Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard Trial (Day 5) - JOHNNY DEPP - PLAINTIFF - DIRECT
FAIRFAX, VIRGINIA - APRIL 19: 14:47:30 between time of nightmare on elm st and 21 jump st how did you enjoy acting? it was foreign to me. but i didnt have any great ambition to be an actor. im naturally, normally, ive always been a shy person. quiet introverted so there was a v strange metamorphesis from being one of four in a band where you have this brotherhood. and out there fighting the world togther to get that record deal. and when i got on this series and my life started to change ppl started to - go in reasturant and ppl pointing i was uncomf w it. i didnt like ti 14:49:06 (Footage by Law&Crime via Getty Images)
DOLLAR TALKS END
Washington D.C., United States of America (USA). <br/> <br/>CU. Paul Hoffman, ECA administrator. SCU. Dean Acheson, US Secretary of State. MS. Group of delegates (2 shots). MS. Britain's Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin and John Snyder, US Secretary of the Treasury with Canadian Foreign Minister Mr Lester Pearson, Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer Sir Stafford Cripps and Sir Oliver Franks, British Ambassador, in background, pan to include rest of group. SCU. Mr Bevin and Mr Snyder. Mr Snyder speaks - natural sound: "We feel that the series of discussions that have just been completed have been signally successful in enabling us to work out a basis to approach the solution to many of the difficult problems facing us today. We feel that these discussions, which we have just concluded have been exceptionally successful in enabling us to arrive at our original objective. We have found through our frank talks here that there are approaches that we can make, and have made, to enable us to solve many of the problems with which we're confronted." SCU. Mr Bevin and Mr Snyder. Ernest Bevin speaks - natural sound: "We've been engaged in this past week in the making of history. It will, I think, like many other events since the war, turn out to be a historic week. We've settled fundamental economic and financial problems and arrived at agreement on many points. We've achieved methods to carry on the work until we reach a greater and more important solution, and in that task a great spirit of understanding that exists between the three governments represented here, augurs well for the future peace of the world." (Last part of speech spoiled by background noise). SCU. Lester Pearson and Sir Stafford Cripps, pan to Sir Oliver Franks. CU. Douglas Abbott with hands over eyes. CU. Ernest Bevin (2 shots). MS. Delegates rise and walk away. <br/> <br/>(Comb.F.G.) <br/> <br/>Information found in the old record - Cuts 49/75. Natural sound only, poor quality.
1980s NEWS
INTERVIEW CONTINUED Jim Bouton 20:35 I think that's a clue into the insight here. What he really hasn't. You see, he played some football in college, but he really never made it to the pros. And I think he's a very he's a frustrated athlete. And I think this is his his attempt to play for the New York Yankees or at that level Robert Lipsyte 20:50 when you're in his box. Bill is his body English. He's moving with the pitches with Bill Fugazi 20:56 every play. By the way, you're wrong, john, I mean, he may not have been a pro football player. He's a very good athlete. He was a top runner. He competed in Melrose games. And he's a good athlete, and boy, you know, he's no puss. I mean, he's a tough guy. He's not, he doesn't need anyone to protect them or be around him. Jim Bouton 21:14 he punched somebody in an elevator once, didn't he. I mean, how many grown men get into a fight in an elevator Robert Lipsyte 21:20 here, he got both wearing New York Yankee World Series ring, right? He earned his Well, you earned yours too. You're a friend of George's. Bill Fugazi 21:29 that's one of the great pleasures of my life. Let me just say this to you. As far as the elevator goes, Jim Bouton 21:33 you're not exactly an objective. Bill Fugazi 21:37 I'll criticize George when he has to be criticized. But I mean, you mentioned the elevator. I happen to know about that incident. George was attacked in New York was they were booing New York and the guys were drunk. They wouldn't didn't even want their names printed. The George swing and well, you know, George wasn't a heavyweight champion. Well, maybe he doesn't have to throw a punch. I tell him he should throw it for the gut, not for the head. But that's neither here nor there. You can say what you want you can be for George's moves. You can be against George's will. George Steinbrenner does one good thing after another for this city, for this state for this country, for charities, more than anyone knows, just talked to the coach at Grambling. They didn't have any money, George flew to team to play a game for them. No one prints that stuff, just what he does for the police and fire in New York. I know what he does. I see the operations that he pays for, Robert Lipsyte 22:31 let's say bottom line. I mean, as our season opens, his season is ending in the Yankees have not done well? That's right. We had a bad year. We had a bad year. Oh, yeah, you your Yankees are Bill Fugazi 22:42 I'm a Yankee all my life. I've been going to the stadium with my Father, Lord, have mercy on him since I was six or seven years old. So Robert Lipsyte 22:49 well, your Yankee too. Do you say we know I don't. How do you fit the end of the season? Well, yeah, it's fine. You're glad that the Yankees are losing aren't you? Jim Bouton 22:58 Well, I think No, no, I wouldn't say I'm glad I just I don't feel that it's a tragedy that the Yankees aren't winning, because they think that if the fans are honest about it, they'll realize that the Yankees have won more than their share of pennants metric. They've won 20 World Champions, I figured it out 20 World Championships and in approximately 80 years that baseball has been played. And if you feel if you if you realize that every team in the major leagues is entitled to win one World Championship, there should be one every 26 years. So by those rather by that calculation, the Yankees are not due to win a World Championship until the year 2474. Because cubs gotta win a whole bunch that you know, I mean, the Minnesota boy. So Robert Lipsyte 23:39 Bob has a philosophy of balance of nature. Prof Bob Gurland 23:42 I think that one thing is true. I think that the fans in the main do expect at times the teams to lose. And I think you know that they don't really necessarily hold George accountable for the fact that the team is losing. What they don't like is really his style. And his his his focus on Celebrity was interesting. I did a quick experiment in one of my classes this morning, I asked my class if there are any students in the class who had no interest in sport and baseball whatsoever. 20 of them raise their hand, all 20 knew who Steinbrenner was and all 20 of them could pick them out of a police lineup. I asked them who was the owner of the New York Mets equally loved and equally adored. Not a single one of those 20 knew the owner of the Mets and I think that's rather interesting, because it indicates somehow how Steinbrenner has placed himself. Visa v vie fan in New York
BARACK OBAMA WELCOMES WORLD SERIES CHAMPS, KANSAS CITY ROYALS CUTS
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA welcomes the World Series Champs, the Kansas City Royals to the White House. East Room. FS33X73 CUTS 11:44:32 SHOWS FORMER HHS SECRETARY AND GOVERNOR OF KANSAS Kathleen Sebelius WITH HER HUSBAND IN THE AUDIENCE 11:49:17 TS OF SEBELIUS
DN-LB-522 Beta SP; NET-647 DigiBeta (PT 1 at 01:00:00:00); NET-648 DigiBeta (PT 2 at 01:00:00:00)
Yanks Win Series 4-1
New York Yankee Ticker Tape Parade; 10/30/00
Footage surrounding the New York Yankees World Series Ticker Tape Parade after beating the Mets in a subway series: Firemen scramble to put out garbage fires in steet of New York (ticker taoe on fire and burns like a brushfire); Firetrucks race to scene; Police try to maintain order; (14:08:00)- Shots of stage where the Yankee pep rally is being held near city hall; (14:29:15)- The Radio City Hall Rockettes are inroduced, they come out and do dance routine to "New York New York"; (14:31:27)- John Sterling (yankee radio announcer) speaks at podium along with Michael K (sport announcer); (14:33:23)- Yankee team introduced: Joe Torre, Derek Jeter and the rest all seen; (14:34:40)- Cheryl Howard introduced, sings National Anthem, colorguard marches out with American flag as does a man holding a bald eagle; (14:37:27)- Rudolph Giuliani speaks at podium, has moment for silence in memory of the U.S.S. Cole victims; Giuliani speaks (looks like umpire); (14:43:29)- George Steinbrenner and George Pataki invited up to unveil the Championship trophy; Pataki makes speech, hands out NY vanity license plates to certain people: Derek Jeter (MVP), Joe Torre (3-Peat), Ruddy Giuliani (#1 Fan); ( 14:48:42)- Giuliani introduces Sterling and K again; (14:49:10)- John Fogerty comes out and sings "Centerfield"; (14:53:45)- Giuliani gives out the keys to the city to: Steinbrenner ans other management; (14:55:35)- Yogi Berra given key, Joe Torre, Chris Chambliss and other coaches; (15:01:03)- Yankee players introduced and given keys including: Roger Clemens, David Cone, Dwight Gooden, Derek Jeter, etc.; (15:14:40)- Joe Torre makes speech; Andy Petite speaks; An Assorment of players make speeches; (15:24:14) Singer Robert Marra/ Meril? intoduced, sings "Take Me Out to the Ballgame"; Giuliani holds up "Freddy The Fan's" noisemaker and sign; People pose with trophy;
SUBWAY SERIES
00:00:00:00 - people watching Yankees v. Mariners game in sports bar / MOS&apos;s 06:48:55 06:49:22 whoever wins the subway series, our children will either be r aised met fans or yankee fans. 06:49:5 ...
Le journal 23h00: [21 September 2021 issue]
franceinfo:
YANKEES ON VERGE OF SERIES SWEEP (10/27/1999)
CAN THE YANKS MAKE IT A SWEEP!!???
The Peacekeepers
Series of shots of UN Secretariat building in New York seen from various points in city, including great PAN SHOTS of skyline across river at dusk and city light at night (17:22). Night shots of World Trade Centre light beams (1:49). Shots of flowers on WTC memorial, TILT UPs to LAS of light beams (2:02). MSs, MLSs of mural in memory of 9/11 on façade of Saint Paul's Chapel, TILT UP to LAS of light beams (2:26). Early morning shot of display of empty flag posts in front of General Assembly building, PAN RIGHT and TILT UP to LAS of Secretariat building, several shots (1:14). LAMS of flag posts against sun veiled by thin clouds, ZOOM IN to MCS of UN flag floating at top of mast, reverse shot, several shots (3:39). CS of UN flag, ZOOM OUT to CS of sign in memory of fallen UN staff on fence, LAS of top of UN building, TILT DOWN back to sign and flag (1:36).
