00:00:00:00 SOT by Bill Fugazy, on being anti-Sinead O'Connor. (0:00)/

07/06/73 C0036873 - COLOR JFK AIRPORT, NEW YORK : TOURIST AND MONEY MARKET. CUT STORY "TOURSITS AND MONEY MARKET" SHOWS: HIT SOF: (SHOT 7/6/73 62FT) FUGAZY, WILLIAM - SOF ECONOMIC CONDITIONS - GENERAL TOURISM - GENERAL CURRENCY QUESTION - US XX / 62 FT / 16 ORIG / COLOR /

BOXING FUGAZY VS. DEMPSEY. NEW YORK CITY. 3/26/29. JACK FUGAZY, JACK DEMPSEY & PETE ED? COLES SIT AT DESK. DEMPSEY SIGNS CONTRACT. DAN? ENTERS. MEN DISCUSS BOUT WITH MAX SCHMELLING. ART DECO DECOR. HIGHLIGHTS: 02 44 32 DAN & DEMPSEY SPEAKING

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Joan Jett has a message for you...she's been really busy since her '80s hit, "I Love Rock and Roll". The rock queen stepped off her plane and into an interview with local reporters before her show tonight in the Twin Cities...and talked about a new movie she's starring in this winter.(SOT) Joan's own record label...Black Heart Records...is doing great. She's signed artist like Fugazi and former members of Public Enemy. She's also got a greatest hits C-D out.

Host Robert Lipsyte in the studio introduces his guests: Jim Bouton, Former Yankee Pitcher, Author; and Sportcaster; Robert Guerland, Philosophy Professor NYU; Father James DiGiacomo, Jesuit Priest; and Bill Fugazi, Businessman/Civic Leader and longtime friend of Steinbrenner.

Fugazi

FRIENDS AND ADMIRERS OF NEW YORK’S MAYOR GIULIANI THROW A GALA BASH IN THE CITY TO CELEBRATE HIS EIGHT YEARS IN OFFICE.

CUT TO INTERVIEW WITH BRITISH POST PUNK PROGRESSIVE ROCK BAND, MARILLION. THEY TALK ABOUT THE COMPARISON BETWEEN THEM AND GENISIS AND DISCUSS HOW THEY ARE A 70'S INFLUENCED BAND, AND WHAT THEY THINK OF MUSIC VIDEO, THE IDEA OF SELLING VIDEO, THEIR NEXT ALBUM "FUGAZI", THEIR MAKE-UP AND LOOK ON STAGE AND WHAT ROCK AND ROLL MEANS TO THEM. THEY LOOK AT LENS AND SAY "BLOW ME CHUCK" AS REQUESTED BY MTV INTERVIEWER.

Two toddlers from Siberia have been flown to New York to recive life saving heart surgery, and all the funds were raised through donations.

The Eleventh Hour, Show #225 Title: Steinbrenner (aka "the Boss") Guests: Jim Bouton, Former Pitcher, Author, Sportscaster; Robert Guerland, Philosophy Professor NYU; Father James DiGiacomo, Jesuit Priest; Bill Fugazi, Businssm and and good Friend of Steinbenner. Rec: 9/21/89 Description: The Eleventh Hour interview with people who knew and worked with George Steinbrenner,AKA the Boss, controversial principal owner and managing partner of Major League Baseball team, New York Yankees; and CEO of American Shipbuilding Corp. Scenes from the unofficial "George Must Go Banner Contest".

