1980s NEWS
INTERVIEW:
Robert Lipsyte:
It's your magazine, of course, that pioneered so called outing which I believe was a Time magazine yes phrase and not yours. And the implication is that famous gay people and famous lesbians have the obligation to step forward and announce their sexuality.
Gabriel Rotello
Well, this is a brand new definition of the gay and lesbian community which essentially says that we now want to view ourselves as a legitimate minority, such as blacks or Latinos, into which a person is born into which a person owes a certain amount of allegiance and that the minimum amount of allegiance that a famous role model gay or lesbian person owes the community is to declare themselves and come out of the closet, we think it's very important and that will help gay and lesbian people and help to eradicate homophobia in society at large,
Robert Lipsyte
Richard Goldstein Do you think that gay people do have that obligation and that they are part of an ethnic group?
Richard Goldstein
No, I don't think gay people are an ethnic group. I think gay people are a minority. And the minority that's formed by a common experience, that experience is the experience of stigma. And that's where the problem with this begins for me. On the one hand, I enjoy it, I enjoy it mightily, and it corresponds to the libidinal part of my nature. To see it thrown up in the face as a big it's like Axl Rose that they're role models slept together. On the other hand, though, another part of my personality really worries about some fundamental losses that could occur along with whatever gains might occur, loss of autonomy, loss of the individual as the test of our politics, the individual making the decision for him or herself. And the fact that though, the people who are doing this at out week are gay liberationists, another group is doing it as well. But we're bigots. And another group still in the media are paying off people, the 30 pieces of silver to come out and do this as well. And the way and the lack of control over this troubles me a great deal.
Robert Lipsyte
Ann Northrop what was your experience as an openly gay person that cbs news,
Ann Northrop
good and bad? I never had any direct problems. No one ever came up and called me a dike to my face or anything. I'm sure there were comments behind my back. I've received regular promotions and achieved some position of power and responsibility. I felt there was a ceiling on my career, but that could be me personally.
Robert Lipsyte
How did you feel about other gay and lesbian people at CBS who were closeted?
Ann Northrop
I was it made me very sad. Richard talks about a potential loss of autonomy. I think they've already lost autonomy. I don't think anyone who is in the closet is happy. I don't think it is possible to be in the closet and be happy. I have been in the closet, I've been out of the closet. To me, it is fundamentally impossible to be happy, free and safe.
Robert Lipsyte
Does Gabriel have a right to pull you out of the closet?
Ann Northrop
That depends on whether you define me as a public person or a private person. We have a system in this country and worldwide of celebrity journalism. And the rules for celebrity journalism is that celebrities public people do not have a right to complete privacy, because they are public figures. They give up some of that and as long as we have that system and journalism as a whole treats. heterosexual celebrities is fair game in their private lives. I think the problem is a double standard and hypocrisy. I think it is only being homophobic to not write about the sexual orientation of public figures who are lesbian or gay.
Robert Lipsyte
Floyd Abrams, how does this sit with your feelings about free expression and privacy
Floyd Abrams
Well, they conflict in this area. I mean, we generally, as a matter of First Amendment law, protect anyone who tells the truth about anything. And we're talking about truth telling, we also generally protect the press against people who are really in the public eye celebrities and others, particularly when you tell the truth about them. On the other hand, many states, not New York have a body of law, which makes it a tort and actionable wrong to say things about people, which are true, but terribly, terribly intrusive into their privacy. And the legal issue, which is going to have to be addressed and I suspect will be addressed someday, not in New York, is whether this is deemed private enough secret enough, intimate enough, the sort of thing, which shouldn't be disclosed, according to the courts.
Robert Lipsyte
what's your thought? Do you think that somebody who was exposed in an out week and not very many people have let's, I mean, that this is been really more of a theoretical club, than it's been anything real? Because you know, all of us really want to know who everybody is? You think that anybody's got a case?
Floyd Abrams
Well, I don't want to stir people up to sue you. But I have to tell you that I think there may really be a case out there, on w
Robert Lipsyte
undefined if it's true.
Floyd Abrams
Yeah, if it's true, there are places where where someone can go to court and say, You said something about me, which even though it is true, is so private, and so intimate, that you shouldn't be allowed to say it. And many states California, for example, recognize that tort that claim in court. My own view, is deeply conflicted about this, I'm very troubled, by you're deciding for yourself, I think you've probably got the first amendment right to do it. But I'm troubled personally, but you're deciding for yourself, that people who choose to remain in the closet may not do so. Because in your view, it is for the greater good of the gay community as a whole that they not do so. And I would have the same feeling. If the pro choice movement, for example, were to start listing people who had abortions. I mean, I think there are some things which are inherently private in the sense that people, if they choose not to describe it about themselves, shouldn't in the ordinary course at least have it described about them