8 p.m.: [April 16, 2023 broadcast]
A2 / France 2
Radar and communications operations aboard USS Essex (CVA-9) aircraft carrier, during Lebanon crisis, in 1958.
Aboard the USS Essex (CVA-9) in the Mediterranean Sea, off Lebanon, during the crisis in 1958. Radar men on watch monitoring scopes. U.S. Navy sailors aboard ship speak into mikes of their headsets. Room is dimly lit. Teletype machines operation in the communication's center. Two junior officers and an enlisted man walk into the room, look at the message received and tear the message from the machine. They leave quickly. Location: Mediterranean Sea. Date: July 1958.
Interview with Dore Gold pt 1
Interview with Ambassador Dore Gold discusses post 9/11 negotiations and the Camp David agreements and non-agreements, discussion about early Christianity, Jews and the Arabs protection. 00:00:57:00>>> INTERVIEWER:,Tell us your name, and spell it please? DORE GOLD:,Ambassador Dore Gold. That's D-o-r-e, G-o-l-d. INTERVIEWER:,Where were you from? DORE GOLD:,I was born in the State of Connecticut. I lived in Israel since the mid 1970's. INTERVIEWER:,What would you say is the number one, or one of the number one misconceptions in the west, about the Arab-Israeli conflict? DORE GOLD:,Well clearly, since September 11th, the Palestinians and their supporters in the United Nations, have been stressing that the reason, the motivation, for the Palestinian uprising, which they called Intifada, is Israel's occupation, or so-called occupation, of Palestinian territories, as they say. There was probably no more baseless a charge, that can be utilized, or that has been utilized in the International Community. You have to understand that those who state that what motivates the attacks on Israelis is occupation, those who make that claim are, perhaps, building on the amnesia of the international community. Because, after all, what were the Oslo Agreements about, from 1993? I was an Oslo negotiator. I was involved in the ____ Agreement, and in the Wye Negotiations, in 1998. And what the Oslo Agreements were, and what we ultimately implemented, was a withdrawal of the Israeli military government over the Palestinians. And replacing that with a Palestinian government, called the Palestinian authority, under Yasser Arafat. So, as a result of the Oslo Agreements, which Israel implemented in good faith, in the 1990's, the Palestinians were not under military occupation. Did they have a Palestinian state? No. Were they under military occupation? No. And they feel those who were using this argument of occupation, to justify violence, are simply trying to find an excuse for murderous terrorism against Israeli civilians. But it's a baseless argument. And it is simply used repetitive - repeatedly. It is simply used repeatedly, in places like the United Nations Security Council, or the United Nations General Assembly, to justify the murder of innocent Israeli civilians. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] INTERVIEWER:,Can you talk a little bit about what does and what does not just - what kind of grievances might justify terror? Can terror ever be justified? 00:04:07:00>>> DORE GOLD: I think, after September 11th, it's become completely clear to most countries, in the international community, today, that there is no possible justification for the murder of innocent civilians. There is no grievance that can possibly justify taking young people and having them strap dynamite to themselves, and sending them to - into a crowded Israeli cafe, full of Israeli teenagers, and murdering thirty innocent Israelis. No economic deprivation, no political claim, and certainly not this baseless charge of occupation, can possibly used to give a context or explanation for the kind of terrible tragedy that, that act leads to. INTERVIEWER:,You talked about the occupation charge, about the Palestinian people. There is also a charge that Israel is occupying Palestinian land. Can you use the phrase, 'Palestinian lands'? DORE GOLD:,This is part of the language that developed in the United Nations. The United Nations, unfortunately, is many times a, a place not where international laws are established, but where international politics is pursued. And therefore, much of the normal culture in the UN, doesn't even reflect other fundamental UN resolutions. It's clear, from UN Security Council Resolution 242, which is really the foundation of the Arab-Israeli peace process. IT was the basis of the Camp David Agreement with Egypt. IT was the basis of the peace agreement with Jordan. It was even the basis of the Oslo Agreement. It is clear, from that resolution 242, that Israel is never expected to withdraw, lock, stock and barrel, from The West Bank in Gaza Strip. That Israel had rights in those territories because it was attacked from those territories, in the 1967 Six Day War. And therefore, those territories, rather than being occupied territories, which belonged to somebody else, are reality disputed territories, where Israel has claims, and an Arab party may have claims. In this case, the Palestinians. INTERVIEWER:,The occupation grievance is not really there. And nothing could justify such (Inaudible). What is, what kind of ideological motivation might be behind this attack against Israel, as well as Israeli policy? 00:06:43:00>>> DORE GOLD:, Well, look, Israel had the opportunity to test the intentions of the Palestinians. Most of the international community was convinced that the Palestinians simply wanted their own state, within the territory of the West Bank, in Gaza Strip. And that's what they were struggling for. And therefore, many observers looked at this conflict through the lenses of decolonization. Thinking that if Israel would just turn it over, the West Bank in Gaza Strip, or large parts of it, for a Palestinian state, the Arab-Israel conflict would end, the Middle East crisis would be terminated, and the entire Middle Eastern order would snap into place. And all of the problems in the United States, and the European union in the Middle East would end. , But clearly that wasn't true. Because once Israel went to Camp David, and ____ Prime Minister Ehud Barak, basically offered Yasser Arafat, virtually all of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and even was willing to divide Jerusalem, something which most Israeli's, in fact a vast majority of Israeli's objected. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] Once Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, our former Prime Minister, went to Camp David, offered the Palestinians virtually all the West Bank, in Gaza Strip, was willing to even contemplate the division of Jerusalem, which the vast majority of Israelis objected to, and Yasser Arafat turned him down, it became clear to everybody who followed this issue that the question here is not over a limited piece of territory - the West Bank and Gaza, and a little bit of Jerusalem - Mr. Arafat and his supporters have much greater ambitions that involved Israel, itself. INTERVIEWER:,What kind of ideology might be behind the larger Islamic movement, that includes - the Islamic movement that includes maybe some (Inaudible)? What really motivated - why do they hate Israel so much? What is it about Israel in a nation of western democracy, and (Inaudible) American democracy in the Middle East, that might be motivating this hatred to resist all Israeli concessions? 00:09:05:00>>> DORE GOLD:,Well, I just concluded a book called Hatred's Kingdom, which viewed the impact of Wajabi Islam, on the entire Middle East. Certainly, since 1973, when Saudi Arabia began earning huge oil income from elevated oil prices, the Saudi's were able to export their very narrow version of Islam to many countries of the Middle East. To places like Pakistan, which gave birth to the Taliban regime, and certainly had an impact on many of the Muslin brotherhood organizations, including Hamas. And those organizations, first of all, do not view Christians and Jews, as legitimate, fellow, monotheists, who shared the same basic fate, as many Muslims. Classical Islam, while perhaps putting Christians and Jews in a kind of second class citizenship, requiring them to pay discriminatory taxes like the _____ and the _____, nonetheless were willing to protect Jews and Christians, as people of the book. Many of these pro lwahabi organizations even removed that status of people of the book, from Christians and Jews, and described them as _____, as polytheists, who basically didn't have a right to live. So, much of this evil wind from Arabia, has reached the shores of the Eastern Mediterranean, and has effected many ideologs in the Hamas movement, in the Islamic Jihad Movement, both of which had received financial support from Saudi Arabia. And this undoubtedly has had an impact on Palestinian politics. But there is also a fundamental problem with de fatah organization as well. INTERVIEWER:,What is the fundamental problem? 00:11:03:00>>> DORE GOLD:, Well, after Camp David, when we wanted to understand what was motivating Yasser Arafat, Israeli analysts, much more carefully monitored the statements within the Fatah Movement itself. For example the chief idealog of the Fatah Movement, is a man by the name of Fatah Jabash [PH]. No relationship to George Jabash. And he frequently appeared in various Palestinian towns and cities, and gave speeches in the name of Yasser Arafat. How do we know that? Because those speeches were replicated in full textual form, in ____, in ____ Al-Jadida [PH}, both of which are official newspapers of the Palestinian authority. And in those sermons that he gave in Palestinian cities, in Arafat's name, Fatah Jabash made it clear that the Palestinian, the Palestinian Fatah leadership still adhered to the stages strategy to 1974. And that is, establish a Palestinian state, and any bit of liberated Palestine that you can, and from there continue the conflict to dismantle the State of Israel. If that, indeed, was the motivation of Yasser Arafat, then that explains a great deal of why the Camp David Summit, under President Clinton, failed. And why Mr. Arafat could never bring himself to sign an agreement with Israel that talked about the termination of conflict. INTERVIEWER:,The Fatah is the means for the faction of the - of Yasser Arafat's faction of the Palestinian authority, only the people don't know it. So, it can be said for the ___ Fatah, is that Yasser Arafat's mainstream faction believes, or it clearly believes in a (Inaudible). 00:12:52:00>>>, DORE GOLD:,What happened after the failed Camp David Summit, of July of 2000, was that many Israelis more carefully monitored the statements of the Fatah movement. When Israel went into the Oslo Agreement, it was understood that mainstream movements, within the PLO, like the Fatah Movement, had changed. That perhaps they were adapting a strategy very similar to Nelson Mandela in South Africa, who set aside the arms struggle, and instead showed the diplomatic process. In fact, many in Israel, in the 1990's, assumed that there was a huge struggle transpiring in the Arab world, between the old forces of Arab Nationalism, which the Fatah component of the PLO represented among the Palestinians, and the new rising forces of Islamic fundamentalism, like the Hamas, and the Islamic Jihad. It was assumed that, just as the Nationalist forces in Algeria, or Egypt, were fighting against Islamic Fundamentalists, so too Yasser Arafat, leading the Fatah Movement, and its elements in the PLO, would fight against Hamas and Islamic Jihad. ,But of course what really happened in the 1990's, was that the Fatah Movement colluded with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, didn't fight them, allowed them to grow, permitted suicide bombings against the State of Israel, and ultimately joined the war against Israel when Arafat initiated the second Intifada in September of 2000, against the State of Israel. So, that rather than the Fatah Movement and the PLO being this moderate force, which the world could get behind to bring an end to the Arab-Israel conflict, they were, in fact, radical allies of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. And, in a certain sense, it's not a surprise. Because anybody who knows the biographies of the leaders of the Fatah Movement, such as Yasser Arafat or his military leader, Abu Jihad, knows that many of these men were either sympathizers or activists in the famous Egyptian Moslem Brotherhood, which, of course, gave rise to many of the radical movements across the Middle East with the backing of Saudi money. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] INTERVIEWER:,There was some talk today, among the Palestinian (Inaudible) warning, while Camp David failed, they were about to reach an agreement in Taba, months later. And the agreements were about to be signed, and the Palestinians approved of them, and the Israelis said (Inaudible), and then there were new elections and Sharon came to power, so it never happened. So actually, it wasn't the Palestinians, but Israel, who dropped the ball? 00:15:52:00>>> DORE GOLD:,Well there is a myth that Palestinian negotiators are interested in putting forward. That Israel and the PLO, on the verge of a final status agreement at Taba, which is, of course the Egyptian resort town, near Alat [PH] - [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] There is a rumor that - there is a rumor that exists, that Palestinian negotiators love to put forward, that Israel, and the PLO, on the verge of a permanent status agreement at Taba, the resort town where negotiations were held after the failed Camp David Summit. The idea that Israel and Palestinians could - were just inches away from an agreement, is simply untrue. If you look at every category, every issue that was raised in those negotiations, borders, Jerusalem, refugees, security arrangements, what you find is that the gap between the Israeli position - the most forthcoming Israeli position, and the Palestinian position, is basically unbridgeable. And I think it's a complete misrepresentation of history. In fact, the best source about this are the notes of the European union envoy, who was at the talks, Ambassador Mortinos [PH]. And if you carefully examine his notes, which were reported in the press, you will see the gaps between the parties were unbridgeable. There was no agreement that was simply prevented by Israeli elections. INTERVIEWER:,If there had been agreements, would there have been a silent counter offer continually offered, instead of resorting to the ____ Intifada, that (Inaudible) for example, Palestinian. Is the failure - is there proof that the Palestinian authority might lie in the fact that, instead of offering a counter offer, they launched this ____ Intifada. This war of terror. 00;17:50:00>>> DORE GOLD: Well, what is clear is that the Palestinians -let me start again. Let's look at the sequence of events. July of 2000, is the failed Camp David Summit with President Clinton. The negotiations in Taba, which the Palestinians claim almost led to an agreement, but, in fact, the gaps were invisible, that occurs in December of 2000, January 2001. But the Palestinians launched their violence against Israel in September of 2000, before those Taba negotiations even take place. If the Palestinians were serious about reaching a peaceful agreement with Israel, they would never have adopted violence. Now, there are Palestinians who argue that, that violence erupted because Prime Minister Sharon, then head of the opposition, went for a stroll on the Temple Mount, where members (Inaudible) permitted to visit and walk. But we know, from the statements of Palestinian leaders, like Imad Farugi [PH], the Communications Minister of the Palestinian Authority, that the entire Intifada of Yasser Arafat, from September 2000, was pre-planned. We know that Mawan Barguti [PH] was trying to recruit Israeli Arabs, prior to the outbreak of the Intifada, and therefore it is clear to us that Yasser Arafat elected a strategy of violence, because he had no intention of reaching a final agreement with Israel . He wanted to negotiate with Israel while Israel was bleeding. And what Ariel Sharon said was, that those rules, we will not adhere to. INTERVIEWER: These facts, these damning facts, did it expose, did it really expose the Palestinians? Or, are they also a tragedy for those individual Palestinians who might have hoped for a better leadership and a better future? DORE GOLD:,I was a negotiator with many Palestinians, and I have to say, I sense that there were Palestinians who really wanted to reach an agreement, who thought about the future of the Palestinian people, and believed that, ultimately, by creating a relation of peace with Israel, they could get a better future for their people as well. Unfortunately, that wasn't the dominant perspective of Yasser Arafat, and those who were loyal to him. And much time is lost, much blood has been spilled, it's been a tragedy for many Israelis who have died, people I know. As well as for the Palestinians. I think there is a lesson of all this, this entire period. It's that you have to establish firm rules, and insist that the Palestinian side, in the future, adhere to those rules, in any negotiation. The most cardinal rule, that has to become fixed in stone, is that no one use violence to advance their negotiating agenda. The moment the Pal - any Palestinian negotiator in the future who ____ the violence, the negotiations must end. Because once they do that, it becomes clear that their intention isn't peace, but perpetual conflict. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] INTERVIEWER:,There is a myth that Israel is an apartide state, with unequal status, for ____ and Jews, whether in the West Bank, or in Israel proper. How would you count this charge that Israel is called the academic weapon - apartide state? 00:21:22:00>>> DORE GOLD:,Well, first of all, Israel has granted citizenship to Israeli Arabs, who amount to about 20% of the Israeli population. They have full voting rights, they attend all universities. There are elements of the Arabic speaking community like the Drews [PH], who don't regard themselves as Arabs, who are also drafting into the Israeli Army. We have better volunteers than the Israeli Army, as well, but we don't force the Arabs - the Arab population - to serve in the army. We don't draft them, because we don't want to put them in a position where they have to shoot at their brothers. But in fact Israel is a country which is granted huge (let me start again.) ,Israel is a country which has sought to make sure that its Arab population has equal rights to the Israeli-Jewish population, even though Israel is a country that's been under siege for fifty years, by a coalition of Arab states. INTERVIEWER:, Religious freedom, is an important value for Israel, and how is it viewed as being different now that Israel controls lands, as opposed to centuries before? DORE GOLD:,Well, in fact, if you look historically at what has happened to the holy sites of the great religions, (excuse me, let me start again). [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] In fact, if you look historically, at what has happened to the holy sites of the great religions, under different people's sovereignty, what you find is that only under the sovereignty of Israel has, for example, Jerusalem been open to all faiths. The Jewish people were forcibly removed from Jerusalem when the Romans conquered Jerusalem in 70A.D., and destroyed the second temple. And for at least five hundred years Jews were forbidden to live in Jerusalem. They began coming back, ironically, with the first Muslim conquest, and later, once the crusaders were defeated by _____. But already, in 1864, under the Ottoman Empire, the Jewish people recovered their majority in Jerusalem. That was at the time of the American Civil War. It was well before the arrival of the British Empire, to the Middle East. And yet (let me start that again) - So, the Jewish people recovered their majority in Jerusalem. Already, in 1864, at the time of the American Civil War, well before the arrival of the British to the Middle East. Yet it was a struggle for the Jewish people to assure themselves full rights, and of access to the holy sites. ,In fact, in 1948, when the Jordanian Army invaded the nation State of Israel, and conquered Jerusalem, with the help of British officers, about 50 synagogues, in the old city of Jerusalem, many of them going back to the 13th Century, were either destroyed or desecrated. Jews were robbed of access to the Western Wall, their great holy site. The Christian population in Jerusalem suffered tremendously in the population of Christians living in Jerusalem, diminished from about 25,000 to about 11 or 12,000 by 1967. Only when Israel liberated the old city of Jerusalem, was it truly open to all faiths. Was the Armenian quarter of the old city able to prosper and thrive in the Armenian church, build a new seminary. ,00:24:57:00>>>,Only when Israel was in control, did Christians begin to return to Jerusalem. Only when Israel was in control, were Jews able to pray at the Western Wall, and at their various holy sites. During the period of this Intifada that began in September of 2000, what Israelis witnessed was that holy sites, that were turned over to be protected by the Palestinian authority, were, again, abused, were again sacked. For example, Joseph's Tomb, in Nabwith [PH], the Sharam Israel [PH] Synagogue, an ancient Synagogue in Jericho. Rachel's Tomb, on the border between Bethlehem and Jerusalem, has constantly been under sniper fire by Mr. Arafat's Tanzim [PH] gunmen. And finally, the Palestinian rocks, that's the Religious Endowments Ministry, which took over for the Jordanians on the Temple Mount, has been involved in an illegal excavation, destroying artifacts going back to The Crusades, and even to the second and first temples. So, if Israelis have learned anything from the last two years, it's that only under the sovereignty of Israel, can Jerusalem truly be protected, and be a citizen that's open to all things. INTERVIEWER:,The ancient Palestinian negotiators that you felt, genuinely, wanted peace, do you believe that there are Palestinian individuals out there who just want the house, and the garage, and the chicken in every pot, sort of just - who, themselves, do not share in either Wajabism or the Islamists, or the corruption in the phase plans of leadership? 00:26:47:00>>> DORE GOLD:,Well, I think what's very hard in the west, for people to understand, is that political movements are not necessarily motivated by just - that what's very hard in the west, to understand, many times, is that political movements are not organized to address the every day needs of people. That there are many times a movement that is established on the basis of aggressive ideologies. You either have the nationalist and socialist ideologies, the constituent elements of the PLO, like the Fatah Movement, like the PFLP Socialist group, like the DFLP, also, a Pro-Marxist group. Or you have the highly ideologically charged Hamas and Islamic Jihad, who come out of these pro lobby time or - backgrounds and organizations. There are Palestinians who want normal lives. You know, one time I spent weeks in Jordan, with Jordanian Military people, and they would point to some of the tremendous construction and advances inside of Jordan, and whispered to me the Palestinians were behind them. And they would talk about the fact that the Palestinians contributed to the development of Persian Golf countries like Kuwait, the United ____, and other places. 00:28:14:00>>> The Palestinians are extraordinarily talented. They are the most educated component of the Arab World in Arab societies. And with - in the context of a political leadership that believes in freedom and democracy, it can lead to great progress for their people. But if they're trapped by their ideologies of yesterday, you know, sort of from that world of, of Fidel Castro, and Brechnev [PH], and all those who spawned the left wing organizations, as well as the ideologies of ,the ____ movements, those who have supported the Muslim brotherhood and come out of the extremist pro lobby wings, then the Palestinians will not progress. , And I think what is important, at this point, is that the world community establish a model of freedom of democracy, which has worked so well in other regions of the world, for the Middle East as well, so the Palestinians will have a political context, in which their talents can be expressed. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] INTERVIEWER:,The concept of refugees, the UN defines the Palestinian refugees in a certain way, and using a definition that is now regarded, the numbers always fluctuate - millions of Palestinians, a million and a half refugees, has this concept been misrepresented and distorted to bloat the numbers and create a _____? 00:29:54:00>>> DORE GOLD:,I think most - in - let me start again. I think in most conflicts, the UN has attempted to resolve refugee issues by finding homes for refugees, by bringing about normalized refugees. The Arab states who have been at war with Israel have been interested in keeping the refugee issue alive, refusing to grant normalcy for Palestinian refugees in Lebanon or in Syria, through a lesser extent than Jordan. Jordan has been better on this issue. And using the refugee issue as a grievance to maintain the war against the State of Israel. In order to help refugees move on and build a better life, what the international community should do is help invest in the various countries where Palestinian refugees are, so they can establish a new life in new homes. And we can move on beyond this issue. ,There are many wars that have existed since 1945, and many refugees in Afghanistan, in Iran, in Southeast Asia and elsewhere, and although there is a political interest in focusing on the ref - on the Palestinian refugees, there is a need to address this refugee issue, as other refugee issues have been looked at. INTERVIEWER: Have there been Jewish refugees? 00:31:11:00>>> DORE GOLD:,Well, of course, one of the big ironies of the Arab-Israel conflict, is that while the world speaks about Palestinian refugees all the time, most in the international community completely ignore the hundreds of thousands, in fact millions of refugees that were kicked out of the Arab world, from Morocco to Iraq, who lost their property, who lost their way of life, and were accepted by the State of Israel. ,Israel was a poor country when it first was established. And yet it, it found homes and established a new life for hundred's and thousands of Jewish refugees in the Arab world. If one talks about the refugee issue, one should speak about the Palestinian refugees, but one should also speak about the Jewish refugees from Arab countries. INTERVIEWER: The British mandate ____, is there any way the British handled things that inappropriately shaped the conflict, today? DORE GOLD:, Well, in fact, you know, there were attempts by Arabs and Jews to begin to create a political context for resolving their differences. At the time of - right after the first World War, we had the Faza [PH] Whitesman [PH] Agreement, in which the man, who would go on to become the first president of Israel, Jyam [PH] Whitesman, basically stated, look, you the Arab side, you King Faza, representing the Hashamite House, want a great Arab state. You've been promised that by the British. It would cover all of Arabia, it would cover Syria, Iraq, it would cover parts of the Jordanian territory. And if you want this great Arab state, we, the Zionist Movement, will support it. If we can have our Jewish homeland in British mandatory Palestinian. And, at that time, Faza, representing the Hashamite House, which covered this whole area, agreed. And basically said, well, if you have a little Jewish state in the corner of the Middle East, that's worth supporting, so, that we have our great Arab state. 00:33:21:00>>> But what did the British do? They gave away Syria and Lebanon to the French. They basically allowed the Saudis to kick the Hashamites out of Arabia, and be without their main patrimony in the Hijas [PHJ]. And, as a result, the conflict became much more complicated. But the conflict might have been prevented and resolved by effective diplomacy back in 1919, and 1920. INTERVIEWER:,Any thoughts about British ____ of immigration to change the balance? , DORE GOLD:,One of the worst periods in Jewish history is, of course, in the 1930's, when the rise of Nazi power was on the horizon, and Jewish lives were threatened. And the British Empire, at the time, imposed the White Paper of 1939, which limited Jewish immigration into Palestine. At the same time, there was a huge amount of Arab immigration into Palestine, from Egypt, from Syria, from as far away as Iraq, and you created a kind of asymmetry. The Jews were kept out of British mandatory Palestine, but the Arab stream didn't because they saw this area as an area of tremendous economic success, and economic opportunity and employment. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,[TAPE BREAK]
Argentina Shopping
Price comparison phone app may help shoppers cut their grocery bills
CHILES TOURS EOC (07/31/1996)
STATE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OFFICIALS WILL BE TRACKING THE NEXT BIG STORM FROM THE COMFORT OF A BRAND NEW STATE OF THE ART FACILITY. GOVERNOR LAWTON CHILES IS TOURING THE NEW DIGS TODAY ...
Reporting AIDS Patients to Their Workplace
After well-liked teacher Normand Bergeron dies from AIDs, various health officials state that the health department is not obligated to report those afflicted with the disease to their workplace.
JOHN KING USA 7PM (CLEAN)
19:08:59:28 JKUSA: Weiner Panel 07491521 - clean air 06/01/2011 Topic: Weiner and crisis communication. Chris Lehane Former Special Asst. Counsel to Pres. Clinton Crisis Communications Expert Terry Ho ...
United States, 1960s: communications equipment on table
United States, 1960s: communications equipment on table. People around the world wait for news about Cuba crisis.
Bridgeman Images Details
The Man Who Might Have Been: An Inquiry into the Life and Death of Herbert Norman
Black and white newsreel with sound titled "Suez Crisis Eased by Conference": PAN of British military vehicles being stockpiled, MCU of British soldiers talking on the radio, various shots of tanks in the streets and cannons being loaded onto ships. MS of Indian ambassador getting off plane in Cairo.
CHINA CRISIS
LEE CHEUK YAN COVER FOOTAGE / AUDIO CHANNEL TWO FOR KOPPEL COMMUNICATIONS / KCI
DN-LB-720 Beta SP
MISC. RECONNAISSANCE DURING CUBAN CRISIS
DOMINICAN REP:TALKS TO END VENEZUELAN CRISIS RESUMING
--SUPERS--\nFriday\nSanto Domingo, Dominican Republic\nJanuary 12, 2018\n\nJorge Rodríguez\nMinister of Communication and Culture Of Venezuela\n\n --LEAD IN--\nON SATURDAY, TALKS RESUME IN THE DOMINI ...
Catapult crew hooks bridle to aircraft aboard USS Essex (CVA-9) in Mediterranean Sea off Lebanon during 1958 crisis.
Operations aboard USS Essex (CVA-9) during the Lebanon crisis, in 1958. View beneath wing of an aircraft on catapult, as the catapult crew hooks bridle to aircraft. Officer leaves the ship's message center. Hatchway leads into message center. Two junior officers in the communication center. Teletype machines printing out messages aboard ship. Views beneath wing of jet as one of the catapult crew hooks it up to the catapult. Location: Vietnam. Date: July 1958.
CHINA CRISIS
COVER FTG FOR A STORY ON THE POLITICAL CRISIS IN CHINA. 00:00:42:29 cu's of a China Daily headline reading, City ban on foreign coverage reiterated. Shots of various articles in Chinese. CI: COMMUNICATIONS: NEWSPAPERS, CHINA.
E.Macron: How to regain trust?
A2 / France 2
MEEX Greece Turkey
Greece wants to streamline cross border communication process
VTM-61AZ Beta SP; DN-RLB-131 Beta SP
APOLLO 13: HOUSTON, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM
Interview with Izzeldin Abuelaish
Interview with Izzeldin Abuelaish, a Palestinian doctor working in the Israeli hospital, Soroka. Describes early life and interactions with Israelis and how he became a doctor, thoughts of peace process.,00:00:30>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,My name is Izzeldin Abuelaish. Izzeldin is the first name. I-z-z-e-l-d-i-n. My family name is Abuelaish, A-b-u-e-l-a-i-s-h. I am obstetrician and gynecologist. , INTERVIEWER:,Tell me about how you - you wanted to become a doctor your whole life? , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I didn't expect - suspect - or expect to be a doctor. [BACKGROUND NOISE] , INTERVIEWER:,Where did you grow up? ,00:01:16IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I was born, raised, and am still living in the Givalia Refugee Camp, of the Gaza Strip. , INTERVIEWER:,Describe your childhood, growing up in Givalia [PH]. , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Givalia Camp is one of the refugee camps in the Gaza Strip, where most of the refugees are living there. Three quarters of the Palestinian people in - [BACKGROUND NOISE] [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , INTERVIEWER:,Tell me about your childhood, growing up in Gaza. ,00:02:05>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,As most of the Palestinian children, it was very difficult a childhood. I was grown in the teeming poverty and deprivation, as most of the Palestinian refugees, in the Givalia refugee camp, to a family who were driven out from their homeland in one of the Palestinian village, which is called _____. They were one of the most wealthy families there. They had their own land (Inaudible). After 1948 they were driven out of the Givalia Refugee Camp, and they settled there. So, I was born to that family. As most of the Palestinian children, I was going to the schools, to the United Nations schools, to study there just to be away from my home because there is no space for our home, to stay there. In the afternoon I had to rush to find some work, to help my family. I was the eldest of my brothers and sisters. To find some financial support in that situation. All of the time -[OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , INTERVIEWER:,You say they were driven out of their homeland? , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Yes. , INTERVIEWER:,Can you just tell us more about that? , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,In 1948 they were living there. They have my father - grandfather - , INTERVIEWER:,In 1948 - ,00:04:35>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Before 1948, because this is their own village which is called ____. And my father - my grandfather was the Mukhtar [PH], who was the head of that village, and they owned a big land, which was about, for our family alone, they have about six thousand donam. And they were the most wealthy and - , INTERVIEWER:,In America, we don't know what a donam [PH] means. What is it like, an acre, a half an acre? Approximately? ,00:05:08>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,You are asking me certain questions that I can't respond to you Isidore. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] Before 1948, my family, all of my family - ____ family, were living peacefully, in a good situation, in their own village, running their life with a piece of land, which is about 6,000 donam. And the donam is about 1,000 square meters. They were most - the most - one of the most wealthy families there. And after 1948, when they were driven out from their own land, they came to Gaza to live there as Palestinian - most of the Palestinian refugees who leaved their own land. And they were settled in the Givalia Refugee Camp, as refugees, hoping that it will not last long - their return to their homeland. Even my grandfather, he was thinking he would return after one or two weeks. He bought land from other people at that time, aiming that he would get it once he would be back, within the next two or three weeks. These two or three weeks lasted 54 years. They were waiting with all of these victims, and the sacrifice from both sides that we are witnessing, now. , INTERVIEWER:,As a young child, you, you worked with a Jewish family when you were growing up? ,00:07:44>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I was growing in the - I was growing up in the Givalia camp, just around - going to the school just for - to be away from my home, as I said to you, because we aren't having space in our home, to be away from my mother, to return - do the work, and in the afternoon, running to outside to go to find some work, to help my family, because I am the eldest of my brothers and sisters. And in the summer holidays, I had to search for other works. And I remember, after the six days war it's the first time in my life to see the Israelis would occupy the Gaza Strip, and they came with the(Inaudible) literally force, and they asked the Palestinian people from the camp to be collected in one place. And I thought, at that time, it's the end of the world. For me to find about 50,000 people surrounded by tanks, by well-armed soldiers, and after a time they're supposed to leave. And they started to make a curfew. In 1970, when I went the first time to work in an Israeli - with Israelis, to feed a chicken. I stayed with that family 40 days, when I was fourteen years old, to work there with that family - and with that - from Yemen - a Jewish family, from Yemen - away from my family. , INTERVIEWER:,How did you find it? This was the first time you met, you say you got to know, a Jewish Israeli family. Tell me about your relationship with the Jewish family. ,00:09:15>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,As a child, I was working, to do my work in the morning, to wake up, to run to the fields, to, to do this physical works. (Inaudible) the mother of the Jewish family, she was caring for me; giving me food, taking care of a small child who was away from his family. So they were very lovely, very kind to me, as a small child who was working with them. And even, I remember, later on in 19, I worked that time - it was 1970, and I went to study medicine and to do that, until 1994. After finishing and participating in a medical meeting in Jerusalem, I said to myself, I have to pass and to visit that family. I was thinking of that family. What is going on with them? But they knew what is going on with me. That they know that this, the child is a doctor, he's doing well, he is a successful one. I passed by, on the way to that village, which is called moshav hodaya to visit and I knocked by the door. The daughter, the granddaughter of the mother, she opened the door for me and asking me, she is now twenty-four years old. At that time, in 1970, she was newly born, just one week. Once I knock the door, she came out with my car Palestinian plate. She thought that I'm a businessman, because her father is doing some business with Palestinians. What do you need? It was her. I want your father to meet him. She introduced me, and I came inside. I sat on the sofa, there, until her father, he camed. He shaked my hand, welcome, what kind of business are you doing? He doesn't know that this is Izzeldine. Just once I pronounced that I'm Izzeldine, the child who worked here. He jumped and hugged me. And the first question I asked, what about your mother-and your father? Because they are now, maybe, 70, 75 years old. I was thinking of them, if they were living, doing well, what's going - and he took me to visit all of his sisters, his mother and his father. They were fine. I felt that I visited my family after a long time. , INTERVIEWER:,Tell me about your studies. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:11:40>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,The good thing, really, after working with that family, I got four hundred liras And we were living in a house. One week later I returned home, we have grape tree in our home in the camp. We had to depend on ourself. My mother doesn't allow anyone to cut from it until Izzeldin comes. We started to eat from that. I entered my home. My father, at that time, was sick. After forty days, for me, a small child, fourteen years old, to be away from his family, to return home it's something unbelievable. But one week later, by night, after twelve o'clock, knocking on our doors, the military, Israeli forces want to destroy our home, to widen the streets in the Givalia Camp. AT that time, I think the Prime Minister, Sharon, was the General for the Gaza Strip, at that time. And they destroyed all of the home to widen them for the Israeli forces to pass freely. And for me, this is the most painful thing alive, that I have ever tasted. And I don't want to see anyone homeless. ,00:13:02,The worst thing in the world, to find someone homeless, or to, to make him homeless. It was a very difficult time, and sudden. But that house, for me, it's the palace that we live. Though it hasn't anything, they are asking us to empty our home. What do we have in our home? We have a few mattresses, something, because we were six brothers sleeping, one beside each - the other - on those mattresses, covered with -one cover, that's all. And in the morning, we were forced to cut that grape tree, and to call it the grave (?), and it was destroyed, within eight hours, after twelve o'clock the second morning. At eight o'clock, that house and all of the houses in that street were destroyed. It was very painful. But I think god's mercy was there, with those four hundred liras, and with others that my mother said we succeeded to buy another small house. Close to - because they were intending even to us to go to Lareish [PH], in Egypt. What to go - what to do in Lareish? It's not our place. We want to stay in the place where we are living. And even, we didn't get any compensation, we didn't get anything from that because we refused to go to Lareish. , INTERVIEWER:,So you were - , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,And we are living now in the home that we share - I shared from my work in that. , INTERVIEWER:,So you have your - you had anger against the Israelis, for destroying your home and taking, taking your home? ,00:14:43>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I feel angry, even for anyone. That's what I told you. The worse thing in the world, that I don't want anyone to taste it, or to feel it everywhere. It's very painful. Whether from Palestinians, Jewish, Christian, anyone in the world that I don't want to see, anyone homeless or to destroy. There is nothing. It's a crises, a crisis really for anyone to be homeless. That's what I feel for me, and once I tasted it, I don't want anyone to taste. And I have to fight to help those even not to feel that thing, everywhere, whether Palestinians, Jewish, Christian, everywhere in the world. , INTERVIEWER:,Did that have any influence on your decision to become a physician? ,00:15:31>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,No, because I didn't decide it - or intended to be a physician, because, as I told you, I was going there as most of the Palestinian children going to school. But I was lucky that I did well in the school. So, I succeeded, and I got high grades in the high school. And from that, I applied. The Egyptians were accepting the Palestinian students, according to their grades. So, I applied to the Egyptian universities. Because I got high grades, they gave me a scholarship to study medicine in Cairo University. And that's all. , INTERVIEWER:,So, as you started to study medicine, how did you begin to feel about - what were your plans to come back to Palestinian, to Gaza, to work with your people? Is that what your plan was? ,00:16:22>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,My plan was to finish, and to save my family. They were waiting for the moment to see their own son as a doctor. My father, all of the time, was thinking, would I live till Izzeldin graduate and to see him as a doctor? Even my mother was so proud of that, that Izzeldin, her own son is a doctor. Even they started to call her, the mother of the doctor. And she was happy. And even all of my family were proud of that. And I aimed to return back to my home to help and to save my family, to get them out from that poverty and deprivation that they suffered. And I don't want my brothers to suffer - to educate them, because the Palestinian person is not living for himself. He is living for his family. You are educated, so you have to teach and to educate your brothers, your cousins, and to help your family. And that's why I felt the responsibility to return back, once I graduated. I got high grades, even when I graduated, and I was accepted in Egypt to do my residency. My father said to me, what can we do, how we can support you? And I stopped that, I returned home. I think my father was lucky, at that time, that he lived for nine months, and then he died after my graduation. So, I carried the responsibility, after him, to help my brothers; to educate them, to support them, and -to continue our life. , INTERVIEWER:,Tell me about the program you became involved in? [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:13:12>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,When I returned to Gaza, in 1985, it was very difficult to find a job in Gaza Strip. So I went to Saudi Arabia. I got the contact, and I went to Saudi Arabia to work there. Because the financial situation in Gaza is very difficult, and I have to support my family. So I worked in Saudi Arabia, there, for three, three years. And there I was lucky to get the scholarship, also, to do my specialty. You know, subjects on obstetrics and gynecology. I was accepted to do it. And I finished there, until 1991 when I decided to return to my home, to be close to my mother, who suffered a lot, to raise us and to help us, and to be close to my family, and from the belief that I have to be close to my people, to help them. ,00:19:07>>>,During the preparation of my thesis, for my specialty, I found, in textbook, which is written by two Israeli professors, about male and female infertility. And they are from the Ben Gurion University, and the Saroka University Hospital. When I returned, in 1991, I started to make contact with them, because there's - I faced a lot of infertility patients, among the Palestinian people on the Gaza Strip. And, as it's well known that the Gaza Strip - it's the most densely populated area all over the world. There are about 1,200,000 people, living in the Gaza Strip, in 360 square kilometers. A third of that land is occupied by 5,000 settlers, and the remaining Palestinians. But how is that happening, a lot of infertility patients among the Palestinians, where there is high fertility rate? But, till I participated in a medical meeting, in Jerusalem, and I found that even there is a paradox. In areas where there is high fertility, there is high infertility. And the number of infertility cases is accumulative - accumulating - lack of facilities, lack of financial support. Because infertility treatment is very expensive. ,I started to make communication with Israeli professors, and the - one of them he was very -kind, very nice to me. He said to me, Izzeldin, why not to come here and to join us? I started in 1993 as a volunteer to join the Saroka Hospital, and to help in medicating those patients, to treat them, and to give them the medical consultation at the SarokaHospital. I worked for one year as a volunteer, running daily from Gaza to Be'er Sheva. And the question that you asked, there was suspicious [SIC] about - what is he really - is he a doctor or not? From the Givalia Camp is there some doctors? ,I succeeded to prove to them that really I am a doctor, and I am doing well. They welcomed me and they were very nice to me. Until 1994, when I was appointed as field obstetrician and gynecologist for the United Nations, in the Gaza Strip, for all of the refugees there. I found it, as an administrative job, that it didn't suit me. So, I decided to return to Suroca [PH], and I returned here in 1997, with the help of all of the team. They were highly motivated, Professor Mazor Professor Glick [PH], Professor ____, Professor Katz [PH], all of them, they said to me, most welcomed. All of the doors are open for you, Izzeldin, to return and to do what you need. , INTERVIEWER:,1993, that was a year of monument - an important year in Palestinian-Israeli history, and, I guess, an important year in your life, as well, because you were invited to teach here, and there was also the year of the Oslo Accords. Do you think there was once a relationship between your being appointed to be able to go to Suroca, and the, the progress for some peace programs? ,00:22:46>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,It wasn't, because in 1993, it was even the first Intifada, the end of the first Intifada, and the start of the Oslo Agreement, the Madrid and - but I haven't been looking for that. I felt, from the humanitarian level, that I am a doctor, I am not a politician. I have to work to hold my people; the needy, people who deserves it. That what I was thinking. But with the progress in the peace process, I said, why not invest that chance which is unique for both people? And I believe that this is the time to start it, from the time when I started to work in here in 1997, to arrange for meetings. And I arranged for a visit for the president of the university, thirty of the professors here and the team, to visit Gaza, to meet with Palestinian people there, and also for Palestinian people from there, to come here. Even their participation in the medical meetings. Because I felt it's the time to start it, to build the trust among the two peoples, and to promote peace that we are looking for, peace that we - we are in very bad need of. We suffer, both nations. I think we were victims. The Jewish were victims. ,So, I don't want from the victims, to do or to help. They have to help other people not to be victims, because they have learned a lot from what happened with the Jewish. And I'm sharing them their feeling, what happened in the holocaust. They were victims for those - for these things. That's the belief, what I started to promote it, and to help it, and to live in that small piece of land - the Holy Land that we had, to cooperate -to build something good among both nations, equally. And there is a place for that through health (?) , INTERVIEWER:,Let's talk more about how you see medicine as, as you say a bridge for peace. ,00:25:07>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Medicine, and even from my experience, when I was crossing the borders, at the beginning, it was very difficult time for me; inspection, everything, suspicious. With time, later on they started to deal with me in a very good way. Because I have deep belief in what I'm doing. Once I built their trust, among them, they were so kind, even sometimes they don't inspect me, Izzeldin, oh the doctor is coming; sitting, asking me many questions. The Israeli soldiers, about their families, what is going on. ____ even among my work here, among my colleagues. So what I think, medicine, to build the trust it is important through communication. We need to start it among the people themselves. I don't believe that this can be controlled, or to be forced on both nations, by someone up. They have to start it. To do it, between the people and among the people, one to one at a time. This is the most important. ,00:26:23>>>, Believe me, I think it is, lately people come, listen to each other, express their pains, their anger, and they can find a way. Because there is no way just to live in that peace on land, and to let the Israelis to think of the Palestinian as themselves, and also the Palestinian person to think of the Israelis. That what I like for myself, as a Palestinian, to like it for the Israelis. What the Israelis like for him - to like it for the Palestinian, to live equally - to grow the Palestinian child, the same as the Israelis. Not to find any Israeli father, or a child, suffering, or Palestinian. They have to live equally, side by side, to grow in this place on love, on cooperation, on - away from the psychological traumas. (Inaudible) one to one, it can be - we can do great. What I am doing for myself, it's a simple thing even for my work. But I feel, if we enlisted it, and started to enlarge it, it would be great. , INTERVIEWER:,You have many Israeli friends, you have many Israeli colleagues, you have many Jewish friends, but also you see that among your colleagues - I mean, not among your colleagues, but among your countrymen, that you see there's a war. There is a war, and there's killing, there's these people from Gaza, people from the West Bank are coming to - are blowing up themselves. They're sacrificing their lives, blowing up themselves, to kill Israelis. And then there's also, on the other side, you have Israelis coming and blowing up houses, blowing up cars, and there's a war going on. , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Yes. , INTERVIEWER:,You life is, in some ways, the opposite because you're - and maybe perhaps in a privileged position, because you have a - you're a doctor, you're working in an Israeli hospital. But then you go back to Gaza and you see the poverty, and the anguish over there. How do you reconcile the two, the contrasts, in your life and what you see over there? ,00:28:50>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,(Inaudible) -that's my thinking, all of the time, to save lives and tell how to get out of that vicious circle of killing in both sides. That's my aim. When I am coming to my work, I am thinking only how to help the patients. I am not coming with the situation in the Gaza Strip, that is going on. Even when I am in Israel, I am returning to my people who are very proud, and appreciating what I am doing. That's why I have never thought of that. ,It's very painful to me to return to Gaza to see what is going on there. And also, we have to find some responses that there is suicidal attacks, and bombs here and there. What I am looking for, both, they are victims. Because when I hear that there is killing here, there, I said to myself, who is going, who is waiting on the line? Why to stop it now? That's my thinking. I have never - because I don't want to think of the past. I am not thinking. What happened, happened, we can't repair it. Look for the future. How to learn from the history and to look for the future to build it, and to learn from those things. Not to repeat it. We don't want any more victims. And even, we can learn, some people they said, oh the trust has been broken, nothing at all. No one was thinking. ,00::30:25>>>,We have thought that in 1994 that the Oslo Agreement signed, yes Arafat isn't coming back, the PLO has returned, Rabin shaked hands with Yasser Arafat - even if I told - I discussed it with you in 1970, no one would think of it, that it will happen. But it happened. And that's what I am thinking. And I believe in it. Nothing impossible. With sincere efforts and good will of all the people, everything is possible. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , INTERVIEWER:,It seems as though Oslo was many lifetimes ago, many lives ago. You know, many - a few thousand Palestinians, a few thousand - many hundreds of Israelis have been killed. What happened? ,00:32:00>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,What happened, happened. How to stop it. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] What I felt, that we had to prepare the people, in both sides, for this peace. There was - it wasn't prepared well both nations. We are not prepared well to feel that the peace is - this peace, that we are going to find, and we are searching for, is the peace that both nations need. That what I think. So, lack of preparation, for that is the reason. , INTERVIEWER:,Now what about the leaders? When people say the Palestinians are not partners in peace? Is it the Palestinian people that are not partners of the peace, or is the Palestinian leaders that are not partners for peace? Is it the Israeli leaders that don't want peace, or is it the Israeli people that don't want peace? , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I told you that I am not a politician, that to discuss it with you. , INTERVIEWER:,From your heart. , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,No, I am not speaking from my heart. Heart is not speaking, my mind has to speak. , INTERVIEWER:,Okay, speak from your mind. ,00:32:55>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Yes, that what I'm telling, because I have never discussed it. And that's what I'm telling you, lack of good preparation from both sides is the reason for what is going on, and the good intention, which is important, to implement-the peace, this peace, among the two nations. , INTERVIEWER:,Do you think there are, on both sides, is there good intentions among - on the leadership? [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:33:37>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I am sure, both of them, they want the peace. But what are the criteria of peace that both leadership wants? [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] The people, the Palestinian people, I am telling you, most of the Palestinian people are interested in peace. And eagering [SIC] for that moment to live in peace. the Palestinian woman doesn't want to sacrifice her child, or her husband, or her home. They want, as everywhere in the world - they are human being, they want to enjoy their life. Let them, and give them the chance to live in peace. They suffered a lot, the Palestinians, and they don't even, I am sure, no one in life likes to suffer. So, the Palestinian people are eagering for the peace, and they are intending for but what kind of peace, peace that is little justice among it. That respects human rights to live respectfully, equally as everywhere in the world. That's what they are looking for. , INTERVIEWER:,The west, we see the television, when there is a suicide bombing, the Palestinian mothers are praising their children for their sacrifices, or the Palestinian people - we hear about that they are ____, and martyrs, and they will be rewarded with all kinds of things. Is that what most of the Palestinian people think? Is that wha - ,00:35:22>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,It is not most of the Palestinian - and that's what you are watching. You are going to see what is going on with the Palestin - go to see the Palestinian suffering, even when there is a suicidal bomb here, go to see what is the Israeli responses. At that time, in any action, you will find responses. But this is not the majority. The majority, on both sides, are eagering and want peace. That's important. These are the minority. And even for a woman who is losing - do you think it is easy for a woman to lose her child, whatever? I don't think. I have never thought, even if you - even in the Arabic saying, if you raised a dog and after that you will be angry. Even a small bird, you will be angry to sacrifice a bird. How to sacrifice, you know-a son that has been grown, twenty, twenty-five years old, or a husband, or whatever. You know, these responses don't get ____. So, how to learn from that or prevent it, I don't _____. Even how to prevent these things from reoccurrence, which is important for me. Those people are suffering, they have no future, they are frustrated, disappointed. So we don't want to add more - the bloodshed, and animosity among them. How to think of stopping it? , INTERVIEWER:,If you learn that one of your neighbors, or one of your cousins, a young person was planning to sacrifice themselves as a suicide bomber, or terrorist, in some way, what would you say to them? , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,If he is planning to do that? , INTERVIEWER:,If he's planning to do - , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Because he will not tell me. , INTERVIEWER:,But if you learned - ,00:37:09>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Because I will not learn. And even the one who is doing it, he will not tell me. For me, I am against, and I will not let - I would explain to him -that life is precious and to appreciate life. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] It is very difficult, because at the time, when he is suffering, and to watch what he is witnessing, what is going in his place, it would be a great debate with those people, because he would start to explain to me, because he is witnessing, he is raised there in the killing, in the suffering, in the destruction, the demolition - you know, the closure Those things, how to respond with him. ,I want, from both sides, even other believers. And both leaders, from both sides, to help us to prevent those people - to let them feel that their life is precious, and doesn't deserve to use it - to lose it in that way. But once he is, in closure in suffering, to witness everything in life, and also for the Israeli soldiers to find those things he has filled his heart with; animosity against the Palestinians, how to create a dialogue among them, or start thinking that life is precious. Don't do it. And once they have a future for that, I am sure to tell them their future is waiting for them, a longer future, a happy future. Not, the future is vague, which he doesn't know what is he going? To let him know there is a future, and he has to have a family, to have a children, and to enjoy the life, this is the most important message that we has to teach our children on both sides. , INTERVIEWER:,Can the current leadership, on both sides - do you think there's a hope for peace with the current - with Mr. Sharon, then we have President Arafat, Prime Minister Barak, Prime Minister Arafat, can these two people make peace? ,00:39:20>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I think there is possibility. I told you, nothing impossible. But the peace - and even at this moment, we don't want to say that I am the winner, or to force you that you have to follow me. Without bowing our heads to each other . We have to think of the people that - who are living here, in this area. How to save them? That it is not something personal. That I have to defeat, or to respond to you in that way. We have to think of our nations and our people - how to do it. And it's possible. If they saw it, if they were thinking of both nations, how to build it. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , INTERVIEWER:,Do you have a message to your people? A message to the Jewish people? A message to the leaders? What is your message that you want to convey? ,[CHANGING TAPE] ,[TAPE 29], INTERVIEWER:,Is there anything that you see, that's been an obstacle for peace, by the Israelis? ,00:00:21>>> , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,The obstacle, that I think, the misunderstanding among both nations, and each of them is thinking of himself, the Israelis have to think that peace, that which lasts long, is not the peace that which is imposed. It is the peace that has been accepted by, good will, both sides. Not telling the Palestinian accept the peace, until the Palestinian feel that they were imposed to accept, this is the peace that you have to accept. No. DO the Palestinians say, this is, this is the peace that we want, and to tell their children that we have accepted it, and this is what we want, and we agreed upon? This is the most important message for the Israelis.The other thing - to think - to tell the Israelis. And this is small Holy Land. It is small. But it can accommodate, believe me, the Palestinians and the Israelis, peacefully. And there is a good Arabic saying: Small house can accommodate hundreds of friends, but can't accommodate two enemies. Two enemies that can't accommodate, they will fight, and destroy everything. Let this home accommodate both of them, equally, peacefully, and to enjoy their life. If it is not for us, at least for our children and the grandchildren. , INTERVIEWER:,You said, earlier, that Gaza is 1.2 million Palestinians, and 5,000 settlers. Do you think the settlements are an issue? ,00:02:16>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I am telling you, I am not a politician. Even, we have to obey the trust and good will, and intention among them, and to start from the beginning, not waiting, waiting for the other corner to think that we have to solve it peacefully. This is important. , INTERVIEWER:,And what about on the Palestinian side? Do you think there have been any obstacles that the Palestinians have created to peace? ,00:02:40>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:, Of course! ON every side there is a minority who are against the majority. But I don't want the minority to control the majority. , INTERVIEWER:,Be specific. ,00:02:50>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,In every - there are extremes on both sides, maybe. (Inaudible) because you can't have 100 % agreement or democratic in every place. So, among the Palestinians, you can find some people who are against this peace, even what I'm telling you. Also among the Israelis, there is - Israelis who are against it. But the majority dominate, and take the other hand. , INTERVIEWER:,Has the ____ Intifada, do you think that has advanced the Palestinian causes, or was there any benefits, or -,00:03:33>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I don't think. I think it's complicated. Among the Israelis and Palestinians, it has been complicated, and destroyed a lot of things for the Palestinians and the Israelis. , INTERVIEWER:,Can you elaborate? ,00:03:54>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,It widened the gap and added more animosity and the bloodshed. And instead of being closer, it -separated us more and more. And that's why, you know, because these actions, and reactions, and - as you mentioned before - because, this war that we are living, it's not easy. , INTERVIEWER:,You mentioned, earlier, that it's the leaders don't make peace, it's people that make peace. , IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,That was my thinking. , INTERVIEWER:,Can you tell us about that philosophy? ,00:04:32>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Because, if the leaders - how to ____ the people, their relations, and the cooperations among the people, it will help the leaders to take decisions. Because it's not easy. And that's what I told you. Preparation, among the people, will help the leaders to take decision, and to have the right decisions that the people want. Because it is not the leaders that don't want the peace. Because now, the peoples, they would not accept the peace that has been imposed by the leaders. And the leaders are not in a position to take decisions. Because of the extremes, or ___ majority leader would not agree upon it. So let prepare the ground, prepare the people for it, to feel just at the end. The people are ready for it, and the leaders will sign it. And I'm sure - the people do that peace. And the people are witness. And the leaders are witnessing that agreement among the peoples. , INTERVIEWER:,Do you think the leaders are not doing what the people want? ,00:05:37>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,No, I don't think like that. I don't think like that, that the leaders are not doing. I think the leaders, they can't go against their peoples will. The people are not well prepared for it. There is a lot of sacrifice. There is a lot of things the people have to do it for that peace. It is not that peace that is easy for President Arafat to do it, and to sign for the, for many painful sacrifice, and also for the Jews. So both people have to feel that, and to be well prepared for that, and to recognize it. And the leaders (Inaudible) back is strengthened, and the strength supporting them, they will sign it. , INTERVIEWER:,Is there a message that you have that you want to convey? ,00:06:38>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,For me, I am feeling, all of the time, I have never looked for the past, all the time I am looking for the future. I don't want to argue with anyone about what happened, who is the cause, what has been done, how to learn from it, for me as a Palestinian refugee - that I suffered a lot. I learned from that. I don't want anyone to suffer. So that is the message. And I'm keeping my optimism and hope to do that. That's what I feel, so how to think of the future, to build it, and to give support to the people, and to continue the help of the people. That what I think, and peace is possible in this land, with the cooperation and with the help of all the people everywhere, to support and to help the people here to get rid of this vicious circle, and to stop it. , INTERVIEWER:,Is there anything that you'd like to say, that we haven't covered in our conversation here? ,00:07:53>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I hope the time will come soon to witness that day, to be close, and to find both nations, and even, sometimes, as you mentioned, concerning the al Asqua Intifada. For me, I am thinking, I hope in time, just to open my eyes and to close it - to find myself - we were two years _____ before. And that has not - that happened before. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] To open my eyes and to find it, and to return to the situation that it was before. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] What I'm thinking, and even my feeling, how to return to the situation which was before September 2000. Even all of my time I thinking, dreaming of that. I want to give the feeling to myself, to open my eyes and to close it, and to find ourself, we are back to 2000, to the year 2000, September 2000. Because we were so close, and it's possible to return to that point. , INTERVIEWER:,(Inaudible) ,00:09:16>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I don't want to look for that - that's why I'm telling you, I don't want to look for the past. I don't want to look, how to return and to invest that time, and to invest it - to improve it, and to proceed forward. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , INTERVIEWER:,If the leaders must be the ones to make peace, how do the people convince the leaders to do so? [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:09:49>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Yes, the people have to convince their leaders -by the thing that they are doing, first of all, and how to convince the people. This is the most important thing. To convince the people of the peace. I am sure the leaders are convinced of the importance of peace. The leaders are convinced about it. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] The question, that what he said - how the people would convince their leaders of the peace. The leaders are convinced of the importance of peace. But we want to convince and to build the peace among the people. That will help the leaders to implement them - it. , INTERVIEWER:,And how can that happen? ,00:10:40>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,By cooperation, bringing them together, helping them with each other, build their trust, letting them feel equally they are the same. This is important. To speak with each other at the same level. Not one from up, and one from down. Both sides are at the same level, and they have the same importance, they have the same - they deserve life. Both of them equally. , INTERVIEWER:,As a doctor, when you walk into the wards here, in the hospital, do you see any difference between the Palestinian people, the Israeli people, the Bedouin [PH] people, the Russian people? Is there any difference to you? ,00:11:22>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,I have never witnessed anything like that, even for me as a Palestinian. I am coming here to treat patients. I am not asking them about their religion, their ethnicity, whatever. Do you think a patient even, for me - the Jewish patient is more important. I want her to get the message that a Palestinian doctor who treated her, he is from Gaza. And just one story to tell you, I remember I delivered a Jewish patient. And she was asking me, because she was happy that I helped her. From where are you? She started to guess, I am from ____, because she thought that I am an Israeli Arab. From (Inaudible). And there was a midwife close to me. I told her - tell her from where I am. She told her that, he is from Gaza. And you know, from where that patient was, she is from Gush Katif. I am not looking for her, whatever. She is a settler in Gaza Strip, but I am dealing with her, even, I want her to return with the impression a Palestinian doctor treated her without any discrimination. That's - in medicine, even anyone who is doing any harm to me, and even to ____, I will tell you in medicine. If one son killed my brother, I have to treat him. Believe me. I don't care for that. Medicine is the thing that bridge the people and gives the hope for the people. , INTERVIEWER:,Was there any reaction by the settler, when she learned? ,00:12:56>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,Oh, she was very happy about it. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] She was very happy that she knew that I am from Gaza, and even, until now, many when I am in my ward or on duty, some patients were coming - oh, it's good Izzeldin that you are there! Not David, or someone Israeli doctor. Because this is the impression, the patient is waiting for you to get - how to deal with them? The Jewish woman, the Bedouin, the Christian, the Russian, she is a woman she wants someone who helps her. That's all. So how to communicate and to help, and to give the good impression about yourself, which is important. , INTERVIEWER:,So, medicine to you, in your world, in your life, in your world, medicine is the bridge between the two people. ,00:13:41>>>, IZZELDIN ABUELAISH:,And doctors could be messengers for peace. Doctors are the messengers for that, believe me. Doctors are the messengers for that peace and the bridge among the two peoples. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,[END OF INTERVIEW]
PREV - Area - Codes
THE STATUS OF THE NATION'S AREA CODE CRISIS IS UNDER EXAMINATION AGAIN. A REPORT DUE OUT TUESDAY WILL REVEAL JUST HOW BAD THE SITUATION IS
Dore Gold Interview
00:00:57:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Tell us your name, and spell it please? ,00:01:05:00>>>DORE GOLD: Ambassador Dore Gold. That's D-o-r-e, G-o-l-d. ,00:01:15:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Where were you from? ,00:01:30:00>>>DORE GOLD: I was born in the State of ConnectiCUt. I lived in Israel since the mid 1970's. , ,00:01:45:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What would you say is the number one, or one of the number one misconceptions in the west, about the Arab-Israeli conflict? ,01:02:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well clearly, since September 11th, the Palestinians and their supporters in the United Nations, have been stressing that the reason, the motivation, for the Palestinian uprising, which they called Intifada, is Israel's ocCUpation, or so-called ocCUpation, of Palestinian territories, as they say. There was probably no more baseless a charge, that can be utilized, or that has been utilized in the International Community. You have to understand that those who state that what motivates the attacks on Israelis is ocCUpation, those who make that claim are, perhaps, building on the amnesia of the international community. Because, after all, what were the Oslo Agreements about, from 1993? I was an Oslo negotiator. I was involved in the ____ Agreement, and in the Wye Negotiations, in 1998. And what the Oslo Agreements were, and what we ultimately implemented, was a withdrawal of the Israeli military government over the Palestinians. And replacing that with a Palestinian government, called the Palestinian authority, under Yasser Arafat. , So, as a result of the Oslo Agreements, which Israel implemented in good faith, in the 1990's, the Palestinians were not under military ocCUpation. Did they have a Palestinian state? No. Were they under military ocCUpation? No. And they feel those who were using this argument of ocCUpation, to justify violence, are simply trying to find an exCUse for murderous terrorism against Israeli civilians. But it's a baseless argument. And it is simply used repetitive - repeatedly. It is simply used repeatedly, in places like the United Nations security Council, or the United Nations General Assembly, to justify the murder of innocent Israeli civilians. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:04:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Can you talk a little bit about what does and what does not just - what kind of grievances might justify terror? Can terror ever be justified? ,00:04:07:00>>>DORE GOLD: I think, after September 11th, it's become completely clear to most countries, in the international community, today, that there is no possible justification for the murder of innocent civilians. There is no grievance that can possibly justify taking young people and having them strap dynamite to themselves, and sending them to - into a crowded Israeli café, full of Israeli teenagers, and murdering thirty innocent Israelis. No economic deprivation, no political claim, and certainly not this baseless charge of ocCUpation, can possibly used to give a context or explanation for the kind of terrible tragedy that, that act leads to. ,00:04:45:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You talked about the ocCUpation charge, about the Palestinian people. There is also a charge that Israel is ocCUpying Palestinian land. Can you use the phrase, ‘Palestinian lands'? ,00:05:00:00>>>DORE GOLD: This is part of the language that developed in the United Nations. The United Nations, unfortunately, is many times a, a place not where international laws are established, but where international politics is pursued. And therefore, much of the normal CUlture in the UN, doesn't even reflect other fundamental UN resolutions. It's clear, from UN security Council Resolution 242, which is really the foundation of the Arab-Israeli peace process. IT was the basis of the Camp David Agreement with Egypt. IT was the basis of the peace agreement with Jordan. It was even the basis of the Oslo Agreement. It is clear, from that resolution 242, that Israel is never expected to withdraw, lock, stock and barrel, from The West Bank in Gaza Strip. That Israel had rights in those territories because it was attacked from those territories, in the 1967 Six Day War. And therefore, those territories, rather than being ocCUpied territories, which belonged to somebody else, are reality disputed territories, where Israel has claims, and an Arab party may have claims. In this case, the Palestinians. ,00:06:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: The ocCUpation grievance is not really there. And nothing could justify such (Inaudible). What is, what kind of ideological motivation might be behind this attack against Israel, as well as Israeli policy?,00:06:43:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, look, Israel had the opportunity to test the intentions of the Palestinians. Most of the international community was convinced that the Palestinians simply wanted their own state, within the territory of the West Bank, in Gaza Strip. And that's what they were struggling for. And therefore, many observers looked at this conflict through the lenses of decolonization. Thinking that if Israel would just turn it over, the West Bank in Gaza Strip, or large parts of it, for a Palestinian state, the Arab-Israel conflict would end, the Middle East crisis would be terminated, and the entire Middle Eastern order would snap into place. And all of the problems in the United States, and the European union in the Middle East would end. But clearly that wasn't true. Because once Israel went to Camp David, and ____ Prime Minister Ehud Barak, basically offered Yasser Arafat, virtually all of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and even was willing to divide Jerusalem, something which most Israeli's, in fact a vast majority of Israeli's objected. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] Once Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, our former Prime Minister, went to Camp David, offered the Palestinians virtually all the West Bank, in Gaza Strip, was willing to even contemplate the division of Jerusalem, which the vast majority of Israelis objected to, and Yasser Arafat turned him down, it became clear to everybody who followed this issue that the question here is not over a limited piece of territory - the West Bank and Gaza, and a little bit of Jerusalem - Mr. Arafat and his supporters have much greater ambitions that involved Israel, itself. ,>>>INTERVIEWER: What kind of ideology might be behind the larger Islamic movement, that includes - the Islamic movement that includes maybe some (Inaudible)? What really motivated - why do they hate Israel so much? What is it about Israel in a nation of western democracy, and (Inaudible) American democracy in the Middle East, that might be motivating this hatred to resist all Israeli concessions?,00:09:05:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, I just concluded a book called Hatred's Kingdom, which viewed the impact of Wajabi Islam, on the entire Middle East. Certainly, since 1973, when Saudi Arabia began earning huge oil income from elevated oil prices, the Saudi's were able to export their very narrow version of Islam to many countries of the Middle East. To places like Pakistan, which gave birth to the Taliban regime, and certainly had an impact on many of the Moslem brotherhood organizations, including Hamas. And those organizations, first of all, do not view Christians and Jews, as legitimate, fellow, monotheists, who shared the same basic fate, as many Moslems. Classical Islam, while perhaps putting Christians and Jews in a kind of second class citizenship, requiring them to pay discriminatory taxes like the _____ and the _____, nonetheless were willing to protect Jews and Christians, as people of the book. Many of these pro lwahabi organizations even removed that status of people of the book, from Christians and Jews, and described them as _____, as polytheists, who basically didn't have a right to live. So, much of this evil wind from Arabia, has reached the shores of the Eastern Mediterranean, and has effected many ideologs in the Hamas movement, in the Islamic Jihad Movement, both of which had received financial support from Saudi Arabia. And this undoubtedly has had an impact on Palestinian politics. But there is also a fundamental problem with de fatah organization as well. ,00:11:02:55>>>INTERVIEWER: What is the fundamental problem? ,00:11:03:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, after Camp David, when we wanted to understand what was motivating Yasser Arafat, Israeli analysts, much more carefully monitored the statements within the Fatah Movement itself. For example the chief idealog of the Fatah Movement, is a man by the name of Fatah Jabash [PH]. No relationship to George Jabash. And he frequently appeared in various Palestinian towns and cities, and gave speeches in the name of Yasser Arafat. How do we know that? Because those speeches were replicated in full textual form, in ____, in ____ Al-Jadida [PH}, both of which are official newspapers of the Palestinian authority. And in those sermons that he gave in Palestinian cities, in Arafat's name, Fatah Jabash made it clear that the Palestinian, the Palestinian Fatah leadership still adhered to the stages strategy to 1974. And that is, establish a Palestinian state, and any bit of liberated Palestine that you can, and from there continue the conflict to dismantle the State of Israel. If that, indeed, was the motivation of Yasser Arafat, then that explains a great deal of why the Camp David Summit, under President Clinton, failed. And why Mr. Arafat could never bring himself to sign an agreement with Israel that talked about the termination of conflict. ,00:12:51:00>>>INTERVIEWER: The Fatah is the means for the faction of the - of Yasser Arafat's faction of the Palestinian authority, only the people don't know it. So, it can be said for the ___ Fatah, is that Yasser Arafat's mainstream faction believes, or it clearly believes in a (Inaudible). ,00:12:52:00>>>DORE GOLD:,What happened after the failed Camp David Summit, of July of 2000, was that many Israelis more carefully monitored the statements of the Fatah movement. When Israel went into the Oslo Agreement, it was understood that mainstream movements, within the PLO, like the Fatah Movement, had changed. That perhaps they were adapting a strategy very similar to Nelson Mandela in South Africa, who set aside the arms struggle, and instead showed the diplomatic process. In fact, many in Israel, in the 1990's, assumed that there was a huge struggle transpiring in the Arab world, between the old forces of Arab Nationalism, which the Fatah component of the PLO represented among the Palestinians, and the new rising forces of Islamic fundamentalism, like the Hamas, and the Islamic Jihad. It was assumed that, just as the Nationalist forces in Algeria, or Egypt, were fighting against Islamic Fundamentalists, so too Yasser Arafat, leading the Fatah Movement, and its elements in the PLO, would fight against Hamas and Islamic Jihad. But of course what really happened in the 1990's, was that the Fatah Movement colluded with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, didn't fight them, allowed them to grow, permitted suicide bombings against the State of Israel, and ultimately joined the war against Israel when Arafat initiated the second Intifada in September of 2000, against the State of Israel. So, that rather than the Fatah Movement and the PLO being this moderate force, which the world could get behind to bring an end to the Arab-Israel conflict, they were, in fact, radical allies of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. And, in a certain sense, it's not a surprise. Because anybody who knows the biographies of the leaders of the Fatah Movement, such as Yasser Arafat or his military leader, Abu Jihad, knows that many of these men were either sympathizers or activists in the famous Egyptian Moslem Brotherhood, which, of course, gave rise to many of the radical movements across the Middle East with the backing of Saudi money. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:15:15:00>>>INTERVIEWER: There was some talk today, among the Palestinian (Inaudible) warning, while Camp David failed, they were about to reach an agreement in Taba, months later. And the agreements were about to be signed, and the Palestinians approved of them, and the Israelis said (Inaudible), and then there were new elections and Sharon came to power, so it never happened. So actually, it wasn't the Palestinians, but Israel, who dropped the ball? ,00:15:52:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well there is a myth that Palestinian negotiators are interested in putting forward. That Israel and the PLO, on the verge of a final status agreement at Taba, which is, of course the Egyptian resort town, near Alat [PH] - [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] There is a rumor that - there is a rumor that exists, that Palestinian negotiators love to put forward, that Israel, and the PLO, on the verge of a permanent status agreement at Taba, the resort town where negotiations were held after the failed Camp David Summit. The idea that Israel and Palestinians could - were just inches away from an agreement, is simply untrue. If you look at every category, every issue that was raised in those negotiations, borders, Jerusalem, refugees, security arrangements, what you find is that the gap between the Israeli position - the most forthcoming Israeli position, and the Palestinian position, is basically unbridgeable. And I think it's a complete misrepresentation of history. In fact, the best source about this are the notes of the European union envoy, who was at the talks, Ambassador Mortinos [PH]. And if you carefully examine his notes, which were reported in the press, you will see the gaps between the parties were unbridgeable. There was no agreement that was simply prevented by Israeli elections. ,00:7:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: If there had been agreements, would there have been a silent counter offer continually offered, instead of resorting to the ____ Intifada, that (Inaudible) for example, Palestinian. Is the failure - is there proof that the Palestinian authority might lie in the fact that, instead of offering a counter offer, they launched this ____ Intifada. This war of terror. ,00;17:50:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, what is clear is that the Palestinians -let me start again. Let's look at the sequence of events. July of 2000, is the failed Camp David Summit with President Clinton. The negotiations in Taba, which the Palestinians claim almost led to an agreement, but, in fact, the gaps were invisible, that ocCUrs in December of 2000, January 2001. But the Palestinians launched their violence against Israel in September of 2000, before those Taba negotiations even take place. If the Palestinians were serious about reaching a peaceful agreement with Israel, they would never have adopted violence. Now, there are Palestinians who argue that, that violence erupted because Prime Minister Sharon, then head of the opposition, went for a stroll on the Temple Mount, where members (Inaudible) permitted to visit and walk. But we know, from the statements of Palestinian leaders, like Imad Farugi [PH], the Communications Minister of the Palestinian Authority, that the entire Intifada of Yasser Arafat, from September 2000, was pre-planned. We know that Mawan Barguti [PH] was trying to recruit Israeli Arabs, prior to the outbreak of the Intifada, and therefore it is clear to us that Yasser Arafat elected a strategy of violence, because he had no intention of reaching a final agreement with Israel . He wanted to negotiate with Israel while Israel was bleeding. And what Ariel Sharon said was, that those rules, we will not adhere to. ,00:19:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: These facts, these damning facts, did it expose, did it really expose the Palestinians? Or, are they also a tragedy for those individual Palestinians who might have hoped for a better leadership and a better future? ,00:20:00:00>>>DORE GOLD: I was a negotiator with many Palestinians, and I have to say, I sense that there were Palestinians who really wanted to reach an agreement, who thought about the future of the Palestinian people, and believed that, ultimately, by creating a relation of peace with Israel, they could get a better future for their people as well. Unfortunately, that wasn't the dominant perspective of Yasser Arafat, and those who were loyal to him. And much time is lost, much blood has been spilled, it's been a tragedy for many Israelis who have died, people I know. As well as for the Palestinians. I think there is a lesson of all this, this entire period. It's that you have to establish firm rules, and insist that the Palestinian side, in the future, adhere to those rules, in any negotiation. The most cardinal rule, that has to become fixed in stone, is that no one use violence to advance their negotiating agenda. The moment the Pal - any Palestinian negotiator in the future who ____ the violence, the negotiations must end. Because once they do that, it becomes clear that their intention isn't peace, but perpetual conflict. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:21:00:00<<<INTERVIEWER: There is a myth that Israel is an apartide state, with unequal status, for ____ and Jews, whether in the West Bank, or in Israel proper. How would you count this charge that Israel is called the academic weapon - apartide state? ,00:21:22:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, first of all, Israel has granted citizenship to Israeli Arabs, who amount to about 20% of the Israeli population. They have full voting rights, they attend all universities. There are elements of the Arabic speaking community like the Drews [PH], who don't regard themselves as Arabs, who are also drafting into the Israeli Army. We have better volunteers than the Israeli Army, as well, but we don't force the Arabs - the Arab population - to serve in the army. We don't draft them, because we don't want to put them in a position where they have to shoot at their brothers. But in fact Israel is a country which is granted huge (let me start again.) ......Israel is a country which has sought to make sure that its Arab population has equal rights to the Israeli-Jewish population, even though Israel is a country that's been under siege for fifty years, by a coalition of Arab states. ,00:21:50:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Religious freedom, is an important value for Israel, and how is it viewed as being different now that Israel controls lands, as opposed to centuries before? ,00:22:00:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, in fact, if you look historically at what has happened to the holy sites of the great religions, (exCUse me, let me start again). [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] In fact, if you look historically, at what has happened to the holy sites of the great religions, under different people's sovereignty, what you find is that only under the sovereignty of Israel has, for example, Jerusalem been open to all faiths. The Jewish people were forcibly removed from Jerusalem when the Romans conquered Jerusalem in 70A.D., and destroyed the second temple. And for at least five hundred years Jews were forbidden to live in Jerusalem. They began coming back, ironically, with the first Moslem conquest, and later, once the crusaders were defeated by _____. But already, in 1864, under the Ottoman Empire, the Jewish people recovered their majority in Jerusalem. That was at the time of the American Civil War. It was well before the arrival of the British Empire, to the Middle East. And yet (let me start that again) - So, the Jewish people recovered their majority in Jerusalem. Already, in 1864, at the time of the American Civil War, well before the arrival of the British to the Middle East. Yet it was a struggle for the Jewish people to assure themselves full rights, and of access to the holy sites. In fact, in 1948, when the Jordanian Army invaded the nation State of Israel, and conquered Jerusalem, with the help of British officers, about 50 synagogues, in the old city of Jerusalem, many of them going back to the 13th Century, were either destroyed or desecrated. Jews were robbed of access to the Western Wall, their great holy site. The Christian population in Jerusalem suffered tremendously in the population of Christians living in Jerusalem, diminished from about 25,000 to about 11 or 12,000 by 1967. Only when Israel liberated the old city of Jerusalem, was it truly open to all faiths. Was the Armenian quarter of the old city able to prosper and thrive in the Armenian church, build a new seminary. ,00:24:57:00>>>DORE GOLD: Only when Israel was in control, did Christians begin to return to Jerusalem. Only when Israel was in control, were Jews able to pray at the Western Wall, and at their various holy sites. During the period of this Intifada that began in September of 2000, what Israelis witnessed was that holy sites, that were turned over to be protected by the Palestinian authority, were, again, abused, were again sacked. For example, Joseph's Tomb, in Nabwith [PH], the Sharam Israel [PH] Synagogue, an ancient Synagogue in Jericho. Rachel's Tomb, on the border between Bethlehem and Jerusalem, has constantly been under sniper fire by Mr. Arafat's Tanzim [PH] gunmen. And finally, the Palestinian rocks, that's the Religious Endowments Ministry, which took over for the Jordanians on the Temple Mount, has been involved in an illegal excavation, destroying artifacts going back to The Crusades, and even to the second and first temples. So, if Israelis have learned anything from the last two years, it's that only under the sovereignty of Israel, can Jerusalem truly be protected, and be a citizen that's open to all things. ,00:26:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: The ancient Palestinian negotiators that you felt, genuinely, wanted peace, do you believe that there are Palestinian individuals out there who just want the house, and the garage, and the chicken in every pot, sort of just - who, themselves, do not share in either Wajabism or the Islamists, or the corruption in the phase plans of leadership? ,00:26:47:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, I think what's very hard in the west, for people to understand, is that political movements are not necessarily motivated by just - that what's very hard in the west, to understand, many times, is that political movements are not organized to address the every day needs of people. That there are many times a movement that is established on the basis of aggressive ideologies. You either have the nationalist and socialist ideologies, the constituent elements of the PLO, like the Fatah Movement, like the PFLP Socialist group, like the DFLP, also, a Pro-Marxist group. Or you have the highly ideologically charged Hamas and Islamic Jihad, who come out of these pro lobby time or - backgrounds and organizations. There are Palestinians who want normal lives. ..... You know, one time I spent weeks in Jordan, with Jordanian Military people, and they would point to some of the tremendous construction and advances inside of Jordan, and whispered to me the Palestinians were behind them. And they would talk about the fact that the Palestinians contributed to the development of Persian Golf countries like Kuwait, the United ____, and other places. ,00:28:14:00>>>DORE GOLD: The Palestinians are extraordinarily talented. They are the most educated component of the Arab World in Arab societies. And with - in the context of a political leadership that believes in freedom and democracy, it can lead to great progress for their people. But if they're trapped by their ideologies of yesterday, you know, sort of from that world of, of Fidel Castro, and Brechnev [PH], and all those who spawned the left wing organizations, as well as the ideologies of the ____ movements, those who have supported the Moslem brotherhood and come out of the extremist pro lobby wings, then the Palestinians will not progress. ....And I think what is important, at this point, is that the world community establish a model of freedom of democracy, which has worked so well in other regions of the world, for the Middle East as well, so the Palestinians will have a political context, in which their talents can be expressed. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:29:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: The concept of refugees, the UN defines the Palestinian refugees in a certain way, and using a definition that is now regarded, the numbers always fluctuate - millions of Palestinians, a million and a half refugees, has this concept been misrepresented and distorted to bloat the numbers and create a _____? ,00:29:54:00>>>DORE GOLD: I think most - in - let me start again. I think in most conflicts, the UN has attempted to resolve refugee issues by finding homes for refugees, by bringing about normalized refugees. The Arab states who have been at war with Israel have been interested in keeping the refugee issue alive, refusing to grant normalcy for Palestinian refugees in Lebanon or in Syria, through a lesser extent than Jordan. Jordan has been better on this issue. And using the refugee issue as a grievance to maintain the war against the State of Israel. In order to help refugees move on and build a better life, what the international community should do is help invest in the various countries where Palestinian refugees are, so they can establish a new life in new homes. And we can move on beyond this issue. .......There are many wars that have existed since 1945, and many refugees in Afghanistan, in Iran, in Southeast Asia and elsewhere, and although there is a political interest in foCUsing on the ref - on the Palestinian refugees, there is a need to address this refugee issue, as other refugee issues have been looked at. ,00:31:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Have there been Jewish refugees? ,00:31:11:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, of course, one of the big ironies of the Arab-Israel conflict, is that while the world speaks about Palestinian refugees all the time, most in the international community completely ignore the hundreds of thousands, in fact millions of refugees that were kicked out of the Arab world, from Morocco to Iraq, who lost their property, who lost their way of life, and were accepted by the State of Israel. .........Israel was a poor country when it first was established. And yet it, it found homes and established a new life for hundred's and thousands of Jewish refugees in the Arab world. If one talks about the refugee issue, one should speak about the Palestinian refugees, but one should also speak about the Jewish refugees from Arab countries. ,00:32:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: The British mandate ____, is there any way the British handled things that inappropriately shaped the conflict, today? ,00:32:30:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, in fact, you know, there were attempts by Arabs and Jews to begin to create a political context for resolving their differences. At the time of - right after the first World War, we had the Faza [PH] Whitesman [PH] Agreement, in which the man, who would go on to become the first president of Israel, Jyam [PH] Whitesman, basically stated, look, you the Arab side, you King Faza, representing the Hashamite House, want a great Arab state. You've been promised that by the British. It would cover all of Arabia, it would cover Syria, Iraq, it would cover parts of the Jordanian territory. And if you want this great Arab state, we, the Zionist Movement, will support it. If we can have our Jewish homeland in British mandatory Palestinian. And, at that time, Faza, representing the Hashamite House, which covered this whole area, agreed. And basically said, well, if you have a little Jewish state in the corner of the Middle East, that's worth supporting, so, that we have our great Arab state. ,00:33:21:00>>>DORE GOLD: But what did the British do? They gave away Syria and Lebanon to the French. They basically allowed the Saudis to kick the Hashamites out of Arabia, and be without their main patrimony in the Hijas [PHJ]. And, as a result, the conflict became much more complicated. But the conflict might have been prevented and resolved by effective diplomacy back in 1919, and 1920. ,00:34:20:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Any thoughts about British ____ of immigration to change the balance? ,00:34:50:00>>>DORE GOLD: One of the worst periods in Jewish history is, of course, in the 1930's, when the rise of Nazi power was on the horizon, and Jewish lives were threatened. And the British Empire, at the time, imposed the White Paper of 1939, which limited Jewish immigration into Palestine. At the same time, there was a huge amount of Arab immigration into Palestine, from Egypt, from Syria, from as far away as Iraq, and you created a kind of asymmetry. The Jews were kept out of British mandatory Palestine, but the Arab stream didn't because they saw this area as an area of tremendous economic success, and economic opportunity and employment. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] [TAPE BREAK] ,00:36:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: In a claim that Arab and Jews lived in coexistence, in peace and brotherhood, for centuries before Israel and the Zionists came and messed things up, was (Inaudible) at this point? ,00:00:49:00>>>TAPE 13A - DORE GOLD: Well, you have to be very precise about the status of Jews and Christians under Islamic rule for centuries. Under Islam, Jews and Christians were seen as people of the book. Which means they weren't like infidels, you know, Kefir [PH], who you forcibly convert to Islam. But there were second class citizens that were forced to pay discriminatory taxes, like the ____ tax, known as jizy [PH] in Arabic, or a land tax, called jirage [PH]. In fact, in the early Middle Ages, there were still substantial Jewish land ownership in Israel and Palestine, in the 7th, 8th and 9th century. But the burden of these discriminatory taxes led to many Jews getting off the land, and the land being taken over by Arab landlords. But, at least, given the era that we lived in, at that time, Jews were protected from being killed by Arab rulers. And so, in a certain sense, as Jews were being burned in a church in York, at that time, in England, they at least were allowed to survive and physically live under Arab rule. ..........So, one could say that in fact, there was a certain minimal degree of tolerance of Jews, but it wasn't a flourishing existence. What happened was that during the 19th Century, the Arab world imported many of the anti-Semitic motifs from Christian Europe, into the Middle East. And you have, for example, the famous 1840 DamasCUs Blood Libel [PH], which was based on a blood libel derived from Europe. You also had Arab interests in the protocols of the _____, which was, again, a forgery that came out of Russia. , So, to say that the Jews lived wonderfully under Arab rule, would be misrepresenting historical fact. But, at the same time, at least, Jews and Christians had a degree of safety, that perhaps they might not have had in other parts of the world at the time. ,00:03:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible) that was here this morning also mentioned, in disCUssing the partition plan, he (Inaudible) and he said, the partition plan was unfair because 30% - or 20% of the land was owned by Jews, and actually more of it was owned by Palestinians, and it was a totally lopsided situation, where Jews were being given sovereignty over 50% ____ much less. What are we missing (Inaudible)? ,00:03:27:00>>>DORE GOLD: Of course, much of the land ownership in the early part of the 20th Century, in the British Mandatory Palestine was from absentee Arab landlords living in Lebanon. And you had, also, Palestinian peasants working the land. This also created a sense, among the Palestinians, that when the Jewish agency brought the land from the rich land owners, what about the poor peasants that were working the land, and created a sense of unfairness or injustice. But there was an effort, over the last century, by Jews around the world who were putting their pennies and dimes into little charity boxes of the Jewish National Fund, to buy the land that we developed. And the issue of sovereignty, of course, came later. ,00:04:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: They say that Israel - the hatred of America, on part of the terrorists, is because they support Israel. Might it be reversed? Might Israel really be just the larger hatred of western society in general, or might it be the opposite? ,00:04:50:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, one of the questions that motivated me to take up nine months of my work time, and write a book called Hatred's Kingdom, was to answer the question that President Bush asked right after 9/11 - why do they hate us? And what I discovered was that the way that Wajabi Islam developed in Saudi Arabia, from where 15 of the 19 hijackers came from, was that in the 1960's and 1970's it became more and more preocCUpied with what they called crusaderism, which was a reference to the west. _____, as they would call them. And, in fact, the hatred of the west emanated from these deviant off-chutes of Islam like in the Arabian peninsula, which (let me try to rephrase this) - ,00:05:49:00>>>DORE GOLD: You know, one of the reasons why I took off nine months to write this book, Hatred's Kingdom, was because I wanted to answer the question that President Bush, himself, asked after 9/11, why do they hate us? And it became crystal clear to me, after a short period of time, that the hatred of the west did not emanate from the Arab-Israel conflict. Osama Bin Laden, for example, was much more preocCUpied with Czechnia, Kashmir, and with other conflicts involving Moslem radicals around the world, than he was with the Arab-Israel issue. And in fact, many Arab intellectuals have pointed that out. ,00:06:50:00>>>DORE GOLD: What motivated the September 11th attacks, and what continues to motivate Al Qaeda, is a fundamental hatred of western civilization. And Israel is only considered a microcosm of a much bigger tapestry. In fact, if you use the Iranian language, the Iranians refer to Israel as the little Satan, and they refer to the United States as the great Satan. So that Israel is despised because it's seen as an outpost to the west. The west isn't despised because of its support of Israel. ,00:07:10:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You once talked about - that the Sharon government agonizes over trying to spare as many civilians as possible. As a government official, can you testify to the degree of indifference between Israel agonizing over trying to minimize civilian causalities, at least to their own soldiers? ,00:07:23:00>>>DORE GOLD: I can share with you - I was called into a meeting in the planning branch of the Israel Army, about the time of the Jeanine incident. We were expecting a special investigatory group to come from the security council, or from the office of Secretary General _____, and we had to prepare for that eventuality. And I recall sitting with a military man who sat next to me on the left, who had a pile of army doctrine manuals, from different armies. And these different western armies explained, what do you do when you face a terrorist threat from a built up area like a city, what type of weaponry do you use. So these manuals all called for air strikes, they called for the use of artillery in built up areas with civilians, they called for the use of flame throwers. ,Well, I can tell you, the Israeli Army in Jeanine, did not use air strikes, it didn't use artillery, and it didn't use flame throwers. In fact, to the contrary, Israel sent in its soldiers, its ground forces, in diffiCUlt house to house combat, threatening the lives of our own soldiers so they could save the lives of innocent Palestinians. In the Jeanine battle, we lost about twenty-three Israeli soldiers. These were married men, they were from the ____. There are many orphans, as a result of those losses, today. Young children who don't - will never see their fathers again. And the reason why Israel sent in those ground soldiers, is because we don't carpet bomb Palestinian refugee camps. If there are terrorists there, we use our special forces, our ground units, in order to find those who are engaged in terrorism, without causing injury to innocent Palestinians. ,00:09:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Another charge that was raised by the Palestinian people; look at the difference in numbers. The Israelis (Inaudible). In light of Israeli concern, how do you achieve that ,statistical (Inaudible)? ,00:09:37:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, one thing is for certain, I think you have to look, not so much at numbers, I think you have to look at the strategies of both sides. The Palestinian military strategy, if you can call it that, is to target Israeli civilians. When they strap dynamite to the body of a young eighteen year old Palestinian, and tell him to walk into a hotel on March 27th, 2002, to kill as many Israelis who are having their Passover Satyr, together, that is an act which is intended to kill innocent civilians. When Israel sends an apache helicopter in the air, on the basis of intelligence, destroys a vehicle with three terrorists inside, and in that vehicle there is an innocent civilian. Israel is not directing its fire at civilians, its directing its fire at those who want to kill our civilians. There's a huge asymmetry between what both sides are doing. ,00:10:55:00>>>INTERVIEWER: The reality of the Oslo cause, you mentioned (Inaudible) today. You turn on the television and you just see Israeli checkpoints, Israeli reocCUpation ____. Is it today, has it gone back to a situation where it can (Inaudible) or are these defense measures in a war? ,00:11:01:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, I think we have to understand what has happened. You know, Israel signed the Oslo accords, in good faith, in September of 1993. In implementing the Oslo Agreements, Israel withdrew its military government over the Palestinians, and put in its place the Palestinian authority; a Palestinian government, under Yasser Arafat. So, that by the time we get to September 2000, when Arafat launches his war against Israel, the Palestinians are not under military ocCUpation. They have their own government. They don't have an independent state, but they're not under military ocCUpation, either. And the entire Oslo Agreement was also based, not just on the concept of Palestinian grievances, but on the concept of - on the basis of Palestinian responsibility. We're giving you this territory, you have to govern it. And you have to take responsibility for security in those areas. But what happened? Those Palestinian cities, which now came under the Palestinian authority of Yasser Arafat, became vast bases for Hamas, for Islamic Jihad, to launch suicide attacks in the heart of Israeli cities; buses went up in flames, explosions in the heart of Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, even _____. And hundreds of Israelis have died. ,So now that the Israeli forces have had to reenter Palestinian cities, they've done so because the Palestinian security services failed to take responsibility for the territories that we turned over to them under the Oslo Agreement. Israelis do not want to be in Palestinian cities. They don't want to be going in and finding suspects and interrogating them. What we want is a Palestinian democratic government which takes responsibility for the areas under its control, including, I should say even especially, security. If that happens, we can ZOOM OUT from Palestinian cities, and there can be a Palestinian self-governing authority in the future. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,00:13:10:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What is motivating a young Palestinian to take his life like this? What kind of incentives could be placed? ,00:13:23:00>>>DORE GOLD: You know, most people who look at these suicide bombings from the outside think that a young person feels a sense of deprivation one day, opens up the refrigerator, nothing is there. He's seeing that people are wealthy on the other side of the fence. (Let me start again, that's not good). ,You know, most people who, for years, looked at the phenomenon of the suicide bombings in Israel, think that Palestinians, out of a sense of deprivation, or out of a sense of anger and rage, decide, spontaneously, to strap dynamite to themselves, walk into a crowded Israeli restaurant, and kill dozens of civilians. But terrorism is not just a spontaneous act. It requires a vast infrastructure to support it. It requires someone to purchase, and to acquire the weaponry, the explosive materials. It requires someone to transport those explosive materials to a forward position near an Israeli city. It requires somebody to gather intelligence, to find out that Jews go to the market place on Thursday, before the Sabbath, to make all their purchases. And therefore, that's an ideal date for time, for committing a suicide bombing. ,And finally, and I think perhaps most importantly, it requires brainwashing young people with religious doctrination, in order for them to believe that by taking their lives they will better their spiritual condition; that they will go directly to heaven and, on their day of judgment, they will proceed to a Islamic concept of paradise with 72 virgins, being able to bring their relatives to this even in the future. This religious indoctrination, I think, is one of the central elements in the motivation behind suicide bombers. There's a parallel element, of course, as well, which is the financial inducements given by states, by Iraq, of Saddam Hussein, or Saudi Arabia under King ____, and under Crown Prince Abdula [PH], who are pouring huge amounts of money, perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars into Palestinian society to pay the families of suicide bombers. So that a young man who comes from a family of twelve or thirteen children can at least hope that by him taking his life he will be regarded by his family as a hero, as a shahid [PH], as a martyr. And he will also bring about tremendous financial benefit to his family, in the form of a five, ten, or twenty thousand dollar payment. ,00:15:50:00>>>INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible) ,00:15:57:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, we used to believe that suicide bombers were probably unmarried, were probably young, that they wouldn't give their lives and leave their families without a father. But we found that most of those profiles broke down. Many people in the west used to believe that suicide bombers were poor. But what we saw, for example, in the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, is that these suicide bombers came from Saudi families who were well to do. Many of them could have gone and taken their flight training background, and flown Saudi princes in their Gulf Stream aircraft. But, in stead, for ideological reasons, because of deep, religious motivation, they decided that they preferred to destroy symbols of American civilization, and kill American civilians in the process. ,00:17:15:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Can Israeli concession with settlements, for example, buy off and placate and satisfy the ideological image of these suicide bombers? ,00:17:30:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well, you know, the big question is, what's the motivation? If the motivation was a limited parcel of territory, which the Palestinians want independence over, then one could make the argument that by simply Israel pulling back from disputed territory and giving it to the Palestinians, the whole threat of suicide bombing would end. But if you analyze the motivation of the organizations, that are sending these suicide bombers against Israel, they don't want a piece of the West Bank, they don't want a state in the Gaza Strip, they want Israel. And as a result, by Israel simply giving a settlement, or pulling back unilaterally, you wouldn't be ending the process of suicide bombing. We might be accelerating it, by showing that we could no longer withstand the threat that we're facing, and that we were pulling back, and we're on the run. ,00:17:55:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Settlements, just one thing about them, are - there seems to be a grievance, an obstacle for piece, a problem blocking the possibility of (Inaudible). Is there any acCUracy to that? ,00:18:03:00>>>DORE GOLD: Settlements are not really the issue. Settlements are sitting on territory, and territory is disputed. Israel has claims in the West Bank and Gaza, for seCUre borders, under Resolution 242. The Palestinians have claims in the West Bank and Gaza, for their Palestinian state. If you understand that these are disputed territories, the land is the issue. How much land do all the settlements sit on in the West Bank? If you actually could take a tape measure and figure out how much land the built up areas of settlements are sitting on, low and behold you would find that the settlements are sitting on 1.36% of the entire West Bank. Therefore, the settlements are an overstated issue. They may attract a lot of CNN and BBC cameras, but they are not the fundamental issue holding up an Israeli and Palestinian agreement. They are not the issue that is blocking peace. ,00:19:30:00>>>INTERVIEWER: If there were a credible Palestinian partner that could come up with a solution for a Palestinian self rule, balanced by _____, would settlements sabotage the whole process? ,00:19:45:00>>>DORE GOLD: Not at all. Because, in fact, the settlements are many times located in areas of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, that Israeli governments, for years, have thought, are vital for Israel's defense. For example, there's a settlement called Ofla [PH], north of Jerusalem. Now, the settlement itself doesn't provide Israel with security, it's not, you know, young couples with baby carriages that are going to stop and Iraqi division from coming down into northern Jerusalem. But it happens at the settlement of Ofla, is next to Bahazur [PH], the main early warning station of the Israeli Air Force, Israel's Norad [PH]. And therefore, by retaining that settlement of Ofla, we're helping hold - we're helping Israel hold on to the Bahazur early warning station. And in many cases, the settlements, which were mapped out by Israel's Ministry of Defense, in the 1970's or the late 1960's, far defending partiCUlar Israeli security interests, that Israel would hope to retain, in any future territorial settlement between Israel and the Palestinians. ,00:20:10:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Just an elaboration on that. What is the reason why Israel can't go back to June 4th, 1967? Where is geostrategic, geographical reasons? ,00:20:26:00>>>DORE GOLD: Well one has to recall, in the June 1967 Six Day War, Israel came under attack from the West Bank sector. Jerusalem, our civilians, were hit by Jordanian infantry, and by Jordanian artillery. Jordan's armored forces were massed in the West Bank, and about to take over the narrower portions of Israel, near the Mediterranean. And because of that, that United Nations security Council, back in November of 1967, recognized that Israel entered The West Bank in a war of self defense. And, as a result, Israel was entitled, entitled to defense of - [let me start again.] And, as a result, Israel was entitled to defense of borders which would not be the same as the June 4th lines. Those lines happened to be where the Jordanian and Israeli armies stopped, in 1949. There were never permanent, political borders. ,00:22:00:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Another point, what did Israel have in common with the war on terror? How does Israel - the Israeli front resemble, and help as a - help in the larger American war on terror? ,00:22:10:00>>>DORE GOLD: The war Israel is facing, from organizations like Hamas and Islamic Jihad, is not a war over some limited piece of territory, or some kind of narrow grievance, it is an anti-civilizational war. It's an attempt to destroy Israel as a free democracy in the Middle East. Hamas, it's no surprise, is alive with Al Qaeda, who has much larger goals of not just taking the piece of the United States, or having some limited grievances in Europe, it wants to destroy American civilization. If we can demonstrate that it is possible to defeat these terrorist organizations, first and foremost militarily, economically, and finally, politically, there may be a chance, in the larger struggle against terrorism, to do the same. Because, ultimately, what we have to do is eliminate the military threat. But, at the same time, demonstrate a path towards co-existence with the Arab world, and with the Islamic world. Israel is determined to do that, and hopefully our western partners, our democratic partners in the U.S. and Europe, will do the same. ,00:22:20:00>>>INTERVIEWER: I have one point, does Jerusalem say something about Israel's claim and why it's worth the fuss and (Inaudible)? ,00:23:09:00>>>DORE GOLD: You know, over the years I became very close to the former prisoner of Zion [PH], Natan Sharanski [PH], who, of course, was in solitary confinement in a Soviet prison. And he shared with me his viewpoint that, first of all, what renovated or what restored the identity of Soviet Jews, who are under communisms for more than 50 years, was the identification with Jerusalem. And when he was in prison, what gave him strength, was the sentence, (Inaudible) - next year in Jerusalem. ,Jerusalem has a deep, spiritual, almost mystical relationship with the Jewish people. It's our direction of prayer. It is the city that has been the capitol of the Jewish people for three thousand years, even though we were forcibly thrown out of Jerusalem by the Roman Empire, had only come back after five hundred years. If the Jewish people were to ever give up sovereignty in Jerusalem, were to ever conceive Jerusalem, it would be a fundamental blow against the identity of the Jewish people as a whole. ,In a certain sense, I would say, over the last number of centuries, Jews have been divided among themselves, over whether we have a responsibility first and foremost to ourselves, a partiCUlar responsibility, or a universalistic responsibility to the entire human race, to all of mankind. Jerusalem is the one case, the one area where there is two responsibilities to converge, because in protecting the rights of the Jewish people, and the rights of Israel, to sovereignty in Jerusalem, we are fulfilling our universalistic mission to protecting Jerusalem, as a city open to all faiths. The moment we let down our guard and give up Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, we are abandoning our responsibility to all mankind, to keeping Jerusalem; a city that's open, a city of coexistence for all the great religions. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS]
THE SITUATION ROOM 4PM
/n00:00:00:00 THE SITUATION ROOM 4-5PM. TOPICS: Humanitarian Crisis in Haiti. GUESTS: Margaret Aguirre, Director Of Global Communications, International Medical Corps; Frances Fragos Townsend, CNN Nat ...
United States monitoring Cuba and enforcing Kennedy's shipment quarantine order during the Cuban Missle Crisis
Community fallout shelters being stocked. Lorries and trucks on road carry supplies. View of Red Ball trucking line truck. Aerial, exterior view of United Nations Building in New York City. View inside United Nations building. United Nation Ambassador Stevenson asks the USSR delegate whether there are missile bases on Cuba. President Kennedy signs Quarantine order on what materials may be shipped to Cuba, to begin 10am on October 24, 1962. B-52 bombers take off, taking 24 hour missions. Interceptors and fighters take off. Views on aircraft carriers with fueling and takeoff operations on flight deck. Radar dishes and radio communications. U.S. battleship at sea. U.S. intercepts Soviet tanker and allows her to proceed. Reconnaissance aircraft over Cuba. Views of White House. SAC bombers and anti aircraft missiles on 5 to 15 minute alert to handle any critical situation. Interiors of control room inside the Headquarters of American Air Defense Command. Location: United States USA. Date: October 1962.
Chrstopher - Newser
WARREN CHRISTOPHER SAYS THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS-- THE GORE CAMP IS IN FACT FOLLOWING CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.
19 20 National edition: [7 April 2023 issue]
FR3 / France 3