LIFESTYLES
RICK WALTERS INTERVIEW
BERT GRIMM'S TATTOO,
Long Beach, CA
DAVID ELLIS: How does the tattoo process begin - how do you make a tattoo.
18:18:52:17
RICK WALTERS: Well, the tattoo is made by, you start out with the picture that you draw and then you make a tracing of that picture and make a stencil of the tracing, then you apply the stencil to the skin and then you do your outline and shading and coloring.
DAVID ELLIS: Can you make a guess - what do you think the tattoo process was like a hundred years ago?
18:19:16:06
RICK WALTERS: It was similar to what it is now, except for, instead of using, uh, the electricity that we use now they used batteries. They ran, basically, the same type of machine.
DAVID ELLIS: For a sailor or whoever was getting tattooed in 1900 or 1920 - when people come in here they have the sterilized...
18:19:42:02
RICK WALTERS: YEAH, WELL, they didn't have the sterilization, right.
DAVID ELLIS: But how did tattoo artists become artists in those days? What were they, really?
18:19:40.15
RICK WALTERS: Um, they served an apprenticeship. You know, and then, eventually, uh, after they apprenticed with somebody they opened up their own shop, but, like you were saying the sterilization doesn..., you know, wasn't anywhere near as good as it is now. Of course the diseases [CHUCKLING] weren't as bad then either, you know, and consequently, uh, nowadays, they were real critical on the sterilization and the proper care of putting the tattoo on.
DAVID ELLIS: What is it that sterilization does for you?
18:20:20.20
RICK WALTERS: Well, it kills all the bacteria on all of the needles and, uh, you know, makes the cuhs, customer a lot more, you know, comfortable with the situation. But,
basically, it cuts down any chance of infection or something of that nature.
DAVID ELLIS: How do you guide people who are trying to choose the right design, but don't quite know?
18:20:43:03
RICK WALTERS: Well,
it's sort of hard, actually, uh, to guide somebody to get a tattoo, you know, is, eh, it has to be something that they really want,
you know, and so you can talk with them and find a, get an idea of what they like, you know what I mean, and then sort of aim them in the right direction and possibly send them home to find a picture at home, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to come out of the tattoo shop.
DAVID ELLIS: I've been in a lot of shops and sometimes I see people, a lot like me, looking at all the flash, back and forth, back and forth. Do you try and analyze - can you tell when people come in the door what they need or want?
18:21:23:28
RICK WALTERS: NAHH, IT'S pretty hard to tell what they actually want without talking with them, you know, and
it's pretty much a decision that they have to make their-self, you know,
you can't really tell somebody what they like, they pretty much have to figure it out, you know, and find something that they really like, you know, because it's going to be on their body forever, you know, and you only got one shot at putting it on there.
DAVID ELLIS: How do you take care of tattoos, what's the best way to maintain your tattoos?
18:21:52.00
RICK WALTERS: WELL, once you get the tattoo, then we bandage it and you leave the bandage on for, oh, eight to ten hours, and wash the residue that, the bleeding or whatever off, after you take the bandage off and then you use a thin coat of an antibiotic salve such as bacitracin or Neosporin and, after that, you just basically let it dry out and heal and, once it completely heals, if you're going to go out in the sun a lot, you probably ought to put a little sun-block on it to keep it from fading.
DAVID ELLIS: You know, I told you I shipped out on the Merchant Marine when I was a kid and a lot of the guys ex-Navy guys from the war and their tattoos were kind of blue/black and, very often, you couldn't tell what they were.
18:22:37.08
RICK WALTERS: Yeah, well, back in the forties and fifties they used a, the larger line and the tattoos were more cartoonish than they are today and, consequently, the line spread a little because you have, you know, you're working on human flesh, you're not working on a piece of paper; and, so if the line doubles in size, if it was already, say, an eighth of an inch wide, then it would get blurry as it doubled, whereas, now, we try to use a little thinner line on the smaller designs, consequently, they stay nice for a longer period of time. Eh, and, you know, it's just a spreading, aging factor of the tattoo itself.
DAVID ELLIS: So, if a 21-year-old comes and gets a tattoo, what should it look like and 40 years?
18:23:21.14
RICK WALTERS: Well, it depends on a lot of different things, you know, on, on the care they take of their skin for one thing and, also, on the ability of the person who put the tattoo on. I have tattoos on, myself, that are 20, 30 years old that look just fine. Whereas, I've seen tattoos that were 10 years old that look horrible, you know, and, uh, it's a combination of the person who has it and the guy who put it on in the first place.
