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Unfinished Business
Interview with Shimon Peres
Interview with Shimon Peres discussing negotiations and talks with Arafat, attempts for peace and the Israeli attitude towards terrorism., INTERVIEWER:,There was a time when it papered that Yasser Arafat was a suitable partner for peace. What do you think went wrong? How did we come to the point now where we do not have that situation?,01:27:02>>>, SHIMON PERES:,Basically Arafat when he was the head of the Palestine revolution he has had head of the collation of armed groups with him. The moment he became the head of the autonomy we discovered that he's not able to make the shift. To be the head of the revolution is one thing. To be the head of the state is another thing to be the head of the state is another thing. Particularly the softest point was that he didn't understand that by just disarming the Fata, his party, and letting the other party carry arms it undercut his own authority. It's either him controlling them or them controlling him. and they stopped taking orders from them. so even if he would like to cut the terror he couldn't without disarming first the terrorist, the terrorists groups. Now Arafat ah made some contributions in the beginning quite courageous but then he emerged as an extremely weak leader of a state in being. And that's the greatest problem. , INTERVIEWER:,Was this a failure of his character or personality?,02:51:09>>>, SHIMON PERES:,It was, he became a victim of his habits. Because how they ran a revolution. you have this little bit money in brown envelopes. There was no rules and no regulations. you all the time negotiating with the other groups how to act terroristically. You don't have a separation of responsibilities between the legislative, the judicial and the executive. Everything is mixed. Then it's full of conspiracies. Then you have one leader. And all these habits that he's acquired during 30 years of his leadership he couldn't get rid of them. now I talked with him at great lengths about it and I told him look at Bangolia. He was also a head of ah, armed group not only but also in order to achieve independence for the Jewish. The minute he became head of the state he says no room for any other armed group but Daganah, which was the official armed group. And he went as far as ordering to shoot at the ship that brought arms to Israel and killing 20 people Jewish because they didn't take the orders. I told him if you want, if you won't do it you don't have a future. I told many times to Arafat. I think he was suspicious that I'm trying you know to introduce a division between me, him and the other parties because his reply was I shall disarm them politically. In the elections of 1996 after the assignation of Isaac Rabin another wave of terror started. I replaced Rabin as you know. and I did things which were very controversial in the eyes of the Israelis and very important in the eyes of the Palestinians. I handed over 460 villages to the Palestinians. 6 cities. And able to have elections including in Jerusalem. They praised and appreciate. All of a sudden they started to explode ah to explode bombs in ah Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv and in Ashkiranash. Arafat are you crazy with all the reactions what are you doing?,05:21:25>>>, SHIMON PERES, And in the beginning again he tried to convince the Hamas to stop it that you had to stop it without any effect. Finally when he saw that the situation was really becoming very severe he went to fight the Hamas. And he killed 20 of the Hamas leaders. He arrested thousands. He discovered the cashes of arms there are gifts and terror went down but the person who INAUDIBLE was Netanyahu who replaced me. I lost the elections because he didn't do it in time. I lost with 1/3 of a percent. Netanyahu won because Arafat waked up too late., INTERVIEWER:,What did he gain from it from doing all this?,06:07:19>>>, SHIMON PERES:, He didn't gain anything he lost. I was told that he was crying after he heard the results of the elections., INTERVIEWER:,And why do you think he did not accept what was offered to him at Camp David?,06:20:20>>>, SHIMON PERES:, First of all I think Camp David was not conducted with great wisdom. Barak and Arafat sat at the same place for 15 days. And Barak spoke with Arafat for ½ and hour. In the eyes of the Palestinians, not only the Palestinians Palestine is a very matter. And you feel like somebody's snubbing you. It's not very, it's not done in negotiations. In negotiations you don't negotiate just about points. You negotiate about relations. And if you win too much you may loose your partner. That was one thing. And then as far as I'm concerned those negotiating with Arafat some of my friends never take Arafat yes for an answer. I learn not to take his no for an answer. I'm never impressed by his no's. ,07:19:02>>>, SHIMON PERES:, I remember when we were negotiating in Cairo the whole night chaired Mubarak. In the morning when it came to the sign the maps Arafat said I'm not signing. In front of all the television. It was a scandal. It was a shame. And Arafat approached him and they didn't I'm not going to quote how he called him and he told him sign. What happened is Arafat took out the pen and signed. That's another thing. But there is a third point which we shouldn't forget. And I told it to Barak before. Barak demanded that Arafat will announce that after the agreement he will have no claims anymore. The minute (COUGH OFF SCREEN). The minute he says he raised two impossible issues at the time the issue of Jerusalem and the issue of refuges and bought it to the central of the discussion and we knew that we can not reach an agreement. ,08:18:15>>>, SHIMON PERES:, If Arafat should declare he doesn't have anymore claims it means he has to turn his back to the Palestinian refuges. Something that he cannot do. and I thought you don't have to buy from the other party all the dreams and all the demands. Let things hang in there. (COUGH OFF SCREEN). But all told Arafat committed a terrible mistake by rejecting the proposals of Clinton and Barak despite what they have said. And he's not paying the price for this rejection. , INTERVIEWER:,If you could compare him to King Hussein what kind of a peace partner was King Hussein?,09:04:23>>>, SHIMON PERES:, King Hussein wanted peace and he was a responsible negotiator for peace. But here let me say in a wider sense historically speaking. There are 2 ½ million Palestinians here in the territories. There are another 3 ½ million Palestinians that close the door on their leader, on the King on the throne. And they might, some people say you cant not (COUGH OFF SCREEN) make peace with the Palestinians. And I'm asking myself why do we have peace with the Palestinians in trans Jordan in the kingdom of Jordan. You know there are 2 cities close to each other Elad and Dakab maybe a few miles INAUDIBLE. During the 54 years of the existence of the stated of Israel not a single bullet was fired from one city to another city. There's the piece of land between the Red and the Dead Sea almost 120, 130 miles long without fences, without INAUDIBLE, without infiltrators. (COUGH OFF SCREEN) There Jordanians don't permit ah terrorist coming from Jordan into Israel. There are no suicidal bombers. Why is that? those are the same people. Why those 2 ½ million people decided to live peace with us and these 3 ½ million people are in revolt, in terror, in violence, in bitterness. ,10:45:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:, There are 2 differences. One is that in Jordan they have an organized government. Doesn't hang upon the whim of a single man. The have one army not 12 armies like the Palestinian side. They have one treasurer they don't have several treasurers. They have one commander in chief and not many commanders of chief. And I'd say certainly it's not a complete democracy they are far from it but there is separation between their legislative and judicial and ah executive branches. The Palestinians don't have it. So they brought in a INAUDIBLE and they live in a cultic state. There was nobody in charge in spite of all the authorities. The other thing which we have to take into consideration too. We don't dominate any piece of land in Jordan. At the early times of Zionism Jabatinisky said the 2 banks of the Jordan river belongs to us the east and the west. Thanks heavens they gave up half to their program because if you would put settlements across the Jordan river we would create an INAUDIBLE there as well. So we have to correct those 2 mistakes. And I'm speaking objectively. To force the Palestinians to have a reformed government. And to enable us to retreat from the territories., INTERVIEWER:,Of course people have spoken about the settlements here as a problem. If there were no settlements do you believe that there would be peace between Israel and the Palestinians?,12:52:27>>>, SHIMON PERES:, It would help a great deal. It would be very different situation undoubtedly. I use saying you know you can break eggs and make an omelet. But you can not make from omelet eggs again. Too many eggs were broken and now we have to find a solution. The most acute situation clearly is in the Gaza strip. When I was Defense Minister in 1974 the population of Gaza was 350 thousand people. Today there are 1 million 200 thousand people. Almost four times as many. The size of the land is petit. It's 220 miles. It has the density, maybe the most densified piece of land in the world. It's a 5.2 rate of birth. Every 12 births they will double themselves. We have not 7,000 settlers in Gaza. 7,000 vis a vis 1 million 200 thousand. We are forced to close it for security reasons. They are closed so they don't work. They don't work they are very close to suffer starvation. What do we need to see them. and we have an alternative land prepared for those settlers in-between the southern tip of Gaza and Kidisberna which is on the border which Egypt. There's no sense to sit in the middle of this populated and bitter piece of land., INTERVIEWER:,He said that there's a demographic time bomb ticking in Israel and that even if Gaza's returned and even if the West Bank is returned there will still be a problem with the many Palestinians or Israeli Arabs that live here. In the long run is it possible for Israel to be true to its ideals while at the same time remaining a democracy with one person one vote?,15:37:20>>>, SHIMON PERES:, I think yes because you see the rate of birth depends upon the standard of living. The poorer the people are rate of birth is higher. And poor people produce many children and their many children produce more poverty. It's a vicious circle. You know we have here in, among the Palestinians two communities the Muslim and the Christian. The Christian community is well off better than the Muslims. So naturally their rate of birth went down. Because when you're poor you don't care how many children you have. All of them will be hungry. But you are becoming better off you want to invest more in every child than to invest in more children. So this there is while societies are imbalancing themselves. And also what happened is you see the size of a family in previous times say 50 or 100 years ago with 8 or 9 children. In many countries such a large number of children was a product of their medical situation because 3 or 4 passed away. So they would remain with 4 or 5 children. Today with an improved medicine the whole family remains alive. And the family's incapable to feed so many children. So I mean there is logic in demography as well. Geography is immobile. Demography is mobile and it is based not only upon a piece of land but also upon a piece of logic. , INTERVIEWER:,There's also religion, religion influences demography?,17:35:12>>>, SHIMON PERES:, Yes and no because religion too is changing you see. I'm not a great believer in the theory of hunting to an INAUDIBLE crash among civilizations. I'd rather believe there was a crash within every civilization. Namely adaptation of your determined religion with the changing epochs. I mean you can not compare the all you see today with what it was in the medieval time with the inquisition. You can not say to the pope of today he's like the pope in the 15th or 14th century. Now what changed Christianity the Muslims they choose no. they develop in time. you know the Russians were educating their children to be communists. All of a sudden communist fall down. What make it fall down? American intervention the European intervention. Again the intervention of a new age. And now we approach INAUDIBLE and the Muslims they can not remain with old habits in a totally different era. And I believe we shall see changes., , INTERVIEWER:,You are seen as a great statement among people in the United states, among Jewish community and the community at large. And at one time you had a vision as a center in the middle east the center. This dream seems so far away today what would you say to people today in this country and elsewhere who have given up hope for peace?,19:38:28>>>, SHIMON PERES:,That's a INAUDIBLE people they give up, they give they gave up for peace too early. Maybe we are today close to realize this vision more than ever before. I didn't say that Israel will become a center. I thought Israel should have the middle east enter (COUGH OFF SCREEN) the new age. Because today most of the political problems are being solved economically. Europe was living in hatred and blood for a thousand. And 3 years Europe changed in spite of all their memories and all their education. What John Monet did for the future of Europe is much more than napoleon did for INAUDIBLE past. What changed Europe is the economy not the wars. And the same thing goes now for china. If you ask me what is the greatest achievement of high technology I would say china. They're changing the face of china. And they said time has come for the middle east to change as well. To go from the old bitterness of wars about territory to the new horizon of economic, scientific and technological cooperation. I wrote a book it's called the New Middle East. It was criticized very much among the Arabs. One day the president of Egypt invited me and says Shimon time has come that you will listen to your critics. And in short they said look you are trying to dominate the Arab economy under the cover of having a new middle east.,19:20:25>>>, SHIMON PERES: ,I told him gentlemen there is no Arab economy there is Arab poverty. Who wants to govern poverty. What for? Toady poverty is national and affluence is global. And unless you come in the global arena and open up, open your borders, open your skies let the objectivity of science. The promise of technology(COUGH OFF SCREEN) play it's free role then you'll save your children. You'll save the land from becoming desert and your children from becoming beggars. , INTERVIEWER:,Do you see any Arab leader who will be a hypothetical peace partner should that opportunity come?,22:10:01>>>, SHIMON PERES:,The leaders on the horizon are our leaders of yesterdays. The new leaders are unseen you don't know who they were who they are. Would you know who did produce the change in ah Russia it was unseen people. Or who did it china or did it in Europe. Jean Monet was an economist not even a general. And I believe that this is a confrontation not among politicians. And among religions and not upon economies. It is if you want a confrontation between two generations the outgoing generation that refuses to leave the scene and the incoming generation that doesn't have yet enough strength to take over. , INTERVIEWER:,I have no doubt that these people exist but there are young people that see Israel as facing the greatest threat of its survival since the creation of the state. Some blame us, some blame the Arabs in general some don't know what to say but they seem so pessimistic and when we travel it seems like we've gone back into time. the roads are full of holes. The Arabs seemed terrified. They seem passive, resigned and hopeless. It seems we've gone so far can we really see any hope when people feel so threatened on both sides?,24:04:10 SHIMON PERES:,100% around the INAUDIBLE doubt about it. , INTERVIEWER:,About what?,24:12:11>>>, SHIMON PERES:,About the change coming you know usually the future is in minority but it's a winning minority (COUGH OFF SCREEN) because it is the future. In a few weeks or so there will begun, begin the great confrontation between the world of terrorism and the world of INAUDIBLE of peace. In the 20th century the main confrontation was with the Communists, the Nazi's, the Fascists. Each of them has had a country behind them, an army behind them. terrorism is a new phenomena. It's more a protest then ideology without rules, without cords, without merits, without values. And there wild and a dangerous and you can also see that a poor country economically can be a rich country militarily. They can have modern arms and so on and so forth. So the free world doesn't have a choice but to bring an end to terror and terrorism. If communism and ah nazism was in Europe terrorism is in the Middle East. And now you see in the Middle East the great confrontation between people that want to enter a plane and be sure that they will arrive to their target. That they can walk in the street, attend a coffee, drink fresh water. So the changes in the Middle East are by far closer than we think.,25:55:17>>>, SHIMON PERES:, And you will see in the coming 5 to 10 years the great confrontation between these 2 civilizations, if you want, the civilization of terror without respect for human life, without any rational approach, without reference to the changes in our time and forces that will come not only from the outside but also from within the Arab world. Within the Muslim world. Not to do a favor to anybody but to save themselves from the agonies and cost of mistakes. , INTERVIEWER:,Will they have the courage to do so?,26:41:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:,They don't have a choice you know. courage also comes when you don't have a choice. What are they going to do remain backward poor, hated, isolated, a target for attacks and blames. , INTERVIEWER:,Will there be among the Palestinians people who say they don't have a choice?,27:08:10>>>, SHIMON PERES:,Yes few day, few weeks ago the number 2 man in the autonomy Abu Mazaum stood back, stood up and says we have to cut the INAUDIBLE. It's a tragedy. it's a catastrophe for the Palestinian people. And INAUDIBLE and so are many of the people who may say publicly one thing but privately they know exactly what's happening. And they know that the Palestinians are paying an impossible cost. , INTERVIEWER:,Yesterday we spoke with Hamed Qatari who is a Hamas leader. he was one of the 450 people who came back. He and other people that we spoke with said that they will fight this till the last man, woman and child to regain Palestine. I'm sure this is all very familiar to you.,28:20:05>>>, SHIMON PERES:,What, what would you expect them to say. , INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE,28:23:13>>>, SHIMON PERES:,That's normal when there is a confrontation and each party is blaming the other party. People are talking and exaggerated and inflamed language. , INTERVIEWER:,Don't you feel the fundalism is growing stronger?,28:39:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:,I think the fundalism is a problem for the Palestinians not less than for us. They destroy the Palestinian position. If Arafat lost in the eyes of the United States and Europe it's because of them not because of us. Because they paint him in an impossible posture and he doesn't know who to escape., INTERVIEWER:,What message would you give to the American people? The people out there who are yearning for peace as they look at this?,29:21:10>>>, SHIMON PERES:,I mean there is no escape but to fight terror. You can not run away from it. Let's not forget it is not the United States that has initiated the war against terror. It is the terrorist who have initiated the war against the United States. And they don't intend to stop. Mach Magandi once said that when a cat is chasing a mouse there is no sense for a mouse to suggest it is frail because it has nothing to do with strategy it has to do with nature. The United States was forced actually in a fight of self defense. And nobody should see it differently. It's not a fight against a religion or against a nation it's a fight against a menace which brings untold catastrophes to the Palestinians and the Arabs and the Muslims themselves. So I think the United States is right and justified. a combination between a dictator and nuclear is a terrible situation. If Hitler had a nuclear bomb in 1939 I don't know where the world would stand. And eventually all other nations will join the United States. I thought it will be even quicker than that because United States always came to the side of Europe. To the side of all the INAUDIBLE the communism, or generals or whatever it is. And they sacrificed the live of their boys. And they won the war and they didn't keep anything for themselves. Now America is attacked. You may expect that the rest will behave likewise historically. , ,31:07:25>>>, SHIMON PERES:,The second point I want to say is that we are really identified with the United States but differently from all other allies United States has had or is having. We never asked American soldiers to sacrifice their lives to defend Israel. Some of the Europe counties who criticize the United States are having American soldiers defending their land. We never created this situation where an American mother should be worried because her boy's in Israel defending the state of the Jewish. No we shall do it ourselves. The same goals and America helped us which I shall never forget in arms, in political support, in understanding, in financing yes but not in blood and not in dangers. The same goes now for peace. While I'm sure the United States will support the peace process it is for Israel to take the imitative. We shouldn't sit and wait until the Americans take the initiative no. it is our responsibility. We are not running to the United States. United States shouldn't run the process of peace it should support it and they will support it. And I think the sooner the better. Any postponement is a mistake. I believe today the United States is really concerned about the Iranian problem and the terroristic problem. So we shouldn't wait until this problem will be solved. We have to start the peace process on our own. ,32:57:00>>>, SHIMON PERES:,For the simple reason you can not and you shouldn't fight terrorist without fighting terrorism. What I mean by the reasons for terror. You should give hope to the other side not only to yourself. I mean we can't have the Palestinian cooperation they wont be our collaborators. They will be our party if they gonna have reasons for it. They will never serve us. They will never take orders from us. But if they will see that we are really sincere and peaceful and concerned about them as well and we suggest to cut a deal which is fair and reasonable historically and other wise we should be able to make., INTERVIEWER:,But didn't we give them a fair deal?,33:51:19>>>, SHIMON PERES:,Suppose it wasn't successful so what so we shall try again. You don't divorce history. And you don't use disappointment as your teacher. You'll try it maybe we also committed mistakes and I think we did some. Now the problem is not it's not a baseball match to decide who's the winner. What we have is to create a new ground for our living. You see in war there is no alternative to victory. In peace there is no alternative to compromise. And now that 3 politicians nothing works ever. Nobody likes compromises but you can not have a coexistence without compromise., INTERVIEWER:,You'll try again but INAUDIBLE?,34:48:09>>>, SHIMON PERES:,No no I'm told you, I told you. I see the 3 ½ million people Palestinians who live across the river and are tied to old lessons and there were times also with them we were at war. We were at war with Egypt. We were at war with Jordan. There were times that we mistook. There were times they mistook. Well we can not make mistake and excuse., INTERVIEWER:,That's on their side and now you have more than 200 thousand settlers. How will the country survive this civically?,35:24:20>>>, SHIMON PERES:,well there were some proposals. There were 2 or 3 proposals . one is concentrate all the settlements on a small piece of land in the West Bank. 3 or 4 percent and have a small, give the Palestinians 2 or 3 percent, 4 percent somewhere else. That's one solution. Another solution can be as there are Arabs living under non Arab government INAUDIBLE living under non Jewish government. This is different from war. You can not say lets have peace which is an extension of war. Doesn't make sense. Peace is a departure not an extension., INTERVIEWER:,Everything you say is so logical and beautiful why can't we have your vision implemented?,36:25:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:,People are angry and disappointed for good reasons. There is terror and violence and mistrust and dissolutions whatever you want. I agree. But if I can suggest a lesson I learned in my life that you can not a, achieve anything which is big without big disappointments and disillusions and troubles. And you think it's the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. And to do something big requires a great effort, a great determination. And face the disillusions with the same determination that you're facing the INAUDIBLE. And that's what we have to do. ,22:37:50>>>, B-Roll pictures (no sound) , END OF INTERVIEW
L'Equipe du Soir of May 4, 2023 (EDS).
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IRAQ/EGYPT/ARAB/REAX
00:00:00:00 - RX 2 1) WALTER RODGERS PKG Even if he has blinked at the last minute, Saddam Hussein's latest display of brinkmanship is likely only to burnish his legend in the minds of millions of Ara ...
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Shimon Peres Interview
01:26:30>>>INTERVIEWER: There was a time when it papered that Yasser Arafat was a suitable partner for peace. What do you think went wrong? How did we come to the point now where we do not have that situation?,01:27:02>>>SHIMON PERES: Basically Arafat when he was the head of the Palestine revolution he has had head of the collation of armed groups with him. The moment he became the head of the autonomy we discovered that he's not able to make the shift. To be the head of the revolution is one thing. To be the head of the state is another thing to be the head of the state is another thing. PartiCUlarly the softest point was that he didn't understand that by just disarming the Fata, his party, and letting the other party carry arms it underCUt his own authority. It's either him controlling them or them controlling him. and they stopped taking orders from them. so even if he would like to CUt the terror he couldn't without disarming first the terrorist, the terrorists groups. Now Arafat ah made some contributions in the beginning quite courageous but then he emerged as an extremely weak leader of a state in being. And that's the greatest problem. ,01:51:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Was this a failure of his character or personality?,02:51:09>>>SHIMON PERES: It was, he became a victim of his habits. Because how they ran a revolution. you have this little bit money in brown envelopes. There was no rules and no regulations. you all the time negotiating with the other groups how to act terroristically. You don't have a separation of responsibilities between the legislative, the judicial and the exeCUtive. Everything is mixed. Then it's full of conspiracies. Then you have one leader. And all these habits that he's acquired during 30 years of his leadership he couldn't get rid of them. now I talked with him at great lengths about it and I told him look at Bangolia. He was also a head of ah, armed group not only but also in order to achieve independence for the Jewish. The minute he became head of the state he says no room for any other armed group but Daganah, which was the official armed group. And he went as far as ordering to shoot at the ship that brought arms to Israel and killing 20 people Jewish because they didn't take the orders. I told him if you want, if you won't do it you don't have a future. I told many times to Arafat. I think he was suspicious that I'm trying you know to introduce a division between me, him and the other parties because his reply was I shall disarm them politically. In the elections of 1996 after the assignation of Isaac Rabin another wave of terror started. I replaced Rabin as you know. and I did things which were very controversial in the eyes of the Israelis and very important in the eyes of the Palestinians. I handed over 460 villages to the Palestinians. 6 cities. And able to have elections including in Jerusalem. They praised and appreciate. All of a sudden they started to explode ah to explode bombs in ah Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv and in Ashkiranash. Arafat are you crazy with all the reactions what are you doing?,05:21:25>>>SHIMON PERES: And in the beginning again he tried to convince the Hamas to stop it that you had to stop it without any effect. Finally when he saw that the situation was really becoming very severe he went to fight the Hamas. And he killed 20 of the Hamas leaders. He arrested thousands. He discovered the cashes of arms there are gifts and terror went down but the person who INAUDIBLE was Netanyahu who replaced me. I lost the elections because he didn't do it in time. I lost with 1/3 of a percent. Netanyahu won because Arafat waked up too late.,06:07:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What did he gain from it from doing all this?,06:07:19>>>SHIMON PERES: He didn't gain anything he lost. I was told that he was crying after he heard the results of the elections.,06:20:10>>>INTERVIEWER: And why do you think he did not accept what was offered to him at Camp David?,06:20:20>>>SHIMON PERES: First of all I think Camp David was not conducted with great wisdom. Barak and Arafat sat at the same place for 15 days. And Barak spoke with Arafat for ½ and hour. In the eyes of the Palestinians, not only the Palestinians Palestine is a very matter. And you feel like somebody's snubbing you. It's not very, it's not done in negotiations. In negotiations you don't negotiate just about points. You negotiate about relations. And if you win too much you may loose your partner. That was one thing. And then as far as I'm concerned those negotiating with Arafat some of my friends never take Arafat yes for an answer. I learn not to take his no for an answer. I'm never impressed by his no's. ,07:19:02>>>SHIMON PERES: I remember when we were negotiating in Cairo the whole night chaired Mubarak. In the morning when it came to the sign the maps Arafat said I'm not signing. In front of all the television. It was a scandal. It was a shame. And Arafat approached him and they didn't I'm not going to quote how he called him and he told him sign. What happened is Arafat took out the pen and signed. That's another thing. But there is a third point which we shouldn't forget. And I told it to Barak before. Barak demanded that Arafat will announce that after the agreement he will have no claims anymore. The minute (COUGH OFF SCREEN). The minute he says he raised two impossible issues at the time the issue of Jerusalem and the issue of refuges and bought it to the central of the disCUssion and we knew that we can not reach an agreement. ,08:18:15>>>SHIMON PERES: If Arafat should declare he doesn't have anymore claims it means he has to turn his back to the Palestinian refuges. Something that he cannot do. and I thought you don't have to buy from the other party all the dreams and all the demands. Let things hang in there. (COUGH OFF SCREEN). But all told Arafat committed a terrible mistake by rejecting the proposals of Clinton and Barak despite what they have said. And he's not paying the price for this rejection. ,09:04:15>>>INTERVIEWER: If you could compare him to King Hussein what kind of a peace partner was King Hussein?,09:04:23>>>SHIMON PERES: King Hussein wanted peace and he was a responsible negotiator for peace. But here let me say in a wider sense historically speaking. There are 2 ½ million Palestinians here in the territories. There are another 3 ½ million Palestinians that close the door on their leader, on the King on the throne. And they might, some people say you cant not (COUGH OFF SCREEN) make peace with the Palestinians. And I'm asking myself why do we have peace with the Palestinians in trans Jordan in the kingdom of Jordan. You know there are 2 cities close to each other Elad and Dakab maybe a few miles INAUDIBLE. During the 54 years of the existence of the stated of Israel not a single bullet was fired from one city to another city. There's the piece of land between the Red and the Dead Sea almost 120, 130 miles long without fences, without INAUDIBLE, without infiltrators. (COUGH OFF SCREEN) There Jordanians don't permit ah terrorist coming from Jordan into Israel. There are no suicidal bombers. Why is that? those are the same people. Why those 2 ½ million people decided to live peace with us and these 3 ½ million people are in revolt, in terror, in violence, in bitterness. ,10:45:07>>>SHIMON PERES: There are 2 differences. One is that in Jordan they have an organized government. Doesn't hang upon the whim of a single man. The have one army not 12 armies like the Palestinian side. They have one treasurer they don't have several treasurers. They have one commander in chief and not many commanders of chief. And I'd say certainly it's not a complete democracy they are far from it but there is separation between their legislative and judicial and ah exeCUtive branches. The Palestinians don't have it. So they brought in a INAUDIBLE and they live in a CUltic state. There was nobody in charge in spite of all the authorities. The other thing which we have to take into consideration too. We don't dominate any piece of land in Jordan. At the early times of Zionism Jabatinisky said the 2 banks of the Jordan river belongs to us the east and the west. Thanks heavens they gave up half to their program because if you would put settlements across the Jordan river we would create an INAUDIBLE there as well. So we have to correct those 2 mistakes. And I'm speaking objectively. To force the Palestinians to have a reformed government. And to enable us to retreat from the territories.,12:52:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Of course people have spoken about the settlements here as a problem. If there were no settlements do you believe that there would be peace between Israel and the Palestinians?,12:52:27>>>SHIMON PERES: It would help a great deal. It would be very different situation undoubtedly. I use saying you know you can break eggs and make an omelet. But you can not make from omelet eggs again. Too many eggs were broken and now we have to find a solution. The most aCUte situation clearly is in the Gaza strip. When I was Defense Minister in 1974 the population of Gaza was 350 thousand people. Today there are 1 million 200 thousand people. Almost four times as many. The size of the land is petit. It's 220 miles. It has the density, maybe the most densified piece of land in the world. It's a 5.2 rate of birth. Every 12 births they will double themselves. We have not 7,000 settlers in Gaza. 7,000 vis a vis 1 million 200 thousand. We are forced to close it for security reasons. They are closed so they don't work. They don't work they are very close to suffer starvation. What do we need to see them. and we have an alternative land prepared for those settlers in-between the southern tip of Gaza and Kidisberna which is on the border which Egypt. There's no sense to sit in the middle of this populated and bitter piece of land.,15:37:00>>>INTERVIEWER: He said that there's a demographic time bomb ticking in Israel and that even if Gaza's returned and even if the West Bank is returned there will still be a problem with the many Palestinians or Israeli Arabs that live here. In the long run is it possible for Israel to be true to its ideals while at the same time remaining a democracy with one person one vote?,15:37:20>>>SHIMON PERES: I think yes because you see the rate of birth depends upon the standard of living. The poorer the people are rate of birth is higher. And poor people produce many children and their many children produce more poverty. It's a vicious circle. You know we have here in, among the Palestinians two communities the Muslim and the Christian. The Christian community is well off better than the Muslims. So naturally their rate of birth went down. Because when you're poor you don't care how many children you have. All of them will be hungry. But you are becoming better off you want to invest more in every child than to invest in more children. So this there is while societies are imbalancing themselves. And also what happened is you see the size of a family in previous times say 50 or 100 years ago with 8 or 9 children. In many countries such a large number of children was a product of their medical situation because 3 or 4 passed away. So they would remain with 4 or 5 children. Today with an improved medicine the whole family remains alive. And the family's incapable to feed so many children. So I mean there is logic in demography as well. Geography is immobile. Demography is mobile and it is based not only upon a piece of land but also upon a piece of logic. ,17:35:00>>>INTERVIEWER: There's also religion, religion influences demography?,17:35:12>>>SHIMON PERES: Yes and no because religion too is changing you see. I'm not a great believer in the theory of hunting to an INAUDIBLE crash among civilizations. I'd rather believe there was a crash within every civilization. Namely adaptation of your determined religion with the changing epochs. I mean you can not compare the all you see today with what it was in the medieval time with the inquisition. You can not say to the pope of today he's like the pope in the 15th or 14th century. Now what changed Christianity the Muslims they choose no. they develop in time. you know the Russians were educating their children to be communists. All of a sudden communist fall down. What make it fall down? American intervention the European intervention. Again the intervention of a new age. And now we approach INAUDIBLE and the Muslims they can not remain with old habits in a totally different era. And I believe we shall see changes., ,19:38:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You are seen as a great statement among people in the United states, among Jewish community and the community at large. And at one time you had a vision as a center in the middle east the center. This dream seems so far away today what would you say to people today in this country and elsewhere who have given up hope for peace?,19:38:28>>>SHIMON PERES: That's a INAUDIBLE people they give up, they give they gave up for peace too early. Maybe we are today close to realize this vision more than ever before. I didn't say that Israel will become a center. I thought Israel should have the middle east enter (COUGH OFF SCREEN) the new age. Because today most of the political problems are being solved economically. Europe was living in hatred and blood for a thousand. And 3 years Europe changed in spite of all their memories and all their education. What John Monet did for the future of Europe is much more than napoleon did for INAUDIBLE past. What changed Europe is the economy not the wars. And the same thing goes now for china. If you ask me what is the greatest achievement of high technology I would say china. They're changing the face of china. And they said time has come for the middle east to change as well. To go from the old bitterness of wars about territory to the new horizon of economic, scientific and technological cooperation. I wrote a book it's called the New Middle East. It was criticized very much among the Arabs. One day the president of Egypt invited me and says Shimon time has come that you will listen to your critics. And in short they said look you are trying to dominate the Arab economy under the cover of having a new middle east.,19:20:25>>>SHIMON PERES: I told him gentlemen there is no Arab economy there is Arab poverty. Who wants to govern poverty. What for? Toady poverty is national and affluence is global. And unless you come in the global arena and open up, open your borders, open your skies let the objectivity of science. The promise of technology(COUGH OFF SCREEN) play it's free role then you'll save your children. You'll save the land from becoming desert and your children from becoming beggars. ,22:09:50>>>INTERVIEWER: Do you see any Arab leader who will be a hypothetical peace partner should that opportunity come?,22:10:01>>>SHIMON PERES: The leaders on the horizon are our leaders of yesterdays. The new leaders are unseen you don't know who they were who they are. Would you know who did produce the change in ah Russia it was unseen people. Or who did it china or did it in Europe. Jean Monet was an economist not even a general. And I believe that this is a confrontation not among politicians. And among religions and not upon economies. It is if you want a confrontation between two generations the outgoing generation that refuses to leave the scene and the incoming generation that doesn't have yet enough strength to take over. ,24:03:50>>>INTERVIEWER: I have no doubt that these people exist but there are young people that see Israel as facing the greatest threat of its survival since the creation of the state. Some blame us, some blame the Arabs in general some don't know what to say but they seem so pessimistic and when we travel it seems like we've gone back into time. the roads are full of holes. The Arabs seemed terrified. They seem passive, resigned and hopeless. It seems we've gone so far can we really see any hope when people feel so threatened on both sides?,24:04:10>>>SHIMON PERES: 100% around the INAUDIBLE doubt about it. ,24:12:05>>>INTERVIEWER: About what?,24:12:11>>>SHIMON PERES: About the change coming you know usually the future is in minority but it's a winning minority (COUGH OFF SCREEN) because it is the future. In a few weeks or so there will begun, begin the great confrontation between the world of terrorism and the world of INAUDIBLE of peace. In the 20th century the main confrontation was with the Communists, the Nazi's, the Fascists. Each of them has had a country behind them, an army behind them. terrorism is a new phenomena. It's more a protest then ideology without rules, without cords, without merits, without values. And there wild and a dangerous and you can also see that a poor country economically can be a rich country militarily. They can have modern arms and so on and so forth. So the free world doesn't have a choice but to bring an end to terror and terrorism. If communism and ah nazism was in Europe terrorism is in the Middle East. And now you see in the Middle East the great confrontation between people that want to enter a plane and be sure that they will arrive to their target. That they can walk in the street, attend a coffee, drink fresh water. So the changes in the Middle East are by far closer than we think.,25:55:17>>>SHIMON PERES: And you will see in the coming 5 to 10 years the great confrontation between these 2 civilizations, if you want, the civilization of terror without respect for human life, without any rational approach, without reference to the changes in our time and forces that will come not only from the outside but also from within the Arab world. Within the Muslim world. Not to do a favor to anybody but to save themselves from the agonies and cost of mistakes. ,26:41:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Will they have the courage to do so?,26:41:07>>>SHIMON PERES: They don't have a choice you know. courage also comes when you don't have a choice. What are they going to do remain backward poor, hated, isolated, a target for attacks and blames. ,27:08:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Will there be among the Palestinians people who say they don't have a choice?,27:08:10>>>SHIMON PERES: Yes few day, few weeks ago the number 2 man in the autonomy Abu Mazaum stood back, stood up and says we have to CUt the INAUDIBLE. It's a tragedy. it's a catastrophe for the Palestinian people. And INAUDIBLE and so are many of the people who may say publicly one thing but privately they know exactly what's happening. And they know that the Palestinians are paying an impossible cost. ,28:19:50>>>INTERVIEWER: Yesterday we spoke with Hamed Qatari who is a Hamas leader. he was one of the 450 people who came back. He and other people that we spoke with said that they will fight this till the last man, woman and child to regain Palestine. I'm sure this is all very familiar to you.,28:20:05>>>SHIMON PERES: What, what would you expect them to say. ,28:20:10>>>INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE,28:23:13>>>SHIMON PERES: That's normal when there is a confrontation and each party is blaming the other party. People are talking and exaggerated and inflamed language. ,28:39:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Don't you feel the fundalism is growing stronger?,28:39:07>>>SHIMON PERES: I think the fundalism is a problem for the Palestinians not less than for us. They destroy the Palestinian position. If Arafat lost in the eyes of the United States and Europe it's because of them not because of us. Because they paint him in an impossible posture and he doesn't know who to escape.,29:21:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What message would you give to the American people? The people out there who are yearning for peace as they look at this?,29:21:10>>>SHIMON PERES: I mean there is no escape but to fight terror. You can not run away from it. Let's not forget it is not the United States that has initiated the war against terror. It is the terrorist who have initiated the war against the United States. And they don't intend to stop. Mach Magandi once said that when a cat is chasing a mouse there is no sense for a mouse to suggest it is frail because it has nothing to do with strategy it has to do with nature. The United States was forced actually in a fight of self defense. And nobody should see it differently. It's not a fight against a religion or against a nation it's a fight against a menace which brings untold catastrophes to the Palestinians and the Arabs and the Muslims themselves. So I think the United States is right and justified. a combination between a dictator and nuclear is a terrible situation. If Hitler had a nuclear bomb in 1939 I don't know where the world would stand. And eventually all other nations will join the United States. I thought it will be even quicker than that because United States always came to the side of Europe. To the side of all the INAUDIBLE the communism, or generals or whatever it is. And they sacrificed the live of their boys. And they won the war and they didn't keep anything for themselves. Now America is attacked. You may expect that the rest will behave likewise historically. , ,31:07:25>>>SHIMON PERES: The second point I want to say is that we are really identified with the United States but differently from all other allies United States has had or is having. We never asked American soldiers to sacrifice their lives to defend Israel. Some of the Europe counties who criticize the United States are having American soldiers defending their land. We never created this situation where an American mother should be worried because her boy's in Israel defending the state of the Jewish. No we shall do it ourselves. The same goals and America helped us which I shall never forget in arms, in political support, in understanding, in financing yes but not in blood and not in dangers. The same goes now for peace. While I'm sure the United States will support the peace process it is for Israel to take the imitative. We shouldn't sit and wait until the Americans take the initiative no. it is our responsibility. We are not running to the United States. United States shouldn't run the process of peace it should support it and they will support it. And I think the sooner the better. Any postponement is a mistake. I believe today the United States is really concerned about the Iranian problem and the terroristic problem. So we shouldn't wait until this problem will be solved. We have to start the peace process on our own. ,32:57:00>>>SHIMON PERES: For the simple reason you can not and you shouldn't fight terrorist without fighting terrorism. What I mean by the reasons for terror. You should give hope to the other side not only to yourself. I mean we can't have the Palestinian cooperation they wont be our collaborators. They will be our party if they gonna have reasons for it. They will never serve us. They will never take orders from us. But if they will see that we are really sincere and peaceful and concerned about them as well and we suggest to CUt a deal which is fair and reasonable historically and other wise we should be able to make.,33:51:15>>>INTERVIEWER: But didn't we give them a fair deal?,33:51:19>>>SHIMON PERES: Suppose it wasn't successful so what so we shall try again. You don't divorce history. And you don't use disappointment as your teacher. You'll try it maybe we also committed mistakes and I think we did some. Now the problem is not it's not a baseball match to decide who's the winner. What we have is to create a new ground for our living. You see in war there is no alternative to victory. In peace there is no alternative to compromise. And now that 3 politicians nothing works ever. Nobody likes compromises but you can not have a coexistence without compromise.,34:48:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You'll try again but INAUDIBLE?,34:48:09>>>SHIMON PERES: No no I'm told you, I told you. I see the 3 ½ million people Palestinians who live across the river and are tied to old lessons and there were times also with them we were at war. We were at war with Egypt. We were at war with Jordan. There were times that we mistook. There were times they mistook. Well we can not make mistake and exCUse.,35:24:10>>>INTERVIEWER: That's on their side and now you have more than 200 thousand settlers. How will the country survive this civically?,35:24:20>>>SHIMON PERES: well there were some proposals. There were 2 or 3 proposals . one is concentrate all the settlements on a small piece of land in the West Bank. 3 or 4 percent and have a small, give the Palestinians 2 or 3 percent, 4 percent somewhere else. That's one solution. Another solution can be as there are Arabs living under non Arab government INAUDIBLE living under non Jewish government. This is different from war. You can not say lets have peace which is an extension of war. Doesn't make sense. Peace is a departure not an extension.,36:25:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Everything you say is so logical and beautiful why can't we have your vision implemented?,36:25:07>>>SHIMON PERES: People are angry and disappointed for good reasons. There is terror and violence and mistrust and dissolutions whatever you want. I agree. But if I can suggest a lesson I learned in my life that you can not a, achieve anything which is big without big disappointments and disillusions and troubles. And you think it's the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. And to do something big requires a great effort, a great determination. And face the disillusions with the same determination that you're facing the INAUDIBLE. And that's what we have to do. ,22:37:50>>>B-Roll pictures (no sound) END OF INTERVIEW
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Cafe Interviews pt 2
Interviews with people in a cafe about the current state of their country,00:36:27>>>, NAAMA:,Yes I've been to this café before, INTERVIEWER:,And why did you come here?,00:41:29>>>, NAAMA:,Today no special reason. Really close by so INAUDIBLE, INTERVIEWER:,Do you know that there was an attempted attack?,00:51:24>>>, NAAMA:,Yes I know there was an attempted attack here yeah. And ah didn't change my decision at all. Doesn't change my decision about all the decision I make in Israel my life here. Just go on with my life. Nothing has to do with the terror attacks or nothing., INTERVIEWER:,You're not afraid?,01:12:26>>>, NAAMA:,Um no I use to be afraid now I just live my life ah and I don't consider I am careful. There are some things that I wouldn't do but usually normally I just live my life and I don't mind., INTERVIEWER:,What happened you said you use to be afraid what changed?,01:31:24>>>, NAAMA:,Um 2 years ago I was afraid when the anitfata started was a big shock and I did change my life a little bit. But a few months later nothing changed here I mean it's not safe here usually. So I just went on with my life. I stopped being afraid. Wasn't helping., INTERVIEWER:,What do you think it'll be like in 10, 20 years?,02:03:05>>>, NAAMA:,The future I see my future here in Israel 10 years, 20 years, 50 years I want to live here no where else in Jerusalem maybe in Tel Aviv. My place is here absolutely., INTERVIEWER:,What do you think life will be like for your children?,02:21:13>>>, NAAMA:,It will be tough. Life for my children here in Israel I'm sure will be tough. Wont be easy as living in Australia or in ah I don't know in France. Um my life here was also the same. I mean my parents had to do that same decisions that I make. Um I guess my children will have to go to the army just like my dad did and my brother and everybody I know. And I'm just gonna I want to live here in Israel this is my life I don't mind I don't care and it's my place. , INTERVIEWER:,What is your solution to the people who are in charge?,03:02:27>>>, NAAMA:,It's hard to get a solution um peace is the solution absolutely. Talking to the other side all the time. No matter who sits on the other side we need to talk to them and um think about the Palestinian population also. Their life isn't easy also. , INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE?,03:55:23>>>, ETE:,I was born here. My parents. I was born here my parents came in the 20's 20th ah from Russia to Israel INAUDIBLE this is my country. This is my homeland. I don't see myself living elsewhere. Traveling in the world as a tourist of course always coming back to Israel., INTERVIEWER:,Did you ever consider leaving or for your children?,04:23:24>>>, ETE:,Never, never never., INTERVIEWER:,Even when your children went in the army?,04:28:16>>>, ETE:,Well this is ah our life. You know when a mother gives birth to a child in Israel especially to a son one of the first things that she's saying oh I hope that when he will be 18 he will not have to go to the army. But again, again and again all the mothers in Israel or most of them send their boys and even their girls to the army it's a fact, INTERVIEWER:,What about the Palestinian mothers what do you think?,04:58:17>>>, ETE:,I feel sorry for them. , INTERVIEWER:,Why?,05:04:05>>>, ETE:,I feel for sorry for them cause ah, INTERVIEWER:,For whom?,05:12:15>>>, ETE:,I feel sorry for the Palestinian mothers as well cause they have terrible life. And I'm sure that ah the problem is not with the people it's with the leaders but ah I don't find any solution. Any, any suggestions to make. It's a very, very complicated situation. It's generations of complicated situation and I'm afraid it will keep on going like this for I don't know how long., INTERVIEWER:,But you would want to live in peace with the Palestinians?,05:48:02>>>, ETE:,Of course. , INTERVIEWER:,Repeat it.,05:50:05>>>, ETE:,I want to have peace with the Palestinians it's out neighbors and we want to have good with them and for us. But the leaders have to do something about it and I don't see that they do anything about it. They keep on with the war and the problems., INTERVIEWER:,Do you think Palestinians can live side by side?,06:26:12>>>, ETE:,Well it's possible that the Palestinians and the Israelis will live together side by side peacefully if their leaders will be smart and strong enough to do the right decisions because it's in their hands actually everything. If they will educate the kids from the beginning for peace not for hate, INTERVIEWER:,Do you think someone is educated for hate?,06:54:04>>>, ETE:,There are unfortunately what I see and what I hear is that the kids in the Palestinian the Palestinian kids are brainwashed to hate from the very beginning. It's a crime and I feel sorry for both of our people. And I hope one day it'll be all right. , INTERVIEWER:,Do you think in your lifetime you'll be able to see peace here?,07:21:03>>>, ETE:,I hope so, I hope so. In my lifetime there will be peace but ah I'm not a prophet I don't know., INTERVIEWER:,What's your name?,07:35:20>>>, NAAMA:,My name is Nama., INTERVIEWER:,Could you spell that?,07:40:17>>>, NAAMA:,N-A-A-M-A, INTERVIEWER:,And your name?,07:43:00>>>, ETE:,My name is Ete and I'm Naama's mother. , INTERVIEWER:,What's your name?,08:13:07>>>, SNOME:,SNOME , INTERVIEWER:,And you?,08:15:08>>>, ONI:,Oni, ,08:18:27>>>, DENI:,I am Deni., INTERVIEWER:,And you all live in Israel?,08:21:06>>>, EVERYONE:,Yes., INTERVIEWER:,Tell us what you're doing here right now.,08:26:27>>>, SNOME:,We drink ah we eat ah some dinner in the coffee shop and ah we finish the work and now we have a good time., INTERVIEWER:,Is this unusual for you to come to a coffee shop?,08:39:02>>>, SNOME:,Not for me I am from the Tel Aviv so for me it's normal to go to do whatever I want., INTERVIEWER:,So would you say life in Israel is normal?,08:50:05>>>, SNOME:,For me., INTERVIEWER:,What would make it be different in Israel from any other country?,08:54:20>>>, SNOME:,Well a couple stupid things. Couple people think like INAUDIBLE they need to blow everything. It's not my problem., INTERVIEWER:,Doesn't change anything you do?,09:13:15>>>, SNOME:,A couple you can find a couple people afraid or don't go every night or something like that. But for me I live normally like before without change. If something need to come it come. This is what I believe., ,09:33:10 ONI:,I think that ah , INTERVIEWER:,Do you agree you're not afraid?,09:51:19>>>, SNOME:,He live in Jerusalem that's different. , ,09:55:05>>>, ONI:,My situation is a little different. My situation is a little different. Ah I prefer to go to more secure places then to open places. For example if a place is not under roof it's open like garden something like that I won't go there. It's more risky. That's more or less. If my friend call me let's go to have fun ask where if they tell me that it's secure place no problem but not in open place. , INTERVIEWER:,What do you see for the future is this new or old or is it gonna end?,10:38:12>>>, ONI:,I think that the Israelis want peace but the Palestinians does not. I think that as long as the INAUDIBLE said that as long as the Palestinians hate us more than then they love their children there won't be peace. There will be only peace after they will love their, their children less then they hate us. , INTERVIEWER:,Say that one more time.,11:05:20>>>, ONI:,There will peace only when the Palestinians will love their children more than they hate us. , INTERVIEWER:,Do you agree with that?,11:16:00>>>, DEDANETTE:,Um well I think that most of Israelis INAUDIBLE um but I'm not sure that say INAUDIBLE give up will give up everything. , INTERVIEWER:,If the solution was in you hands what would you do?,11:43:15>>>, DEDANETTE:,Well it's a difficult situation, ,11:49:25>>>, SNOME:,It's not, it's not about solution solution it's possible between us and the Palestinian but it's not possible between the religious Palestinians. We have the big problem is there. So from the Palestinian side or from the Israel side. There is the problem. When we can think about stones you know in Jerusalem everything INAUDIBLE. We need to break everything and that's it. We have solution. ,12:18:24>>>, ONI:,I don't see a solution in the near 10, 15 years. Maybe our children will, will get to live in more peaceful country. But I think that our, our parents said the same. So I suppose that we'll know INAUDIBLE peace until the messiah will come. , INTERVIEWER:,Did you ever consider leaving Israel?,12:11:05>>>, DEDANETTE:,No, never, INTERVIEWER:,Repeat it.,12:47:20>>>, DEDANETTE:,I never consider leaving Israel. I love this country, I love this country and I'm gonna live here and give birth here, have family here, have children here and um I'm very, very optimistic., INTERVIEWER:,What if there are more bombs all the time?,13:05:25>>>, DEDANETTE:,There are bombs. We live here for nearly 7 years under a great antifata and live in fear and I go in busses in fear but we still live. We INAUDIBLE. We don't think about the future. We think about growing family here. We think about living here but right now we see the INAUDIBLE, INTERVIEWER:,If you had the choice to live in peace with Palestinians as 2 states what would you want to do?,13:37:29>>>, DEDANETTE:,It's a difficult question. , INTERVIEWER:,Would you want a 2 state solution?,13:47:05>>>, DEDANETTE:,In 2 state solution well I believe in peace but I don't know ah whether it will be 2 countries or an agreement other kind. I believe in my government and I believe that they will do the right choices for us. , INTERVIEWER:,What do you think the Palestinians want?,14:09:22>>>, DEDANETTE:,Oh well most of all I think that they, that they want a country for their own. , INTERVIEWER:,Who repeat from the beginning.,14:17:25>>>, DEDANETTE:,I that think the Palestinians want country from their own but it will never come on count our account cause you can't take our land, you cant take our life and they wont it but it's ours. It's from the law and it's from the history it's ours. So that's why we have war., INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE,14:55:20>>>, DEDANETTE:,Well um that's right different countries come and go and this land will stay but the Jewish will always stay too. And we, we survived the holocaust and we survived a lot of other wars and we all say god help., INTERVIEWER:,If you could have peace would you live with Arabs and Palestinians?,15:18:19>>>, DEDANETTE:,Yes we want peace and we want to live,15:21:05>>>, ONI:,We use to live until the anti fata we lived together with them. We worked with them, we ate with them, we went, we went everywhere with them. I had Palestinian friend. But now , ,15:35:00>>>, DEDANETTE:,I worked with Palestinians in a lot of jobs., INTERVIEWER:,So what happened?,15:40:24>>> DEDANETTE:,You need to ask them. I think that they have the answer. Why did it start? I think that they had a great life before this it's all started. Now we'll go to the, to the west Jerusalem and you'll see they have no work. All they do is to, to have to study their children how to hate us and how to throw stones at us. That's all they learn them. They don't learn other things, INTERVIEWER:,They said they didn't have rights and they didn't have water and they didn't have food?,16:21:19>>>, ONI:,If you put, if you go to Syria and ask the Syrian people if they had rights or if they had money Syria even to Egypt that to Egypt or to any other country you will see that the Palestinians before the fata lived a lot better than the Syrian, the Iranian people., ,16:42:14>>>, SNOME:,I had read about Gaza and other place maybe INAUDIBLE I believe Israel make mistake for many years but it's because we have some reasons. Nobody ah want to make shit life but because they make a big problem to there so we can't give them like (PAUSE), ,17:07:29>>>, DEDANETTE:,I think that when our parents came to Israel they didn't have food, they didn't have water, they didn't have place to live and they need to start from where we started in education in other things., INTERVIEWER:,Do you think the Israelis like to control the Palestinians?,17:31:24>>>, ONI:,I I'm sure that we don't like the occupation ok but we, we decided to separate from them. Barak gave them almost everything but they didn't want it. They wanted all of the country. They still want all of the country. And you know what I don't blame the little Palestinian man or the poor Palestinian individual. I think that there leadership it's their leadership interest to make them suffer that they help hate us together and by the um by that the will cause them hate us and fight against us., INTERVIEWER:,If the Israelis don't like the occupation why don't they just leave the west bank?,18:18:14>>>, SNOME:,How you can do that.,18:19:15>>>, ONI:,Cause if we will leave the west bank,18:20:13>>>, SNOME:,5 minutes after that they'll destroy their selves. You can't go like that. Like in the first when Israel is start leaving ok the British be here and after that the German want to come here. So when Israel get the promise we have piece land back so you must start to survive. You must fight against, we survive for many years until we have like 10, 10 big wars against many countries. And we're only 6 million people now before we were like 3 million and we survived that ok so I can tell you something like that once I was in INAUDIBLE and I had Egyptian guys friend and we met Canadian guy. They start to talk about like talking about the war this time, this time Israel no, no. We fight against them fight I give him all the right to say what he wants. It's true we fight this time. So after he finish I told him you're finished he say yes. I told him ok so how you can explain that only in Egypt you are something like 30 million I say more but 30 million this time and Syria 60 million in Jordan 30 doesn't matter. In Israel it was like 3 million people. How you not won in this time? Against 3 million people it was less in this time and half from that is old people, children, wife. So what you say like. You say ok we have many war like say to the Canadian guy like we are very powerful but you cant, can't win against something like very small army., INTERVIEWER:,If the settlers leave everything will be ok?,20:27:11>>>, ONI:,If the settlers will leave the West Bank I think it won't help. As long as the settlers sit there and their armies sit there the West Bank won't be a green house for the bomb suiciding. As long as we are there they can't, they can't do all these actions us all of the INAUDIBLE., , INTERVIEWER:,But a lot of Israelis hate the settlers?,20:54:19>>>, ONI:,A lot of Israelis hate the settlers hate the settlers that's,20:56:10>>>, SNOME:,We have problem with that too I told you that. That is a problem in Israel too. , INTERVIEWER:,It looks like you 2 disagree what happens if you disagree?,21:09:13>>>, ONI:,Because I'm more ah close to the religion and he's not. He's you know., INTERVIEWER:,Talk about democracy in Israel.,21:20:18>>>, ONI:,There's something very simple. In our country we live in democracy so he can tell that he don't like the settlers and he don't like the Jewish religion etc., etc. In Palestine, INTERVIEWER:,Start over.,21:44:15>>>, ONI:, In Israel it's a democracy so someone like him can, can say that I don't like the Jewish people, the, the Jewish religious or the settlers like that and like this. But in Palestine if you will say I don't like Arafat so in the middle of the night some will come and take you and you will disappear. Ok or you don't like Hamas so someone from the Hamas will take you. So you can't, you can't say that someone is not it's not ok. ,22:14:25>>>, SNOME:,It's a big problem inside.,22:15:14>>>, ONI:,Everyone that you will say that he's not ok or I don't like him someone from his group will come and take you, take you and you will disappear. , INTERVIEWER:,You think even though you disagree it's important that you disagree?,22:32:00>>>, ONI:,Even though I disagree with him I think that it's good to have different opinions. We live in a democratic country and it's very important that every, every feeling will be heard. , ,22:46:25>>>, SNOME:,And I can say something else about I know how Palestinian when it started fata like even don't want to be inside to the fata to have problem they want live to have work and if somebody come to tell them you must do something against the Israel. If you don't do something we kill all your family. So if you don't do that in time they kill all his family. So it's an oppress from the Israel oppression. It's oppress from al the groups from everywhere from the Hamas, from the jihad from everywhere. What they can do? I understand them but what they can do? We must survive too so I'm sorry. You want to kill me I need to wake up in the morning and protect myself. This is fine. , INTERVIEWER:,Your name please?,23:50:15>>>, ONI:,My name is Snome, Oni, Dedanette., INTERVIEWER:,And how old are you?,23:56:15>>>, DEDANETTE:,23 Dedanette 23.,23:59:17>>>, ONI:,Oni 27 Jerusalem,24:02:09>>>, SNOME:,Snome 39 Tel Aviv., INTERVIEWER:,What's your name?,25:09:20>>>, GILAD:,Gilad, INTERVIEWER:,What do you do?,25:11:04>>>, GILAD:,I'm security guard., INTERVIEWER:,Where do you work here?,25:15:10>>>, GILARD:,Here yes yeah. The coffee shop yeah., INTERVIEWER:,How come why are you here?,25:20:17>>>, GILARD:,Why I'm here money, make money. , INTERVIEWER:,So your job why do you have this job?,25:38:26>>>, GILARD:,Why I'm here it's easy money. Easy money it's a lot of a lot of hours., INTERVIEWER:,Btu why is there a guard at this café?,25:55:02>>>, GILARD:,There's a guard at this cause the situation the suicide bomber situation. The all terror the terror in this country. So it's everything is guarded required places like that., INTERVIEWER:,Do you think it's important to have a guard?,26:12:05>>>, GILARD:,If I think it's important to have a guard yeah, yeah. It's ah it's kind of determine to see someone standing here, the guard. And ah it makes people feel comfortable and secure when they see someone with supposed to be watching them watching their back., INTERVIEWER:,And what is your job you're supposed to protect the people here?,26:34:05>>> GILARD:,Ah yeah kind of yeah. I'm supposed to check bags and ah check for guns, gun license. Check who's coming in coming out., INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE,26:50:04>>>, GILARD:,The profile there is no ah no profile. You just have to look and be encounter by your instinct. Things like that. , ,27:11:09>>>, GILARD:,This is my job. This is what I do., INTERVIEWER:,So does there always have to be somebody sitting here?,27:21:10>>>, GILARD:,Ah yeah, yeah, yeah. The situation I think so yeah. But ah I don't know what to tell you because I'm doing this for 2 months and 2 months I haven't seen even a bit of something that can be frightening for people here. But still I'm here. , INTERVIEWER:,Do you know what happened there?,27:55:07>>>, GILARD:,No but ah no actually no., INTERVIEWER:,What if somebody came here and they were suspicious what do you do?,28:07:10>>>, GILARD:,If some, if somebody would come with the looking suspicious or with a bomb on himself I don't actually there is not much to do if he got to here cause ah but still it's important to have someone to, to maybe can I, I will have the chance to neutralize him or anything and it's giving much more chance to not be able to do nothing., INTERVIEWER:,Do you have a gun?,28:34:24>>>, GILARD:,No. I'm not licensed for a gun. I don't have access to a gun., INTERVIEWER:,Do you think things will change here soon or it will always be like this?,28:47:23>>>, GILARD:,If I think things will change ah not, not in the near future., INTERVIEWER:,What will have to happen?,28:55:21>>>, GILARD:,What will have to happen great miracle people will start to be more tolerant to each other which I don't think gonna be happening soon not around here., INTERVIEWER:,What's your name?,29:12:07>>>, GILARD:,Gilard.
Marlène in Playboy, her first success
Radio France: filmed programmes
1980S MUSIC SHOWS
EPISODE 2 -- 4/7/1984 TONIGHTS SHOW FEATURES, CAPTAIN SENSIBLE (RAYMOND BURNS) SHOWS US AROUND HIS HOME TOWN OF CROYDON. GVS CROYDON INCLUDING WHITGIFT CENTRE. STUDIO PERFORMANCE FROM CHAKA KHAN SINGING AIN'T NOBODY. GARY CROWLEY REVIEWS THIS WEEKS SINGLE RELEASES WITH DAVE GAHAN OF DEPECHE MODE. TRIBUTE TO MARVIN GAYE INCLUDING ARCHIVE FROM SOUL TRAIN. STUDIO PERFORMANCE FROM CHAKA KHAN SINGING ONE MILLION KISSES. NICKY HORNE MEETS AND INTERVIEWS RAY DAVIES. REPORT ON NORTHERN SOUL MOVEMENT IN MORECAMBE,GVS ARCADE AND PIER. GVS PEOPLE DANCING AND BUYING RECORDS. I/V SEAN GIBBONS,I/V RICHARD SEARLING,I/V JOHN VINCENT AND I/V IAN LEVINE. EAR-SAY,CHANNEL 4'S NEW 60 MINUTE MUSIC SHOW,IS THE FIRST TV PROGRAMME TO EXAMINE IN DEPTH THE CURRENT MUSIC SCENE AND IT'S MANY DIVERSIFICATIONS INTO FILM,VIDEO,FASHION AND BOOKS. PRESENTED BY NICKY HORNE,LESLEY-ANNE JONES AND GARY CROWLEY.
Companies spending around #2 million a minute for ads during Super Bowl hope it will leave impression on viewers
FTG OF E-TRADE AND PEPSI SUPERBOWL COMMERCIALS ROBERT KRULWICH CS VO ON COMPANIES SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR ONE MINUTE ADS DURING THE SUPERBOWL IN HOPES TO CATCH VIEWERS ATTENTION
Companies spending around #2 million a minute for ads during Super Bowl hope it will leave impression on viewers
FTG OF E-TRADE AND PEPSI SUPERBOWL COMMERCIALS ROBERT KRULWICH CS VO ON COMPANIES SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR ONE MINUTE ADS DURING THE SUPERBOWL IN HOPES TO CATCH VIEWERS ATTENTION
PA-3846 Beta SP
Universal Newsreel Stories (California) (No. 2)
CELEBRITIES
B10. HRN-3271 In: 05.17.50 Out: 05.19.08 Sound Bite: Zack Snyder Yeah no it’s difficult because I mean like when we made 300 we really made it, we made Watchmen in the same style, but we really made it in a botiquey way you know like. People are like, oh you know Watchmen’s a giant 20 million dollar movie with giant special effects and everything, but the truth is it’s just us making it, it’s my I make it with my buddy from college and my wife’s my producer, it’s not a uh we really feel like we’re making it for ourselves, for small group of people and when we made 300 we made it, I just thought it was gonna be for a bunch of fan boys who would think it’s cool and love Frank Miller, and then you know it just happened to have I think themes and style that people enjoyed and I mean the same thing is interesting with Watchmen you know. My expectations for Watchmen were always like, look, this is a difficult movie, I don’t know how many people’s gonna go see this. Um but I know I have to do it a certain way. There’s no other way to make the movie and in that sense you know I’ve been really pleased by what we’ve done at the box office in like what this movie is because it’s a hard R it’s 2 hours and 47 minutes long, it’s you know superheroes like beating the crap out of each other so it’s kind like you know it’s rough action but.