Summary

***FULL INTERVIEW CAN BE DOWNLOADED HERE:***

https://f.io/5xmMKyaY

--SUPERS--
:40
Joumana Haddad
Lebanese Author and Human Rights Activist

1:42
Christiane Amanpour
London

--LEAD IN--
THERE ARE SOME RARE GREEN SHOOTS of HOPE IN THE MIDDLE EAST TODAY (THURSDAY).
AMERICAN ENVOYS, LIKE CIA DIRECTOR BILL BURNS IS IN THE REGION, MAKING ANOTHER PUSH FOR CEASEFIRES BETWEEN ISRAEL AND GAZA, WITH A DEAL TO END THE WAR IN LEBANON POTENTIALLY IMMINENT.
IT COULDN'T COME SOON ENOUGH FOR CIVILIANS IN THE COUNTRY.
THOUSANDS OF LEBANESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL BEGAN TRADING FIRE LAST YEAR, AND MORE THAN A MILLION HAVE BEEN DISPLACED.
IN A RECENT PIECE FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, THE LEBANESE JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR JOUMANA HADDAD SAYS, THIS SUFFERING IS NOTHING NEW, IN FACT THEY'VE BEEN FORCED TO ENDURE IT FOR DECADES.
SHE JOINED CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR FROM BEIRUT.

**ATTENTION AFFILIATES: BELOW IS A ROUGH TRANSCRIPTION PROVIDED BY AN AUTOMATED SERVICE. THIS MAY NOT BE EXACT. PLEASE CHECK FOR ACCURACY BEFORE TAKING TO AIR.**
Welcome to the program, Joumana. Thank you Christiane. Many thanks for having me. Well, we were so interested because you wrote this piece. I'm just gonna, you know, the title was, we took pride in our resilience, not anymore. And Lebanon has always been known as sort of the plucky nation that, that managed constantly to rise like a phoenix from all the. But you say I've witnessed so many wars and tragedies here that I sometimes feel 100 years old. So just let's start by you explaining why this one seemed so different and so much heavier than the last that you remember. Well, as you know, uh Christiane, the last five years in Lebanon have been hellish enough. We had a popular uprising that did not amount to the real change. We were hoping for, we had an economic collapse that led people to lose their life savings to banks. We had a port explosion that literally shattered most of our capital and a political stalemate that's been suffocating the country for years and in which I have to say Hezbollah was playing a huge role and this is only our recent history starting in 1975. We had a horrific civil war, a series of assassinations and explosions, several confrontations between Israel and Hezbollah. And I can tell you many of us Lebanese are thinking now, you've got to be kidding me. We thought we had reached the bottom of the pit already, but the pit seems to be bottomless. I mean, why can't we just live instead of surviving? I'm sure. I mean, Sisyphus at this point would, would say enough is enough. I'm not climbing up that mountain with the rock on my, on my shoulders again. Do you think? I mean, that sounds like you've all given up hope. You know, I just said, and the Americans and even the acting Prime Minister in Lebanon that potentially for your country, there is an imminent ceasefire in the works. Well, I mean, despite all the talk about a cease fire and a potential agreement, like you said, the bombing isn't stopping and there's a great deal of uncertainty about what's coming next. We already know the heavy price of war, but who knows what the price of a ceasefire will be? Who knows which deals are now being struck under the table at our expenses as Lebanese, certainly not us. And also I would like to say this, this is not a fight between good and evil, like both parties try to make it sound. This is a fight over power and influence in the Middle East. This is a fight meant to teach a lesson to put the opposite party in its place. A fight meant to prove who's got the strongest muscles. And, and instead of this fight happening fully on the lands of the two parties concerned. And I mean, Israel and Iran, it is mainly happening yet again on our land here in Lebanon. I mean, Israel and Iran are hitting each other so gently and precisely that you think they are lovers having an argument and most probably this is what they are. Uh Meanwhile, we are being arbitrarily destroyed, thousands of innocent people are slaughtered and millions displaced, forced to live in terror and insecurity. They are causing each other minor bruises while they are causing us full devastation. And I so want to tell them and many people as well, we are done being your sandbox or your playground, Jomana that is very impassioned and very colorful in terms of painting a picture of what you're feeling and what Lebanese civilians are feeling. Um, tell me a little bit about, you know, obviously the Israelis say that they're going after Hezbollah. But we know that areas, uh you know, hospitals are in some of the kill zone areas and they have been damaged and a lot of people have been killed, journalists have been killed. What are you seeing, I guess different maybe than the last time Israel was, was at war in your country. I mean, I believe that uh this time they are not uh, to, um, uh, uh, to stop, I mean, I, I really, I mean, we cannot afford the luxury of optimism and maybe this is where, uh, what I'm saying is coming from. But at the same time, I refuse to believe that there was no political alternative to this disaster that, that we are going through. I mean, Netanyahu keeps saying he wants to get rid of Iran's tentacles in the region, whether it's Hamas or Hezbollah or the Houthis. But why doesn't he cut the head of the octopus directly? Instead, I'm sure he knows that if he only cuts the tentacles, new tentacles will grow again later. So why does he spend days and weeks consulting on how to hit Iran? But when it comes to hit Lebanon, he's hitting savagely and without hesitation as for Khamenei, he has the nerve and the insolence to keep telling the Lebanese to resist, to go on, on fighting the big uh you know Satan that is Israel and the US. So basically he, he's telling us to keep dying for him and for Iran, why doesn't he fight them directly? Instead these are the questions that I'm hearing around me. Why doesn't he fight them for real? Instead of doing his laughable state? Its just to save face. Why doesn't he send his men to die? Why doesn't he tell his women and Children that it's OK to lose everything for the sake of the great cause I think they're all liars, hypocrites and criminals. Pardon my language. You, you, you're talking specifically about uh Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who's the head of the Iranian regime. Um So I want to pick up on that because, you know, you don't often hear that what you're saying from, from civilians in, in, in that part of the world and you just expressed real frustration with Hezbollah just in a couple of answers before and you implicated them heavily in the disaster that's befallen your country. So you let me hear what it is, particularly that you're angry at Hezbollah about. Well, I mean, uh not to mention, first of all, they have held the state hostage for more than two decades now, this is, this is for one and uh they have dragged us into a war uh that is costing us too many innocent lives, too much destruction. Uh And I want to also responsibilies the Lebanese politicians because they also are responsible, they are completely ineffective. They have been ineffective and they have been caught in the quagmire of self interest for so many years now. Uh uh instead of prioritizing welfare and relief. Now, debates are often about power plays and political gains. I mean, Christiane, I'm so sad for my fellow countrymen and women, sad for those who are against Hezbollah because they are getting their supposedly break out from Hezbollah's violent grip uh through an even more violent entity and who knows what will be coming after Hezbollah anyway, if the Lebanese people and leaders don't get their shit together ASAP and unite to build a strong democratic state that wouldn't allow for similar militias to form and grow anymore. You know, monsters tend to procreate quite fast and their offspring turns out to be worse than they ever were. And on the other hand, I'm also sad for the Lebanese who have always been hard Hezbollah supporters because it doesn't seem like they have learned their lesson. They are still in full denial mode and they have also paid too high price for their allegiance to Iran via its proxy, Hezbollah. They have been brainwashed generation after generation with the use of religion. You know, the most efficient brainwash that ever existed to believe that life amounts to death and that they should just close their eyes and surrender blindly to whatever they were being told. They truly believe that they are waging a righteous and victorious fight. But if victory is, is more uh is, is just a million displaced, whole towns destroyed, thousands dead and injured, then honestly, I would choose defeat. This is not the price of war, this is the price of arrogance of the arrogance of Hezbollah, of the ideological extremism of Hezbollah, of the indifference towards the lives of innocents and considering human being mere wood for the fire. Not to mention the uh uh a criminal uh uh Zionist government that is waging an absolutely inhumane war on the Lebanese without any differentiation between those who are mere pawns in the game. Let me say just mere civilians who are innocent and those who are truly responsible for what we are going through. You. You're obviously referring to the Israeli government. I, I just wanna ask you something because, you know, you're so angry about the various different, as you said, factions in your country that have held you hostage and, and, and, and prevented you from, from real stability. You know, the Israeli government talks about reshaping the Middle East and what they're doing in Lebanon and, and all over is can only be to the benefit of the whole region. What would you say to that? I doubt that. I doubt that. Um I mean, uh if the war ends and I'm not sure about that, I'm really worried about what's going to happen on the inside in Lebanon because we will be left with a huge problem, how to deal with Hezbollah, how to really rebuild with a, I mean, let me say it a political corrupt elite that is actually doing nothing and has done nothing to build a really strong state. We are now paying the price of what this corrupt political elite has been doing for years. So uh this all this talk about reshaping the Middle East and uh and making Netanyahu sound like uh the Liberator of the Lebanese. Uh It makes me even more angry and frustrated. He is not a Liberator. He is a criminal. I repeat there should have been, there could have been a political solution to this problem to the problem in the region. But nobody wanted this. And let's not forget that war is also a lucrative business. It's very cynical. Politics are very cynical and many people are making money out of this. They are getting a financial gains, power gains and we have to admit it. We're not naive anymore. We know what's happening. I want to ask you because you personally, your family comes from a village in uh in southern Lebanon, it's called Yaroun and it has been incredibly hard hit and I think southern Lebanon, lots of parts of it are believed to be Hezbollah strongholds. Um We've got pictures of, you know, it's been reduced to clusters of gray craters according to, to Reuters and your father is buried there. Um According to his wishes, how do you know anything about what's happening to that village where you come from? Your family comes from? It almost doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't exist anymore and many other villages and towns are the same. Um Obviously, um I mean, there are, I'm not denying the fact that there are tunnels under those towns and that there are weapons hidden under civilians. I'm not saying that, but is this really the solution? I mean, Israel keeps saying that it's the only democracy in the Middle East. Is this how democracy works is this justice with this genocide, genocide after genocide? I mean, let me tell you something, uh something that I'm hearing a lot from people around me. Uh How many times can a person uh build uh and stand up ever after being knocked down again and again, it's, it's, I, I have to say it's unbelievable. It's un intolerable the times that we have like yo has been destroyed so many times before my father's village and people are always expected to rebuild. But how, how many times can you rebuild your home and your life and your dream and your ability to dream? Uh uh I know we have the reputation of being resilient. You mentioned that uh because I talked, spoke about it in my article. Uh And that's like a cat. Our country has many lives, but we are tired, tired to get up and get knocked down again and again, I can feel this exhaust all around me. Many people have already left the country, entire families, beloved sons and daughters, beloved grandsons and granddaughters. How many more it's like, again, we have to realize how much our geography in Lebanon is a curse to us. Jomana Haddad. Thank you so much for that visceral eyewitness experience and testimony. Thank you very much for joining us, Joumana.
-----END-----CNN.SCRIPT-----

--KEYWORD TAGS--
IN- INTERVIEW LEBANON ISRAEL WAR GAZA PALESTINE

--MUSIC INFO---