The Vanishing World - Native American Indian
Films documenting the Native American Indians in the early 1900's showing people, lifestyle, culture, crafts, hunting, religion. Very interesting and rare footage showing customs of Native American Indians. The interstitial cards describe the different cultures and how the Indians were poorly treated. Views of the landscape - mountains, river, prairies Views of the wildlife - bear, elk, buffalo . These were used for food and clothing Herds of free roaming buffalo 04:07:00 - Actuality footage of Prarie Indians constructing teepees 04:08:00 - Houses built of adobe and stone 04:08:30 - Navajo's housing built of logs and mud 04:09:00 - Navajo men go out tohunt 04:09:25 - women tanning hides 04:09:45 - Havasupai women carrying wood, making baskets 04:10:30 - Pueblo women grinding corn, making bread in ovens, 04:11;30 - Hopi Indians live high over the desert and women carrying earthen jugs of water to their dwellings 04:12:19 - Hair dressing of the Crow woman and the tradition of men painting into the part 04:12:50 - Ceremonial Peace Pipe being shared - whole ceremony captured 04:15:50 - a battle on the Prairie 04:17:26 - returnof the victorious war party 04:18:07 - ceremony at the river to give thanks. Medicine Man, women cutting willows and bringing firewood and gathering stones, heating stones and smoking peace pipe and purification bathing 04:20:47 - narrative cards say that there was infrequent battles among tribes prior to the White Man 's arrival 04:21:46 - War chants and preparation for warm heading out on horseback 04:23:00 - on the war trail and scouuting for enemy 04:25:30 - approaching and invading enemy village and killing. 04:27:40 - vanquished 04:28:30 - The Navajo covers its tracks by riding through the dry sandy prairie 04:29:00 - End of the trail - Indians now look at the destruction of their race as the White Man has changed things. The Bureau of Ethnology at Washington says that the INdian Population has decreased 65% since the coming ofthe White Man. 325,000 remain where there were one million two hundred thousand. 04:30:23 - the Hopi mother fashions the hair of her daughter into whorl shape indicating she is ready for marriage 04:30:57 - sheep and goats herded on teh desert and the women weaving wool into blankets. 04:31:50 - men shaving as facial hair is considered a disgrace. godd shot of man shavingwith wife and child 04:32:05 - Indian use of the stomach stick to aid digestion and build muscle 04:32:40 - communicating through smoke signals and hand signals which is now becoming extinct. Seen is Mountain Chief, Blackfoot, telling the story of the battle of Hope-Up in sign language to a group of Sioux Indians. 04:34:00 - love making and wooing varies among tribves. The Crow adorns himself in his richest garb and parades before the woman of his affections until his solicitaitons are accepted 04:35:12 - War bonnet is most imosing feature of ceremonial regalia. Every eagle feather represents some deed of valor 04:35:30- - there are over 200 ways of painting the face and body to express the voice of a vision or a dream. Paint expreses symbolism, to protect the face and distinguish the tribe. Also used to express personal desire or purpose of conduct. Paiting bodies for war trail seen. 04:36:00 - Pueblo women wear deer skin leggings to protect themselves but also to show social standing and financial position of their family. THe thicker the windings the greater the aristocracy of their status. 04:37:13 - A Trip to the Arctic with Uncle Sam aboard the USS Bear - observing fish and seal hunting. Boat cutting through the icelands. Point Barrow Alaska - land of the Midnight Sun - 10 months of daylight - northernmost point.views of homes and village and people. 04:39:19 - Eskimo watching on beach. Eskimo dogs seen. Groups of children seen and then in school. Boys taught business and industry, girls to sew and cook and keep house polar bear cub seen as pet 04:41:55 - monument market which separates boundary of Canada and Alaska. Views of water and icefields and icebergs 04:43:10 - Point Hope, Alaska - igloos - frames made of whale bones, walls of sod. Men and women wearing fur coat 04:44:30 - graveyards - cemetary fenced with whale bones. Reindeer imported but now vast hers roam the fields. Reindeer meat is now new industry. Killing of reindeer seen. Reindeer is as delicious as steak or chicken. 04:47:00 - USS Bear continues its way through the waterways to Plver Bay, Siberia - veiws of ship and its crew. Eskimo welcomes the visitors with dances and celebrations. Also a wrstling match exhibition. 04:49:00 - A New Deal is imposed - all tribes must raise the stars and stripes. Expedition of Citizenship making them sign declaration of allegiance to US. views of Oglala Sioux, Pine Ridge Reservation dedicating the flag. 04:51:05 - Otoe, Missouri, Kaw, Ponca, Pawnee and Tonkawa Indians raising the flag on the Otoe reservation in Oklahoma 04:51:47 - flags presented to each tribe. 04:54:00 - This New Morning will come - there has been a recodificaiton of Indian Laws, the Indian will be freed from teh perils and evils of the Reservation system, parental control over the INdians has been abolished...it goes about rights the Indians should now have including the indian given full citizenship and equality and how not really true. Final statement about how much the Indians have not received the promses. Good shot of Indians on horseback riding off into sunset. Gladiators of other days have paused for a silent moment on the hill crest...Indians seen charging down a hill towards camera - Prohpecy died yesterday and despair - the despair of tomorrow writes its gloomy headlines upon every advance step of their journey. A series of shots of Indians on horseback in silhouette against the setting sun .
Made in America: Biden in the footsteps of Trump
TF1 News (Private - August 1982 ->)
Aerial view of the city and St. Joseph Oratory of Mount Royal with drone
Saint Joseph's Oratory of Mount Royal (French: Oratoire Saint-Joseph du Mont-Royal) is a Roman Catholic minor basilica and national shrine located at 3800 Queen Mary Road on Mount Royal's Westmount Summit in Montreal, Quebec. It is a National Historic Site of Canada and is Canada's largest church, with one of the largest church domes in the world. Founded in 1904 by Saint André Bessette in his patron saint, Saint Joseph's honour, the Oratory was brought alive through the work and ingenuity of numerous architects and thousands of workers in a process spanning six decades. With its monumental scale, Renaissance Revival facade and contrasting Art Deco interior, all of which were atypical for a church in North America at the time, the Oratory is recognizable not just in Montreal but around the world, attracting more than 2 million visitors and pilgrims each year. The Oratory is the highest building in Montreal and rises more than 30 meters higher than the height of Mount Royal's summit, allowing it to be seen from many kilometers away. It is one of the few buildings that violates the height restriction under the municipal building code of Montreal. Since 2018, the dome and lantern atop the Oratory have undergone a series of renovations by architecture firms Atelier TAG and Architecture49, which are expected to be completed in 2022. The C$80 million project will create safe access to the lantern which will allow for an unprecedented 360-degree view over the mountain of the city.
0/01/63 A0000025 NEW YORK CITY -- YANKEE MANGER RALPH HOUK ASSESSES TEAT'S CONDITION PRIOR TO WORLD SERIES. (F, SP)
0/01/63 A0000025 NEW YORK CITY -- YANKEE MANGER RALPH HOUK ASSESSES TEAT'S CONDITION PRIOR TO WORLD SERIES. (F, SP) NX 28175 "RALPH BOOK" SHOES: (1) EXTERIOR OF YANKEE STADIUM, 5 SECS; (2) 2 - SHOTS, FIELD, 8; (3) MOU, RALPH HOUK SOF, 49 (37FT -- 1:02 SECS) SHOT 10/1/63 CUTS SHOW: VARIOUS INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR SHOTS OF STADIUM SHOWING PREPARATIONS FOR WORLD SERIES, HOUR SOF (148FT) WORLD SERIES - PREPS BASEBALL NEW YORK YANKEES BASEBALL TEAM SPORTS STADIUMS - YANKEE STADIUM HOUK, (NEW YORK YANKEE MANAGER) RALPH - SOF EVDOKIMOFF / 185 / 16 / NEG
CY Young Award Johnson (2001)
HE CAN ALREADY BE CALLED A WORLD CHAMPION, WORLD SERIES CO M-V-P, AND NOW YOU CAN ADD FOUR TIME CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER TO RANDY JOHNSON'S TITLE.
BEVIN SPEAKS AT UN MEETING
New York, United States of America (USA). <br/> <br/>LS. Britain's Foreign Secretary Mr Ernest Bevin walking to rostrum to address United Nations meeting. Various shots of Mr Bevin speaking - natural sound: "Now sir, I'd like at this stage to have the opportunity of dealing with some of the reflections which Mr Vyshinsky made upon my Government, and other Governments in relation to the parts we have played in their foreign policy and in the promotion and conclusion of the Brussels Treaty and the signature and organisation of the Atlantic Pact. The Atlantic Pact is one of the great events of history. The threatening language used by Mr Vyshinsky in his speech of last Friday is the same that has been fed to us year after year. It is a constant repetition of untruths in the hope that if you keep repeating them often enough someone will believe them. I made it quite clear in my contribution to the debate in the assembly last year that if it was found we could not proceed on a universal basis, as we had hoped, we must try to get on with those with whom we could. We came to this conclusion because there was so much to do as a result of the war, and if one or two countries won't work with you, then you must go on working with all those who will work with you if you are going to achieve any results. The result has been that the prediction has now come true, for after all, the Atlantic powers are a community. They have a similar civilisation. They all adhere the basic principles of liberty and democracy. They do not rely on secret police. They believe in Government by the people, for the people, uncontrolled by any dictatorship. It's a natural development that these powers should come together but we've taken care to come together within the framework of this United Nations. But we continually hear the plea of prohibition of the atomic weapons and then attempt to place blame upon us and others for failing to make prohibition a reality. This is really a stupid charge. We are as anxious as anyone for prohibition. The original declaration by President Truman, Mr Attlee and Mr MacKenzie King, issued in Washington in 1945, called for the elimination of the atomic weapons. The resolution of the General Assembly of January 24th 1946, repeated this call. Since then a series of resolutions adopted by overwhelming majorities it the Atomic Energy Commission itself, emphasis this essential aim of the elimination of the atomic weapon. We and others have recognised that effective prohibition depends on effective control of atomic energy. In common with others we support the plan approved by the General Assembly because it would provide for effective control. Nevertheless, the Soviet have clung obstinately to the proposals for the control they put forward in 1947, which has been rejected over and over again as inadequate. They have continued to decry the plan approved by this Assembly. I listened to the speech last Friday with very great care, and I would like to ask, because it is foolish to go on arguing if there is no disagreement, are we now to understand that the Soviet Government will now accept the decision of the United Nations. LV. We have approached all these problems on the basis of collective security first, disarmament with inspection second and enforceable control. And so finally not withstanding all our disappointments in these great problems, yet the United Nations has performed a great task. We shall not build a world organisation in a day, or a year, but it will grow. One of its great advantages is its debate, exchange of views, open discussion of different approaches to world problems. All these annual events and agencies which it has created, I feel confidently is gradually helping to develop in the minds and hearts of the people a greater importance of international law, of the rule of law, of the moral acceptance of law and its necessity for the adoption of a high standard of moral values in the enforcement of law. The necessity, I would emphasise this, for the universal adoption of the optional clauses, for the willing acceptance of decisions even if they be not to our liking. Of course, this ought to be carefully studied, therefore, in spite of frustration, it is the peoples' will I'm convinced we should go forward and not lose sight of the great objective man has always had before him - universal peace, universal brotherhood, and the means to settle all disputes without resort to force." LS. Bevin steps down from rostrum, pan to cheering assembly. <br/> <br/>(Comb.Dupe.Neg.) <br/> <br/>Information found in the old record - Cuts 49/80.
; 1954
15:01:17:00,CHURCHILL & DULLES AGREE ON EURO DEFENSE PACT DULLES, CHURCHILL & EDEN DULLES & EDEN, HOMES ARE MERGED TO CREATE SCHOOL SCHOOL CHILDREN LIVING ROOM, PARIS FIRE INFERNO IN PARIS FIGHTING FIRE, GERMANY 'CHOIR OF ANGELS' TOUR THE UNITED STATES PIGTAILED GERMAN SCHOOL GIRLS CHOIR OF ANGELS SING, TRYGVE VLI VISITS UNITED STATES VLI~TRYGVE, SPORTS (SKI JUMPING,FOOTBALL), OKLAHOMA (27) BEATS CALIFORNIA TA BERKLEY (13) GAME ACTION, SKI JUMPING AT SOLDIER FIELD IN CHICAGO SKI JUMPING IN STADIUM, MISS SWEATER GIRL OF 1954 GIRLS IN SWEATERS WINNER IS CROWNED MISS SWEATER GIRL 1954, LIBRARY OPENS IN BERLIN FILLING LIBRARY SHELVES WITH BOOKS U.S. COMMISSIONER KONAT DEDICATES BERLIN LIBRARY READING ROOM OF BERLIN LIBRARY NEWS #94 (15:04:49:00), SEARCH FOR UNDERSEA OIL DIVERS UNDERWATER, NINTH UNITED NATIONS SESSION CONVENES DIPLOMATS ARRIVE AT U.N. BERNARD BARUCH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS DELEGATES VOTE FOR NEW PRESIDENT OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY, NEWSMAN HELD BY COMMUNIST CHINESE IS RELEASED DIXON GREETS PARENTS UPON ARRIVAL IN NEW YORK, MISSOURI PRISON RIOT GOVERNOR OF MISSOURI AT PRISON RIOT BURNING PRISON BUILDINGS, NIAGARA FALLS GOLDEN JUBILEE OF WEDDINGS WEDDING CEREMONY NIAGARA FALLS HONEYMOON COUPLE OF THE YEAR NIAGARA FALLS COUPLE WHO WERE MARRIED AT NIAGARA FALLS 50 YEARS AGO SIGN ON BACK OF COACH: MR. AND MRS. NIAGARA FALLS OF 1954, FIRST CASUALTY OF H-BOMB EXPLOSIONS NURSES TEND TO H-BOMB VICTIM FAMILY KEEPS VIGIL FOR VICTIM OF H-BOMB, SOCCER ON HORSEBACK FIVE FOOT SOCCER BALL BATTED AROUND BY HORSES, DEMPSEY MEETS FIRPO AGAIN JUAN PERON EMBRACES DEMPSEY & FIRPO DEMPSEY & FIRPO GREET EACH OTHER IN RING, USC (39) BEATS WASHINGTON STATE (0) IN FOOTBALL LINDON CROWE RUSHES FOR TOUCHDOWN NEWS #95 (15:15:04:00), NEHRU OF INDIA MEETS WITH INDONESIA'S PREMIER NEHRU & PREMIER OF INDONESIA, EISENHOWER CAMPAIGNS IN WESTERN U.S. EISENHOWER AT THE HOLLYWOOD BOWL EISENHOWER APPEARS AT AFL CONVENTION EISENHOWER IN OPEN CAR EISENHOWER IN MONTANA, QUEEN JULIANA OPENS DUTCH PARLIMENT QUEEN JULIANA IN COACH QUEEN JULIANA ON THRONE, MCCARTHY COMMITTEE RECCOMENDS CENSURE COMITTEE REPORT IS CARRIED TO SENATE SENATOR WATKINS, ROMAN TEMPLE IS DUG UP IN LONDON RUINS OF ROMAN TEMPLE, CLOSED DOOR WINS U.N. 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Interview with Ahmed Akbar pt 1
Interview with Ahmed Akbar, chairman Islamic studies, American University. References to Islam and Christian and Jewish faiths.,INTERVIEWER:,For technical purposes could you say your name and spell it?,AHMED AKBAR,01:00:14:20>>>,A-K-B-A-R-A-H-M-E-D Akbar Ahmed I'm the chair of Islamic studies at American university.,INTERVIEWER:,What would you say is one of the greatest misconceptions that the west has about Islam and the Islamic world?,AHMED AKBAR,01:41:40:20>>>,There are many misconceptions about Islam and the Islam world. Number one that Islam is a religion of violence. Number two that Islam subjecticates (sp?) women. Number three that Islam is a religion that hates Jews and Christians. It's innate hostility to these religions in particular. That Islam is set on a course to create anarchy and disorder in the world. In fact all of these are answered in the Koran itself and in the example in he prophet of Islam INAUDIBLE Islamic history. ,INTERVIEWER:,Can you tell us a little about the history the golden age of Islam I'm thinking before the crusades before the part that we studied what was the golden age?,AHMED AKBAR,01:42:30:07>>>,The golden age of Islam is ah for me it's symbolized by the period in Spain what is called Islamic Spain. And it's the golden age because that in a sense really translates the best features of Islamic history Islamic theology if you'd like. You have Jews and Christians living together and creating which one of the richest civilizations in world history. So you have art, you have architecture you have INAUDIBLE free flow of ideas and above all you have a genuine intellectual synthesis taking place between these great world religions and that is an almost unique example of great civilizations INAUDIBLE together and that is Islamic civilization at its best.,INTERVIEWER:,Dr. Lewis has said that Islam inevitability would clash with Christianity because there are two universalistic concepts competing for the one true word. And so the clash between them is inevitable.,AHMED AKBAR,01:43:32:05>>>,Both ah professor Bernard Lewis who is a colleague of mine a distinguished colleague and friend from Princeton university INAUDIBLE is a Huntington a Harvard again I've been to Harvard. Both of them of course have tropicated(? sp) and come to embody what is called the clash of civilizations. I don't agree with this at all. On the contrary to what professor Bernard Lewis says that Islam and Christianity are inherently on a conflict path a path of confrontation. Now this is not correct because in fact Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all there INAUDIBLE. All three believe the essentially in the same god, essentially in the same structure that an indivisible INAUDIBLE god up there and we on earth here and a certain accountability out of this life so a kind of ledger while being on earth do good avoiding evil the basic ten commandments. And yet if you begin to think in terms of confrontation and a lot of the history between these civilizations is confrontation over history and we have the crusades, we have the era of the colonize colonization and the present phase of history in which there is a clash forming between Islam and the west. Then we may be tempted to go along with what professor Lewis is saying.,AHMED AKBAR,01:44:49:21>>>,But if you step back and look at the world through the lens of the Abrahamic INAUDIBLE then I think what is common between these three fates is much stronger, much more durable and permanent than what is dissimilar between these three fates.,INTERVIEWER:,Could you maybe elaborate on those, those elements those uniting elements?,AHMED AKBAR,01:45:11:19>>>,One of the great uniting elements in the three fields is Abraham himself the great prophet the great patriarch the great symbol of each faith in turn. Now what Jews and Christians who says prayers is supposed say prayers five times a day he or she prays to and blesses not only Abraham but also the descendants of Abraham. Now who are the descendants if not the Jews and indeed the Christians? And yet people are not aware of this. Abraham has two sons as we all know. For me as a Muslim from south Asia I don't see the sons in rivalry and some people interpret the rivalry between the Jews and the Muslims in the middle east as a kind of tribal conflict between descendants of these sons. I see both sons as sons who are highly revert highly respected in history. Sons of the great patriarch the great prophet Abraham. I see them as a unifying factor not as a divisive factor.,AHMED AKBAR,01:46:11:29>>>,So I really think that there's a great deal of ignorance about Islam and a great need to understand and study Islam. ,INTERVIEWER:,You are an observant Muslim?,AHMED AKBAR,01:46:21:28>>>,Yes I am an observant Muslim. I am an observant Muslim I am I have a south Asian background. I am not a convert my parents are not converts we go back centuries in terms of our Islam. I have the blood of the prophet in me so therefore we go back a long, long way.,INTERVIEWER:,I have a vague knowledge of we hear echoes of just after the prophet when Islam was credited with having originated some of the greatest in innovations, medicine, mathematics can you tell us just in a summary way for a lay person about that time period?,AHMED AKBAR,01:46:56:18>>>,I would say that the great days of Islam and there's a correlation here the great days of Islam are the great days of Islamic scholarship and Islamic tolerance. So when Islamic spans from the Arabian peninsula and really explodes into what is now the Middle East north Africa and the east towards India the subcontinent Islam attracts people because it's bringing a new way of life. It is bringing respect for knowledge, other people other tribes other cultures and above all it is encouraging the quest for knowledge. People don't know but in the Koran the holy book of the Muslims the word knowledge which is ilm in Arabic is used more often than any other word except the word for god. So god really is emphasizing knowledge, knowledge and knowledge. So there's a certain correlation and when Islam or Muslims begin to loose the respect for knowledge the respect for learning you being to see the downfall. And what professor Bernard Lewis and others like him talk about really in terms of the downfall of Islam he's really talking about the downfall in the last two or three centuries when Muslims began to loose the vitality and the respect for knowledge. ,AHMED AKBAR,01:18:10:11>>>,And if you again do a correlation and you look at the world today in the 21st century you look around you and you ask yourself where are the noble prize winners where are the great intellectual scholars and writers and scientists mathematicians and so on you could find them largely in the west even mostly in the United States of American. So here again you have a correlation you are not going to find them in the Muslim world. Yet in Spain a thousand years ago there were more books in Cordoba in Spain than the rest of Europe put together. Now that's a remarkable static. More books in one city in Muslim Spain than the rest of Europe put together. Today you may have this in reverse. You may have more books in the library at Princeton or Harvard compared to maybe a whole country in the Muslim world. So you are seeing a certain crisis within Islamic society in terms of itself in terms of what it needs to be doing. In terms of what Muslim society needs to be doing to rediscover it's own essential features.,INTERVIEWER:,So what happened what is that went downhill?,AHMED AKBAR,01:49:20:06>>>,I won't agree with the professor Bernard Lewis he said that Islam emerged and went up and then sort of went down INAUDIBLE simplistic linear view of um history. He is a historian and a very distinguished historian he has a point of view. Mine is more anthropological ah perspective of, of society which is that societies have their rhythms the rise and fall that societies beginning to come together under a certain kind of leadership under certain conditions social economic conditions. For instance when professor Lewis talks about the decline of Islam in the 19th century and he says that's it the Islamic history is over. To me in south Asia Islamic history is just beginning. This is where in the middle of the 19th century you have this ah movement such as INAUDIBLE you have universities you have intellectual books being produced, thesis being produced. You have the whole Pakistan movement lead by INAUDIBLE one of the most extraordinary figures of the 20th century. A man modern Muslims democratic person who believes in human rights, women's rights, minority rights there is a great deal of vitality in that part of the world. So I just don't see the downfall in fact on the contrary I see a complete renaissance taking place.,AHMED AKBAR,01:50:39:29>>>,And again over the last few decades in south Asia we see this rhythm as if we're going up and down once again we have a degeneration one part of south Asia reborn in another part. So I would see it more in terms of that cycle rather than this up and down pieces of history.,INTERVIEWER:,Is there anything that Muslims that some Muslims might be doing to contribute to the misinterpretation that people in the west have?,AHMED AKBAR,01:51:08:16>>>,I think Muslims are doing a lot to contribute to this negative image of Islam in the west and the world in general. And one of them is to project the idea that Islam is religion of violence. For instance poeple like Soma Bin Laden talk about violence as not only a means but the end itself. Soma Bin Laden clearly talks about he writes about we've seen this American television the enemy being the Jews and the Christians. I would like to ask him is that is correct then how are the Jews and the Christians in Koran in the holy book also addressed as people of the book as people who are kin. So for me again as a Muslim when I look at the tragedy of middle East and I look at the killings and the senseless violence in the Middle East and I look at a mother crying for her child I don't ask is she Jewish is Muslim. If she's Muslim maybe I should feel more sorrow for her. I just look at this and I see this as a great human tragedy. And I see this as a particularly great tragedy as a child of Abraham that two people belonging to the same family the abrahamic family are locked in this senseless cycle of violence.,AHMED AKBAR,01:52:18:27>>>,So I would say that Muslims themselves need to step back I would say Jews have to step back and really look at themselves in terms of, in terms of a common tradition this is the Abrahamic tradition.,INTERVIEWER:,How has this I would say miss misrepresentative Bin Ladenistic perspective has it affected the Palestinian Israeli conflict and if so how?,AHMED AKBAR,01:52:44:18>>>,The Palestinian Israeli conflict has a INAUDIBLE throughout the Muslim. It is important to understand this from Nigeria to Morocco to Indonesia central Asia wherever Muslims live there is a great deal of emotion attached to this particular problem for several reasons. First of all most Muslims are aware that the Jews have been part of the history of Islam that there've been large periods of Muslim history where Jews and Muslims have lived together as good neighbors. There've been centuries of this. Indeed when the Jews and Muslims explained from Muslim Spain from Iberia and when the Jews were asked where would you like to migrate to they said to a Muslim land. Now that is the bottom line that is a vote of confidence. It is the same time when they were being prosecuted in other parts of Europe. So people are aware of this. And then we have the history of the Middle East and in the last half century. ,AHMED AKBAR,01:53:41:27>>>,And we have to ask our self what is going on. The impact of that on the Muslim world is that they see the Palestinians in a hopeless situation where they're being killed where they are their houses are being blown up and there seems to be no solution. There seems to be a kind of despair. So I believe that that's a very important problem to be solved and both sides both the Jews and the Muslims have to resolve that issue because that is I would say poisoning the atmosphere in INAUDIBLE. Then of course you have the question of Jerusalem Jerusalem is a holy city not only for Jews not only for Christians but also for Muslims and that must be respected by anyone who's controlling Jerusalem.,AHMED AKBAR,01:54:24:03>>>,Historically whenever Muslims have taken Jerusalem as for instance in the time of INAUDIBLE the second INAUDIBLE for Islam or in the time of Salada(?) the great ah great Muslim ruler during the time of the crusades. One of the first acts that they passed was to allow Jews back to Jerusalem why because Jews were always considered people of the book. They were like kin they were part of the same family. So how could it be that they were not allowed to come back to their own place of worship. This will happen again and again in history. So I believe that there is a lot in our history in our common history which can inspire us to look at what's happening in the Middle East today which is such a tragic ah situation.,INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE this interpretation which we are exposed to of Hamas with a charter that speaks of Jews not as people of the book but such derogatory terms the end of days the rocks will cry out all this violent imagery and people INAUDIBLE,AHMED AKBAR,01:55:23:27>>>,The images of Islam which are projected particularly in the west are violent people are people with ah nothing but blood on their hands and blood on their minds. It is not correct at all. It is I would say a desperation and an interpretation of Islam that is really a translation of a certain desperation in a political situation. You must remember that it is not only Hamas it is not only the Islamic parties who interpret Islam there are other political leaders who have led Islamic movement led them very successfully and led them to triumph. Again I go back to the example of INAUDIBLE. Gena led in the 1930's what was probably the most important political movement of the 20th century because this was the one movement that resulted in the creation of an entire country which was then in 1947 the largest Muslim nation on earth Pakistan in 1947. And yet Gena led it within the constitution. He did not believe in killing people he did not believe in ordering suicide bombers, he did not believe in even challenging the law so he never ever went to jail. And in fact his critics would tell him this they would remind him they would say Handy Mahatma Ghandi your political rival has been to jail sir why don't you go to jail. And he would say my part is different I will fight for Pakistan but I will fight for Pakistan within the law. ,AHMED AKBAR,01:56:53:02>>>,So you have example like Gena in the Muslim world. And what we have to see really for, for Muslims and the great challenge Muslims face is how are we able to revive the traditional of leaders like Gena. Because if leaders like Gena are not going to lead the Muslim world in the 21st century then not only the Muslim world is in trouble but the rest of the world is in trouble because you're dealing with a population that is 1.3 billion and growing. You're dealing with a civilization that is 56, 57 nations in the world and one of them nuclear for the time being. So what you have is a situation where you have a volatile mass of people and a lot will depend on who leads them. And who's leading them at the moment are people who are desperate. They're caught up in a desperate situation so their responses are desperate. They're not responding with any measured sense of values or compassion because all around them they're seeing death and destruction. And therefore they're responding as people who are absolutely with their backs against the wall.,AHMED AKBAR,01:57:59:12>>>,I therefore go back again and again to the examples of Islam and what Islam teaches. The prophet of Islam if you go back to the 7th century and for Muslims that is the model of Islam that is ultimately supreme that trumps everything else. You go back to the example of the prophet who again and again and again introduce the notion of compassion, compassion and compassion. Whatever the provocation in fact the notion of jihad can only be applied in self defense. And the notion of jihad is only to be defined the greater jihad in terms of elevating your own individual self or soul or spiritual being INAUDIBLE. It isn't to be translated in terms of military interaction. So some of these debates or these definitions need to be brought up not only for the west but also for Muslims. ,INTERVIEWER:,How has religion INAUDIBLE also of dialogue?,AHMED AKBAR,01:58:59:17>>>,Religion has in the 21st century become an instrument of confrontation and violence. We're seeing too much conflict and we're seeing too much confrontation based on religion. A loose translation in the Balkans you have christens nailing Muslims and ah on crosses and using that as a pretext to explain hatred of the Islamic faith. You have Jews and Muslims fighting in the Middle East you have Hindus and Muslims fighting in south Asia. Sorry. So you have a confrontation taking place which on one level seems to be religious. At the same time religion provides us a very important source of dialogue. I've been involved in dialogue with some very eminent people of the Abrahamic faith. Was showing that as opposed to conflict or the confrontation or the clash of civilizations you also have healthy dialogue possible and taking place. A year back late in 2002 rabbi Rustic of the Washington Hebrew congregation organized and launched what he called the first Abraham summit. Now he invited the bishop bishop John Chin with the national cathedral here in Washington. He invited me. He invited Bruce Lustic the author or Abraham ah best selling book written on the prophet Abraham. And he launched the first Abraham summit which in turn and in time became a very popular movement almost so that in June when we had a similar panel ah the Abrahamic panel at the national press club in Washington DC this time because early on people were very skeptical about this and where this was going this time at the national press club a completely sold out event standing room only and a lot of people turned out.,AHMED AKBAR,02:00:54:03>>>,We would really like to see much more of this taking place. We would like to see this happening in public. We would like to see this very visible and we have so much in common. We have so much in common. Now for me this becomes a very critical echo of the Abrahamic refrain that there is a great deal that is different between these faiths. Even within the faiths there's so much that is different. And yet in essence there is so much that is common. ,INTERVIEWER:,If you could from the perspective of someone who has seen both different approaches if you address both peoples in the Palestine Israel conflict ah looking back on history tell them what wrong turns they made and what right turns they should have made.,AHMED AKBAR,02:01:42:02>>>,I think that both the Israelis and the Palestinians made a great number of mistakes INAUDIBLE Israel back to 1948. I think that the assumptions of the Israelis in the early days were very different from what they are now. The assumptions of the Palestinians were very different then 50 years ago as they are now. Both in a sense were two different peoples two different civilizations looking at each other with incomprehension. The Israelis were arriving largely from Europe with very European ideas with very European standards the European way of looking at the world. And what they were seeing were religious they were seeing backward religious poor people and they're treated by the sinners with a great deal of contempt. So there was really no attempt and even understanding the local people there and that set the tone over the next few decades. So you're really seeing two different people talking passed each other.,AHMED AKBAR,02:02:41:05>>>,As for the Palestinians they were looking at the Israelis as complete foreigners as strangers as invaders and occupiers and therefore not even prepared to conceive that essentially these were kin. That essentially these were people of the Abrahamic faiths and that essentially they had a right to the land because they had been there many of the Jews had been living there before the creation of Israel and that the links were very strong they were theological the arguments on behave of Israel and the Jewish community are very strong arguments. So had the Palestinians and the Arabs responded with more generosity, with more understanding rather than launching wars you would then again have some hope of accommodation. Earlier on if there had been that kind of accommodation you may well have seen two states two different states immerging two neighbors different neighbors but possibly living together with some understanding maybe even some harmony.,AHMED AKBAR,02:03:41:13>>>,But the way the um the structure was created right from the start you had total hostility. So it became a zero sum situation. Israel had to be wiped off the face of the earth it had to be wiped off the map as far as the Arabs were concerned and the Arabs had to be removed and their villages blown up and the had to be expelled as far as Israelis were concerned. Complete zero sum situation. And therefore I think that the problem really began with some of the founding fathers in 1948. You needed more compassion. You need more understanding and of course what you had in effect was almost a military confrontation. And we are seeing echoes of that today. I go back to my early example had you had a Gena leading the Palestinian people prepared to fight within the constitution you may have had a very different Palestinian response to Israel. You may have had a more constitutional response. ,AHMED AKBAR,02:04:36:08>>>,And had you had a similar response from Israel you may have had a very different response from the Palestinian, Palestinians. If the Israelis had been more generous if they had been more understanding if they had seen the Palestinians as it were people who were living there and needed to be respected and more understanding for their plight I think you may have had a very different kind of relationship. ,INTERVIEWER:,What is your assessment of say the partition the United Nations revolution in 1947? That should have solved the whole thing I'm assuming.,AHMED AKBAR,02:05:08:20>>> ,Yes that's why I say a half century ago things could have been very different things could have been worked out very differently but that did not happen because again there are 2 or 3 people looking at not only politics in a very different but looking at history in a very different way. And so we are back to in a sense understanding of history and we really are back to those people who are interpreting history. People who are interpreting how history is to be seen. And you had also go back half a century you had also the Arab world in the grip of what we now look back and see as Arab nationalism. You had the emergence of someone like INAUDIBLE. So you had the um charisma of a man like Nasa (sp?) who could unite millions and millions of Arabs and what united them was Israel. So the hatred of Israel became part of an Arab nationalist deception of the world. ,AHMED AKBAR,02:06:02:25>>>,And you can never have something healthy being created from something that really at the root is linked to hatred. And therefore you had something that was not quite whole and balanced. It did not have an element of understanding or compassion. So on both sides from the Arab side you had this hatred for Israel what was the determination to remove it from the map and then you had from the Israel side the determination and the feeling that we are under siege that here is this tiny state surrounded by hundreds of millions of Arabs determined to remove it from the map. So again comparison and understanding which could have developed did not develop. And that is why almost 2 or 3 generations after the creation of Israel you being to see now the first steps being taken towards understanding and because of these steps people are now asking themselves what is it that is common between us. And because of that you have certain rabbis very distinguished rabbis, you have Muslim leaders among the Palestinians who are now finding out what is common between them. Finding a really moving towards a kind of common identity. And I think that's a very hopeful sign.,INTERVIEWER:,Many of us believed watching the news the past few years that this, this renewal INAUDIBLE was just about to reach its apex 2 ½ years ago when all of a sudden everything went got worse out of control.,AHMED AKBAR,02:07:34:06>>>,I think what how we need to understand what happens in Israel and particularly in relationship to the Arabs and the Palestinians it's not to see it in an isolated context but to see it in the context of what happens in the larger Middle East as a whole. So what happens in Iraq will have an impact on Israel and Palestinian. What happens in Egypt will have an impact and that is why I emphasis that it is much more important to begin to develop what is common between these cultures and civilizations. Between Jewish identity and Jewish religion Jewish culture and Muslim identity and Muslim culture and Muslim history. And if we can begin to develop what is common strength what is common then these political waves these political shock affects for instance if there's a coo in one country or if there's a turmoil in another country these will be minimized but if that doesn't happen then whatever happened in one county is immediately going to have an impact on another country. ,AHMED AKBAR,02:08:37:21>>>,And we have the classic example of Iraq in front of us where every time Saddam Hussein was under pressure from the world he immediately began to think about the Palestinians. So the poor Palestinians who themself are facing such a terrible situation and such a terrible ah dilemma and such a terrible plight are in a sense being used and exploited and misused by a lot of people outside that area so that they become a kind of ah um an excuse for people to use their own politics and to for people to entrench themselves in their own particular areas and their own countries.,INTERVIEWER:,As I understand you it requires a cultural people INAUDIBLE the solution first before a political is that sort of what you're? ,AHMED AKBAR,02:09:44:29>>>,What?,INTERVIEWER:,That, that before a global solution can work we need to have a cultural?,AHMED AKBAR,02:09:50:08>>>,Yes I would say that you require some de-escalation of the hatred and the violence. I would say that you require some beginning of understanding between the Jews and Muslims before you can have some kind of mutual respect or mutual understanding of each other. When that happens you then beginning to see political problems in a far greater perspective and you are able to do one thing which has been noticeably missing in the relationship between the Jews and the Muslims in the Middle East and that is compassion. It only when you being to look at each other and say I'm dealing with a human beings they're also like me they're human beings and if you're able to say the Israelis to say to the Palestinians these are basically, basically part of this Abrahamic tradition that we talk about. And vice versa for Palestinians to look at the Jews and say look we are dehumanizing the Jews but in fact they are basically part of the same structure.,AHMED AKBAR,02:10:48:09>>>,When I dehumanize Abraham or I dehumanize Moses I'm dehumanizing my own prophets. Moses, Abraham these are all prophets of Islam as much as they're prophets of the Jews. And there the Israelis have so much in common but unless this message is brought out through the media, through the schools, through education unless this is done then what you would have are the stories of hatred, the stories of violence which you see again and again on television. So that what you're really seeing is that the agenda is being set by the news on television where a child killed or a woman killed or a young man killed then completely upsets any attempt to dialogue. Completely negates the idea that there is something in common between these people and that they have to learn to live together in compassion.,INTERVIEWER:,Now one of the things you mentioned INAUDIBLE. You were comparing the proper modern leader to INAUDIBLE ,AHMED AKBAR,02:12:13:16>>>,When I look at the Middle East and I say we have a problem when you talk of democracy and the Muslim world you look around the Middle East and you see largely INAUDIBLE dictators or kings or dynasties. Even the Palestinian people who are led by Arafat and many of the INAUDIBLE who are in their own way revolutionaries in the 1950's and the 60's or fighting very difficult wars and trying to penetrate into Israel and they have this objective that Israel must be wiped out and moved from the face and so on. You look at them 30 years on 2 or 3 decades later and they've gone nowhere. There is no Palestinian state and Israel is very much there. There's no danger of disappearing from the face of the earth. And then we compare the achievement of someone like Gena who starts at exactly the same position at the same spot as Arafat which is zero and takes on the British empire and the Indian national congress which would go on and become the rulers of India in 1947 and is actually able to create the largest Muslim nation on earth in 1947 which is Pakistan. How do you do it? He did this because he worked within the constitution.,AHMED AKBAR,02:13:29:02>>>,He worked and was respected in turn both by the British and the India congress. So it's a very interesting what if question. What if there was a man not like Arafat? What if there was a man like Gena leading the Palestinian movement. What if there was man with that same kind of charisma as Gena and the same temperament and the same respect for the constituting and prepared to then lead this movement perhaps, perhaps there would have been a Palestinian state, perhaps there would have been two states living side by side, living in harmony, living with good relations with each other. Perhaps that would have happened. But this is one of the great what if questions and it goes back to the politics, the culture and society in the Middle East. ,INTERVIEWER:,So what is your evaluation of Arafat then as a leader?,AHMED AKBAR,02:14:18:25>>>,I would say that Arafat in a sense really is a leader up till the 1960's and 70's. That he really is now out of his time out of place ah and that at the end of his career we have seen that he's really got the Palestinian nowhere very much. He's got them right now in a INAUDIBLE that in fact you move ahead in a sense Arafat has to be moved out or above or bypassed because if that doesn't happen the Palestinian people ultimately and that has to be the bottom line for any leader the Palestinian people continue to suffer because who is being blockaded, who is denied access to jobs, whose homes are being blown up, whose young men are being INAUDIBLE up it is the Palestinians. And the reason of course it goes back to leadership. So unless a leaders can provide some kind of relief to its people you have a problem. And therefore you have a problem the Palestinians that Arafat has become the symbol of the Palestinian people and he has his own place in history because at one state he was a symbol the very symbol INAUDIBLE Palestinian identity if you like. Arafat today has become largely marginal, largely irreverent and largely a man who really has no answers for the 21st century.,AHMED AKBAR,02:15:30:06>>>,There you have a man who is symbolic of what is happening in the 1960's. You're now talking almost half a century ago. And we're talking of the 21st century. New times and new generations and new rhetoric and new leadership is needed. And that is what has to come. ,INTERVIEWER:,What about Abu Mazen the new Palestinian leader?,AHMED AKBAR,02:15:51:22>>>,The new Palestinian leader Abu Mazen seems to offer hope in the sense that he's ah what little one knows of him or sees of him ah a man with some dignity, a man who is at the same time not a walk away is not an easy person to negotiate with obviously. Ariel Sharon have had their differences and Mazen has stuck up for his demands and so on. We have to see because at this moment in time there is a crisis in leadership and that is a very important point I'm making because when a people like a Palestinian are not able to produce a series of leaders and they have been dominated by one leader like Arafat has for the last 40 years it will be a long time before new leadership immerges. And that becomes a great I think a great tragedy of a leader. A nationalist leader a founding father like Arafat who does not allow a young generation of leadership to immerge. And that's a very interesting um relationship that a lot of founding fathers have with the younger generation. Sometimes they simply don't allow younger people to grow. Ah it's it's um the example of the oak tree that the oak tree doesn't allow smaller trees to grow underneath it and wants to dominate that location.
