PA-0088 Beta SP
Word to the Wives, A
Interview with Dennis Ross pt 2
Interview with Dennis Ross, envoy for Pres. Clinton and head of Policy Planning for George H. Bush In '91. Re: Oslo Agreement, Rabin, Shamir, Arafat, Netanyahu and Barak , INTERVIEWER:,What about socializing the people for peace? Both sides were supposed to prepare their people as well. That was one of the (Inaudible). ,01:44:33>>>, DENNIS ROSS:,I think, one of the big failings of this process was the lack of conditioning on either side of their publics for peace. To be fair, to premise to Barak, he made an effort. He talked about painful compromises. And, in fact, many of the steps that he subsequently, or in the end, was prepared to take, certainly emerged in the Israeli media, so the Israeli public was used to what was coming. They expected it. On the Palestinian side, there was absolutely no conditioning whatsoever. Arafat never, ever, talked about having to give up anything. They were going to achieve everything. So, if I had to do it over again, one, one of the changes I would make about OUR involvement, is I would have had us, early on, make it clear, that if there wasn't conditioning for peace, we could not stay involved in the process. That would have created a much earlier, and much more relevant test. If, in fact, Arafat hadn't been able to do it, then it would have told us he wasn't capable of really making the kind of compromises necessary to make peace. And if he had done it, his own interest in accelerating the process would have gone up, because he would have needed to deliver. Having exposed himself on the issue of compromise, which could have opened him to attack, he needed to show what he was gaining, what he was producing for it. So, I would have done that. ,01:45:44>>>,And, in fact, as I said, you really didn't see conditioning on either side, except during Barak's period. During the Rabin/Peres period, there really wasn't conditioning about the future, because they were focused only on the interim issues, not the permanent status issues. During Netanyahu's time, there was no conditioning, because we were basically just trying to keep the process alive. So, you really - that should have, I think, been an American condition for our involvement. Because, with it you had a chance to succeed-without it, in the end you were not going to. , INTERVIEWER:,Was there a sense that the Israeli willingness, throughout the various administrations, to accept some kind of a two state solution? Was there, and is there a (Inaudible)? ,01:46:28>>>, DENNIS ROSS:,Well, there certainly was at Camp David, in the period of the Barak government, there absolutely was. In the period of - the beginnings of Oslo, even if there wasn't an explicit acceptance of that, by the Israelis, they were certainly implicit. There was no doubt, I think, that the Palestinians understood that in the end they would get a state. You know, expectations on the Palestinian side probably went up, in terms of how much of a territory they would get. They would tell us, in the last year of negotiations, in the year 2000, that they would get 100%. But, you know, based on the conversations I had with him, throughout the process, they were not operating on that premise, until the last year when their expectations went up. , INTERVIEWER:,What will it take? ,01:47:14>>>, DENNIS ROSS:,Well, I think what it will take are several things. I have written a book called, The Missing Peace, and I try to focus on, what really are the lessons of the past. I tell the story of what happened, and why it happened. But also, what are some of the critical lessons in the past? If there's one overriding lesson, it's that everybody has to assume a responsibility and be accountable for the decisions they make. That's true for the Israelis, it's true for the Palestinians. And one, one failing of this process is that neither side, Israelis included, never really felt a major obligation to fulfill some of the commitments they had in the Oslo process. And, on the Palestinian side, it was very clear that basically they felt no obligations were, in fact, sacrosanct, except to the Israelis. ,Yasser Arafat used to always talk about, he wanted only the accurate implementation of the agreements. Yet, the only accurate implantation he wanted, was the Israeli accurate implementation. He wasn't so concerned about his own. There needs to be accountability. There needs to be responsibilities assumed on the Palestinian side, in particular. There is a history of being a victim. And it's understandable, because they have been victims. But, at some point, they transformed being a victim from being only a condition, to a strategy. And when you're a victim, you're entitled, you don't have to do anything. When you're a victim it's always up to somebody else. And one of the critical things for the Palestinians is to be ready to assume responsibility and to be accountable for decisions. To delegitimize those who will use terror and violence, to oppose peaceful coexistence, that's critical for the Palestinians. ,01:48:47>>>,For the Israelis, the Israelis are going to have to adjust to the reality where they actually have to yield control. Israel gives up control, Palestinians give up terror. Israel adjusts to the reality that Palestinians will be independent, Palestinians accept Israel as a Jewish state. These are the two kinds of premises, or hallmarks that will make a peace agreement, likely. In the end, the Palestinians will get the bulk of the territories. In the end, something like the Clinton ideas, will be the shape of an outcome for the simple reason that the geography isn't going to change, and the demography isn't going to change. The trends in demography are not going to change. What the Clinton ideas represented were our best judgments, of what each side needed, not what they wanted, but what they needed. And ultimately, we will get back to a point where that reality reimposes itself. , INTERVIEWER:,Was there any sense of heartbreak, or dashed dreams, at the (Inaudible)? ,01:50:02>>>, DENNIS ROSS:,Well it was a - you know, when we had the last meeting with Arafat, on January 2nd, 2001, when that meeting ended I knew what I had been involved in, everything I had been working for was over. We weren't going to achieve it. It wasn't going to happen now. It didn't mean it would never happen, but it meant it wasn't going to happen now, and it wasn't going to happen for the foreseeable future. Because I knew the pendulum was gonna swing. ,You had, had a major effort at producing a solution. And it had failed. And the Israeli government, that had been responsible for presiding over that, was going to lose. And it was going to be replaced by a government that would take a very different view. And that meant we were going to be in a different reality than we had been. It meant we were going back to crisis management, not to building a solution. And what we had also seen on the Palestinian side, is that somehow, they thought that violence could work. And the one thing Palestinians have to learn is, there will never be a Palestinian State born of violence. When they accept that reality, then peace will become a real possibility. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,01:51:20>>>, DENNIS ROSS:,I don't believe that Arafat could do an end of conflict deal. He could do limited deals. Of course he could accept the Israelis giving almost everything back. And maybe, even, he would have assumed certain responsibilities on security, but what he would not have done is give up some claims. And I don't believe he was prepared to give up on the right of return to Israel. He had negotiators who were looking for ways to keep the principals, but not carry it out, so that Israel's needs would be protected. He might have gone along with some kind of formula, but he always would have reverted to that, at some point when he came under pressure. The problem with Arafat is that when he came under pressure from Palestinians, instead of saying, this is it, this is what we agreed to, this is over, and we have an agreement that fulfills our aspirations and meets our needs of dignity, that he wasn't prepared to do. So, I don't believe there were any parameters in the end that he was prepared to accept. As long as the groundwork was ending the conflict. If it was something short of ending a conflict, he would have agreed to almost anything. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,The only thing that I would - when I talked before about how I would have - if I had to do it over again, I would have started on the conditioning of the public. If we had known, clearly, that Arafat could not do an end of conflict deal, and it would have been revealed by his unwillingness to condition his public for compromise, then we would've restructured what it was we were working towards. We would've worked for much more limited deals, we would've worked for an extended modus vivendi. We would've worked to improve the people-to-people interaction of the two publics, so that you made it more difficult to stereotype and demonize. We would in other words have created the conditions for an eventual settlement but one that was possible only after he was gone from the scene. I gotta go.,01:53:22>>>, DENNIS ROSS: ,Well I think at the end, certainly after Camp David, his main focus was protecting Barak. He felt Barak was very exposed-alright-Certainly after Camp David, president Clinton felt that the first obligation he had was to protect Barak. Because what he saw in Barak was someone who was very exposed for the concessions he'd been willing to accept. And from a political standpoint he wanted to help him survive and his focus was on helping him survive, not on responding to Arafat who he felt had basically stonewalled for fifteen days. We had gone to a high-stakes summit and Arafat had stonewalled for fifteen days and Barak had put his future on the line. ,01:54:07>>>,So from President Clinton's standpoint, the one you had to safeguard, the one you had to watch out for, was Barak. At the end of the Administration, I mean he still hoped, after the Clinton ideas were put on the table he, President Clinton still hoped (tape screw up) He understood that when Arafat didn't say, yes when he said no he understood the game was over. He wasn't about to admit it because he still hoped that maybe Barak would win the election and he knew if he came out and said there's nothing more he can do, that that would put the last nails in Barak's political coffin. And he wasn't gonna do that. But if you look at what president Clinton says about Arafat, you'll find that he feels that he simply wasn't up to it.
US King - 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King speech
TAPE: EF03/0775 IN_TIME: 00:39:59 DURATION: 3:41 SOURCES: VARIOUS RESTRICTIONS: DATELINE: Washington DC - 28 August 2003/recent/file SHOTLIST: APTN File Washington, DC - August 28, 1963 (Copyright Permission Granted by Intellectual Properties Management, Atlanta, Georgia, as manager of the King Estate - Must Courtesy King Estate. Not for Library or archives. Copyright holder requires the following statement as on screen mention or included in voice track: "Further Dr. King's legacy by making community service a way of life. Please visit the King Center's website to find a service opportunity in your neighbourhood: www.thekingcenter.org") 1. Wide of people on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial 2. People clapping 3. Wide of Lincoln Memorial 4. SOUNDBITE (English) Martin Luther King, Jr: "Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are free at last." ABC File Unidentified Location/date 5. Still photo of King with his children and wife APTN Washington, DC - August 28, 2003 6. Martin Luther King III walking up to podium 7. SOUNDBITE (English) Martin Luther King III: "I would have to say that components of the dream have come true, but we still have a long way to go." APTN Washington, DC - August 28, 1963 (Copyright Permission Granted by Intellectual Properties Management, Atlanta, Georgia, as manager of the King Estate - Must Courtesy King Estate. Not for Library or archives. Copyright holder requires the following statement as on screen mention or included in voice track: "Further Dr. King's legacy by making community service a way of life. Please visit the King Center's website to find a service opportunity in your neighbourhood: www.thekingcenter.org") 8. SOUNDBITE (English) Martin Luther King, Jr: "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true nature of its creed." 9. Wide of crowds at the speech APTN New York City, New York - August 21, 2003 10. Book "The Dream: Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Speech that Inspired a Nation" 11. Author Drew Hansen looking at book 12. SOUNDBITE (English) Drew Hansen, Author of "The Dream: Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Speech that Inspired a Nation": "There was a lot of anxiety about the march on Washington. A lot of members of Congress, representatives of the media, thought it could turn into a riot. And so Washington was a heavily armed camp on the morning of the march." ABC File Unidentified Locations/dates 13. Man drinking from a "White Only" drinking fountain 14. White's only store 15. Ku Klux Klan members burning a cross ABC Washington, DC - August 24, 2003 16. SOUNDBITE (English) John Lewis, Democratic Congressman from Georgia and Civil Rights activist: "A tremendous amount of fear, especially in the heart of the Deep South. People were literally afraid to stand up for themselves in many places. They would get arrested, go to jail, get beaten, maybe shot, maybe killed. But the fear is gone now." APTN File ??? AS INCOMING Los Angeles, California, 1991 17. Video of Rodney King being beaten by police APTN File Inglewood, California 18. African-American teenager being beaten by police 19. Close-up of police punching suspect POOL File Inglewood, California - July, 2003 20. Police officer Bijan Darvish being acquitted of charges in beating 21. SOUNDBITE (English) Molly Bell, activist: "I mean, what do we have to do? We get it on video. We get it on tape. Still, no justice." APTN Washington, DC - August 22, 2003 22. Exterior of Ben's Chili Bowl restaurant 23. People eating in restaurant 24. SOUNDBITE (English) Ben Ali, owner of Ben's Chili Bowl: "Well, he said 'you have a dream' and now you try to realise your dream. And your dream is striving for excellence." 25. SOUNDBITE (English) Marion Barry, former Mayor of Washington: "We've made a lot of progress in the social areas, lunch counters and libraries and inter-state travel but when it comes to where the money is, there's still a lot of racism." 26. Memorial plaque on steps of the Lincoln Memorial where King, Jr. gave his "Dream" speech 27. Tourists taking pictures of plaque 28. Plaque with Washington Monument in background STORYLINE: Forty years after his famous "I have a dream" speech, Martin Luther King, Jr.'s vision of a colorblind America has yet to be achieved, according to many African-Americans and Civil Rights leaders. King made his speech on August 28, 1963 to an estimated quarter-of-a-million activists gathered to demand equal rights for blacks on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, DC. Now his son, Martin Luther King III is intent on furthering the assassinated leader's legacy alive. He held a news conference in Washington on Thursday to mark the date, saying that while progress has been made, the dream is still a dream, especially in the economic realm. The day of the speech, many of the nation's leaders were quietly alarmed and feared for their safety, even alerting the Pentagon to have armed troops at the ready, says author Drew Hansen. Hansen has just published a book on the subject - "The Dream: Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Speech that Inspired a Nation." Many of the era's Civil Rights leaders compare today favourably with their treatment in the past. John Lewis, a Democratic congressman from Georgia, remembers the risk of beatings, shootings and lynchings he faced in the Deep South, and says the fear is gone. But many younger African-Americans don't relate to the 1960's and segregation as much as they relate to Rodney King and the perception of police racial profiling. The recent acquittal of one of the police officers videotaped beating an African-American teenager in Inglewood, California for a driver's licence violation sparked new outrage in the community. Many blacks say they still get no justice in the legal world. That feeling extends to the financial domain as well. Unemployment in the African-American community is still much higher than among whites. They also earn lower wages. At Ben's Chili Bowl, a popular black eatery in Washington, DC that served Martin Luther King, Jr. during his visits to Washington, the feeling is that the dream is still taking form. Ben Ali, owner of the restaurant, says things are better now than then, and points to multi-millionaire success stories in the world of athletics, arts and politics. Former Mayor Marion Barry, who was a King-era Civil Rights leader himself, says that racism is still apparent in the economic world, where blacks have difficulty joining the corporate world at the highest levels.
