1967 Israel Six Day War
b&w documentary - Six Day War - 1967 Arab / Israeli War - Israel - Syrian soldiers in tanks - wreckage of civilian village - Israeli troops shell Syrian Heights - tank by - Israeli troops in Quneitra - United Nations Assembly - Soviet Premier Alexei Kosygin - Egyptian prisoners return to Egypt barefoot across Suez Canal - boat crosses canal - moving pov through souk / marketplace - men get haircuts - man smokes hooka - patrol boat on Straights of Tiran - zoom to Israeli flag - Abba Eban speaks at UN - men pray at Western / Wailing Wall - Israelis celebrate - Yitzhak Rabin - pilgrims climb hill in Jerusalem - Middle east
Vincent Lemire
Six-Day War In Middle East Forces Changes
Six-Day War In Middle East Forces Changes At a special session of the United Nations (UN), Soviet Premier Kosygin demands troop withdrawal in the Middle East to original boundaries before the Six Day War, return of all captured territory, and condemns the U.S. for allegedly encouraging Israel. At Camp David Maryland Austrian Prime Minister Harold Houck and Mrs Houck meets with President Johnson. Historic footage of the reunification of City of Jerusalem after the Arab-Israeli Six Day War in 1967. The 19-year old barrier or wall dividing the City of Jerusalem is demolished. Shows pilgrimage of Orthodox Jews flocking to the Wailing Wall (Western Wall).
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Interview with Halevi & B-Roll pt 2
Interview with Yossi Halevi as he drives his car and discusses his new book about a paratrooper in the Israeli army.,3:47:24 to 3:58:08>>>Halevi by his desk in-front of his computer, at times talking on the phone . shots of the view from Halevi's terrace. Halevi's home study. Halevi talking with his wife.,3:58:08 to 4:04:41>>>Halevi talking with his wife in the kitchen. Halevi in his home office on the computer. Shots of the view from Halevi's terrace. Halevi's children enter the house. Halevi and his children.,4:04:41 to 4:16:58>>>Halevi walking down the stairs from his apartment. Halevi in the car driving. Shots of the city streets from the car.,4:16:58 to 4:29:25>>>Halevi walking in the street. Halevi walking by the wall then into the old city. Halevi walking in the old city. Halevi explaining a map that is posted on the street.,4:05:48>>>,Halevi:,There is an event I need to cover for my book, I hope to catch it ..I'm doing a book about the paratroopers who fought in Jerusalem in1967. And one of the paratroopers is head of the movement to rebuild the temple.,Interviewer:,What's his name? ,Halevi:,Ariel, he's not from the Temple Mount faithful, hes from Machon Hamikdash. Machon Hamikdash is the organization that is recreating the ritual objects from the temple. And hes having an event today where they are going to be circling the temple mount. ,Interviewer:,When's that?,04:06:50>>>,Halevi:,Should be at about 5 in the Kotel plaza. What's interesting about the paratroopers who fought in Jerusalem is that the full range of political responses is contained within this group. So you have on the far right, I would say far right to far left. You have of course the settlers and the peace movement but you also have on the far right someone like this Ariel who's head of the Machon Hamikdash of this temple mount institute. And on the far left you have someone who sat in jail for collaborating with the Palestinians. ,04:07:47>>>,So you have a fantastic range of characters. And they all fought together in Jerusalem, right at the wall. ,Interviewer:,Are they all still friendly?,04:08:08>>>,Halvei:,Mixed, mixed you know I'd say that most of them have managed to transcend the political differences. But you certainly have some people there who won't talk to each other for political reasons. ,04:08:36>>>,So I felt it would be very good for the book to , just like you need a scene of me, I need a scene of him,Interviewer:,When is the book coming out?,04:08:45>>>,Halevi:,Not for at least another two years, maybe another three,Interviewer:,In English:,Halevi:,it'll be in English ,For sale in the U.S. It'll be published in the States. And I hope it will be translated into Hebrew. I very much want it to be. This guy is having trouble here,04:09:16>>>,People would be surprised that in Jerusalem we have problems with our cars, we have daily scheduling issues, we have tax issues, not everything is the situation. ,Interviewer:,Just that CNN shows..,04:09:36>>>,Halevi:,Really here's a poor guy who's not at all thinking of a Palestinian state-got to get his car going.,Interviewer:,You knew Isidore from childhood?,04:10:20>>>,Halevi:,Yea we were apparently in camp together. I kinda remember him, I mean we were kids, not exactly the same age. But I do remember him. I should have remembered the name Isidore. It's a great name.,Interviewer:,Where are you from originally?,04:10:46>>>,Halevi:,I'm from Brooklyn, a place called, a little village called Bourgh Park.,Interviewer:,Eyal gives his life story, you've all heard it, no need to transcribe it,Halevi:,And what did you do in the army?,Interviewer:,Eyal talks about the army,Halevi knows areas in Gaza,04:12:20>>>,Halevi:,You know an Israel band called Shaygiz? Great band, really a terrific band. They have a song called Halom hazeh masrich meh new york vad orfiayach. ,Interviewer:,What kind of music?,Halevi:,Good solid rock band.,They have another song, chayil shel meah shearim. Recites lyrics in hebrew..Great band.,04:13:04>>>,This area here is a very important part of my book, This is where the paratroopers fought. One block in, where that mosque is, you have the American consulate across the street. That was the street where one of the toughest battles of the Six Day War happened. And there's a memorial for the paratroopers across the street. And one of the reasons that I was drawn to doing this book on the paratroopers is because my daily life runs along the route of their war experience. We are about to turn into the street that's called paratrooper avenue, that runs along, opposite the gates of the Old City. And I live in a very real sense, I live in the consequences of 1967. ,04:14:16>>>,So its been this great experience for me, rediscovering that period, looking up people who now are of course in their late 50s, 