DAVID ELLIS: You were showing us your machine before and needles poking out, can you tell me what we were seeing in that closeup?
18:23:59:00
RICK WALTERS: Well, the machine runs free when it's not in the skin. I mean, we have a weighted bar on top of the, the machine that is pulled down by electromagnet and, consequently, you build a certain amount of inertia and the weight of the bar pushes the needles a certain depth into the skin and that's adjusted by spring tension and the amount of power that you put onto the machine and, consequently, you can regulate how deep the needles go into the skin, just by setting the machine up properly and it slows down when it hits the skin, I, uh, I don't know if you noticed or not, well, while I was tattooing the, if I wasn't in the skin it would be going a lot faster, then, as soon as I hit the skin you could hear it go [LOWER SOUND] slow down and, consequently, that's what causes the, the inertia and the depth of the needles. The ideal situation is to go through like three to four layers of skin where you have seven, so, you want to go about half-way through the skin, because if you go all the way through, then it gets blurry.
DAVID ELLIS: How long should tattoos last?
18:25:04.26
RICK WALTERS: For rest of your life - forever and forever. You know, eh, as long as you take care of them. Now, they will get blurry over a large period, long period of time if you don't take care of your skin, you know, you, if you look through a picture that's on a old, dirty, nasty piece of glass it's going to look horrible, whereas, if you keep the glass nice and clean and shiny, the picture looks good and it's the same thing, the nicer your skin is, the better the tattoo looks.
DAVID ELLIS: REST OF YOUR LIFE - I WAS JUST ADJUSTING.... Okay. What made you become a tattoo artist?
18:25:52:05
RICK WALTERS: UMMM. Well, I don't know, I started, uh, messing around with tattooing when I was real, real young and doing it by hand in the garage, you know, and whatever and, eventually, uh, I got good enough at, at doing it by hand that a guy took me off to the side and said, here, you've got to do it like this, here, and set me up with some machines and I practiced a little bit and, when I was about, oh, I'd say, 19, I started tattooing in a shop professionally and I'm 52 years old now, so I've been at it a couple of years.
DAVID ELLIS: I know, as we all get older, we learn, hopefully, something about human nature, but you see people...what have you learned about human nature by tattooing people?
18:26:43:22
RICK WALTERS: UM. It's hard to say, people do some pretty stupid things occasionally, you know, eh, you know, some people are a little smarter than others, but, on the, in general, I guess, most people are fairly good people, but, occasionally, you get people that aren't, you know, but most of the time they're generally decent people, but sometimes they make mistakes, you know, that's just normal, you know.
DAVID ELLIS: Tell me a little bit about the kind of people who've come in over the years, you know, who you've worked on.
18:27:16:09
RICK WALTERS: Well, you get a vy, variation of clients, nowadays especially, but, say, back in the sixties and fifty, or sixties and seventies, you did mostly bikers and waitresses and sailors and marines and people like that, whereas, in the last 10 to 15 years you get into a little more blue collar
people, that's, you get occasionally doctors and lawyers and nurses and, you know, people who work in the grocery store,
it's pretty much everybody's getting tattooed these days, in comparison to the old days, you know. So, the clientele, actually is a little nicer than it it used to be, you know. And it's sort of nice, working with nicer people.
DAVID ELLIS: What do people talk about when they're sitting in your chair.
18:28:02:07
RICK WALTERS: Well, it's sort of like a barber shop, you know, just depends on what's on their mind, eh, girlfriend's mad at or, you know, their mom's going to get upset because they got a new tattoo or, whatever, you know, but, sometimes they talk about their cars, you know, it just depends on the person, and it's pretty much like I say, in a barber shop, you know, okay, everybody talks a little different thing, you sort of learn to just listen a little bit and, you know, just let [CHUCKLING] it go by.
DAVID ELLIS: What were your favorite designs in the old days and how have they changed in the last 30 years.