Haiti’s wounds: a country sinking into crisis
France 24
Inauguration of Ronald Reagan 1985
Inauguration of Ronald Wilson Reagan as President Of The United States, who then went on to complete his second term in office 1985 Inaugural Address - Ronald Reagan Senator Mathias, Chief Justice Burger, Vice President Bush, Speaker O'Neill, Senator Dole, reverend clergy, and members of my family and friends and my fellow citizens: This day has been made brighter with the presence here of one who, for a time, has been absent. Senator John Stennis, God bless you and welcome back. There is, however, one who is not with us today. Representative Gillis Long of Louisiana left us last night. And I wonder if we could all join in a moment of silent prayer. [The President resumed speaking after a moment of silence. ] Amen. There are no words adequate to express my thanks for the great honor that you've bestowed on me. I'll do my utmost to be deserving of your trust. This is, as Senator Mathias told us, the 50th time that we, the people, have celebrated this historic occasion. When the first President, George Washington, placed his hand upon the Bible, he stood less than a single day's journey by horseback from raw, untamed wilderness. There were 4 million Americans in a union of 13 States. Today, we are 60 times as many in a union of 50 States. We've lighted the world with our inventions, gone to the aid of mankind wherever in the world there was a cry for help, journeyed to the Moon and safely returned. So much has changed, and yet we stand together as we did two centuries ago. When I took this oath 4 years ago, I did so in a time of economic stress. Voices were raised saying that we had to look to our past for the greatness and glory. But we, the present-day Americans, are not given to looking backward. In this blessed land, there is always a better tomorrow. Four years ago, I spoke to you of a New Beginning, and we have accomplished that. But in another sense, our New Beginning is a continuation of that beginning created two centuries ago when, for the first time in history, government, the people said, was not our master, it is our servant; its only power that which we the people allow it to have. That system has never failed us, but for a time we failed the system. We asked things of government that government was not equipped to give. We yielded authority to the National Government that properly belonged to States or to local governments or to the people themselves. We allowed taxes and inflation to rob us of our earnings and savings and watched the great industrial machine that had made us the most productive people on Earth slow down and the number of unemployed increase. By 1980 we knew it was time to renew our faith, to strive with all our strength toward the ultimate in individual freedom, consistent with an orderly society. We believed then and now: There are no limits to growth and human progress when men and women are free to follow their dreams. And we were right to believe that. Tax rates have been reduced, inflation cut dramatically, and more people are employed than ever before in our history. We are creating a nation once again vibrant, robust, and alive. But there are many mountains yet to climb. We will not rest until every American enjoys the fullness of freedom, dignity, and opportunity as our birthright. It is our birthright as citizens of this great Republic. And if we meet this challenge, these will be years when Americans have restored their confidence and tradition of progress; when our values of faith, family, work, and neighborhood were restated for a modern age; when our economy was finally freed from government's grip; when we made sincere efforts at meaningful arms reductions and by rebuilding our defenses, our economy, and developing new technologies, helped preserve peace in a troubled world; when America courageously supported the struggle for individual liberty, self-government, and free enterprise throughout the world and turned the tide of history away from totalitarian darkness and into the warm sunlight of human freedom. My fellow citizens, our nation is poised for greatness. We must do what we know is right, and do it with all our might. Let history say of us: These were golden years-when the American Revolution was reborn
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Cheshire casualty
FAMILY AND FRIENDS IN CHESHIRE REMEMBER THE MAN KILLED BY FRIENDLY FIRE IN AFGHANISTAN.
USA American Mexican Border Wall Slow Pan with Text Space
USA American Mexican Border Wall with Left to Right Slow Pan
TV TALK SHOWS
Dr. Martin Luther King 16:02 I think so. I think he should, I think he should give fireside chats on it. And then I think more than one would be necessary. I think the president should also have conferences with congressmen and get them try to persuade them to see the necessity of passing this bill. And I think he would need to talk with certain groups across the country. So that it will create a climate of civil rights concern will be created. And people all over the country will be writing their senators and their representatives in Congress on this issue. I think these things are absolutely necessary. And I think the the devotees or civil rights will have to do something. I mean, I think the civil rights leaders and all of the the Negroes in the country, as well as allies in the white community will have to do something and I don't throw out the idea of the necessity of a march on Washington. Even sit ins and Congress to get this issue dramatize so much that it cannot be ignored. David Susskind 17:22 March on Washington by negros and whites. Dr. Martin Luther King 17:26 Yes, all citizens. Yes, I'm thinking now of, of all people of goodwill, who are concerned about the American dream and the implementation of the basic principles of our democracy. And this would include negros and whites, and I think it would have more power, if it is an interracial March, calling upon our nation to bring into being these just laws which will take us on a long, long way toward the American dream. David Susskind 18:00 In the recent meeting between James Baldwin, you know, on Harry Belafonte and other prominent negros with the Attorney General, the suggestion was made that the President could make a very dramatic contribution to the issue. By taking the University of Alabama Negro applicants to the school himself, the Attorney General was reported to recoil at this idea to been stung or horrified or taken aback. Do you think the President United States should go to that dramatic degree by way of using moral power of his office? Dr. Martin Luther King 18:35 Yes, I think so. I, I have said on several occasions in recent days, that this would be the kind of meaningful Act and the kind of dramatic thrust that would make it clear all over the world that we mean business when we talk about basic human rights and democracy and guaranteeing these basic rights to all citizens. And I think we have come to the point in our nation that we need this kind of moral witness on the part of the highest official and the most respected citizen in our nation. It would, it would give a sense of hope to the Negro, it would give a sense of support to the many, many white people of goodwill north and south who had been working in this area. And it would do a great deal to lift the image of the United States, in the eyes of the world, people of all countries who are looking and they are seeing all of these bad things, but to see this as a great Moral Act would do a great deal, I think to give us a better image all over the world. David Susskind 19:56 Dr. King, we must pause for just a brief moment. We'll be right back. David Susskind 20:01 Is the President United States to date wanting in the way in which he has used the moral power of his office moral suasion. And if you do find him wanting in your remarks up to this time seem to suggest that you do. What has been his motive? Do you think in holding back? Dr. Martin Luther King 20:21 Well, I must honestly confess that the President hasn't done all that he could do. And we would like to see him do in the area of civil rights. I don't want to be unfair. In my criticism, I want to say on one hand that the President has done some significant things in civil rights. And I think he is basically a man of genuine goodwill. Who wants to do the right thing. And I could point to some of the things that he's done that have been helpful. On the other hand, the president Kennedy has not yet given the leadership that the enormity of the problem demands, he has failed to live up to his campaign promises. He has not gone on record calling for any meaningful civil rights legislation up to now. And if he does, in the coming days, we would welcome this, but he has not done it in the past. And, of course, that is still the need to use the power of moral persuasion to a greater degree than he has in the past. This is one area where the President has has not moved with, with a great sense of urgency.
Shimon Peres Interview
01:26:30>>>INTERVIEWER: There was a time when it papered that Yasser Arafat was a suitable partner for peace. What do you think went wrong? How did we come to the point now where we do not have that situation?,01:27:02>>>SHIMON PERES: Basically Arafat when he was the head of the Palestine revolution he has had head of the collation of armed groups with him. The moment he became the head of the autonomy we discovered that he's not able to make the shift. To be the head of the revolution is one thing. To be the head of the state is another thing to be the head of the state is another thing. PartiCUlarly the softest point was that he didn't understand that by just disarming the Fata, his party, and letting the other party carry arms it underCUt his own authority. It's either him controlling them or them controlling him. and they stopped taking orders from them. so even if he would like to CUt the terror he couldn't without disarming first the terrorist, the terrorists groups. Now Arafat ah made some contributions in the beginning quite courageous but then he emerged as an extremely weak leader of a state in being. And that's the greatest problem. ,01:51:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Was this a failure of his character or personality?,02:51:09>>>SHIMON PERES: It was, he became a victim of his habits. Because how they ran a revolution. you have this little bit money in brown envelopes. There was no rules and no regulations. you all the time negotiating with the other groups how to act terroristically. You don't have a separation of responsibilities between the legislative, the judicial and the exeCUtive. Everything is mixed. Then it's full of conspiracies. Then you have one leader. And all these habits that he's acquired during 30 years of his leadership he couldn't get rid of them. now I talked with him at great lengths about it and I told him look at Bangolia. He was also a head of ah, armed group not only but also in order to achieve independence for the Jewish. The minute he became head of the state he says no room for any other armed group but Daganah, which was the official armed group. And he went as far as ordering to shoot at the ship that brought arms to Israel and killing 20 people Jewish because they didn't take the orders. I told him if you want, if you won't do it you don't have a future. I told many times to Arafat. I think he was suspicious that I'm trying you know to introduce a division between me, him and the other parties because his reply was I shall disarm them politically. In the elections of 1996 after the assignation of Isaac Rabin another wave of terror started. I replaced Rabin as you know. and I did things which were very controversial in the eyes of the Israelis and very important in the eyes of the Palestinians. I handed over 460 villages to the Palestinians. 6 cities. And able to have elections including in Jerusalem. They praised and appreciate. All of a sudden they started to explode ah to explode bombs in ah Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv and in Ashkiranash. Arafat are you crazy with all the reactions what are you doing?,05:21:25>>>SHIMON PERES: And in the beginning again he tried to convince the Hamas to stop it that you had to stop it without any effect. Finally when he saw that the situation was really becoming very severe he went to fight the Hamas. And he killed 20 of the Hamas leaders. He arrested thousands. He discovered the cashes of arms there are gifts and terror went down but the person who INAUDIBLE was Netanyahu who replaced me. I lost the elections because he didn't do it in time. I lost with 1/3 of a percent. Netanyahu won because Arafat waked up too late.,06:07:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What did he gain from it from doing all this?,06:07:19>>>SHIMON PERES: He didn't gain anything he lost. I was told that he was crying after he heard the results of the elections.,06:20:10>>>INTERVIEWER: And why do you think he did not accept what was offered to him at Camp David?,06:20:20>>>SHIMON PERES: First of all I think Camp David was not conducted with great wisdom. Barak and Arafat sat at the same place for 15 days. And Barak spoke with Arafat for ½ and hour. In the eyes of the Palestinians, not only the Palestinians Palestine is a very matter. And you feel like somebody's snubbing you. It's not very, it's not done in negotiations. In negotiations you don't negotiate just about points. You negotiate about relations. And if you win too much you may loose your partner. That was one thing. And then as far as I'm concerned those negotiating with Arafat some of my friends never take Arafat yes for an answer. I learn not to take his no for an answer. I'm never impressed by his no's. ,07:19:02>>>SHIMON PERES: I remember when we were negotiating in Cairo the whole night chaired Mubarak. In the morning when it came to the sign the maps Arafat said I'm not signing. In front of all the television. It was a scandal. It was a shame. And Arafat approached him and they didn't I'm not going to quote how he called him and he told him sign. What happened is Arafat took out the pen and signed. That's another thing. But there is a third point which we shouldn't forget. And I told it to Barak before. Barak demanded that Arafat will announce that after the agreement he will have no claims anymore. The minute (COUGH OFF SCREEN). The minute he says he raised two impossible issues at the time the issue of Jerusalem and the issue of refuges and bought it to the central of the disCUssion and we knew that we can not reach an agreement. ,08:18:15>>>SHIMON PERES: If Arafat should declare he doesn't have anymore claims it means he has to turn his back to the Palestinian refuges. Something that he cannot do. and I thought you don't have to buy from the other party all the dreams and all the demands. Let things hang in there. (COUGH OFF SCREEN). But all told Arafat committed a terrible mistake by rejecting the proposals of Clinton and Barak despite what they have said. And he's not paying the price for this rejection. ,09:04:15>>>INTERVIEWER: If you could compare him to King Hussein what kind of a peace partner was King Hussein?,09:04:23>>>SHIMON PERES: King Hussein wanted peace and he was a responsible negotiator for peace. But here let me say in a wider sense historically speaking. There are 2 ½ million Palestinians here in the territories. There are another 3 ½ million Palestinians that close the door on their leader, on the King on the throne. And they might, some people say you cant not (COUGH OFF SCREEN) make peace with the Palestinians. And I'm asking myself why do we have peace with the Palestinians in trans Jordan in the kingdom of Jordan. You know there are 2 cities