60s. This is now paratrooper avenue , there's going to be a monorail in Jerusalem-,Interviewer:,How long have you been doing the research for the book for,04:15:55>>>,Halevi:,For the last year on and off, not intensively. I hope to put in a lot more work this coming year.,Interviewer:,You write for the New Republic?,Halevi:,Yes the New Republic,Parks car, walking,Halevi:,So what do you want to talk about?,Interviewer:,The last 6 months, since Abu Mazen, how life has changed-,04:17:39>>>,Halevi:,Well at the moment we're having a happy hudna(?). Everybody feels a lot more relaxed. I don't think too many people believe this is going to last. Let's cross the street. I think most people realize that the hudna doesn't have the substance to endure. And I think the reason for that is that Abu Mazen who doesn't have basically right approach, the right intentions, is either unable or unwilling. He's not ready to do the only the move that will make the process work, and that is to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure. Israelis are, ,Israelis are ready to make a big move to resolve this, to make the major and traumatic concessions. But on one condition, and that is that we have some guarantee that we're not creating a terrorist state five minutes away from here. The only way that I personally would be willing to make those kinds of concessions and see to the creation of the Palestinian State would be if I knew that the Palestinians were also sacrificing something for this peace. It's not only going to be me who has to uproot settlements and withdraw and subject my society to the possible threat of civil war. I want to see their society go through the same kind of trauma because otherwise there won't be peace. and if Abu Mazen thinks he can somehow make this segue to a Palestinian state and bribe Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Arafat's militias into joining the Palestinian Police, the Palestinian army which is what hes talking about. Then he's either a fool or a liar. Because that won't bring the necessary conditions for an agreement. ,Films him walking..,04:23:25>>>,Halevi:,I should say something about Tisha B'av, is that necessary?,Well you know this book that I'm doing about the paratroopers is very much related to this fast day. This is the of tisha ba'av, the day when the temple in Jerusalem , which the Palestinians say never existed, was destroyed. And the return of the paratroopers to the old city , to the Western wall, was seen by many Jews at that time in 1967 as an undoing of Tisha ba'av, of the destruction of the temple. And I remember the first time I came to Israel, I was a 14 year old tourist from Brooklyn, and I came at the end of June 1967, a couple weeks after the war, and the atmosphere was so charged here in Israel, there was such a feeling of redemption. That summer, that tisha ba'av , I was with my cousin, my Israeli cousin and he said we don't have to fast anymore because the Kotel,the wall, is in our hands. And we both went, we went downtown, we bought falafel and broke the fast. And it was this sense of unlimited possibility, that we no longer had to mourn, that we no longer had to worry about an existential threat to the Jewish people. ,That was the feeling in 1967. Suffice to say that I fast now on Tisha ba'av and that sense of dread for the survival of the Jewish people is more intense probably than in any time for Jews since the 1940s. , ,04:26:33>>>,So tisha ba'av has once again become very relevant, very central, emotionally to the Israeli calendar, religious Jews.,I'd be very happy to give up on Tisha Ba'av. It's one of the Jewish..It's one of the holidays that I'd be happy to stop observing. For their no longer to be a need for tisha ba'av. ,04:27:30>>>,This is the Armenian quarter here, the entrance to the Armenian quarter. And I spent time here for the previous book that I wrote, which was a journey that I took into Islam and Christianity. And the Armenians are of course a community that are focused on genocide and survival. You can see over here, they've put up these maps of Armenian Genocide. ,What you feel in Jerusalem. In the Armenian quarter, to the Jewish quarter, to the Muslin quarter, to the Christian quarter is just how deep the suffering and the trauma goes in this city, its impossible to experience Jerusalem without moving from one people's trauma to the other and that's the tragedy of Jerusalem and its also the power of Jerusalem. ,04:28:58>>>,I have a friend of mine who wrote an essay about the quarters of Jerusalem and he made a very interesting point that there is essentially three peoples living in the old city of Jerusalem. The Jews, the Armenians, and the Palestinians . And all three of those peoples have known exile.
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Jerusalem [Jewish pilgrims at Wailing Wall observe Tish Bav]
All of Israel ushers in the Jewish New Year with ceremonies by the faithful at the ancient Wailing Wall in the Holy City of Jerusalem. Prayers of joy and thanks are offered.
Religious pilgrims walk on the streets and visit Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, Israel.
Tourist crowd the holy city of Jerusalem, Israel, after it is opened to visitors following the Six Day War of June 1967. Religious pilgrims walk on streets of the city. Thanksgiving ceremony held by Israelis. Dome of the Rock with the Temple Mount and city in the background. View of Mount of Olives and the Damascus Gate. People enter the 'Church of the Holy Sepulchre'. Men walk in religious clothing. Board reads 'Via Dolorosa'. Location: Jerusalem Israel. Date: 1967.
8 p.m.: [August 07, 2022 program]
Israeli Arabs pray at a mosque in Jerusalem and reunite with their families several weeks after Arab-Israeli Six Day War.
Israeli Arabs in a mosque in Jerusalem, Israel. The minaret of Bab al-Silsila (The Chain Gate). They arrive at a mosque and wash their feet. They remove their shoes and enter the mosque for the first time in 20 years after the Israeli government opened the captured shrines for people of all faiths. Men pray at the mosque. Men enter the Mosque of Omar. Israeli Arab families reunite as they hug and greet each other. Location: Jerusalem Palestine. Date: July 4, 1967.
