been to extensive cross-examination yesterday. And it's prior statement saying that witness is not an exception to the rule. It's either consistent statement that he's been impeached or some prior inconsistent statements, Radio one, which is hearsay. So you're not asking him to explain why you're using the statement? Because it goes toward the defendant's knowledge of what was going on, because they told it to this officer in front of the two defendants. I maybe need to ask some better questions in place of foundation. Go ahead. All right. I'll listen. Foundation, were you talking to Mr Larry English on the phone? Do you have him on speakerphone? I have him on speakerphone. And who is standing right there with you while you have him on speakerphone? The McMichaels are standing there in close proximity along with other officers. Right. And is Larry English talking to you about what he can see on his video? Yes, he is. And what did he tell you about things being stolen inside the house? Nothing had been taken. [09:32:51][159.1] [09:32:51] An object, unless you can tie what Larry was told him to one of the McMichaels or somebody else's relevant it. But the assertion from opening statements that they had all this knowledge and what they're asserting, they knew and it goes to show exactly what they didn't. Now, look, I don't mind if if she can show the McMichaels heard it's on video. We have the video. But for this witness to testify, what he said with Larry English and somehow he knows what they heard, I think would be improper. So were you wearing your body cam search? If I was all right, you had the opportunity to review your body cam video prior to coming in to testify today. Yes, I have. All right. And was it fair and accurate? Yes, ma'am. Anything and added or deleted? [09:33:48][57.5] [09:33:48] None. That I'm aware of, no. OK, and in addition, did you have the opportunity to review the transcript from your body cam video? Yes, ma'am. And was it fair and accurate that you saw this film? All right, Your Honor, at this time, the state will enter into Evidence State's Exhibit 231, which is the body cam video, and two thirty one, which is the transcript of the body video. Objection, objection, objection. DROWNER At this time, we are going to publish State's Exhibit 231 and we have copies of the transcripts for the jurors. I did not want to give a similar admonition for myself. We usually try to say so. Yes, Finally, gentlemen, as with yesterday, we're going to provide you with transcripts. I gave you this, the charge yesterday on how those transcripts are to be used. The evidence in the case is the body cam footage itself. The transcript is simply being used to age you, as we explained yesterday. And we're going to collect these transcripts at the end. Please do not read ahead. Thank you. John. Field Officer Astaire's state's exhibit 231. All right. So unsuppressed. Take a look at your screen right there. You can see that. Oh, is this your body cam video? Yes. All right. So first, off, I'm going to ask you at the top, I don't know if you can explain to the jury how it says to twelve, twenty, twenty and the time looks like it's thirty four minutes after midnight. Do you know why that is that time and date as opposed to to eleven, you know, about seven hours earlier or five hours earlier. And I'm in London. OK, right. So when we first see this, do you know who this person is. I know, I know him as you presently with this. I would say I was in fleshlight. The state will the same publish the exhibit state's exhibit 231 donors house is called the Skull Video. I don't know about that. Yeah, he's called himself as president. [09:37:47][239.3] [09:37:47] Called me tonight. Yeah. Oh, they. Mediawatch And they said unless he jumped the fence and went over somewhere, they don't know if he's but he hasn't went on the road. So we just need to check everything. [09:38:41][53.5] [09:38:41] The county police, anybody here, clear here, they take they have no, it's just a party. They don't have it. There's a ladder here. But the access at Adiba, well, there's a ladder right here. We can stand up, but they don't have the attic right. Right here. Now, go. Going to stay room, maybe down on the dog in the boat or so we got up here. [09:41:00][139.5] [09:41:00] You already checked the door on this camper. You so he's got cameras out here and takthe guys called him on before out here messing around on the boat stuff. Fridge with Mogren and they got the in or out. They're trying to see if they can find it. So the missing person is the guy put him in the boat, flipped over on the river. Who for this? So this guy's got these cameras that he lives Douglas or somewhere, and he's always calling me, takes me video of the guy wandering through the house. Well, the night the neighbor come by and saw the flashlight, somebody in here. So. Oh, yeah, man, that's good quality stuff, too. He sends me the video of it. We don't see him back there unless he jumped the fence this way or to Travis. Just walk down there. He's going to our backyard. Back this way. OK, or by the way, I think all our guys are Wolfen. [09:43:39][159.2] [09:43:39] But he said he had nothing to say, no red shorts and a white shirt. So I wonder if it's the same guy he's got to sleep. So he Travis actually. So, yeah, he turned around right here, put the lights on him. You say that he likes it. He called inside the house. So, yeah. Before that, you know, I can let you out if your what did you do. You have a camera in your window, right? Yes. Have you got inside. Don't look through the glass. Oh, I don't have any news out here after dark. Oh good evening. I'm late. What are the rest of me to look at? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. OK, like I got this whole place up by daylight. Yeah, I'm obbligato. I'm a call Mr. English and get him to look back at his cameras and. Yeah, because he's got the opportunity. [09:44:28][48.6] [09:44:27] You this guy, he's always on foot. Nobody in the neighborhood knows who he is that we can have dinner. I've been about every house, door to door trying to be. He's been on their video. They have video over here. We've called him over this guy right there. He's got the idea. We've called him on several video cameras, but we just can't find where he's in. He usually goes this way on our way straight down that road, go right here. If he goes down that route, yeah, I'll get changed. OK, you can see, because that's usually the way he goes. OK, look at that. Neighborhood report. We call the owner to the access cameras at hotel was I now he's got. Yeah. The son saw him put the lie. He rigged it round and the guy ran inside. This is a mess. And the door down there, this is video from before they called him inside. So he's got kind of a twist here. If it's the same guy in his sleep, he's lighter skinned and he got sleep. He's so mysterious and the shirt on. So that's what they said he did. But he came with Travis, got down there. He ran in the house and told me and I ran out front. He was looking for a flashlight, that kind of shit as I was watching down here. Oh, damn. I see you to come across the street. He given back yards that or else he went with Travis, turned around. He could have come from behind him. The see he was behind me. No, no. This guy we we've I've tried and tried. I'm in door to door. Nobody knows him. Mr. Inglis. How are you doing, officer. Good. How are you doing sir. I guess you see a man hanging in there. I'm sorry if it's about moments in the video. I don't know. I was able to get it. OK, you sent it to me. I sent it to Diego, but I will send it to you. I didn't know if he was the one over there, but I'll send it to you, not to me. I'm on duty tonight and we. Well, there's five or six of us here, along with the neighbors, and we haven't seen it. We've searched everything. So thinking of nothing. Travis here said he went out, went and run into the house. So he went back. He's jumped the fence somewhere, went right or left. But we looked all over the dog and in the camper, under the camper, around the camper, we looked all up in the rafters and everything even got on the ladder, looked up there to see if he was on top with the air handler in and out of there. No signs of him here. They're they're canvasing the neighborhood right now, trying to find him. So we're actively looking in. [09:48:01][214.2] [09:48:01] Your neighbor across the street's going to look at his camera because he says his camera looks at whatever this road is, Jones Road. He's got a camera that looks at Jones Road. He's going to look at it and see if you see where he went that way. But as of now, that's what I was going to say to you. Assuming what video you have, does it look like it's the same guys always have. We've been talking to nobody until I lost their ability to try to connect. So does your camera does it look like the same guys always. Hello, Hello, sir. It's OK. Does it look like the same guys always say something like the guy Mr. MacMichael lives down the road, the retired law enforcement officer and the D.A. investigator his son saw him and said, you know, the black male had on red shorts or whatever. I had to go back out and get exactly what he had on. But he saw him and turned in the yard, put the headlights on him, and he run into how he saw him run through the house. So we just don't know who he is. But, you know. All right. All right. Thanks. He's saying it's the same guy. He's got the video. He sent it another officer. He didn't know who was on duty this first time. I've seen him in here, but we don't get anything. We from that. This is a this is video here and it is being built or that one. No, this is the video link. It's from one of the prior sinked. If this thing gets sleeve tattoos. He was wearing a red shirt, white pants. I didn't see his face, but he's got like twisty hair. Yeah, there's no national dress. Maybe my dreads or twist, whatever they call it. Yeah, I'll watch dance, you know, but that's just that's what it is. It's the same guy. I don't know where to crappies come from. He was coming, he's coming down this road straight up. Go with those results coming up. [09:50:28][147.7] [09:50:28] Seventeen going girls from that neighborhood. It's really up to people. Well, I mean, I've been up there, you know, down here to Corner Jones and so would you have the family there to have the baby adopted? Right. And all the foster kids? Yeah, I went and talked to them. They got one that kind of matches it. Besom the mayor, mayor. He's got something wrong with it. As a matter of fact, he just had a kidney transplant, but he just kind of show. Yeah. The old black lady right at the corner. Yeah. 095027 >>And then when you turn on Zelwood(?) down there, the house has got a dumpster out by the driveway. >>Yup, yup. >>There's some blacks right in there. >> Is that right? >>As a matter of fact, I don't -- come to think of it, I kept forgetting about them, they have some kids that age that hang around that house. 095046 Well, I've been there for an actual, a report of a alleged assault or whatever. And it's the kids they have are only females. Now, I don't know if it's one of them's boyfriend. They only have daughters there, so it could be unless somebodyâ?Ts moved in with them or whatever. 095101 But, yeah, nobody seems to know who this kid is, where he's coming from. But like, he's always -- and all the times on the video that Mr. English has sent me, sent me one now, it's always been just in there, plundered around. He hasn't seen him actually take anything. I said, so, you know, trespassing. [09:51:19] Yeah. Yeah. At least ordering a prowler I had reported stolen on the first run down the route. Now, we did have them. I took a report down the road here to a house on the corner. The guy where the juvenile is, he had some stuff stolen, some guns stolen. But we got on video the card and people that come in and stole them, they were from another neighborhood. Yeah, I know some good. Well, I'm saying. Do you need. I just called but you got go in the river tonight, sir. This is facing on the roof. Yes. Yes. Thank you. There he is. Yeah. [09:52:41][73.0] [09:52:41] It's on my black black boy. Kind of a lighter skinned black boy. The Wal-Mart girl says he's got like twist or dreads three, four inches long. Sleeve tattoos on his arms. You down or your nose right here? I can drive by. So I walk across the yard, you know, and I could do when I pulled around, although its original pockets first of all, I got I have got say, you know, either way, back the hell out anyway, you know, if I were had it, I would sit right here, Callejo, you know, I had to run back and give them a phone. So who knows where he went after that? Somebody will cross to my girlfriend there at some monitor down there, but I haven't seen her. She's right on the street. That's probably about I'm a back. OK, it's Friday around that van or just parked on the side. You. Yeah, good. Appreciate you all being here, man. So I've been lucky. Doc told me a couple weeks ago. About the week. Yeah, the house. Yeah. The house of the owner. Right, right. Yeah. [09:54:20][99.9] [09:54:20] I'll tell you, those might have been more needed for the Jones room. I'd come home early yesterday. We're going to have to sit and talk to anybody in the room and another call come up. I guarantee you that you've done rough streets and they they'll go down there and take pictures. They got all the way. We busted a house. Always play. We got Rob had a guy soon. He had a guy living with him. We got him on some outstanding warrants and he was got a bunch of dope out of it. But, you know, around here, what's the guy, Jean? You don't check. Yeah. Lives around there. You know where he lives. He's got a great story with one big crowd and she gets it all well for Baktash intangibly, which is genes, I guess Hestenes girlfriend's cute or something. Yeah. Girlfriend, I don't know if that's Gene's wife or girlfriend, but Herkie kid at this point, was forty eight point forty seven. No, no, this is you can stop. That's fine. But there's no agreement. You can do whatever you want with. Oh I'm sorry. I'm fine with you stopping it. OK, I mean the defense is fine with the state stopping this at eighteen, 14 seconds. All right. At this point, has Greg McMichael left? He's one policeman. All right. And the remainder of this is all I'll just characterize it as chatting and talking with the neighbors. It's OK. Who's Rodway? Strub Away was a resident that lived around and that would drive do not call them the numerics a few weeks earlier. I don't know the exact date or time I assisted the U.S. Marshals and serving a warm over there. Mr. Wadelived on the water and he had a, I guess what you call a roommate, someone who was renting a room from him. [09:56:18][117.6] [09:56:17] And the U.S. Marshals had warrants on that individual. And at the time of them serving that ward, they located some drugs on the property within the room of the individual that they arrested. Right. And was Mr. Robb way and potentially his roommate person or I think a potential suspect in what was going on in Satilla shores? No, ma'am. OK, why not? The did not fit the description. All right. And you mean the description of the the black male with the short dreads and the sleeve tattoos got out. But I guess I have some really, really bad question. Broadways white guy. Right, white guy. OK, so he's not going to match their English's description? No, ma'am, not at all. But I'm asking you, was he a suspect in any of the other theft property crimes that were going on within city shores? Not to my knowledge. All right. So I want to go back and ask you some questions about what we saw on the video. Did you ever interview Diego Perez out here? No, ma'am. Right. And at the beginning, when you and another officer were out by the docks, I think they were talking about a missing person and a motorcycle hit a guardrail and a bike. So, yes, that was Officer Smith. And he come up and he also works part time at a Darian Police Department that the area police department and he monitors their radio. So he was telling me about something that Mackintosh had been in a high speed chase with the motorcycle. The guy crashed and hit the side of the bridge and the bike and the guy both flipped over into the river. Didn't have anything to do with this? No, nothing related to this. Right. And I think you used the word blundering around in there. What do you mean by that? Just looking around. I know growing up, my grandma used to say quit clowning around in my kitchen, you know, and they're looking for something plundering as in pilfering, looking open and just being nosy. 095815 COUNSEL>> And you recall Greg McMichael telling you that Travis was now armed? RASH>> Yes. [09:58:25] All right. You indicated I think we've caught him on several video cameras, but we just can't find where he's he usually goes this way straight down that road. So what did you mean by that? A couple of times Mr. Aengus said that when he leaves the property, it looks like he runs down John's road, which is not directly across the street, but off to the right. If you're standing with your back to Mr. Englishes house and be off to your right a little bit, John's Road runs straight down and it appears from the camera that's the direction he would run. So when he leaves the property, he would take off running. Yes. According to Mr. and Mrs.. 095931 COUNSEL>> I just want to make sure that from what you can understand, Travis McMichael didn't have his cell phone on him at the time he saw Mr. Arbery in the yard, he also did not have a weapon on him. RASH>> No, maâ?Tam. COUNSEL>> So he left and went down to his house -- RASH>> Yes, maâ?Tam. COUNSEL>> -- and that's when he got his dad -- RASH>> Yes, maâ?Tam. COUNSEL>> -- and his gun. RASH>> Yes, maâ?Tam. 095949 COUNSEL>> Ok. And then, of course, the two of them came back. RASH>> Yes, maâ?Tam. [09:59:57] Mr. Now, when you all are talking about. So he went out the back, he jumped the fence somewhere, went right or left. Was that actually you saw him do that or was that suspect asked for page number? If your response on page nine lines two, three and four, that this I'm sorry for the fence post. Thank you. So when you were out there saying so, he went out back, he jumped the fence and went right up. Did you see? No, Is that speculation? No. Travis said that he did not see him come back out, that he ran through the house. So if he didn't come out the front, he had to go out the back. So gotcha. [10:01:45][327.5] [10:01:44] All right. So I'm going to go ahead and show you what's been marked and already admitted as state's exhibit 117. What do we got here from eleven twenty twenty five. Back it up. Once you take a look at this, what do we have here? This open walls. And that's the bleep. I can't remember if that's a window. There are open garage door there. OK, so looking out here, when I asked to see headlights from that's what we have here, headlights from a vehicle and they're turning which way appear to be coming off the Jones Road and turning left. And would that be towards McMichael House. Yes, ma'am. And then what do we have here? The man now identified as Mr. Arbrey walking in, is he running through the house? No, ma'am. This is the only video that was sent to that night. I do believe so. So English never sent you any video showing how Mr. Arbery actually left the location? I do not recall any motive. [10:04:01][137.0] [10:04:01] In addition to the. So while you were standing and talking about Mr. English, Mr. Gregory McMichael Entraps would like. We're both standing there. Yes, ma'am. And you indicated that Mr. English has sent me. He's sending me one now. It's always been just in their blundering around. He hasn't seen him actually take anything. Do you remember on page fourteen and we're looking at lines three, four, five and six saurus. 100426 COUNSEL>> He hasn't actually seen him take anything. You say this to Greg and Travis McMichael. RASH>> Yes, maâ?Tam. COUNSEL>> And what does Greg McMichael say? RASH>> His response was, it's criminal trespassing. 100437 COUNSEL>> And what do you say? RASH>> Yeah. Yeah, very least. [10:04:43] Or so. I don't know whether there's a lot of dots there. I mean, this morning I also mentioned possibly loitering and prowling. Now with regard to December 7th of twenty twenty, OK, I can keep looking at that page. Did you respond to an entering auto attorney and Bubba Herndon's. Yes. Yes, ma'am. OK, and so the next thing, when you talk about the house, the corner, the guy where the jeep, all that is that location. Yes, ma'am. OK, and did you respond December 7th to an entry or was it December seventh or eighth? I think that I respond on the 8th and it happened on the 7th. We'll go. This is in that time. In that time. OK, so let's go ahead and say it happened on 7th. We got your call in the eight. Did you respond? Yes, ma'am. Do you talk to both the Herndon's all right. And did they have some video from the father house? Yes, ma'am. They just. And did you watch that video? Yes, ma'am. And what was the person who went into their jeep and stole their guns? White, black, Hispanic or Asian? Appeared to be based on the video they provided. It was grainy, appear to be a white male. And was that image of a white male then posted to Facebook? I believe they misheard. Or Mr. or Mrs. Hernon once posted it to Facebook and after that, December 8th, entering auto, did you respond to the next hearing on January 1st? Twenty twenty at Travis McMichaels House in about. So do you have any idea when Larry English says he's been captured on video at other places, whether they're talking about heard Herndon's posting on Facebook or something else? The object speculation, unless you give me a better foundation, this option of what we may Herndon's talking about or anybody else is talking about, unless is a foundation for just refrozen. Do you have any idea did their English tell you that he had seen Rene Herndon's posting on Facebook? I don't recall him saying seen that specific posting was so high and I believe in your police report that's related to February 11th. Twenty twenty. I think you indicated that Mr. English had posted these videos to social media talking as I canvased the neighborhood, talking to people. People would say, I've seen video, I've seen stuff on Facebook about it. My understanding was that the videos were posted, but obviously I don't I don't know that they I'm yes, I'm learning now that they were not. So they must have seen the the video I have. Objection This is all lot of speculation, but they can testify to what he understands was posted, but things may have happened to what he learned now or from talking about, OK, at the time you have to report on February 11. Twenty twenty. Did you believe what you put in your report, that these videos, what we just saw had been posted on Facebook from I believe for that time. Yes. That they have been posted and you are a member of that Facebook group, right? Yes. All right. You guys, did you check to see if they were posted to see if people were posting comments and had knowledge? No, ma'am. I'm a member of that group, but I do not follow that group on a daily basis. Gotcha. All right. And so you don't have any idea what it was that anybody had seen on Facebook? No, ma'am, I do not tell you what has been marked as state's exhibit 327. However, I'm only going to show you pages three twenty seven eight three twenty seven beats. All right. So take a look at three. Twenty seven and three twenty seven. B, see if you're able to recognize those images. Those are the images from Rene Herndon. And those are let's see at the top there. That's from Facebook. All this time, the state retender into evidence states three twenty seven, eight and objection is a no man. Look at no objection, Michelle. No says exhibit three. Twenty three twenty seven a is this a still shot from the video you saw when you responded to the Herndon's on December? Twenty twenty feet is and is this also still shot from that video showing the car that was involved? [10:12:01][424.0] [10:12:01] Yes, So I want to be clear, when you put your report on February 11 twenty, that very English had you believe, Larry, which had posted to social media, did you ever verify that he'd actually done that? No, ma'am, I did. All right. Do you even have access to next door? No, ma'am, I do not. And you're directing your attention to February 23. Twenty twenty. Were you at work that day? No, ma'am, I was. Not only did you have anything to do with the investigation, to the death of a man, Aubrey? No, ma'am, I do not. And one last thing. Have you been named personally in a civil lawsuit in relationship to this case? I have. All right. Has that in any way impacted your testimony today? The amendment has gone. And direct your attention to May 19th. Twenty twenty. Did you actually speak with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation? That day in relationship to this case? Yes. And that was prior to any lawsuit? [10:13:39][97.8] [10:13:39] Yes, ma'am. At this time, you're gonna go ahead and pass the witness. Maybe a good time, so get set up. All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's go ahead and take a fifteen minute recess. We'll continue with the evidence in this case at ten thirty again to discuss this case yourselves during the break. Rosler, you're well, officer, you can go ahead and take a step down. If I could have you here are back here just before ten thirty. And I remind you during a break you're under oath. Do not discuss your testimony with anybody. [10:14:49][69.4] [10:14:49] Thank you. We recess tender. Thank you [10:14:49][0.0] [10:32:04] We are back on defense present represented by counsel. I was just heading off to this room and. You ready to go. Yes, sir. If you could just come forward. We've got the witness back. Officer Usher, you're under oath, so let's go get your all rights reserved. Juror number five. All right. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Excuse me. We are ready to proceed with the evidence in the case. Mr. Good morning, Officer F. Serratia. I want to go back through your direct examination and some of the things you've described for the jury you talked about initially kind of said the shores as a neighborhood. If would you agree with me that still a is a nice middle class, scenic neighborhood on the little stilla river? It's and you described the folks who live there is primarily elderly, right? Yes. There are some people who have kids. It's a play outside. The adults walk the streets playing work in their yard and enjoy the river. Yes, sir. You've been patrolling that neighborhood for how long? Seven, eight years, maybe. OK, and you've gotten to know quite a few of the residents through your work, for instance, canvasing the neighborhood. Yes. You may not know them all by name, but you recognize faces. Yes. Right. And you've also gotten a chance because you're a member of the neighborhood. Facebook page to review some of the posts, some of the times on the page. Yes. And this Facebook page is actually a pretty good tool for you, isn't it? It can be, yes, because people on Facebook will post about crime in the neighborhood. Yes. They'll post about their fears about crime in the neighborhood. Yes. They'll post about their suspicions about crimes in the neighborhood. Yes. And how often would you say you review the Facebook page and photo shoots? Only when I knew that there was something going on, if I knew there was an incident today, then I would go today or tomorrow, start looking to see what people would post. OK, so we're talking about today, this time period between October, twenty fifth, twenty nineteen in February. Twenty third, twenty twenty during that time period, approximate for the approximate for the jury. How many times you looked at the Facebook page to see if this black male was seen, the one seen earlier. English's house was seen by other neighbors or talked about by neighbors in the neighborhood. I don't believe I could put a number on it. More than five. More than five, yes. OK, and in reviewing the Facebook page, did you learn about other crimes not committed by or suspected by the black male in the English house, but by other people who were missing lawnmowers and suspecting other intruders and things like that? No, I did not. OK, are you saying there were no other posts? You just don't recall them? I don't recall any other. OK, you would you're not saying they weren't caused by people like Brandon Gregory's father in law? You're not saying I'm the person you said you. Well, hearsay and the Facebook post serve nobody here to testify to those Facebook posts and putting it out there that, well, I've seen this and that at this point, the Facebook posts are hearsay is what any of this evidence which is of a named person have posted. So I'll rephrase, rephrase. Are you aware of posts by other people in Sattell, a source about crimes or suspected crimes in the neighborhood? I don't recall any specific. OK, in Seattle Shore's lives, one of your your peers, Sergeant Brandon Graycar. Yes. Know Sergeant Gregory. I know sort of. You know, Sergeant Gregory's father in law. I do not know his father well in canvasing the neighborhood. Did you ever speak to Sergeant Gregory, Sergeant Gregory? Yes. OK, and he gave you some information about his suspicions about the black male who was entering Larry Inglis's house? Yes, it is. In fact, we didn't see it, I don't think, on the video of February 11th. But he shows up on scene February 11th. Tells me he does. Yes. And he provides you with information about a black male that he suspects is committing crimes in the neighborhood. Yes. Did you follow up on that in any way? I did. And turned out the elderly couple at the house where he saw them, elderly, black, male and female that live there. And neither one of them, I spoke to the male. The female was in the residence, but she was out of sight. They claimed they did not have any kids, any grandkids, and they did not he did not. The male who answered the door did not recognize the male on the picture. The picture that you were showing, I was showing. And that picture, to be clear, was a still of the October 25th. Yes, it was. And that's the one that you used throughout. Yes. OK, well, let's go back then to let's go back to then what you knew about crime in the neighborhood. During this time period. You were aware that Travis MacMichael was a victim of a theft, correct? Yes. You are aware that Ronnie Olsen was a victim of a theft. Ronnie Olsen, a man who lived across the street. We see him saying, I can light that. I know that running and is but I don't recall. I don't recall any crime in his place. OK, were you aware that Diego Perez was a victim of that? I was not aware of Diego Prezzie. OK, so the only one you're aware of then is just in that little part of the neighborhood is Travis MacMichael. And Larry, that and I would say the Herndon residence, it's that general area of the neighborhood down and that's down Jones Road on Jones Road itself is live on that, not on Jones. I live on satellite drive, the same as corner of citizens. That would be the same as where Mr. Inglis's property is further up towards Highway Seventeen. Yes, sir. Towards the entrance. OK, so let's go back then to to the beginning, which is October 25th. Twenty nineteen. Yes sir. There's a call from Larry English to Glynn County Police and you get dispatched. Yes. And you get dispatched with other police officers as well, correct. Yes. An officer and I may pronounce it wrong. Forget this. But for guidance. For guidance and an officer. This Officer Dickson. Yes. OK. And if you don't recall, I can show you these to refresh your memory. You go out there, the property that you're you're going to this is your first time on the property. First time. Yes, it's ten o'clock at night. Yes, it's dark. Yes. You go on to this this construction site, but it's a house under construction. And tell the jury what you did when you arrived on scene. I went out going out to my camera. I arrived on scene and walked through check the property for the individual that was called upon. And you knew from the video this you this is a clip. And I'm looking at state's exhibit 121. Yes, you do. From looking at this photograph that you knew from looking at this clip that, um, that led. Well, this is a clip. Yes. And what you knew about the incident, he's complaining about it. There's a black male on his dock at ten o'clock at night. Yes. A guy who has no authority to be there. Yes and no. Legitimate reason that you know, of to be there. Second, and so to describe that Mr. Inglis is thundering around this house and that's where you've used in your dress image. You review the video and you review it when you got on scene or before you got on scene afterwards, after I had him send it to me afterwards. OK, when you get on scene, the house is dark. Now, you described the black male as a light skinned black male, but you understand that the color of his skin depends on the camera that's taking the picture. I'm not all into the technology of infrared based on what I see there. That looks like a light skinned black male, what his natural skin looks like in daylight hours. I have no knowledge of that until video at a later time on February twenty third, February 2013. You've looked that video. Yes. OK, so the males there on screen, I mean, in your video clip that you get out there on scene without the clip and you go to the dark. Yes. You have your flashlight. Yes. You have your revolver. Yes. Sit out. I don't believe it's out at that time because no one's described anybody being armed at that point. It's OK. Go through the house. Yes, with the flashlight. Because without that flashlight, it is pitch black. Yes. OK, look around. You don't see anything of note right there. So you don't see anybody of note, OK? And you leave me file a police report. Right. [10:44:23][738.9] [10:44:23] It's but then you get the video clip right. Yes, I get it before I leave the property that night. OK, so you had before you leave. So just in case, as you're driving around the neighborhood, you see someone who fits that description. Yes. OK, you understood also on October 25th that when he left Larry Englishes House, this unidentified black male, he went across the street to Supai Lawrence's house. Yes, annexion we have an issue we SUV to take up outside the presence of the jury. [10:45:10][46.8] [10:45:10] This gentleman, if you go ahead, retired the jury room for our first. I don't necessarily know that he needs to sit down with this. Your Honor, Mr. Morant's was not at home on October 25th, and she then tells Diego Perez something. And then Diego Perez tells this officer something. I asked Mr. Rubin, are you going to go into this because it's hearsay, within hearsay, within hearsay, because Diego Perez is telling him something that Supai Lawrence said and he said, no, I'm not going to go into that. And then it's you knew that he went for it to be Lawrence's house. So the only way this officer would know that is if Diego Perez had told him that and his supervisor told Diego Preston, now, we were to triple hearsay here. And I mean, so I didn't ask for any hearsay in that question. And the way he this is why I was asking the way he knows he went towards to Lawrence's house is because Larry English made a second nine one one call that's in evidence on October 25th, saying he's going across the street to a whitish yellow house and he went there. It's not hearsay. It's exactly what he did ask the question. So the question I thought was and and he ran to civil war in the direction of Suvi Awards house. Correct. And that's in the nine one one call isn't mentioned Superbikes by name. But if he describes the house and in fact, officers went there, where did you learn information? I could not recall if it was actually from dispatch or while I was on scene with Mr. Diego. Perez was out walking around that night. And until I did not know exactly. Did it come from dispatch for CB or from Diego Perez, one or the other? Let's just clarify that we can from that. And I'm not asking what Diego did or anything like that. OK, That's what I was going it could be one for the other. And that was my concern. It's like we're going down this path, a range of U.S. [10:47:48][158.3] [10:47:48] I just want to head off the forward center. I'm not going to address anything before the panel understand what the witnesses testify to. And there's a possibility of two different reasons for two different reasons for him having that knowledge. I'm not going to address anything before the panel understand what the witnesses testify to. And there's a possibility of two different reasons for two different reasons for him having that knowledge. You're welcome to follow up on directly. Let's go. [10:48:16][28.0] [10:48:16] Found detective dispatch to conspiracy to all let the state follow up on the. But that is in evidence. Yes. I'll call it from the dispatcher. Yes, we're we're resolved. We're moving forward. Mr. Roof, maybe you could just clear the whole thing up by asking him that question where he learned that Ms. Like, your answer is, I don't know if I heard it from this guy or heard it from here, but now he doesn't know which hearsay source what struck out. Let's not worry about let's move on to whatever your next question. Whatever he did, it becomes relevant. That's what I was. All right, sir. Juries lose. Welcome back. We resolve the matters. We need to resolve the evidence, Mr. Riddick. Thank you, Officer Rasche. After check me out Larry Englishes. How did you end up going over to Steube Lawrence? I did. And what do you have to tell the jury? I went over and knocked on the door. I noticed that she had a blink. I hate black square camera on her front porch, shining down towards the walkway leading up to the door. Did you look around the house or just go to the front door? I looked around. The rear of the property is fenced in, so I looked around the front yard and would be the left side, which faces Jones or Jones Road. OK, didn't see the blackmail note by that point. Did you already have this video clip? Do you know what I have to look at the time that was actually sent to my phone versus the time that I was over there when you went to see me Lawrence's house, were you aware of that? Larry English had called back to the county police department describing where this man in his perception was going to? Yes, OK, And so that so then you went to sibilant steps. Yes. [10:51:33][197.3] [10:51:33] OK, while you were out at Steube Lawrence's house, did you see a man named Diego Perez? Yes, I did. And without telling us anything, Diego Perez said, what was he doing out there? Checking our property. You know, he was armed. I do not take. Did you ask him? No, I did not. Did he get in your way in any way? No, he did not. OK, so he was looking around the property at about the same time you were looking around? Yes. Was he still in his boxer shorts? I do not recall him being a boxer shorts. OK, fully dressed. And I would suggest dressy as far as you know, as far as I was dressed. OK, if I understand correctly, you received the next call to go out to Larynxes House on November 18th. Is that correct? I [10:52:30][56.9] [10:52:30] believe so, yes. OK, OK. Um, and that would have been your second time out there. Did you at the time you went out there on that on November 18th, have Larry English send you the video clips again? Yes. [10:52:47][17.4] [10:52:47] OK, so when you went out there on the 18th, you knew you're looking for the same black male who's come back on this property. Yes. In this time, if you can play November eight, and this is state's exhibit is one twenty three you saw here you saw this video clip. Yes. OK, now you'll see in the video clip selling some video clip, the boat on the left hand side of the of the video, right? Yes. That's not the boat where Larry Englishes electronics were stolen from Nossa. That's a smaller just both for towing around the river. Yes. Or not as offshore. [10:53:38][50.9] [10:53:37] But it's but you understood by the 18th and correct me if I'm wrong, that he had had a theft from his boat that was parked the property. I was aware of a theft from the boat, but I do not know the date and time that he called me and told me and told me about that. OK, so it's possible that you went there on the 18th and still didn't know about items missing from Larry Englishes House. Yes. OK, you went there on the 18th and this time you're still with other officers. Yes. Dark. Yes. You go into the scene, you have your flashlight. Yes, sir. You have your gun? Yes. Is it drawn while we're checking? I don't recall, OK, because at this point, you still have no information that this man is possibly OK. No reason to worry about a threat at that point. No. OK, but it's now struck you that twice the same black male was entered larynxes house. Yes. And didn't catch him. He's gone by the time you get there. He's gone out twice. Yes, sir. How long does it take you and believe me, I'm not criticizing you at all. You get the call, you go, how long does it take you to get there on these occasions to thank you very, very well. I mean, am I on another call? I have to finish up there. It could be if I'm just out riding the from the central location of my area, five to four to eight minutes. OK, so within forty eight minutes at best, four minutes worse. Eight minutes. The guy is gone. Yes. [10:55:16][98.6] [10:55:15] OK, on the 18th when you check out the property and I assume you checked out the dock area, it's there's a camper on the property just like we saw on the 11th. Check out the camper area. They've got valuables stored at this property right? Yes. It's got construction valuables. Yes. Saws and other tools, right? Yes. It's got boats that are valuable. Yes. Equipment within boats that are valuable. Yes. He's got a camper that contains his belongings. Yes, it's his property. Right, sir. Even though it's an open construction site, it's his property. Yes. He has a right to keep people on or off as he sees fit. He does OK. You're now there twice. You miss him twice. Yes. Do you know how he gets away on the 18th other than walking away? That's it. OK, do you do any other steps that might take any other steps to find the black male? Just canvased the neighborhood. [10:56:13][57.8] [10:56:13] When you say canvass and this is on the eighteenth, are you just patrolling the neighborhood or are you actually knocking on doors, driving around, shining the spotlight? OK, doing doing what you can to find this elusive black male. Yes. OK, you get a call from Larry English on the 1st of December, but you're off duty. Yes, but he describes for you suspect someone he thinks may be involved in the theft of the stuff from his boat. Yes. So is it fair to say to the jury that by December 1st, you know, Larry, English has been burglarized? Objection to that characterization? That's not at all a very English setter testified to well, I'm asking this officer's perceptions at that time, relevancy as to this officer's perceptions. At that time, it was very obvious that Larry was testifying yesterday subject to speaking objections. What did you learn? English has testified to his testimony is in the record. You're asking this witness what his recollection is of what it's based, as I understand it. Go with that over by December 1st. Twenty nineteen. You understood that Larry English was missing, is that right? I knew he was missing a quarter. I didn't know it was a psychologist gave a plug to Eddie to do that. And he purp satellite system. Yes. And another piece of electronic having a microphone system. Yes. OK, and you understood that the items were taken from the offshore boat that had been parked out there in this house. Yes, right. In the same area. With this boat is now part in state's exhibit one. Twenty one twenty three. Yes. That are the garage. Mr because you're off duty. Last thing you need is to get these calls. So you say, you know, call somebody else or I'll be there. I can check it out tomorrow. Now, are you referring to the item stolen or the. Well, on December 1st is calling you got a suspect now of who might have done it in his mind? Yes. I told him I was off duty and I he called and refers to the people under the bridge. Right. And that told him I would check it out when I was by phone duty. And you were nice enough on the 2nd of December to go down to the fancy bluffs bridge and look under the bridge to see if there was any truth to this this notion that the person who was stealing the items and entering his house was down there under the bridge. Yes. You didn't see any evidence of that? Did not. And that was the end of that into that. [10:56:13][0.0] [10:58:57] OK, help us understand when you not just patrolled the neighborhood, but actually went around the neighborhood talking to everyone. I think it's the word you said on February 11th. When did you talk to people? Not every single one, but anybody that I encountered riding a golf cart, walking, I would stop. Hey, I'm off thrash. I introduced myself and asked them I would show them a steal from that video. Have you seen this guy? In around the neighborhood? Do you know where they live? We would patrol every day. I'm on shift. I ride that neighborhood, won't try to ride at once or sometimes twice per shift. OK, so it's not just one day you said I'm going to go knock on doors. It's it's throughout this whole time period. Yes. And you're patrolling the neighborhood. You're going down to tell a verver, sellwood, homes, Jones, all the streets you patrol in that subdivision. And when you see someone in the yard, you stop. When you see a house has a ring doorbell or some other camera system, you stop and inquire. Yes, because you're trying to find the guy who has entered larynxes house now twice and twice got in the way. [11:00:26][89.3] [11:00:26] It's you're asking people. But to your frustration, no one knows. This guy knows. No one can tell you where he lives. No one can tell you. No one even told you they saw him jogging in the neighborhood. That's right. Not a single person has seen him jogging that you talk. No, I did not specifically ask have you seen this guy jogging? But no one had seen him in the neighborhood, period. Tell us about how many people over the course of those months that you talk to about this. How many people did you talk to? A dozen. Twelve to ten to twenty people. You're showing people the stills not from the November 18th, but the stills from October 25th. [11:01:23][56.6] [11:01:23] Video for both, I believe, from the twenty fifth, still from the twenty four guy on the dock. Yes, OK. And you're letting them know that this is a guy seen up to twenty eight to tell the driver. Yes, some people might know their English, but I assume most did not know who he was. I've no idea on that. OK, when you did you, did you ask people to review their surveillance videos to see if he might have been captured on certain dates on those videos? I never encountered anybody that had video that so I didn't ask anybody to review. OK, the next time you go out, there is February one this February eleventh is now in Europe. Your third time responding to larynxes house. I believe it's obvious. You're aware, though, that that other officers have been to larynxes house, right? Yes. Are you talking to these other officers? I have interacted a couple of times just passing on the light at the end of our shift, the end of the beginning of next year. Let them know, hey, be on the lookout. You know, pass along to the next officer. I believe I called the officer powers on the phone and passed on some information. Those are briefings. We don't always see each other face to face. I would just call, hey, are you working? Baker nine tonight. Are you working? Baker nine today. Be on the lookout. And Officer Powers is one of those officers who did respond to larynxes house on the 17th of November. I believe so. That's right. When the white couple came to his house, you didn't respond to that call. Is it your understanding that Officer Powers responded, I'm trying to look at the catalog. He was on duty. If you don't have any knowledge, that's fine. February 11th, this time is not there. You should call. It's Travis McMichaels. Call. [11:03:55][152.0] [11:03:54] Yes. Were you aware when you got there or on your way there that the man who is now seen on the 11th of February is possibly armed? At one point, Travis says that he was appeared to reach for his pocket or his waistband. I do not recall if that was relayed to me via dispatch while I was in or out or once I arrived on scene. OK, so we saw the video. And this time you're not just going in with your flashlight. This time you got guns drawn. So does that help refresh your memory? Does of of when you heard that the man in the house is possibly armed? Yeah, that would I would say yes. And what is your memory now? Tell you is when you talk about when you learn that we talked about we went in with our guns drawn based on that, the dispatcher told us that he was possibly armed. That's why we would have went in there with our guns drawn while we searched the residence. So this is a different situation. You're now going in a house and you might encounter a man who has a gun. Yes. Heart pumping. Yes. Adrenaline flowing. Yes. Now you've got to be on you're really on your toes. Yes. And we saw another officer with you. I think his name is Trenton. But Trenton Sherman, Officer Sherman, he's there with you. Yes. [11:05:17][83.2] [11:05:17] At some point, did you hear Officer Trenton say, I'm just using the quote from, quote, Tell me where you at, motherfucker? I don't recall hearing a at this point, though. You're on heightened alert. Yes, you have. When you get on scene, you have neighbors out there. You have ties with my classmates. But you hadn't met up so you have Greg McMichael out there. And again, you have Diego Perez out there. Yes. You recognize Diego is the guy you saw on the 18th of November? Yes. You got Officer Sherman with you or you come later. Officer Sherman arrived after Exwife stood by the car out front waiting on him. He and Officer Smith, they arrived about the same time. And there you're there, your partner is there. Your back up as close as Bindi's. You're taking the lead on this? [11:06:26][69.6] [11:06:26] Yes. OK, and when you get there, essentially, Travis MacMichael, Diego Perez, engraving, Michael are keeping an eye on the house. Yes. OK, making sure that if this guy goes anywhere, this intruder that they keep eyes on. Objection. Overuse of the word intruder and judge. We would object to that. Use that word burglar. So listen to me, as I've already instructed you, the questions asked by lawyers and statements made by lawyers are not evidence in this case. Mr. Ruben chooses to use that word to describe the individual. Again, the testimony. [11:07:27][60.7] [11:07:31] In this case and what you may see as exhibits mistruth when you get there. Three neighbors have basically flat out front and back of the house to keep out for this guy. Right upon my arrival, they were all in the front yard on the front porch. At what point do they start going in the back? Uh, I don't recall them going in the back while we were clearing the residence where you're told Travis is in the back at some point. That's after we walked back to the front. After we cleared the residence. I believe I feel good. [11:08:13][42.1] [11:08:12] So, yeah, this is, uh, one of two things. Exhibit 231. Let's walk through this video a little bit. Yes. Actually, um, I suggest you mind, Jonathan, It's looking for a specific portion of the transcript just at this time. We're going to walk through that the the exhibit again. So listen to me, if we could, if you're going to get copies of the transcript, but don't start reading back over. Mr. Rubins going to be referring to apportions the transcript and those transcripts, transcripts are being given back to you to help you refer to that page line that's being addressed. [11:09:06][54.5] [11:09:06] So if you please use those in that way. Thank you. I'll try not to ask about what's being said versus what's been seen so we don't have them reading why they should be lost. If we can, stuff like that. And this is you testified earlier that Nancy, on the screen at this point is Diego Perez. She's got a flashlight. Yes. And he's heading towards the down the side of the house. Is that correct? Yes. To the side. [11:09:34][27.5] [11:09:34] OK, now the side of the house that that white vehicle for that line item, that's Mr. Englishes camper. Yes. OK, let's stop there. At that point, Officer Rash, had you authorized Diego Perez to do any investigation? I have not authorized you authorized him to do any search for Mr. English or for you? No, I have not. You had not deputized Diego Perez? No, I have not. But he's out there assisting. Yes. You're OK with that at that time? Yes. He didn't have a problem with that? No. And Greg McMichael and Travis McMichael are there as well. Oh, yes. You're OK with that? Yes. You even find out Travis is on file? Yes. You're OK with that? Yes. We didn't tell. Have to go put his gun. No. You didn't tell Travis to go home? No, I did not tell Greg to go home. No, I did not. You didn't tell Diego to go? No, I did not. There, out there keeping their eyes out. Assisting you. Yes. You're OK with that? Yes. OK, stuff. Do you see this flashlight back here? Yes, sir. Do you know who that is? That's Diego Perez standing along the fence, shining a light magnet. OK, so he's while you're in front with other officers, your body cameras now just turning on. He's out. [11:11:33][119.3] [11:11:33] He's back. He's heading back by the camper and back where the doc is correct. He's walking down the side of the house. Yes. OK, go to this house, call this guy video. I called him several hours prior to that. Call me tonight. Yeah, stop right there. Larry English didn't even call you that night until you called him proof. Is it your understanding that instead of calling Glynn County Police, he called Diego Perez? I did not know that. OK, that point on. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Say that at that point, I did not know that. When did you find that out? When he on the phone, he told me he had sent the video to Diego and that's when I responded. I'm the one on duty tonight. I understood him. He sent it to an officer. We have the notary, Diego Delaporte. [11:12:33][60.5] [11:12:33] I was thinking he sent that to another officer. That's why I on the phone with Mr. English, I said, I'm the one on duty tonight. Send it to me. Did you ever ask Diego Perez this night to see what their English had sent him? No, I did not. Because you didn't know he had it? I did not. OK, what do we see you getting out of your eye? Looks like that's a flashlight that's out of my front door. I have a and I have my standard police to issue flashlight. And then I have a larger it's a brighter flashlight in my police issue. Flashlight was going down, so I went and retrieved a second flashlight. And while you're retrieving your flashlight, we see two gentlemen on your body cam. I think you've identified the man in the blue shirt is Diego Perez. And you know who that is, Billy? That's Travis. Greg MacMichael, the man in what looks like a great short sleeve shirt. Yes, OK. And he's walking around the house as well there in the front yard of the house. Yes. OK, They don't watch him. They said, unless he jumped the fence and went over somewhere. They don't know if he has down the road. So we just need to check in with stop. OK, that's you. That is you got your flashlight in one hand and your police issued firearm the other. Yes. OK, guns drawn. [11:14:31][118.3] [11:14:31] Yes, OK, but the county police, anybody about here and stuff, 111359 COUNSEL>> You got your gun drawn, but it's a burglary, or trespassing. It's a property crime. So why is your gun drawn? RASH>> I believe at that point then that we were notified, that's, I guess dispatch had notified us that possibly armed. 111414 COUNSEL>> So it's for your protection. RASH>> My protection. COUNSEL>> Not to hurt anybody. It's to protect you -- RASH>> Absolutely. COUNSEL>> -- in case somebody jumps down from the rafters we're looking at -- 111425 RASH>> Yes, sir. COUNSEL>> --and surprises you. RASH>> Yes, sir. COUNSEL>> You need to protect yourself. RASH>> Yes, sir. COUNSEL>> You need to protect Officer Sherman. RASH>> Yes, sir. 111432 COUNSEL>> You need to protect Greg McMichael, Travis McMichael, and Diego Perez, because they're in danger, too. RASH>> Possibly. COUNSEL>> You don't know what's going to happen. RASH>> I do not. COUNSEL>> But you don't take any chances. RASH>> Not at all. COUNSEL>> OK, so it's standard procedure when you go into a possible armed situation to make sure you have your gun ready. RASH>> Yes. COUNSEL>> For your protection. RASH>> Yes, sir. [11:15:32] Yes, sir. Click here. Can you stop right there? I didn't hear you, officer. Say maybe I just missed it. Glynn County police come out like they do on TV. Did you did you say I missed it or you didn't say. I said don't come in, please, when we walked in. OK, so that's to announce your presence. Yes. And that's to make sure you're not surprising anybody is to make sure that that person knows that they that that they should come out because you're you're an officer. Did you use your presence to get compliance with orders? Yes. Your uniform. You want them to see your badge. Right. This see your see your vest if you're wearing a vest that night says county police, because presence is one way to gain compliance. Yes, sir. Shouts is another word shout meaning I'm here. Yes, sir. I want you to come out with your hands up. That's gaining compliance, right? Yes, sir. Are you familiar with the phrase shout shove show, shoot? I'm sure you're familiar with the use of force continuum. Yes. In the use force continuum, as you know from your training, is the levels of force that can be used by a police officer. Yes. Including just to present his use of force. Yes. When I'm here and I tell you to do something, you do it just because I'm here. There's another way to to to get compliance. Is shouting command. Yes. Do as I say. Because I'm telling you as a police officer what to do. Yes. Right. And I have the authority to do that. It's another another way to gain compliance is to show your weapon as you're doing here. Yes, I have a weapon. Don't do anything stupid here. You're not hiding it, right? Not it's not a concealed weapon. You want them to see it, right? Yes, sir. Because seeing a weapon will gain compliance from the person you're seeking to investigate. Yes, sir. OK, and then last course, the ultimate use of force is shooting someone. And that's deadly force. Yes. And you only do that when you yourself are in danger, when other people are in danger. [11:18:04][152.0] [11:18:04] Yes. I no, it's just happening there. There's a ladder here, I said, adding, but, well, there's a ladder right here. We stand up, but they don't have the added that Officer Sherman, that is Officer Sherman. Look, correct right here. They're still the dog in the bonus. We've got one example of a verbal command of presence. Yes. You already see the door on this camper. So you've got cameras out here. Guys, how on before? I'm here messing around on the boat stuff. Who are you talking to? Officer Sherman. OK, so you're getting him up to speed on the things that you know, that the guy's caught him, the guy being Larry English. Yes, caught him. I caught him long before I was here messing around on the boats and stuff. About the stuff in the back of the house. On the docks. Yes, on the docks. OK, great. They got the other promises. So the first the likelihood of a for this. So this guy's got these cameras and he lives in Douglas or somewhere he's always home and takes some video. The guy wanted to do the house. Well, the night neighbor saw the flashlight somewhere in here. So you use Mr. and Mrs. Word plundering kind of like you. Thank you very much. Ketchum's quandary means messed around with stuff. You shouldn't be messing around with buildings just like you and I should get out of our way. You're getting into my stuff. Yes. And that's how you use and you got that word from their English say word. He used the. Oh, yeah. That's good quality stuff, too, he says with a video of good quality stuff. What are you referring to? And the officer, I believe, is Officer Sherman was standing there looking up at the camera located on the front of the house. My body camera doesn't show it, but he's standing there with his life looking at the camera that Mr. English has mounted on the front for him. So the good quality stuff is the good quality surveillance system that allows you now to know what this guy looks like and to be able to identify. Yes, or most a lot of places we go to the cameras, look like they were from the 1950s, very, very poor quality. And those were some of the better quality cameras I have seen. Good. Are you back out front? Yes, sir. Welcome back up to our cars. We don't see him back there. Let's jump the fence this way or just walk down there. He saw it this way. OK, I'm going to stop it. So at this point, Greg McMichael is talking to you. Correct. And Greg, Miko's telling you that Travis just walked down there going in my backyard to check back this way. So Mr. MacMichael, Travis McMichael at this point is kind of expanding the search, going down to good as he's going down to his residence in the back yard. We're outside. Yeah, he's going in my backyard to go check back this way. Right. Because it's possible that the black male intruder is left that scene and is in somebody else's backyard possibility. And Travis is checking that out. Yes. And Travis is checking it out on February 11th. Twenty twenty with a gun. I don't know that he is checking out other people's backyards or in his backyard. He's going to check out his backyard. He's armed. Yes, he is. Just like he was armed when he was back in there. He was just out of. Yes, OK, he didn't go home, get the gun, come back out and go into his backyard. Right. Not that I'm aware. OK, you're OK with that? No right to carry a firearm. He does. And just like you're needing it for protection, he has the right to protect himself as well as he does on his property. Is on any property, right? Yes. OK, I think all our guys are in to watch all of this. The same cop is gone to sleep. [11:25:41][457.3] [11:25:41] So did Travis actually solve Yifei? Turn around here, put the lights on Tuesday. Why did he call this inside the house. So that you can talk about this stuff about video. Do you have a window? Right. Yes. We didn't identify think this guy's Ronnie Ronnie Olsen and he lives right across the street. Yes sir. During the procedure generally crossing to nineteen Seattle police, did you understand that he has a surveillance system? I knew he had a camera in his window and he mentioned then he had one on the corner the eve of the eve of his house. But it just wasn't very good at night. [11:25:41][0.0] [11:26:20] No, I have any music out here after dark and. All right. So they waited and waited. He said he was late. So I'm not I'm not. I'm again, I'm a columnist in English, just getting him to look back at his cameras. He's got this guy he's always off with. Nobody in the neighborhood knows who he is. And we can I've been about every house. We're trying to I know you said earlier it wasn't really every house door to door, but ten to twenty people. No one's seen him walking the neighborhood, running the neighborhood, jogging the neighborhood. Doing anything, even if no one's seen, no one had ever seen. OK, I mean, he's been on their video. They video over here. We've called him on this guy. He's got we called him on several media cameras, but we just can't find where he's and he usually goes this way straight down that road that again, you're saying he goes this way. You talk about Jones. Jones. Yes. OK, I could just just you and everybody, if they can see. If you can see until the drive is the entrance up here, can you see that officer around and still alive? This is Jones and that's Larry Englishes House right across from Jones. That Michael live further down. OK, so we're I'm standing in this picture. Jones Road would be right to the right where Mr. Olsen, you can see Mr. Olsen pointing down Jones Road. OK, so if you look right across the street, you look down JONES Well, yeah, but it ain't directly across. You see the house, but off to the right of Mr. Olsen. Jones Road. That's the telegraph. OK, and then Jones would be off to the right of him. Do you know Matt Albanese? I do know Matt. He lives down those. OK, I hear you go down that road. Yeah, back. That's that's usually the way he goes. How do you know the way he usually has been is certain based on mystery, which is the scene when he leaves the property. The first time he said he went over towards Jones Road, towards the house on the corner. And the second time, I believe Mr English and I remember him telling me that he left in the same direction. OK, do you know if if that black male had any business down that road? I do not. Doesn't know. There's no grandma down there. I don't know who he is. I have no knowledge that this camera's. Oh was it how it got there. Yeah. The son saw him looked like ribbon round and he got inside. It's another that's when the dog out there, this is the one before they called him inside. So he's got kind of a yes. Er if it's the same guy in his sleep, he's lighter skinned and he gets sleep, he's of at this point you hadn't gotten Inglis's videos yet for this night. No, I'm not showing Officer Sherman video because he is about to start driving around canvasing the neighborhood and you want him looking for that black male. Yes. OK, very sure. That's what is this stuff down here. [11:31:01][280.9] [11:31:01] He rented the house, told me and I right out front he was looking for a flashlight like I said, was watching that here. OK, now if I come across straight on that door, that realty, when we transfer, he could have able to see. No, no, we don't have we try and trap in door to door. Nobody knows he was, you know, good. I you know, sir, I guess to see I saw this, he was able to get it in. OK, send me to go. But I was going to be you did not even know he was there. The, you know, on duty tonight know we've there's five or six of us here along with the neighbors and we haven't seen it. We've searched everything so they can track five or six of you meeting Glynn County Police Department. Yes. And neighbors and neighbors are not only McMichaels and Diego Perez, but also Ronnie Olsen. Now, we're announcing this at some point we see Matt Albanese come into view in a red shirt, right? Yes. [11:32:13][71.7] [11:32:12] OK, this is he went out, went right to the house. So he went out. He jumped the fence somewhere and went right or left. But we looked all on the dog and in the camp, the camper round the camper, we all up in the rafters and everything. I never even got on a ladder. Look up there to see these on top of around the area where there are no signs of him here. They're they're canvasing the neighborhood right now. So we're actively looking at your neighbor across the street. Oh, look at this camera. Just this camera. Lozado, whatever. This road is John Road. He's got a camera that looks at Joan Road. He's going to look at it and see if you see where he went that way. But as of now, I swear I'll go see what video you have. Does it look like it's the same guys always will also be our own officer. They're going to so that the camera doesn't look like the same guys always. Elham Hello, sir. It's the little guy. The same guy as always. Same guy, right? That's what I'm telling you, sir. [11:33:39][87.2] [11:33:39] First time now, you've actually confirmed that the guy on February 11th is the guy on November 18th, the guy on October 25th. Yes. I still can't catch the. Oh, yeah. The guy that Mr. McMichael lives on the road, the retired law enforcement officer and the D.A. investigator, his son saw him and said, you know, the black male, I don't know, Ransdorf or whatever, if I heard get exactly what he had. But he saw me in turn in New York. But the headlights on him and he running into I saw him run through the house. We just don't know who he is. All right. All right. [11:34:30][50.5] [11:34:30] Thanks. They say it's the same guy. He's got to be house arrest. You're approaching Greg McMichael, Travis McMichael and somebody I can't I don't know who that is. I don't know Sherman or somebody else telling them English is just confirmed. It's the same guy who's been breaking into the house on multiple occasions. There's no breaking in. Trespassing on the property. Yes. Trespassing. But stuff's missing, not by this guy. Do you know that none of the video shows him take anything from the property? No one in the video shows anybody taking anything. That stuff's missing. There is stuff missing from the boat, from the boat on the property. Yes, right. Yes. Circumstantial evidence. Right. Objection. Calls for a legal position. It's with the jury. I think it's officers now explaining what he knows and and how he knows it and what significance it has to him. [11:35:36][66.1] [11:35:36] He should explain what he knows, understands those on the property. I know there's stuff missing from the boat on the property is at the same time. This blackmail has now entered three times. Yes. OK, but you're talking to Travis cigaret, right as you're walking down confirming that Larry English says it's the same guy. Yes. He said, I'll be this person in here, but we'll get this a this is video of this being done. This is the video link. [11:36:16][40.6] [11:36:16] It's from one of the prior cinches, obviously. Tatsumi Simao, Travis confirms for you that the guy he's looking at on February 11th, the guy he saw in person, is the same guy that's been there before. Yes. He was wearing a red shirt, white van. I didn't see his face, but he's got like twisty hair, three square. That's my dress. The twist, what I call it, that wasn't Einstein. But that's just that's what it is. The same guy. I don't know where he's coming from. He's still down this road. No, no, no. It's almost 17 year old girl from the when Travis tells you he's coming down this road, we're talking about satellite drive he is pointing to from the entrance down until the drop. So at least try the suspects is telling you it's coming from the entrance at seventeen into the neighborhood. That's what he's done. OK, go to where I've been. I've been up there, you know, be out here for Jones and somewhere. Do you have the family there to have the baby adopted right now? Possibly. As I went and talked to them, they got one that kind of matches it. But he's a little better player. He's got something wrong with it. I heard he just had a kidney transplant. He just got the old lady, right? Yeah. [11:37:54][98.1] [11:37:54] And when you Chernow's down the house has got a dumpster out there. There's some black trash there. Right. A matter of fact. No, I can forget they have some kids that age, you know. Well, I've been there for a couple of reports of an alleged assault or whatever. It's the kids that have her, the female now and this one's boyfriend they had over there. So it could be unless somebody moved in with him or whatever. But, you know, nobody seems to know who this kid is, where he's coming from. But like, he's always all the time on the video that Mr English said recently, it's always been just in there floating around. We haven't seen him actually taking that stuff. He hasn't seen him take anything. Right. That's what he said. Travis and Greg. But you don't say he hasn't taken anything that's true. Only that he hasn't been seen as a machine taking anything, just as no one's been seen taking it. No, I said so. Trespassing. Yeah. Yeah. Stop worrying. Worrying about criminal trespass. Yeah, yeah. At the very least. Is that you talking or someone else time I believe Greg said criminal trespass. And I said at the very least, At the very least. Because it could be. Look at the state. Oh it is, yes. It could be burglary. If, if he is taking something then yes he could be charged with murder. Well if he's not taking something but goes in with the intent to take something, you understand that's burglary. Right? Of course. But with the intent to take something. If he had. I know he had the intent. I don't know. I'm just saying that's the that's the law, as you understand it, as an officer. Right. With the intent. Yes, the law does so with the intent. OK, been reported stolen in the first. [11:39:55][121.8] [11:39:55] Now, we do have to go down the road here, the house for the guy, which is he has those stolen of some guns, all of but we got our video card and people are coming in and stole them. They were from another neighbor doing some. Oh, that's my job. Mr. Brady. I'm just calling for you. Go, go. In. The room is just tonight. Joe, this is fix it up, right? Oh, yes. Yes. Thank you very much. Yeah. [11:40:39][43.2] [11:40:39] Driza-Bone Black Hawk Down, a lighter skinned black woman over his own, got like twisted dreads three, four inches long. He has sleeve tattooed on his arms dealer live right here. I come from a bar, so I will go see your you know, I could do what I don't do. It's a rich person of a lot of money. And this is, again, we're trying to back is to scribing the man he saw on the property reaching into his pocket. Yes. [11:41:28][49.7] [11:41:28] He's talking to the master of this. You got to go out of your way. I'll be back anyway. If all had it on set right here. Call Joe. You know, I don't know that you're going for. So he doesn't really matter that. So I won't cross my vote no further. Down there. But House on the rocks on the street, that's probably wrong. I got right here in a van or just parked outside, right? Yeah. Good. Appreciate your being here. The I've been looking for me those weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. The house. The house out there on the right. Right. Oh yeah. I think a bit half a million for to go through come home early as they work on Geophone. So important energy on the road and call up good at making deals down here. When they lost recently they'll go down here and take measures. They got all the way. We busted a house. All right, let's play. We got the wrong guy. When said he had a guy living with him, we got him on some outstanding warrants and he was got a bunch of about it. Yeah. But, you know, around here, what's the guy, Jean, you don't talk about. Yeah. That's real there. You know where he lives. He's got a great group of laughing crowd. He got to ask, you know. Well oh boy did they catch Buie which is genes. I guess that's genes on a girlfriend get a girlfriend. I don't know. That's Gene, wife or girlfriend. But her kid, he is in prison. He's fully had his face pass everything. He she totally tried to commit suicide in jail. There was no, no, no, no. He was I was down there last week. He called on the morning he was driven out. So the satellites were watching him. And this time he was he was out there. He was on something else like, no at this school for you being that morning, I said, where's your mom? Was Gene? Well, they're in hell. No, not at all. I think yeah. Maybe it was Al supposably. His grandma died of his grandmother and they were over there staying at her house for a little while. But the house looks like the gloominess, right? I'm wondering if they even knew I was. I said, if you have permission to be here, Tasch. Oh, they know I'm here. I tried to call mom. Mom, I couldn't get a hold over, son. I passed on a Monday show guy. I said, you may get a call today. My mom may come home and want to know why he was over there, because he had been trespassing on the property at one time. So. Right. But I guess the behavior was looking. Got to look for to find the I appreciate calling pretty well. Horrible stuff. And they can't see who's talking to you there. Someone telling you about a dark colored car. And Officer Chandler Smith, that's Chandler Smith. He and went out and drove around the neighborhood. And he's telling you on page 19, line twenty one. I'm pretty sure he got somebody that somebody pick him up. Yes. OK, and on page twenty from one say same guy, Officer Smith is telling you there was a little dark colored car that was stopped and stayed there. I watched it all the way until you noticed until a drive comes into view. Yes. What is he explaining to you? Whether you understand him to be explained? There was a dark colored car stopped down the road as he approached the car, took off. Is that suspicious to you or was that suspicious to you at the time that that car took off? Could be. Could we get somebody standing there in part to see what we're doing, watching us? Do you know where on satellite drive he's talking about? I do not know if it's closer to 17 or closer towards Furfur. [11:46:08][280.0] [11:46:08] I'm talking about up here or that said, I was coming up the wall and there was a little dark colored car that was stopped. It stayed there. Was he coming up? I don't know which way he was coming up, though. He was coming up from satellite or coming up from 17. I watched it all the way and they hit that video in here tonight. I mean, that video was good news. Cameras are good. He walks in, he just wanders around. And that guy like five different videos of him going in there. And, oh, no, no, he doesn't take anything. He's just goofing around. Now, the guy has had some stuff stolen out of his phone, but he has he didn't have any cause he had a fake a bigger boat. Corporate volcanoes in the Balkan block. And he got like to per cent of uranium, whatever that is in the bank, about two thousand dollars or so stolen. But he has no video of the people taken. So he's taken the air conditioner. People who have worked for the that have he only had cameras outside the house after that. He had the cameras to the inside to help you just sum up the whole thing. I come in the house pilfering real stuff stolen from the boat. Suspect air conditioning guys right. Same black male coming back now three times. Yes. To your knowledge, up fresh between February 11th and February. 2013. Never saw this black man never, never able to catch them despite being out there within minutes. Right. If and when seconds count, sometimes minutes don't work. True. Thank you, sir. [11:48:56][167.8] [11:48:56] So I have no Mr if you don't mind, we collect of the transcripts of the ulceration Franklin Hoague. And along with my wife and co counsel Laura, we represent Greg MacMichael Holiday. Everything Mr. Rubin just did with you on cross-examination and I won't repeat any of it. So I just want to talk to you about one other topic that has come up much here. OK, let's go to December, the twentieth of twenty nineteen. You're out patrolling Atila Shores, area oriented and with me. Yes, sir. And you see great Michael out in his yard in front of his house. Yes. At two thirty to a short drive, right. Yes. And you recognize him? Yes. You already knew who he was. Yes. You knew him from law enforcement years. You'd seen him around the DA's office or the Glynn County Police Department. Right. Yes, sir. In fact, you knew that he had once worked with your own dad who was in law enforcement. Yes. And he stopped that day to talk to him while you were patrolling cities with Shaw's because you were in, in effect, investigating this possible burglary at Larry Englishes house. [11:51:07][131.5] [11:51:05] Yes, And specifically, he stopped to show him videos or still shots or both that you had in your possession on yourself that you had gotten from Larry English, right? Yes. So did you get out of your car and stand in the yard to show him the. I stayed in my car, the seat of my heart. So he came over to your car door? Yes. And you were talking and you were telling him about your investing and showing him these videos? Yes. OK, so by that time you're showing him the video of October the twenty fifth twenty nineteen that we have already seen and I will replay that shows the young black male on the boat dock, right? Yes, sir. And you show him all the video you have of that. And I don't I don't believe we sat and watched every clip entirety. Then you move on to the November 17 twenty nineteen video that shows the white couple walking into looks like the boat garage. That's right. Showed him that video. I believe so, yes. And then you showed him the video from November 18. Twenty 19 of the same black male that had been there on October the twenty fifth. I don't recall if I showed the 18th but I when we had the discussion, he had been there multiple times. That's what you told him. Yes. This person on the screen shot and the video you had from October the twenty fifth had been there multiple times. Yes. There being the English house. Yes. And he told you, Mr. MacMichael, that he did not in this room. Michael Fulton, you're saying I'm not offering it for the truth of what he said, but for what this officer did with the information he acquired as he is conducting an investigation of a burglary, objection to the characterization of it as a burglary. It's not a burglary. It's sustained. You just ask him what he did. That's what he did. All right. Based on your showing the video of this person, the young black male or the white couple? To Greg McMichael, did you acquire information from Greg? Michael then helped you that day? Solve the crime? No, I do not know. And so he was of no help to you in solving the crime by telling you who these people were and where you can go find them. He was not you understood that he didn't even know who was on that house. My understanding is. But you did tell him that the person on the house didn't live there. He lived a couple of hours away. And Douglas George leave. And then you discussed with him that the owner of the house had indeed had expensive items stolen from the boat that was parked at that house sometime in October or November of twenty nineteen. Right. I don't remember the exact date, but I do recall telling him that there was items had been items missing from the boat and you let him know what you were doing. You were trying to identify the people in these videos so that you could get help from the neighbors to solve the crime. [11:55:01][236.2] [11:55:01] Yes, So you knew he was retired law enforcement, right? Yes. And he told you that day that he would give you his phone number and that you could give his phone number to the owner of that house? He did, Larry English. And in fact, he gave you his phone number, right? He did. And told you that you could convey that phone number to Larry English and that if Larry English got any more activity on his camera, he could call Greg McMichael day or night. Yes. And that he would do what he could to help. Yes. Now, in your experience, it's not uncommon in tight knit communities for there to be neighbors who will offer to help neighbors like that. Is it not uncommon that you've encountered that sort of neighborly helpfulness, rather people before other neighbors, other neighborhoods? Not uncommon that as a police officer that you will respond to businesses or residences when alarms go off and there's some other person who's not the owner who's looking out for the place. And that's you'll end up talking to. So you took this phone number and this message that Mr. McMichael gave you that day and you conveyed that to Mr. English, right? Yes, I did. One of Mark as an exhibit G and one of which was this to you, Officer Ramos, which still stays on. Before we read it, fellows, first you recognize it? I do. [11:57:48][167.2] [11:57:48] And you recognize it to be a screenshot of the text message I do from that is a screenshot of the text message from me to Larry English. All right. I tendered in evidence, Your Honor, objection to. And you say it's from your phone to Larry, but it is. And it starts at the top. Here's a clip from my Boink camera. That's from Larry King. That's you. Yes. OK, the part that's from you to him. I'm going to read it. You tell me if this is what you said to him. Your neighbor at two twenty nine satellite drive is Greg McMichael. You know, now that he lives to listen to the guy, right? Yes, sir. Greg is a retired law enforcement and also a retired investigator from the DA's office. Yes. He said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera. Yes, his number is. And then you gave his cell phone. That is correct. [11:59:06][78.1] [11:59:06] And this is dated to eleven twenty seven. Forty seven p.m. But the text of the top is 12. Twenty. So you have any idea when you actually sent that to him. Twelve. Twenty eight. Nine forty. That's when you said that to Larry English. Yes. The 211 is for the next clip. That's below the date. Pertinent to the text that you're sending to Greg MacMichael is the day that the top twelve twenty nineteen 940 a.m.. That's when you were talking to him in the yard. Yes. That's all I have. Officer Rash. Thank you, Mr. Monk. Get your. Good morning, Dormont. I'm Jessica Burton. I'm cocounsel. Ferrarotti Brian. I just have a couple of questions. The first one is you never spoke with Mr. Brian about any of the break ins or the deaths that were occurring at Mr. Englishes house. Is that correct? That is correct. OK, and you also never spoke with him in late twenty nineteen or early twenty twenty of all of the break ins. And that's going on in the neighborhood, is that correct? I don't called. OK, I don't think I have anything else but thank you Mrs. Sorcerous. There was no communication at all between you and Larry English between 12 twenty of nineteen and February 11th of twenty. Twenty. None that I recall. No text messages, no text messages. All right. And when you sent that text to very English, was it your intent to deputize Gregory Michael Jackson? Michael's never. Would you want them to be witnesses? Actually, the text was for Greg. My Michael, not for Travis, not Michael. For my Michael based his training and knowledge as a retired officer, retired investigator, to be a witness, to call 911, to tell us what he saw and direct us where we needed to. Because you had metrics at this point. I know. Well, no, ma'am. OK, and your intent the defense has characterized it as solving a crime. But if made contact with the now deceased homicide victim, your intent was to identify, you know, OK, then trespassing. And if that what Mr. Imus it's it's ultimately his decision. And it does happen. Some some homeowners, some business owners, they just say tell them to leave. I don't want to trespass and just tell him to leave and don't come back. And it's ultimately, Larry, Englishes decision, property owners decision, the property owners decision on this decision. OK, to say whether to actually give it formal trespass on this person. Correct. [12:02:34][208.4] [12:02:34] Or to just say, hey, officer, can you just tell me something about absolutely. You get knocked on Supai Lawrences door on October 25th. Twenty nineteen chancer. No, this review went over all the stuff inside the open unsecured construction site. It's OK. So there's that saw that. We see all that lumber, all that's just laying out totally unsecured. OK, the report, any of it stolen? No, ma'am. Not to my knowledge, ever reported his electronic stolen mail. To my knowledge, no one ever report any plumbing or fixtures stolen. Ever report the electrical or electronic stolen? No, ma'am, not to my knowledge. Ever report any tools stolen? No knowledge ever report that anybody's broken into that camper? No, ma'am. And a report that anything's been stolen off of that doc? No, ma'am. [12:03:52][78.2] [12:03:52] So. Well, for January 1st, twenty nineteen through February 23, twenty twenty where English never reported anything actually stolen at 220 children. Not to my knowledge. The you never even reported the cooler and the satellite system stoltmann didn't know me. OK, do you have any evidence about who stole that stuff? Never did any knowledge of where the boat was when the stuff was stolen. I do. What was about the boat was inside of the boat garage, RV, garage, whatever terminology he's calling comes in part. It's out of there. So you're understanding right now is that the stuff was stolen when it was parked there or that's how Mr. English discovered it when Mr. English called me, told me he discovered it, I was under the impression it was stolen from there. In no time did Mr. English ever tell me he takes a boat from that location anywhere else or had it been any other location. So I was under the impression it was stolen from that side based on the phone call where he called me. How many conversations you have about the stuff? Based on about one call, he called me on my off. They told me what he had. I said, if you need to, I'm not on duty. You need to call. Have the on duty officer come to the scene to report it. And he started talking about his insurance deductible. He didn't know if it was worth it. And he decided that there was never a report made. So I can only speculate he decided against it. All right. Do you remember when this off day was when he called to tell you he discovered his missing stuff? Don't remember the exact date. I like I said, my phone didn't keep record of the calls and only get record of the text. So you never had a follow up conversation with Larry English about what he thought had happened with the stuff and where the boat was at the time. He told me the boat was inside the garage. Now, that phone call we discussed the air conditioned HVAC contractors there. My theory was, if those two his theory, unless it's relevant something in the case, like we were talking about his understanding from Mr. English. So the state is going to go and ask you, what was your understanding about this? He had contractors there working. They were in and out of the house. He did not have video inside the house at that time. Contractors, air contractors carrying two boxes, boxes that have ductwork other items in and out very well possible. Those items could have been taken by the contractors, but nothing was ever seen. According to Mr. Inglis, there was no video footage of the contractors or anybody else taking any items from the house. He just. No, they were missing. All right. So is it fair to say that your understanding is that because these contractors can take big boxes in and out, they could hide these goods in it to take it? Absolutely. OK, you ever see Mr. Aubrey with any bags, backpacks or any way to steal anything out? I have never seen him do anything in his hands coming or going from the property on the videos that I have seen. So each time a story stops by to wander around inside the open unsecured construction site, he only stays for a few minutes that. All right. So when the defense characterizes this has gotten away, do you have any information that Mr. Aubrey has E.S.P and has some sort of ability to know the police are on the way? The name is called any police on him? [12:08:08][255.8] [12:08:02] OK, and how are you employed with the police department? Chief police officer? Yes. Well, yes, as a police officer, you get paid right? As a police officer, very little. But yes, So it's your job to respond to 911 calls, right? It is. That's why you get paid, right? Yes, ma'am. And they give you a uniform? Yes, ma'am. And equipment like the body cam, which is a patrol car. And so when the defense was asking you about use of force, you said something like, I am here, OK, as a law enforcement officer. Yes, as a law enforcement officer. Listen, the officer on the camera, is that how you were dressed as well? Yes. From green pants with a tan at that time. Our uniform was green blue pants, a khaki shirt, and I had an outer vest carrier at that point time. Was not a load bearing vest. It made it look like a more formal class looking uniform. But that outer carrier contained my body armor. Did you have identifiers showed that you you're a law enforcement officer? I had my badge. I had my name tag and no big words. I said police, but my uniform showed that I wore duty belt with all my good equipment in it. OK, so the first phase as the defense brought up to you saying I am here to law enforcement officers because you recognize as well as a law enforcement officer. That is correct. And then the next thing that Mr. Rubin brought up is do as I say, because I'm a law enforcement officer. Is that correct? Is OK easily identifiable as a law enforcement officer? And then I'm deployed as a law enforcement officer. I'm being paid for X. Yes. [12:10:08][126.6] [12:10:33] hat Mr. Overreduced never knew. He was walking slowly, walking to normal through the house. Now when there was talk to you about leaving in the same direction, like going down Jones Road, he described him as running, right? I believe so, yes. So when he leaves, this particular property is open, unsecured construction site, he leaves any direction, leaving. Describe what he does when he leaves the open unsecured construction site, Kolaric English. He leaves to the rooms, to the right towards the Jones. However, once again, to your knowledge, does he have any E.S.P or any way to know? Objection. [12:11:25][51.4] [12:11:25] Speculation's if there's no silly objections, I assistent. Do you have any information if this was Mr Armories routine, his routine routine, this is what he did. He went into this house, looked around for a few minutes, and then would continue his jog on Monday, objecting to mischaracterization. Such has no knowledge of him. John, stay. John, my personal knowledge, personal knowledge, don't you have any evidence whatsoever that a Montabaur ever saw anything from the open unsecured construction site? I do not that just out of order. I want to cross off probably kind of. Or that's my I. All right. I'm just a short recrossed to follow up on some question. Just ask to you on redirect. So you had to go to police school to become a police officer, right? I did. And in police school, you learn basic crimes, the elements of basic crimes, right? Yes. Including burglary. Yes. And you learn in police school that burglary al-fassi what he learned at school is relevant to their guilt or innocence. [12:13:46][141.3] [12:13:46] Absolutely no relevance. I need to defend that for you. We know what we're going to get into the law of burglary. It'll become completely clear if I have given some latitude to finish my question, have him answer it, concerns his investigation and it follows up on exactly what was just asked of him by the state about things he would have done had he been told, for example, by the owner to trespass out Mr Abbott if he caught, I'll give you some latitude, but I don't get into that. I don't mean much use latitude. But again, we're getting into definitions, so we have this many questions. [12:14:36][49.8] [12:14:35] So I just finished my statement. I'll give you a little bit of latitude here, but I think you understand that the court has already ruled a number of other times about defining crimes and all that. Yes, and I'm not getting into that area, I assure you. So you've been to police school. You learn you have to know some of the crimes. So you know what it is you're investigating and what you may be arresting someone for, right? Absolutely. And that's just basic police knowledge. Right? Yes. You don't need to know what a lawyer knows or what a judge knows. Do you know, sir? OK, you're out there in the field and you're trying to decide what do I charge this guy with if you catch somebody doing a thing? Right. Absolutely. OK, so you know that the basics of burglary, how to arrest for relevancy and outside the scope of redirect, that's the same objection. We just have not asked for a little latitude. And once we get past, this will be bench again. Give you some room here. I don't need much. So you understood burglary from police school to be the entering the dwelling with the intent to commit a felony they're in. Yeah. And you understood, Larry English it house to be a dwelling. Yes. You understood the items. Expensive items up to twenty five hundred dollars worth of stuff you've been told had been taken from that house, right. Yes. And the taker of that stuff didn't have permission from Mr English to take it right. That is correct. So you as a police officer, that would be the basis for a burglary, right. It was not stolen from the dwelling that was stolen out of a boat that was parked in the we in. And you would know that to be in there. Yeah, right. OK. [12:16:39][124.1] [12:16:39] And so as a state asked you if you had caught this robbery at some point and if I didn't ask that, that's speculation. And I simply did not. That speculation, if I may remind the court before ruling the state asked the officer if you had confronted Courteney's Starbury and then spoke to Mr English and he wanted to trespass out. It was the phrase he used. What would you have done? It was a hypothetical. I'm asking you the same thing. That's what I said. Not at all to ask indicated what he was going to do if he was able to identify the individual on the video. Yeah, he was going to do what the homeowner wanted him to do. That was the question of Mr English wanted you to trespass out this person. Have you been able to speak to him? He was asked by the state, what would you have done? And he he's the jury. I would have told you don't come back over here. He was explaining his regular practice. That's right. And that's where I'm headed. I've got one more question, but that's what they asked. I brought back to that. And now I want to ask my question, to ask the question and we'll see what the question is when I'm reorienting Mr. Officer Rajesh to what he'd been asked. We're past that. Just go and answer your question. You said you've got one more question. First of all, let's see what the question is. OK, well, are you with me, Officer Rash? So far, you know where we are in this cross-examination? I believe so. I'm a little lost here, but the back off. OK, well, I want to get him back to where I am so I can ask my final question if I can get it out. So when you were asked about trespassing out somebody, you use that phrase I heard that referred to that way before. That's where a homeowner would tell you, hey, if you catch the guy and the homeowner wants you to just tell and don't come back over here anymore, that's what you would do, right? Absolutely. Now, isn't it also true if you catch the guy and the homeowner says, well, he may be the burglar burglar, would you invest to get it further for me? You would do that, too, wouldn't you? At that point, I'm there not have been a crime reported. There was no report made by Mr English of a burglary as residents. So telling you that things have been stolen and I'd like you to investigate it, you would say, well, you got to file a formal report and then we'll investigate. Yes. And that means for you, if that had been done, get the person's name and address, right? Yes. [12:19:38][178.9] [12:19:38] And then either you or someone would then investigate to see if they could find the cooler, the per unit and the Lorraine Fish finder for Mr English. Right. I was not on duty today that he called had Mr English called the police department and made a formal report. F weeks later, I would have had come in contact with Mr Aubry and identified him. Then I would notify the whichever officer took that report and say I have identified this male. Here is his name that officered that himself. Or it may have been handed off to our side the criminal investigation division. One of them would have followed up and looked into that myself. That was not the being. I would not the officer who took that report, I would not be the one following doing that. And I'm not suggesting you would have been the one to go out and invest the burglary, but some investigator would have in the normal course of things. Right. An officer and or an investigator? [12:20:49][70.9] [12:20:49] Yes. And trying to find out what happened and where his stuff was. Oh, yes. Thank you, sir. You're really quite right, because I think you may step down. I believe you are released for the day, but still subject to recall. Thank you. So I'm all tied up in my court. Ladies, gentlemen, we're at the point. We're going to break for lunch during the lunch recess. Again, do not discuss the case among yourselves. Enjoy your lunch. It is. It's like twenty past. We'll plan on reconvening at one twenty. Enjoy lunch within an hour. [12:21:47][58.2] [12:21:47] All right. I think from the state for your recess for lunch. No, but our missing witness has appeared in a sacred trust. Trust me, no matter much you know, you are not an hour. We'll reconvene at 120. Thank you. [12:21:47][0.0] [13:23:07] We are back on Sundays present represented by Counsel Olivia Movement going on. But I think we're good. I'm said the state is ready to proceed with the next witness. It's ready to make sure we move in the Skinner body. They're supposed to get in. Yeah, it's good. [13:23:34][27.8] [13:23:34] It's good [13:24:50][76.0] [13:25:26] For the welcome back. Hopefully everybody did enjoy their lunch. We are ready to proceed with the evidence in the case for everybody's attention. Stay ready to proceed. Yes, it is time to say calls. [13:25:45][19.5] [13:25:45] Agent Adjacency Kresse Agent Jason Press to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth will. Good afternoon and good afternoon. Go ahead and introduce yourself to the jury, tell them your name and spell it for the court. Reporter. My name is Jason Seacrest S.P.C.A.. S.R. I. S t. And how are you employed? I'm an assistant special agent in charge at the Georgia Bureau Investigation. OK, and what is the Georgia Bureau of Investigations? The GBI is a state law enforcement agency that's primarily tasked with assisting local law enforcement or other law enforcement agencies in criminal investigations. [13:26:55][69.7] [13:26:55] And as the GBI made up of like two different sections, the crime lab and the investigative division, that's correct. There are actually four divisions in the GBI, two of which are the investigative division and the partner division of forensic science. OK, so what's the difference between those two divisions? Just briefly, the investigative division is tasked with doing exactly what it sounds like, which is conduct the actual criminal investigation. Part of that would be conducting interviews or that would be collecting evidence. And once those those items are done, then they are turned over. Evidence is turned over to the division of forensic science for actual scientific testing. OK, and where is the headquarters located? In Atlanta, Georgia. OK, now, other than the headquarters, are there various regions with different offices? Yes, ma'am. The investigative division is divvied up into fifteen regional field offices that each cover. Generally speaking, about ten counties. OK, and which region are you assigned to? I'm assigned to the region for field office in Douglas, Georgia. [13:28:06][71.1] [13:28:06] We cover 11 counties. And how long have you been with the GBI? Approximately two years. Any previous law enforcement experience? No, ma'am. OK, now, what are your primary duties in your position? There was GBI currently. I'm a supervisor out of our office. Our office has five field agents to crime scene specialists. Office manager. I am again the assistant special agent in charge. And then the special agent in charge is the the top supervisor in the office. And our you certified. Yes, ma'am, I am. What does that mean? So post for the peace officer standards and Training Counsel. [13:28:44][38.4] [13:28:44] They're the ones that establish the credentials for becoming a police officer in the state of Georgia. Being certified means that you have completed the what's known as the police academy. And then every year after that, you've also completed additional training to maintain your certification. And as a post certified agent with the GBI, do you have arrest powers under Georgia law? Yes, I do. OK, now I want to turn your attention to the investigation into the death of someone by the name of Ahmad Arborio. Are you familiar with that investigation? Yes. When did you become involved in that investigation? At some point, yes, I did. How did you become involved on the morning of May six of twenty twenty? I received a phone call from one of our command staff. She advised that I was being tasked to assist the regional office in Queensland to end in the investigation into the death of the model are very OK now. Where are you being assigned the lead role in that investigation? [13:29:45][61.2] [13:29:45] OK, do you know who was assigned a lead role in that investigation? Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Doyle. OK, and you said you became involved on May six. Twenty twenty. That's correct. OK, so at the point where you got the call, what did you do? I pack my bags and I came over to Queensland and I got the call about nine o'clock in the morning. And I arrived at the king's office at about twelve thirty. OK, now what were your duties as it pertains to the investigation itself? Primarily was just to assist Asagai with whatever investigative leads were need to be followed. Eventually it culminated primarily the two tracks of the investigations, one being Mr Roddy Bryan and one being Mr Larry English. And then, of course, with other miscellaneous, I would say, interviews lead follow up as they occurred. [13:30:39][54.2] [13:30:39] OK, so when you essentially got to Agent Dial, where you briefed on the investigation thus far? Yes, ma'am, I was OK. And was that from Agent Dial. It was it was from Agent Dial. And as we were beginning to review the investigative work that had already occurred. OK, now, were you given the file of Glynn County Police Department? Yes, we were. OK, are you familiar with the term neighborhood, Kansas? Yes, ma'am. Can you tell us what that is? A neighborhood canvass is where you go to an area where a crime has occurred and you knock on every door that you can find in that area, trying to identify additional witnesses or people who had additional information regarding the incident. [13:31:25][46.0] [13:31:24] OK, and to your knowledge, the GBI agents in this case do neighborhood canvasses? That's correct. OK, are you familiar with the neighborhood by the name of Fancy Bloss? Yes, ma'am, I am. And what's that neighborhood? A part of the canvasing in this case. Where is fancy bluff located in proximity to satellite shores. It is directly across Highway Seventeen, probably within a mile or two of where the incident occurred. OK, now, did you participate particularly in any of that neighborhood canvass? Not in the blanket neighborhood canvass, but I participated as it came to specific residences nearby in those areas. Worried about identified that we needed to do interviews. OK, do you remember when you started doing interviews? Like what date it was on May seven? [13:31:24][0.0] [13:32:15] OK, now do you recall a couple by the name of Diego Perez and Brooke Perez? Yes, ma'am, I do. OK, how do you know that they were living in the neighborhood of Sutil assures? I believe they were a couple of residences away from Mr Englishes property. OK, and did you interview them in this case? Yes, ma'am. Do you remember when you interviewed them? It would have been when they said, OK, are you familiar with a couple by the name of Danielle Studdard? And her not stuttered, but Stoddard and her husband, James Stoddard? Yes. OK, how are you familiar with them? Again, there was an interview that was done at their residence. OK, when did you do that interview? It was also when they said, OK, and are you familiar with a person by the name of Matthew Albon? Say, Yes, ma'am. How are you familiar with him? Mr Elvin's I was the one who contacted the non-emergency line on the day of the incident and he lived to Jones right now. I interviewed him. They are participating in to be OK. And is that what neighborhood was that is located in the shorts and the Stoddard's. Do you recall where they lived. It was the fancy bluff area. OK, now did you you mentioned before that a part of your role in the in the investigation was that track of William Rodhe? Brian? That's correct. At some point, did you interview Mr Brian? Yes, pretty much. Do you remember how many times you interviewed him? There were two formal interviews when I would call for interviews. OK, and when was the first one? The first one was on May 11 of what year? 2001. Was that where was that interview? Where did that happen? Where did it occur? It occurred to the regional office and I believe its conservation way here in Brunswick. It's one in six. So was that interview recorded? Yes, ma'am. It was that video and audio that was on the audio recording. OK, all right. And did you receive that recording before coming to court today? Did you read the whole thing that you also review a transcript of that recording? Yes. OK, and was the transcript accurate as it pertains to what actually happened in the recording? It was at this time we went ten years states, one ninety six and one ninety six, eight six is the transcript. Yes, On this subject, we don't just thank you now agency press. If you were to see Mr Bryan in court, would you be able to recognize them. Yes. OK, you see him in court today. Can you please point them out and describe please, where he is sitting with the far right at the defense table in a blue jacket? Looks like a green shirt, Alexis. OK, let the record reflect that. He has identified William Bryan. May I approach? Thank you both. So agency Chris, I'm showing you what's been admitted as one ninety six a V recognize one ninety six. Yes, ma'am. OK, what is it. This is a transcript from on May 11, 2012, the interview with Mr Brown. OK, now it was Mr Bryan under arrest at the time of this interview. Say, was he detained in any way? No, he was Mr Ryan handcuffed at all? No. OK, do you recall how he got to the interview location? He drove himself. OK, and was anyone else present during the interview? During the interview, his attorney, Mr Kevin Gough present, and another guy by the name of Larry Kelly was present for a brief portion. [13:36:32][257.2] [13:36:32] OK, and do you remember what time it was when you interviewed him? I was middle of the afternoon, maybe two o'clock hour. OK, when looking at the transcript, help refresh, refresh your recollection. I'm sorry. Three forty. Feel OK now? Did you promise Mr Brian that he would get anything of benefit from talking to, you know, that? Did you promise him that he wouldn't be charged with a crime if he spoke with, you know, OK, did you promise him he would get some kind of lesser sentence or plea deal or anything like that if he spoke with you? Ma'am, did you make any promises to his attorney, Mr Goff, as it related to his client getting any kind of benefit from speaking to you? Did you threaten Mr Brian in any way to talk to you? I did not. Now, did you actually explain to Mr Brian, even as his attorney there, that he didn't have to talk to you? Yes, I did. OK, and did you ask him if he understood that? I did. And what was his response? Indicated that he did. What, if anything, did you tell Mr Brian about leaving after the interview? I advised Mr Brian that when the interview was completed, he would be able to go wherever he wanted to go. He would be free to leave, OK, and that he acknowledged that he understood that? Yes, ma'am, we did. Did Mr Brian appear to be under the influence of any drugs or alcohol during the interview? Did he appear to understand what was going on? Yes, he did. OK, and did you in fact, specifically ask him if he's under the influence of anything? And what did he say? He said he was not OK. Were there any limitations imposed on the May 11th interview? There was. And by whom? Mr Gill. OK, and what was that limitation? The limitation on this interview was that we would only discuss things pertaining to what happened from the time he left the police department on February. Twenty third up to the current time. OK, current day, me being May 11, the day of the interview. Yes. OK, so nothing about the incident or before that. That's correct. OK, now during the interview, how long was the interview, do you remember. Just like a ballpark. I would say probably about an hour and a half. OK, so during that time did a few questions come up that may have gone over those limitations? They did. OK, and did you receive permission to still delve into those areas? Yes, ma'am, I did. OK, so let's talk about the statements that Mr Brian made to OK. Did you ask Mr Brian whether he knew Greg MacMichael? Just me. OK, and what did he say? He indicated that he knew him from the neighborhood and from his work at the hardware store. OK, who was work at the hardware store? Mr Bryant. Work at a hardware store. OK, and did you ask him if he knew Travis Michael. Yes, ma'am. And what did he say? He said he did not. OK, now where did Mr Brian say he lived at three zero seven four four drawers in such a short space. And how long did he say he lived at that location prior to February? Twenty third. Twenty twenty. He lived there approximately three years. Three years. Did he at any time mention anything about purchasing that home? Yes. What did he say? He said he had just bought the house approximately two weeks before the incident. OK, so two weeks before February 2013. Twenty twenty. He had just purchased. That's correct. OK, now according to Mr Bryan's statement, did Mr Brian say that he could see the victim's hands as the victim was running during the chain reaction? Your Honor, we're going to be referring, we understood from the pretrial order to the man's name, not a and I make no specific ruling on it. I did ask the state was to use terminology that was not to just use terminology that didn't over and over again, over and over again. That's what I understood from. Yes. So, again, I didn't know the police state court could limit how many times I say it before. Yes, sir. I will do my best to sit here. So agency Chris, according to Mr Bryant's interview, did he talk about whether he was able to see Ahmad's hands during this case? Yes. OK, and what did he say about that? You could see his hands. They were out. He appeared to be to not be holding anything. OK, and I want to turn your attention to page seventy six of the transcript beginning at line 21. And if you can just read that to the jury, that would be great. Thank you. To which one. Seventy six line twenty one through twenty five. OK, words hands out like like normal running running like running arms like moving back and forth before. Were they in his pockets or do you remember Mr Ryan responded. No, no, no they were out. OK now did Mr Brian ever see a gun or other weapon in the victim's hands during the chase. That all he did not. OK, and did you speak with Mr Brian about any thefts in the neighborhood? Right before the incident happened? I did. OK, did you speak with him about thefts while he was living in Sattell assures me. OK, and did he say he had anything stolen from him while he was living? There he goes. OK, now I want to turn your attention to Page eighty four lines. Twenty three on to eighty five. Line ten. If you can just read that please. Mr Brown said, I mean the main thing was the trailer. It was six to eight by ten. Six by ten. I think trailer behind the truck that went missing. Then I'd have to clarify with some other well the brother law of what went missing out the back of his truck one night. But it was beer or something. I don't remember something petty. The trailer never did report thank. [13:43:15][403.3] [13:43:16] You. Have it locked up. And I was not sure when it went missing within a timeframe of about a month. But now we're talking last year I asked. Twenty nineteen, Mr Brown responded. Yeah, man, I'm talking. I mean, it's been almost a year now. OK, so he had a trailer stolen from his residence from the yard somewhere. That's correct. And that was in 2009. Yes. And he said he never reported it to the police. That's correct. OK, and he also mentioned about a brother in law. Yes. Who had some petty things stolen from how he characterized it. That's correct. OK, other than that, the Mr. Brian have any other specific thefts that occurred from his residence around that time? No more. Now, did Mr Brian mentioned about knowing about any kind of burglaries in the neighborhood, meaning breaking into houses? No. OK, did you speak with him about knowing a man before that day? Yes. What did he say? Did he know him? He did not know. OK, had he ever heard his name before? OK, so never met him. Nepotism? No. Did you speak with Mr Brian about knowing the owner of the two twenty satellite drives construction site? Yes. OK, and who was the owner of that site? Mr Larry English. And what did Mr Brian say about knowing Mr English? And I'm going to turn your attention to page ninety five lines. Twenty three twenty four. If you can read that. I asked Do you know Larry English. Mr Brian responded, No, not at all. And I said, the guy that owns the house that's under construction out there is you're going out. Mr Brian responded. No, I didn't know who owned it. OK, so he had never spoken with Mr English? That's correct. OK, now did you speak with Brian regarding hearing from other neighbors who lived in Seattle, a source about thefts? Yes. OK, and what did he say about hearing about thefts? And I'm going to point you to page ninety six lines eleven through thirteen and then sixteen through twenty three. So first eleven through thirteen. I said, OK, have you had any other neighbors talk to you about thefts in the area or issues? Mr Ron said, I mean, not neighbors talking to me. And then I went within the last year and a half, let's say a year and a half or two years. So let's say let's go back to the beginning of 2019. How about that? Mr Brian responded, not neighbors talking to me a couple of times that came into the shop and say, you know, man, something else went missing. They didn't say who it was, them or what. But, you know, stuff has been going missing in the neighborhood. OK, And that's why I'm twenty three. Right. OK, now, during the course of the interview that you come to find out that Mr Brian had surveillance cameras up at his property. Yes, ma'am. OK, and then those cameras face towards the front of the neighborhood meeting bought Burford Road just now. Did he say it was OK for you to come by his house and search those cameras and the footage? OK, and what did you do after he said it was OK to do that? I believe I got a chance. OK, now, was his attorney present for that discussion when when you asked him for consent? Yes. OK, so after he told you that you could do that, did you go by the house after the conclusion of the interview? We did. OK, and who was present for that meeting at the house? Of course, Mr Brian, Mr Gough, myself, Agent Kelly. And I believe also Mr Bryant's fiancee at the time was in the room. OK, and were you guys able to download anything on that day? Not that time. We were there, no. OK, why not? [13:47:32][255.9] [659.1] [13:47:32] I believe there was. There was from a writer's password issues and also Internet speed issues that were holding us back for me that we get the video. OK, so between you and Agent Kelly, who's the tech person? Agent Kelly. Agent Kelly. OK, so is that why Agent Kelly was there? Was he absolutely OK at some point later on, were you all able to download that surveillance footage? OK, now did you also follow up with Mr Brian about his cell phone and getting consent to search that cell phone? Yes, ma'am. OK, and did you get a form? Did you get him to sign like a consent form for that? I believe I did. Yes. Yes, yes. So agency press, I'm showing you what's been marked for identification purposes as state's Exhibit 197. If you can look at it and tell me if you recognize this man, OK, what is this? This is the waiver of constitutional rights to a search warrant of an electronic personal device. OK, and is it the form that you had Mr Brian signed on May 11th? It was cases it seemed to be altered in any way at this time. We tend to states that one nine eight one nine seven no case subject. Thank you. Permission to publish. Thank you. So agency press. I'm just going to have to you. Are you able to see what's protected enough to read. OK, try this. This is OK. If you can just start from the top that would be great. OK, so if you can just read from here on. Come on. The waiver of constitutional rights to a search warrant of an electronic cellular device, I, William Arthur, Brian Jr, having been informed of my constitutional right not to have a search and seizure made of my electronic cellular device without a search warrant and of my right to refuse to consent to such as search and seizure, I hereby authorize Jason Seacrest and Larry Kelly of the GBI to use an extraction device to obtain information from my electronic cellular device, including, but not limited to any and all information, data files, memory cards, photographs, videos, text messages, GPS locations, website information, emails, contact numbers, incoming and outgoing phone calls currently located on the below described device. IPhone eight Model M. Q six V two l l a. I'm giving this written permission to the above named investigator voluntarily and without threats or promises. Of any kind. I understand that any information derived from this evidence as a result of my consent to this search and seizure without a search warrant can and may be used as evidence against me in any court of law. I also have been provided contact information from the above stated investigator in order for me to withdraw my consent at any time. It is signed by Mr. Brian. His name is printed below that. The time and date is written is May 11, 2020 at three fifty four p.m. and his signature is that that is mine. I believe that Agent Kelly is OK and that you go over this form with Mr. Brian the he signed it and then he appeared to understand it. Yes, me. Now, after the May 11 interview, did Mr. Brian leave freely. Yes we we did. OK, and what did you do with this form? Did you contact another agent to get the phone extracted? Yes. You OK? And what's an extraction? Just briefly, we use a device that actually plugs into the phone and just downloads all the information from the phone. It can also include not just information currently on the phone, but if information has been deleted from the phone, we could sometimes get that information. So it gives us all the content off the phone. Now, during that May 11th interview with Mr. Brian, what, if anything, did you tell him about him? Being a witness? In my initial conversation with Mr. Brian, identified him as as a witness. As it goes, it starts off right now. I said that we had a lot of investigative work to do and that we had additional questions that we needed specifics on and that that would be the course of the investigation. OK, and then you proceeded to have two separate interviews with Mr. Brian to separate, sit down, interview, sit down interviews. OK, and did you also do like a reenactment video? Yes. At some point we did. OK, and was that around the city of source neighborhood? It was OK. Now, going to your second interview with him, what date was that? Or May 13th, 2001. OK, and where was that? Where was the location of that interview that was in the same location at the corner office conservation line in Brunswick. OK, and was that video was that interview also recorded? Yes, it was. Have you reviewed that recording in anticipation for your testimony today? So when you reviewed the recording agency Seacrest, was it fair and accurate copy of the recording of the video you did, the interview you did with Mr. Bryan? Yes, it was OK. And in conjunction with that, did you also review a transcript? I did OK. And did the transcript match up with the interview I did with them? Yes. OK, any alterations or deletions? OK, I'm gonna show you this one. Ninety A for identification purposes. Tell me if you recognize that. What is this. This is the transcript from the interview with Mr. Bryan on May 13, 2001. OK, Your Honor, at this time we tend to stay 198 and 198 subjects subject to objection to this whole. So same questions about this interview. Was he under arrest? Says Mr. Bryant, under arrest at that time when you interviewed him on a certain moment, was he in handcuffs in any way? He was not detained in any way. Who else was present? If anyone knew Mr. OK and how did he get to the location on his own? OK, now remember what time it was when you interviewed him on May 13th? I believe that was the two o'clock hour. It was two o'clock. OK, if I were to show you a copy of your report that you did to summarize that, would that refresh recollection? Would we have more for the record which which summary before is the I am showing you what's been marked just by this situation. As for twelve states to submit for twelve, look at it and tell me if you know what that is. Yes. What is it? This is my report that I wrote regarding my interview with Mr. Brian on May 13, 2020. OK, just look at it sound. At least here to yourself and tell me if that refreshes your recollection about the time of the story. It does. OK, what time was two? Thirty five p.m.. OK, thank you. I'll take that. OK, so did you promise him anything during that interview. Did you make any threats towards him or force him into any interview with you. OK, and did you make any promises to Mr. Goff, his attorney. No. OK, now did Mr. Brian appear to be under the influence of any drugs or alcohol? OK, did you explain to Mr. O'Brien that he didn't have to talk to you? I did. And did he appear to understand that? Yes. Maybe be case. And did he still go ahead and proceed with the interview? Yes. OK, so let's get into some of his statements. What did Mr. Brian say he was doing on the day of the incident when he noticed something was going on? He was doing some work on his front porch. OK, and what did he say? Caught his attention, someone running and the sound of a vehicle injured. OK, and did Mr. Brian say that he was listening to music or something like that? He did. He was listening to music in his garage, which was on the opposite end of the house from where he was working outside. OK, but he could still hear a vehicle engine coming by. That's correct. OK, and he said he saw somebody running as well. Yes. OK. Now, did he say he knew what was going on? At that time? You do know. OK, I'm going to direct your attention to page seven lines. Twenty four into page eight. Line six. And if you could just read that, please, Mr. Brunson. And for whatever reason, I don't. Well, I mean, at that point I was like, OK, well, he's chasing him in the truck, whoever's in the truck, you know? And I'm figuring I don't know. I don't know what's going on at that point, but I'm figuring something's wrong and I'm not really loud. But I said, you got him. You need help, something like that. Nobody could hear me, though. I'm sure. OK, and what if Mr. Brian do after that, he walked over and grabbed his keys. OK, and where were his keys? Or in his kitchen, which he accessed through his door in the garage. OK, did you ask Mr. Brian what made him grab his keys? I did. And what did he say? I'm going to direct you to page eight. Line twenty one into page nine, line to. I asked, and why were you going back to your trunk? Why were you grabbing your keys? Mr. Brian responded, I guess just to go see what was going on. If anything needed to be done, if I could help. But whatever, I mean, I. I didn't know. I mean, to be honest with you, I don't know what I was doing. OK, so he said he wanted to know if he could help. That's correct. OK, and I'm going to direct your attention to page thirteen lines eighteen through twenty five. I asked what was it that made you decide I need to go get my keys and get in my truck and see what's going on. Mr. Brian responded, I really don't know if I said OK. And then Mr. Brian said, I, I, I can't answer that. I just, I don't know. It just, you know, I'm thinking from my mind that maybe he's done something. The guy running and I just I don't know, OK, And when he left his house, did he have a cell phone on it? Yes, ma'am, we did. OK, and what, if anything, did Mr. Brian say about recognize send the truck in question if you can just read page nine, lines three, Morty's three, three forty three or four things I said. OK, now, real quick, just going to go back. You said you recognized the truck. Mr. Brian said, oh, I said, where did you recognize. How did you why did you recognize the. Mr. Brian responded, I mean I've seen it in the neighborhood. I mean at that time I didn't know exactly why really. I recognized it. I said, OK, Mr. Ryan said I didn't know from what house or if it had, you know, just being in the neighborhood, driving around. I didn't really put it together until afterwards. Did Mr. Brian ever say that he heard a mod say anything during the chase? He never heard Multiphasic. OK, and then Mr. Brian ever mentioned trying to slow down a mob during the chase. It's OK. I want to direct you to page thirty three. Line sixteen to page thirty. Four, line two. If you can just read that Mr. Ryan stated, I figured if I slowed him down and got a picture that maybe something would happen in the end other than just him getting away and cops not knowing who he was. I say I said so. So then that kind of makes me want to ask why did the cops need to know? Mr. Ryan replied, Because I figured he had done something wrong. I didn't know for sure. I stated, OK, what made you think he had done. He might have done something wrong, Mr. Brown responded. It was just instinct, man. I don't know. OK, so he figured the victim had done something wrong and it was just instinct that told him that. Yes, that that's what he said. Now, did did Mr. Brian say that he felt the victim needed to stop running? Yes, ma'am. I've lost track. How many times we've used the word victim here? That's the whole point. The jury's going to decide who the victim is here. I can rephrase that. The court has not banned the use of any words in this court. And what I had given the facts of this case and the positions of the parties, I've asked the lawyer simply to use various terms. The witness can use whatever term he wants and that's what's going on here. So if the state could refer to Mr. Aubrey as a strawberry and move on from there. Yes, Now, Agent Seacrest, did Mr. Brian say he felt Mr. Aubrey needed to stop running? Yes, ma'am. OK, and why did he feel that? Can you read page thirty seven, line five through 10? Mr. Ryan stated. Yeah, I just I figured he stole something I didn't know. Get shot. Somebody. I didn't I didn't know what was up. So I asked Mr. Brian, had you heard any gunshots or anything like that. Mr. Brian responded, No. OK, so Mr. Brian said that he figured a mob had shot somebody. Yes, ma'am. Again, for class and answer second, I object of characterization. Mr. Seacrest has already given his testimony about what was said word for word. And I object to the characterization after the fact by the prosecution says, yes, sir. I said again, listen, General, what the lawyer's asking questions is not testimony. Testimony comes from witness stand. It's just a good answer to this question. Did you ask Mr. Brian whether he ever said anything to a man when he was chasing? Yes. OK, did he say he said anything to a man? No, ma'am. OK, what, if anything, did Mr. Brian tell Ahmad regarding Koeneke he needed to stop running? He didn't say, OK, what, if anything, did Mr. Brian tell a mod about wanting to talk to him? Mr. What, if anything, did Mr. Brian tell the Mod about wanting to arrest him for anything? Mr. Braun didn't say anything. Now then, Mr. Brian, never say anything about Ahmad turning to look at him right before he was shot and killed. Yes, OK. And I want to turn your attention to page sixty three lines, two through eight. I'm sorry, line twelve, lines twelve 318. If you read this, Mr. Ryan stated, I think I remember seeing Ahmad turn around and look towards me, you know, pulling up or either almost hold. No, I can't quite stop yet. I'm still back in good ways I believe. Yeah, I'm still back a good ways. And then he runs around the right side, a right hand side of the truck. And I figured at this point he's going to cut the corner and go out on the drive. Is that what it's called? OK, and at the point where a mod is near the second truck, did Mr. Brian ever hear a mod say anything? You know, so he'd never heard him make any threats or anything like that. He did not. Did you ever ask Mr. Brian if he saw a mod drop anything from his hands during the chase? I did. OK, and what did he say? He said he didn't seem drop anything. Now, I want to talk to you about your conversation with Mr. Brian pertaining to Larry Englishes construction site. OK, did you ask him if he had seen any of the videos I did from that construction site? And what did he say? He said he had not seen any of the videos. OK, did you ask him if he even knew if the videos existed? And what did he say? He didn't know anything about videos. OK, now, during the course of your investigation, did you learn that Sutil assures that the neighbors would communicate with each other on like a Facebook page? I did. OK, did you ask Mr. Brian about his knowledge of that Facebook page? Yes. And what did he say? He was not a member who was not familiar with that Facebook page. OK, now, did you follow up with Mr. Brian about his knowledge of thefts in Seattle? Assures around that time a died? I do. OK, and I want to turn your attention to page eighty five lines twenty one into page eighty six. Line twenty one. I asked, OK, so just to get a clear picture, the only specific threat thefts at the time of this event that you knew about from what you told me or your trailer, Mr. Brian responded, Oh, no. I stated your your brother in law some stuff out of the bed of your brother in law's truck. Mr. Bryan responded of I stated. Anything else specific? Mr. Bryan said, specific? No, I had heard that there had been some. And I say I stated that's just in general. And Mr. Bryan said in general, I asked, but no real specific incidents. Mr. Bryan said nothing. You know what was stolen, what houseware. When I asked when it happened, Mr. Bryan said no. I said what was, you know, none. Nothing. Mr. Bryan said no. I said only that, hey, there's some folks doing some things when talk about break ins. What are you talking about? People going into houses, busting windows, Mr. Bryan responded, I think I heard a car. I said, car. OK, Mr. Bryan responded something about a car one time. OK, so you heard about a car one time? Yes, ma'am. OK, had he heard about any descriptions of the person who was allegedly responsible person or persons for any of this stuff? OK, so he didn't know if it was a black person, white person, Asian person, nothing you do not know. OK, now, did you find out during the course of your interview with him that Mr. Brian also had a Facebook account? I did. OK, and did you ask for his consent to look at that Facebook account? Yes, ma'am. And was that when his attorney was still present? Yes, ma'am. And did what it Mr. Brian, he was willing to allow me to download his Facebook account, but the account was deactivated at the time. So we've reactivated it so that we could. So you reactivate it so that you can download it? That's correct. OK, and did that download happen? Yes. OK, now, after the interview concluded, was that your last time talking to him? No. OK, when was the next time? Immediately after this interview was when we did the drive route. OK, and when you say the drive through where drive thru in which neighborhood. So we did a drive through reenactment of the February twenty third institutions. OK, and was that Mr. Bryant's route that pertained to his route. It was OK and do you remember about what time you all went out there like was it still light outside. It was OK. And who all was present in the vehicle at the time? Was it myself, Mr. Bryant, his attorney, Mr. Golf, and also another GBI agent, special agent in charge, James Steinberg. OK, and was that recording? Yes, ma'am. Manufacturer? Yes. Now, Agent Seacrest, were you able to review that recording prior to coming into court today? Yes. And was it fair and accurate? It was. OK. Did you also review a transcript of that recording? I did. Was that transcript fair and accurate? OK, I'm going to show you what's been marked for the purpose of identification as states one nine nine eight. Can you look at it and tell me what it is? Yes, ma'am. This is the transcript from the reenactment with Mr. Bryan on May 13, 2020. OK, when you reviewed it, was were there any alterations or anything like that? OK, at this time we would tender states one ninety nine and one ninety nine self-expression. No, hold on. Now, before, before you hit record there in that kind of reenactment, did anything happen in terms of any kind of preliminary Dreiser judgment? OK, tell us what happened. Mr. Ryan was having difficulty remembering the exact path of travel. So there was kind of a, I guess, a familiarization ride through to kind of get directly down to what the path of travel was before we actually recorded the reenactment. OK, but at any time, did you tell Mr. Brian what to say? Not at all. OK, now, during your interviews with Mr. Brian that you learn from him that the police found some smudge on his truck. Yes, ma'am. OK, and did you also learn that those smudges had been lifted from his truck? Yes, ma'am. OK, did you speak with Mr. Brian about getting fingerprints from him? Yes, ma'am. And why do you get fingerprints from people who are known to use whatever the item is that has the the the fingerprints on it to get what we call elimination prints so that we can compare those to see if they're the person that the property belongs to or not. OK, and that he agreed to give you fingerprints for that purpose. Yes, ma'am. OK, and did he consult with his attorney before agreeing with that assessment? Did you also speak with Amy Elrod about that? Yes, ma'am. And did she agree to give fingerprints as well? She did. OK, and was that for the same purpose? It was OK. So at some point, did you meet with both of them? Yes, ma'am. When was the day? Today. On May 14th. OK, and what happened when you met with them on that day? I met them at the hospital parking lot and we rode to the Lincoln jail where a jailer was able to take their fingerprints, and then I took them back to the vehicle. OK, so just to be clear, were they under arrest when they went to that jail and it was just for the purpose of fingerprinting them? That's correct. That was all preplanned as far as, you know, the logistics of how that would happen. OK, now, at some point during the course of your investigation, did you ask Mr. Ryan for consent to download the computer system in his truck? Yes, ma'am, I did. OK, and what happened? Did he give consent? He did OK. What, if anything, were you able to find nothing that was pertinent to this investigation? OK, and why was that? So the computers in your vehicles only store certain information for for a brief period of time. So most of the data that was relevant to February had already been overridden by May. Are you familiar with a person by the name of Larry English? Yes, ma'am. OK, and how are you familiar with Mr. English? He's the owner of the house that was under construction when Mr. Aubury received the videos. OK, during the course of this investigation, did you meet with Mr. English? Yes, ma'am. Do you remember where that meeting happened? Oh, that meeting happened at his residence in Michaele's, Georgia, which is in Coffee County. OK, and what was the purpose of that meeting? The purpose of the meeting was to get his statement regarding the investigation, what had occurred, especially to find additional videos that we had seen floating around and to give more context around his involvement in the and what led up to Mr. Brown's death. OK, I want to turn your attention to May 21st, 2020, OK? Was there anything noteworthy that happened on that day in terms of the investigation? Mr. Brown was arrested. OK, and any other warrants? We did a search warrant of his house and we also did a search warrant of his phone. OK, and where you present for that search warrant? Execution on his house. I was where other agents also processed at the time. You interviewed Mr. Brian on May 11th and May 13th. Had the video already surfaced, the video of this incident? Yes. OK, and had the McMichaels had warrants already been signed for their arrests? Yes. OK, now, during the course of the your investigation, did you learn that Mr. Brian had given previous statements to officers from Glynn County PD? Yes, ma'am. And in preparation for your interview on May 11th, May 13th, did you review those statements? I did. OK, and since those interviews may 20/20, have you reviewed those statements? Yes, ma'am. I have. 141822 COUNSEL>> What, if anything, did you notice in Mr. Bryan statements to the Glenn County Police Department as it compared to his statements to you? 141834 WITNESS>> His statements to the Glenn County Police Department were more direct in his involvement to corral and box in Mr. Arbery during the event. His statements to me minimized his involvement in that process that led to Mr. Arbery's death. [14:18:48] So we'll just talk about a few instances of that. OK, where you able to review the transcripts of those statements given to Officer Minshew and Detective Larry? Yes, ma'am. The action here, I'm not sure where the state is going. Is this prosecutor about to ask a witness for his opinions about what other witnesses were told she could be getting his opinions to the jury about whether he thinks one statement and another statement is that? Or is he testifying about what he knows? Because I'm trying to figure out how this final questioning is not to your honor those statements, to also mention an investigator, Larry, were tendered. So there in evidence. I'm not about to ask Agent Seacrest about his opinion on the statements. We're just going to go through a couple of the quotes from those statements in comparison to the statements agency press, but quotes no opinions again, except that sounds like a closing argument, which is perfectly fine. And it's time. But this witness can testify to what this witness knows in this line of questioning, seems designed to put us in a position where we're going to have to make a motion that none of us wants to make sure. I don't see how in the statements have come in already there in evidence. That was never the point. It doesn't matter whether there is not. The jury's already heard. The jury will decide whether they're consistent or not, whether Mr. Seacrest thinks you're consistent or not. That's something for the lawyers to argue. That's not for one witness. You can't call an expert witness to say whether they believe somebody or not. This is highly improper. That's all you do is comparing the two states to San Francisco. But they're both on the record. He's he still wants to prove that you took the other state. Yes, Your Honor. While Judge, I think it's it's completely irrelevant. I'm not going to go through both statements from front to back again, but I just wanted to pinpoint a couple areas where Mr. Bryan says something completely different to agency press versus what he said in here to Officer Minshew and Detective Larry, 30 years. I've never heard of any such thing. I think maybe we should take this take this up outside the presence of the jury, which could take stuff. Mr. Orascom, show your object. The prosecutors laid the foundation that Mr. Bryant is characterized is characterized as changing his statement. That's all well and good for a closing argument. But you can't call witnesses for the purpose of challenging the credibility of the defendants in that way. Anybody? I have never even heard of such a thing being done in the trial. A criminal case, much less a murder case. You can't have one witness testify as to whether what another witness has been doing or editorializing is what he thinks. That means he can testify to what he knows. This is highly improbable, highly improbable. And Judge, I'm not asking Seacrest to editorialize anything. I'm going to ask him about specific quotes, not a lot of them, a couple from each statement and then ask him what Mr. Bryant said specifically to him on the same subject. That says not to ask him how they differ or, you know, just testified. It was just it was interesting to to and argue differences in the statement. You're welcome to do so as part of the argument. But for him to comment on another of a statement given to another officer, of course, I concur with that. So let me also address that since we got a break here with the use of the term victim, let me be very clear, because you mentioned a pretty strong ruling. The court is not definitive word on this case. What I what I said and what I think was told to me at the time was that I generally don't implement word bans. And what I was told was that everybody was very cognizant of that and understand that that term in this particular case brings a number of issues. And what about the state? Was there was going to be an attempt to at least reduce the use of that? I sustain the objection because the court saw that as being the term that was being used with this witness. That word made is still not in place because I realized after I made my ruling, it sounded like I've changed that. That is not the case. [14:25:08][2255.5] [14:25:08] The court found under these circumstances, that was the term that you were using over over to describe Mr. Aubrey under these circumstances. So I just want to clear that up. So the court's ruling pretrial ruling has not changed. I just want everybody to be aware of the terminology we're using and under the circumstances and facts of this case. So, yes, let's go and get the from all rights reserved and say. All right, thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are ready to proceed with the evidence from the state agency. What did Mr. Brian say to you in your interview with him on May 13 regarding the moments when he left his driveway? If you can turn to page 25 of the May 13 statement lines, 18 into page twenty six lines nine to Mr. Ryan stated, and, you know, for whatever stupid reason, again, I mean, there's going to be some reasons here that I don't understand why I did it. I jumped out in the road from my driveway at about the same time he got there. I asked, So you just did like straight out Mr. Rock brought Mr. Ryan responded. Yeah. So I asked. So you didn't go left or right. You just kind of went straight. Mr. Ryan responded straight for maybe a tad to the left. I asked. Angled a little bit, Mr. Ryan responded. Just a tad. I said, OK, now why did you pull out and angle it to the left like that? Mr. Brown responded. I guess so. I could see. I said, OK. And what did you see? Mr. Bryan responded. And I'm thinking at this point, you know, I mean, it's running through my mind at this point. Try to get a picture. I said, OK, Mr. Brian said, but I hadn't got my phone out. I don't believe at this point. I said, OK, Mr. Bryan responded by what did I see? I seen him run right straight in front of my truck. I asked around the hood, Mr. Bryan responded around the hood for the ditch. OK, so at any point, as he's describing going from his driveway to Burford Road, that Mr. Brian ever say that he tried to force the force, Mr. Arborists, into the ditch in front of his house? No, man. OK, did he at any point say he tried to block them? No, ma'am. Now, did you talk to Mr. Bryan about the circumstances surrounding his belief that Mr. Aubrey tried to get into his truck somehow? I did. OK, so I want to turn your attention to page twenty eight, line twenty, starting from the word he into page twenty nine line for if you can just read that. I'm sorry. Mr. Ryan said he was just down there low, not in the road. He comes up out of there at about the time we get around a tree and we got really close to each other. I pulled him past and this is another one where I'm really fuzzy at man, but the only one neighbor that and at the time, I don't remember if I knew his name or not, but there is a neighbor, Tommy, up there and I angled up into his drive with kind of like a mailbox there. Oh, I don't know what the hell I was doing there. Right. Because it's about that point I realized I'm in front of them. He's behind me. My windows are down. I said, Oh, Mr. Brian continued, All right. And he's coming. So I backed up to try and get straight in. At that point, he's on me. He's coming, he's on me. And I'm just like, man, I've got to get out of here. So, I mean, I think I put it in drive or whatever at that point. I'm trying to I'm trying to haul ass. And he's on my door with his hands at the door handle. I hit gas, you know, keeping in mind I'm not trying to swing the boards out the back, you know, so and him describing that incident at any point that Mr. Brian say he tried to corner a no man at any point, did he say he tried to cut him off or he had cut him off real good. Now, in your statements and your interview with him, did you confront Mr. Brian about using the words block in his previous statement to the police officers versus what he told you? Yes, ma'am. OK, and what did he say? And I'll turn your attention to page twenty six. I'm sorry, page thirty three. So it starts at line eleven nine. Eleven to line fifteen for now. I said, oh, were you trying to do. Because I think in your original statement and again I'm not trying to pin you down, I'm just going back because I, I have to listen to it all. You talk about trying to box him in and do different things. Are you OK? And go ahead and read from lines 16 through 19, Mr. Braun responded, I figured if I slowed him down and got a picture, then maybe something would happen in the end other than just him getting away because not knowing who he was. OK, can go ahead and read to lines twenty five. I responded. So. So that kind of makes me want to ask why did the cops need to know. Mr. Brian responded Because I figured he had done something wrong. I didn't know for sure. I said, OK, what made you think that he had done that. He might have done something wrong. And flipping the page, lying, lying to Mr. Brian responded. It was just instinct, man. I don't know, Your Honor, at this time. I would like to publish the reenactment video permission to publish that. It's been submitted on. Yes. I am not going to go just the way we agreed with the defense that this is on. Meet with Agent Seacrest narrating So that was my agreement to be in complete. That was not your agreement. Did you know what? You just go ahead. You go right ahead. I withdraw my objection. OK, I just looked at so Seacrest can see the screen. OK, I'm going to play. Where are you right now? We are sitting in the driveway of Mr. Ryan's residence. You go back, OK, and that's three of seven for growth. That's correct. OK, and who is seated in the driver's seat? I'm in the driver's seat. And who is seated in the front passenger seat? Mr. Brian. OK, and who is seated in the back on the back seat? We have Mr. Golf and we have Jenny Sanford. OK, so if you could just so this jury is telling us right now where, as you said, getting in his car and what he's fixing to do, he wants to drive out and he's angling to the left in the direction that they went. And he's seen a rope around here is where Mr. Aubrey pops pops up. So he's backing up because it surprises him, doesn't back in quite enough to where when he makes the turn, he's getting close. He says goodbye to his mailbox and Mr. Aubrey is down in the ditch and they're running he's running somewhat parallel to to the vehicle, to his vehicle. Right. See the ditch and. Yes, ma'am, I can step down. Thank you. And don't touch the screen because things will happen. OK, but if you can just point to the general direction, there's a point right there to your right foot. You can see the ditch right through here. That's almost like little. I think that's a little footbridge right there over it. And the data is running right. OK, Captain, I know when you read that he's explaining that Mr. Aubrey is down the ditch, maybe not quite in the water, but he's down that ditch that way. He's going to start coming up and still kind of running parallel. They're coming up to a tree right here where you can see a little sign. I think it's a maybe a real some. As they're coming up. He's expecting Mr. Aubrey to go maybe around the tree the other direction, but he ends up coming. So not this tree. This next tree is coming up. He's taking Mr. Riesman go to the left of the tree. But Mr. Berry actually goes to the right of the trees that they're right there close to each other at this tree right here. So Mr. Arbor's between the tree and tree on his left and his truck on the right. As they come up, he's plate pushes ahead. At this point, he gets ahead of Mr. Arborio as he comes into this driveway. He actually angles off and that's where he was trying to stop his movement. We've tried now in this actual reenactment. Did Mr. Brian ever say that at this point he tried to corner Mr. Avery? Did he say he tried to block them? He did not. OK, he is angling off in the middle of a direction in the middle of his path of trouble at this point, says his windows down, he realizes that he's put himself in a bad position and he starts to back up. And it's somewhere in that time frame where the contact is made between Mr. Aubrey and the vehicle. Whether or not Mr. Aubrey has reached for the door handle or whether he is he's just touching the truck. That's where the contact is made. And Mr. Brian said he was worried at this point. So he put the vehicle in drive and that's when he took off ahead of Mr. Aubury again. He's turning off over onto satellite shows or satellite drop. OK, so is that this robbery here? Yes, ma'am, it is. We've just passed Holmes Road and he at this point stops and backs up as Mr. Aubrey makes the turn down Holmes road. At this point, Mr. Aubrey is ahead and Mr. Brian is essentially chasing Mr. Mr. Aubrey down Holmes road. Is this Holmes road right here? Yes, ma'am. As we get down the road here, you're going to see a think. You'll be able to see a brightly colored mailbox. I believe the time it was blue. And that's that was an important marker because that was where the video that he took on February twenty third began. You could see the actual brightly colored mailbox. So it was a are we able to see the mailbox right now? Yes, ma'am. OK, is that this one right here? Through my dirty windshield? Yes. OK, so we paused. He confirms he's on the left side of the road at that time. When the video starts, you actually see at this point in the video, that's what we're talking about, is you see, Mr. Aubrey, that he was briefly running away and comes running back towards Mr. Brian in the video, Mr. Brian believe that Aubrey ran down his passenger side. I believe so. At this point, is Mr. Brian still driving on the wrong side of the road? Yes, ma'am. We're discussing just different angles and where things were coming and going and referencing back to the actual video that he took in February. He told me that somewhere around there at that point after Mr. Aubrey passed him, that he'd gone back over on to the right side of the road. Now, during this portion of the actual video on the day of the incident in February, he had dropped the phone. So or put it on his lap, I think was what it was. So he was what happened here, you say, and how he went down a little bit farther now, the the mailbox you see right there on the right side of the driveway, that's actually another marker that we can kind of identify from the actual video on the day of the incident, which was I'll get right there to the right, that black mailbox and driveway. So it looks like fresh or concrete. You just filled with the I guess, the landscaping. You can identify it in the video. He drives past that at some point he decides to turn around and basically does like a three point turn where he and he's talking about on the video, you can hear maybe his tire trying to catch some gravel. And he's showing me where he wanted to spots. He likely, you know, pull over to the left, back in and then pull back out to the to the left to go back to direction. And Mr. Aubrey came back to the intersection of Holmes Road and said, Telegraaf. So at this point, where is Mr. Harbury? Mr. Holmes is going to be what you're looking at from my truck. He's going to be to the left, which is close to the intersection of where the incident occurred, basically. So going back towards the intersection. That's correct. And here it was pause right here. This is where we know that the the video where he picked up that because of that driveway. And in the video we're talking about, you can see the curve of the road and trying to figure out where he was in the road. He says he's kind of center of the road we're going around. And at which point he actually sees Mr. Aubrey. [14:46:09][1261.8] [14:46:09] We're determining where it was that he stopped at when he actually when he actually finally stopped and finished taking the video, printing up to the spot where he thinks he was. If you see the stop sign there, you can see the intersection that that's the intersection of where the incident occurred. And that scene essentially stopped. Yes, right there. Yeah, 144641 COUNSEL>> Now, Agent Seacrest, throughout that entire reenactment video with Mr. Bryan, did he ever once say that he tried to angle at Mr. Arbery? WITNESS>> I donâ?Tt recall him saying angle at Mr Arbery, no. COUNSEL>> OK, did he ever say that he tried to block Mr. Arbery in? WITNESS> No, maâ?Tam. 144702 COUNSEL>>That he tried to corner him at any time? WITNESS>> No, maâ?Tam. COUNSEL>> OK, so none of that was said on that video. WITNESS>> Thatâ?Ts correct. [14:47:09] That's close now. So Agency Press, I'm going to show you what's been marked for the purposes of identification and state's exhibit three, 03. Go ahead and look at it and tell me if you recognize it. Yes, ma'am, I do. What is it? This is a, I guess, a map from Google Earth that was created based on the most recent statements of of his path of travel in the city which shores neighborhood when the incident occurred. OK, and was that created by the GBI? Yes, ma'am. OK, is it fair and accurate? Yes, ma'am. At this time, we tend are three or three to the police which killed three people in the world. In a world, this is it was like asking this, hey, agency. Clearly. Yes, ma'am. OK, and can you step down, please? OK, ok. So remember, don't touch the screen, so go ahead and describe to us what we're looking at. Three or four. What we have is in a source neighborhood you're looking at still a source still assures us until the job is right here. OK, this is dry right here, actually comes down here. I believe this is perfect right here. This is home and this is Elwood. OK, Highway Seventeen is going to be up here. Hey, what is this that we're seeing right here? That's Mr. Englishes residence. OK, and what is this one that's leaving Michael residence? And just go ahead and show us what is this one? That's Mr. Brian's house. OK, so go ahead and just explain the route. As you saw in the video, Mr. Brian's house is right here. He pulls out and turns initially, eventually turned right out of his residence. He comes down here towards Seattle, a drive. You see this little part that pulls up on satellite. That's where he pauses and then backs, backs up, down here before drugs forward on the homes. And when he's going down homes is when he's initially behind Mr. Aubrey. At some point in here, would be where Mr. Aubrey turns around and comes back towards the intersection while Mr. Brian continues down somewhere here before he then turns around back to the intersection where the incident occurred. OK, and that is based on the reenactment video. What Mr. Brian, just months after this actually happened? That's correct. OK, thank you, Nancy. So it's a Seacrest. Remember we talked about the surveillance system. Yes. Mr. Ryan's house. Now, you said Agent Kelly was there with you when you all were trying to download that. That's OK. And was he the one who actually did the form for that one? I believe he did, yes. OK, all right. That is all I have for you. Thank you. The defense might have some questions for you if it was any present. Just want to take a 15 minute recess or mid-afternoon and we'll get back into the office. Thank you, Roger Harris. Agent, you couldn't step down if you could please be back within about ten minutes. I'll be ready to go. I remind you. Please do not discuss your testimony with anybody. All right. We're in recess for 15 minutes. [14:46:09][0.0] [15:10:10] Right, got the defendants represented by counsel for the witness back on the stand. Scoffs Are you ready to proceed, as they say? All right, Paramount, you are under oath. Let's go and get that Orakpo directly with the. All right. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We are ready to go ahead and proceed with the evidence, Mr. Carl. Good afternoon and good, if I recall correctly, that it was you who called Raddy Brian when initially you reached out to Mr. Roth. I did. I knocked on his door. It wasn't Mr. Brian looking for the spotlight. That's correct. And is it fair to say at this point that you needed his cooperation? Desire to cooperate? Yes, you wanted it. You wanted to make sure. And that's because under Georgia law, witnesses are not required to talk to you. No one is required to talk to because you are not a federal agent. I'm sorry. You're not a federal agent, your agent. That's correct. And you don't have the power to compel witnesses to speak to you. That's correct. So they do the monitoring? That's correct. Now, Mr. Brian had already given several statements to the Gwinnett County Police Department headed up. Yes, OK. And he'd already given the Glynn County Police Department his cell phone several times. Is that correct? Yes, sir. OK, but the first thing that you need to do is you need to secure his cell phone again. That's your first mission, is to secure his cell phone. My first mission? Yes, sir. There was a lot of controversy surrounding this now famous video, wasn't there? Controversy. I don't know about controversy as far as the video. There was. People do not like what the video showed for sure. For sure. And there was a lot of speculation out there about the video. And I'm going to test any speculation that I'm not asking him to provide details. I'm just asking whether he'll acknowledge that there was a need for the GBI to obtain that cell phone. Was there a need? There was. OK, in fact, as it turned out, there was another important video in this case or set of videos, whether or not if you're referring to the videos at his house. Yes. Or the night of it. Yes, that's correct. Somehow in their exhaustive investigation, going county police department, for whatever reason, did not obtain those videos. That's correct. And you were unaware of the existence of those videos until Mr. Raddy, Brian, brought them to your attention? Yes, sir. Directing your attention to May 11th. Did you tell Raddy, Brian, that the past week had probably been one of the worst of his life? Yes, And he agreed with you? That's correct. I believe you've testified that to McMichael, Michael. Defendants have been arrested. That's correct. The GBI director, Vic Reynolds, had given a press conference and to anything from the press conference. That's that's hearsay. I have no intention of going into the contents of the press conference. But your boss for Cobb County D.A., that frowns at that time. GBI director had actually given a press conference in this case. Yes, that's correct. You were physically present when he did so? Yes, sir, I was. And whether you were present, you were aware that there was a press release. I'm aware there were press releases going on. And when you were speaking with Mr. Brian, which you described as media and quote unquote, other entities were blowing the situation up even more objections around that, Your Honor, in terms of the relevance of what Seacrest thought about his media, based on the conversations we had yesterday outside the presence of the jury, I thought the importance of this line of questioning was clear. If you're asking the court that no. OK, so. Well, I'm at the court's direction, but the circumstances surrounding under which statements are made is relevant to their admissibility. So ask you question. Did you describe when you spoke with Mr. Brian, the media, quote unquote, other entities, quote unquote, blowing it up even more, directing your attention paid for the transcript as our review section would stick with us to go to page one every page for the future on which transcript the final OK at any point in time to. That's what I'm asking you about. Don't hesitate to let me know. Thank you. Yes, that's correct. A lot. And you noted that the media was already out front of Mr. Bryan's residence when you first attempted to make contact with Your Honor. Again, I wasn't doing his yes, the media was there. And that media craze only got worse in the days to follow the media was the media was present, OK. And again, on five, thirteen, two days later, when you speak to Mr. Brian again, you acknowledge that the past few days have been, quote, difficult for Mr. Brian, unquote. Yes, sir. Because there's even more media now is that, quote, I don't think that's a quote, but there were more media. I'm sorry you're asking me a question. I'm sure that you discussed with Mr. Brian the march through his neighborhood. Page one. Thirty nine on your flight thirteen transcript. I do recall that if you sympathize with unusual activity in the neighborhood. Yes. You've previously agreed that in the context of this interview in May of twenty, that this was a neighborhood on edge. That's correct. By this time, Mr. Brian feared for his own personal safety and that expanding the speculation, directing your attention to page 142 of what I believe is the transcript that was the transcript of his prior testimony in this trial. Did you give her a cigaret, everybody? A fair enough volume, one of the proceedings of May thirteen, twenty, twenty one. Do you have that transcript, sir? Not not here on the stand with me, Mr.. Have X your testimony. What page you on your page two to page 142. I'm sorry. Which statement? Which part of the page one. Forty two lines three through seven. Yes, sir. Do you recall being asked whether Mr. Bryan and his fiancee related multiple occasions incidents that gave them concern for their personal safety? Yes. Or do you recall Mr. Bryant's fiancee, Amy, giving you a threatening letter that she pulled out of my mailbox with your say? Yes. Anything in that letter is hearsay and relevance to Amy all. I'll rephrase it in this case, but I'll rephrase. In the presence of Roddy Bryant, did his fiancee, Amy L. Ron, give you a letter that she pulled out of her mailbox? Same objection, Your Honor. I don't know if there's it's certainly not hearsay. We have not it's not consistent. And what's the relevance of it? Is there any evidence that Mr. Ryan read the letter? I mean, what our office did, Mr. Bryan asked you to do something to help protect. I don't recall that directly. I know there were general concerns about his personal safety. Yes. There were multiple conversations about it. I is it fair to say that Mr. Bryan was very much concerned about speaking with you at this time? Objection. The speculation. I'll rephrase. Would you describe Mr. Bryan as scared? Not of me. I'm sorry. I didn't mean scared of you, but scared generally because the situation in the neighborhood. Yes. And you still need his help? I would like his assistance, yes. Can the last thing you want Mr. O'Brien to do, it's freak out. I don't want anybody to freak out. You certainly don't want to shut down because you want help. I'd like to get statements from anybody involved in an investigation at. Sir, I'm going to direct your attention to the bottom of page. The bottom half page. I'm the bottom two thirds of page three of the transcript, the five eleven transcript we which is, sir, I'm showing you the argument of three of that transcript. And no, this is not marked for this debate. The full transcript ready for. Do you recall that conversation? Yes, sir. I do think can you read that conversation from the ones you handicap or you can read the smaller print on the document? Either way, I stated, I. I do appreciate you. You said you would call me back and you did. And you said you wanted to talk and you are. I appreciate that. I want to tell you. Thank you. Like I told Mr. Golf, said Kevin, and I responded, Kevin. Yeah, it takes me a second sometimes, you know, at this point your your your a witness, you know, that's kind of what we've developed. I shouldn't say developed, but determined by listening to all the evidence and the statements and watching videos. There are there are things that we need to that we have questions on and that we'd like to to I guess, be a little more specific than what we've been able to see. You know, but I do appreciate you coming in and that if what said yes, sir, that is what I said [15:26:07][956.5] [15:26:07] At that point in time. Lf it was important for you to let Mr. Bryant know that he was a witness in this matter, it was important for him to know that I appreciated him calling me back like he said he would after my initial contact with him. It was important that he know what his role was at this point in time. And I wanted him to understand that I was looking at this objectively from a fresh set of eyes and not going strictly of what Glynn County Police Department relate. Now, when you told him that you had reviewed the previous statements to the Glynn County Police Department and the other evidence in the case, you weren't lying to him. I was not. You did actually. You had all that information available to you? Yes, sir. And you know that the Gwinnett County Police Department had referred to him as a witness. I don't recall that specifically. But if it's in there, it's in there. OK, well, you reviewed their case file. I did some pieces, I would say. And when you became involved in this case, the county police department listed him as a witness, asked and answered. I don't think so, but I'll defer to the court. The go ahead to do is go to the Glynn County Police Department and identified him as a witness in this matter. I don't recall. OK, fair enough. But you told him that he was a witness and told him at that point in time, which would be consistent as far as you know, with everything he had been led to believe. Objection. The speculation as far as what Mr. Brian was led to believe, I know that you executed a you had Mr. Brown execute a consent form. I believe it's of which show you what's been marked. State's Exhibit 197. I believe you read that to the jury earlier. Yes, sir, I did. Where in there does it tell Mr. Brian what he's under investigation for? It doesn't make. Thank you, sir. I would add that he knew what the investigation was about being as the whole case was around about Aubrey and his death. But we'll come back to that. Maybe I slept through it earlier, but where was the Miranda form that you used on this occasion? He was not under arrest. Miranda is only required when somebody is being questioned while they're in custody. At no time was Mr. Bryan in custody during this questioning. As a matter of fact, he was advised from the beginning that he was free to leave and that he was free to stop talking at any time to which Mr. Golfer's was present. During those conversations, Well, let's be clear here. You are under no legal obligation to give Mr. Bryan Miranda rights, but you could have there's no reason to. But you could have I could do a lot of things, but there's no reason to read him. Miranda, if he is not in custody or there's no chance of him being put into custody at that time, he'd never Mirandized somebody who wasn't in custody. I do a lot of different things depending on an investigation. The statutes and case law gives us parameters for which we have to work through. What I do in one case may be different than another based on the circumstances of that case. There's no straight cookie cutter approach to this. The point is to always get the information that's needed in the investigations that you can make a reasonable decision on charges should they be made or not. But in this case, there was a specific reason why you did not Mirandize Mr. Bryant. That's correct, because he was not in custody. When you fill out a Miranda form, are you not required to tell the subject what you're investigating them for? No, sir. No, you don't do that. Objection. Your relevance around the form. Josquin We've already established that a Miranda warning was not given. With all respect, the credibility of all witnesses is a matter for the jury. I'll say sort of said he didn't read. You never use the term citizen arrest in this conversation. Any of these interviews, either myself or Mr. Bryan, discusses the arrest that you discussed, other legal concepts. Did you not? Which ones such as self-defense don't recall that specifically. Do you have a reference? No. No, you don't recall that at all. If you have a reference to refresh my memory, but I don't recall that specifically circled back to that. You did discuss whether Mr. Bryan was scared on the side of the road. Do you have a specific reference? Did you discuss whether Mr. Bryan took defensive action to pull away from Mr. Aubury when he felt Mr. Aubrey was trying to get instructed, not testify that earlier today, not in relation to self defense, but in relation to these series of events that occurred prior to Mr. Berry's death? Yes, we discussed the now shortly into the interview, concern became apparent as to what your intentions were. But did it not concern for you? There was concern on the part of Mr. Bryan as to what your intentions were, objection to speculation about concerning Mr. Ryan. We don't have to speculate here. It's refresh breaking your attention to page twenty one of the transcript. Which which transcripts? The five eleven transcript. AC after this colloquy on page three, the defense review, page twenty one is a certain areas that you're. Yeah, the tell us that the part where the interview stops and I don't have line numbers on my copy, but from the part where it says, OK, I'll step outside a minute. In the beginning I guess to give some context, in the beginning of this interview, Mr. Golf had even reminded Mr. Bryan while I was telling him about the voluntariness of the interview, Mr. Golf reminded him that any point we could pause the interview so that Mr. Bryant could confer with his attorney on any questions he may have. And that's, I think, what is occurring right here. Mr. Bryan starts off from this page stating he asked me and I don't exactly remember right now what exactly he said then. He was just saying that, yes, if that wasn't me, well, he directed me to it. I directed him to the breaking the conversation. And then we approached Robert Speakman directing your attention line four. Well, it's the fourth line. I know there are no line numbers, but line four, how does this part of the conversation begin? I stated, OK, I'll step outside a minute. In the process. What next? Mr. Golf says, no, you step outside or I'm sorry, not you step outside, we'll step outside. And Mr. Brian said, Yeah, I was going to step outside. And I said, Yeah, that's fine, Roddy, have a seat. And then what do I say? Mr. Golf says, Right, you stay. We're stepping out. And Mr. Bryant says, OK. [15:36:20][613.2] [15:36:19] And then you say, no, you're good, you're good. And then I say, we're stepping out, OK? And then you and I step down. That's correct. And when we came back in, what did you tell Mr. Brian? I know not everybody talks to the police every day. And I know this is a very stressful situation, but, you know, we're going to be OK here. Mr. Ryan says, OK, OK. And then you say, all right, we're going to be OK. I mean, nothing has changed when we're done here. You're going home. OK, And Mr. Ryan said, OK, because he's just a witness. I believe that our our question or our conversation outside was to Braudis nervousness about talking to police and his trouble recalling events. And I believe you were speaking for your client as to his ability to recall events, because it's an issue. It's it's an issue when you're dealing with him that day, I don't remember being as much of an issue for him as it was for you. Really. OK, all right. Now, on the 11th, Mr. Ryan gave you an hour plus interview, did he not? Yes, sir, that's correct. Hour and fifteen something with that. May 13th, he comes back and gives you a two hour interview. That's correct. And he speaks with he was in his home. Bezzina, the May 13th interview for two hours. In addition to the two hour interview at the DNR headquarters, he invites you into his home. Meet with you is his. That's correct. After discussions with you, it was advised that we could go to his home. I believe that was to download the night our camera system. There was not an interview. It was a matter of gathering evidence. And you spoke with a man in the front yard, not about the facts of the case as much as it was the, again, the logistics of the video and everything else. And you're speaking with him down when you're getting his fingerprints. After you and I had already had a conversation where I promised I wouldn't ask any questions about the case during that time because you weren't present, because you had built a relationship of trust with Mr. Ryan, which I try to do with all of my witnesses and all of my people that I discuss with cases, whether it be subjects, whether it be witnesses, to the point where I've gotten text messages thanking me from people that I've arrested because I've treated them fairly. And in case it wasn't clear earlier, in all these interviews that transpired over several hours, you're discussing a lot of different subjects. Yes. Path of Travis. Only one of those I'm sorry, say the path of travel, the video, the now famous video. That's one of the subjects of those conversations, the recorded interview conversations. Yes. I mean, you're not really Mr. Ryan for four consecutive forty two hours at a time now. And half the time. That is one subject. No, these interviews are very conversational in nature about the events that that happened on that day before and after. And it was through no fault of yours that Mr. Ryan nevertheless had trouble articulate what was going on that day. No, sir. He didn't. You said it was no fault. It was no fault of yours. You were trying to work with him? I was working with him, yes. OK, now, on May 11th and May 13th, did Mr. Ryan appear at any time to be mentally unstable, sir, to appear to be influence under the influence of alcohol, drugs or other intoxicants? No, sir. Was Mr. Ryan loud or boisterous? No, sir. Did he come across to you as gleeful or bragging or boastful? No, sir. Did he strikes you as someone seeking attention, seeking the spotlight? No, sir. To Mr. Bryan. Drop bombs or otherwise use profanity when you were talking to him? [15:40:36][256.9] [15:40:36] Yes, Was Mr. Brian in any way disrespectful to you? He was not. OK, now, there are times in the transcript where you and Mr. Brian or discussing the deceased in this case. That's hardly my first name. That's correct. In doing so, you didn't mean any disrespect? I don't see that as disrespectful. And certainly when Mr. Arborists said his name, you didn't take that as a disrespect towards Mr. Aubrey with Mr. Arborists, his name. When Mr. Brian said Mr. Arbor's first name, you didn't take that as a sign of disrespect? No, sir. Did you ask Mr. Brian how far I got in school on either May 11th or May 13th? Not to my recollection, but I think he did tell me that he graduated from Brunswick, if I remember correctly. Did you ask him whether he had any learning disabilities? Mr.. Did you ask him whether he could read and write in English language? I don't recall specifically if I asked that one at don't recall him replying. Most of it. I do recall that. Yes, sir. I now, Mr. Brian never denied following Mr. Obama every day. That's correct. And while he might not have used the word, Mr. Brian never denied angling his vehicle ahead of Mr.. He never denied angling his vehicle in that direction. His choice of words changed drastically from the point of the Glen County interview to the point of his interview with me. I'm sorry that I asked you whether he he changed his wording or did I ask you whether he denied angling his vehicle in front of Mr. Section? Your Honor, the witness is allowed to explain his answer, which I believe is what you just said. What a witness does is answer yes or no in any way. Which is state. Of course we do. Right. Brian never denied during his interview with you that he angled his vehicle ahead of Mr. Robert. That's correct. He never denied. He just changed the descriptive words that he used in his involvement in the incident that they did. You just tell the jury when the district attorney was playing this reenactment, did you just tell the jury as you pull the truck and where the where the driveway is in the ditch, didn't you just show them on the video of him angling and say that he did? You just didn't use the word? Yes, sir. He said he did that during the reenactment video with me. But the wording was different than his explanation when he was interviewed by the Oakland County Police Department. But based on your video, whether he used the same words or not, he conveyed the same meaning. He conveyed the same meaning with different intent. You know what's in Mr. Bryan's mind? I would still know. It's in his mind. But the use of the English language, in the words, can give some insight into a person's intent. Are you trying to specular? That's what was in Mr. Ryan's mind. I'm not speculating in what is in his mind. I guess I would be explaining what the meaning that I took to those words and what I would say as a general meaning to those words. Roddy Ryan never denied cutting in a head of Mr. Arbitrary Day, at which point at any point in your conversation with did he ever deny cutting in ahead of Mr. Orgo? No. He was factually correct in his movements that day during his interview with me. Now, beyond that, what you're really doing in this video and this narrative, you just get in the jury is you're largely speculating about what happened. I'm re I'm giving insight on what I was told was that had happened on the day of the incident. OK, was that Mr. Ryan's testimony, the words you were using when the video was playing or was that your spin on it? That would be me. Paraphrase what Mr. Bryan told me during that reenactment video, Mr. Bryan, that, you know, that he didn't think he could do this, do the reenactment video. Mr. Bryan. Let's you know, many times that he was struggling to remember events. Two and a half months later, which is not uncommon for anybody that has to recall events afterwards. But it doesn't stop me from being able to ask the questions. That's my job as an investigator, because you needed this reenactment video. Actually, you offered the video prior to the interview. You you referenced that Mr. Ryan had a hard time remembering the path of travel in a narrative format and that he was willing to take that path of travel after the interview. So you took that as the green light to put words in Mr. Bryant's mouth? I never put words in Mr. Bryan's mouth. Look, make sure we live in the same thing [15:47:06][389.2] [15:47:06] Yes. That's your job. And, sir, is it fair to say that what you did on May 13th in that car was that was a rehearsal before you recorded the. I'm sorry, repeat that question. You rehearsed this video with Mr. Ryan before you recorded it? Yes. There was a discussion as far as Mr. Braun's ability to recall exactly what happened. So we did refresh the hands prior to actually doing the recording. So it was practiced. He did address run a practice run before you turned the video. It was a run to refresh his memory because he was having a hard time with the path of travel. We assure you the investigators submarine prepared this. Thank you. Your investigative summary indicates that Jackson, if you're sitting around your house, at he's trying to refresh his recollection. That's one thing, but not very helpful documents. If you refresh your recollection that I don't believe the witness ever said that he couldn't remember anything. I'll rephrase. In your written summary, you acknowledge the difficulty Mr. Bryan had in determining his path of travel two and a half months later. Yes, just like I stated earlier, he needed an opportunity to refresh his memory. And it was only after you refreshed his memory that the video was turned off. I did not refresh his memory. It was impossible for me to refresh Mr. Brian's memory. I was not there on February twenty third. I could only go off the statements that Mr. Bryan provided that it was possible for you to refresh his memory. Wasn't that I Howard Chris. Mr. Bryan repeatedly said he's having trouble recalling the events of that day. And in all the times that you met with him and all the times he expressed difficulty, did you ever once offered to show him a copy of his own statement? No, sir. You had both of his statements from the police department at that time, right? You had the video and the transcript, I'm sorry, in the video, OK, you've indicated you reviewed them. Did you ever once give Mr. Brian an opportunity to review what he said two and a half months earlier? It wouldn't be standard to have somebody review their statement after the fact. The whole point of the GBI coming in to do another investigation. This incident was to try to start the investigative process from the beginning and basically get a fresh start. I wanted Mr. Brian statement from his recollection right then, and I could compare it to what he had said earlier and try to determine if there were discrepancies based off memory issues or if there discrepancies based off of I'll call it ill intent. Where in your five page written summary do you ever reference Roddie Brian attempting to run over Mr. Murray with his truck? I don't think it's in there. It's right here. Yeah, I don't believe it's OK. To be fair, you weren't investigating Roddy Ryan for an aggravated assault of a motor vehicle where he was investigating Roddy's involvement in the death of a model or very well, certainly if he had told you that he tried to run Mr. Aubry over with his truck, that would have changed the character of your investigation. Not necessarily. You certainly would have included in your five page summary, would you? That's correct, because other agents for the GBI and your supervisors are looking at these things as they come in, right? That's correct. And you previously testified about an incident where Mr. Aubrey, from Mr. Ryan's perspective, appears to be getting in the vehicle. That's correct. Or try. Yes. And in fact, he expressed a fear to you later that he that he was going to try again. That sounds familiar. Yes. Directing your attention to page fifty four of what I believe is the May 13th transcript show. Fifty four page fifty four. OK, directing your attention to the Middle where Mr. Brian begins with. Well at first he tells you he's trying to get out of the way. Ten find down. Yes. Now he's trying to get out of the way. He says, I mean for a split second he says, oh, my God, he's coming back at me. He saw that. Yes, that's that's right. Before he continued following Mr. Aubury towards the intersection of satellite and homes. And so he's telling you that I'm trying to stay back, stay as far back as I can from this. Do. Yes. But he had also turned around to he was already going away from Mr. Aubrey and he had turned around to come back and follow him. And when he turned so when he turned around and I got that video that split second and he's coming back at me and I'm like, oh, expletive, excuse me again. Do I use that word? I understand. Yes. Right before he continues following him. Yes, ma'am. So he says and started kind of evasive action. And I dropped the phone. He said, yes, your testimony today, you will be a key portion of his statement. Did you not even want to talk about directing your attention to page forty of May 13th? Yes, with me, May 13th, Do you recall Mr. Ryan specifically telling you that he never intended to strike Mr. Ahmed on page forty and saw the top page one? That's your question for Mr. Ryan. Up page forty one. I assume so. All right. So you never intentionally tried to run them off the road, Mr. Ryan says no. To think this is referring to the time when he was trying to cut them off in the driveway. And so he's saying that he wasn't trying to trying to actually run them over or hit him. And actually, you're following up on what he's told you on page thirty eight where he told you that he got over his path, but he was too far in front of Mr. Aubrey to be a threat. Page thirty eight. Yes, sir. To forward in front of him to be running him off the road. That's correct. Well, technically, if Mr. Aubrey didn't stop running, he would have run into Mr. Harper, Mr. Ryan's truck. Objection. Judge, is there a question? And there is speculation in the context Mr. Ryan's not denying the blocks at the trial. He's just pointing out to you that he was a good distance in front of you. Did that objection compound question, Your Honor, to break and enter the witness can trying to answer that, if he will. He will. If you won't, I'll rephrase. Can you repeat it? Mr. Ryan has acknowledged attempting to block Mr. Aubrey's path of travel, but he's told you at page thirty eight that when he does that, he's sufficiently far in front of him that he's not threatening Mr. Aubrey with his vehicle. That's correct. He's saying that he is trying to stop his movement, but that he's too far in front to make contact. That's correct. Now, we've discussed in generality Mr. Brian Struggle's reviewing the events of that day. Now, I've got some more specific questions. And I'm sorry I didn't mean to take you out there. You didn't need that. May 13th transcript again. OK, um, Mr. Brian told you that it had been two and a half months since this incident. That's page three. That's right. But he promises to do his best, doesn't he? He says, I'll give you what I can recall. Uh, as far as what took place in front of his house, he tells you it all happened pretty quick, does he not? Page six? I believe that's correct. Yes. But now you've already decided that you're going to direct the conversation, have you not, getting your attention? Back to page three. You agree to quote unquote, direct rotty, Brian three. What happened? Were you a page, page three factor of the five submission transcript? You use the words direct. Mr. Ryan, I'm trying to find a second. I thought I was looking at May 13th. OK, that's what you're asking? Yes. OK, I think that's in reference to conversations that you and I had. And I tried to ask open ended questions to get responses. And it was advised that I probably needed to be a little bit more direct in the questioning to give them guidance on what I was, what I was wanting to discuss. Well, let's be clear. You're not trying to trick Mr. Brian here. You're simply trying to get the information. That's correct. But you did do that. You have to Director. I have to ask direct questions. But again, a lot of that is based on conversations that Mr. in the Gulf and I had regarding what his ability to respond and understand open the questions as it related to the the things that I was looking to ask about. So I believe you even referenced being more direct with him, because as Mr. Brown explained to you at page twenty two, it is hard for him to explain what happened out there. You talk about the bottom of the page. I believe that well, it says what it actually says is what this is going to be hard to explain without kind of really showing you, Mr. Brian telling you he can't put in put it into words. Yes. Like I explained earlier, Mr. Ryan had a hard time describing things in a narrative format when it came to the path of travel. But he had. But that's why he was willing to go afterwards and actually do the drive through, because he could do it more. And that kind of setting versus just describing it narratively. Yes, sir. And at page twenty three, before I get there, when you read the Green County Police Department report, you did see that the map in the squiggles that Mr. Brian drew on it when he was interviewed by Detective Lowry. So I knew that there was a map that they were referencing when I was reviewing the video. I actually don't recall seeing the map initially. I know that we got it at some point, but I don't recall actually being able to find it when I was preparing for the interview. Well, it was fairly obvious at that point that Mr. Brian, Mr. Bryan's matchmaking skills would leave a lot to be desired. Yes, that's correct. 160233 COUNSEL>> Specifically, Mr. Bryan had trouble recalling details about the carjacking, directing your attention to page thirty one. WITNESS>> I don't -- I don't know of a carjacking. COUNSEL>> Attempted carjacking? WITNESS>> I don't know if -- COUNSEL>> Iâ?Tm sorry. What do you call it when someone tries -- >> Objection. COUNSEL>> -- to get in your motor vehicle. >> He just cut the witness off, your honor. COUNSEL>> Iâ?Tm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Explain. 160256 WITNESS>> I don't, I don't know of a carjacking. I know that if someone is being chased through a neighborhood that there may be different ways that they may deal with that. [16:03:07] Fair enough. Fair enough. But for example, Mr. Brian has difficulty. Recall whether it is Mr. Avery's right hand or left hand, which is closest to his door. That's correct. Now, you were asked previously whether the transcripts from May 11th and May 13th that you were referring to reflected the full conversation that took place in your car. There was a conversation in my car on May 11th. Directing your attention to page 148 of the motion transcript, page 148. [16:05:26][1101.0] [16:05:26] Do you recall being asked whether the transcript of the reenacts that goes with the reenactment video reflected the full conversation that took place in your car? I stated that it reflects the time that we started the reenactment at the time when you turned on the video, when we started the reenactment, basically, you had so much trouble with Mr. Brian the first time you went through this with him and start all over again. I wouldn't call it trouble. I would call it again. It's been two and a half months. We had difficulty relaying the exact version of the path to travel. It was better to do a refresh to allow him to refresh his memory before we actually recorded it. The flip side would have been if we would have started recording it, it was wrong. It would become more confusing. So the idea was to get the best recollection that Mr. Brian had on the video. And then so prior to that, we did the we did the the refresh drive around to make sure that he kind of knew where he was. And Mr. Golf and Mr. Ryan were on board with that during the whole time this occurred. So when the traffic begins go, that's not that wasn't really good, was it? Yes, sir. It was duo. No, sir, you don't. We would call it a mulligan. I would not. All right. Let's talk about the video transcript itself that you testified earlier that those were that's what Mr. Brian told you related to this jury earlier today. It true and accurate. Are you referring to my my paraphrasing of events on the video? Yeah. Yes. OK, directing your attention to page two, you tell Mr. Brian, let's start. We saw you saw them going through. That's you leading Mr. Brian, is it not? Sir? That's me. Just going back to information. And Mr. Brian had said to me as to how this started, but you're basically you're the director of the of this little movie. That's what I'm doing, is just going back after the refresh and the information to Mr. Brian had already given in just referencing it during the video. It's like a way of of recording it and getting it getting it on record that this is what this is what Mr. Brian had provided to me. And he's acknowledging it by saying, oh, and then again, on page two, you're telling him you kind of see him running. Yes, sir. Which is, again, goes back to the information that he had already relayed to me during the interview and during the refresh of the drive through the neighborhood. And again, on page two, you're telling him you already knew Todd? I was on page two. On page two, we're still on page two. You're telling us you're telling him that Mr. Aubrey is still in front of you. No, sir. No, no. That is a I'm telling him the direct quote here is you already knew and I use a a word to reference Mr. Berry was going down that way. In the direction that they were angling for that. Mr. Promisingly. All right. That can to the bottom of the page, to Mr. Bryan's expressing uncertainty about the sequence of events. Is he not, of a page two, he says, quote unquote, he was probably right beside me. Yes, that's correct. He does. Page three, about eight lines up. You're telling him you're still going? I'm not telling him. That's a question, not the actual line, says you're still going question mark. And let's be clear, who's operating a motor vehicle for this video? Is that Mr. Brian operating motor vehicle? No, sir. I'm operating my status. You got a truck and I am following the path of travel and the directions that Mr. Brian has given me. OK, I've been asking him about speeds and directions and angles and if I'm doing it correctly. Well, what Mr. Brian has told you that is that he can't explain. He needs to show you, right? That's correct. OK, and he's already brought other police officers into his truck, has he not? You're aware that Officer Minshew is actually sitting in Mr. Ryan's truck when he gets the the the first download of this idea or attempted download. OK, right. You could have let Mr. Brian operate the vehicle and show you himself. That would have been an option. So it's when you say in here on page three, something like this, that's not Mr. Brian telling you how to move the vehicle. That's you moving the vehicle for the camera at Mr. Ryan's direction. That's correct. So he told you to move that way? Yes, sir. And where did he tell you to drive that way? Directing your attention to page three, the transcript. Where is Mr. Ryan? They are directing you, telling you how to operate the vehicle. The whole page. It starts off over the top. Mr. Brian states. All right. I'm staying on this side of the road and I'm ahead of them, but I'm not going that fast. They're speed. You can come on down. And actually, if you go to ten, he says. So then I speed up. He talks about how they almost melted the tree, says we're real close to each other. And I ask a question, are you still going? He replies, Yep, straight on through. I sped up a little bit more good bit. I kind of left them. And then you say, oh, he's so he is directing this travel through the whole way. He's talking about speed and direction during this whole process. And then you're saying something like this. Yes, I'm asking for clarification. I'm asking Mr. Brian is what I'm doing with my vehicle the same as what he did on that day on February 2013. And after you've done it, you're getting him to agree with you. I'm asking him a question. I want him to respond. Yes. If it is correct and if it's not correct, I want him to respond. No and tell me what the correct way is. And this is all while people are walking through the neighborhood while all this media craziness is going on, is it not? We've seen the video there was no I don't recall seeing anybody on Burford at the point that we're talking about on page three. I don't believe we start seeing people in the video until we get to the intersection of homes and satellite. So at the point we're talking about here, there's not a whole bunch of people in the street. But the media circus, while it's not evident, the few minutes of your video, you've already testified about the media circus in this timeframe, about the march to the Navy Yard, testified about that. You know, I have the media circus is not just about what was happening in the neighborhood. There were times where there was media in the neighborhood. There were times that were there that there were other people milling about about the neighborhood that did not appear to live there. But Media Circus also referenced a lot of other things that were going on beyond just physical activity. The neighborhood, as you've already testified, Mr. Ryan, is in fear for himself and his family. Objection to this characterization and also speculation assisted. Mr. Ryan has expressed concern for his safety. Yes, he has. Mr. Ryan is trying to please you. Is objection speculation about Mr. Ryan and anyone that Mr. Right. Mr. Ryan, is you would describe this, Mr. Brian Brian telling you what you want to hear as a matter of fact, Mr. Brian, even through your cross-examination today, says several times that he's having a hard time remembering somebody who's trying to please me would generally just want to answer in whatever way I'm trying to get them to answer. But Mr. Brian is is not doing that. So he's trying to be he's trying to remember what he can recall from two and a half months before and when he's having trouble recalling you're helping the law. I can't help him along. I was not there that day. I can't provide those details. I'm not helping him alone. I am asking questions, which is my job. And why won't you simply show and statements? Objection. Asked and answered. It's sustained while you're sitting in the car and he's having trouble remembering details, why don't you just share that with him? Like I said earlier, my my goal here is to give his statement for that day of his recollection so that I can compare it as part of the investigative process. We actually have a team of investigators that are working this case. We're discussing it daily. We're going back and we're discussing differences. We want to see those differences so we can we can use that in the investigation to determine our path and what our decisions are going to be. But when you've reviewed his prior statements and he can't see them, then he's looking to you to fill in the gaps. That's human nature. Objection. Speculation, Judge, let's go to now. It's just it Baker at page four, you ask him, is this where Mr. Aubrey went for the door? Yes. And you're asking you're telling it as you were coming in reverse again. I'm not telling him the transcripts, both of those quotes of what I said or questions. The first one, OK, is this where he went for the door? Question? Mr. Brian says yes. And then I respond, OK, are you coming in reverse? It's a question. [16:17:10][703.8] [16:17:10] Again, it goes back to the information he's already provided. And I'm just helping the narration from what he's already told me. So I can be sure that I understand, which is also in the question format, giving him the opportunity to respond. If I misunderstood. And while Mr. Brian is talking to you, your phone rings during the video, does it not? I believe here my phone rang somewhere in there. I think of it unfortunately, interrupts Mr. Brian, an important part of your reenactment. When my phone rang, it did not rang continuously until it went to voicemail. My recollection is, is that I silenced it once it started ringing. But Mr. Brian, correction in the actual audio of this video, he says, I might have been in drive by then as opposed to being in reverse, as you testified to. You don't recall him saying that? I don't recall. Yes, I recall him unsure of the exact time that he believed Mr. Aubrey reached for the door. It was more of it happened quickly. And it either happened while I was already while I was in reverse or after I'd gone in to drive. It was more of just a difficulty in recalling the exact moment because of how quickly it occurred. And Mr. Brian added, which he did not mention today, I wasn't looking back there at him. That's right. But again, I was paraphrasing the the statement that Mr. Bryan gave me. He was trying to figure out where Mr. Aubrey was going and get out of here. That's what he told you. That's correct. Right before he continued to chase Mr. Aubrey down home road. Now, in the video, we see you pulling up by the ditch at a driveway where he's angled. You remember that? Yes, that was before next to. That's right. This same time frame. That's correct. Matt, when you're driving the car, when you back up, you're not backing up at the angle that Mr. Mr. Bryan reported pulling in. You're not backing up the angle that you pulled in. You're backing up at an angle more towards Mr. Harbury. I'm backing. But the direction of Mr. Braun. Where did Mr. Brian tell you that he backs straight up? Where in that transcript did he tell you that? He doesn't tell me that specifically, nor is he correct it the way that I'm doing it at that time, because maybe at that time, Mr. Aubrey doesn't understand that that might be important. Mr. Aubrey, Mr. Brian, objection to speculation about what Mr. Ryan understood at that time, because you still haven't explained, Mr. Bryant, that you're looking at whether there's an aggravated assault. To the question there is when you're going through this part of this with Mr. Bryan, you had not told him that you're looking at an aggravated assault at this point in time? I'm still looking at the case as a whole and what his involvement was. I wouldn't even say that specifically at this time. I was thinking about aggravated assault. OK, so neither you nor Mr. Bryan know that that angle has any actual importance at the time you're making this objection to speculation about what Mr. Bryan knew at that time. I'll rephrase. You weren't deliberately trying to mislead Mr. Bryan when you angle you when you reversed in the way that you were deliberately trying to mislead him. It didn't occur to you at that time that it mattered. I did not deliberately misleading mislead Mr. Bryan at any time of the angle, the exact angle of how Mr. Bryan backed up again. He did not correct what I did. And so that was the best representation of what I have as to what happened that day. Now, as in the video, you showed Mr. Ryan pulling up ahead after the backing up, you saw him going. But in your testimony this morning, you did talk about the speed at which Mr. Bryan was moving. OK, Mr. Bryan told you that that moment when he pulls away is the fastest that he's traveling during this entire incident, doesn't it? Yes. OK, but you didn't mention that again. I didn't mention that. It was a paraphrase of what Mr. Bryan told me during that reenactment. Now, I believe he testified about Mr. Ryan backing up again this time when he's given past holds. Correct. Yes, that's correct. But when he's backing up, he's not backing up at Mr. Arias. No, sir, not not to my knowledge, because Mr. Aubrey is going up the street. I don't know the exact time that Mr. Aubrey would have gone up the other street in relation to when Mr. Ryan was backing up. I'm going to get this right before this trial is over. Of this little squiggle here. You see that Mr. pretty important in this case, isn't objection just reiterated the relevance of that was ages six. In the entire interview that you conducted with Mr. Ryan, did you ever ask him about Matteo Renzi? Not to my recollection. As far as your entire interview with Mr. Ryan, Mr. Ryan has no idea what Mr Albanese is as far as I know. But Mr. Aubrey knows where Mr. Cleanseas objection to what Mr. are very honest. I'll rephrase it. In the course of your investigation, you discovered that Mr. Aubrey had run out of to twenty Sattell. That's correct. Yes, ma'am. And run down for Mr. Ryan. That's correct. Well, towards in that direction. And Mr. Ryan's got the music playing up front, right? Yes. So you can't see or hear he hasn't. So he has no idea. Mr Albanese. Daulaire objection to speculation. Mr. Ryan, do you have any reason to believe that Mr. Brian was aware of Mr. Advisees presence out there, whether Mr. Brian knew that Mr. But I don't know that Mr Bansi was still standing out there at that point in time, but he had in there only minutes before he had been there at the time that Mr Albanese made the phone call to the non-emergency line. That's correct. And that would explain why Mr. Aubrey turns up the other street objection to speculation about lies no matter what he did. Say hello to Mr. Mr. Ryan had no idea that that objection speculation about what Mr. Ryan was trying to tell you. He's aware that that's correct. He tells he surprised that Mr. Aubrey turns up Hultz. Is that in the transcript? I believe it is nothing to look for the reference. Now, if you can't know. Yes, let's just take a actually let's just make sure we that let's just go ahead and take a five minute recess. All right. Here. All right. I'm going to you just stepped out for lunch. You just wait up. Oh, yes. OK, we're going to take a short recess. Which golf? How long you planning to take with this witness? Because we seem to have spent a long time on one video. So I'm wondering where you're going with all this. Yes, I'm fine with speed up. [16:26:48][577.7] [16:26:48] I'm not asking you to speed it. Well, it'd be great if you could. Obviously, I want to give you the opportunity, but I'm just trying to figure out from a timing standpoint where we are. I thought when we started, we were in pretty good shape for the day during my flight. I plan on finishing this, which is what I'm trying to get some idea on where we are. Pretty close, thanks. I have no idea what that means, but let's go and take a short recess and come back. Maybe we can get a better idea when I get back. Thank y. [16:27:24][36.2] [16:27:24] Ou. I'll walk with say, Cottager. [16:35:24][480.4] [16:36:08] Astron from the state to my want to go. Let's check with the witness. Actually, you know I probably need to instruct the witness, [16:36:16][7.4] [523.9] [16:36:15] so let's bring the witness in at, say, All right. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We are at a point we're going to go ahead and break for the day. So we're going to be back here at nine o'clock Monday morning for a continuation of the evidence in this case. Now we're breaking for the weekend. OK, so let me just remind you the instructions that I've given you. Again, do not discuss this case with anyone. Do not go looking for any information about the case. And don't let anybody discuss this case with you or approach you about the case. Don't let anybody talk about it in your presence of here. Don't go picking up newspapers. Don't go looking at social media. If you're out and about over the weekend and you are around people that are talking about the case or want to talk about the case, you need to walk away. You need to make sure that that doesn't happen. And if it does, you need to go ahead and notify the court when you return on Monday. So everybody understand the court's instructions nods from everybody. All right. With that, thank you for the week. Thank you for participating in this case with us here in the Superior Court of Glynn County. I appreciate your time and I appreciate your attention. We'll see you Monday. [16:36:15][0.0]
Archived Unity File