Summary

INTERVIEW CONTINUES: Pete Hamil statistics show that the average victim of black crime is a black woman about 21 years old. Black on Black crime is one of the great horrible facts of our existence right now. The numbers of crimes of blacks against whites is minuscule. When you look at the the population patterns of the city, it's really black on black crime. What what we're talking about here, though, is these are these young, very young kids question is what was that young woman doing in the park? It's what were they doing in the park. And if they were in the park, what motivated them to do this was breaks down almost every idea even on the street level, and I grew up on the streets, you know, in my neighborhood, if 10 People took turns on her with an unconscious woman's body, the gangsters would come and get us. This is unheard of behavior among New Yorkers. Now the opportunity is here, for a whole number of people, Dr. Pugh would probably have a better list, certainly than I would have to really study these kids, because finding out about these kids can't be limited to the criminal justice system. Cops are not equipped to find out what form these kids, defense lawyers and prosecutors are not equipped or interested in trying to find out what form them. But we must find out what is shaping these kids what those factors are, whether it's drugs or television of society, or the values that we're imparting another party if we don't, the 21st century in New York City is going to be a nightmare. It's bad enough right now. Clementine Pugh And Pete, I agree with you on that. I think it's very important to point out that the Kerner Commission Report indicted white racism. And since that point, we have been focusing on the victims. Nobody studies the people who prepare to weight the oppression. And I'm saying that if we're going to look at it, we have to look at it in a multifaceted, at least a dualistic way, we can't look only at one side and not at the other. AllRight? Pete Hamil Oh, I agree with that Clementine Pugh the reason that the society is myopic, and a historical and tends to put things aside until it moves into the majority culture is an important thing for white people to look at. Pete Hamil We also have to find out what the black middle class is doing when in terms of its responsibilities in this problem. Clementine Pugh But that's when you go with that when you go African on us rather than American. It is not a unique problem that has to be solved by the black middle class. And then you wrote an article Pete that I wanted to get to you on before we No no, the notion is that that problem has been created by the black middle class I'm not saying that oh, that's a black middle class has some special responsibility. They certainly have a responsibility Robert Lipsyte Let's stop. Tony Bouza, you're we're laughing at this, Anthony Bouza Why don't you guys spend a few minutes at a welfare hotel and watch the next group of monsters being raised and see what we're doing to them. Robert Lipsyte Now, when you keep using the word monsters, it seems like you're being provocative. We're talking about human beings, that something is being done to in this society. They weren't monsters when they were born. Were they? Anthony Bouza Well, I don't know. I think I think we a fellow in Chicago started trying to work with black kids and went to schools and then he decided that was too late. And then he went to Headstart program, and now he's working with pregnant teenage black young women. So maybe we have to think about prenatal care. The reality is our society is is a dualistic society and the overclass is sending its children to the ivy League's and the manufacturing excesses the overclass is consigning blacks to positions of such want and deprivation and unemployment and lack of education and opportunity, that it is manufacturing monsters and black males in America Robert Lipsyte You keep using that word. But but whatever we are, Tony, Tony, whenever we are, you know, whatever class, we're all imprisoned in this city together. You know, we had a we had a young man on the show Monday night who had gone wilding and talked about his dream, if he had money and the opportunity to get out of town. He doesn't want to live here anymore. I think a lot of people don't want to live here anymore. Clementine Pugh I think that's absolutely okay. I also think that the people who live in the inner cities, and there is an underclass living in the inner city, unless we are blind, we know that. But those people, many of them don't say I'm going home to the ghetto. I mean, they would like to see themselves living in a viable community, their problems are overwhelming, the problems are dismissed by and large. And I think it is significant to look at the kind of attention that this particular event is getting. Because it did happen to a white woman. I am not saying that to be racist. But I think you have to acknowledge the perception among many in the black community who would say that there are rapes committed upon black women almost every day, as I sit here, that would not get this kind of attention. Now I am I saying that it's not as heinous because it happened to a white woman. I'm not saying Robert Lipsyte I understand exactly what you're saying. What you are saying is that the white media jumped on it, because of what they saw is the vulnerability that the white man can no longer protect the white woman. And that was the great theory Pete Hamil I think, if it had been an exact duplicate of a black woman, a young black woman who had worked like hell gone to college had a job and a, you know, Salomon Brothers Robert Lipsyte We're out of time. And I hope I hope you're right. Pete Hamil And the horrendousness of this crime, it would have been in the Robert Lipsyte Thank you very much. Pete Hamil. Dr. Pugh, Chief Anthony Bouza. Thank you. Thank you very much for being with us.