close to each other Elad and Dakab maybe a few miles INAUDIBLE. During the 54 years of the existence of the stated of Israel not a single bullet was fired from one city to another city. There's the piece of land between the Red and the Dead Sea almost 120, 130 miles long without fences, without INAUDIBLE, without infiltrators. (COUGH OFF SCREEN) There Jordanians don't permit ah terrorist coming from Jordan into Israel. There are no suicidal bombers. Why is that? those are the same people. Why those 2 ½ million people decided to live peace with us and these 3 ½ million people are in revolt, in terror, in violence, in bitterness. ,10:45:07>>>SHIMON PERES: There are 2 differences. One is that in Jordan they have an organized government. Doesn't hang upon the whim of a single man. The have one army not 12 armies like the Palestinian side. They have one treasurer they don't have several treasurers. They have one commander in chief and not many commanders of chief. And I'd say certainly it's not a complete democracy they are far from it but there is separation between their legislative and judicial and ah exeCUtive branches. The Palestinians don't have it. So they brought in a INAUDIBLE and they live in a CUltic state. There was nobody in charge in spite of all the authorities. The other thing which we have to take into consideration too. We don't dominate any piece of land in Jordan. At the early times of Zionism Jabatinisky said the 2 banks of the Jordan river belongs to us the east and the west. Thanks heavens they gave up half to their program because if you would put settlements across the Jordan river we would create an INAUDIBLE there as well. So we have to correct those 2 mistakes. And I'm speaking objectively. To force the Palestinians to have a reformed government. And to enable us to retreat from the territories.,12:52:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Of course people have spoken about the settlements here as a problem. If there were no settlements do you believe that there would be peace between Israel and the Palestinians?,12:52:27>>>SHIMON PERES: It would help a great deal. It would be very different situation undoubtedly. I use saying you know you can break eggs and make an omelet. But you can not make from omelet eggs again. Too many eggs were broken and now we have to find a solution. The most aCUte situation clearly is in the Gaza strip. When I was Defense Minister in 1974 the population of Gaza was 350 thousand people. Today there are 1 million 200 thousand people. Almost four times as many. The size of the land is petit. It's 220 miles. It has the density, maybe the most densified piece of land in the world. It's a 5.2 rate of birth. Every 12 births they will double themselves. We have not 7,000 settlers in Gaza. 7,000 vis a vis 1 million 200 thousand. We are forced to close it for security reasons. They are closed so they don't work. They don't work they are very close to suffer starvation. What do we need to see them. and we have an alternative land prepared for those settlers in-between the southern tip of Gaza and Kidisberna which is on the border which Egypt. There's no sense to sit in the middle of this populated and bitter piece of land.,15:37:00>>>INTERVIEWER: He said that there's a demographic time bomb ticking in Israel and that even if Gaza's returned and even if the West Bank is returned there will still be a problem with the many Palestinians or Israeli Arabs that live here. In the long run is it possible for Israel to be true to its ideals while at the same time remaining a democracy with one person one vote?,15:37:20>>>SHIMON PERES: I think yes because you see the rate of birth depends upon the standard of living. The poorer the people are rate of birth is higher. And poor people produce many children and their many children produce more poverty. It's a vicious circle. You know we have here in, among the Palestinians two communities the Muslim and the Christian. The Christian community is well off better than the Muslims. So naturally their rate of birth went down. Because when you're poor you don't care how many children you have. All of them will be hungry. But you are becoming better off you want to invest more in every child than to invest in more children. So this there is while societies are imbalancing themselves. And also what happened is you see the size of a family in previous times say 50 or 100 years ago with 8 or 9 children. In many countries such a large number of children was a product of their medical situation because 3 or 4 passed away. So they would remain with 4 or 5 children. Today with an improved medicine the whole family remains alive. And the family's incapable to feed so many children. So I mean there is logic in demography as well. Geography is immobile. Demography is mobile and it is based not only upon a piece of land but also upon a piece of logic. ,17:35:00>>>INTERVIEWER: There's also religion, religion influences demography?,17:35:12>>>SHIMON PERES: Yes and no because religion too is changing you see. I'm not a great believer in the theory of hunting to an INAUDIBLE crash among civilizations. I'd rather believe there was a crash within every civilization. Namely adaptation of your determined religion with the changing epochs. I mean you can not compare the all you see today with what it was in the medieval time with the inquisition. You can not say to the pope of today he's like the pope in the 15th or 14th century. Now what changed Christianity the Muslims they choose no. they develop in time. you know the Russians were educating their children to be communists. All of a sudden communist fall down. What make it fall down? American intervention the European intervention. Again the intervention of a new age. And now we approach INAUDIBLE and the Muslims they can not remain with old habits in a totally different era. And I believe we shall see changes., ,19:38:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You are seen as a great statement among people in the United states, among Jewish community and the community at large. And at one time you had a vision as a center in the middle east the center. This dream seems so far away today what would you say to people today in this country and elsewhere who have given up hope for peace?,19:38:28>>>SHIMON PERES: That's a INAUDIBLE people they give up, they give they gave up for peace too early. Maybe we are today close to realize this vision more than ever before. I didn't say that Israel will become a center. I thought Israel should have the middle east enter (COUGH OFF SCREEN) the new age. Because today most of the political problems are being solved economically. Europe was living in hatred and blood for a thousand. And 3 years Europe changed in spite of all their memories and all their education. What John Monet did for the future of Europe is much more than napoleon did for INAUDIBLE past. What changed Europe is the economy not the wars. And the same thing goes now for china. If you ask me what is the greatest achievement of high technology I would say china. They're changing the face of china. And they said time has come for the middle east to change as well. To go from the old bitterness of wars about territory to the new horizon of economic, scientific and technological cooperation. I wrote a book it's called the New Middle East. It was criticized very much among the Arabs. One day the president of Egypt invited me and says Shimon time has come that you will listen to your critics. And in short they said look you are trying to dominate the Arab economy under the cover of having a new middle east.,19:20:25>>>SHIMON PERES: I told him gentlemen there is no Arab economy there is Arab poverty. Who wants to govern poverty. What for? Toady poverty is national and affluence is global. And unless you come in the global arena and open up, open your borders, open your skies let the objectivity of science. The promise of technology(COUGH OFF SCREEN) play it's free role then you'll save your children. You'll save the land from becoming desert and your children from becoming beggars. ,22:09:50>>>INTERVIEWER: Do you see any Arab leader who will be a hypothetical peace partner should that opportunity come?,22:10:01>>>SHIMON PERES: The leaders on the horizon are our leaders of yesterdays. The new leaders are unseen you don't know who they were who they are. Would you know who did produce the change in ah Russia it was unseen people. Or who did it china or did it in Europe. Jean Monet was an economist not even a general. And I believe that this is a confrontation not among politicians. And among religions and not upon economies. It is if you want a confrontation between two generations the outgoing generation that refuses to leave the scene and the incoming generation that doesn't have yet enough strength to take over. ,24:03:50>>>INTERVIEWER: I have no doubt that these people exist but there are young people that see Israel as facing the greatest threat of its survival since the creation of the state. Some blame us, some blame the Arabs in general some don't know what to say but they seem so pessimistic and when we travel it seems like we've gone back into time. the roads are full of holes. The Arabs seemed terrified. They seem passive, resigned and hopeless. It seems we've gone so far can we really see any hope when people feel so threatened on both sides?,24:04:10>>>SHIMON PERES: 100% around the INAUDIBLE doubt about it. ,24:12:05>>>INTERVIEWER: About what?,24:12:11>>>SHIMON PERES: About the change coming you know usually the future is in minority but it's a winning minority (COUGH OFF SCREEN) because it is the future. In a few weeks or so there will begun, begin the great confrontation between the world of terrorism and the world of INAUDIBLE of peace. In the 20th century the main confrontation was with the Communists, the Nazi's, the Fascists. Each of them has had a country behind them, an army behind them. terrorism is a new phenomena. It's more a protest then ideology without rules, without cords, without merits, without values. And there wild and a dangerous and you can also see that a poor country economically can be a rich country militarily. They can have modern arms and so on and so forth. So the free world doesn't have a choice but to bring an end to terror and terrorism. If communism and ah nazism was in Europe terrorism is in the Middle East. And now you see in the Middle East the great confrontation between people that want to enter a plane and be sure that they will arrive to their target. That they can walk in the street, attend a coffee, drink fresh water. So the changes in the Middle East are by far closer than we think.,25:55:17>>>SHIMON PERES: And you will see in the coming 5 to 10 years the great confrontation between these 2 civilizations, if you want, the civilization of terror without respect for human life, without any rational approach, without reference to the changes in our time and forces that will come not only from the outside but also from within the Arab world. Within the Muslim world. Not to do a favor to anybody but to save themselves from the agonies and cost of mistakes. ,26:41:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Will they have the courage to do so?,26:41:07>>>SHIMON PERES: They don't have a choice you know. courage also comes when you don't have a choice. What are they going to do remain backward poor, hated, isolated, a target for attacks and blames. ,27:08:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Will there be among the Palestinians people who say they don't have a choice?,27:08:10>>>SHIMON PERES: Yes few day, few weeks ago the number 2 man in the autonomy Abu Mazaum stood back, stood up and says we have to CUt the INAUDIBLE. It's a tragedy. it's a catastrophe for the Palestinian people. And INAUDIBLE and so are many of the people who may say publicly one thing but privately they know exactly what's happening. And they know that the Palestinians are paying an impossible cost. ,28:19:50>>>INTERVIEWER: Yesterday we spoke with Hamed Qatari who is a Hamas leader. he was one of the 450 people who came back. He and other people that we spoke with said that they will fight this till the last man, woman and child to regain Palestine. I'm sure this is all very familiar to you.,28:20:05>>>SHIMON PERES: What, what would you expect them to say. ,28:20:10>>>INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE,28:23:13>>>SHIMON PERES: That's normal when there is a confrontation and each party is blaming the other party. People are talking and exaggerated and inflamed language. ,28:39:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Don't you feel the fundalism is growing stronger?,28:39:07>>>SHIMON PERES: I think the fundalism is a problem for the Palestinians not less than for us. They destroy the Palestinian position. If Arafat lost in the eyes of the United States and Europe it's because of them not because of us. Because they paint him in an impossible posture and he doesn't know who to escape.,29:21:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What message would you give to the American people? The people out there who are yearning for peace as they look at this?,29:21:10>>>SHIMON PERES: I mean there is no escape but to fight terror. You can not run away from it. Let's not forget it is not the United States that has initiated the war against terror. It is the terrorist who have initiated the war against the United States. And they don't intend to stop. Mach Magandi once said that when a cat is chasing a mouse there is no sense for a mouse to suggest it is frail because it has nothing to do with strategy it has to do with nature. The United States was forced actually in a fight of self defense. And nobody should see it differently. It's not a fight against a religion or against a nation it's a fight against a menace which brings untold catastrophes to the Palestinians and the Arabs and the Muslims themselves. So I think the United States is right and justified. a combination between a dictator and nuclear is a terrible situation. If Hitler had a nuclear bomb in 1939 I don't know where the world would stand. And eventually all other nations will join the United States. I thought it will be even quicker than that because United States always came to the side of Europe. To the side of all the INAUDIBLE the communism, or generals or whatever it is. And they sacrificed the live of their boys. And they won the war and they didn't keep anything for themselves. Now America is attacked. You may expect that the rest will behave likewise historically. , ,31:07:25>>>SHIMON PERES: The second point I want to say is that we are really identified with the United States but differently from all other allies United States has had or is having. We never asked American soldiers to sacrifice their lives to defend Israel. Some of the Europe counties who criticize the United States are having American soldiers defending their land. We never created this situation where an American mother should be worried because her boy's in Israel defending the state of the Jewish. No we shall do it ourselves. The same goals and America helped us which I shall never forget in arms, in political support, in understanding, in financing yes but not in blood and not in dangers. The same goes now for peace. While I'm sure the United States will support the peace process it is for Israel to take the imitative. We shouldn't sit and wait until the Americans take the initiative no. it is our responsibility. We are not running to the United States. United States shouldn't run the process of peace it should support it and they will support it. And I think the sooner the better. Any postponement is a mistake. I believe today the United States