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Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 18:49 In terms of the teachers who aren't performing successfully, I said, give them a lot of support, a lot of help. And when you judge a system after they've had a lot of support and a lot of help, all things being equal. If they aren't performing, then they can't be in the classrooms in New York City. I don't think that that's really a radical statement myself. And I think the teachers union, those interested in the profession, the quality of life in our schools would agree that inappropriate people should not be around children. Robert Lipsyte 19:16 And yet you have criticized so so quickly, for not making a snap decision when Barnwell the principal involved in drugs. It was first reported. You said I have sympathy for him. You didn't just throw them out of the school? Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 19:30 That's correct. I don't believe that, simply because Mr. Barnwell was a person who really had the label educator, that somehow he was to be judged differently in in the in the justice system, he was charged. He's in court right now. That process is applicable to every American citizen. If you were listening to the arguments, what is it specifically that they wanted me to do with Mr. Barnwell? Robert Lipsyte 19:54 They wanted you to make some sort of immediate gesture when Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 19:58 gestures are not what you do to your employees, you don't treat employees with gestures, you provide them with the same kind of constitutional protections that all other citizens are provided with including due process is they would be in court. In terms of his sickness, if he was involved with drugs and crack, he ought to be treated simply like every other individual. He could not be around children. He was suspended from his school, he was removed from his school. And I was hoping that as one human being to another, that he would get the treatment to try to restore his life. I think it's the same thing he provided for recently a television commentator and one of the major news organizations who I have a lot of respect for. And I didn't see how those individuals Robert Lipsyte 20:36 Who is not dealing with children on a day to day basis. Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 20:38 Right, and Mr. Barnwell has not either that's why he was removed immediately. But people seem to confuse those things. And the question in this society, because drugs are such an important part of whether we're going to be successful, is how are we treat those who need help? Well, we simply isolate them to some island, ignore them. We've had a series of people in the educational community now that had been arrested for allegedly purchasing drugs. They're away from children. Now. We hope that they're getting assistance. They won't be back around children, including Mr. Barnwell, unless there's evidence that supports that that ought to happen. If they violate the contract of the system is highly likely they won't be back in the system, because the contract provides for other alternatives for people that are that are convicted of drug possession. For those that said, we want some symbols, I'm not in the business of providing people in terms of symbolic gestures just to meet to the public hue and cry about an issue. Robert Lipsyte 21:34 Yeah. Well, New York is a city of hype. And with all due respect, Richard Green has been a bit of a Mr. Beige. I mean, you haven't gone out to the rooftop screaming and yelling as a lot of, you know, political people would be I mean, you've got something to say. And you said it in classrooms. You said it to small groups you said it to parents, but you haven't said it, you know, to the throng Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 22:00 That isn't true. And whether it's been heard. I've had major presentations in the 14 months that I've been here, and the throngs everywhere from the Abney breakfast with the standing room only. That isn't true that I haven't had that message. It's true. And I don'e believe... Robert Lipsyte 22:15 Well you might be giving the message, but you haven't been getting the kind of distribution. Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 22:20 Well, that's that's a different kind of question. It is true. I don't spend my time on the on the on house tops shouting, because I found in examining New York over the last 20 years, that hasn't been a productive experience in improving the quality of life for the city. And I think it's a great city with much hope. And I'm very honored to be the Chancellor of the New York schools. Robert Lipsyte 22:39 Yeah. Well, but I mean, you came in your your inaugural has been described as a coronation.Yeah, you scripted it. Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 22:49 I said, No, it was not my discription Robert Lipsyte 22:51 You didn't script it. It was a magnificent coming. And as certainly your vision, your reformist vision is a very exciting and very important vision. Richard Green Chancellor NY Public Schools 23:05 Do you know that if we don't educate this generation of students, there won't be a New York City? Do you know that formerly, America was able to look to other parts of the world to help it with its labor force with its citizenship, it note those places no longer have the huge numbers of immigrant population are in new immigrant population will come from the Caribbean. There'll be a Haitian Creole and Latino in South America, Southeast Asia, Asia, if we don't get a handle on the management and development and valuing of life in America, by this group of students in our schools today that we won't have a future. It is something we should be very serious about. And my commitment to you about not being involved with the hype is a seriousness that if we fail with this group, we won't have a future.
2/13/73 C0041320 - COLOR N / YC DICK WILLIAMS WHO MANAGED THE OAKLAND ATHLETICS TO THE WORLD SERIES SIGNED UP THE NEW MANAGER FOR THE NEW YORK YANKEES TODAY.
2/13/73 C0041320 - COLOR N / YC DICK WILLIAMS WHO MANAGED THE OAKLAND ATHLETICS TO THE WORLD SERIES SIGNED UP THE NEW MANAGER FOR THE NEW YORK YANKEES TODAY. F CUT STORY: "WILLIAMS" SHOWS: WILLIAMS SOF: RAMSEY CU: WILLIAMS - SOF: (SHOT 12/13/73 49FT) NEW YORK YANKEES BB TEAM BASEBALL - 1973 WILLIAMS, DICK XX / 49 FT / 16 MM / COLOR / ORIG / MAG TRK 160 FT / 16 MM / COLOR / ORIG / CUTS
Interview with Dr. Bernard Lewis pt 2
00:00:38>>> DR. LEWIS:,Yes, I think one has to try and remember the context of 1948. The Partition of Palestine followed not very long after the Partition of India, in the previous year; a similar operation, but on a vastly greater scale. And two years earlier, there was the reshaping of Central and Eastern Europe. You may recall, when Poland was, so to speak, forcibly moved westwards, Eastern Poland was annexed by the Soviets, and Eastern German was annexed by Poland, which sent many millions of Pols and Germans fleeing their homes, or driven from their homes. As in the other cases, one is never quite sure when they fled and when they were driven. But many millions of Germans abandoned or were driven from Eastern - the Eastern German territories, next to Poland, and many millions of Pols, from the eastern territories, and next to the Soviet Union, they were more resettled. ,00:01:38>>>,And the same thing happened in 1947, with the Partition of India. And again, the usual uncertainty; who fled, who was driven, and a combination of the two. Again, they were all resettled. A remarkable thing about the Partition of Palestine, in 1948, is that when I asked the Jews who fled over, or were driven from Arab countries, and went to Israel, they were all resettled. And the Palestinians were the exception. And those who were given Jordanian citizenship were not resettled, they were kept in camps. And the really extraordinary thing is that they remained stateless aliens from the fourth generation. A Palestine refugee, in 48', he went to England, or France, or America, was eligible for naturalization in five years. And his children born there, were citizens by birth. And he went to Syria, or Lebanon, or Egypt, his children, his great grandchildren, remained stateless aliens. And it was a rather remarkable paradox. 00:02:40>>> Why did they go? Well, as I said, the usual mixture, in some areas, they were undoubtedly driven in the -_____ area, for example, a strategic highway from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. On the other hand, we do have the testimony of ______, who was the Syrian Prime Minister, at the time. In his memoirs, he lists the mistakes which the Arab states made, in 48', which led to their failure. And one of them, he lists is our foolishness in calling upon the Palestinian Arabs to leave and go elsewhere, and thus making it easy for the enemy. INTERVIEWER: If the existence of these refugees is not so much an actual grievance, but a deliberately constructed one, what, on the basis of - DR. LEWIS: [OVERLAP] Well, they're not mutually exclusive. I mean it can be a deliberately constructed grievance, but nevertheless genuine. INTERVIEWER: Well, having become both genuine, nevertheless, what other grievance, what other grievance in this nation State of Israel, would encourage countries to want to not resettle in such a grievance ____. What's the real issue? 00:03:51>>> DR. LEWIS: The basic issue is in the point of view of the, of those who hold this news, is that Israel has no right to exist. You see, it should have equality between states, over territory, over frontiers. That is comparatively simple, like Alsace Lorraine and ______, after a long period of struggle, eventually, they reached some sort of compromise. You can compromise over frontiers. You can compromise over populations. You can't compromise over existence. I mean, if the basic issue is whether Israel has the right to exist, then obviously there can be nothing but a struggle to the death. There's no intermediate status between existing and not existing. And obviously it isn't even a subject which can be discussed. No government of any complexion is going to discuss its own existence, as a topic for negotiations. If one looks at the, at the discourse on the Arab's side, one finds both. Among some we find an acceptance, however willing, on Israel's existence, and a concentration on such practical issues as frontiers and populations. On the other hand, there is also, very clearly, particularly among the religious radicals, a total rejection of Israel's right to exist. Now, if you believe that Israel has no right to exist, that its very existence is an aggression, then obviously, any Israeli action is aggressive. INTERVIEWER: The British were in a unique position, going back now to (Inaudible) hostile things, and were allowed immigration, (Inaudible). Perhaps they could have done something better, differently. Perhaps they made some failures? 00:05:43>>> DR. LEWIS: Certainly, but normally the British government made a number of offers. And, going back to 1936, there was the Peele [PH] Plan, which would have offered a Palestinian state in a significant part of Palestine, and this was rejected by the Palestinian leadership. Then came another offer, during the war, which was again rejected. Then the United Nations Partition Plan, of 1947, which was again rejected. I mean, time and time again, there have been compromises proposed which would have required the Palestinian Arabs to accept the existence of Israel, of a Jewish State. It wasn't yet called Israel, at that stage, to accept the existence of a Jewish State in part of Palestine. But they steadfastly refused. 