Interview with Dore Gold pt 2
00:00:49:00>>> Well, you have to be very precise about the status of Jews and Christians under Islamic rule for centuries. Under Islam, Jews and Christians were seen as people of the book. Which means they weren't like infidels, you know, Kefir [PH], who you forcibly convert to Islam. But there were second class citizens that were forced to pay discriminatory taxes, like the ____ tax, known as jizy [PH] in Arabic, or a land tax, called jirage [PH]. In fact, in the early Middle Ages, there were still substantial Jewish land ownership in Israel and Palestine, in the 7th, 8th and 9th century. But the burden of these discriminatory taxes led to many Jews getting off the land, and the land being taken over by Arab landlords. But, at least, given the era that we lived in, at that time, Jews were protected from being killed by Arab rulers. And so, in a certain sense, as Jews were being burned in a church in York, at that time, in England, they at least were allowed to survive and physically live under Arab rule. So, one could say that in fact, there was a certain minimal degree of tolerance of Jews, but it wasn't a flourishing existence. What happened was that during the 19th Century, the Arab world imported many of the anti-Semitic motifs from Christian Europe, into the Middle East. And you have, for example, the famous 1840 Damascus Blood Libel [PH], which was based on a blood libel derived from Europe. You also had Arab interests in the protocols of the _____, which was, again, a forgery that came out of Russia. , So, to say that the Jews lived wonderfully under Arab rule, would be misrepresenting historical fact. But, at the same time, at least, Jews and Christians had a degree of safety, that perhaps they might not have had in other parts of the world at the time. INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible) that was here this morning also mentioned, in discussing the partition plan, he (Inaudible) and he said, the partition plan was unfair because 30% - or 20% of the land was owned by Jews, and actually more of it was owned by Palestinians, and it was a totally lopsided situation, where Jews were being given sovereignty over 50% ____ much less. What are we missing (Inaudible)? 00:03:27:00>>> DORE GOLD: Of course, much of the land ownership in the early part of the 20th Century, in the British Mandatory Palestine was from absentee Arab landlords living in Lebanon. And you had, also, Palestinian peasants working the land. This also created a sense, among the Palestinians, that when the Jewish agency brought the land from the rich land owners, what about the poor peasants that were working the land, and created a sense of unfairness or injustice. But there was an effort, over the last century, by Jews around the world who were putting their pennies and dimes into little charity boxes of the Jewish National Fund, to buy the land that we developed. And the issue of sovereignty, of course, came later. INTERVIEWER: They say that Israel - the hatred of America, on part of the terrorists, is because they support Israel. Might it be reversed? Might Israel really be just the larger hatred of western society in general, or might it be the opposite? DORE GOLD: Well, one of the questions that motivated me to take up nine months of my work time, and write a book called Hatred's Kingdom, was to answer the question that President Bush asked right after 9/11 - why do they hate us? And what I discovered was that the way that Wajabi Islam developed in Saudi Arabia, from where 15 of the 19 hijackers came from, was that in the 1960's and 1970's it became more and more preoccupied with what they called crusaderism, which was a reference to the west. _____, as they would call them. And, in fact, the hatred of the west emanated from these deviant off-chutes of Islam like in the Arabian peninsula, which (let me try to rephrase this) - 00:05:49:00>>> You know, one of the reasons why I took off nine months to write this book, Hatred's Kingdom, was because I wanted to answer the question that President Bush, himself, asked after 9/11, why do they hate us? And it became crystal clear to me, after a short period of time, that the hatred of the west did not emanate from the Arab-Israel conflict. Osama Bin Laden, for example, was much more preoccupied with Czechnia, Kashmir, and with other conflicts involving Muslim radicals around the world, than he was with the Arab-Israel issue. And in fact, many Arab intellectuals have pointed that out. ,What motivated the September 11th attacks, and what continues to motivate Al Qaeda, is a fundamental hatred of western civilization. And Israel is only considered a microcosm of a much bigger tapestry. In fact, if you use the Iranian language, the Iranians refer to Israel as the little Satan, and they refer to the United States as the great Satan. So that Israel is despised because it's seen as an outpost to the west. The west isn't despised because of its support of Israel. INTERVIEWER: You once talked about - that the Sharon government agonizes over trying to spare as many civilians as possible. As a government official, can you testify to the degree of indifference between Israel agonizing over trying to minimize civilian causalities, at least to their own soldiers? 00:07:23:00>>> DORE GOLD:, I can share with you - I was called into a meeting in the planning branch of the Israel Army, about the time of the Jeanine incident. We were expecting a special investigatory group to come from the security council, or from the office of Secretary General _____, and we had to prepare for that eventuality. And I recall sitting with a military man who sat next to me on the left, who had a pile of army doctrine manuals, from different armies. And these different western armies explained, what do you do when you face a terrorist threat from a built up area like a city, what type of weaponry do you use. So these manuals all called for air strikes, they called for the use of artillery in built up areas with civilians, they called for the use of flame throwers. ,Well, I can tell you, the Israeli Army in Jeanine, did not use air strikes, it didn't use artillery, and it didn't use flame throwers. In fact, to the contrary, Israel sent in its soldiers, its ground forces, in difficult house to house combat, threatening the lives of our own soldiers so they could save the lives of innocent Palestinians. In the Jeanine battle, we lost about twenty-three Israeli soldiers. These were married men, they were from the ____. There are many orphans, as a result of those losses, today. Young children who don't - will never see their fathers again. And the reason why Israel sent in those ground soldiers, is because we don't carpet bomb Palestinian refugee camps. If there are terrorists there, we use our special forces, our ground units, in order to find those who are engaged in terrorism, without causing injury to innocent Palestinians. INTERVIEWER: Another charge that was raised by the Palestinian people; look at the difference in numbers. The Israelis (,Inaudible). In light of Israeli concern, how do you achieve that statistical (Inaudible)? 00:09:37:00>>> DORE GOLD: Well, one thing is for certain, I think you have to look, not so much at numbers, I think you have to look at the strategies of both sides. The Palestinian military strategy, if you can call it that, is to target Israeli civilians. When they strap dynamite to the body of a young eighteen year old Palestinian, and tell him to walk into a hotel on March 27th, 2002, to kill as many Israelis who are having their Passover Satyr, together, that is an act which is intended to kill innocent civilians. When Israel sends an apache helicopter in the air, on the basis of intelligence, destroys a vehicle with three terrorists inside, and in that vehicle there is an innocent civilian. Israel is not directing its fire at civilians, its directing its fire at those who want to kill our civilians. There's a huge asymmetry between what both sides are doing. INTERVIEWER: The reality of the Oslo cause, you mentioned (Inaudible) today. You turn on the television and you just see Israeli checkpoints, Israeli reoccupation ____. Is it today, has it gone back to a situation where it can (Inaudible) or are these defense measures in a war? 00:11:01:00>>> DORE GOLD: Well, I think we have to understand what has happened. You know, Israel signed the Oslo accords, in good faith, in September of 1993. In implementing the Oslo Agreements, Israel withdrew its military government over the Palestinians, and put in its place the Palestinian authority; a Palestinian government, under Yasser