INTERVIEW CONTINUED Jim Bouton 20:35 I think that's a clue into the insight here. What he really hasn't. You see, he played some football in college, but he really never made it to the pros. And I think he's a very he's a frustrated athlete. And I think this is his his attempt to play for the New York Yankees or at that level Robert Lipsyte 20:50 when you're in his box. Bill is his body English. He's moving with the pitches with Bill Fugazi 20:56 every play. By the way, you're wrong, john, I mean, he may not have been a pro football player. He's a very good athlete. He was a top runner. He competed in Melrose games. And he's a good athlete, and boy, you know, he's no puss. I mean, he's a tough guy. He's not, he doesn't need anyone to protect them or be around him. Jim Bouton 21:14 he punched somebody in an elevator once, didn't he. I mean, how many grown men get into a fight in an elevator Robert Lipsyte 21:20 here, he got both wearing New York Yankee World Series ring, right? He earned his Well, you earned yours too. You're a friend of George's. Bill Fugazi 21:29 that's one of the great pleasures of my life. Let me just say this to you. As far as the elevator goes, Jim Bouton 21:33 you're not exactly an objective. Bill Fugazi 21:37 I'll criticize George when he has to be criticized. But I mean, you mentioned the elevator. I happen to know about that incident. George was attacked in New York was they were booing New York and the guys were drunk. They wouldn't didn't even want their names printed. The George swing and well, you know, George wasn't a heavyweight champion. Well, maybe he doesn't have to throw a punch. I tell him he should throw it for the gut, not for the head. But that's neither here nor there. You can say what you want you can be for George's moves. You can be against George's will. George Steinbrenner does one good thing after another for this city, for this state for this country, for charities, more than anyone knows, just talked to the coach at Grambling. They didn't have any money, George flew to team to play a game for them. No one prints that stuff, just what he does for the police and fire in New York. I know what he does. I see the operations that he pays for, Robert Lipsyte 22:31 let's say bottom line. I mean, as our season opens, his season is ending in the Yankees have not done well? That's right. We had a bad year. We had a bad year. Oh, yeah, you your Yankees are Bill Fugazi 22:42 I'm a Yankee all my life. I've been going to the stadium with my Father, Lord, have mercy on him since I was six or seven years old. So Robert Lipsyte 22:49 well, your Yankee too. Do you say we know I don't. How do you fit the end of the season? Well, yeah, it's fine. You're glad that the Yankees are losing aren't you? Jim Bouton 22:58 Well, I think No, no, I wouldn't say I'm glad I just I don't feel that it's a tragedy that the Yankees aren't winning, because they think that if the fans are honest about it, they'll realize that the Yankees have won more than their share of pennants metric. They've won 20 World Champions, I figured it out 20 World Championships and in approximately 80 years that baseball has been played. And if you feel if you if you realize that every team in the major leagues is entitled to win one World Championship, there should be one every 26 years. So by those rather by that calculation, the Yankees are not due to win a World Championship until the year 2474. Because cubs gotta win a whole bunch that you know, I mean, the Minnesota boy. So Robert Lipsyte 23:39 Bob has a philosophy of balance of nature. Prof Bob Gurland 23:42 I think that one thing is true. I think that the fans in the main do expect at times the teams to lose. And I think you know that they don't really necessarily hold George accountable for the fact that the team is losing. What they don't like is really his style. And his his his focus on Celebrity was interesting. I did a quick experiment in one of my classes this morning, I asked my class if there are any students in the class who had no interest in sport and baseball whatsoever. 20 of them raise their hand, all 20 knew who Steinbrenner was and all 20 of them could pick them out of a police lineup. I asked them who was the owner of the New York Mets equally loved and equally adored. Not a single one of those 20 knew the owner of the Mets and I think that's rather interesting, because it indicates somehow how Steinbrenner has placed himself. Visa v vie fan in New York

INTERVIEW Father James DiGiacomo 19:34 explain him. Robert Lipsyte 19:35 Yeah. What can you say about? Father James DiGiacomo 19:39 Well, you know, he loves to witness you know, as Bill said, Surely his heart's in the right place. But, you know, Bill, it's true, you know, they make money and he closes deals and so on. But but we have fans, you know, we'd like to see the team win. And if and if they don't win, we'd like to see them lose with a little dignity. You know, when you hire Billy five times. It's silly. You feel humiliated. And Bill Fugazi 20:05 Billy didn't mind too much Father James DiGiacomo 20:07 Oh yeah, but We do. It's ridiculous. Robert Lipsyte 20:10 Well also, I mean, the way the way he how role models are supposed to be these ballplayers who he manipulates treats like pets and intimidate us. I want I want to read my favorite. Everybody's got a favorite George Steinbrenner quote. This is something he said to me about a year ago and amazed me. He said, I'm one owner that they're not going to pull the wool over my eyes. I've been there. I've worn the jock strap.