00:06:42>>> And instead, [COUGHS], instead sought - [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] Time and again they refused, and suggested compromises, and instead carried on the fight against the British, as long as they were there, against the Jews, and against anyone seen as their patrons or protectors. And in order to do this, of course, they sought support, elsewhere, of a general principal who would be the enemy of my enemy, as my friend. The Mufti [PH] - the famous Mufti Haj Amin [PH] got in touch with a general council - general - in Jerusalem, within weeks of them coming to power, suggesting an alliance. The Germans hesitated for several years before they agreed to go along with this, and because they were still hoping to do a deal with Britain. But eventually they agreed, and the Mufti and his men were loyal supporters of the Nazis, right through to the end. Then there was a hiatus, when there was no enemy of my enemy. And then the Soviets emerged and gradually took over that role. So there was a long period of reliance on Soviet support. And then came a third collapse. Now only two reactions, since then; one of them was a frantic attempt to find a substitute. An attempt to find someone to play the role that was played, first, by the Nazis, and then by the Soviets, to find an anti-western power. The only candidate that they've been able to find, so far, is the European union. There are forces in the European Union, who seem to be willing to accept this role. But fortunately, even if they have the will, they lack the power. And the - other reaction is to say, we don't need any support, we destroyed the Soviet Union, we will destroy the United States. We took over, we will take over, and we will establish the power of Islam, once again, as it was in the ancient and glorious days. INTERVIEWER: As an American hearing all this, after September 11th, (Inaudible) now that you're concerned _____. If the problem, the very existence of the United States as a chief world power, is there anything short of just not being that, for it to possibly (Inaudible)? 00:09:04>>> DR. LEWIS: Well, again, it must come - a question of what - [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] Well, the question is what does one do about it? Now, immediately, after 9/11, there was a very American reaction, what did we do wrong? What did we do to offend them? And that is endearing, but unrealistic. What really offended them was wealth and strength. It is very difficult to be rich, strong, and successful, and be loved by people who are none of those things. And I don't think there is any solution to be found along those lines. What I think is much more practical, it is to bear in mind that we are dealing with a whole world of Islam - an entire civilization - a billion and a third people, more than fifty sovereign states, and an enormously wide range of different traditions. We happened to be confronting a particularly nasty one, at the present time, the Wajabi version of Islam. Which is, as I suggested before, is about as typical of Islam as Ku Klux Klan is typical of Christianity. (Inaudible) give them a holy, spurious importance and relevance, because of the combination of Saudi power, and oil money. And with them, obviously, there can be no compromise, there can be no understanding, and therefore no peace. And the only thing one can do with terrorists, and those who inspire them, is fight against them, to the best of our ability. But it would be a grave error to assume that is what Islam is about, and that is Islam. No, one has to avoid going into either of the opposite arrows. 00:10:40>>> Since 9/11, a great deal has been read - a great deal has been written and broadcast about Islam, an awful lot of nonsense, not all of it by Muslims. And we get two extreme formulations. According to one, Islam is a religion of blood thirsty barbarians, who dream of nothing but slaughter and rapine. According to the other, Islam is a religion of love and peace, rather like the Quakers, but without their aggressiveness. The truth is in its usual place, somewhere between the two. And I think we need to be more realistic in our encounters of Islam. INTERVIEWER: A similar question then, what can, for example, Israel do, in its own recent confrontation, with a more radical ____, this _____ Martyrs Brigade, or Hamas? 00:11:34>>> DR. LEWIS: Obviously, in dealing with those, whose aim it is to destroy Israel, there is nothing that Israel can do but defend itself, as effectively as it can. But I think Israel can, and should do more. Do an open dialogue with Palestinians and other Arabs and Muslims, who are not committed to that particular interpretation of history. They do exist, it is possible to talk to them. And - here I may mention a point which may seem trivial, but I don't think it is. That is a, how shall I put it, well let's be frank, normal Israeli pattern of discourtesy. Not just to them, but to everybody, to each other. After the peace treaty was signed with Jordan, the Jordanians had high expectations; flow of tourists, business, dealings and so on. When I went there a couple of times, I found people very disappointed and very angry. And they said, the Israelis came here, and they behaved with the arrogance of conquerors. And I asked, specifically, what they meant, and they gave me some examples. And I said, you're quite mistaken, it is not the arrogance of conquerors, that's just normal Israeli behavior. That's how they behave to each other, all the time. I had difficulty convincing them. And this may seem a trivial thing, but I don't think it is. If you have to stop someone at a checkpoint, for _____ security reasons, there is no need to humiliate him. INTERVIEWER: Is there, is there an example of a kind of moderate leader? A leader within the Arab world who exemplifies the other option you're talking about, and how would you contrast him? DR. LEWIS: Yes, they do exist. I have spoken to them - [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] But I'm not gonna - sorry - Moderate leaders do exist, moderate leaders who are willing to talk peace and compromise. I have met some of them. I am not going to endanger their lives by naming them. INTERVIEWER: Are any of the ones that we deal with, and see in the news every day, do they fit that description? People like Yasser Arafat or, I don't know 00:13:37>>> DR. LEWIS: I don't think Arafat fits that description. If one looks at the processes of the last ten years, one feels that - what happened, why did the peace process break down from time to time? It broke down when there was a real danger that peace might break out. And, in asking Arafat to give up terrorism, is like asking Tiger Woods to give up golf. I mean, this is what brought him fame and fortune. This is what made him a world figure. And just consider it, in his perspective, as things are, he's a world statesmen, a world figure - a figure on the world stage. People come to visit him from Europe, from elsewhere, and he commands the headlines and the television screens any time he wants them. If there is peace, he becomes the tin pot dictator of a mini state, a battler of a corrupt mini state in which he has to answer to his people, for all the many things that go wrong. I don't think choice is very difficult for him. INTERVIEWER: Can you imagine a rise of - a different kind of - I asked you this before, but just to clarify, a different strain within the Islamic world, that goes back to the time where Jihad didn't mean violent holy war, and (Inaudible)? 00:14:59>>> DR. LEWIS: There are many traditions with an Islam name. And, as I said, Islam shows great diversity. Indeed, Islam explicitly savors diversity. There is a saying attributed to the prophet, which says that 'diversity is god's blessing'. There are many different traditions. It is not for us that is to say for the outside world, to pick and choose traditions of Muslims. That is a charge they have to make themselves. But I think we should recognize them and be ready to talk to them when the time comes. INTERVIEWER: A little clarification-is the September 11th attack a unique instance of radical Wajabi terrorism, or is it really just a larger example of what happens with Hamas, or with _____, in certain situations? DR. LEWIS: Well it's, it's unique, only in the scale, not in other respects. INTERVIEWER: [OVERLAP] (Inaudible) DR. LEWIS: What? What happened on September -. INTERVIEWER: 11th. DR. LEWIS: What? INTERVIEWER: Sorry. 00:16:00>>> DR. LEWIS: What happened on September 11th was not new and not unique. There have been a number of other attacks in various places, in which we see the same total indifference. Take, for example, the attacks on the Embassy's in East Africa. In order to kill a dozen American diplomats, they were willing to slaughter a couple of hundred Africans who just happened to be there, who had absolutely nothing to do with it, but many of whom were Muslims. I mean, this kind of total indifference to human life, is characteristic of that distinctive approach which is characteristic of that approach, but not of Islam, as such. On the contrary, if you look at the, the literature on the holy law, which is very extensive, it does devote a lot of attention to holy war. But it is a law of war, it deals with such things as treatment of prisoners, treatment of non-competence, and so on and so forth. It gives no countenance at all to indiscriminate slaughter. INTERVIEWER: Describe the role of democracy, as a system and how that might interact with society, to effect the tone of its - even of its religious ____? 00:17:12>>> DR. LEWIS: Well, people talk a lot now about democracy, and about exporting democracy, and so on. And in the western world, particularly in the United States, there is a common belief that democracy is the natural and normal condition of humanity. If there's any deviation from it, it is either a disease to be cured or a crime to be punished. I don't share that belief. What we call democracy, is the parochial habits of the English speaking peoples, or the combat with their public affairs. It has a very short and checkered history, even on the continent of Europe. [BACKGROUND NOISE] And the expectation, that Westminster style, or Jefferson style democracy, could be transplanted elsewhere, and set up, and function, is a delusion. 00:18:02>>> That doesn't mean to say that they cannot set up civilized, responsible, representative government. It can be done. We have - it's difficult to be introduced from outside, but we have two examples where just this happened. You know, take, for example, the cases of Germany and Japan, where democracy was introduced by victorious enemies, and it has worked pretty well. Or take the case in India, where democracy was bequeathed by departing imperialists. And more than half a century later, in spite of its innumerable problems, India is still a vibrant, functioning democracy. And democracy has never been interrupted in India. So these things are possible. They are difficult, but they are possible. ,And I think that there are Arab traditions of government, which could, could end the development of democratic institutions. And here, I think the one with the best prospect is Iraq, oddly enough. For one thing, the Iraqis have had the ultimate experience, on non-democratic government. A thug-like dictatorship, this apparently, is also an importation from Europe. This kind of party - the party dictatorship, and has its roots in Rome, Berlin, and Moscow. And the Bath party, is modeled under fascist, Nazi and communist parties, in its role in the state and society, and it's a matter of functioning. 00:19:36>>> So, don't imagine that, that represents the true Arab, or true Islamic form of government. They know that very well, and they reject it, utterly. I think Iraqi is also promising, in that - of all the oil countries, Iraqis probably made the best use of their oil revenues. They used it to set up an infrastructure, and a pretty good educational system. And primary, secondary and university. Now, it's being devastated by Saddam Hussein. But when you have an educated middle class, they were somehow- could try to educate their children, even if the public schools had gone to pot. INTERVIEWER: You have a new book coming out, (Inaudible). DR. LEWIS: Yes, I have a new book coming out in April. INTERVIEWER: It will have come out when this is aired. DR. LEWIS: My new book, appearing in April - oh no, let's - how shall we put that. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] My new book is, is called Holy War - sorry - My new book is called - I forget, what is it called? [LAUGHTER] My new book is called is The Crisis in Islam, and its content is, I think indicated by the subtitle, Holy War & Unholy Terror. Which I try to discuss and explain these issues. And to put current events within a cultural and historical context. [END OF INTERVIEW] INTERVIEWER: Yesterday we interviewed a cleric, who said that - [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] I spoke to you about Mustafabu Sway, earlier. DR. LEWIS: Mmm. INTERVIEWER: He said that, there cannot be - according to Islam, Islam, there cannot be a Jewish State on Islamic land. There can be Jews who enjoy the holiness of the land, and share (Inaudible) Jewish sovereignty (Inaudible). [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] 00:22:49>>> DR. LEWIS: Yes, that is so. But it's not only that, it applies to any land. And, according to Islamic teachings, any land which has once been part of Islam, must remain so. And if, for any reason, he falls into infidel hands, it must be recovered for Islam. So this doesn't only apply to the Jewish State, in Palestine, it applies to Spain and Portugal, and Sicily, and any other country which once spawned part of the House of Islam. At one time, I had occasion to work on some Moroccan Embassy reports to Spain. And as late as the 18th Century, perhaps later, but I didn't look later, as late as the 18th Century, whenever they referred to a place in Spain, they had, May God speedily restore to Islam. INTERVIEWER: As you mentioned before, there are diverse viewpoints. DR. LEWIS: Yes, for the general viewers, that if a place has once been Islamic, it must become so again. INTERVIEWER: How will events - how will the aftermath of an Iraqi war, the next Gulf War, or perhaps the past Gulf War, affect regional developments, larger regional developments? Will it only - will it bring peace to the Middle East? Will (Inaudible)? 00:24:00>>> DR. LEWIS: Well obviously there are several possibilities. Let me take the best case. The best case is that they will succeed in setting up, I won't say a democratic government, but a civilized, tolerant, humane, open form of government in Iraq, which could develop into a democratic government. You can't create democracies overnight, it just doesn't work that way. If that happens, and I think that is a real possibility, I think the same would happen fairly soon, afterwards, in Iran. [CLEARS THROAT] Where, again, the people are more than fed up with the sort of clerical tyranny under which they live, and would be very happy to have an open, democratic society. And if those two examples work well, and I think there is every reason why they should work well, one might well see the spread of democratic ideas. 00:24:52>>> And you know, when people talk about setting up a democratic regime in Iraq, there are two fears that are expressed. One is the fear that it wouldn't work. That it would result in chaos, tyranny, break up, and so on. The other, which is much more relevant, is the fear that it would work. And that would be a serious threat to all the other regimes in the regions. I mean, a functioning democracy in Iraq, would be a mortal danger to that collection of dictators and autocrats that we call our allies. INTERVIEWER: In terms of - there is a certain view exemplified by people at think tanks, former policy makers, (Inaudible) and _____, who felt that Israel and Palestine has a symbol. If we can just solve the issues there, that, that are symbolic of what the grievance is. For example, divide Jerusalem equitably, and free Israeli settlement activities, that could show the kind of good will that would calm anger, Islamic anger. 00:25:58>>> DR. LEWIS: The very problem about this is making concessions that are obviously necessary in any peace process. But it has to be done in a context of peace process. Otherwise, making concessions is a sign of weakness, and will trigger a demand for more. And the context has to be right. And personally, I don't think that there can be, be seen on the Palestine issue, ahead of the others. People say, we must make peace in Palestine before we do anything about Iraq. Well that sends a clear signal to Saddam Hussein, make sure they don't make peace in Palestine. And he's been doing very well on that proposition. INTERVIEWER: Anything, any policy mistakes over the past ten years, to the Arab-Israeli peace process, for example, (Inaudible). DR. LEWIS: Do we have another hour? [CHUCKLES] INTERVIEWER: Have any of them been - could any of them been avoided or done differently, might have, might have made things better for this region of people. 00:27:28>>> DR. LEWIS: Yes. I think that Oslo, although it seemed a wonderful idea at the time, was, I think, looking back, a mistake. [CLEARS THROAT] I think there was a real possibility, then. Because, the PLO, the authorized leadership of the Palestinians, was isolated, and enfeebled, and abandoned. And they - the Palestinian leadership, had made a series of wrong guesses. In the world war - in, in the World War they chose the Nazis. In the Cold War they chose the Soviets. In the Gulf War they chose Saddam Hussein. And after three eras of such magnitude, there was a price to pay. The result is that, at that particular moment, immediately after the Gulf War, they were isolated, enfeebled, impoverished, friendless, even penniless because they had antagonized their Arab pay masters, by choosing the wrong side in the Gulf War. And that was seen by the United States government, and the Israeli government, at the time, as an opportunity for peacemaking. And in effect, they threw Yasser Arafat a life belt, brought him onboard, to start, and build, continued negotiations. 00:28:48>>> I think, as it turned out, I must say, I made the same mistake, at the time, I agreed entirely with what was being done. I think we were all wrong. We were all wrong. And whether it could have been done differently, in that situation, I don't know. But my guess is that there we are dealing with a leadership, for whom any kind of concession is a basis for demanding more. Take, for example, the breakdown after the offer from Ehud Barak. Now, there's been a great deal of argument, as to what precisely Barak offered. Some people say it was an offer of extraordinary generosity. Others dispute this and say that it was hedged around, and so on. Now, I don't think that's the point - whether it was a generous offer or not. Even if it was a generous offer. In a good faith negotiation, Arafat was entitled to reject it. If you're doing well in negotiation, and you get a generous offer, the natural thing to do is to try and get something still more generous. I have no quarrel with that. But in, in that case you would have to make a counter proposal. Well, he never did make a counter proposal. Instead he launched an armed insurrection. And when he had driven to the conclusion, that what he saw was a real danger, that peace might break out, in which case what becomes of him? INTERVIEWER: You sound, this is a final point, you sound optimistic when you describe the possible rise of democracy in Iraq, and given that, at times, he (Inaudible) in Iran. DR. LEWIS: Well, I don't have much faith in Khatami , INTERVIEWER: Okay, but - 00:30:24>>> DR. LEWIS: No, I'm, I'm cautiously optimistic. Let me put it this way, in, in the middle, if every - classified countries, in terms of their attitudes to the United States, we can divide the Middle East into three zones: zone one is countries with governments which we are pleased to call friendly, pro-American governments, and therefore, venomously, anti-American populations, because they regard America, with some justification, as being responsible for the corrupt tyrants that rule and oppress them. And, as they used to say in Moscow, it's no accident comrades, that of the hijackers and terrorists, from September 11th, the overwhelming majority came from quote, friendly, unquote, countries. 00:31:12>>> Now, the second zone, are countries with violently hostile governments, namely Iraq and Iran. And all the evidence is that the populations there are friendly, and wish to be friendlier. This is more so in Iran, than in Iraq. Most of the Iranians do not have the Iraqi experience of having been led on and led down, that the Iraqis have when, in 91', President Bush Sr. called on the Iraqi people to rise and revolt against the tyrant, they did, and then we made a cease fire and just sat and watched while the tyrant destroyed them, group by group and region by region. So, [CLEARS THROAT] the Iraqis are understandably wary. But even though all the indications are that they would welcome being liberated. 00:32:02>>> The third zones are the countries that both the government and the people are pro-American. And those, of course, are the only two countries, Turkey and Israel, where the government represents the people. In those two countries elections change governments, in all the other countries in the region, governments change elections. [COUGHS] [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] In those two countries, in Turkey and Israel, elections change governments. In all the other countries in the region, those that have elections, governments change elections. INTERVIEWER: Is there anything that you might have left off, (Inaudible) a hundred years from now in the Middle East? 00:33:15>>> DR. LEWIS: [CHUCKLES] There is one other point, which may be worth mentioning, and that is oil. A time will come when oil will no longer matter. Either because Middle Eastern supplies are exhausted. Or much more probably, because a clean, renewable substitute for oil is developed, and we no longer need Middle Eastern oil. That, I think, would be the moment of truth. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,END OF INTERVIEW
TOMB OF UNKNOWN SOLIDER
17:24:06:10 VS tombstoen for Fred O Hasslacher (1:44) / 17:25:49:20 MS guard outside Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Ground is wet, sky is grey. He goes through his ceremonial ritual with his rifle an ...