is really concerned about the Iranian problem and the terroristic problem. So we shouldn't wait until this problem will be solved. We have to start the peace process on our own. ,32:57:00>>>SHIMON PERES: For the simple reason you can not and you shouldn't fight terrorist without fighting terrorism. What I mean by the reasons for terror. You should give hope to the other side not only to yourself. I mean we can't have the Palestinian cooperation they wont be our collaborators. They will be our party if they gonna have reasons for it. They will never serve us. They will never take orders from us. But if they will see that we are really sincere and peaceful and concerned about them as well and we suggest to CUt a deal which is fair and reasonable historically and other wise we should be able to make.,33:51:15>>>INTERVIEWER: But didn't we give them a fair deal?,33:51:19>>>SHIMON PERES: Suppose it wasn't successful so what so we shall try again. You don't divorce history. And you don't use disappointment as your teacher. You'll try it maybe we also committed mistakes and I think we did some. Now the problem is not it's not a baseball match to decide who's the winner. What we have is to create a new ground for our living. You see in war there is no alternative to victory. In peace there is no alternative to compromise. And now that 3 politicians nothing works ever. Nobody likes compromises but you can not have a coexistence without compromise.,34:48:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You'll try again but INAUDIBLE?,34:48:09>>>SHIMON PERES: No no I'm told you, I told you. I see the 3 ½ million people Palestinians who live across the river and are tied to old lessons and there were times also with them we were at war. We were at war with Egypt. We were at war with Jordan. There were times that we mistook. There were times they mistook. Well we can not make mistake and exCUse.,35:24:10>>>INTERVIEWER: That's on their side and now you have more than 200 thousand settlers. How will the country survive this civically?,35:24:20>>>SHIMON PERES: well there were some proposals. There were 2 or 3 proposals . one is concentrate all the settlements on a small piece of land in the West Bank. 3 or 4 percent and have a small, give the Palestinians 2 or 3 percent, 4 percent somewhere else. That's one solution. Another solution can be as there are Arabs living under non Arab government INAUDIBLE living under non Jewish government. This is different from war. You can not say lets have peace which is an extension of war. Doesn't make sense. Peace is a departure not an extension.,36:25:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Everything you say is so logical and beautiful why can't we have your vision implemented?,36:25:07>>>SHIMON PERES: People are angry and disappointed for good reasons. There is terror and violence and mistrust and dissolutions whatever you want. I agree. But if I can suggest a lesson I learned in my life that you can not a, achieve anything which is big without big disappointments and disillusions and troubles. And you think it's the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. And to do something big requires a great effort, a great determination. And face the disillusions with the same determination that you're facing the INAUDIBLE. And that's what we have to do. ,22:37:50>>>B-Roll pictures (no sound) END OF INTERVIEW
PA-0109 Beta SP
Tragedy or Hope
Return ticket: [issue of March 19, 2023]
France 24
1970S TELEVISION SHOWS
Susskind hold up a black and white picture of Jackie O - her hair blowing in the wind while walking on Madison Ave, NYC INTERVIEW: Ron Galella This is my favorite picture of Jackie. When she was walking on Madison Avenue. I sneaked a picture from a taxi window and caught her off guard it has the elements would I have paparazzi photography, David Susskind unrehearsed, am I catching her on the run? Right? Okay, here's another one, which clearly shows our famous Ron Galella hiding in a coat rack. You see him over there. He's in a club. Dining. Ron Galella This is a Chinese restaurant down Chinatown and David Susskind there's Onassis annacis deceased Ron Galella Jackie. I hid behind a coat rack because that's the only place I could hide in its very intimate restaurant. David Susskind Okay. Now, here she seems to be smiling at you. Just tell me she unlike you very much. He sued you. Right. You have to say 25 feet Ron Galella 25 feet by court order. Right. David Susskind Why is she smiling at you? Ron Galella Well, it seems like she changed and mellowed since Eris death. I believe she made a big change. And she's not only finally with me, but other photographers in the press as well. David Susskind She is smiling at you. Yes. Okay. Now they have very hazardous work these photographers and sometimes they get pictures. I had to put a bandaid across Ali McGraw. She said studio 54 with Ron Galella Larry Spangler, her boyfriend boyfriend right. This picture has gotten me in trouble with the studio 54 David Susskind I can understand it because you see under this band aid will never mind. Ron Galella The veining photoplay if she's pretty bad breast green and Playboy magazine. Yeah, another bag. David Susskind How much did you get for that picture Ron Galella $200 in the Great points like they didn't use a band aid, no band aid? No. Well, David Susskind you'll have to get a magazine or something. Here is another Kennedy. This is John Kennedy and his sister Caroline Caroline, on their way to the famous birthday party had a mutual birthday party at a club, which turned into quite a brawl. Right? Right out of that happen. Let's get the brawl scene. There's a John Kennedy. In the middle of being restrained by one of his friends. I gather Ron Galella to one of the photographers was one of the freelance paparazzi were pushed to the ground. And actually, John Kennedy here wanted to stop the fight. And others held sense of his held him back from getting more involved. David Susskind Good thing too, right. You might have been hurt. Okay, here in case you've ever dreamed of this man as a companion on a desert island. This is Bob Dylan. Ron Galella He's one of the toughest to get very elusive. David Susskind Speaking of tough stars to get there's another tough one. Ron Galella But his girlfriend's not so tough. She's peeping through the limousine. David Susskind That's Mick Jagger right here. And there's a girl peeking through saying get me get me Jerry Hall model. Yeah. Is he issuing some threat to you there? No, he's not actually Ron Galella I was asking him to pose with her. And she cooperated without him knowing it. Right. And peeping through and I got a good shot. David Susskind Now this fellow doesn't like to be photographed. Yeah, just Alpha Chino, opportunity. And this girl, Ron Galella Martha Keller And this was taken in the lobby where he lives. This was a he went to a screening went David Susskind Formal I take it in. Ron Galella Right. That's his formal outfit. And I got him in the lobby when he went to the elevator. David Susskind Here's the lady who hates being photographed. I know that firsthand. Her name is Greta Barbo Ron Galella I think she's one of the most sincere ones that don't want to be photographed. David Susskind A lot of them are faking it right. They really love it. Ron Galella That's true, I believe that, David Susskind okay. And here we have a picture that the lady should pay 1000s to have destroyed. Here is the one and only Barbra Streisand Ron Galella and Paul Williams David Susskind and Paul Williams that Ron Galella This shows with the camera. Sometimes it plays tricks on us. But David Susskind that is not a trick. That's your face. No, Ron Galella I think for the most part, what we do is we play mad. We create glamour with these celebrities. And it's just sometimes we catch them in an uncompromising shot. David Susskind And here's another such shot because here's old blue eyes, with bulging punch and thinning hair. He couldn't have been thrilled about this shot. Ron Galella Well, he was in a good mood Fortunately, that offered free golf course in Palm Springs where he lives. David Susskind Can you pull back Mr. Camera man and show a little of the little he's pulling out what good eating does for you. Now we come to a romantic duet Ron Galella Woody Allen and Diane Keaton. David Susskind Yeah, that used to be there's Woody the inimitable well dressed Woody. And there's Diane Keaton one of the beautiful, talented actresses Ron Galella Woody is one of the shy ones well pretends to be I think he's sincere. I think he is shy David Susskind And Diane Keaton has gone on to win the Academy Award for Annie Hall. There she is with her former friend. And now she's with Mr. Love. Warren Beatty, Warren vagaro man who holds the American record for volume Ron Galella is crossing the street going to the Beverly Wilshire hotel. David Susskind It is said of Warren Beatty, if it breeds nevermind. Here's a very hard to photograph man now, during first rate work and recovered from his form of problems, Richard Burton, where'd you get that? Ron Galella This was taken at the Plaza Hotel. He was actually in a good mood even though this picture shows looking like he's angry. But other times he was I got him once at the Dorchester Hotel he was really angry at me wants to suck me and lose, held him back and avoided the punch. Here's David Susskind Elvis Presley shortly before he died giving you some indication of how he'd gone to pot. He was very heavy, overweight, deeply fatigue. Those are his bodyguards Ron Galella yes. A few of them. He has about 15 of them. David Susskind Here's a favorite fellow, he punched you This is Marlon Brando and the man in the mask. The man in the headgear is our own Ron Galella hiding as a football player gun a monk Ron Galella This is after he blasted me with a punch and knocked out what teeth David Susskind you see that 140 1000 bucks Ron Galella at a court settlement David Susskind That's, that's a 10,000 a tooth Ron Galella Rifht, he shook my hand about a couple of years later recently. David Susskind Here's a fella that would be president. His name is Jerry Brown. He's governor of California. And he's often rumored to be with this lady that he is in fact with in this photograph. Yeah. Ron Galella Linda Rondstat. It's definitely a romance. With them. David Susskind You promise? Would you vote for this fellow for President? Ron Galella Well, you see, we can't base it on his on his private life. No. I don't know enough about him. Okay, Judge. David Susskind Well, we've got a born again, Christian, we can have a reconstructed Jesuit, I mean, anyway, let's go on now to some other photographs. Yes.
Scoreboard at an empty baseball field in a public park
Zoom out looking through a chainlink fence at a blank scoreboard on the fringes of an empty, overgrown baseball field.
President Bush / Higher Education Act Signing (1992)
President George Bush signed the Higher Education Act, a law that extends and revises federal support for higher education programs including student financial assistance.
1996 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION / DAY 3
416 & 417 17:29:27 PJ AT ANCHOR BOOTH WORLD NEWS TONIGHT 17:59:59 CLINTON SPEAKING 18:00:18 BLACK 18:00:40 ANCHOR BOOTH 18:03:26 CLINTON GETTING READY TO SPEAK 18:07:56 CLINTON SPEAK AT PODIUM NO SOUND 18:08:57 UP SOUND 18:10:08 97 YEARS SINCE LAST PRESIDENT HAD BEEN THERE 18:10:57 THANK FOLKS 18:18:44 RIGHT TRACK TO 21ST CENTURY 18:24:22 BUDGET DEFICIT 18:24:29 CUT HAWAIIAN MAN AT CONVENTION 18:25:11 PARTICIPATE IN AMERICAN DREAM 18:27:44 RAISE MINIMUM WAGE / EDUCATION LIFT INCOME 18:27:59 GIVING AMERICAN PEOPLE 18:28:53 YEAR 2000 ROARING AS GREATEST NATION 18:29:25 CLINTON HUGS WIFE & SHAKES HANDS ON STAGE 18:29:46 CLINTON WAVES 18:30:44 CROWD SURROUNDS CLINTON 18:31:57 CLINTON GLADHANDING 18:33:24 MEDIA CUTS 18:33:58 MS CROWD GLADHANDING 18:49:59 GONE
The 20H of Darius Rochebin: [issue of November 4, 2022]
LCI
Vote 2000 democratic national convention 1500 - 1600
[Vote 2000 democratic national convention 1500 - 1600] [Vote 2000 DNC - Call to order Day #1] [LOS ANGELES CA, USA] Democratic National Convention 2000 14:54:38 Linda Chavez-Thompson, vice chair of Democratic National Committee and Executive Vice President of AFL-CIO begins speech 14:54:59 Gives beginning part of speech in Spanish 14:55:56 Speaks of labor movement vice president 14:57:39 Al Gore should be commended for his choosing Lieberman and Lieberman for accepting 14:58:26 You are the hope of our country 14:58:35 Linda Chavez-Thompson end speech 14:58:52 Lottie Shackelford, Vice Chair, Democratic National Committee begins speech 14:59:07 This election is critical to our future and to working Americans 15:00:14 Clinton and Gore have led our country into the greatest economy in history 15:01:50 last 8 years fought good fight and not finished work, Al Gore will lead and finish work 15:02:16 end speech 15:02:23 Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor begins speech 15:03:15 With a dream hard work and desire to succeed anything can be achieved 15:03:34 John Kennedy taught her how to dream 15:03:47 John Kennedy gave Americans ability to achieve their dreams 15:05:40 fighting for every child, always remember struggles of past to make a better future 15:05:58 that is what Al Gore is all about, fight for families till all have health care and livable wages 15:06:22 Al Gore will help Americans have the American dream 15:06:44 Al Gore will lead this country to prosperity, end of speech 15:08:51 15 minute break, music playing in background 15:38:05 Honorable Judith Coleman, state auditor of Minnesota speaking 15:38:28 the republican party likes to think they have a monopoly on the fiscal subject 15:39:20 Judith Coleman finishes speech 15:39:38 Carol Pensky, DNC National Finance Co-Chair, begins speech 15:41:33 as our honorary chair tipper gore has gone across the country to get women involved 15:42:20 Gore will have a large number of opportunities 15:42:53 Carol Pensky finishes speech 15:43:00 Joe Cari, National Finance co-chair, DNC begins speech 15:44:25 I am swept in the fact that Gore picked Lieberman, it is great 15:44:44 America is always evolving and always changing 15:45:36 Joe Cari finishes speech 15:45:41 Joel hyatt, National Finance co-chair, DNC, begins speech 15:46:16 This new economy enables us to do America proud 15:46:49 This economic boom wouldn't have happened without the choices of Clinton and Gore 15:48:54 no one believes in the people of this nation more than Gore and Lieberman 15:49:29 Joel Hyatt finishes speech 15:49:38 Bill Nelson, candidate for the US Senate, Florida, and Florida Insurance Commissioner 15:50:08 issues before us central to families and values 15:51:34 worked hard to improve schools and protect environment 15:52:58 expand medicare to guarantee coverage of prescription drugs 15:53:32 Nelson finishes speech 15:53:43 Ed Bernstein, US Senate Candidate for Nevada approaches podium 15:54:09 Bernstein begins speech 15:55:11 discussion of healthcare and HMO's 15:57:48 Bernstein finishes speech 15:57:58 Mayor Dannel Malloy, of Stamford CT, and Chair of Nat'l Democratic Municipal Officials Conference, begins speech 15:59:28 deficit transformed in to a surplus in past 8 yrs
PA-0721 Digibeta; PA-2319 Beta SP ; PA-0848 Digibeta
Valley Town
Interview with Shimon Peres
Interview with Shimon Peres discussing negotiations and talks with Arafat, attempts for peace and the Israeli attitude towards terrorism., INTERVIEWER:,There was a time when it papered that Yasser Arafat was a suitable partner for peace. What do you think went wrong? How did we come to the point now where we do not have that situation?,01:27:02>>>, SHIMON PERES:,Basically Arafat when he was the head of the Palestine revolution he has had head of the collation of armed groups with him. The moment he became the head of the autonomy we discovered that he's not able to make the shift. To be the head of the revolution is one thing. To be the head of the state is another thing to be the head of the state is another thing. Particularly the softest point was that he didn't understand that by just disarming the Fata, his party, and letting the other party carry arms it undercut his own authority. It's either him controlling them or them controlling him. and they stopped taking orders from them. so even if he would like to cut the terror he couldn't without disarming first the terrorist, the terrorists groups. Now Arafat ah made some contributions in the beginning quite courageous but then he emerged as an extremely weak leader of a state in being. And that's the greatest problem. , INTERVIEWER:,Was this a failure of his character or personality?,02:51:09>>>, SHIMON PERES:,It was, he became a victim of his habits. Because how they ran a revolution. you have this little bit money in brown envelopes. There was no rules and no regulations. you all the time negotiating with the other groups how to act terroristically. You don't have a separation of responsibilities between the legislative, the judicial and the executive. Everything is mixed. Then it's full of conspiracies. Then you have one leader. And all these habits that he's acquired during 30 years of his leadership he couldn't get rid of them. now I talked with him at great lengths about it and I told him look at Bangolia. He was also a head of ah, armed group not only but also in order to achieve independence for the Jewish. The minute he became head of the state he says no room for any other armed group but Daganah, which was the official armed group. And he went as far as ordering to shoot at the ship that brought arms to Israel and killing 20 people Jewish because they didn't take the orders. I told him if you want, if you won't do it you don't have a future. I told many times to Arafat. I think he was suspicious that I'm trying you know to introduce a division between me, him and the other parties because his reply was I shall disarm them politically. In the elections of 1996 after the assignation of Isaac Rabin another wave of terror started. I replaced Rabin as you know. and I did things which were very controversial in the eyes of the Israelis and very important in the eyes of the Palestinians. I handed over 460 villages to the Palestinians. 6 cities. And able to have elections including in Jerusalem. They praised and appreciate. All of a sudden they started to explode ah to explode bombs in ah Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv and in Ashkiranash. Arafat are you crazy with all the reactions what are you doing?,05:21:25>>>, SHIMON PERES, And in the beginning again he tried to convince the Hamas to stop it that you had to stop it without any effect. Finally when he saw that the situation was really becoming very severe he went to fight the Hamas. And he killed 20 of the Hamas leaders. He arrested thousands. He discovered the cashes of arms there are gifts and terror went down but the person who INAUDIBLE was Netanyahu who replaced me. I lost the elections because he didn't do it in time. I lost with 1/3 of a percent. Netanyahu won because Arafat waked up too late., INTERVIEWER:,What did he gain from it from doing all this?,06:07:19>>>, SHIMON PERES:, He didn't gain anything he lost. I was told that he was crying after he heard the results of the elections., INTERVIEWER:,And why do you think he did not accept what was offered to him at Camp David?,06:20:20>>>, SHIMON PERES:, First of all I think Camp David was not conducted with great wisdom. Barak and Arafat sat at the same place for 15 days. And Barak spoke with Arafat for ½ and hour. In the eyes of the Palestinians, not only the Palestinians Palestine is a very matter. And you feel like somebody's snubbing you. It's not very, it's not done in negotiations. In negotiations you don't negotiate just about points. You negotiate about relations. And if you win too much you may loose your partner. That was one thing. And then as far as I'm concerned those negotiating with Arafat some of my friends never take Arafat yes for an answer. I learn not to take his no for an answer. I'm never impressed by his no's. ,07:19:02>>>, SHIMON PERES:, I remember when we were negotiating in Cairo the whole night chaired Mubarak. In the morning when it came to the sign the maps Arafat said I'm not signing. In front of all the television. It was a scandal. It was a shame. And Arafat approached him and they didn't I'm not going to quote how he called him and he told him sign. What happened is Arafat took out the pen and signed. That's another thing. But there is a third point which we shouldn't forget. And I told it to Barak before. Barak demanded that Arafat will announce that after the agreement he will have no claims anymore. The minute (COUGH OFF SCREEN). The minute he says he raised two impossible issues at the time the issue of Jerusalem and the issue of refuges and bought it to the central of the discussion and we knew that we can not reach an agreement. ,08:18:15>>>, SHIMON PERES:, If Arafat should declare he doesn't have anymore claims it means he has to turn his back to the Palestinian refuges. Something that he cannot do. and I thought you don't have to buy from the other party all the dreams and all the demands. Let things hang in there. (COUGH OFF SCREEN). But all told Arafat committed a terrible mistake by rejecting the proposals of Clinton and Barak despite what they have said. And he's not paying the price for this rejection. , INTERVIEWER:,If you could compare him to King Hussein what kind of a peace partner was King Hussein?,09:04:23>>>, SHIMON PERES:, King Hussein wanted peace and he was a responsible negotiator for peace. But here let me say in a wider sense historically speaking. There are 2 ½ million Palestinians here in the territories. There are another 3 ½ million Palestinians that close the door on their leader, on the King on the throne. And they might, some people say you cant not (COUGH OFF SCREEN) make peace with the Palestinians. And I'm asking myself why do we have peace with the Palestinians in trans Jordan in the kingdom of Jordan. You know there are 2 cities close to each other Elad and Dakab maybe a few miles INAUDIBLE. During the 54 years of the existence of the stated of Israel not a single bullet was fired from one city to another city. There's the piece of land between the Red and the Dead Sea almost 120, 130 miles long without fences, without INAUDIBLE, without infiltrators. (COUGH OFF SCREEN) There Jordanians don't permit ah terrorist coming from Jordan into Israel. There are no suicidal bombers. Why is that? those are the same people. Why those 2 ½ million people decided to live peace with us and these 3 ½ million people are in revolt, in terror, in violence, in bitterness. ,10:45:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:, There are 2 differences. One is that in Jordan they have an organized government. Doesn't hang upon the whim of a single man. The have one army not 12 armies like the Palestinian side. They have one treasurer they don't have several treasurers. They have one commander in chief and not many commanders of chief. And I'd say certainly it's not a complete democracy they are far from it but there is separation between their legislative and judicial and ah executive branches. The Palestinians don't have it. So they brought in a INAUDIBLE and they live in a cultic state. There was nobody in charge in spite of all the authorities. The other thing which we have to take into consideration too. We don't dominate any piece of land in Jordan. At the early times of Zionism Jabatinisky said the 2 banks of the Jordan river belongs to us the east and the west. Thanks heavens they gave up half to their program because if you would put settlements across the Jordan river we would create an INAUDIBLE there as well. So we have to correct those 2 mistakes. And I'm speaking objectively. To force the Palestinians to have a reformed government. And to enable us to retreat from the territories., INTERVIEWER:,Of course people have spoken about the settlements here as a problem. If there were no settlements do you believe that there would be peace between Israel and the Palestinians?,12:52:27>>>, SHIMON PERES:, It would help a great deal. It would be very different situation undoubtedly. I use saying you know you can break eggs and make an omelet. But you can not make from omelet eggs again. Too many eggs were broken and now we have to find a solution. The most acute situation clearly is in the Gaza strip. When I was Defense Minister in 1974 the population of Gaza was 350 thousand people. Today there are 1 million 200 thousand people. Almost four times as many. The size of the land is petit. It's 220 miles. It has the density, maybe the most densified piece of land in the world. It's a 5.2 rate of birth. Every 12 births they will double themselves. We have not 7,000 settlers in Gaza. 7,000 vis a vis 1 million 200 thousand. We are forced to close it for security reasons. They are closed so they don't work. They don't work they are very close to suffer starvation. What do we need to see them. and we have an alternative land prepared for those settlers in-between the southern tip of Gaza and Kidisberna which is on the border which Egypt. There's no sense to sit in the middle of this populated and bitter piece of land., INTERVIEWER:,He said that there's a demographic time bomb ticking in Israel and that even if Gaza's returned and even if the West Bank is returned there will still be a problem with the many Palestinians or Israeli Arabs that live here. In the long run is it possible for Israel to be true to its ideals while at the same time remaining a democracy with one person one vote?,15:37:20>>>, SHIMON PERES:, I think yes because you see the rate of birth depends upon the standard of living. The poorer the people are rate of birth is higher. And poor people produce many children and their many children produce more poverty. It's a vicious circle. You know we have here in, among the Palestinians two communities the Muslim and the Christian. The Christian community is well off better than the Muslims. So naturally their rate of birth went down. Because when you're poor you don't care how many children you have. All of them will be hungry. But you are becoming better off you want to invest more in every child than to invest in more children. So this there is while societies are imbalancing themselves. And also what happened is you see the size of a family in previous times say 50 or 100 years ago with 8 or 9 children. In many countries such a large number of children was a product of their medical situation because 3 or 4 passed away. So they would remain with 4 or 5 children. Today with an improved medicine the whole family remains alive. And the family's incapable to feed so many children. So I mean there is logic in demography as well. Geography is immobile. Demography is mobile and it is based not only upon a piece of land but also upon a piece of logic. , INTERVIEWER:,There's also religion, religion influences demography?,17:35:12>>>, SHIMON PERES:, Yes and no because religion too is changing you see. I'm not a great believer in the theory of hunting to an INAUDIBLE crash among civilizations. I'd rather believe there was a crash within every civilization. Namely adaptation of your determined religion with the changing epochs. I mean you can not compare the all you see today with what it was in the medieval time with the inquisition. You can not say to the pope of today he's like the pope in the 15th or 14th century. Now what changed Christianity the Muslims they choose no. they develop in time. you know the Russians were educating their children to be communists. All of a sudden communist fall down. What make it fall down? American intervention the European intervention. Again the intervention of a new age. And now we approach INAUDIBLE and the Muslims they can not remain with old habits in a totally different era. And I believe we shall see changes., , INTERVIEWER:,You are seen as a great statement among people in the United states, among Jewish community and the community at large. And at one time you had a vision as a center in the middle east the center. This dream seems so far away today what would you say to people today in this country and elsewhere who have given up hope for peace?,19:38:28>>>, SHIMON PERES:,That's a INAUDIBLE people they give up, they give they gave up for peace too early. Maybe we are today close to realize this vision more than ever before. I didn't say that Israel will become a center. I thought Israel should have the middle east enter (COUGH OFF SCREEN) the new age. Because today most of the political problems are being solved economically. Europe was living in hatred and blood for a thousand. And 3 years Europe changed in spite of all their memories and all their education. What John Monet did for the future of Europe is much more than napoleon did for INAUDIBLE past. What changed Europe is the economy not the wars. And the same thing goes now for china. If you ask me what is the greatest achievement of high technology I would say china. They're changing the face of china. And they said time has come for the middle east to change as well. To go from the old bitterness of wars about territory to the new horizon of economic, scientific and technological cooperation. I wrote a book it's called the New Middle East. It was criticized very much among the Arabs. One day the president of Egypt invited me and says Shimon time has come that you will listen to your critics. And in short they said look you are trying to dominate the Arab economy under the cover of having a new middle east.,19:20:25>>>, SHIMON PERES: ,I told him gentlemen there is no Arab economy there is Arab poverty. Who wants to govern poverty. What for? Toady poverty is national and affluence is global. And unless you come in the global arena and open up, open your borders, open your skies let the objectivity of science. The promise of technology(COUGH OFF SCREEN) play it's free role then you'll save your children. You'll save the land from becoming desert and your children from becoming beggars. , INTERVIEWER:,Do you see any Arab leader who will be a hypothetical peace partner should that opportunity come?,22:10:01>>>, SHIMON PERES:,The leaders on the horizon are our leaders of yesterdays. The new leaders are unseen you don't know who they were who they are. Would you know who did produce the change in ah Russia it was unseen people. Or who did it china or did it in Europe. Jean Monet was an economist not even a general. And I believe that this is a confrontation not among politicians. And among religions and not upon economies. It is if you want a confrontation between two generations the outgoing generation that refuses to leave the scene and the incoming generation that doesn't have yet enough strength to take over. , INTERVIEWER:,I have no doubt that these people exist but there are young people that see Israel as facing the greatest threat of its survival since the creation of the state. Some blame us, some blame the Arabs in general some don't know what to say but they seem so pessimistic and when we travel it seems like we've gone back into time. the roads are full of holes. The Arabs seemed terrified. They seem passive, resigned and hopeless. It seems we've gone so far can we really see any hope when people feel so threatened on both sides?,24:04:10 SHIMON PERES:,100% around the INAUDIBLE doubt about it. , INTERVIEWER:,About what?,24:12:11>>>, SHIMON