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INTERVIEW CONTINUES: David Susskind 14:22 the thing that staggers my mind is that sex maybe we're conditioned this way but sex is a private intimate affair having to do with you Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 14:40 would you really say that? Did you really say that? All the all the massage parlors and prostitution David Susskind 14:45 those are aberrations those are sicknesses that those are Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 14:48 really it's it's not a sickness. David Susskind 14:52 love making an affair and sex is an intimate affair has been the orientation of all of us, right? In our schools take this. Now you take this deeply traumatic experience this very emotional, private thing. And you publicize it, you do it in public view. And you mix it up with strangers, and you watch and are watched. Isn't there something very sick about that? Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 15:25 No, David. David, David Susskind 15:28 you went as a journalist. Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 15:29 You are asking a Provocative rhetorical question. No, I don't believe David, you think it's sick? I don't I think you're trying to get us to react to that. And I will David Susskind 15:39 No I do think it's sick. No, I'm not not trying to get a reaction. I really do Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 15:39 It would be sick for you. But you in what you're giving us though. I think you are trying to David Susskind 15:48 Was it not sick for you. When you went. you went to report this? Mary Levinson 15:52 I think it's sick for a man to go To a prostitute? I think that sort of thing is sick, I think for a woman to lie to her husband and have the grocery boy entertain her in the afternoons. I think that's sick. Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 16:07 Okay, David, you You are what you're saying is it's unaesthetic not sick. It would mean disgust you. But you don't think it's a pathology these people yet I have seen are having fun. They are enjoying themselves. And there's no way you can attach the the the pathology of the label of sickness on them Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 16:27 Who can say what is sick and what is not? Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 16:28 The same way you can say this is sick, I could say your whole concept of society is sick, in your marriage of one of every two and a half marriages and divorce in this country. And the cheating and the Kinsey report that came out that 92% of the married male population cheat will have affairs there. This isn't sick. There's a total honest relationship. This is getting married in the eyes of God and saying that, that I will never be with another woman sexually my whole life, David Susskind 16:55 there is a lot of cheating and Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 16:57 a lot of cheating. Your 92% are cheating. I don't say a few people that cheating. And this is when you sit there and say that all a concept is sick. David Susskind 17:07 Yes. Because Because swinging, making love sex in public or groups is a voyeurism. Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 17:15 Why is that a sickness? Why is voyeurism, a pathology? David Susskind 17:20 Well, I think that taking a very private moment and wishing to exploit it, and to have other people observe you it's not a sacred is narcissism that so of course, Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 17:32 if it turns you on David, then it is pleasurable. It's certainly not sick. It is a victimless activity. Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 17:39 Why do people everybody, David Susskind 17:41 you're the victim, Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 17:42 David, I presume that you do things that turn you on sexually. You would not do anything that wasn't exciting to you. You don't find this concept exciting to you. But David Susskind 17:52 I find it revolting, Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 17:53 of course, but you do things that turn you on Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 17:55 Excuse me. How can you find revolting, if you've never seen it. You have never seen anything like this in your life. And you're saying you're making a prejudgment without even seeing what this is all about saying that this is sick. David Susskind 18:07 Are the pictures from the article in Playboy, yeah. Are the pictures from the article and penthouse. Of course, they are wrong that with a distorted Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 18:16 They are not real picture they are posed pictures. I would never allow a camera David Susskind 18:22 They are posed pictures, because the text says taken at Platos Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 18:26 They were taken at Platos. We were closed. And I had people come here and they pose these people in the in the different ways they David Susskind 18:33 let me rephrase the question. All right, those were posed, but with those activities in those photographs. Are they typical of what goes on at Plato's retreat? Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 18:44 Yeah, I would say those but you could see this at Plato David Susskind 18:46 sexual intercourse Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 18:46 If youWant to see it David Susskind 18:48 fellatio. cunnilingus Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 18:50 but everything is done in certain area Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 18:52 done in people's I presume in in the friends of yours bedrooms, David, David Susskind 18:57 I presume it is Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 18:59 What we are discussing here is whether it's done in public and David Susskind 19:02 yes, we are. Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 19:02 Andyou find that sick? David Susskind 19:04 Yes, I do. Don't you? Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 19:06 Absolutely not. Mary Levinson 19:08 That's the beautiful thing in the world to see a couple of people together a couple making love Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 19:16 Nothing wrong with it, it's why does it have to be such a turnoff? Why? Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 19:21 Because we're all different Larry David is different from you and Jack and Bonnie and Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 19:26 from our parents. David Susskind 19:28 You can't put me on the defensive. You think is what has been true for my lifetime and the lifetime of all the people I know what Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 19:38 David say that Plato's is sick for you then not that it's sick. According to your work, maybe your morality, it's sick, but you really you want to use a different word than sick David Susskind 19:48 that is aesthetically revolting. Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 19:51 You mean the the fantasy the common male fantasy of an orgy is revolting to you. Have you never fantasize being present at an orgy and perhaps enjoying yourself. David Susskind 20:03 No, I've never fantasized never Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 20:06 Honestly never. never David Susskind 20:07 I've never had that fantasy Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 20:14 But think of it, David. Think of it now we'll give you a minute. David Susskind 20:17 No, I don't need a minute Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 20:18 I think about the Romans, the ancient Greeks Trojans, the whole society civilization was built, David Susskind 20:25 they crumbled all those societies. They got too decadent Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 20:32 our society, the Romans had the first flush toilets, we forgot them. David Susskind 20:35 I don't know what the hell you're saying? Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 20:38 You take a lot of things from the ancient times David Susskind 20:40 Alright let me give you the aspect of it that I found most disturbing. All right, I'll throw out Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 20:46 and I have reservations about the place too. David Susskind 20:48 Okay, well, we'll get to yours. They're married in the eyes of themselves. I guess they're married in the eyes of the law. And I presume you had a religious ceremony to take your wife to a place of public sex, communal sex, and expose her to the eyes of others. And maybe the suggestions of others are the activity of others. Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 21:13 Well, it seems to me quite an add anybody looks will burn their eyes out. As far as this goes, they just told you there are a couple of came down to the club, because he brings his wife down to the club. That doesn't mean that she's open for everybody there to have sexual relations. So you get the wrong idea played on David Susskind 21:30 But she is technically Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 21:31 no. Available for nothing. Available for what she and he wants to do with a club that they meet another couple. They don't kick the take off their clothes, and jump together. They sit there they eat, they go into a whirlpool, they talk and they really are stimulated by each other, the place available for them, they can do a sexual encounter. But a man doesn't bring his wife down and say to him, when they come down says here it is honey. Now go get it. It doesn't work that way. We're nice people. We're good people. Philip Nobile - New York Magazine Syndicated Columnist 21:59 Well some couples that way. Some couples because we're all different. I know some men who come in to Plato's and they separate. As soon as they hit the dance floor. They don't see each other all night Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 22:09 that's true. But the wife still, if she's going around, she still does what she wants to do. She'll meet a man there maybe, and converse with him, Get acquainted with him get to know him. People come in the first hour, hour and a half, two hours of Plato's person comes in, they stay fully dressed. They dance they get to know David Susskind 22:26 Are you there every night Mary? Afe you there often Mary Levinson 22:29 not that often anymore.No. David Susskind 22:31 Once a week, twice a week. Mary Levinson 22:33 More than that, usually three times. David Susskind 22:35 Do you? Do you have relationships with other men there? Mary Levinson 22:38 Occasionally? Yes. David Susskind 22:39 Does he know about? Mary Levinson 22:40 Yes. David Susskind 22:42 You countenance it. You Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 22:43 I think it's fantastic? Why not? If I'm at the bar, you know, we have a bar with juices. And I'm standing there. And she comes out of the one of the private rooms or the mats with a man and I see a look of content when she's happy. she'll introduce me to the gentleman. this is wonderful. She enjoyed herself. She's not gonna love me any less. Because she had a sexual encounter five minutes before, I'll shake the man's head. Just because we're friends we're being introduced of is nice enough person. I'll get to be friends with it. The same thing if I come out with a young lady. David Susskind 23:14 I think the world's gone crazy. Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 23:20 He gave my my lady pleasure, didn't he? He's gonna be a good fit. He was he wouldn't have Mary Levinson 23:28 very often I do get a lot of pleasure out of it. Yes. And very often I give a lot of pleasure to I hope. David Susskind 23:34 Doesn't that diminish Your intimacy, your private relationship, your emotional commitment to each other Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 23:41 not at all. She's a human being. Mary Levinson 23:43 Remember what I said at the beginning? I feel as if we're going to spend the rest of our lives together. And that's David Susskind 23:49 why because he's so tolerant of yourself. You feel the same way about his Mary Levinson 23:55 Don't you think I would have to worry about all these beautiful young women chasing my Larry. He lines them up and he gives them numbers. That's sort of thing? well, no, but David Susskind 24:07 is he active at his own club? Mary Levinson 24:09 Of course. David Susskind 24:10 He is Mary Levinson 24:10 Yes, We're both swingers. David Susskind 24:12 You see, Mary Levinson 24:13 that's a horrible word. Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 24:14 It is. It's awful Mary Levinson 24:16 let's think of a new one. something that's suits it more. David Susskind 24:20 You see him you know about that and you accept it in as enthusiastically as he does. Mary Levinson 24:27 Well, I I accept it. David Susskind 24:30 There's no twinge of jealousy or Mary Levinson 24:30 yes, there is from time to time. There is jealousy. David Susskind 24:35 What makes you jealous? Mary Levinson 24:36 If he were to single out one particular girl and be with her time and again, or a girl were to single him out and constantly chase after him that kind of a situation David Susskind 24:46 Has that happened Mary Levinson 24:46 does make me nervous. It has happened. Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 24:48 I'm in a different position for the actual person that comes in, you see, and there's no question about it. I'm the owner of the club. So that gives a say certain advantages, but really aren't real, but you can't help the situation. It's like anything else in any club, an owner or something like that. But as far as the average couple of comes into Platos it's a lot different. You see, in my position, I have a lot of ladies coming down, and more or less chasing because I'm in the position I'm in. But it doesn't happen to an average couple that comes down. Everybody is on their own, and they just go along these things happen. Mary Levinson 25:24 For example, how about you? Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 25:26 Before Jack and I got into swinging there always be this thought in the back of my head, when Jack would go out on a Friday night or whatever night with his friends? Or where is he what bar is he in what girls he with? What phone numbers he copying down. And since we've started swinging, and especially going to Plato's I have never had this thought, David Susskind 25:49 where you don't have to anymore he's exhausted. I think Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 25:57 because it's just not cheating. When you're at this club, it's not considered cheating David Susskind 26:06 Then it's sterile and empty Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 26:08 physical sex is physical, Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 26:10 It's a physical thing. You play tennis, What is it, it's a physical enjoyment after it's over, it's over. You go home and say they were Plato's Plato's, David Susskind 26:17 Sex is not like tennis Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 26:18 David what is it. We're all kinds of Plato's is not realistic. We don't want it to be. We don't want people to live their life according to just Plato's retreat. It's a Disneyland it's a fantasy land for adult couples that come enjoy themselves for one evening at the club, and go home and forget about it David Susskind 26:34 And back and back and back. Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 26:36 As long as many times as you need to David Susskind 26:38 they go every week. Larry Levinson Owner Plato's Retreat 26:39 They enjoy it. They don't swing every week. Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 26:42 No we go there for the freedom of relaxation. What we need. We sit down Mary Levinson 26:46 there's so many lovely people there to meet and talk to and dance with Bonnie & Jack Swingers Couple 26:50 We made a lot of good friends there David Susskind 26:51 We'll come right back to the lovely people at Plato's retreat in one minute