Arafat. So, that by the time we get to September 2000, when Arafat launches his war against Israel, the Palestinians are not under military occupation. They have their own government. They don't have an independent state, but they're not under military occupation, either. And the entire Oslo Agreement was also based, not just on the concept of Palestinian grievances, but on the concept of - on the basis of Palestinian responsibility. We're giving you this territory, you have to govern it. And you have to take responsibility for security in those areas. But what happened? Those Palestinian cities, which now came under the Palestinian authority of Yasser Arafat, became vast bases for Hamas, for Islamic Jihad, to launch suicide attacks in the heart of Israeli cities; buses went up in flames, explosions in the heart of Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, even _____. And hundreds of Israelis have died. ,So now that the Israeli forces have had to reenter Palestinian cities, they've done so because the Palestinian security services failed to take responsibility for the territories that we turned over to them under the Oslo Agreement. Israelis do not want to be in Palestinian cities. They don't want to be going in and finding suspects and interrogating them. What we want is a Palestinian democratic government which takes responsibility for the areas under its control, including, I should say even especially, security. If that happens, we can pull back from Palestinian cities, and there can be a Palestinian self-governing authority in the future. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] INTERVIEWER: What is motivating a young Palestinian to take his life like this? What kind of incentives could be placed? 00:13:23:00>>> DORE GOLD:,You know, most people who look at these suicide bombings from the outside think that a young person feels a sense of deprivation one day, opens up the refrigerator, nothing is there. He's seeing that people are wealthy on the other side of the fence. (Let me start again, that's not good). ,You know, most people who, for years, looked at the phenomenon of the suicide bombings in Israel, think that Palestinians, out of a sense of deprivation, or out of a sense of anger and rage, decide, spontaneously, to strap dynamite to themselves, walk into a crowded Israeli restaurant, and kill dozens of civilians. But terrorism is not just a spontaneous act. It requires a vast infrastructure to support it. It requires someone to purchase, and to acquire the weaponry, the explosive materials. It requires someone to transport those explosive materials to a forward position near an Israeli city. It requires somebody to gather intelligence, to find out that Jews go to the market place on Thursday, before the Sabbath, to make all their purchases. And therefore, that's an ideal date for time, for committing a suicide bombing. ,And finally, and I think perhaps most importantly, it requires brainwashing young people with religious doctrination, in order for them to believe that by taking their lives they will better their spiritual condition; that they will go directly to heaven and, on their day of judgment, they will proceed to a Islamic concept of paradise with 72 virgins, being able to bring their relatives to this even in the future. This religious indoctrination, I think, is one of the central elements in the motivation behind suicide bombers. There's a parallel element, of course, as well, which is the financial inducements given by states, by Iraq, of Saddam Hussein, or Saudi Arabia under King ____, and under Crown Prince Abdula [PH], who are pouring huge amounts of money, perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars into Palestinian society to pay the families of suicide bombers. So that a young man who comes from a family of twelve or thirteen children can at least hope that by him taking his life he will be regarded by his family as a hero, as a shahid [PH], as a martyr. And he will also bring about tremendous financial benefit to his family, in the form of a five, ten, or twenty thousand dollar payment. INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible) DORE GOLD: 00:15:57:00>>> Well, we used to believe that suicide bombers were probably unmarried, were probably young, that they wouldn't give their lives and leave their families without a father. But we found that most of those profiles broke down. Many people in the west used to believe that suicide bombers were poor. But what we saw, for example, in the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, is that these suicide bombers came from Saudi families who were well to do. Many of them could have gone and taken their flight training background, and flown Saudi princes in their Gulf Stream aircraft. But, in stead, for ideological reasons, because of deep, religious motivation, they decided that they preferred to destroy symbols of American civilization, and kill American civilians in the process. INTERVIEWER: Can Israeli concession with settlements, for example, buy off and placate and satisfy the ideological image of these suicide bombers? DORE GOLD: Well, you know, the big question is, what's the motivation? If the motivation was a limited parcel of territory, which the Palestinians want independence over, then one could make the argument that by simply Israel pulling back from disputed territory and giving it to the Palestinians, the whole threat of suicide bombing would end. But if you analyze the motivation of the organizations, that are sending these suicide bombers against Israel, they don't want a piece of the West Bank, they don't want a state in the Gaza Strip, they want Israel. And as a result, by Israel simply giving a settlement, or pulling back unilaterally, you wouldn't be ending the process of suicide bombing. We might be accelerating it, by showing that we could no longer withstand the threat that we're facing, and that we were pulling back, and we're on the run. INTERVIEWER: Settlements, just one thing about them, are - there seems to be a grievance, an obstacle for piece, a problem blocking the possibility of (Inaudible). Is there any accuracy to that? 00:18:03:00>>> DORE GOLD: Settlements are not really the issue. Settlements are sitting on territory, and territory is disputed. Israel has claims in the West Bank and Gaza, for secure borders, under Resolution 242. The Palestinians have claims in the West Bank and Gaza, for their Palestinian state. If you understand that these are disputed territories, the land is the issue. How much land do all the settlements sit on in the West Bank? If you actually could take a tape measure and figure out how much land the built up areas of settlements are sitting on, low and behold you would find that the settlements are sitting on 1.36% of the entire West Bank. Therefore, the settlements are an overstated issue. They may attract a lot of CNN and BBC cameras, but they are not the fundamental issue holding up an Israeli and Palestinian agreement. They are not the issue that is blocking peace. INTERVIEWER: If there were a credible Palestinian partner that could come up with a solution for a Palestinian self rule, balanced by _____, would settlements sabotage the whole process? DORE GOLD: Not at all. Because, in fact, the settlements are many times located in areas of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, that Israeli governments, for years, have thought, are vital for Israel's defense. For example, there's a settlement called Ofla [PH], north of Jerusalem. Now, the settlement itself doesn't provide Israel with security, it's not, you know, young couples with baby carriages that are going to stop and Iraqi division from coming down into northern Jerusalem. But it happens at the settlement of Ofla, is next to Bahazur [PH], the main early warning station of the Israeli Air Force, Israel's Norad [PH]. And therefore, by retaining that settlement of Ofla, we're helping hold - we're helping Israel hold on to the Bahazur early warning station. And in many cases, the settlements, which were mapped out by Israel's Ministry of Defense, in the 1970's or the late 1960's, far defending particular Israeli security interests, that Israel would hope to retain, in any future territorial settlement between Israel and the Palestinians. INTERVIEWER: Just an elaboration on that. What is the reason why Israel can't go back to June 4th, 1967? Where is geostrategic, geographical reasons? 