18:28:41:17
RICK WALTERS: Oh, the designs nowadays are a lot more intricate than they were, say, back in the sixties and fifties and a lot of the older tattoo artists, you know, haven't
came up with the times and they're still back in the fifties and sixties trying to make a living; and the ones that have any brains have progressed, you know, and, and moved on with the, you know, the trends, uh, cuh, tattoos nowadays are a lot more colorful, uh, more detail -- and favorite tattoos, oh, I don't know, I, I sort of l-lean towards the traditional-style tattoos and, uh, the big oriental pieces, but, then occasionally I'll do something real fine-line that I really like, it's hard to say, you know, it's, it's sort of a, oh, mixture of this and that and whatever and, and if you did the same thing over and over it'd get real boring, you know, so it's sort of nice being able to do a little of everything, but, like I say, some of the old guys they just never got the message, [CHUCKLING] you know, and they're back in the fifties.
CHANGE TAPE
18:29:49
DAVID ELLIS: You know, I don't think I've seen anybody with this kind of blue line - I like that.
RICK WALTERS: That's a shaded black, actually, it fades out into blue...when you shade the black out it goes from like black to gray.
DAVID ELLIS: Does black become blue?
RICK WALTERS: Um, actually, over the years it sort of turns a greenish color, you know, sort of a dark green.
DAVID ELLIS: The old-timers I shipped with it was like you couldn't quite tell what color the old tattoos were.
19:00:37.28
RICK WALTERS: Yeah, they get that grainy look, sort of a, it's a real dark, almost green. The, some of my stuff's got a little green here and there, but...
ROLLING
DAVID ELLIS: I want to talk about technique. You were talking about how your work, after so many years, you're more efficient - what is it that a tattoo artist needs in terms of both art and technique to make the process work?
19:01:15:18
RICK WALTERS: Well, right often you'll find somebody who's a really, really good artist and they don't take the time to learn about the equipment and, consequently, they put on a beautiful tattoo, but six months later it just goes away, the lines are broken and the colors' faded and blotchy and, eventually, they will figure out how to use the equipment and get the ink under the skin, but, if somebody apprentices and learns how to put the ink under the skin first and then the
artistic aspect of it is going to fall in, uh, you've saved probably, maybe 80 to 90% of the stuff you do, you trace anyway, even stuff I draw, I draw it on paper and then I trace it and put a stencil and put it on the skin, so it really isn't relevant who drew it, you know what I mean, it, it's more relevant how well it's put on the skin and how [SIGHS]
smooth the lines are and how smooth the shading and coloring is. You know, that's really the most important part because that's what's going to make it last. Now, if you tattoo for a number years, sooner or later you're going to learn to draw, I mean, you can only trace a rose so many times, you know, eventually, you're going to learn how to draw a rose, I mean, if you've got any kind of common sense at all.
DAVID ELLIS: What's your reaction when you see people that you did work on a year or five or ten years ago, do they ever come and revisit?
19:02:42.
RICK WALTERS: YEAH, I see people quite often, since, as I've grew up in this area, so, quite a few of the people that I've tattooed 15, 20 years ago still end up coming down here and it's, you know, it's sort of interesting looking at the work, you know, and how it's progressed, you know, over the years and how they've taken care of it and whatever, occasionally, I'll pull somebody off to the side and tell them, let me touch
that up for you, man, you know, because they, maybe they were a roofer, they were outside all the time and the color faded out of it, you know, it's hard to say what happened to them.
DAVID ELLIS: I'm curious, some people seem to enjoy working with different artists, what is it that makes some
people do that and others go to one artist and get their tattoos?
19:03:28.
RICK WALTERS: Uh, it's sort of a, some people like to move around and get a little of this and a little of that and the other side of it is, is if you find somebody who's doing quality work then it's a good idea to stay with them because there are people out there who aren't, so, you, you found somebody that's doing good work, you know, might as well hang around for a while and some people research it and they actually find other artists that are doing, guh, real good work and they get a piece from this guy and a piece from that guy, you know, and, and, but they pay more attention on, on the quality of the work, whereas, you know, just, it's not really skipping from one shop to another, they actually, you know, figure out who's doing the good work and they go get a good piece from this guy or they go up to 'Frisco and get Ed Hardy to put a piece on them and then they'll go somewhere's else and have somebody else put a piece on them.
DAVID ELLIS: Can I ask you a little bit about Bert Grimm's, this is an amazing place, how do you tell us briefly, what makes this a special place to be for you?
19:04:30.
RICK WALTERS: Well,
it's the oldest shop in the United States so that sort of makes it real special and Bert, he's sort of a, uh, he started out, seh, as a vagavant[sic?]-type tattoo artist, he worked with, uh, Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West Show, back at the turn of the century.
And he had a shop in St. Louis for a number of years and then, like, in the, I guess, the late forties, he came here and bought the shop from another person, who had, it had been a tattoo shop ever since 1927 and then he bought the shop in the forties and, when he retired in the sixties, his nephew Bob Shaw took it over, and now his wife Wanda is the one that owns, but, uh, Bert was sort of a nice guy, done a lot of different things, you know what I mean, you had to sort of take what he said with a grain of salt [CHUCKLING] occasionally, some of them old guys, you know, they talk crazy.
DAVID ELLIS: We've been in a lot of tattoo shops and this is the only one, I know, that has pictures of people tattooed here from the twenties, the forties, the fifties...YEAH. Does it make you feel special to hang out and work here?
19:05:39.
RICK WALTERS: Yeah, I sort of like it, I've been here almost 21 years now, if I didn't like it, I guess, I still wouldn't
be here. But, yeah, it's sort of neat, it's like the place is almost like a museum, you know, and I think part of it is the fact that Bert was a photographer, also, and, consequently he photographed quite a few of his pieces way back, you know, and he, you know, did quality photographs, you know, and it's all black and white because they didn't have color film back then, but the photographs, the quality of them were real good and that's why, mainly because he was a photographer.
He had like, when he first started here he had a photo studio on one side and an arcade-type thing and then the tattoos on the other side and then, eventually, it just progressed into being completely tattooing.
DAVID ELLIS: Can you think, can you tell me what the strangest tattoos are that you've been requested to do?
19:06:31
RICK WALTERS: Oh, man, they get some weird ones occasionally, man, you know, it's just, uh, strangest is pretty hard to say, you know, what's strange to me might not be strange to the next guy, you know, but, oh,
people'll do weird things. I mean, and it's, you know, one guy with a bungee jumper coming out of his butt, I mean, that's pretty strange, you know. Another guy with a frog doing the same thing, you know, with this frog leg sticking out, so, I mean, that's, that's pretty weird stuff, you know,
but, uh, yeah, most of the people don't get strange stuff and, occasionally, you get some weirdo in here they'll want something really strange.
DAVID ELLIS: Can you talk us about pain in tattooing. We were watching you work on your apprentice today, tell us how pain fits into the whole tattoo process.
19:07:24.
RICK WALTERS: Well, pain is definitely a factor, I mean, uh, if you get over an area that's fairly meaty and tougher skin like, say, on your ar, outside of your arm, that's very minimal, you know, that's just like a bad irritation.
Whereas, if you get on your rib cage or the middle of your chest, like where I was doing on Thomas today, it's fairly painful because there's nothing there but nerves and bone and, consequently, you're pinching the nerves, you know, whereas, if you get on a tougher meaty area, you don't, you know, the skin is tougher and it doesn't have anything to pinch against because the skin's softer, so, it's, you know, it just depends on what part of the body it is,
(TATTOO PAIN)
I would say the center of the chest or the, mid, the rib-cage is probably the worst place to get tattooed, as far as pain goes, maybe the lower back isn't very well either, where the spine, you
know, right in the middle, but you get into most of the other areas and it's fairly minimal in comparison, but they do hurt, you [CHUCKLING] hurt, you know, everywhere.
DAVID ELLIS: Over the last two days, we saw people with tattoos in some amazing places and, you know, we didn't have time to ask them, but how can people with elaborate tattoos, complicated ones, how do people put up with them? What do you tell them, what do you advise them?
19:08:44.
RICK WALTERS: Uh, well,
most of the people that get a fairly elaborate tattoo in a real painful area, they don't do it all at once, see, they can only put up with it for a short period of time and then they wait and, when it heals, they go back and do a little more,
you know, because, I mean, you can only put with so much, you know. Uh, there are occasionally a few people that can block it out of their mind and, they'll go ahead and do the whole thing all at once, but, I mean, you get in a tender area sometimes you've got to stop, you know.
Sometimes, if you don't feel good, you know, you, you have to stop because, uh, your skin is a lot more sensitive when you're a little sick, so, you, seh, sort of thing you've got to be in the mood for, you know, as, if you're not in the mood for it, you know, it hurts more.
DAVID ELLIS: Have you ever had people stop and say, "please, I don't want to go on"?
19:09:38.
RICK WALTERS: Yeah, I've had a couple of people stop in, in the middle of the tattoo, but, um, I can only think of
one guy that didn't come back, you know, usually they come back later on and have it finished off. I mean, you don't want to walk around with half a bird, you know.
DAVID ELLIS: Over the years, you've met so many different people, what do you think it is that motivates people to get a tattoo?
19:10:02.
RICK WALTERS: I'm not, eh, real sure, to be honest with you. It's, you know, it's sort of a, everybody has their own reason, you know, and, eh, I definitely don't think it's the pain, you know, because most people would rather it didn't sting, you know, some people like the art work, uh, some of the guys that they wanted to make everybody think they're real macho, you know, what I mean, so they do these macho looking tattoos, uh, other people do it because they have certain memories that they want to keep, you know, it's, uh, parents' names or kid's names, or something like that, but I mean, everybody has a little different motivation, you know, to, to what, why they're getting what they get and you get the
people who are heavily tattooed, usually, they're more into the art aspect of it, you know, they, they like the art work.
DAVID ELLIS: Do you ever get customers who ask for certain designs that you think, immediately, you really should be going in a different direction - what do you say to people diplomatically?
19:11:06
RICK WALTERS: Well, it's hard to do, you know, eh, if that's what they actually want and it's something that's just totally out in left field somewheres, and I usually just tell them, well, you'll have to go somewheres else, you know, I don't want to mark somebody's body up with something that, that I don't feel is ethical or, you know, decent looking.
You know, like people will bring in pictures that look like their third year, third grade kid drew it, you know what I mean, well I want it just like that, and I go, "You ain't going to get it here, you know, uh, if you let me redraw that design for you, then no problem, I'll put it on you, but I can't put it on there like that."
You know, it just looks horrible, that, that's my reputation walking out the door, you know, and if I do horrible work on people, then it makes me look bad.
DAVID ELLIS: At what point in your learning to tattoo did you realize that you actually had special skill and you wanted to protect that skill?
19:12:02.
RICK WALTERS: Well, that's a pretty hard question, at what point you think you have a special skill, well, I don't know, uh...
I've been doing it for, what, 33 years now and I still learn stuff, you know, it's sort of something that you progress, you know, as over the years, you know, you just, it's a weird situation, I, eh, you can figure out different ways to do things and possibly it heals a little better or it goes in a little faster and, so, I pretty much strive to find better ways to do stuff and, and learn about things, I, I'm sort of a person that likes learning, you know what I mean, so, I, hopefully, won't ever quit learning, you know, but, a point where you think you're skilled enough to where you need to protect it, uh, I don't know if that's really applicable.
Uh, you get a lot of people that become paranoid in the business and they're afraid somebody's going to steal their designs and they're going to steal their customers or this or that, whatever, and, personally, I would prefer to work on the aspect that I have my customers and the reason they're
coming to me is because they like the work I do and I don't have to worry about the guy down the street stealing them
from me because I'm, you know, uh, comfortable with my own work, you know, I, I feel that I do a good enough job that they will come back.
DAVID ELLIS: Do you remember that you did a tattoo on somebody and you said, "Hey, that really turned out beautifully," to yourself?
19:13:43.
RICK WALTERS: Ummm, yeah, it was probably back in the sixties, I would imagine, but, more often than, than that I, I think you usually have a tendency to be your worst critic, you know, uh, other people will look at something and say, ah, my God, that's beautiful and I look at it and I remember, ah, man, there's a crooked line over there, which nobody else even notices because I shaded over it and covered it up so you didn't see it anyway, but you have a tendency to pick apart your own work worse than [CHUCKLING] somebody else would, you know, and I feel that's another reason why you continue to learn, you know, which I prefer to do is, the, if I can't find something wrong with the tattoo, than how can I learn to get better, you know, and so I, I feel that no matter how good it looks, you should be able to find something that you could have done a little better, you know, and, and then next time you try to do it a little different the next time, you
know, and I just, I'm, maybe it's because I'm Virgo, I'm never satisfied, you know. [CHUCKLES]
DAVID ELLIS: You speak like every other artist that I've spoken to and most people have this stereotype, at least in the old days, but some now, that tattooing is some special little world, but almost everybody we've met is really proud of the art they do.
19:15:07
RICK WALTERS: Oh yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it's a lot more artistic than it used to be and, and most of the artists today, actually, draw their own designs, but we still copy, too, I mean, don't get me wrong, you know, if that's what the person wants and it's a decent picture, I mean, what the heck, not everybody's going to like what I draw and you have to use, eh, you know, get rid of the ego, you know, you have to figure out, okay, this is on this person, they have to get what they want, you know.
But, uh, yeah, it's, you get a lot more artistic license than you used to, you know, it'd be, people give you a little more room. You know, but you still, like I say, you have to pay attention to what they're saying because you want it to be what they like, you know, and that makes it a little different than somebody who's painting an oil painting, you know,
whereas, you can paint a picture and hang it up and a thousand people can look at it and one guy buys it, whereas, with a tattoo, it's got to be the right way the first time and it's got to be what that guy likes, not what you like. You know, so you have to pay attention to what they're saying, you know, if you want to stay in business - you don't have quite the openness that you would in another art field.
19:16:05
DAVID ELLIS: Finally, I just want to ask you about... can you tell us a little bit about your special machines. You know, Gil Monte waxes poetic about your tattoo machines. What makes a tattoo machine special?
19:16:38.
RICK WALTERS Well, there's so many machines out there and there's a lot of different variants, you know, the... we try to manufacture a machine that works the way we want it to work, whereas, most manufacturers manufacture machines to make a profit, you know, and, and they cut back on this and they, and they machine a part a certain way because it's cheaper and they do this and that and whatever to, to, cut costs and 90% of the manufacturers don't even tattoo, so they don't have a clue what they're doing, you know, and the machines that we make now, uh, Col. Todd
and, uh, a guy named Doug Martin got together and designed the frame and we changed them over the years a little bit at a time and, and they're basically the same frame as what we started out with, but it's a three-piece steel frame that's a lot more versatile than most of the other frames because of the fact that it is steel and you can bend it or you can slot it and move it and make it do different things, you know, some, sometimes when you're putting one color, well, like a color piece in, you want the machine to hit the skin a certain way, whereas, when you're, say, working with a light gray, you want it to hit a lot softer so there's different ways you can adjust the machine or change the springs to make it hit a little different for the gray, than it would for say the color or the black shading. And, so, the machines we build are a lot more versatile than most of the other machines because they are very adaptable.
DAVID ELLIS: What were machines like in the years after Edison came up with that early kind of engraving thing that became a tattoo?
19:18:24
RICK WALTERS They were real heavy and clumsy and they weren't real adjustable, you know, as, whereas the machines we build now are a lot lighter and they're a little easier to handle because they're not as tall and top heavy and
clumsy and they're a lot more adjustable and the technology, the tuning of the machines has changed, you know, the... You continue to learn, you know, and, so, consequently, over the years, just like any other profession, the things get better and better, you know, because you figure out different ways it works a little better, you know, and you take that knowledge and share it with somebody else and then they get some of their knowledge and share it with you and everything gets a little bit better, you know, and, say, back in the forties and thirties and whatever, people had a tendency not to do that, you know, whereas the people of today are a little more open because they're not really threatened by the guy down the street, you know, as much anyway, I don't think. At least I'm not, I, I try to be friends with everybody.
DAVID ELLIS: You have this very fancy tattoo machine, it's a precision instrument, how were people getting tattooed sixty years ago, you know, in the forties, when they were going out to war and they were here on the Pike, what would this place have been like then?
19:19:49.02
RICK WALTERS Oh,
this place was a madhouse back then, I mean, it was crazy, they had, like 10 people working here, you know, and, and they just backed up out the front door, you know, the guys, if you didn't get here like by five or six in the evening you didn't get tattooed, you had a line that long down the street.
But, yeah, it was just crazy and they made a lot of money down here on the Pike, you know. But, in the seventies, they moved the Navy and that was the [LAUGHING] end of that era.
DAVID ELLIS: What was it about all those Navy guys that they...
19:20:20
RICK WALTERS WELL, SAILORS have a tendency to want to get tattooed anyway, you know, they get their ships and their sweetheart's names and, I don't know what it is about war, but, for some reason people get real patriotic and real religious around [LAUGHING] wartime. So, then they're getting religious tattooed and American flags and battleships and, you know, I guess they're putting their life on the line, they figure they need something to, you know, resemble that or whatever and, consequently, most of the sailors got tattooed and, heck, during Viet Nam, they had like 300,000 sailors stationed half a mile from here, that's a lot of people, you know. And, so, consequently they did a lot of business here, they had like seven or eight tattoo shops within a block of this place.
DAVID ELLIS: Finally, let me ask you - what's the most important thing that you'd like people to understand about the tattooing art today?
19:21:13.
RICK WALTERS UMMM. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE THEM TO UNDERSTAND?
DAVID ELLIS: That, you know, that...
19:21:19.
RICK WALTERS Well, that it's more of an artistic thing and it isn't...
DAVID ELLIS: Begin like, "Tattooing...
19:21:23.
RICK WALTERS YEAH. It's a lot cleaner and more sterile and...
DAVID ELLIS: Would you begin with the word tattooing...
19:21:31.
RICK WALTERS OH. TATTOOING, is a lot cleaner and it's a lot more sterile, everybody sterilizes their equipments, uh, everybody wears rubber gloves, you know, they use
single serving-type ink cups so they throw them away after each tattoo and, you know, everybody's a little more, uh, into the sterilization type thing because of the fact that they could cause some type of an infection or transfer a disease from one person to another and to be ethnical[SIC] you should do that, and most of the tattoo shops you go into, they actually do practice proper sterilization and you'll find people tattooing out of their house, they mess people up sometimes because they don't have the equipment it takes to do that...Just a decent autoclave, you're probably looking at, a cheap one's twenty-five hundred dollars, so the average guy on the street don't have that kind of thing, whereas the tattoo shop it's, it's worthwhile to buy that, you know, and you have four or five guys using it, so it, you know, it's cost effective, also.
DAVID ELLIS: Gil was talking to us about this problem as he sees it that there are all these sort of amateur people who have decided to set up shop in their garage.
19:22:38.
RICK WALTERS It's a very bad situation, is the amateur guys in their garages they, they don't have decent equipment, they don't have decent inks, they don't have a clue what they're doing, so, and they're not using sterile equipment and then consequently transferring mega-different types of
diseases, you know, ranging from just plain infections up to, you know, hepatitis and staph infection and all different types of viral warts, whatever, because they don't clean their machines properly.
And, ya, Most of your tattoo shops they actually, uh, use brand-new needles that are sterilized and there's a reason for that, they ac, the new needle puts in the ink better than the worn needle. You can sterilize a used needle and, uh, you're not going to transfer any diseases or whatever, but once they get worn a little bit they don't put the ink in as well, so, consequently you're better off using a brand new needle every time because you get a cleaner line and smoother shading and more solid color.
So, it's, you know, it's more practical as far as the actual tatoo itself goes. And the people, they feel a little more comfortable with that even though, you know, just sterilizing it would be more than sufficient, because you sterilize properly in an autoclave, there's nothing alive on that stuff and it kills all the bacteria.
DAVID ELLIS: I don't want to ask you confidential information, but, for a fancy, custom-made machine like yours and to buy new needles - what kind of money does it
take for professional artists like you or anybody else to have this wonderful stuff.
(TATTOO EQUIPMENT)
19:24:15.
RICK WALTERS Well, the equipment varies anywhere from a hundred and fifty dollars a machine up to three or four hundred dollars a machine, depending on who's making it and selling it. Some of the cheaper stuff that you buy from the manufacturers, say, you can get them for a hundred and fifty, two hundred bucks.
You get a little better equipment starting, you know, around two and a quarter, two and a half, three hundred, just depends and if you get some guy that thinks he's famous, he sells the same stuff for, you know, three or four hundred dollars and it isn't any different.
But, uh, the needles is, most of the people make their own, uh, at least I do, I mean, uh, I couldn't even conceive of using needles somebody else had made because I have a certain way that I want to group the needles and, you know, different, seh, in different situations,
(ABOUT TATTOO NEEDLES)
you have flat shaders, magnum shaders, round shaders, half round shaders, flat, half, or oval, you have single needle, three needle, five needle, seven-needle outlines, I
mean, so there's so many different ways that you can group the needles to make them do what you want them to do
and, consequently, I wouldn't trust somebody else to make the needles the way I want them and, so, consequently I make them myself, you buy bulk needles, they run about, oh, anywhere from 50 to 100 bucks for a thousand needles and then you configure them yourself on the needle bar and, you know, it's, it's just more practical to make them yourself and it's cheaper.
DAVID ELLIS: Thank you very much. Patient guy. I was bombarding you with questions.
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BERT GRIMM'S TATTOO
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