PERES:,About the change coming you know usually the future is in minority but it's a winning minority (COUGH OFF SCREEN) because it is the future. In a few weeks or so there will begun, begin the great confrontation between the world of terrorism and the world of INAUDIBLE of peace. In the 20th century the main confrontation was with the Communists, the Nazi's, the Fascists. Each of them has had a country behind them, an army behind them. terrorism is a new phenomena. It's more a protest then ideology without rules, without cords, without merits, without values. And there wild and a dangerous and you can also see that a poor country economically can be a rich country militarily. They can have modern arms and so on and so forth. So the free world doesn't have a choice but to bring an end to terror and terrorism. If communism and ah nazism was in Europe terrorism is in the Middle East. And now you see in the Middle East the great confrontation between people that want to enter a plane and be sure that they will arrive to their target. That they can walk in the street, attend a coffee, drink fresh water. So the changes in the Middle East are by far closer than we think.,25:55:17>>>, SHIMON PERES:, And you will see in the coming 5 to 10 years the great confrontation between these 2 civilizations, if you want, the civilization of terror without respect for human life, without any rational approach, without reference to the changes in our time and forces that will come not only from the outside but also from within the Arab world. Within the Muslim world. Not to do a favor to anybody but to save themselves from the agonies and cost of mistakes. , INTERVIEWER:,Will they have the courage to do so?,26:41:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:,They don't have a choice you know. courage also comes when you don't have a choice. What are they going to do remain backward poor, hated, isolated, a target for attacks and blames. , INTERVIEWER:,Will there be among the Palestinians people who say they don't have a choice?,27:08:10>>>, SHIMON PERES:,Yes few day, few weeks ago the number 2 man in the autonomy Abu Mazaum stood back, stood up and says we have to cut the INAUDIBLE. It's a tragedy. it's a catastrophe for the Palestinian people. And INAUDIBLE and so are many of the people who may say publicly one thing but privately they know exactly what's happening. And they know that the Palestinians are paying an impossible cost. , INTERVIEWER:,Yesterday we spoke with Hamed Qatari who is a Hamas leader. he was one of the 450 people who came back. He and other people that we spoke with said that they will fight this till the last man, woman and child to regain Palestine. I'm sure this is all very familiar to you.,28:20:05>>>, SHIMON PERES:,What, what would you expect them to say. , INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE,28:23:13>>>, SHIMON PERES:,That's normal when there is a confrontation and each party is blaming the other party. People are talking and exaggerated and inflamed language. , INTERVIEWER:,Don't you feel the fundalism is growing stronger?,28:39:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:,I think the fundalism is a problem for the Palestinians not less than for us. They destroy the Palestinian position. If Arafat lost in the eyes of the United States and Europe it's because of them not because of us. Because they paint him in an impossible posture and he doesn't know who to escape., INTERVIEWER:,What message would you give to the American people? The people out there who are yearning for peace as they look at this?,29:21:10>>>, SHIMON PERES:,I mean there is no escape but to fight terror. You can not run away from it. Let's not forget it is not the United States that has initiated the war against terror. It is the terrorist who have initiated the war against the United States. And they don't intend to stop. Mach Magandi once said that when a cat is chasing a mouse there is no sense for a mouse to suggest it is frail because it has nothing to do with strategy it has to do with nature. The United States was forced actually in a fight of self defense. And nobody should see it differently. It's not a fight against a religion or against a nation it's a fight against a menace which brings untold catastrophes to the Palestinians and the Arabs and the Muslims themselves. So I think the United States is right and justified. a combination between a dictator and nuclear is a terrible situation. If Hitler had a nuclear bomb in 1939 I don't know where the world would stand. And eventually all other nations will join the United States. I thought it will be even quicker than that because United States always came to the side of Europe. To the side of all the INAUDIBLE the communism, or generals or whatever it is. And they sacrificed the live of their boys. And they won the war and they didn't keep anything for themselves. Now America is attacked. You may expect that the rest will behave likewise historically. , ,31:07:25>>>, SHIMON PERES:,The second point I want to say is that we are really identified with the United States but differently from all other allies United States has had or is having. We never asked American soldiers to sacrifice their lives to defend Israel. Some of the Europe counties who criticize the United States are having American soldiers defending their land. We never created this situation where an American mother should be worried because her boy's in Israel defending the state of the Jewish. No we shall do it ourselves. The same goals and America helped us which I shall never forget in arms, in political support, in understanding, in financing yes but not in blood and not in dangers. The same goes now for peace. While I'm sure the United States will support the peace process it is for Israel to take the imitative. We shouldn't sit and wait until the Americans take the initiative no. it is our responsibility. We are not running to the United States. United States shouldn't run the process of peace it should support it and they will support it. And I think the sooner the better. Any postponement is a mistake. I believe today the United States is really concerned about the Iranian problem and the terroristic problem. So we shouldn't wait until this problem will be solved. We have to start the peace process on our own. ,32:57:00>>>, SHIMON PERES:,For the simple reason you can not and you shouldn't fight terrorist without fighting terrorism. What I mean by the reasons for terror. You should give hope to the other side not only to yourself. I mean we can't have the Palestinian cooperation they wont be our collaborators. They will be our party if they gonna have reasons for it. They will never serve us. They will never take orders from us. But if they will see that we are really sincere and peaceful and concerned about them as well and we suggest to cut a deal which is fair and reasonable historically and other wise we should be able to make., INTERVIEWER:,But didn't we give them a fair deal?,33:51:19>>>, SHIMON PERES:,Suppose it wasn't successful so what so we shall try again. You don't divorce history. And you don't use disappointment as your teacher. You'll try it maybe we also committed mistakes and I think we did some. Now the problem is not it's not a baseball match to decide who's the winner. What we have is to create a new ground for our living. You see in war there is no alternative to victory. In peace there is no alternative to compromise. And now that 3 politicians nothing works ever. Nobody likes compromises but you can not have a coexistence without compromise., INTERVIEWER:,You'll try again but INAUDIBLE?,34:48:09>>>, SHIMON PERES:,No no I'm told you, I told you. I see the 3 ½ million people Palestinians who live across the river and are tied to old lessons and there were times also with them we were at war. We were at war with Egypt. We were at war with Jordan. There were times that we mistook. There were times they mistook. Well we can not make mistake and excuse., INTERVIEWER:,That's on their side and now you have more than 200 thousand settlers. How will the country survive this civically?,35:24:20>>>, SHIMON PERES:,well there were some proposals. There were 2 or 3 proposals . one is concentrate all the settlements on a small piece of land in the West Bank. 3 or 4 percent and have a small, give the Palestinians 2 or 3 percent, 4 percent somewhere else. That's one solution. Another solution can be as there are Arabs living under non Arab government INAUDIBLE living under non Jewish government. This is different from war. You can not say lets have peace which is an extension of war. Doesn't make sense. Peace is a departure not an extension., INTERVIEWER:,Everything you say is so logical and beautiful why can't we have your vision implemented?,36:25:07>>>, SHIMON PERES:,People are angry and disappointed for good reasons. There is terror and violence and mistrust and dissolutions whatever you want. I agree. But if I can suggest a lesson I learned in my life that you can not a, achieve anything which is big without big disappointments and disillusions and troubles. And you think it's the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. And to do something big requires a great effort, a great determination. And face the disillusions with the same determination that you're facing the INAUDIBLE. And that's what we have to do. ,22:37:50>>>, B-Roll pictures (no sound) , END OF INTERVIEW
Establishing shot of a small town store front business called "Bill's Doors & Hardware" featuring a brick exterior, awning and Texas flag waving in the breeze.
1980s NEWS
INTERVIEW CONTINUES: Pete Hamil statistics show that the average victim of black crime is a black woman about 21 years old. Black on Black crime is one of the great horrible facts of our existence right now. The numbers of crimes of blacks against whites is minuscule. When you look at the the population patterns of the city, it's really black on black crime. What what we're talking about here, though, is these are these young, very young kids question is what was that young woman doing in the park? It's what were they doing in the park. And if they were in the park, what motivated them to do this was breaks down almost every idea even on the street level, and I grew up on the streets, you know, in my neighborhood, if 10 People took turns on her with an unconscious woman's body, the gangsters would come and get us. This is unheard of behavior among New Yorkers. Now the opportunity is here, for a whole number of people, Dr. Pugh would probably have a better list, certainly than I would have to really study these kids, because finding out about these kids can't be limited to the criminal justice system. Cops are not equipped to find out what form these kids, defense lawyers and prosecutors are not equipped or interested in trying to find out what form them. But we must find out what is shaping these kids what those factors are, whether it's drugs or television of society, or the values that we're imparting another party if we don't, the 21st century in New York City is going to be a nightmare. It's bad enough right now. Clementine Pugh And Pete, I agree with you on that. I think it's very important to point out that the Kerner Commission Report indicted white racism. And since that point, we have been focusing on the victims. Nobody studies the people who prepare to weight the oppression. And I'm saying that if we're going to look at it, we have to look at it in a multifaceted, at least a dualistic way, we can't look only at one side and not at the other. AllRight? Pete Hamil Oh, I agree with that Clementine Pugh the reason that the society is myopic, and a historical and tends to put things aside until it moves into the majority culture is an important thing for white people to look at. Pete Hamil We also have to find out what the black middle class is doing when in terms of its responsibilities in this problem. Clementine Pugh But that's when you go with that when you go African on us rather than American. It is not a unique problem that has to be solved by the black middle class. And then you wrote an article Pete that I wanted to get to you on before we No no, the notion is that that problem has been created by the black middle class I'm not saying that oh, that's a black middle class has some special responsibility. They certainly have a responsibility Robert Lipsyte Let's stop. Tony Bouza, you're we're laughing at this, Anthony Bouza Why don't you guys spend a few minutes at a welfare hotel and watch the next group of monsters being raised and see what we're doing to them. Robert Lipsyte Now, when you keep using the word monsters, it seems like you're being provocative. We're talking about human beings, that something is being done to in this society. They weren't monsters when they were born. Were they? Anthony Bouza Well, I don't know. I think I think we a fellow in Chicago started trying to work with black kids and went to schools and then he decided that was too late. And then he went to Headstart program, and now he's working with pregnant teenage black young women. So maybe we have to think about prenatal care. The reality is our society is is a dualistic society and the overclass is sending its children to the ivy League's and the manufacturing excesses the overclass is consigning blacks to positions of such want and deprivation and unemployment and lack of education and opportunity, that it is manufacturing monsters and black males in America Robert Lipsyte You keep using that word. But but whatever we are, Tony, Tony, whenever we are, you know, whatever class, we're all imprisoned in this city together. You know, we had a we had a young man on the show Monday night who had gone wilding and talked about his dream, if he had money and the opportunity to get out of town. He doesn't want to live here anymore. I think a lot of people don't want to live here anymore. Clementine Pugh I think that's absolutely okay. I also think that the people who live in the inner cities, and there is an underclass living in the inner city, unless we are blind, we know that. But those people, many of them don't say I'm going home to the ghetto. I mean, they would like to see themselves living in a viable community, their problems are overwhelming, the problems are dismissed by and large. And I think it is significant to look at the kind of attention that this particular event is getting. Because it did happen to a white woman. I am not saying that to be racist. But I think you have to acknowledge the perception among many in the black community who would say that there are rapes committed upon black women almost every day, as I sit here, that would not get this kind of attention. Now I am I saying that it's not as heinous because it happened to a white woman. I'm not saying Robert Lipsyte I understand exactly what you're saying. What you are saying is that the white media jumped on it, because of what they saw is the vulnerability that the white man can no longer protect the white woman. And that was the great theory Pete Hamil I think, if it had been an exact duplicate of a black woman, a young black woman who had worked like hell gone to college had a job and a, you know, Salomon Brothers Robert Lipsyte We're out of time. And I hope I hope you're right. Pete Hamil And the horrendousness of this crime, it would have been in the Robert Lipsyte Thank you very much. Pete Hamil. Dr. Pugh, Chief Anthony Bouza. Thank you. Thank you very much for being with us.
Pilot - memorial
JOHN OGANOWSKI WAS AT THE HELM OF AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11, ONE OF THE HIJACKED SEPTEMBER 11TH PLANES. NOW THERE'S AN EFFORT IN HIS HOMETOWN OF DRACUT, MASSACHUSETTS, TO HONOR HIS MEMORY.
Saeb Erekat Interview
01:37:54:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Can you say your name? ,01:38:00:00>>>SAEB ERAKAT:My name? My name is Saeb Erakat. [SPELLS NAME] ,01:38:05:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What is your preferred title?,01:38:15:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: I am a Cabinet Minister on the Palestinian Authority. And when we have negotiations, I lead the negotiations. ,01:38:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Where are you from? ,01:38:40:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: I am a Palestinian. I was born in the City of Jericho, in 1955. That's where I did my - all my studies. And later on I did my Bachelors and Masters in ____ City University, in International Relations, and I went for my PhD in England, school of Peace Studies, and ____ Resolution. I am married, four children, two daughters, and two boys. I also wrote books on the - mostly on the Israeli conflict. And my real life is as a University Professor in the Political Science Department, at _____ University in _____. ,01:39:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You wrote a book on Jewish immigration to Palestine. ,01:39:05:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: That's right. ,01:39:15:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Can you tell a little bit about (Inaudible)? ,01:39:18:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: I wrote a book on the Jewish immigration to Palestine. Not in terms of how many came from Russia, and how many came from The Soviet Union, or how many came from Romania, or so on. But here is a notion of people who built their premise, their idea, in 1897. Hertzel said, let's give a land with no people, to a people with no land. And the people with no land, you are referring to the Jews, and the land with no people - you are referring to Palestine. And that year, when he said that, there were 650,000 Palestinians. And -they deny their existence. They deny the existence of my grandfathers and great grandfathers. And then -in 1917, when balfour declaration was issued, and stated to create a homeland for the Jews. And without undermining the civil and religious right of the non-Jewish minorities in Palestine, we were referred to now, we (Inaudible) nonexistence stage into being, but now 92% of Palestinian - of Palestine was Palestinians - mothers and Christians, and were referred to as the minorities. And the 8% of the population, the Jews were granted in accordance with the British logic, the homeland, while they shifted to treat us, as the minorities were (Inaudible). ,The third stage, we are thinking ____, began in 1948 when Israel was created, and one million Palestinians became refugees. We became to be known as the refugee-problem. The ____ refugee problem, the ____ refugee problem. And this stage continues until 1965, when nobody realized that between 1948 and 1965, four out of each ten Palestinian born in refugee camps, died before reaching the age of one. When Palestinians took to arms, to struggle and to say we have a problem, then we were - they branded us as terrorists. ,01:41:53:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: And then the fifth stage was, when they signed an agreement in Oslo, with us, or in Washington, saying - on that first day, saying the Palestinian people. So the whole thing of, of the book before Oslo was the transition of a people who denied our existence, and then who used demography, and immigration to build a nation. And then, they occupied the West Bank in Gaza, in 67'. The annual population growth of the Gaza Strip, today, is 5.2%, annually, which is the highest on earth. And the West Bank, at 4, 4%, annually. So what's the logic? What's their logic? If they attribute to build in Israel, for Jews, as they say, and then bring all these immigrants to (Inaudible) factor, and then they keep occupying three - now today we have 3.6 million Palestinians. And this population growth, annually, which is almost 4.5%., ,The question I ask, in that book, and the questions are - the questions asked, to maintain an occupation that is consistent with the idea that led to the birth of Israel. How do they manage this? And is it really -only a concept of a nation for the Jewish people, that they want? Or, why do they keep occupying me? What do they want from me? We can't - anybody who knows, to calculate one plus one equals two, will calculate that this average growth rate, annually, that, in plenty of time, the whole demographic balance between the Mediterranean and the River of Jordan, will be to my favor. Why are there big settlements next to my home, Jericho - town of Jericho? Why do they build settlements in Ramalah and Hebron? What are these people -who transfer the ____ to be just one, and turned out into being a land broker? (Inaudible). , And all, you know, the conclusion of my book was that it's, it's political blindness, arrogance of power, extremism, and that, you know, I realize that there were very ugly phenomenon's, in the growth on the rise in this Israeli society, toward racism, toward fascism. Because such diseases, nobody is immune to being a racist, whether black or white, or colored, or Moslem, or Christian, or Jew. And we're always trying to find a way to explain it. The question, I brought to them in that book, what are you going to do with me? [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,01:45:23:50:00>>>>>>INTERVIEWER: You said the ____ society is racist - have gone toward racism and fascism. (Inaudible) Palestinian society? ,01:45:24:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Well, the Palestinian -I'm exerting every possible ____, at this stage. Where we tend to be the last people on earth to be under occupation. Well, Israel is the last country on earth that possesses _____ occupying power. Where today are they speaking to me, in the West Bank and Gaza? 50% of Palestinian children are malnutritioned. 45% of Palestinian women - they're pregnant and they are facing anemia - anemic. And we have been pushed toward a human catastrophe, where our towns, villages and refugee camps have been turned into big prisons. ,And this human catastrophe is not happening because we were hit by floods or earthquake, or volcanoes. It's human made catastrophe. And the Israeli government made the catastrophe ____, something called closure and siege, where, where people, you know, like in - take my constituents in Jericho, who are normal people. They have seven patients who needed chemotherapy for their cancer. They died last year because we could not get them to hospitals in Jerusalem, East Jerusalem. We have three people who need kidney dialysis, and (Inaudible). They died. We could not leave them there, because of Israeli road blocks. ,So, with all this circumstances, people tend to be angry. People tend to hate. People tend to say, sometimes, bad things about Jews. We stand up and we urge them, please, don't, don't, don't let them push you towards that ____ of hating people simply because they are a different religion. And saying, openly, there is Judaism is a god religion. We must expect - we have no problem with Jews, as Jews. We have a political problem with Israeli politicians who are politically blind, who are pushing their people towards racism and fascism, and don't let them push you to these ____. ,01:47:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You were a man of peace, you are part founder of the peace camp. Where is the peace? Where is the peace camp today, and why (Inaudible)? ,01:47:45:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: The peace camp, the Palestinian peace camp, today, is a shattered peace camp. And I would tell you that it's - to be honest with you, also there's an Israeli peace camp - a shattered peace camp. We are mirror image of each other. Israelies and Palestinians. ,But let me tell you the following: I'm one of those who has been to life after peace. I have negotiated with Israelis during the Barak government; President Clinton, President Arafat, on a ____ status agreement. We have drafted three chapters of the treaty, me and my Israeli colleagues, and we came a long way. We know exactly that peace is doable, on all issues; the Jerusalem settlements border refugees. ,01:48:55:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: And I don't act like a prophet to tell you that peace will come. The peace will happen between Palestinians and Israelis. And it's not going to happen because I wish it to happen, because the uniqueness of our conflict with the Israelis, is that it will never be played in accordance with a zero sum game. Sharon may want to play it in accordance with a zero sum game. Netanyahu [PH] may way to play it in accordance with a zero sum game. Palestinian extremists may want to play it in accordance with a zero sum game. The uniqueness, the uniqueness of this conflict, it's either two winners, or two losers. Losers we have been, for the last fifty years, because we sought the path of violence, wars, and military solution which will never provide answers. And the only way to be a winner is going to be through a meaningful peace process, that will end the Israeli occupation, and establish a Palestinian State, next to Israel, on the June 4, 67' borders. ,I did not wake up one morning, and neither did President Arafat, wake up one morning and felt his conscious was aching (Inaudible) Israelis, that he organized the State of Israel. And by the way, neither did the Israelis wake up one morning, and felt their conscious was aching that they wanted to organize the PLO, for the Palestinian people. It is a need. ,Today, when I seek peace, with Israelis, I'm not doing the Israelis a favor - the favor is for my people, my daughters. It's for me. We need peace. And today, at this darkest hour, of Palestinians and Israelis, I can tell you that the majority of Palestinians and Israelis want nothing more than the revival of hope, in their minds, that peace is doable. A revival for many, for the peace process, that would end Israel occupation, because that would be the surest way to peace in the security for all. ,01:50:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Thank you sir. You speak about the majority of Palestinians. Does the Palestinian Authority, the ____ Minister, does it speak for all the factions of the Palestinian Movement, or just for ____? ,01:50:40:00>>>SAED EREKAT: No, we speak for every Palestinian. I was - we were elected by the Palestinian people. It's true that I got 58% of the work in this constituency against seven candidates. But that's elections. We are a democratically elected Palestinian Authority. And we, as Palestinians, we have an overloaded wagon. We really do. We've gone through transformations that's so difficult. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish and tell the difference, and educate our people about the difference between political pluralism - meaning having parties, having different opinions, having a position, or authority pluralism; (Inaudible) into their own hands, and achieve this through guns, or through violence, through whatever. And we're telling them, we must tolerate and build a nation, build on political pluralism. But authority pluralism must not be tolerated under any circumstances, under any religious ____, under any reason. Nothing justifies authority pluralism, because it's the ____ destruction. ,WE have, we have another (Inaudible) because sometimes we tell people, okay you can't come to (Inaudible) in Jericho. And (Inaudible) against me, against my policies, against me as a peace maker, which they do. Okay? But when you stand up and start advocating to hate Jews, or to kill Jews, simply because they are Jews, that is not freedom of expression. That's incitement, and that should be punishable by law. That's what we're doing, that's (Inaudible). ,Now, you take all of this, Palestinian Authority, that is not a Palestinian State, we are not a state, ___ government that is a conflict of limitation. I cannot leave my hometown, Jericho, unless a military commander allow me. The farmers cannot leave Jericho unless the military commanders would allow them. The occupation continued. The settlements continued. Confiscation of land continued. And we were up against all of these things. And then all of the continuation of the settlement activity, the confiscation of land, (Inaudible) because this is the ammunition for our extremists - Palestinian extremists who are killing, but Israelis don't want peace. ,01:53:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: I read in an Israeli newspaper, ____ that there is actually a civil war in the Palestinian community. That it is actually not the Palestinian Authority speaking for ____. The Palestinian Authority is in a civil war against Hamas, against the Jihad, and they're not a unified nation speaking for all. Are you in a civil war with Hamas and Jihad? ,01:53:58:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: No. No. I don't think we have a civil war. I don't think we, we will have a civil war. But, as I said, we are telling all Palestinian factions that authority pluralism will not be tolerated, cannot be tolerated. And there will be one authority, and that is the elected authority. Because our way of life, when a Palestinian State established, and mark my words, they're gonna be free democratic nation, accountable, transparent, belief in human rights, and the universal values of human rights. ,Now, I'm not saying that we have magic solutions, or magic states. We're being challenged by certain parties, by certain extremists who want to take the law into their own hands. Who want to exercise their rights as an authority. By that, because they're not a state. And today, the Sharon government has done nothing but destroy us. (Inaudible) here in Jericho. I am directed to help the people of Jericho. Me and my constituent. Farmers come to me to help them give their citrus or vegetables to the Mullah Market. I can't help them . They have to go to an Israeli officer, the ____ in the entrance of Jericho, and get the permission from him. If a Palestinian wants to leave to a university, he has to seek the permission of Israelis. If a Palestinian sick person wants to go to a hospital, or go to a ____, or get whatever. But Sharon is making me irrelevant, on the hour, every hour, here. ,01:55:45:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What about the - the ____ Martyrs Brigade. They're supposed to be connected to ____. Are they connected to a Palestinian Authority, or are they enemies of the Palestinian Authority? What's the position on the (Inaudible)? ,01:55:51:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Well, the position of all Palestinians, and the ____ Martyr Brigades, or all other military groups, the Palestinian Authority's position is that we do not tolerate anybody taking the matters into their own hands, period. Whether it's from this faction, or that faction. There is one authority that's been calling to stop all attacks, to stop suicide bombing, to stop everything, and I think people should listen to. But now, you know, we're an authority by name. Sharon is destroying this ability. Sharon destroyed our ability. Sharon destroyed our command centers, our communication center, our police stations, our prisons. And, you know, I understand that if I'm accountable, I have to be irrelevant. But if you're making me irrelevant, don't make me accountable. ,So that's the - Sharon's game. Sharon is destroying us on the hour, every hour. But when something goes wrong, because his policies of ____ would always fail, and he will not bring any peace or security Israelis through military means. If a suicide bombing happens, while he is in full control of our towns, villages and refugee camps, and his tanks ____, he points his finger at Arafat, and asks to blame us. ,01:57:10:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Do you oppose - what was your response to President Bush's call for a regime change in June, this past year in 2002? ,01:57:21:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Well, we responded to him. I held a press conference here, and we had the Palestinian Authority. And we announced that we would convene presidential and ministerial elections, so the Palestinian people can choose, electoraly, their leader. And I thanked President Bush. The Palestinians have elected this leadership, in free and fair elections, that was helped and sponsored by their American Administration, and by the European union, by the way. And let Palestinians choose their leader, through one mean, only. And that is democracy and elections. We don't have an army, we don't have a navy, we don't have an air force. ,So, if President Bush thinks we can't have a coup, it's not possible. We don't have the means. You know, Israel is the strongest - one of the strongest army on earth. We have been facing the most disproportionate use of force in the history of mankind. So, (Inaudible) Arafat, us, every Palestinian, we want to hold presidential and administrative elections, so Palestinians can choose their leader. But I don't think that is ____ to President Bush, or to Prime Minister Sharon, that they could care less. The Palestinians are ruled by the Boy Scouts, or Atilah the Hun, that's a pretext. I believe this president of the United States, has decided to take the cost free road, of slugging Palestinians, of blaming Palestinians, because it doesn't cost him anything. And I believe this administration has the same gift from the peace process and the end result, is more Israeli and Palestinian blood, and that is the truth, and that's the unfortunate truth. ,01:59:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What do you think has gone most wrong about the (Inaudible) in the past two years? What have been the most successful, and the biggest mistakes? ,01:59:05:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Well I, I don't think that we can find answers, in terms of trying to site mistakes, or trying to find answers, or trying to find good things or bad things. It's very expensive. Palestinians, my job, and my belief is to save lives, of Israelis and Palestinians. Listen, I'm a father of four. It breaks my heart to see an Israeli child die, or killed in a suicide bombing, here, which I condemn. And which we, in the Palestinian Authority and President Arafat condemn. And we have always said (Inaudible) target civilians, over Israelis or Palestinians. But when people want to give to us, a solution, solve the problem, they usually handle the roots of the problem. And the roots of the problem, here, is occupation. ,When the Oslo Accords were signed, Palestinians, in the streets of Ramalah, and streets of Jericho, and the streets of Gaza, said goodbye to Israeli soldiers who were leaving. Because they believed that we can achieve peace through negotiations. Ten years, after Oslo, Palestinians are still telling us now, you promised us. We're still under occupation. Settlements are expanding. Where is the peace you promised us? ,02:00:40:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You talk about the opposition to the militancy of the extremists. But they are still doing so much, the ____ Martyr Brigade continues ____ very popular, as the - these militants, have they gotten away from you, are they no longer led by the ____? ,02:00:54:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: I don't know exactly what's, what's happening. I don't have an answer, to be honest with you. But I know that -listen, if Sharon manages to achieve his end game, and that is to destroy the Palestinian Authority, and to kill President Arafat, the alternative to this Palestinian Authority, and to President Arafat, it's gonna be chaos. There's gonna be anarchy. , In my hometown, there will be militias, and warlords dividing the city between themselves, and the first thing they will do is to kill people like me. And this will be the situation in all Palestinian towns and villages, and refugee camps. And I'm sure that, at that point, Sharon and ____ will stand on American TV to say, we want to make peace, we want to make a concession for peace, but we don't have partners. You don't expect us to negotiate with militias and warlords and Taliban and ____. That's their end game. Their end game is to let things reach the point of chaos. I believe what we're suffering from, Palestinians and Israelis, are the near seeds that _____ planted between 1996 and 99', when he was the Prime Minister. , ,02:02:05:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You mentioned Taliban. Americans often make comparisons. Since September 11th, they feel the price of terrorism. And for them, perhaps, the September 11th - the suicide bombing of a _____ Martyr Brigade looks like the Taliban, the Osama Bin Laden attack. It looks like the same thing. That may be the root of (Inaudible). ,02:02:10:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Well I - first of all, Israel, since September 11th, I believe - Sharon and the Israeli government, and Israeli politicians, have tried to hijack September 11th. I look at it - as Palestinians we condemn the attacks on the Twin Towers, and in Washington, were the strongest possible attack. Palestinians in Gaza, and Jericho, and Ramala, stood in lines to donate blood to the American victims, held vigils. And yet, we are - to the common Palestinian, you know, occupation is the highest form of terrorism. And we suffer from the Israeli state of terrorism. ,02:03:31:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: And it's ironic that, you know, at a time when the Americans go to Afghanistan, we see these Americans and British in Afghanistan, building schools, building water pipes, building roads. How can the Israelis compare themselves with Americans and, and those in Afghanistan, who are building a nation, while they lay army in Jericho, in Ramala, in Gaza, in ____, and destroying the water system; the roads, the sidewalks, the schools. So, how can Americans not see the difference? Americans were not out there fighting the Afghanis, or Taliban, or Al Qaeda. These people did this horrible, murderous attack on innocent Americans working in New York and in Washington. , So how can Israel get away with trying to equate between the two situations? By simply using the fact that my middle name is Mohammad. And that's very dangerous. That is a dangerous thing. It's another phenomena of Bin Laden, that Israel is trying to use now - (Inaudible) a Moslem, and that's very dangerous. That's racism. And that should stop. Islam is not a religion that advocates bombings or suicide bombings, or killings of civilians, or ___. And, as Palestinians, we stood up and told Bin Laden ____ Arafat, stood up on record and told him, don't use your injustices for our just cause. That's our position. ,02:05:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You are a man of peace and negotiation, not a man of ____. Camp David, [TONE] (Inaudible) opportunity for negotiations. What went wrong at Camp David? Why did (Inaudible)? What happened with (Inaudible) Bill Clinton - ,02:05:36:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Look, I know that difference. My word against Netanyahu's word, or Barak's word, in the commerce and the senate. I don't stand a chance. I don't stand a chance. And what happened in Camp David, I was there. I believe no Palestinians and Israelis have come, ____ in Camp David. Many stones were, were, were unturned. And it's not, you know, our resolution about doctor's salaries or nurse's salaries. These issues that we're negotiating are what make Israelis and Palestinians ____ settlements, borders, refugees, Jerusalem. We're the product of history, religion, and so on. So, we came a long way. ,And then after Camp, Camp David, I sat with ______ for fifty-seven ____, under Camp David in Jerusalem, West Jerusalem. In which we came a long, long, long way, the Clint - the Clinton parameters of December 23rd, which I received from President Clinton (Inaudible). And then I went back with President Arafat, to see President Clinton, no January 2nd, 2001, just eighteen days before he left the White House. And President Arafat told him, I accept your barometers, with the following clarifications - the same answer that Barak gave. ____ saw President Clinton in Tel Aviv, Citizen Clinton, and I said to him, Mr. President, why did you say that we rejected your promises? You know what Arafat told you, yes? He said, I was told if I don't say this, there will not be a Peace Camp in Israel. , So, we came a long way. We have drafted three chapters of the permanent status treaty. And the on - and we agreed, I agreed with my Israeli colleagues that by 13th of April, 2001, the treaty would be concluded. And what happened was, in February they elected Sharon. Sharon became the Prime Minister, in March 2001, and he suspended all negotiations. That is the truth. That's what happened. , ,02:07:447:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Have things become better, since that time of Camp David, has the intifada advanced things for the Palestinian people, and if so, how? ,02:07:53:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Don't take the intifada as, ah, advanced or put things backward. The Intifada is a Palestinian message. When Palestinians - so, you know, the continuation of settlements. So, Sharon and the holiest of the holy, for the Moslems in (Inaudible), okay? They came to the realization that the peace camp way of negotiations had failed. So the intifada came as a message that you will not accept occupation. We will continue asking for our freedom and liberty, which you failed to give us through negotiations. Which YOU - we were told by Baker, personally told by Jim Baker, (Inaudible) that they stand next to those who stand next to peace. That once we recognize the State of Israel, once we accept two for two, things will change and we will have a two-step solution. And for ten years, Palestinians have seen the continuation of settlements, confiscation of land, demolition of homes, and they were asking people like me, you promised us. We're supposed to (Inaudible)? He told us once (Inaudible) Israel, we will have our own state. You brought us nothing but more settlements. ,So now, that's the cause for the intifada. It's not because the Palestinians dreamt - Palestinians dream of their liberty and freedom, and they will seek it. In my world, I tell Palestinians, we gonna get our freedom, and our liberty, our independence, through a meaningful peace process, that will lead to the ending of the Israel occupation. Others, others are saying to me, we tried to for ten years. You brought us no peace, you brought us no security. So the real challenge, today, is to believe that peace can walk. , ,02:09:50:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Do you support the road map of the quartet; President Bush and the (Inaudible)? ,02:10:00:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: We support it, yes. We are on record, and President Arafat wrote letters to the court, saying that we (Inaudible) President. , ,02:10:15:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What are - what parts of - what magic ingredients would be the final, absolute thing that Israel would provide? It would be an end of conflict for now, and forever, no more struggles, no more war? ,02:10:28:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: End the occupation. End the occupation, and to have agreement of Israel withdraw to the June 4, 67' borders, and a just solution to the refugee problem. It's not, it's not that we need top reinvent the wheel. These things are specified in resolutions 242, and 238, which we agreed with Israelis, and signed with Israelis that the objective of negotiations would lead to the limitation of 242 and 238, meaning, ending the Israeli occupation, Israel will withdraw, a just solution to the refugee problem. , ,02:10:50:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Is there room for a negotiation of the June 4th, 67's borders? ,02:10:55:00>>>SAEB EREKAT:Meaning? , ,01:11:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Is there any room to negotiate, in other words - ,02:11:05:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: [OVERLAP] Meaning - , ,02:11:10:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Exactly, Barak claims to have offered 100% of the equivalent territory, but not necessarily that exact same territory. ,02:11:18:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Well I don't think Barak was saying the truth, when he said that. As a matter of fact, I have never received anything from Barak. And I challenge him to show it to you. As a matter of fact, all the ideas that came out, accepting 67', and then we have a swap of land in size and value, was our idea. Was OUR idea. The fact that we came and said, we accept a state with limited arms, and we accept American and European troops in the state, it was our idea. That we accepted three monitoring station for Israel, in the State of Palestine, and that we accepted to have Israel control over the Jewish Quarters in our city of East Jerusalem, that was OUR idea. And I challenge Barak to show -what he offered the Palestinians. ,Barak came to Camp David without a government. Sharanski [PH] had left him, ____ had left him, _____ was about to leave, and this is the truth. But I told you, we are not running a charitable organization, if it's my word against Barak's word, in the congress and the senate, and for that matter in American media, I don't stand a chance. But ignoring the fact, or denying the fact don't mean they don't exist. This is the fact of what happened in the negotiations. , ,02:12:45:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Are you saying you ____ all these causes that broke down the trust and (Inaudible) negotiations that led to the intifada? So that means that what had ___ Ariel Sharon to visit to the Temple Mount, caused - ,02:12:55:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: No I think, I think Ariel Sharon's visit to the Harim Sharif [PH] ____, was intended to destroy the peace process. Sharon knew exactly what he was doing. Sharon knew that exists historical moment when negotiations are not producing, when settlements are continuing, when Palestinians are suffering, when Israelis are doubting. It is the right time for him to do this visit and destroy everything. And I remember President Arafat - in Barak's home, I was with him, begging Barak not to allow Sharon to go to Temple Mount, to the Harim Sharif, and to a ____ Mosque. And Sharon knew exactly that if he did this visit, he would destroy everything. He knew what he was doing. , ,02:13:50:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You mentioned June 4th, you mentioned end of occupation, you did not say anything about refugees. (Inaudible) ,02:14:00:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: [OVERLAP]I said - I said, a just, a just solution to the refugee problem, and I'm not going to negotiate any of the issues, or where we stand in terms of our positions on - on TV. I leave this to the negotiating table. , ,02:14:10:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Which Israeli - and you've met many of them, which Israeli would be an appropriate peace maker, who really strikes you (Inaudible) that can be somebody that -,02:14:18:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: [OVERLAP] To be honest with you, I have all the respect of the democratic trust of Israelis. And I'm willing to negotiate with any Israeli - leader the Israelis elect. Because I want to make peace with all Israelis, not for this party or that party in Israel. And whoever runs Israel is the choice of Israelis, not my business. I'm not gonna (Inaudible) an Israeli negotiator. , ,02:15:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Do you understand the young Palestinian - what it takes to carry out a suicide bombing, inside Israel? Do you understand what - ,02:15:10:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: It gives me a pain in the heart, because I really want Palestinians, and I want my children to be the doctors, the lawyers, the poets, the journalists, and not the suicide bombers. I believe we must revive hope in the minds of Palestinians. We must tell our children, that yes, you'll be able to attend university, yes you will have jobs, yes you will have your freedom, yes you'll have your independence. Yes, this occupation will end. That's what we need to get our answers. And we hope we can ____. , ,02:15:25:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What do you see as the -what do you see as the vision in the future? Do you predict that one day peace will come?,02:15:37:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Absolutely. Listen, I think the dire situation out there -this human catastrophe that's facing Palestinians, and the situation that the Israelis are living under is just one thing. I want the Israelis and Palestinians to think that what's happening out there is because we did not make peace. And the absence of peace, this is _____. So I'm sure that Palestinians and Israelis will make peace. Because peace is doable. There will be a Palestinian State beside the State of Israel, on the June 4th, 67' border. ,But the real challenge is, how many lives, how many Israeli lives and Palestinian lives must go before we, we come back to the negotiating table? What does Sharon wait for? What is he waiting for? How many lives? How many Palestinians and Israelis must die before people like Sharon must be convinced that there is not - there will never be a ____ solution to this problem. , ,02:16:50:00>>>INTERVIEWER: On those lines, just to follow up, what do you say Palestinians have the right to do in the resistance, until the occupation (Inaudible)? ,02:16:57:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: Well, I believe that Palestinians have the right to stand up against occupation. I believe the Palestinians must stand up for their liberty and freedom. And I tell the Palestinians that we can do, and get our liberty and freedom through a meaningful peace process. And I really hope that today, even though I believe, I'm in a very small minority. I believe that we can revive hope in the minds of Palestinians, that peace is doable, and that we can reach our freedom and independence through a meaningful peace process. We need the help of those who believe in peace. I could care less if someone is pro Palestinian, or someone is pro Israeli in the United States. My world is divided between those who are pro peace, and those who are against peace. And there are those who are pro peace, on both sides, that need the help of every decent human being. ,02:18:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Can you help to really stop the terrorism? ,02:18:05:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: We are trying our best. We are trying our best. But - have you been to our towns in Jeanine and Nablith [PH], and the _____, recently? Where is the Palestinian Authority? Is there a Palestinian Authority? We are being destroyed by Sharon, on the hour, every hour. , ,02:18:15:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Do you feel like the Israelis really all feel like Sharon is an extremist? ,02:18:22:00>>>SAEB EREKAT: [OVERLAP] Usually, you know, nations do export technology, export oil, export diamonds, export food. Mr. Sharon is a master at exporting fear, in his own people. And he _____. I think it's ironic about the fact that he brought them no peace, no security, and yet people will vote him as the next - as the Prime Minister of Israel. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,[END OF INTERVIEW]
Iconic small town scene with weathered red barn and small home in the background.