00:20:26:00>>> DORE GOLD: Well one has to recall, in the June 1967 Six Day War, Israel came under attack from the West Bank sector. Jerusalem, our civilians, were hit by Jordanian infantry, and by Jordanian artillery. Jordan's armored forces were massed in the West Bank, and about to take over the narrower portions of Israel, near the Mediterranean. And because of that, that United Nations Security Council, back in November of 1967, recognized that Israel entered The West Bank in a war of self defense. And, as a result, Israel was entitled, entitled to defense of - [let me start again.] And, as a result, Israel was entitled to defense of borders which would not be the same as the June 4th lines. Those lines happened to be where the Jordanian and Israeli armies stopped, in 1949. There were never permanent, political borders. INTERVIEWER: Another point, what did Israel have in common with the war on terror? How does Israel - the Israeli front resemble, and help as a - help in the larger American war on terror? DORE GOLD: The war Israel is facing, from organizations like Hamas and Islamic Jihad, is not a war over some limited piece of territory, or some kind of narrow grievance, it is an anti-civilizational war. It's an attempt to destroy Israel as a free democracy in the Middle East. Hamas, it's no surprise, is alive with Al Qaeda, who has much larger goals of not just taking the piece of the United States, or having some limited grievances in Europe, it wants to destroy American civilization. If we can demonstrate that it is possible to defeat these terrorist organizations, first and foremost militarily, economically, and finally, politically, there may be a chance, in the larger struggle against terrorism, to do the same. Because, ultimately, what we have to do is eliminate the military threat. But, at the same time, demonstrate a path towards co-existence with the Arab world, and with the Islamic world. Israel is determined to do that, and hopefully our western partners, our democratic partners in the U.S. and Europe, will do the same. INTERVIEWER: I have one point, does Jerusalem say something about Israel's claim and why it's worth the fuss and (Inaudible)? 00:23:09:00>>> DORE GOLD: You know, over the years I became very close to the former prisoner of Zion [PH], Natan Sharanski [PH], who, of course, was in solitary confinement in a Soviet prison. And he shared with me his viewpoint that, first of all, what renovated or what restored the identity of Soviet Jews, who are under communism for more than 50 years, was the identification with Jerusalem. And when he was in prison, what gave him strength, was the sentence, (Inaudible) - next year in Jerusalem. ,Jerusalem has a deep, spiritual, almost mystical relationship with the Jewish people. It's our direction of prayer. It is the city that has been the capitol of the Jewish people for three thousand years, even though we were forcibly thrown out of Jerusalem by the Roman Empire, had only come back after five hundred years. If the Jewish people were to ever give up sovereignty in Jerusalem, were to ever conceive Jerusalem, it would be a fundamental blow against the identity of the Jewish people as a whole. In a certain sense, I would say, over the last number of centuries, Jews have been divided among themselves, over whether we have a responsibility first and foremost to ourselves, a particular responsibility, or a universalistic responsibility to the entire human race, to all of mankind. Jerusalem is the one case, the one area where there is two responsibilities to converge, because in protecting the rights of the Jewish people, and the rights of Israel, to sovereignty in Jerusalem, we are fulfilling our universalistic mission to protecting Jerusalem, as a city open to all faiths. The moment we let down our guard and give up Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, we are abandoning our responsibility to all mankind, to keeping Jerusalem; a city that's open, a city of coexistence for all the great religions. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS]
Israel annexes the Old City of Jerusalem, opening all Holy places to religious pilgrims of faiths as well as tourists. The U.S. calls the annexation "hasty" and worldwide diplomatic strain over the postwar Middle East situation increases.
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United Nations: Kosygin Dims Hope For Early Peace
After four days of war, Jordan and Egypt accept the U.N. cease-fire. Israeli forces drive across the Sinai to the Suez Canal, break the Gulf of Aqaba blockade, take the Old City of Jerusalem and Bethlehem.
Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat spoke to reporters at a morning press conference. Dr. Erakat commented on Chairman Arafat's meeting with President Clinton yesterday, on the progress of Mid-East peace negotiations and the future declaration of a Palestinian state.
Jews pray at the Wailing Wall during the Jewish New Year in Jerusalem.
Israelis offer prayers of joy and thanks during the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashanah), in the holy city of Jerusalem, a few months after the Six Day War. Jewish men and women touch the Western Wall (Suq El Qatanin St, Jerusalem), also known as the Wailing Wall, and offer prayers. Huge crowd gathered to celebrate the Jewish New Year. Jewish men wearing prayer shawls (Tallit) read from the holy books and pray. Jewish women wearing head coverings over modern clothes stand in front of the Western Wall. Women offering prayers in the Western Wall. Some rubble visible from the demolition of the Moroccan Quarter for the Western Wall Plaza. Location: Jerusalem Israel. Date: October 5, 1967.
Interview with Mitchell Bard pt 3
Interview with Mitchell Bard about the history of the Israeli Palestinian situation and negotiations.,INTERVIEWER:,What conditions have to be in place before you feel there can be hope for peace? ,02:52:02>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,Before there can be serious negotiations between Israel and Palestinians, there are going to have to be reforms in Palestinian authority. I think President Bush has got it exactly right. There has to be an end to the violence, you have to have a change in leadership, you have to have Democratic elections, transparent institutions, and a way that the moderate voices can come forward and have some real power in decision making. Whether the problem is that the moderate voices that you see and hear on American TV all the time, are not the people who have any authority in the Palestinian authority, itself. So, until there is that kind of reform, which the president has called for in his June speech, it's really unlikely that Israel will have anybody to negotiate, in terms of getting peace in - [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,02:53:09>>>,The President of The United States has it exactly right in his proposals for moving the peace process forward, and calling for the reform of the Palestinian authority, a change in leadership. Until that happens, until you have transparent institutions, until you have democratic elections, the opportunity for moderate voices to be heard and to have positions of power, it's really unlikely that there will be a negotiating partner for the Israelis. To have a broader peace in the Middle East, is a much more difficult undertaking, because you are going to need a reform of Islam; a change in the views of the radical members of the fundamentalist community who believe in this motion of a Jihad, the end of the Jewish State, and the reconstitution of an Islamic Empire. Unless the most authentic versions of Islam, where this isn't viewed as the end goal are the more common place, are the ones that are supported in the Arab communities, it's going to be very difficult to have a comprehensive peace in the region. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,02:55:35>>>,Frequently you hear the charge that Israel is an expansionist power. Well it's remarkable that it's probably the only expansionist power in history that's consistently withdrawing from territory, and tried to reduce the size of its borders, which we saw with the 56' war, when Israel withdrew from territory captured from Egypt. We saw it again in 1967, after the war when Israel withdrew from the Sinai exchange for peace with Egypt. We saw it after the peace with Jordan, when Israel gave up some of the territory in Jordan. And, in fact, if you look at the territories were captured after the 67 war, roughly 92% of that territory has already been returned to Arab Partners For Peace. So that really, even if Israel were to withdraw from 100% territory, we're talking about only a small percentage, about 8% that's still in dispute. So, there really is a lot of territory involved in the negotiating process. , ,INTERVIEWER:,The Palestinians claim, hey, nine years after Oslo and still no state, and there's settlements abound. So maybe war is the only hope.,02:56:56>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,The Palestinians had a great opportunity through Oslo, to create an independent Palestinian state. They had certain obligations which they agreed to in a treat that they signed. And the problem is they failed to live up to them. That they didn't renounce terror, they didn't stop the violence, they didn't collect the illegal weapons, they didn't take a number of steps that were required, that they agreed to. They promised, themselves, in the Oslo Report, to make it possible to create an independent Palestinian state. And even half of that, they were given other opportunities in subsequent agreements, and in particular in negotiations with President Clinton, and Israeli Prime Minister Barak, to have a Palestinian state which would have been on at least 95% of the West Bank, 100% of The Gaza Strip. It would have given them a capitol in East Jerusalem. It would have lead to the dismantling of more than a hundred settlements in the West Bank. All of the things that most Israelis thought that the Palestinians were fighting for. But they rejected those proposals. So, there are other options. ,02:58:11>>>,You hear frequently, people saying, they are turning to terror because of poverty, or because they have no other option. Well, the fact is they have other options. Here's one, negotiations. Go back to the negotiating table, end the violence. Another option is, nonviolence. It worked for Martin Luther King, it worked for Gandhi. Why haven't the Palestinians chosen that option? They simply made the strategic decision that terror would be their best opportunity for advancing their agenda to - at the very minimum, creating the Palestinian state in the West Bank. But ultimately, many of them hope to create one that replaces Israel. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , , INTERVIEWER:,Let's talk about the Intifada. Was - what was the catalyst for that? Was there a catalyst? ,02:59:47>>> ,MITCHELL BARD:,There was no particular catalyst for the latest uprising in the Palestinians, in terms of a single incident. It was a strategic decision that the Palestinians made over the course of many months. And really crystallized after the negotiations failed between Yasser Arafat and Ehud Barak, and Bill Clinton, to use violence in a more extreme and prolific manner to try to move their agenda forward. The Palestinians have blamed the visit of Ariel Sharon to the Temple Mount, for the violence. But, in fact, the violence had started before this. ,And there really was no reason why a visit by an Israeli, during normal visiting hours, should have lead to an uprising which now has lasted more than two years. In fact, an independent commission led by an American, George Mitchell, found that Sharon's visit was not the cause of the uprising. It's really been a prolonged campaign, by the Palestinian authority, to try to force Israel to make concessions that they couldn't win at the bargaining table. , INTERVIEWER:,Why has this Intifada become so much more violent than the previous one in the 80's? They were, by and large - they were just throwing rocks. Now they're blowing, blowing people up. It's much become snipers and drive-by shootings, and all sorts of ways it escalated. ,03:01:32>>>, MITCHELL BARD:,The uprising, in the last two years, has been more violent than the earlier uprising in the 80's, for a number of reasons. First of all, the original uprising was pretty violent and there were suicide bombings back - as far back as that original uprising. But what's changed is the growing influence of the Islamic fundamentalists and their terror groups, which have placed a premium on martyrdom and the belief that by committing terrorist attacks, suicide bombings, you can go to paradise; a wonderful place in the hereafter. That, that wasn't as much the case in the earlier uprising. Also, the Palestinians believe that a precedent had been set when the - his ball of terrorists in Lebanon had mounted sufficient terrorist attacks on the Israeli military forces in Southern Lebanon to, in their view, force Israel to unilaterally withdraw. And that was seen as a precedent, and, by most of the Arab world, as a sign of Israeli weakness. That if you simply inflicted high enough casualties on Israel, that it would withdraw. ,03:02:40>>>,And there has been a belief, up till now, that if the Palestinian terrorist could inflict sufficient casualties on the Israeli civilian population, that the Israeli government would also unilaterally withdraw from the West Bank, and give the Palestinians everything that they wanted. They miscalculated because the West Bank isn't the same as Southern Lebanon. The Israeli citizens aren't willing to, simply, unilaterally withdraw with nothing to gain by it. And that they are willing to fight the terror wherever it is, and from whomever it comes, and despite the belief of the Palestinians that they're weak. , ,INTERVIEWER:,In some people, some of the peace - the peace mix in Israel, feel that, that's what should happen. Israelis should just pull out unilaterally. What do you think would happen? ,03:03:59>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,One option for Israel, to unilaterally withdraw, has become increasingly popular among the public. Not only with the left in Israel, but increasingly with the right. As the recognition has set in that there is no Palestinian partners to negotiate with, the unilateral withdraw is risky. Because it would involve sending a message to the Arab world that Israel may be driven back by violence, and it also would give the Palestinians a state on their side of the border, which would now be closer to the population of the industrial centers of Israel to threaten them. Israel wouldn't have its forces, in the territories, in place in order to perform counter intelligence, counter terrorism operations. ,03:04:54>>>,On the other hand, Israel isn't weak. Israel currently controls much of the West Bank, in an effort to protect the population. And if it chose to withdraw in the future, it wouldn't be doing so because it was driven out by terror, it would be doing so because it chose to do so, because it was in its own best interest. And it may be that once a fence is built along the new border, that Israel will be able to defend it, to use whatever measures are necessary to fight whatever terror might remain. But the hope would be that once Israel withdrew, to some new line, that a Palestinian state would emerge, and then it would be in their interest to keep the peace, then, rather than provoke Israel to return to the West Bank. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,03:05:56>>>,If the opportunity presented itself to, simply, place peace on their referendum, and ask Palestinians what they would like to do, if they would be prepared to live in peace next to Israel, I think, in all likelihood, you would see a majority vote to do just that; to have a Palestinian state living in peace beside Israel. But I think you would find the same on the Israeli side. In fact, that's been the case in Public Opinion Polls for years, in Israel. That there's a willingness to accept a Palestinian state that would live in peace beside Israel. The divisions come when you start getting into more of the details of what the state would look like, where it would be, what would happen to Jews living on one side of the border. But, Palestinian people, I believe, as is the case with the Israeli people, would really like to have peaceful lives. The problem on the Palestinian side has been a leadership that hasn't had the courage to make compromises and to be willing to accept a Palestinian state that would be in a part of the West Bank, and all of the Gaza Strip, living next to Israel instead of replacing Israel. , , INTERVIEWER:, Speculate, for a moment, if you will, if there was some analogous situation in a Western country, the United States, or England, or France, or Italy, or Spain - if there was the kind of civil unrest and disobedience that was going on, and the scale of what was going on in the Middle East, what would happen? ,03:07:34>>> ,MITCHELL BARD:,If the United States or another western power was faced with a kind of terrorism and unrest that Israel has been faced with over the last two years, I think you would expect a very harsh response. Much more serious, probably, than even Israel has been forced to use to protect its population. You've seen it already in the United States, since September 11th, when we were attacked just once on a single day. Albeit it was a very horrible day. The United States went to war against a country thousands of miles away. And we launched repeated attacks against terrorist targets as far away as Yamen, when we thought that we had the opportunity to kill, either people prepared to commit terrorist attacks against us, or who were in the past involved in terrorist attacks. ,So, for Israel, which is suffering, at least on a casualty basis, the equivalent of September 11th, almost every few weeks, the pressure is enormous to take very harsh measures to try to protect the civilian population. You sometimes hear people try to compare Israel's counter terrorist attacks with the Palestinian's acts of terror. And it's a really obscene kind of analogy, as though you were comparing an arsonist with a firefighter. When the arsonist, like a terrorist, sets the fire and then the firefighter comes in to put out the fire, you wouldn't say that the firefighter was morally equivalent to the arsonist. And yet, people have tried to suggest that when Israel fights against terror, it somehow is doing a similar kind of act as the terrorist themselves. It's simply not the case. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,You often have this game played, of numbers, where people say that more Palestinians have been killed, than Israelis, and therefore the Palestinian side is suffering more. Or that Israel is doing the same types of things as the Palestinians. And it's really not a question of numbers. It's a question of acts and intentions. That Israel doesn't set out to intentionally kill any civilians. In fact, it goes out of its way to try to prevent civilian casualties. There are numerous examples of how Israel has taken extreme measures, in some cases, to put its own soldiers at risk, rather than put more civilians in danger. And it's a tragedy when civilians are killed in any kind of counter terrorist attack. And Israel does everything possible to avoid it. ,On the other side, Palestinians are intentionally targeting civilians. That's the whole purpose of the terrorist, to try to kill as many civilians as possible. So it's a very difficult situation for Israel to defend itself against, because the terrorist, themselves, purposely hide among civilian populations. The civilians, themselves, are willing to shield terrorists, often. And the United States, and other countries have faced similar problems. The United States went after terrorists in Afghanistan, and inadvertently bombed a wedding, and killed dozens of civilians. It wasn't their intent, but no one is trying to compare the U.S. action, in going after the Al Qaeda, with the Al Qaeda terrorist, themselves. , INTERVIEWER:, Why is Israel, or the Israelis being held for such a double standard, when (Inaudible)? ,03:11:33>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,Israel sometimes seem to be held to a double standard. And Israelis, themselves, hold themselves to a higher standard. They do not want to kill any civilians. They believe in what they call the purity of arms, to have an army that operates in as moral a way as possible. And, unfortunately, especially in the media, there's a tendency to find fault with every Israeli action, not to make the kinds of distinctions between the act of terror and the counter terrorist. And you see, over and over again, a reference to Israel killing people when they are not setting out to kill anyone, whereas, the Palestinians, the terrorists, are deliberately targeting civilians. That's their whole purpose of their attacks. But it's very difficult for a liberal democracy, an open democracy like Israeli, to use the kinds of methods that might be more effective in a totalitarian state. ,For example, in Syria, when the president, then of Syria in 1982, had a problem with Moslem Fundamentalist Terrorists, he didn't arrest anybody, he didn't just kill the terrorists, he destroyed an entire city. He killed 20,000 people to put an end to his problems. Yasser Arafat has his own way of dealing with terrorism, or at least his opponent. And that is to arrest them, try them, and kill them. Sometimes he skips the first two steps and just strings them up on lamp posts. Israel doesn't do that. Israel seeks to arrest people and to try them. And there's a very big difference between that approach and that pursued by the Palestinians. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , , INTERVIEWER:,The notion of a suicide bomber is unfathomable and unheard of in history. You know, the kamikazes, and suicide bombers (Inaudible). Kamikazes, you know, they go after military targets and so forth. How does this kind of thing happen? ,03:13:20>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,I wish there was a good explanation for suicide bombing. I don't think there is. It's an immoral and inexcusable act. We want to try to come to some analysis, understanding of why this might happen becomes, in part, from the belief of fundamentalist Moslems. And if they commit these acts in the name of Allah, that this will bring them some reward in the hereafter. That there are some people who, simply, are doing it because they believe it will advance their political cause. And by killing as many Israelis as possible, and especially civilians, it will inflict such a high cost on Israeli public. That they will demand their - that their leaders make some political concessions. And (Inaudible) seriously miscalculated, because Israeli people had just the opposite reaction that they, they hardened by these, these atrocities, and have supported their leader's efforts to take very tough measures to prevent these kinds of terrorist attacks. , , INTERVIEWER:,It's been said that Yasser Arafat is not a partner for peace. Is Ariel Sharon a partner for peace? Is he capable of making peace in Palestine? ,03:14:37>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,You often hear people criticize Ariel Sharon, and suggest that he is an obstacle, that he's unwilling and uninterested in peace. I think the basic answer is to test it. Test it. If you believe he is the butcher, the bake, the candlestick make who has done all of these terrible things, you have to put him to the test and say, we're going to stop the violence on the Palestinian side, we're going to sit at the negotiating table, we're going to talk about ways for us to live side by side in peace. ,And if Sharon does not respond to that, if Sharon does not present a peace proposal in response, everybody in the world will agree that he's an obstacle of peace. He will be criticized by everyone. And the people who will be most critical will be the Israeli public, themselves. And they'd throw him out of office in a second. Because the Israeli public is desperately seeking peace. And they're looking for a sign, on the Palestinian side, that they are committed to peace. So that if there is a genuine effort to live in peace, to end the violence, you're going to see, I believe, Ariel Sharon, respond with a positive response as he has already in presenting peace proposals in advance of the end of violence. Simply saying that, we can't negotiate those proposals until the terror stops. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,03:16:35>>>,The United States has a key role to play. The United States has a key role to play in the Middle East, in the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, in particular. And it is the only country that is respected by both sides. Other nations like the Europeans and the UN, really have little to contribute, because they've historically been so one-sided in their support of the Palestinians, and in opposition to Israel, that it's very difficult for them to play kind of a positive role in Israel. The United States is always seen, by both sides, as an honest broker. And its main role is to support the negotiations between the two parties, so that they can directly negotiate between themselves. The United States can't come up with a peace plan that will be acceptable to all. In fact, the history is that whenever the United States proposes its own plan, it's rejected usually by both sides. So, the United States has to support the direct negotiation between the parties. It has to provide the diplomatic and financial, economic support, to allow Israel to feel that it can take risks for peace. That involves economic aide, it involves military aide, in terms of political support, so that Israelis will feel that when they sit down at the bargaining table, they can afford to make tough choices like withdrawing to parts of a territory, and not put their society at risk. , INTERVIEWER:,Why