INTERVIEW CONTINUES: Robert Lipsyte 11:26 you think he means well? Jim Bouton 11:29 Well, by his own by his own code, yes. Robert Lipsyte 11:31 do you think his behavior is appropriate. Jim Bouton 11:37 I don't think it's I don't think it's appropriate. I think it's self defeating. I think he's, he's almost the perfect model of how not to manage. He violates all the rules of good management, how not to run a business. You need to respect your people, you need to give them credit for the success. That's how you managed successfully see one of the problems George has that he said, He's, I am the Yankees. He's going to apologize when they do bad and the players also know that he's going to take credit when the Yankees the Yankees, whatever, when George would say this is my gift to New York City. No, I, I did this. He's He's out front. And as you said, He's the star of the team. And I think the players resent that on some level. Robert Lipsyte 12:14 Does that have an impact on their performance? Jim Bouton 12:16 Absolutely. absolutely. Um, baseball, at that level is there's a lot of mental going on. When you're up at bat, when you're out there on the mound. The difference between success and failure, a lot times has to do with what's going on in your mind consciously and unconsciously. And I think that unconsciously, the players sabotage George Steinbrenner on some level. First of all, they don't like him, because they know he doesn't respect them as people. So they're looking to sabotage him, just like disgruntled union employee doesn't tighten the bolts quite like they should. Okay, so these guys are up at bat. And they know that no matter what happens, something good will happen. Either they'll win the game, they'll be happy because they won, or they lost the game. And Steinbrenner is going to be suffering from this. And so there's this perverse pleasure that they get out of losing, and they'll never quite win, because you can't go up to home plate with the part of you hoping for a win. And the other part not caring, because you're going to get back at George Steinbrenner. And I think that's what's going on. Robert Lipsyte 13:16 Well, as a fan, something like that. Could outrage you? Prof Bob Gurland 13:19 Well, I, I think it's what Jim says is interesting, because I always look at George's relation as a power relation both not only to the fans, but to his players. And interestingly, that power differential lies in money on one side, and talent on the other. And money in a peculiar way, controls talent. Money, says the talent, I'm going to give you the arena to exhibit your talent. But at the same time, I had the power and that power to say, I'm going to train you to Oakland, I'm going to have you sit on a bench, I'm going to send you to Columbus. And in that kind of dialectic, George really is somehow telling the player, I have ascendancy over you, I have the money even though you have the talent, Jim Bouton 14:04 I own your contract. And therefore you have to do what I say I'm the boss and the players don't mind the owner owning their contract, but they don't want the owner owning their soul you see and that's what's really going on here. The players don't want their soul owned. They don't want Steinbrenner to own their performance and to own their their guts and whatever they're putting into the game to see and he takes credit for that and they don't want him to get credit for it. Bill Fugazi 14:29 Jim, I think you're so wrong. Let me just say this the I've been around these players for a long time. And I can tell you they chase George. And I can tell you this that all of these players that he had problems with the Reggie Jackson's the Tommy John's, they all call and they all want to come back and when they come back, they're thrilled. And let me tell you something else that people don't realize. That's true. That's true when I was with Reggie, when he was here when he was fighting with Joe. First of all, George has a lot of principal George had no reason and interest plus interest on his principal. And by the way, there's no team in baseball ever made the money the New York Yankees do George bought the Yankees for some $8 million. You couldn't buy the New York Yankees today for half a billion Jim Bouton 15:14 Yeah, but not because of George Steinbrenner because they're in the New York market Bill Fugazi 15:17 No, no. Do the Mets ever make a half a billion dollars on a TV deal. Jim Bouton 15:23 They haven't I don't know. Maybe they'll not even close a deal. Well George Steinbrenner selling Mickey Mantle Joe DiMaggio, the history of Yankee Stadium he's selling all of it you think the TV people are buying George Steinbrenner? Bill Fugazi 15:34 I think they're buying the New York Yankees right? Jim Bouton 15:36 But they're buying what if what if they were what if they had won five pennants in a row? What do you think kind of a deal Bill Fugazi 15:41 There isnt an owner in baseball was bright enough to negotiate the deal that George Steinbrenner just did with Madison Square. He got Jim Bouton 15:49 marvin miller could, marvin miller could have negotiated that kind of a deal for all the teams baseball survives in spite of its ownership. It's a great game. The fans love it. The players love to play it. They've got a lot of talent, and it's successful financially. In spite of those guys who sit in the office, they're superfulous Bill Fugazi 16:05 Jim, show me one... Robert Lipsyte 16:06 We have come we have come to both praise and bury him. Let's hold on just a second. If George Steinbrenner was a ballplayer, they would call him a gamer, a tough, smart competitor who hates to lose and example of George in action.

INTERVIEW Bill Fugazi 7:20 But he says a lot of those things with tongue in cheek Robert Lipsyte 7:25 I think that Maybe we're missing the point. I mean, this is sports you're supposed to win. Maybe if Adolf Hitler could hit for you, you should play it off Hitler and rightfield. Does the Steinbrenner know something we don't? Jim Bouton 7:36 I don't think so. I don't think he's been as successful as he could have been considering the amount of money he spent and the amount of talent that comes through this city. You know, a lot of ballplayers want to play in New York City, because it's the Yankees. And with that, he hasn't been as successful as he should have been. Robert Lipsyte 7:53 Bob, you don't like George Steinbrenner Prof Bob Gurland 7:55 I don't want to say that it's something Personal. I don't like George Steinbrenner. I think that he exercises his power badly. It's a matter of style. And that it's an interesting thing. It's a function of this incredible power differential. He actually holds the city hostage, he controls the love object of a city. And the fans are essentially impotent. That is they have no input into somehow adjusting or dealing with the object of their affection. And that object is New York Yankees and George owns them. And he can do with him as he wishes. Robert Lipsyte 8:37 Do you think he's toying with us? Prof Bob Gurland 8:40 No, but I think that essentially, you know, he enjoys the celebrity that he gets as a result of having this power and having this incredible visibility, all owners is essentially in relation to their fans had that power. But George exercises it in a way that I think really may be reprehensible, Robert Lipsyte 9:01 reprehensible, this is a man that they also called babe ruthless. Father, Jim, what do you think of George Steinbrenner? Well, we're a man and a man of religion. Father James DiGiacomo 9:12 Well, you know, as Bob says, He uses the power of badly it seems to me in any business, including the business of baseball, you know, you hire people, you let them do the job. If they don't do the job, you fire them. But the thing is, while they're, while they're on the job, you got to let them do it. And he doesn't. And the other thing that I object to is that, sure it's an ego trip for an owner and it's his team and he ought to enjoy it. But But he, an owner shares a team with the fans, that they're our team too. And so he should be accountable. And I think he takes a kind of perverse pleasure almost in you know, in being this disliked intensely by people, and then the resentment that arouses them. I think that said, Robert Lipsyte 9:58 Bill, you probably know better than anybody here. What do we need to know about George? Bill Fugazi 10:03 First of all, George is just a big fan. George views baseball as a fan. And no one. He really doesn't care what I say he doesn't care. He doesn't mind. He doesn't like bad press, but he's not afraid of it. George is a very tough guy. But he's a very good guys very generous guy. First of all, he loves the Yankees. He loves the tradition. Has he made mistakes? Well, sure he has. But he does everything because he thinks it's best for the team. And for the fans. Nobody wants to win more than him. Now, Jim pointed out that maybe some of his actions have cost the Yankees a lot of championship. Yet the Yankees have won more championships than any other team in baseball, when Steinbrenner came in and George jokes about it, but the second baseman wore a batting helmet on defense. So that's how bad they were. But I think he did. He's done a lot. And let me say something else. If George's as bad as some of the people say, and I don't believe it. Why is he so strong in baseball? I mean, I've been around all the owners. And I can tell you this, the late Bob Giamatti, will tell you that no one has the input into baseball, as George does. And it's because he's smart. And he knows what he's doing. mistakes. Yes, but he means well,

INTERVIEW CONTINUES Jim Bouton 24:39 is trying to win something that's not his to win. Really, Robert Lipsyte 24:42 Father Jim, do you think that he could own a team in the City of God? Do you think that he's a good man? Father James DiGiacomo 24:48 Oh, I know he's a good man. The things that bill talks about that's that's very Robert Lipsyte 24:52 what irks so many New Yorkers about him? Father James DiGiacomo 24:55 Well I mean, he has two different lives. I mean to live the life of philanthropy or public service. That that has to be said and I'm glad bill did the thing is that you know when you're running a team all I say is you know sure you're going to lose some times but you know, don't contribute to the losing if they don't want to be your fault and give the team a decent chance and don't get in the way. And if we have to lose Let's lose with dignity. Robert Lipsyte 25:19 Do you think that maybe Steinbrenner doesn't understand who owns the team? If they were New York on their back, they ask us for their for our allegiance. We own the team Father James DiGiacomo 25:34 He doesn't respect people. I think he loves a lot of people he does a lot of good.I think the problem is he doesn't respect people. There's a real difference there Robert Lipsyte 25:38 in terms of his players, and it gets paid back by taking something off somebody's fastball when they're thinking at the boss is going to take credit if you win Jim Bouton 25:46 unconsciously they're looking to sabotage this guy. Prof Bob Gurland 25:49 I think he's a money changer in the temple. I think in effect in an interesting way the fans connection to the Yankees is quasi religious. I mean, whether you want to look at it as it as an entertainment or not. It is an object of reverence people in New York love the Yankees and I think that George in a sense, abuses the object and we add the fan or I'm not a Yankee fan, by the way I'm a Yankee hater from way back. For as they say, pity me. I'm a Detroit fan. Robert Lipsyte 26:22 Bill we're almost out of time as George watches this program. Do you think he'll be pleased that we're talking about him Bill Fugazi 26:28 He'll laugh. I mean, George does not get mad at this stuff. And let me tell you something else. I've traveled all around the world with George. I've been at every airport when I've never seen a fan, abused him or yell at him. And no matter where he goes, we were in Rome. They mobbed them in Rome they oh they don't abuse. Robert Lipsyte 26:46 what do you think about the boss? we'd like you to talk back to us. We want to read on the air your opinions, thoughts, comments about our show our guests, the issues will engage the season. Send your letters to talk back, the 11th hour 356 West 58th Street, New York, New York 100 19 Be sure to include your telephone number. Looking forward to hearing from you have a nice weekend. See you Monday. This is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte.