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Interview with John Loftus pt 1
INTERVIEWER: Tell me your full name and spell it. 10:01:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: John Loftus L-O-F as in Frank T- U- S as in Sam. INTERVIEWER: And do you have a title or a role? 10:10:17>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Ah former federal prosecutor and historian. INTERVIEWER: How did you come to be interested in a topic as specific as the topic anti-Semitism? 10:20:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I was working for the Attorney General of the United States when I really first came across Antisemitism. I had been assigned to do the CIA cases and the Nazi war crimes cases. Then one day I discovered that many of the Nazi's I'd been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll and had been covered up for years. I ended up being a whistle blower, appeared on 60 minutes, and testifying before congress. Um it was only when I was working on those Nazi war crimes cases did I realize the extent of Antisemitism not only in Europe but in the United States. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE 11:10:21>>> JOHN LOFTUS: As I went through State Department and American Intelligence files I found a lot of direct references that could be called Antisemitism. You know references like oily Jews in State Department reports. You know outright anti-Semitic language. I think it was very common among Ivy league campuses in the 20's and 30's to have a certain anti-Semitic background. And a lot of that permeated the State Department when they went on. Also the fact that many of the Arabic scholars came from very conservative Christian missionary schools in the Middle East. Brought with them a very tainted background on how they perceived Israel. INTERVIEWER: How did this affect the US policies? 11:55:23>>> JOHN LOFTUS: For a long time it was ambivalent. The American people always supported Israel. But for the better part of the 20th century we had a different foreign policy in the State Department and Intelligence Community. And there response was whatever you might say in public about liking the Jews it really is in America's long-term national interest to obtain the cheap and consistent supply of oil. The Arabs had it the Jews didn't. It's as simple as that. it really wasn't about Antisemitism or bigotry it was about greed. You know the old joke if Moses had turned right and settled in Kuwait we probably would have made Israel the 51st state but Israel had no oil and became expendable to American and European reproach --- with the Arabs. INTERVIEWER: But you don't really believe that that's the case that Israel should be seen as expendable INAUDIBLE? 12:50:28>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The American public certainly doesn't see Israel as expendable or as an irritant or in fact the proof is that we non Jews consistently elect congressmen and senators who give more of our tax dollars to Israel every year than any other nation on earth. The American people are solidly on Israel's side. The problem is multinational oil companies sometimes have greater access to the corridors of power than the average citizen. INTERVIEWER: Why do you think the American people are solidly on the side of Israel? 13:22:29>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Well I think the American people understand the basic truth of the situation. Here was a people who belong on their land. They're a democracy. The only democracy in the Middle East. Um and we've always had a soft heart for the underdog. INTERVIEWER: Why do you think despite all the soviet spies outright spies INAUDIBLE and yet Jonathan pollard there seems to be a quiet refusal to adjust the case what is so mysterious? 13:59:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: My next book is about Jonathan Pollard. I'm using his case to illuminate what's going on in the Middle East now. Pollard wanted to be a knight on a white horse and save Israel. He knew that America was holding back information. And what he did was wrong and stupid but pollard wandered into a mind field. He was being framed by the soviets for a terrible intelligence disaster that coincidentally happened the same time. we lost all our agents behind the iron curtain. America had gone blind. We were not prepared for a
INTERVIEWER: Tell me your full name and spell it. 10:01:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: John Loftus L-O-F as in Frank T- U- S as in Sam. INTERVIEWER: And do you have a title or a role? 10:10:17>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Ah former federal prosecutor and historian. INTERVIEWER: How did you come to be interested in a topic as specific as the topic anti-Semitism? 10:20:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I was working for the Attorney General of the United States when I really first came across Antisemitism. I had been assigned to do the CIA cases and the Nazi war crimes cases. Then one day I discovered that many of the Nazi's I'd been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll and had been covered up for years. I ended up being a whistle blower, appeared on 60 minutes, and testifying before congress. Um it was only when I was working on those Nazi war crimes cases did I realize the extent of Antisemitism not only in Europe but in the United States. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE 11:10:21>>> JOHN LOFTUS: As I went through State Department and American Intelligence files I found a lot of direct references that could be called Antisemitism. You know references like oily Jews in State Department reports. You know outright anti-Semitic language. I think it was very common among Ivy league campuses in the 20's and 30's to have a certain anti-Semitic background. And a lot of that permeated the State Department when they went on. Also the fact that many of the Arabic scholars came from very conservative Christian missionary schools in the Middle East. Brought with them a very tainted background on how they perceived Israel. INTERVIEWER: How did this affect the US policies? 11:55:23>>> JOHN LOFTUS: For a long time it was ambivalent. The American people always supported Israel. But for the better part of the 20th century we had a different foreign policy in the State Department and Intelligence Community. And there response was whatever you might say in public about liking the Jews it really is in America's long-term national interest to obtain the cheap and consistent supply of oil. The Arabs had it the Jews didn't. It's as simple as that. it really wasn't about Antisemitism or bigotry it was about greed. You know the old joke if Moses had turned right and settled in Kuwait we probably would have made Israel the 51st state but Israel had no oil and became expendable to American and European reproach --- with the Arabs. INTERVIEWER: But you don't really believe that that's the case that Israel should be seen as expendable INAUDIBLE? 12:50:28>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The American public certainly doesn't see Israel as expendable or as an irritant or in fact the proof is that we non Jews consistently elect congressmen and senators who give more of our tax dollars to Israel every year than any other nation on earth. The American people are solidly on Israel's side. The problem is multinational oil companies sometimes have greater access to the corridors of power than the average citizen. INTERVIEWER: Why do you think the American people are solidly on the side of Israel? 13:22:29>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Well I think the American people understand the basic truth of the situation. Here was a people who belong on their land. They're a democracy. The only democracy in the Middle East. Um and we've always had a soft heart for the underdog. INTERVIEWER: Why do you think despite all the soviet spies outright spies INAUDIBLE and yet Jonathan pollard there seems to be a quiet refusal to adjust the case what is so mysterious? 13:59:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: My next book is about Jonathan Pollard. I'm using his case to illuminate what's going on in the Middle East now. Pollard wanted to be a knight on a white horse and save Israel. He knew that America was holding back information. And what he did was wrong and stupid but pollard wandered into a mind field. He was being framed by the soviets for a terrible intelligence disaster that coincidentally happened the same time. we lost all our agents behind the iron curtain. America had gone blind. We were not prepared for a soviet attack. The soviets made it appear as if Jonathan Pollard gave that information to Israel and then a Russian spy in Israel leaked it back. So many people at the time including me we thought that Jonathan Pollard was a serial killer you know . It turns out it was a complete fraud and every one had been taken. The real betrayers were Aldridge Ames and Robert Hanssen 2 highly placed officials inside our own bureaucracy. 15:03:02>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So instead of studying the drunken wasp and the Russians sent us to chase the Jew boy and everybody fell for it. So but the Russian frame wasn't Pollard's only problem he had problems with some right wing politicians in Israel as well. And they had been lobbying for years to keep him locked up. so it's a very complex story. I'm going to be breaking a lot of it in my new book and some magazine articles that will be published in June. INTERVIEWER: Please repeat that answer. 15:55:05>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Jonathan Pollard really was a young man who blundered into a 3 way cross fire and didn't know. he was aware that US intelligence was withholding promised information from Israel. Um that were actually (PAUSE) So what he did was wrong and stupid but you know his intentions were to help Israel by sending soviet information um soviet supplies to terrorist groups. Primarily that was his goal. The soviets in turn framed Pollard for something else. The real reason his sentence was so extreme was that we were tricked by the soviets into believe that Jonathan Pollard had given Israel a list of all our agents inside Russia. And that a Russian agent in Israel then got a hold of information passed it to Moscow. And in the course of a few months every spy we had behind the iron curtain was captured or killed. It was the worst intelligence disaster in American history. And all the evidence pointed to Jonathan pollard. We couldn't admit that in court because it would ah we couldn't reveal that America had gone blind. That the Russians could attack without warning. We had no intelligences assets left. 17:13:02>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So that was the reason for the sudden change an attitude and why everyone went after him. to us he was a serial killer. It turns out pollard didn't do it. Um the real traders were a drunken wasp inside the CIA named Aldridge Ames and his counter part in the FBI named Robert Hanssen. They had both arrested and have now confessed that they sold the news. But the intelligence community doesn't want to admit a blunder of this magnitude. And so pollard ah is sitting in jail. He should have received a sentence of 15 years out in 3. he's now on his 18th year in prison. INTERVIEWER: As far as the Israel situation today what do you think is motivating the State Department and it's policy? 18:09:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Well I think it was. the State Department's policy towards Israel has pretty much Arab appeasement. After 9/11 all that's changed. Israel has quietly been working as a major player in the American wind up to the war with Iraq. Um last summer the king of Jordan allowed us to set up a joint Israeli American airbase on the border with Iraq. And for 6 months we had Israeli pilots flying those Apache helicopters that we gave Israel and they had been mapping the terrain every night all across Iraq looking for missile sites buried, weapon things. And it was very, very helpful. But 3 months later we started to insert American special forces on the ground all over Iraq. Again with Israel's help. Israel has actually had 2 sites in the negative where they've been secretly training American troops in urban warfare at night against biological and chemical weapons. 19:11:17>>> JOHN LOFTUS: And the training has been invaluable. Um American technology has evolved rapidly even since the Afghanistan's war and we've taken a couple of pages out of some of the Israeli strategy book., INTERVIEWER: Do you have no more contacts with Intelligence? 19:31:08>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Um for the last 20 years I have been a lawyer for every whistle blower in the pentagon and the CIA and um I have to screen material before publication but ah you know my clients pay me a dollar a piece. So I have about 500 senior people in the intelligence community that give me information. So I'm probably the worst paid lawyer in America but I'm among the best informed. There is very little that I don't hear about at some point. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE USS Liberty? 20:06:28>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The myth was that ah you know that Israel hit the ship by accident. INTERVIEWER: Start with Israel hit? 20:13:27>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Oh. There have been a lot of myths about the Israel ah. There have been a lot of myths about Israel's attack on the USS Liberty. Ah many members on the crew feel that the, the liberty was intentionally attack to disguise an ongoing Israeli atrocity. Israelis say that publicly that the attack was a mistake. The truth is something else. In my last book The Secret War Against the Jews I interview people on all sides. What happened is that the Liberty was sent off the coast of Israel to monitor Israeli military communications and to give them to the Arabs. We were helping the Egyptians to prepare a counter attack. What the and Lyndon Johnson wanted to throw the Arabs a bone give them a little intelligence help under the table so they'd still stay friends with us. The, Lyndon Johnson didn't know that the Israelis had a spy on the Egyptian general staff. 21:18:00>>> JOHN LOFTUS: And learned of the Liberty's role within a few hours. A hot debate took place in the tunnel in Israel and ah about what to do about the Liberty. One faction wanted to sink the ship. One bomb would have put it in the bottom of the Mediterranean in seconds. But then the Ramatcall Isaac Rubin said Lyndon Johnson might be at war with Israel but the American people are not. And Rubin wanted to compromise. In order to save Israeli lives they would have to put the Liberty spy gear out of commission but it had to be done with a minimum loss of American lives. That's why the raid on the Liberty took place in 3 different stages. The first group of planes buzzed the ship and um so the American sailors would have time to get below decks and button themselves up out of harms way. the scorned group put maypon rockets on the spying antennas on top of the ship and burned them all out. the third group came in torpedo boats but they only fired one torpedo precisely into the one water tight hold where the Liberty spy computer was. So every piece of espionage gear was knocked out. 90 % of the American crew survived. It was the best the Israelis could do. then the Israelis called in their American counter part and told them what they had done to the Liberty and why. And Lyndon Johnson asked the government of Israel to pretend it was all a mistake. Johnson reimbursed Israel under the table for all the compensation it paid for the ship. INTERVIEWER: Do you see any comparison in the Arab in the wake of the 9/11 attacks? 23:07:22>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think there are a lot of parallels between modern Antisemitism and pre World War II Antisemitism. Um after World War I um the a fisal(?) was prepared to have a Jewish national home established and they would publish papers and Mecca Madean was saying we should welcome the Jews back it would be good for industry and they have a right to live in this land. British intelligence was furious and so they organized anti-Semitic riots systematically in the 20's and 30's to create enough of an uproar to force a reversal in British policy. So that Antisemitism was really engineered from the outside. There were ah Syrian fanatic named Isadine was sent down in the 30's to lead a terrorist attack against Israel. In fact they've named the Isadine a Hamas brigades after him. He's INTERVIEWER: Inaudible? 24:02:06>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Yeah Acasam. Isidine A, Isidine Ahasam is the sort of the patriot saint if you will of Islamic terrorists and very few people realize that many of these early programs were organized by French and British, primarily British intelligence against the greaman(?), against the, the Jews. Then the Germans came in. there was a militant Nazi party flourishing in Egypt um that later became known as the Muslim brotherhood. It really had Nazi roots. Even after the war there was a, a Nazi propagandist who was allowed to move to Cairo to keep the movement flourishing. I see it more of an evolution that Antisemitism is cyclical. And it always comes back if someone is willing to make a profit off it. And there have nations have have funded anti-Semitic movements, anti-Israeli movements for a long, long time. the classic case is Yassar Arafat. What's his real name? Most people don't know. it's Abdullah Husani. His clan was the Nazi clan of Jerusalem. Their home was bulldozed and is now part of the great plaza facing the western wall. 25:19:23>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So first they worked for the Nazi. And then in the 50's they defected and went to work for the communists. And now of course Arafat is a noble prize winner. But ah the whole concept of Antisemitism if fundamentally repugnant to Islam. If ah you go back and read the sins of the prophet Mohamed Rea you find a very different view. Mohammed honored Jews. He married a Jew, he forbade prosecution of Jews, he would stand up and bow when a Jewish passed. The Koran says explicitly that the children of Israel shall live in their land till the end of time when Allah will gather them all together. And Mohamed specifically said the Jews will have their holy place in the West meaning Jerusalem while we will have ours in the East meaning Mecca. Um in the several first centuries of the Calafet(?) there was an extraordinary bond between the Jews and the Muslims. They were both people of the book. They were the only 2 societies on earth that required literacy to practice their faiths. 26:24:15>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So there was a great deal of interplay and cooperation between them. when we Christians were having our dark ages the Jews and Muslims were having a golden age. If you wanted to go to law school or med school you went to a Muslim in Spain and were taught by a Jewish professor. That was the age of Momoties(?). It wasn't perfect but it was a, a very splendid society. Then about 3 centuries ago the Arab Muslims decided they could control (PHONE) INTERVIEWER: Ok 27:00:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: About 3 centuries ago the Arab dictators decided they could control their people better if they banned the printing press. Now the Muslim faith depended upon literacy. And Mohamed said the Koran is a beautiful but ambiguous poem. It can be interpreted in 72 different ways and 71 of them will be false. Well if you can't read the Hadith encyclopedia of all the witnesses that knew Mohammed during his life you can't understand it. What happened when they banned the printing press was that the peasants were easy to control but they were also easier to manipulate religiously. They could take quotes from the Koran out of context and make it appear as though Mohamed favored the persecution of Jews. Ah and it was a very successful campaign. In any religious the Tarah (PAUSE)and the Koran you can take passages out of context and give them a very different spin. So for 300 years one group in particular the Whabies totally abused the Koran to stand it on its head and to use it as an instrument of warfare and a mandate for anti-Semitism. Whabieism was condemned as a heracy(?) more than 60 times for the Muslims but it prospered largely because the Whabies attacked Mecca and Medina and ah established a new kingdom the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. 28:26:01>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So here we have quite frankly one of the greatest groups of bigots of all time blessed with an unimaginable wealth. It was as if David Duke captured the state of Texas and used it to export the Klu Klux Klan. The Klu the Whabieism ah is the Klu Klux Klan of the Muslim world. They were 1.2 billion Muslims only 15% of them are Arabs. Only a tiny percentage are Whabies. But their enormous wealth has had a huge impact on the world. Only 2 nations every really practiced Whabieism Saudi Arabia and the Taliban. And um what the Saudis have been doing is taking their oil money and exporting Whabieism across America around the world. 80% of American mosque are financially dependent on Saudi subsidies for their survival. In return the Saudis get to name who the religious instructors are. They set things called the World Association of Muslim Youth. So Bin Ladin's brothers were the coordinators of it. 29:28:17>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So it was a talent spotting outfit from the most extreme elements of the Arab society. The Saudi approach was very simple ah we're gonna bribe our clerks into looking the other way while we go to Paris to go to brothels. We're also going to bribe the terrorist into staying out of Saudi Arabia and go blow up someone else. And so on 9/11 we found out that we were someone else. And all the years and years of turning a blind eye to Saudi support for terrorism suddenly evaporated. One intelligence official told me that ah we knew for years that the Saudis were funding terrorism but they were selling us oil at a discount besides they were only killing Jews. They weren't killing Americans. Well that kind of bigoted indifference yeah lay amid the rubble on September 11th. But that was the genuine attitude. You know we knew the Saudis were doing but we'd close our eyes to it. Did we know that the Saudis were hiring groups to attack Israel? Absolutely we knew it all. INTERVIEWER: If it wasn't for the US policy in the Middle East it would have been someone else had the US not been as a supporter of Israel is that accurate do you believe? 30:45:12>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think that from the Saudi point of view and the Whabie point of view the ultimately enemy really isn't Israel it's western democracies. It's modernism. You know whether it's in France or Britain that these societies the societies have to be destroyed. They want total right wing Muslim domination of the world. That is literally what they believe in. and they are willing to use any means including terrorism to attain it. Not all Saudis. half of the royal Saudi family are very friendly to us. They keep selling us their oil and their kids go to college here. But the right wing group that's now coming into power is extremely right wing. And they have been behind some of the most violent acts in recent years. So I've rounded up a group of lawyers in America last April and I said why don't we file a lawsuit against the Saudi loyal family a class action on behalf of all the victims of 911 I'll give you all the evidence and line up all the experts. And I'll do it for free I do all my legal work for free. But ah so we did it on august 15th we filed a 1 trillion dollar lawsuit against the Saudi royal family, Saudi banks, Saudi charities. They had a whole system for money laundering that directly supported the attackers on 911. INTERVIEWER: Were there any warnings that the State Department and the intelligence community heard? 32:18:00>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Well prior to 911 it wasn't that we failed to connect the dots we were telling the people out in the field don't send us anymore dots. And we all there was a hold on any investigation of the Saudis and the Saudis link to terrorism. Oliver North said every time that I tried to do something about terrorist in the Middle East I was told to stop because it'll embarrass he Saudis. The Saudi oil wealth and its alliance with out State Department was so pervasive that there was an article of faith in the CIA and the FBI a good way to ruin your career is to talk about the Saudis and terrorism. Everybody at senior levels knew and they were doing their best to suppress it. To keep a lid on it the story. So there will be a day of reckoning as people start, if congress is really serious about investigation how we came to this they we find scores of FBI and CIA agents who say you know I tried to warn them and no one would listen. Al Qaeda expert John O'Neil went around Washington banging on doors saying this man Osmo Bin Laden is a mad man he's going to attack America he's gonna kill people and the Saudis are funding it. And everyone told him to go away. So John quit the FBI in disgust and 2 weeks later he was at new job as chief of security at the twin trade towers and died in the attack. 33:44:19>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The irony is that the person best equipped to blow the lid on how the bureaucrats in Washington were covering up the Saudi al Qaeda was himself killed by Al Qaeda on 911. INTERVIEWER: Inaudible 34:16:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Yeah I think the Saudi point of view was that they would fund any group that would be anti Israel. See Israel had done something that really offended the Saudis. Whatever else they may have done the Israelis took every Palestinian kid and put him in school. From kindergarten to university. 16 new universities on the West Bank alone. So for the first time in 300 years Israel created a literate Arab class. The literacy rate among Palestinians is 97%. Among the highest in the entire Arab world. The Palestinians were exposed to western business practices, western values to democracy. And it looked as the soviet union collapsed that no one was funding terrorism that a peace treaty might appear and there was a brief lull of Oslo where it looked like there might be a Palestinian nation at peace with Israel and it would be the first Arab democracy. 35:10:12>>> JOHN LOFTUS: King Fahad was determined to stop that. he said next to the Jews we hate the Palestinians the most. The Palestinians would be a cancer in the Arab world because they would be a self ruling people that couldn't be under the thumbs of the dictators. So what the Saudis did was to go around run up all the groups that had previously been funded by the communist and take them over. Groups like the Palestinian Islamic jihad came on the Saudi payroll in the 80's. and Islamic jihad's role was not just to kill Jews but to kill any Palestinian who was willing to work with Israel for peace or to recognize the state of Israel. So every time that Israel and the Palestinians got close to a peace agreement the Saudis would wreck it by funneling more money through their charity pipelines. And groups like Islamic jihad would send in suicide bombers to blow the peace apart. So the Saudi strategy was to block the creation of a Palestinian state. They were betraying their Arab brothers. They had to do it secretly through a cutout through charities and fund groups like Hamas and Islamic jihad to wreck the peace process. A very cynical strategy. INTERVIEWER: So it's not the Americans and the Israelis INAUDIBLE? 36:26:08>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Yes democracy will be a cancer in the Arab peninsula. As soon as the first Arab democracy is established very state will ah clamor. Ah who would ever elect the Saudi royal family to be their rulers. They have no popular support. I think ah as we establish a western democracy in Iraq that will greatly change the entire political structure of that land. You'll have a chain of secular Muslim states from turkey through Iraq, through Jordan and it will cut the Arabia peninsula down the middle and the separate the rouge states of Iran and Syria. And how long will their dictators last ah with American funded propaganda on their borders beating radio and TV signals in. I think the world is gonna be changing very rapidly. I think that America's finally recognizing that we don't need the oil as much as we need good strong democracies in the Middle East. We need more Israel's. Let the people decide their own lives. INTERVIEWER: When it comes to the war on terror how do you see it concerning the US and Israel. Is one side showing too much restraint, not enough? 37:52:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Historically America has always twisted Israel's arm to show restraint on its war on terrorism. Um and I think that Israel has done remarkable. I mean sending in ground troops to Jenin was nothing short of heroic you know that we would minimize civilian causalities um despite the Arab propaganda there was a massacre in Jenin um it turns out there wasn't it was a massive hoax. The American approach in Afghanistan was not to send in ground troops but to use smart bombs. You know had we gone into a Jenin situation we would have leveled it. and then poked with a crater that there were al Qaeda there. Um so there are differences in approach. The new American strategy in the Iraq war is pretty sophisticated though. In Afghanistan we had ah green berets on horseback in with the tribesmen with cell phones and they would call up to the B52 bomber 5 miles up to drop bombs ahead of them. well in Iraq the real key technology is that we're not using cell phones we're using palm pilots. A little device you point it at an Iraqi tank 5 kilometers away and press a button. A laser beam measures it's coordinates, automatically dials up to the B-52 and instantly programs the smart bomb computer. And the smart bomb then steers itself down 5 miles and hits within 3 meters of the center of the tank. 39:11:14>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So there will be fewer civilian causalities because of these tremendous technological advances. But ah in the long run the only way to stop terrorism is to cut off the funding. Terrorism is a very expensive industry. And it is an industry. It takes a million dollars per operation on average. It's not just the cost of you know dynamite and a suicide bombers belt. You have to have the safe house, the trainers, the recruiters, transportation, documents. Very expensive and if we want terrorism to stop we have to tell the Saudis to stop funding it. We have to clamp down those nations like ah Afghanistan and Iraq that have become safe havens for terrorism. Now there are fewer and fewer places on the planet where terrorist can regroup, set up training schools and find a safe haven for killing. So we're changing the rules. We're not twisting Israel's arm anymore we're twisting Arab arms to become democratic states because nations that have democracies very rarely indulge in terrorism or engage in war. INTERVIEWER: Can you talk about pre world war II Arab sympathy versus today's views towards them? 40:30:14>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think before world war II the Arabian peninsula was a loose conglomeration of you know clans the British called them tribes with flags. But they generally had no sense of pan Arab nationalism that was largely created by the British foreign office to try and group all the Arabs back together. The idea was to drive the French out of Syria and ah you know make Arabia safe for the British oil companies. I think that the Antisemitism that existed was actually imported in many ways. Inside Palestine for example most of the Palestinians had gotten along well with the Jews. They were happy to see more Jewish immigration because it was bringing in jobs. It was a literally an empty land. Years of plagues and um had decimated Jerusalem for example ah up until the civil war all that was there was the old city. And um it could hold 6 times as many inhabitants. With Jewish immigration came renovations and you know sewer systems and water lines and it ended the plagues that use to ah to discriminate the populations. 41:45:01>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The Arab populations actually moved into Israel along with waves of Al-- - because there was work there and an incredible amount of religious tones. Ah many people don't realize that between 1948 when the Jordanians seized the city and 67 the Jews were persecuted. Jewish homes were burned down. Families that had lived in a Jewish home for centuries their synagogues were destroyed. Jews were not allowed to worship at all. In 67 when Israel took Jerusalem they opened up the temple to people of all faiths for free access. I think it was the very compassionate and tolerant nature of Israeli society had a dramatic impact on their peace with their Arab neighbors. But again terrorism had to be exported. And back in the 20's they would bring people in from Iraq for terrorism or from Syria. Um Arafat ah really operated almost entirely from foreign bases except for one brief 3 year period he wasn't even in Palestine. INTERVIEWER: What do you think is motivating the Israeli Palestinian conflict today from within? 43:10:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I'm a cynic. I think that money is at the root of all racism. Arafat for example is all about money. I mean he'll any flavor you want. he was a Nazi once now he's a communist now he's you know pro American. The Israeli counsel general told me that Arafat doesn't ever want to have a Palestinian nation because if he does he won't be able to steal 20% of the PA's budget he'll have an opposition party. He'll have budgets. He'll have accountability and audits. So Arafat ironically is betraying his own people to wreck peace plans. Every time they get close his goal is the status quo to enrich his clan. He's about the money. The money has an impact. There's a huge amount of unemployment among Palestinian youth and let's face it a lot of teenage boys are near social anyways its just the age they go through. And if someone says to them we're gonna give your family 35,000 dollars and you'll be a hero. You'll be a suicide bomber um your family will be taken care of for life and instead of being an unemployed bum you'll be this your family will revere you forever. Well some teenage boys will find that attractive because of the money. You take their money away and it won't happen. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE? 44:43:21>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The average Palestinian does just want to live their lives and coexist in peace. When I was doing interviews in the West Bank the refrain was very typical. All the people I spoke to said we don't want Arab extremist we don't want Jewish extremist we want the tourist back. They want jobs for their kids. They want a livelihood. The terrible price as people like Arafat and the Saudis have sandbagged the peace process and after Oslo the interfata has caused a huge loss in Palestinian income um by building a barrier around Israel to keep the Palestinians tradesmen out. It's causing a huge depression on Palestinian society. And poverty breeds hatred and fear. And there's just so many lives being split up and young kids get suckered into believing. Sometimes old nations too. France and Germany should be extremely embarrassed by their recent conduct. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE how could the US defeat this? 46:00:26>>> JOHN LOFTUS: In the short run the United States will obtain the INAUDIBLE of Arab radicals but so what. The real answer in the long run is education. That's why for several years I was the first Irish catholic president of the flora Holocaust museum. We have to education kids of all races and religions. That we must have a common bond against genesis. I think that by resorting freedom of speech and the press and resorting full pubic education throughout the Arab peninsula that alone will have a major impact. For example now the polls shows that 83% of the population of Iran wants the Mulas gone. They want to live in a democratic western society because they see it on TV. As much as we laugh at TV it has had a major impact on the Arab world. That ah you know the mulas tried to ban the satellite dishes in Iran because the kids were finding out there was oil in Iran. They wanted to know where the money was going. 47:01:02>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think ah you know as much as we knock CNN as the crescent news network it is penetrating Arab society. We need to more of that. I tell my Jewish friends that I think that Jews don't have the genes for public relations. There something missing in your DNA code. There should be you know Arab language broadcasting so that Israel's position gets out. we should have an organized effort to countenance the vast waves of lies that come out. um Israel now was the initiator of the 67 war and the 73 war. Absurd. A lot of kids don't know that the the UN withdrew broke every promise to Israel in 67. allowed the blockade action blockade the straits of Tehran. Refused to allow a ship to go I the panama canal even to carry Israel goods. Even if it was owned by a Christian being sent to another Christian. Every international agreement was violated. But Arab propaganda has had a tremendous effect. We've had an entire generation of bigots raised in the Middle East. And it's gonna take a long while for that to change.
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Sound
}