aren't the Arab governments, in their vast (Inaudible) resources to approve the, the plight of the Palestinians - ,03:19:38>>>, MITCHELL BARD:,The Arab states have long paid lip service to the Palestinian cause, but if you look, historically, at what they've actually done, it's been very little. They've confined Palestinian refugees to camps, they've often deported them from their borders, as in the case of Kuwait, after the Gulf War - deported hundred's of thousands of Palestinians, and hardly a word was said by anyone. The fact is that a Palestinian cannot become a citizen of any Arab state, except for Jordan. And even Jordan doesn't allow it anymore. There is very little sympathy for the Palestinians, beyond the politic rhetoric. There is support, however, for terrorist attacks. Saudi Arabia held a telethon to support the Palestinian terrorists, earlier in 2002. And Saddam Hussein, we know, supports the Palestinian terrorists by providing up to $25,000 for their families. So, in terms of providing financial incentives to terrorists, in terms of political statements, they've been very supportive. But in terms of doing anything to actually help their plight, they've done very little. , , INTERVIEWER:,The Palestinians say that the media is run by the Jewish ____ Establishment, and the - a lot of Jews, or some Jews say that the media is biased, pro-Palestinian. ,03:21:06>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,If there's one subject on which, probably, Palestinians and Israelis, and American Jews, and Arab Americans all agree, it's that the media is biased. Although each side thinks it's more biased against them. I think that if you look, objectively, at it, there's certainly a bias. And it would be, most likely, toward the Palestinian and Arab side, and for some good reasons. The main reason is that Israel is an open, liberal democracy. ,And if you want to read criticism of Israel, all you have to do is open any Israeli newspaper, any day of the week, and you'll read criticism galore of Israeli policies. But you won't read similar kinds of criticism of the Arab countries, because those are all totalitarian dictatorship's, that mostly control their own press. Or you won't see a Peter Jennings, or a Dan Rather, or a Tom Brokaw reporting Live from Riydah, Saudi Arabia, or Damascus, Syria, or Cairo, Egypt. Those societies aren't talking to them. So that, you're not going to see the negative side of most of the Arab states in the media. Whereas, in Israel it's very easy for a reporter to get negative information, or to give a negative report. So, to that degree, there is a built in kind of biased that makes it very difficult for Israel to get even handed coverage. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,03:23:21>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,The United States has a unique relationship with Israel, that goes back many decades, even before the State of Israel existed, to relationship between the American people and political leaders, and early Zionists. Because of the belief in the return of the Jewish people to their homeland, because of values that the two nations share, democracy, openness, freedom of speech, freedom of press, and other freedoms, a shared Judeo, Christian heritage, also a shared interest. That the United States and Israel share a view of the importance of Middle East stability, and a fight against those forces that are opposing western democracy, such as communism, during the days of the Cold War, and radical fundamentalism, today. Also, threats like Saddam Hussein, who pose a danger, not just to Israel but to the region and to the United States, by extension, because of its weapons of mass destruction. So that there is a longstanding and important alliance that cements the peoples of the United States and Israel, and helps guide the relationships between them, through good times and in bad. , , INTERVIEWER:,Please go through your myths and facts, your top ten, as it relates to this (Inaudible). [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] ,03:25:33>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,We often hear people say that the Jews suddenly showed up one day in Palestinian and stole the land from the native population. There's a misunderstanding about the long history of the Jewish people, with the land of Israel, dating back to the view of observant Jews, and promised by God to Abraham, and simply historical, political terms, the presence of the Jewish people for a ____ the land of Israeli. And in political terms, in the existence of a Jewish state, that existed for hundred's of years, before foreign conquerors drove the Jews out of the territory. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] , , INTERVIEWER:,The notion of refugee, I mean the term refugee, to my understanding, was redefined solely for the Palestinians, and for their status which doesn't apply to any other refugees before, you know, 1948 and since. Is that true? ,03:27:32>>>,MITCHELL BARD:,I don't know the answer. I know what you're talking about, but I can't answer it. [OFF CAMERA COMMENTS] One of the key issues in the negotiations is the status of Jerusalem. And it's important to look at Jerusalem from a variety of perspectives. If you think about it, this really demonstrates how the Arab/Israeli conflict is not about politics, alone, it's really geography, it's politics, it's history, it's religion. It's all of those things wrapped up into one. And it really is a microcosm of the entire Arab/Israeli conflict, because in Jerusalem, if it was just a political issue, you would simply say, most of the Jews live on one side, and most of the Arabs live in East Jerusalem, we draw a line in between, that's it, we're done, we settle it. But you can't do that. Why? , Well, because the Pope in Rome says, I want to sit in Jerusalem because of the trip to the Holy Sepulchre, and Christian holy sites. And you have the Mullahs in Iran, saying, no we want to stay in Jerusalem because of the Al AksaMosque (Inaudible). You have Jews in Chevy Chase, Maryland, say, no we want to stay in Jerusalem because of the western wall, the holiest spot in Judaism. All of those places are literally on top of each other. The Temple Mounts literally on top of them, the Western Wall, and the Church of The Holy Sepulchre around the corner. How do you divide those up? You can't really do it. There's also the history involved. Israel saw what happened when foreign powers controlled Jerusalem. From 48', to 1967, Jordan controlled Jerusalem. They desecrated the Jewish holy places, Jews weren't allowed to visit the Western Wall, or the other holy places. Even Israeli Christians weren't allowed to visit. The Jordanians desecrated the Mount Olive Cemetery, and other holy spots, and Israelis aren't going to allow that to happen again. You hear all the time, people say, well Jerusalem has to be free and accessible to people of all faiths. Well, that's only been true once in history, since Israel captured the city in 1967. Now it is free and accessible to all. ,03:29:47>>>,So, the question is, can you reach a solution in which Jerusalem is shared? Where Palestinians can have their demand for Jerusalem as a capitol, and Israel can have its demand ____ its own unified capitol. Perhaps, Ehud Barak offered one solution, that is to give Arab East Jerusalem to the Palestinian state. But most Israelis, as well as the Palestinians themselves, rejected that idea. Most Israelis thought that was going too far, and Palestinians thought it didn't go far enough. Another proposal was to give a suburb of Jerusalem, called Abu Dis, to the Palestinians and make that their capitol. They could say, our capitol is in Jerusalem. They wouldn't have to say Abu Dis. And the Israelis would keep the rest of Jerusalem for themselves. It's not perfect but it's a compromise; that the Israelis would keep what they really care about, the old city and the new city, the Palestinians would still have a capitol in Jerusalem. It's risky though, because even though Abu Dis is a suburb and it's not far from Jerusalem, it's literally a stone throw away, and would be threatening. , From the Palestinian perspective, it's not perfect either, because they prefer to see the flag of Palestinian flying over the Temple Mount in the Old City. But it's a conceivable compromise. So, Jerusalem is one issue of which all of the various aspects of the conflict all come together as one, and show how difficult it is to resolve peacefully.[OFF CAMERA COMMENTS RE: WATER] [END OF INTERVIEW
DN-LB-584 Beta SP
Israel [Latrun Highway from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv]