TAPE: EF02/0240 IN_TIME: 14:15:52 DURATION: 4:38 SOURCES: APTN RESTRICTIONS: DATELINE: Los Angeles, California USA 21 March 2002 SHOTLIST 1. Oscar statue carried to place 2. WS venue front 3. MS crane at venue front 4. MS H Stern diamond collection 5. CU necklace 6. CU necklace 7. H Stern 'Red Carpet Collection' necklace (500-thousand US dollars) 8. SOT: (English) Joan Parker, Director Diamond Information Center, on the Red Carpet Diamond Collection "For all the pieces in there - each one that is going to be worn by someone on the red carpet, ten thousand dollars will be donated by the jeweller to AMFAR and H Stern has a piece that has the largest diamond of all of them in the collection - it's a 23-carat radiant cut diamond, the piece is worth around 500-thousand dollars and if someone has that on on Sunday night - 10-thousand dollars will go to AMFAR." 9. Various: Stuart Weitzman and his million dollar shoes 10. SOT: (English) Stuart Weitzman 'This shoe is a bargain! Now I know - I can see you raised your eyebrows to me - but you know that you can take the diamonds off the shoe and you make a double-banded fabulous bracelet. The top part makes a necklace, these little drops here - depending upon how hip you are can either be a navel ring or earrings - and then you can still wear the platinum shoe!" 11. Push into gems at Mary Magdalena Gem Cosmetics 12 Pull from pots of cosmetics 13 cu costmetic pot 14 cu logo 15. SOT: (English) Mary Magdalena "Well, what I have here is the most precious cosmetic line in the world because it's made of precious gemstone and it's very precious for the skin so there's amethysts, diamonds, rubies, jade, all of those gemstones are in the colour powders and the powders you can use for your lips, your eyes, your nails and your cheeks and it's very good for the skin. 16. Wide shot Timmy Woods handbags (carved out of wood) 17. CU USA flag handbag 18. Push to panda handbag 19. SOT: (English) Timmy Woods, Designer "Well, I think that accessories are really important and the emphasis is usually put on the clothing it's not put on the accessories and this is the year of the accessory. So therefore, let's get ourselves out there - let's show that we make wonderful things and let's get the women wearing them." 20. WS woman being made up at MAC salon 21 CU make up artist brushing face 22 CU eye 23. Pan off counter to woman being made up 24. Pan off sign Vidal Sassoon to woman having hair styled 25. CU woman having hair styled 26.WS woman making Oscar Cocktail 27. Cocktail being poured 28. C/a bottles 29 Woman picking up drink 30 Set-up shot, Donald Wressell in Four Seasons pastry kitchen 31. CU Wressell 32. Cu Oscar treat 33 Wressell dressing Oscar treat 34 pan to CU dressing treat 35. SOT: (English) Donald Wressell "What's good about the Four Seasons here in LA is I'm able to do all kinds of things that just really tap into my inspiration and skills and I can do many, many, many things for our guests - our guests are quite special and quite demanding - so I'm able to be pushed a little bit by them to be able to create new things." 36. VS annual chocolate sculpture homage to best picture oscar nominees HOLLYWOOD GRIPPED BY SPENDING FRENZY FOR OSCARS The countdown is on and Tinseltown is spending millions of dollars sprucing itself up in every way imaginable. With a global TV audience of around one billion it pays to dress to impress if you intend to grace the Academy Award's legendary red carpet. Across town from the Oscars venue, in the shopping nirvana of Beverly Hills, designers of every ilk are renting out suites in the some of the swankiest hotels to hawk their wares. You won't find the man on the street here, though - as these items are the necklaces, shoes, handbags, dresses and make-up that will be shimmer and shine on the red carpet on Oscar day. This week is hectic for The Diamond Information Centre. They have been co-ordinating with designers around the world for the creation of a 'Red Carpet Collection.' Among the designers who are hoping to have their goods seen are H Stern - who have created, necklaces that start at several thousand and quickly zoom into the millions - including one with a 23-carat diamond center piece, valued at 500 thousand dollars. But it isn't all about glamour. If a celebrity wears it on the big day - H Stern will make a 10-thousand dollar donation to amFAR - the American Foundation for AIDS research. Down the hall designer Stuart Weitzman is showing off his million dollar shoes. Weitzman dreamt up the idea after last year's Oscar ceremony and has made them a reality this year. They are made of platinum and diamond - but aren't just for strutting around on the red carpet. The diamond decoration can be taken off and worn as jewellery as well. Most celebrities borrow the glamorous jewels for the big day. But all the designers agree - if you'd like to buy your favourite piece afterwards, that's no problem. It is unlikely any star will arrive for the Academy Awards without their most glamorous face on and designer Maria Magdalena is hoping celebs will try out her new line of couture gem cosmetics. Magdalena, who is based in Holland, was a student of Chinese medicine when she discovered that Chinese Empresses used to crush pearls and diamonds into their make-up. She went on to develop a full line of cosmetics which she says harmonises the ancient power of the earth with high tech skin care. Among the gems she uses for her lip, eye and skin lotions and potions are rubies, diamonds, amethyst, jade and aquamarine. No outfit would be complete without a handbag and designer Timmy Woods is hoping to fill that gap with her wooden and hand-painted hand bags, starting at 200 dollars. Downstairs Mac make-up artists are busy at work dolling up everyone from reporters to celebrities. They then only need to cross the room to get a new coif from Vidal Sassoon's elite team of hair stylists. The average cost of a Oscar hairdo is a hair-raising 7 thousand dollars. Once you're all dolled up - it's back upstairs for a cocktail at Bacardi's O room - in case you're wondering - that's O for Orange. They've had a special cocktail designed for the big week, and hope it will make a big enough splash to tempt punters all year round. A couple of blocks away The Beverly Hills Four Seasons has their pastry chef Donald Wressell working overtime in order to give each guest an Oscar-themed chocolate treat. And to top off the whole experience, guests can get an eyeful on Wressell's annual chocolate homage to the five nominees for best picture.

TAPE: EF02/0240 IN_TIME: 07:04:30 DURATION: 10:03 SOURCES: APTN RESTRICTIONS: DATELINE: Los Angeles, California USA 21 March 2002 SHOTLIST 1. Various: Oscar statues being prepared 2. H Stern 'Red Carpet Collection' necklace (500-thousand US dollars) 3. Various: H Stern diamond collection 4. SOT: (English) Joan Parker, Director Diamond Information Center "Well, the Diamond Information Center put together a collection that's called the Red Carpet Diamond Collection and for all the pieces in there - each one that is going to be worn by someone on the red carpet, ten thousand dollars will be donated by the jeweler to amFAR and H Stern has a piece that has the lar4gest diamond of all of them in the collecting - it's a 23-carat radiant cut diamond, the piece is worth around 500-thousand dollars and if someone has that on on Sunday night - 10-thousand dollars will go to amFAR." 5. Cutaway 23 carat diamond 6. SOT: (English) Joan Parker, Director Diamond Information Center "I think it's partly because diamonds are synonymous with glamour. People think about dressing up and the ultimate evening, with the ultimate necklace and it's diamonds and it's amazing - over the past five years that diamonds have been on every actress that has won - if you think about it. On the stage, she has had on diamonds!" 7. Various: Stuart Weitzman and his million dollar shoes 8. SOT: (English) Stuart Weitzman 'This shoe is a bargain! Now I know - I can see you raised your eyebrows to me - but you know that you can take the diamonds off the shoe and you make a double-banded fabulous bracelet. The top part makes a necklace, these little drops here - depending upon how hip you are can either be a navel ring or earrings - and then you can still wear the platinum shoe!" 9. Various: Christian Tse jewelry 10. SOT: (English) Christian Tse "I've created some of the platinum with blue topaz here with a tear drop and they're faceted both ways. This is a very glamorous look to it - very beautiful. Hopefully there's a dress there - a blue dress that would pick up the stone colour and the platinum and it just shines right on the red carpet there." 11. Various: woman trying on Christian Tse ankle bracelet/earrings 12. Various: Mary Magdalena Gem Cosmetics 13. SOT: (English) Mary Magdalena "Well, what I have here is the most precious cosmetic line in the world because it's made of precious gemstone and it's very precious for the skin so there's amethysts, diamonds, rubies, jade, all of those gemstones are in the colour powders and the powders you can use for your lips, your eyes, your nails and your cheeks and it's very good for the skin. 14. Wide shot Timmy Woods handbags (carved out of wood) 15. SOT: (English) Timmy Woods, Designer "Well, I think that accessories are really important and the emphasis is usually put on the clothing it's not put on the accessories and this is the year of the accessory. So therefore, let's get ourselves out there - let's show that we make wonderful things and let's get the women wearing them." 16. Wide shot woman being made up at Mac Salon 17. Various: make-up at Mac Salon 18. Vidal Sassoon stylists styling 19. Various: woman making Oscar cocktail 20. Women sitting having drinks 21. Woman lounging with self-designed butterfly body art (Leia Angelica) 22. Set-up shots Donald Wressell in Four Seasons pastry kitchen 23. Wressell putting together an Oscar treat 24. SOT: (English) Donald Wressell "What's good about the Four Seasons here in LA is I'm able to do all kinds of things that just really tap into my inspiration and skills and I can do many, many, many things for our guests - our guests are quite special and quite demanding - so I'm able to be pushed a little bit by them to be able to create new things." 25. Various: Chocolate sculpture HOLLYWOOD GRIPPED BY SPENDING FRENZY FOR OSCARS The countdown is on and Tinseltown is spending millions of dollars sprucing itself up in every way imaginable. Across town from the Oscars venue, in the shopping nivana of Beverly Hills, designers of every ilk are renting out suites in the some of the swankiest hotels to hawk their wares. You won't find the man on the street here, though - as these items are the necklaces, shoes, handbags, dresses and make-up that will be shimmer and shine on the red carpet on Oscar day. This week is hectic for The Diamond Information Centre. They have been co-ordinating with designers around the world for a the creation of a 'Red Carpet Collection.' Among the designers who are hoping to have their goods seen are H Stern - who have created, among other things - a necklace for the red carpet collection. Necklaces start at several thousand and quickly zoom into the millions - with a 23-carat diamond as its center piece is part of the Red Carpet collection. But it isn't all about glamour. If a celebrity wears it on the big day - H Stern will make a 10-thousand dollar donation to amFAR - the American Foundation for AIDS research. Down the hall designer Stuart Weitzman is showing off his million dollar shoes. Weitzman dreamt up the idea after last year's Oscar ceremony and has made them a reality this year. They are made of platinum and diamond - but aren't just for strutting around on the red carpet. If diamond shoes aren't your thing - go next door to local designer Christian Tse's room. There you will find modern jewelry - heavy on the platinum, yellow gold and - of course - heavy on the diamonds. Most celebrities borrow the glamorous jewels for the big day. But all the designers agree - if you'd like to buy it afterwards - that's not a problem either. It is unlikely any star will arrive for the Academy Awards without make-up on and designer Maria Magdalena is hoping celebs will try out her new line of couture gem cosmetics. Magdalena, who is based in Holland, was a student of Chinese medicine when she discovered that Chinese Empresses used to crush pearls and diamonds in to their face make-up. She went on to develop a full line of cosmetics which she says harmonizes the ancient power of the earth with high tech skin care. Among the gems she uses for her lip, eye and skin lotions and potions are rubies, diamonds, amethyst, jade and aquamarine. No outfit would be complete without a handbag and designer Timmy Woods is hoping to fill that gap with her wooden and hand-painted hand bags that can start at $200. Downstairs Mac make-up artists are busy at work dolling up everyone from reporters to celebrities who only need to cross the room to get a new coif from Vidal Sassoon's elite team of hair stylists. The average cost of a Oscar harido is a hair-raising $7000. Once you're all dolled up - it's back upstairs for a cocktail at Bacardi's O room - in case you're wondering - that's O for Orange. They've had a special cocktail designed for the big week - and hope it will make a big enough splash that punters will buy it year round. A couple blocks away - The Beverly Hills Four Seasons has their pastry chef working overtime in order to give each guest an Oscar-themed chocolate treat. If that isn't enough dessert though - guests can get an eyeful on chef Donald Wressell's annual chocolate homage to the five nominees for best picture.

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT. 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 09:00:11 .. >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS. >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY. 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE. >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT. THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN. >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES. 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES. >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS. 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF. THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS. 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES. BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR. DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION. 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION. 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE. 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 U.S. CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION. 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT. ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES. WITH THE SAME NUMBER. 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED. 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK. 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE. STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS. 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY. 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS. 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3%. >> RIGHT. 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT. WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH. 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT. >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR. I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE. 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY. 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW. >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS. 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK. 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK. SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES. 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE. >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY. 09:08:47 >> YES. THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS. COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER. AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING. 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY. 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE. >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE. 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT. >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL. 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE. 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO. 09:11:05 MR. RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS. >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM. 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY. 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE. 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US. 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER. WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS. >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA. I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START. 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED. 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK. SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE. >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT. >> CORRECT. 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY. 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION. 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER. 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS. 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY. WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS. MR. KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50%. 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE. >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT. 09:14:38 >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES. AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW. >> MR. RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000. 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE. SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY. 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS. THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA. WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA. AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE. 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT. 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS. 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS. 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED. SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM. 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES. 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD. 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD. 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL. IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES. ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE. 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY. >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES. WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL. I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU. AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY. MR. RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY. 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION. 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE. 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR. RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU. 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE. AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT. 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER. I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE. BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS. HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS. 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT. >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION. SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE. 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY. AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT. 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO. AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER. WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED. IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE. 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS. IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT. 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE. WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS. 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER. AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU. I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER. 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION. 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT. 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT. WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY. 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL. 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK. THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED. 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE U.S. SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR. BARRY BLACK. 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY. ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS. 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY. 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES. 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES. COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE. 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU. GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME. AMEN. 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED. 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT. 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED. 09:32:53 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE F.D.A. 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH. 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE. 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS. 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY. THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE. 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS. MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER. 09:33:48 MR. REID: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE. 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD. 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER. 09:34:24 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER. 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY. BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS. 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN. THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA. 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION. 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD. CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE. 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY. BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW. AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES. 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE. 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR. 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE. 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING. 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO. THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION. 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS. 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES. AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN. 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY. IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER. 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD. 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY. MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ. 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR. ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES. 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR. GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES. 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR. VITTER, 10 MINUTES. 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING. 09:38:28 MR. ENZI: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR. ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:38:36 THE F.D.A. HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH. THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR. THE F.D.A. ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS. AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR. VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS. 09:39:38 DR. VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD. 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION. HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES. 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 F.D.A. THE F.D.A. HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS. EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE F.D.A. NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT. HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE. WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING. 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE F.D.A. THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE F.D.A. COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY. BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION. 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 F.D.A. TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE. 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS. 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE F.D.A. DURING DR. VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE. SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE F.D.A. 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT. 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION. AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS. 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR. 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE. IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE. BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE F.D.A. AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR F.D.A. COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT. WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE F.D.A. DURING THE 110th CONGRESS. 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM. THE F.D.A. NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS. 09:42:40 DR. VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 "HELP" COMMITTEE. THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY. 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR. VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE F.D.A. WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY. 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. VOTING "YES" ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM. 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR. ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT. 09:43:40 MR. GRASSLEY: YES. MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE. 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE. 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT. 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD. 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC. I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS. 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, "QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION." 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL. 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT. 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS. 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST. THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS. AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- "IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES. 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS." IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC. 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED. 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC. 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- "CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY." IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES. 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- "CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS" OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION. NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs. 09:48:53 DOEHERTY. THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL. JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- "WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION." 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE F.D.A. UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR. VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE. 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED. ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED. NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION. 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING. WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT. 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION. IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING. MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE F.D.A. THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW. 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE. THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE F.D.A. HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO. 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN. 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE F.D.A. WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY. 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE F.D.A. HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG. 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE F.D.A. HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW. EVEN IN THE F.D.A. GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE. 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS" OR "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS" OR "AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE." 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS" "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION," "AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE?" I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED "WES" BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS. 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS. THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT. 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES. 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET. 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW. THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN. 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE F.D.A., THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC. 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT. THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND C.R.S. TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- "NO LEGAL BASIS" FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS. THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 C.R.S. SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING. C.R.S. CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT. 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, H.H.S., F.D.A., WITHIN H.H.S. SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS. 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED. IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER. AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY. 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY. IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO. 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY. 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE. AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE. 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING. MR. ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. WES. 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR. HERB BOCK'S POSITION. 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT. SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT. 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 09:00:11 .. >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS. >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY. 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE. >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT. THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN. >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES. 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES. >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS. 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF. THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS. 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES. BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR. DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION. 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION. 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE. 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 U.S. CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION. 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT. ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES. WITH THE SAME NUMBER. 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED. 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK. 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE. STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS. 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY. 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS. 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3%. >> RIGHT. 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT. WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH. 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT. >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR. I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE. 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY. 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW. >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS. 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK. 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK. SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES. 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE. >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY. 09:08:47 >> YES. THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS. COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER. AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING. 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY. 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE. >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE. 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT. >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL. 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE. 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO. 09:11:05 MR. RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS. >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM. 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY. 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE. 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US. 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER. WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS. >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA. I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START. 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED. 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK. SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE. >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT. >> CORRECT. 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY. 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION. 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER. 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS. 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY. WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS. MR. KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50%. 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE. >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT. 09:14:38 >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES. AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW. >> MR. RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000. 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE. SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY. 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS. THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA. WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA. AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE. 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT. 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS. 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS. 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED. SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM. 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES. 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD. 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD. 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL. IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES. ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE. 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY. >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES. WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL. I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU. AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY. MR. RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY. 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION. 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE. 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR. RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU. 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE. AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT. 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER. I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE. BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS. HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS. 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT. >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION. SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE. 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY. AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT. 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO. AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER. WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED. IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE. 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS. IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT. 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE. WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS. 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER. AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU. I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER. 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION. 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT. 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT. WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY. 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL. 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK. THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED. 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE U.S. SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR. BARRY BLACK. 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY. ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS. 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY. 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES. 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES. COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE. 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU. GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME. AMEN. 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED. 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT. 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED. 09:32:53 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE F.D.A. 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH. 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE. 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS. 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY. THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE. 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS. MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER. 09:33:48 MR. REID: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE. 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD. 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER. 09:34:24 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER. 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY. BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS. 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN. THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA. 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION. 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD. CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE. 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY. BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW. AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES. 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE. 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR. 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE. 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING. 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO. THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION. 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS. 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES. AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN. 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY. IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER. 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD. 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY. MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ. 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR. ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES. 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR. GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES. 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR. VITTER, 10 MINUTES. 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING. 09:38:28 MR. ENZI: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR. ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:38:36 THE F.D.A. HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH. THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR. THE F.D.A. ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS. AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR. VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS. 09:39:38 DR. VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD. 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION. HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES. 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 F.D.A. THE F.D.A. HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS. EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE F.D.A. NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT. HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE. WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING. 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE F.D.A. THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE F.D.A. COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY. BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION. 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 F.D.A. TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE. 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS. 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE F.D.A. DURING DR. VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE. SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE F.D.A. 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT. 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION. AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS. 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR. 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE. IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE. BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE F.D.A. AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR F.D.A. COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT. WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE F.D.A. DURING THE 110th CONGRESS. 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM. THE F.D.A. NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS. 09:42:40 DR. VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 "HELP" COMMITTEE. THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY. 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR. VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE F.D.A. WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY. 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. VOTING "YES" ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM. 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR. ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT. 09:43:40 MR. GRASSLEY: YES. MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE. 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE. 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT. 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD. 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC. I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS. 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, "QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION." 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL. 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT. 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS. 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST. THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS. AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- "IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES. 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS." IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC. 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED. 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC. 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- "CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY." IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES. 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- "CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS" OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION. NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs. 09:48:53 DOEHERTY. THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL. JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- "WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION." 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE F.D.A. UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR. VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE. 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED. ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED. NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION. 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING. WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT. 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION. IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING. MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE F.D.A. THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW. 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE. THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE F.D.A. HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO. 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN. 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE F.D.A. WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY. 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE F.D.A. HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG. 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE F.D.A. HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW. EVEN IN THE F.D.A. GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE. 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS" OR "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS" OR "AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE." 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS" "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION," "AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE?" I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED "WES" BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS. 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS. THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT. 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES. 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET. 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW. THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN. 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE F.D.A., THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC. 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT. THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND C.R.S. TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- "NO LEGAL BASIS" FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS. THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 C.R.S. SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING. C.R.S. CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT. 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, H.H.S., F.D.A., WITHIN H.H.S. SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS. 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED. IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER. AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY. 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY. IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO. 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY. 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE. AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE. 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING. MR. ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. WES. 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR. HERB BOCK'S POSITION. 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT. SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT. 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 09:00:11 .. >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS. >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY. 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE. >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT. THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN. >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES. 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES. >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS. 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF. THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS. 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES. BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR. DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION. 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION. 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE. 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 U.S. CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION. 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT. ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES. WITH THE SAME NUMBER. 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED. 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK. 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE. STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS. 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY. 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS. 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3%. >> RIGHT. 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT. WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH. 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT. >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR. I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE. 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY. 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW. >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS. 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK. 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK. SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES. 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE. >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY. 09:08:47 >> YES. THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS. COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER. AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING. 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY. 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE. >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE. 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT. >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL. 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE. 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO. 09:11:05 MR. RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS. >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM. 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY. 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE. 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US. 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER. WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS. >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA. I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START. 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED. 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK. SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE. >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT. >> CORRECT. 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY. 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION. 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER. 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS. 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY. WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS. MR. KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50%. 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE. >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT. 09:14:38 >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES. AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW. >> MR. RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000. 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE. SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY. 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS. THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA. WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA. AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE. 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT. 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS. 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS. 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED. SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM. 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES. 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD. 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD. 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL. IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES. ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE. 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY. >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES. WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL. I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU. AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY. MR. RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY. 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION. 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE. 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR. RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU. 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE. AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT. 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER. I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE. BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS. HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS. 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT. >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION. SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE. 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY. AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT. 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO. AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER. WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED. IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE. 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS. IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT. 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE. WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS. 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER. AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU. I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER. 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION. 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT. 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT. WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY. 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL. 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK. THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED. 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE U.S. SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR. BARRY BLACK. 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY. ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS. 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY. 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES. 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES. COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE. 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU. GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME. AMEN. 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED. 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT. 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED. 09:32:53 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE F.D.A. 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH. 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE. 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS. 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY. THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE. 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS. MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER. 09:33:48 MR. REID: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE. 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD. 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER. 09:34:24 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER. 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY. BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS. 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN. THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA. 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION. 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD. CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE. 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY. BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW. AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES. 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE. 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR. 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE. 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING. 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO. THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION. 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS. 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES. AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN. 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY. IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER. 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD. 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY. MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ. 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR. ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES. 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR. GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES. 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR. VITTER, 10 MINUTES. 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING. 09:38:28 MR. ENZI: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR. ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:38:36 THE F.D.A. HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH. THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR. THE F.D.A. ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS. AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR. VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS. 09:39:38 DR. VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD. 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION. HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES. 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 F.D.A. THE F.D.A. HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS. EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE F.D.A. NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT. HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE. WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING. 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE F.D.A. THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE F.D.A. COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY. BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION. 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 F.D.A. TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE. 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS. 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE F.D.A. DURING DR. VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE. SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE F.D.A. 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT. 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION. AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS. 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR. 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE. IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE. BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE F.D.A. AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR F.D.A. COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT. WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE F.D.A. DURING THE 110th CONGRESS. 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM. THE F.D.A. NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS. 09:42:40 DR. VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 "HELP" COMMITTEE. THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY. 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR. VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE F.D.A. WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY. 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. VOTING "YES" ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM. 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR. ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT. 09:43:40 MR. GRASSLEY: YES. MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE. 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE. 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT. 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD. 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC. I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS. 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, "QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION." 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL. 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT. 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS. 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST. THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS. AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- "IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES. 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS." IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC. 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED. 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC. 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- "CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY." IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES. 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- "CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS" OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION. NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs. 09:48:53 DOEHERTY. THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL. JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- "WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION." 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE F.D.A. UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR. VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE. 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED. ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED. NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION. 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING. WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT. 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION. IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING. MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE F.D.A. THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW. 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE. THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE F.D.A. HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO. 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN. 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE F.D.A. WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY. 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE F.D.A. HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG. 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE F.D.A. HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW. EVEN IN THE F.D.A. GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE. 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS" OR "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS" OR "AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE." 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS" "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION," "AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE?" I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED "WES" BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS. 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS. THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT. 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES. 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET. 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW. THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN. 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE F.D.A., THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC. 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT. THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND C.R.S. TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- "NO LEGAL BASIS" FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS. THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 C.R.S. SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING. C.R.S. CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT. 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, H.H.S., F.D.A., WITHIN H.H.S. SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS. 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED. IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER. AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY. 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY. IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO. 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY. 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE. AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE. 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING. MR. ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. WES. 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR. HERB BOCK'S POSITION. 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT. SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT. 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 09:00:11 .. >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS. >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY. 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE. >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT. THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN. >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES. 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES. >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS. 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF. THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS. 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES. BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR. DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION. 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION. 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE. 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 U.S. CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION. 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT. ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES. WITH THE SAME NUMBER. 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED. 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK. 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE. STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS. 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY. 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS. 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3%. >> RIGHT. 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT. WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH. 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT. >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR. I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE. 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY. 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW. >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS. 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK. 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK. SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES. 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE. >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY. 09:08:47 >> YES. THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS. COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER. AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING. 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY. 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE. >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE. 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT. >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL. 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE. 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO. 09:11:05 MR. RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS. >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM. 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY. 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE. 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US. 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER. WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS. >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA. I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START. 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED. 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK. SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE. >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT. >> CORRECT. 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY. 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION. 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER. 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS. 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY. WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS. MR. KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50%. 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE. >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT. 09:14:38 >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES. AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW. >> MR. RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000. 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE. SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY. 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS. THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA. WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA. AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE. 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT. 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS. 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS. 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED. SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM. 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES. 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD. 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD. 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL. IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES. ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE. 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY. >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES. WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL. I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU. AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY. MR. RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY. 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION. 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE. 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR. RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU. 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE. AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT. 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER. I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE. BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS. HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS. 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT. >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION. SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE. 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY. AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT. 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO. AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER. WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED. IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE. 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS. IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT. 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE. WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS. 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER. AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU. I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER. 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION. 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT. 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT. WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY. 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL. 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK. THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED. 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE U.S. SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR. BARRY BLACK. 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY. ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS. 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY. 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES. 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES. COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE. 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU. GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME. AMEN. 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED. 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT. 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED. 09:32:53 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE F.D.A. 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH. 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE. 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS. 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY. THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE. 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS. MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER. 09:33:48 MR. REID: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE. 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD. 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER. 09:34:24 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER. 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY. BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS. 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN. THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA. 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION. 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD. CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE. 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY. BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW. AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES. 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE. 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR. 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE. 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING. 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO. THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION. 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS. 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES. AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN. 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY. IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER. 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD. 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY. MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ. 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR. ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES. 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR. GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES. 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR. VITTER, 10 MINUTES. 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING. 09:38:28 MR. ENZI: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR. ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:38:36 THE F.D.A. HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH. THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR. THE F.D.A. ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS. AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR. VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS. 09:39:38 DR. VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD. 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION. HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES. 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 F.D.A. THE F.D.A. HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS. EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE F.D.A. NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT. HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE. WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING. 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE F.D.A. THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE F.D.A. COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY. BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION. 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 F.D.A. TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE. 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS. 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE F.D.A. DURING DR. VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE. SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE F.D.A. 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT. 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION. AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS. 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR. 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE. IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE. BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE F.D.A. AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR F.D.A. COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT. WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE F.D.A. DURING THE 110th CONGRESS. 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM. THE F.D.A. NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS. 09:42:40 DR. VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 "HELP" COMMITTEE. THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY. 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR. VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE F.D.A. WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY. 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. VOTING "YES" ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM. 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR. ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT. 09:43:40 MR. GRASSLEY: YES. MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE. 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE. 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT. 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD. 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC. I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS. 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, "QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION." 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL. 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT. 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS. 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST. THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS. AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- "IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES. 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS." IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC. 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED. 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC. 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- "CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY." IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES. 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- "CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS" OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION. NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs. 09:48:53 DOEHERTY. THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL. JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- "WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION." 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE F.D.A. UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR. VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE. 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED. ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED. NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION. 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING. WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT. 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION. IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING. MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE F.D.A. THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW. 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE. THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE F.D.A. HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO. 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN. 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE F.D.A. WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY. 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE F.D.A. HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG. 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE F.D.A. HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW. EVEN IN THE F.D.A. GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE. 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS" OR "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS" OR "AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE." 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS" "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION," "AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE?" I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED "WES" BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS. 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS. THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT. 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES. 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET. 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW. THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN. 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE F.D.A., THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC. 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT. THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND C.R.S. TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- "NO LEGAL BASIS" FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS. THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 C.R.S. SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING. C.R.S. CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT. 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, H.H.S., F.D.A., WITHIN H.H.S. SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS. 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED. IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER. AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY. 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY. IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO. 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY. 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE. AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE. 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING. MR. ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. WES. 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR. HERB BOCK'S POSITION. 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT. SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT. 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 09:00:11 .. >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS. >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY. 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE. >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT. THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN. >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES. 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES. >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS. 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF. THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS. 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES. BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR. DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION. 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION. 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE. 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 U.S. CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION. 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT. ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES. WITH THE SAME NUMBER. 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED. 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK. 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE. STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS. 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY. 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS. 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3%. >> RIGHT. 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT. WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH. 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT. >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR. I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE. 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY. 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW. >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS. 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK. 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK. SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES. 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE. >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY. 09:08:47 >> YES. THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS. COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER. AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING. 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY. 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE. >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE. 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT. >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL. 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE. 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO. 09:11:05 MR. RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS. >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM. 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY. 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE. 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US. 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER. WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS. >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA. I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START. 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED. 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK. SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE. >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT. >> CORRECT. 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY. 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION. 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER. 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS. 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY. WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS. MR. KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50%. 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE. >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT. 09:14:38 >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES. AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW. >> MR. RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000. 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE. SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY. 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS. THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA. WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA. AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE. 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT. 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS. 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS. 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED. SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM. 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES. 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD. 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD. 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL. IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES. ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE. 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY. >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES. WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL. I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU. AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY. MR. RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY. 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION. 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE. 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR. RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU. 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE. AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT. 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER. I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE. BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS. HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS. 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT. >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION. SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE. 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY. AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT. 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO. AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER. WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED. IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE. 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS. IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT. 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE. WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS. 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER. AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU. I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER. 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION. 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT. 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT. WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY. 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL. 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK. THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED. 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE U.S. SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR. BARRY BLACK. 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY. ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS. 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY. 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES. 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES. COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE. 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU. GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME. AMEN. 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED. 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT. 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED. 09:32:53 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE F.D.A. 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH. 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE. 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS. 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY. THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE. 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS. MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER. 09:33:48 MR. REID: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE. 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD. 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER. 09:34:24 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER. 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY. BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS. 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN. THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA. 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION. 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD. CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE. 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY. BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW. AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES. 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE. 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR. 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE. 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING. 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO. THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION. 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS. 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES. AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN. 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY. IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER. 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD. 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY. MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ. 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR. ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES. 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR. GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES. 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR. VITTER, 10 MINUTES. 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING. 09:38:28 MR. ENZI: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR. ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:38:36 THE F.D.A. HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH. THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR. THE F.D.A. ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS. AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR. VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS. 09:39:38 DR. VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD. 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION. HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES. 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 F.D.A. THE F.D.A. HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS. EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE F.D.A. NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT. HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE. WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING. 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE F.D.A. THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE F.D.A. COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY. BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION. 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 F.D.A. TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE. 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS. 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE F.D.A. DURING DR. VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE. SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE F.D.A. 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT. 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION. AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS. 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR. 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE. IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE. BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE F.D.A. AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR F.D.A. COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT. WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE F.D.A. DURING THE 110th CONGRESS. 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM. THE F.D.A. NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS. 09:42:40 DR. VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 "HELP" COMMITTEE. THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY. 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR. VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE F.D.A. WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY. 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. VOTING "YES" ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM. 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR. ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT. 09:43:40 MR. GRASSLEY: YES. MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE. 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE. 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT. 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD. 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC. I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS. 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, "QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION." 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL. 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT. 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS. 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST. THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS. AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- "IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES. 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS." IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC. 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED. 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC. 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- "CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY." IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES. 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- "CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS" OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION. NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs. 09:48:53 DOEHERTY. THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL. JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- "WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION." 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE F.D.A. UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR. VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE. 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED. ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED. NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION. 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING. WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT. 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION. IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING. MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE F.D.A. THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW. 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE. THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE F.D.A. HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO. 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN. 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE F.D.A. WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY. 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE F.D.A. HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG. 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE F.D.A. HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW. EVEN IN THE F.D.A. GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE. 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS" OR "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS" OR "AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE." 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS" "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION," "AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE?" I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED "WES" BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS. 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS. THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT. 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES. 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET. 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW. THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN. 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE F.D.A., THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC. 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT. THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND C.R.S. TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- "NO LEGAL BASIS" FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS. THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 C.R.S. SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING. C.R.S. CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT. 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, H.H.S., F.D.A., WITHIN H.H.S. SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS. 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED. IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER. AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY. 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY. IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO. 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY. 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE. AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE. 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING. MR. ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. WES. 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR. HERB BOCK'S POSITION. 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT. SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT. 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 09:00:11 .. >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS. >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY. 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE. >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT. THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN. >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES. 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES. >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS. 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF. THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS. 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES. BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR. DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION. 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION. 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE. 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 U.S. CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION. 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT. ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES. WITH THE SAME NUMBER. 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED. 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK. 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE. STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS. 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY. 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS. 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3%. >> RIGHT. 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT. WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH. 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT. >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR. I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE. 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY. 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW. >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS. 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK. 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK. SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES. 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE. >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY. 09:08:47 >> YES. THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS. COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER. AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING. 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY. 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE. >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE. 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT. >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL. 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE. 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO. 09:11:05 MR. RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS. >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM. 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY. 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE. 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US. 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER. WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS. >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA. I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START. 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED. 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK. SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE. >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT. >> CORRECT. 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY. 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION. 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER. 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS. 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY. WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS. MR. KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50%. 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE. >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT. 09:14:38 >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES. AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW. >> MR. RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000. 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE. SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY. 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS. THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA. WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA. AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE. 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT. 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS. 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS. 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED. SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM. 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES. 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD. 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD. 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL. IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES. ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE. 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY. >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES. WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL. I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU. AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY. MR. RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY. 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION. 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE. 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR. RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU. 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE. AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT. 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER. I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE. BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS. HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS. 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT. >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION. SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE. 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY. AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT. 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO. AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER. WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED. IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE. 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS. IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT. 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE. WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS. 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER. AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU. I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER. 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION. 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT. 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT. WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY. 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL. 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK. THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED. 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE U.S. SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR. BARRY BLACK. 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY. ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS. 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY. 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES. 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES. COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE. 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU. GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME. AMEN. 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED. 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT. 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED. 09:32:53 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE F.D.A. 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH. 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE. 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS. 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY. THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE. 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS. MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER. 09:33:48 MR. REID: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE. 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD. 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER. 09:34:24 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER. 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY. BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS. 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN. THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA. 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION. 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD. CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE. 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY. BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW. AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES. 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE. 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR. 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE. 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING. 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO. THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION. 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS. 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES. AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN. 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY. IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER. 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD. 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY. MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ. 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR. ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES. 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR. GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES. 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR. VITTER, 10 MINUTES. 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING. 09:38:28 MR. ENZI: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR. ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:38:36 THE F.D.A. HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH. THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR. THE F.D.A. ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS. AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR. VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS. 09:39:38 DR. VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD. 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION. HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES. 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 F.D.A. THE F.D.A. HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS. EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE F.D.A. NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT. HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE. WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING. 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE F.D.A. THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE F.D.A. COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY. BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION. 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 F.D.A. TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE. 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS. 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE F.D.A. DURING DR. VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE. SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE F.D.A. 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT. 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION. AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS. 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR. 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE. IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE. BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE F.D.A. AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR F.D.A. COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT. WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE F.D.A. DURING THE 110th CONGRESS. 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM. THE F.D.A. NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS. 09:42:40 DR. VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 "HELP" COMMITTEE. THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY. 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR. VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE F.D.A. WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY. 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. VOTING "YES" ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM. 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR. ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT. 09:43:40 MR. GRASSLEY: YES. MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE. 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE. 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT. 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD. 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC. I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS. 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, "QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION." 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL. 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT. 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS. 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST. THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS. AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- "IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES. 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS." IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC. 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED. 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC. 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- "CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY." IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES. 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- "CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS" OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION. NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs. 09:48:53 DOEHERTY. THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL. JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- "WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION." 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE F.D.A. UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR. VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE. 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED. ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED. NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION. 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING. WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT. 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION. IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING. MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE F.D.A. THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW. 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE. THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE F.D.A. HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO. 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN. 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE F.D.A. WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY. 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE F.D.A. HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG. 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE F.D.A. HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW. EVEN IN THE F.D.A. GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE. 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS" OR "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS" OR "AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE." 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS" "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION," "AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE?" I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED "WES" BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS. 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS. THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT. 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES. 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET. 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW. THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN. 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE F.D.A., THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC. 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT. THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND C.R.S. TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- "NO LEGAL BASIS" FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS. THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 C.R.S. SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING. C.R.S. CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT. 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, H.H.S., F.D.A., WITHIN H.H.S. SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS. 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED. IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER. AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY. 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY. IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO. 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY. 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE. AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE. 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING. MR. ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. WES. 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR. HERB BOCK'S POSITION. 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT. SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A

09:00:00 MANY MONTHS TO GET THAT MONEY OUT. 09:00:01 >> HAD THERE EVER BEEN ANOTHER INSTANCE OF WHERE THE SYSTEM HAD 09:00:07 BEEN DISABLED? >> WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 09:00:11 .. >> IF THEY USE CHASEPOINT, I'M 09:00:53 NOT SAYING THEY CAN ELIMINATE FRAUD BUT CAN MAKE A SIGNIFICANT 09:00:56 DENT IN FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE BY UP IMPLEMENTING MAIN OF THOSE 09:01:00 CONTROLS PEOPLE FEMA OR OTHER ONES THIS DO -- CHOICE POINT 09:01:05 DOES, IMPLEMENTING THE CONTROLS. >> I STILL GO BACK TO THE POINT, 09:01:08 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CONTROLS, YOU CAN WRITE THEM DOWN ON A PIECE 09:01:12 OF PAPER BUT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEST THESE CONTROLS, BECAUSE, 09:01:17 QUITE HONESTLY IT IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SAY YOU 09:01:20 FOUND THE PROPERTY BUT UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW 09:01:22 IF YOU HAVE IT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU TAN CAULK 09:01:26 ABOUT THE CONTROL BUT I REALLY THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE 09:01:29 OF AN AGREEMENT WHERE SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY COME IN AND TEST 09:01:33 WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND UNTIL THAT 09:01:36 IS DONE, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY THAT IT WILL BE SATISFACTORY. 09:01:45 >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS UNTIL YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THIS YOU 09:01:48 ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHETHER IT MEETS THE KIND OF 09:01:52 SPECIFICATIONS AN STANDARDS YOU WANT TO SEE TO PREVENT FURTHER 09:01:55 WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE. >> NOT ONLY REVIEW IT, BUT YOU 09:01:57 HAVE TO TEST IT. THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MANY 09:02:00 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COME UP, WE HAVE SO MANY 09:02:04 CITIZENS NEEDED ASSISTANCE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT 09:02:06 STORIES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS S YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TEST 09:02:10 YOUR PROGRAM, FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OVERFLOW OF 09:02:14 PROBLEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR YOUR MANPOWER SO 09:02:17 THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS, TO MAKE SURE THE 09:02:21 PEOPLE THAT NEED THE ASSISTANCE GET IT AS QUICKLY AS THEY 09:02:23 POSSIBLY CAN. >> SENATOR, CAN I ADD? 09:02:26 WE DID TEST, I MEAN, WITH THIS DISASTER WE TESTED AND THAT IS 09:02:29 ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST IS THEM SENDING IS MONEY, 09:02:32 BECAUSE WE WENT IN WITH BOGUS INFORMATION AND TESTED THE 09:02:35 SYSTEM VARIOUS WAYS TO SEE IF WE COULD BEAT IT AND THAT IS ONE OF 09:02:38 THE RESULTS AND DID IT DONE THE HALL FROM OUR OFFICES. 09:02:41 >> AND IN TERMS OF TESTING, SOME OF THE SCENARIOS, I MEAN, ONE -- 09:02:45 LET'S SAY THERE WERE TWO BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS, DO WE 09:02:49 HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD OPERATE UNDER THOSE 09:02:52 CIRCUMSTANCES. >> THEY HAVE AN EDIT THAT CAN 09:02:55 ACTUALLY IDENTIFY PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS FOR BOTH DISASTERS. 09:03:00 IN THE PARTICULAR CASE, BASED ON THE WORK WE DID, WE FOUND THAT 09:03:04 THE -- THEY TURNED THE EDIT OFF. THEREFORE, IF THE EDIT WAS IN 09:03:08 PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL TARGETS. 09:03:12 WE ARE NOT SAYING ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DUPLICATE 09:03:15 PAYMENT ARE FRAUD CASES. BUT, WE HAVE TALK TO THE TASK 09:03:20 FORCE IN LOUISIANA, MR. DUGAS AT JUSTICE AND WE BELIEVE THESE 09:03:24 CASES ARE WORTHY OF REFERRING TO THEM FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION. 09:03:28 >> I WANT TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST THE SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE 09:03:31 ESTABLISHED IN PLACE REGARDING IDENTITY VERIFICATION. 09:03:35 ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED WAS THE -- THAT YOU USED SOCIAL 09:03:39 SECURITY NUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE USE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:41 THAT WERE NOT THEIR OWN, COULD GET DISASTER ASSISTANCE. 09:03:44 DO YOU HAVE ANY ESSENTIAL OF WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE 09:03:47 ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS USING IMPROPER SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS 09:03:52 OR WHETHER THIS SYSTEM WOULD IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A 09:03:56 U.S. CITIZEN, THE PARAMETERS OF WHETHER THIS PROBLEM WOULD BE 09:03:59 ADDRESSED WITH THE SYSTEM IN PLACE RIGHT NOW? 09:04:01 >> THE CHOICEPOINT SYSTEM COULD HAVE IDENTIFIED IF ONE PERSON 09:04:05 TRIED TO GET IN WITH BAD INFORMATION. 09:04:07 MOST CASES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. 09:04:09 I THINK THE FOREIGN STUDENTS COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IF 09:04:12 THEY HAD SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THEY 09:04:15 WERE INELIGIBLE FOR THE STUDENT. ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS, 09:04:19 PEOPLE USED THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 20 TIMES AND 09:04:21 WERE ABLE TO GET -- AND HOPEFULLY THEY'VE PUT IN 09:04:23 SOMETHING, AFTER CHICAGO POINT SAYS THAT IS A REAL SOCIAL 09:04:25 SECURITY NUMBER, SOMEONE IS MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT 09:04:28 REGISTERING 20 TIMES. WITH THE SAME NUMBER. 09:04:31 >> I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIGURE 09:04:34 OUT WAYS TO ENSURE THAT -- WELL, MAYBE THAT IS OR RESPOND, THE 09:04:38 SYSTEM IS TESTED AND THAT IT IS CHECKED. 09:04:42 I HATE TO COME BACK AFTER THE NEXT DISASTER WITH SIMILAR 09:04:45 PROBLEMS AND THE RESPONSE IS WE THOUGHT IT WORKED BUT DIDN'T 09:04:48 KNOW AND IN THE END IT DIDN'T WORK. 09:04:50 THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR. 09:04:55 COULD YOU ASK SOMEONE TO PUT UP THE VERY FIRST POSTER THAT WAS 09:04:59 UP? >> JUST TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE 09:05:13 HAVE HERE. STARTING FROM THE LEFT, LOOKS 09:05:14 LIKE A BILLION DOLLARS, THE GAO ESTIMATE OF IMPROPER STATEMENTS. 09:05:21 >> 2006 AND THAT WAS BASED UPON A STATISTICAL SAMPLE WE DID OF 09:05:24 EVERY PAYMENT AND REGISTRATION THAT WAS MAY. 09:05:27 >> AND AS OF ABOUT A MONTH AGO IT LOOKS LIKE FEMA IDENTIFIED 09:05:32 ROUGHLY 30% OF -- >> IMPROPER PAYMENTS. 09:05:37 >> AND THEY'VE GONE OUT AND COLLECTED $7 MILLION WHICH IS 09:05:43 ABOUT 2-3%. >> RIGHT. 09:05:44 >> OF THE AMOUNT. WOULD YOU SAY THE $7 MILLION, 09:05:48 2-3% IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT? 09:05:50 A BIT LOW? I CAN'T RATION IT IS A BIT HIGH. 09:05:56 HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE IT. >> I EXPECT A COUPLE PENNIES ON 09:05:59 THE DOLLAR. I DON'T EXPECT A LOT MORE. 09:06:01 MAYBE OVER TIME THEY'LL GET MORE AND IT GETS INTO THE OTHER ISSUE 09:06:04 AND I THINK SENATOR COLLINS MENTIONED, FEMA ALSO HAS MAYBE 09:06:07 $8 MILLION OF RECEIVABLES NOW AND NOW FEMA IS BECOMING A DEBT 09:06:11 COLLECTION AGENCY AND THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE WANT FEMA DOING 09:06:14 AND SO, BUT, CERTAINLY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET MORE BUT 09:06:17 IT WILL NOT BE MUCH AT THE END OF THE DAY. 09:06:20 >> ARE THERE OTHERS, OTHER ENTITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, TO 09:06:23 WHOM THEY COULD DISPATCH OR TURN OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEBT 09:06:29 COLLECTION, MAYBE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. 09:06:30 I DON'T KNOW. >> THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO 09:06:32 WORK, ONCE THEY'VE ISSUED THE LITERS, SAYING YOU SO US THIS 09:06:38 MONEY BACK, ET CETERA, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THE WAY 09:06:40 THE GOVERNMENT PROCESS WORKS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REFER IT TO 09:06:43 THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT WHO HAS AN OFFSET PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY 09:06:45 IT WILL END UP WITH COLLECTION AGENTS POSSIBLY AND THEY MAY OFF 09:06:49 SIT AGAINST THINGS LIKE REFUND, TAX REFUNDS OR OTHER THINGS AND 09:06:53 THERE IS A PROCESS FEMA SHOULD FOLLOW, ONCE IT GETS AFTER A 09:06:57 CERTAIN AGE GOES TO TREASURY AND COLLECTION AGENTS AND THEY 09:06:59 OFFSET AGAINST OTHER GOVERNMENT DISBURSEMENTS. 09:07:01 >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THIS 09:07:04 COMMITTEE OR IN CONGRESS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER FROM 7 09:07:10 MILLION, TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT, TO TAKE OR -- MAKE I 09:07:16 $290 MILLION, BEING IDENTIFIED CLOSER TO THE BILLION DOLLARS 09:07:20 THAT IT -- YOU INVITED -- IDENTIFIEDEN YOUR EARLIER WORK. 09:07:25 >> WE UNDERSTAND THEY'VE SHARED WITH SOME OF THE COMMITTEE STAFF 09:07:30 THERE IS MORE REKRUMENTS THAT THEY -- RECOUPMENTS THAT CAN 09:07:34 MAKE THE $290 MILLION GROW, THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN YOU COLLECT 09:07:39 THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE FRAUDSTERS, THEY ARE 09:07:43 NE AND IF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MY MIGHT NOT BE FRAUD LEN AND I'LL 09:07:47 USE THE STUDENTS, A LOT OF STUDENTS APPARENTLY SPENT THE 09:07:50 MONEY AND NOW SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME 09:07:52 PAYING THE MONEY BACK. SO, AGAIN, IF YOU SPENT THE 09:07:56 MONEY ITS HARD TO PAY IT BACK SOMETIMES. 09:07:58 OWE, IT WILL -- SO IT WILL BE, I THINK GOOD MANAGEMENT CAN GET 09:08:02 SEVERAL PERCENT BUT WILL BE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM GETTING A LOT 09:08:05 BUT WHAT YOU C DO IS PROVIDE OVERSIGHT OF FEMA TO MAKE SURE 09:08:09 THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PROCESSES, BECAUSE THE MORE 09:08:12 EFFECTIVE WAY IS FRAUD PREVENTION AND NOW THAT YOU ARE 09:08:14 HERE WHERE YOU ARE WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RECOVER AS MUCH AS 09:08:17 POSSIBLE. >> I THINK WHAT YOU SAID, THERE 09:08:20 IS REALLY CRITICAL, AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR US TO DO 09:08:23 THE JOB AT THE FRONT END AND FEMA TO DO THE RIGHT JOB AT THE 09:08:26 FRONT END, WHEN THE MONEY IS OUT IT IS FOR THE MOST PART, GONE, 09:08:30 OUT OF HERE. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND 09:08:35 POSTER THAT YOU HAD UP THERE, PLEASE? 09:08:44 JUST EXPLAIN THIS ONE AGAIN FOR YOU, IF YOU WOULD, BRIEFLY. 09:08:47 >> YES. THIS IS INDIVIDUAL THAT ARE 09:08:49 STAYING AT FEMA PROVIDED HOUSING AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT 09:08:52 IS MOBILE HOMES AN TRAILERS. COULD BE AHO TELL, HOTELS HAVE 09:08:55 THE SAME ISSUE, APARTMENTS HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. 09:08:58 THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FREE HOUSING UNDER THE PROGRAM, IF 09:09:00 THEY ARE A LEGIT MAT VICTIM AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AT THE SAME 09:09:04 TIME THEY HAVE FREE HOUSING FEMA SENT A CHECK REIMBURSING THEM 09:09:08 FOR RENTAL THEY WERE NOT INCURRING AND THE GOVERNMENT 09:09:10 BASICALLY PAID TWICE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS' HOUSING AND WHETHER 09:09:14 IT ES FRAUD DEPENDS ON CERTAIN CASES AND SOME MIGHT BE PEOPLE, 09:09:16 SAY, HEY I GOT A CHECK FROM FEMA FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE THOUGH I'M 09:09:20 STAYING AT A FREE HOTEL OR IN THIS CASE A MOBILE HOME OR 09:09:23 TRAILER. AND THAT IS WHAT THAT REPRESENTS 09:09:26 AND AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TWICE FOR THE SAME THING. 09:09:28 >> THE COURTS RECENTLY RULED THAT -- AT LEAST, FEDERAL 09:09:33 DISTRICT COURT RECENTLY RULED FEMA NEEDED TO CONTINUE 09:09:37 PROVIDING HOUSING ASSISTANCE FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN 09:09:40 DISPLACED. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS 09:09:45 SITUATION, OR DOES IT? >> IT MAY. 09:09:47 I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, FEMA MAKING SURE 09:09:49 PEOPLE ARE ALERTED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SPEND THE 09:09:52 MONEY ON AND GETS BACK TO THE SAME THING, THE DEBIT CARDS AND 09:09:55 FEMA WAS NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY AND GOT INTO 09:09:58 CERTAIN ISSUES BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW IT RELATES, THERE MAY BE 09:10:03 OVERLAP WITH THE ISSUE. >> WHAT KIND OF ASSURANCES CAN 09:10:05 YOU GIVE US THAT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE NEXT DISASTER OR NEXT 09:10:09 HURRICANE OR FLOOD, THAT FEMA HAS LEARNED LESSONS, SO THAT WE 09:10:13 WON'T REPLICATE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE AS YOU 09:10:17 POINTED OUT, ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT IS GONE. 09:10:19 >> ONE OF THE FRUSTRATING PARTS FROM WHERE WE SIT IS WE CAN'T DO 09:10:23 IT, WE CAN ONLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE GIVEN THEM WHAT WE 09:10:27 THINK ARE PRACTICABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE RECOMMENDATIONS 09:10:30 THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HARJ LEGITIMATE VICTIMS BUT HELP US 09:10:33 REDUCE FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE AND SO, SRM OUR FOLLOW-UP AND 09:10:36 MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE'S FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE USEFUL IN HOLDING 09:10:40 FEMA'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND MAKING SURE THEY DO BETTER NEXT 09:10:43 TIME AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH THE 09:10:46 COMMITTEE ON THAT POINT. >> THAT IS ONE OUR SUBCOMMITTEE 09:10:48 MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE NEXT YEAR AS WELL. 09:10:50 THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE. 09:10:56 >> I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO THE POSTER BOARD OF THE DISASTER 09:11:01 ASSISTANCE CHECK RECEIVED BY GAO. 09:11:05 MR. RYAN, AT FIRST, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW SOMEONE FROM GAO RECEIVED 09:11:11 THIS. >> WE TESTED THE SYSTEM. 09:11:15 WE TESTED THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF THE CONTROL, THE UP-FRONT 09:11:19 CONTROLS WERE IN PLACE TO STOP A PERSON LIKE MYSELF AND THE 09:11:24 AGENTS THAT SIT BEHIND ME FROM STEALING THE MONEY. 09:11:27 WE CREATED IDENTITIES, WE USED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS THAT 09:11:30 WERE NOTLY,ED TO THOSE IDENTITIES, AND -- NOT LINKED TO 09:11:34 THOSE IDENTITIES AND WENT ON-LINE FIRST TO TRY TO 09:11:37 REGISTER. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. 09:11:39 BECAUSE OF THE ON-LINE VERIFICATION PROCESS, STOPPED US 09:11:43 BECAUSE IT IDENTIFIED US NOT AS REAL PEOPLE. 09:11:46 HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM SAID IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH, CALL US. 09:11:50 WELL, WE CALLED, USED THE SAME INFORMATION, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 09:11:54 REGISTER. WE PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION, WHICH 09:11:58 WE COUNTERFEITED, MANUFACTURED, THEY ACCEPTED IT, AND IN THE 09:12:03 PROCESS, PROCEEDED TO SEND US THIS CHECK ALONG WITH OTHER 09:12:07 CHECKS. >> ISN'T IT PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:12 VERIFY AN IDENTITY AND A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO MAKE SURE 09:12:15 THAT THEY MATCH? WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY EASY TO 09:12:19 PREVENT THIS KIND OF BLATANT FRAUD? 09:12:22 >> I THINK THAT FEMA, IN USING THE INTERNET SYSTEM, HAD THE 09:12:26 RIGHT IDEA. I THINK IT WAS A GREAT START. 09:12:28 BUT, THE PROBLEM WAS, THAT YOU WENT TWO DIFFERENT PATHS AND 09:12:32 THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 09:12:34 IF YOU -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE LEFT YOU SHOULD DO IT 09:12:37 ON THE RIGHT AND THERE IS WHERE THE VULNERABILITY EXISTED. 09:12:40 >> WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE INTERNET, TO THE WEB AND GOT 09:12:44 KICK BACK. SO, WE WENT TO THE PHONE CALLS 09:12:47 AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO GOT KICK OUT AND THEY DIDN'T KEEP 09:12:50 TRACK OF WHO GOT KICKED OUT EITHER TO MAKE SURE IF THEY 09:12:53 CALLED, THEY'D SAY YOU TRIED AND WE REJECTED YOU ANDIDN'T HAVE 09:12:57 THAT IN PLACE. >> AND WHILE THERE WERE CONTROLS 09:12:59 IF YOU APPLIED VIA THE INTERNET, THOSE SAME CONTROLS DID NOT 09:13:04 EXIST IF YOU CALLED UP AND APPLIED, WHICH IS WHY YOU WERE 09:13:09 SUCCESSFUL WHEN YOU USED THE TELEPHONE APPLICATION PROCESS, 09:13:12 CORRECT. >> CORRECT. 09:13:15 >> WHAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THIS IS, IT IS NOT A VERY 09:13:20 SOPHISTICATED FRAUD TO MAKE UP AN IDEITY AND A SOCIAL 09:13:23 SECURITY NUMBER AND YET, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. 09:13:26 BUT YOU FIRST TESTIFIED ABOUT DOING THIS BACK IN FEBRUARY, IF 09:13:32 YOU -- IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY. 09:13:36 SO THIS RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING QUESTION. 09:13:39 HAS FEMA TRIED TO RECOUP THIS MONEY? 09:13:43 >> WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECOUPING LETTER. 09:13:46 AND WE HAVE NOT CASHED THE CHECKS. 09:13:48 WHICH IS KIND OF A CLUE THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE LOOKING AT 09:13:52 WHO IS SPENDING THE MONEY. WE ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PEOPLE 09:13:56 THAT HAVEN'T CASHED THE CHECKS, SO -- 09:13:58 >> THAT I WOULD GUESS. MR. KUNTZ, BASED ON THE -- KUTZ 09:14:07 BASED ON THE REVIEW AND INVESTIGATION YOU HAVE DONE, 09:14:10 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REAL LIKELIHOOD IS OF FEMA BEING ABLE 09:14:14 TO RECOVER A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE IMPROPER FRAUDULENT 09:14:19 PAYMENT, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY 50%. 09:14:23 >> ALMOST ZERO% CHANCE. >> BECAUSE IN MANY CASES AS YOU 09:14:29 HAVE POINTED OUT, IF SOMEONE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED FRAUD 09:14:34 THEY WILL NOT STICK AROUND TO BE CAUGHT. 09:14:38 >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. 09:14:40 >> BUT SECOND, IF SOMEONE RECEIVED A CHECK AND THOUGHT, 09:14:43 GEE, WHAT GOOD FORTUNE THAT I GOT THIS PAYMENT OR MAYBE I'M 09:14:46 ALLOWED TO CORRECT TWICE BECAUSE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT HURRICANES, 09:14:49 ISN'T IT VERY LIKELY THAT MONEY IS LONG GONE? 09:14:52 >> YES. AND AGAIN THEY SPENT IT, AGAIN, 09:14:54 LIKE OUR RECENT EXAMPLES OF THE STUDENTS, MANY OF THEM HAD SPENT 09:14:57 THE MONEY ALREADY AND WHAT THEY SPENT IT ON WE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP 09:15:00 ON BUT, YEAH, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING IT BACK 09:15:04 NOW. >> MR. RYAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT 09:15:07 YOU INVESTIGATED THE CASE OF THE CRAB HOUSE WHERE THE 25 09:15:14 TEMPORARY WORKERS RECEIVED OVER $150,000. 09:15:18 IN ASSISTANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY 09:15:22 INELIGIBLE. SHOULD FEMA HAVE KNOWN THAT THE 09:15:26 WORKERS WERE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE THIS ASSISTANCE? 09:15:30 DID YOU FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT FEMA HAD DOCUMENTED THAT SHOULD 09:15:35 HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT THIS ELIGIBILITY. 09:15:39 >> IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE INDIVIDUAL WERE HERE ON WORK 09:15:42 VISAS. THEY WERE WORKING AT THE CRAB 09:15:45 HOUSE, WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME, THE OWNER TOOK THE EMPLOYEES AND 09:15:48 WENT TO NA. WHILE THEY WERE IN FLORIDA THE 09:15:52 OWNER OF THE BUSINESS MADE SURE THEY HAD ALL THEIR WORKING VISAS 09:15:55 TOOK THEM DOWN TO FEMA AND PROVIDED THE VISAS, PROVIDED THE 09:16:00 LOCATION TO THE WORKER TO GO TO, AND THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE 09:16:04 -- HAD A WORKING VISA. AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO FEMA, 09:16:08 SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION WAS RECORDED IN THE DATABASE. 09:16:11 AND WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, WE FOUND IT. 09:16:20 WHAT I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT IS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THE 09:16:24 QUESTION IS ASKED, ARE YOU A LEGAL ALIEN AND IN THESE 09:16:27 PARTICULAR CASES WITHOUT FURTHER EXPLANATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING 09:16:30 BY THE FEMA EMPLOYEE, THESE PEOPLE WERE LEGAL ALIENS. 09:16:34 AND THEY WERE HERE ON PROPER WORK VISAS. 09:16:38 WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS, IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK 09:16:41 THAT QUESTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE EITHER A DROP-DOWN SCREEN OR ASK 09:16:46 THE APPROPRIATE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, ARE YOU HERE ON A 09:16:48 STUDENT VISA, ARE YOU HERE ON A H1 OR H2-TYPE VISA SO THERE IS A 09:16:54 BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON WHO IS PRESENTING THE 09:16:56 INFORMATION SO THEY CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY 09:16:58 ARE ENTITLED OR NOT ENTITLED. SO, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I 09:17:02 WILL SAY THAT THESE 5 PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY, I CANNOT TELL YOU IF 09:17:08 THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THE VISAS 09:17:12 WERE VALID OR INVALLEY. I CAN'T TELL YOU IF -- IN VALID, 09:17:17 I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY SHOULD HAVE OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN 09:17:20 BENEFITS, I WILL TELL YOU, THOUGH, WE REFERRED IT TO THE 09:17:23 TASK FORCE AND BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE INTERVIEWED 09:17:25 AND CRIMINAL CASES STARTED AGAINST THEM. 09:17:27 >> AND SOME OF THEM PROVIDED FICTITIOUS INFORMATION AND ARE 09:17:32 SUSPICIOUS FRAUD CASES, THE ONES WITH THE VISAS SCANNED IN TO THE 09:17:36 SYSTEM WERE FROM MEXICO AND THE OTHER ONES, THERE WAS NOTHING IN 09:17:39 THE SYSTEM AND WHEN WE CHECKED THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, 09:17:41 THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM AND SOME HAD NEVER BEEN ISSUED 09:17:45 BEFORE AND SOME OF THESE COULD BE FRAUD CASES. 09:17:47 >> AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, BECAUSE IN SOME 09:17:50 OF THESE CASES, WHAT YOU ARE FINDING IS OUT RIGHT FRAUD. 09:17:56 MANUFACTURED SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. 09:18:01 FALSE IDENTITIES, OTHER INDICATORS OF DELIBERATE FRAUD. 09:18:04 BUT, IN SOME OF THESE CASES, THE INDIVIDUALS, I SUSPECT THE 09:18:09 INTERNATIONAL STUDENT MAY BE EXAMPLES OF THIS, PRESENTED 09:18:15 LEGITIMATE, DOCUMENTICIAN TO FEMA THAT SHOULD HAVE LED FEMA 09:18:21 TO SAY YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE AND THERE WASN'T 09:18:26 FRAUD ON BEHALF OF THE CLAIMANT IN SOME OF THESE CASES, BUT, 09:18:31 FEMA, THROUGH SLOPPY PROCEDURES, ISSUED CHECKS EVEN THOUGH THEY 09:18:37 HAD INFORMATION THAT SHOULD HAVE LED THEM TO DISQUALIFY THE 09:18:41 INDIVIDUAL. IS THAT FAIR? 09:18:43 >> YES. ANDY FACT RPTS FROM THE FOUR 09:18:45 UNIVERSITIES SAID FEMA REPRESENTATIVES TOLD THE 09:18:48 STUDENTS TO APPLY EVEN KNOWING THEY WEREN'T ELIGIBLE. 09:18:51 AND WE COULDN'T VALIDATE ALL OF THAT BUT CERTAINLY WE HAD 09:18:54 MULTIPLE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE THAT THE FEMA PEOPLE KNEW THESE 09:18:57 PEOPLE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE AND LET THEM APPLY ANY WAY AND 09:19:00 ENCOURAGED THEM TO APPLY AND SO, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE FEMA 09:19:03 SYSTEM THERE APPEARS TO BE VALID STUDENT VISAS IN THE SYSTEM, AN 09:19:07 EVEN RIGHT NEXT TO THAT IS A COPY IN THE SYSTEM OF THE FEMA 09:19:11 FLYER, SAYING, STUDENT, FOREIGN STUDENTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. 09:19:15 THEY GOT MONEY ANYWAY. >> THIS SHOWS ME THAT, IN 09:19:19 ADDITION TO HAVING BETTER INTERNAL CONTROLS, THAT ARE 09:19:23 CONSISTENTLY APPLIED, AND NOT SUSPENDED JUST BECAUSE THERE IS' 09:19:28 LARGE VOLUME OF APPLICANT, THAT WE ALSO NEED BETTER TRAINING, 09:19:35 BETTER SYSTEMS FOR ENSURING FEMA WORKERS UNDERSTAND THE 09:19:40 ELIGIBILITY RULES. WHICH WAS SENATOR LIEBERMAN'S 09:19:45 POINT AS WELL. I JUST HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION 09:19:48 FOR YOU. AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FEMA'S 09:19:53 ATTEMPTS TO RECOUP THIS MONEY. MR. RYAN, YOU MADE A VERY GOOD 09:19:58 POINT THAT FEMA IS NOT A COLLECTION AGENCY. 09:20:02 THIS ISN'T AN AREA WHERE FEMA HAS EXPERTISE AND, CLEARLY, 09:20:07 RESOURCES ARE BEING DIVERTED TO COLLECTING ON THESE CASES AND 09:20:15 FEMA REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS ITS MISSION. 09:20:18 TO ME, THE LESSON FROM THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GOOD CONTROLS 09:20:22 UP FRONT TO PREVENT THIS FRAUD IN THE FIR PLACE. 09:20:25 BUT WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL ASSESSMENT -- I LIKE TO HEAR 09:20:28 FROM BOTH OF YOU ON THIS ISSUE -- OF FEMA'S SYSTEM FOR 09:20:34 TRIGGERING RECOUPMENT, GOING AFTER OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER OR 09:20:40 FRAUDULENT PAYMENTS? MR. RYAN, WE'LL START WITH YOU. 09:20:46 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS THAT WHEN THE MONEY GETS OUT THE DOOR 09:20:50 IT'S GONE. AND YOU ARE -- YOU ARE CHASING 09:20:53 IT DONE THE STREET, TRYING TO FIND IT. 09:20:54 WE ARE WASTING ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY CHASING IT AS WHAT WE ARE 09:20:59 TRYING TO RECOVER. I CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU MY 09:21:05 OPINION BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T WORK ON THE RECOUPMENT, THE 09:21:08 PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE. BUT I CAN UNTIL THAT BASED ON 09:21:13 TESTIFYING FOUR, FIVE TIMES IN REGARDS TO FEMA, WE ARE REALLY 09:21:19 AT YOUR DIRECTION AND THE COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND SOME 09:21:22 OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES IN CONGRESS, LOOK AT WHAT REALLY 09:21:24 FRAUD IS. HOW DOES FRAUD EXIST IN THESE 09:21:27 PROGRAMS? AND IN THE PAST WE WERE TOLD IT 09:21:29 WAS 1%, 2% AND WE ARE IDENTIFYING FROM THE STATISTICAL 09:21:34 SAMPLE 16% FRAUD, IT APPEARS YOU HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB UP FRONT 09:21:41 BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE MONEY IN 09:21:43 THE BACK AND I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT AS TO THE PROCESS THAT 09:21:47 THEY ARE USING FOR RECOUPMENT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. 09:21:50 MAYBE GREG HAS, AND THE STAFF HAS. 09:21:52 I HAVE NOT. >> NO, WE HAVEN'T SYSTEMATICALLY 09:21:55 LOOKED AT IT BUT THE INTERESTING THING IS THEY'VE CHARACTERIZED 09:21:59 RECOUPMENTS OR THE $290 MILLION AS THE FRAUDULENT RATE AND YOU 09:22:03 KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND THEY TRIED TO COMPARE THAT 09:22:06 TO THE WAY WE DID A RANDOM STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE 09:22:09 POPULATION. SO IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE THEY 09:22:12 DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IS IN 09:22:14 THAT -- AND THAT WAS A BIT DISCOURAGING BUT BE AGAIN THE 09:22:17 FACT THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 09:22:20 IS NOT A BAD THING IF THEY CAN TRY TO COLLECT IT IT IS GOOD, 09:22:23 BUT IF WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN FEMA DOING DEBT COLLECTION AND 09:22:26 OTHER DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING -- AND ANOTHER 09:22:31 DISASTER HITS, THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. 09:22:33 >> I GUESS WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS, AS I 09:22:35 MENTIONED IN MY OPENING COMMENTS IS THIS IS MONEY THAT IS 09:22:39 DESPERATELY NEEDED BY THE REAL VICTIMS TO REBUILD DEVASTATED 09:22:46 COMMUNITIES AND TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES. 09:22:49 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO 09:22:53 THEIR GENEROSITY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF 09:22:57 MONEY ARE BEING LOST TO WASTE, FRAUD AN ABUSE. 09:23:00 AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. 09:23:04 IT IS PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE IN 2004 THIS 09:23:11 COMMITTEE HELD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS LOOKING AT WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:16 AN ABUSE IN THE WAKE OF THE FLORIDA HURRICANES AND WE 09:23:20 IDENTIFIED SOME OF THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE 09:23:26 TESTIFIED ABOUT TODAY. AT THAT TIME, I REMEMBER TELLING 09:23:32 MICHAEL BROWN THAT HE HAD TO ENSURE THAT CONTROLS WERE IN 09:23:37 PLACE BEFORE THE NEXT MAJOR DISASTER HIT. 09:23:41 REGRETTABLY, HE DID NOT DO SO. AND WHEN A DISASTER OF THE 09:23:47 MAGNITUDE OF KATRINA HIT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WASTE, FRAUD 09:23:53 AND ABUSE WAS THAT MUCH GREATER. WE CAN'T WAIT FOR YET ANOTHER 09:23:58 DISASTER TO HIT AND FOR YET ANOTHER ROUND OF INVESTIGATIONS 09:24:03 AN HEARINGS TO SPOTLIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, THE LACK OF BASIC 09:24:12 SAFEGUARD AND INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ANY AGENCY THAT IS 09:24:16 PROVIDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD HAVE AS A MATTER OF 09:24:20 COURSE. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. 09:24:25 IT ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE IT REQUIRES TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT 09:24:28 YET BEEN DEVELOPED. IT IS BASIC VERIFICATION OF 09:24:33 ELIGIBILITY, IDENTITY, ADDRESS, AND DAMAGE. 09:24:39 AND I, FOR ONE, AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FEMA AND THE 09:24:45 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE THOSE 09:24:49 SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE FEMA REFORM LEGISLATION THAT 09:24:53 THIS COMMITTEE ADVANCED AND WHICH WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AS 09:24:56 PART OF THE APPROPRIATIONS BILL REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT OF 09:25:02 THOSE STANDARDS. IT IS NOT SOMETHING, FRAERK, 09:25:04 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT IN LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS 09:25:08 GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS BASIC MANAGEMENT. 09:25:11 BUT, I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH US TO 09:25:15 PROBE AND TEST THE SYSTEM TO ENSURE THAT TRUE PROGRESS HAS 09:25:20 BEEN MADE. WE HAVE ASKED THE -- DHS TO 09:25:25 RESPOND TO YOUR TESTIMONY AND TO THESE LATEST FINDINGS AN 09:25:31 RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON THEIR 09:25:34 RESPONSE. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING 09:25:41 THEIR RESPONSE TO THESE VERY TROUBLING FINDINGS. 09:25:43 WE ALL KNOW LESSONS CAN BE LEARNED AND APPLIED IN THE WAKE 09:25:46 OF A DISASTER. AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS 09:25:53 BEING MADE IN OTHER PARTS OF FEMA AND I REALIZE THERE IS A 09:25:57 LOT OF PROGRESS THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE 09:26:00 NOT GOING TO BE WILLING TO KEEP WRITING CHECKS FOR DISASTER 09:26:06 RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE UNLESS THEY ARE ASSURED THAT THE MONEY 09:26:10 IS BEING WISELY SPENT TO BENEFIT THE TRUE VICTIMS AND YOUR WORK 09:26:17 IS VITALLY IMPORTANT IN HELPING US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 09:26:21 I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THE 09:26:25 COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN A GREAT PLEASURE TO 09:26:28 WORK WITH YOU. I AM CERTAIN THAT THIS 09:26:31 COMMITTEE'S FIGHT AGAINST WASTEFUL SPENDING WILL CONTINUE 09:26:34 AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FURTHER. 09:26:38 I ALSO WANT TO THANK MY STAFF FOR THEIR DILIGENT WORK ON THIS 09:26:43 HEARING, AND INDEED, ON ALL OF THE KATRINA INVESTIGATION. 09:26:48 IT WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION EVER UNDERTAKEN BY 09:26:53 THIS COMMITTEE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS OUR 25th 09:26:58 KATRINA HEARING AND I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT. 09:27:02 WE HAVE ISSUED A MAJOR REPORT. WE HAVE ENACTED LEGISLATION BUT 09:27:07 ITS CLEAR THAT CONTINUED OVERSIGHT WILL BE NECESSARY. 09:27:10 SO I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR GOOD WORK AS WELL. 09:27:13 THE HEARING RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR 15 DAYS TO RECEIVE 09:27:19 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, OTHER MATERIALS, AND I HOPE DHS'S 09:27:24 WRITTEN FORMAL RESPONSE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GOOD 09:27:27 WORK. THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED. 09:27:37 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:28:20 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 09:29:55 >> NEXT ON C-SPAN2 COVERAGE OF THE U.S. SENATE, TODAY'S AGENDA 09:29:59 INCLUDES DEBATE ON THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:30:02 EICHENBACH TO BE COMMISSIONER OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:30:05 AND VOTES ARE EXPECTED TODAY AND LATER TODAY, 2:30 EASTERN, VICE 09:30:08 PRESIDENT CHENEY WILL ACCOMPANY MAJORITY LEADER BILL FRIST TO 09:30:12 THE FLOOR FOR HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS AND LIVE COVERAGE NOW ON 09:30:16 C-SPAN2. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:30:21 SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. THE SENATE WILL BE LED IN PRAYER 09:30:23 BY THE CHAPLAIN OF THE SENATE, DR. BARRY BLACK. 09:30:32 THE CHAPLAIN: LET US PRAY. ETERNAL LORD GOD, OUR STRONG 09:30:40 HOLD IN TIMES OF TROUBLE. BLESS TODAY OUR SENATORS. 09:30:44 LORD, 65 YEARS AGO AMERICA EXPERIENCED A DAY OF INFAMY. 09:30:52 AS WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR, OUR HEARTS TURN TOWARD THE MEN AND 09:30:58 WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES AND THEIR FAMILIES. 09:31:06 THANK YOU FOR THEIR INVESTMENT IN FREEDOM AND THEIR SACRIFICES 09:31:11 FOR OUR LIBERTIES. COMFORT THOSE WHO MOURN AND 09:31:18 THOSE WHO BEAR THE SCARS OF BATTLE. 09:31:23 BE A COMPANION TO THOSE WHO MUST STARE AT AN EMPTY CHAIR DURING 09:31:30 THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. DEFEND THOSE IN HARM'S WAY WITH 09:31:37 YOUR HEAVENLY GRACE AND GIVE THEM COURAGE TO FACE PERILS WITH 09:31:44 TRUST INOU. GIVE THEM A SENSE OF YOUR 09:31:50 ABIDING PRESENCE WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. 09:31:56 WE PRAY IN YOUR SOVEREIGN NAME. AMEN. 09:32:06 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: PLEASE JOIN ME IN RECITING THE 09:32:08 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. 09:32:12 I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF 09:32:15 AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION 09:32:17 UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 09:32:29 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE LEADERSHIP TIME IS RESERVED. 09:32:33 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE SENATE WILL PROCEED TO EXECUTIVE 09:32:35 SESSION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE NOMINATION OF ANDREW VON 09:32:38 ESCHENBACH WHICH THE CLERK WILL REPORT. 09:32:40 THE CLERK: NOMINATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 09:32:45 SERVICES. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH OF TEXAS 09:32:46 TO BE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:32:48 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER IS RECOGNIZED. 09:32:53 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, THIS MORNING THE SENATE WILL VOTE ON 09:32:55 THE MOTION TO INVOKE CLOTURE ON THE NOMINATION OF THE F.D.A. 09:33:01 COMMISSIONER, ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH. 09:33:02 SENATORS CAN EXPECT TO HAVE THIS VOTE AROUND 10:30 TO 10:45 THIS 09:33:08 MORNING FOLLOWING THE ONE HOUR OF DEBATE. 09:33:10 AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY MORNING, THIS IS A VERY 09:33:13 IMPORTANT POSITION AND TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMATION FINALLY BEING 09:33:16 ACCOMPLISHED WILL BE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT FOR TS CONGRESS. 09:33:19 ONCE CLOTURE HAS BEEN INVOKED WE WILL TRY TO SCHEDULE A VOTE ON 09:33:22 THE CONFIRMATION EARLY IN THE IN 09:33:26 THE DAY. THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ITEMS 09:33:28 THE SENATE MUST ACT ON BEFORE WE ADJOURN SINE DIE. 09:33:32 THEREFORE, SENATORS MUST ADJUST THEIR PLANS TO BE HERE AND 09:33:35 VOTING OVER THE COMING DAYSI WILL I APPRECIATE SENATORS' 09:33:41 WILLINGNESS TO WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF LEGISLATIVE AND 09:33:44 EXECUTIVE MATTERS. MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT? 09:33:46 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MINORITY LEADER. 09:33:48 MR. REID: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. 09:33:52 ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, WE'VE CLEARED ON THIS SIDE. 09:33:54 SO AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, THERE IS NO NEED FOR A CLOTURE 09:33:57 VOTE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH 09:33:59 THE DISTINGUISHED MAJORITY LEADER TODAY AND MAYBE TOMORROW 09:34:03 AND MAYBE SATURDAY TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH COOPERATION OUT OF 09:34:08 SENATORS AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT THE FINANCE FOLKS 09:34:10 HAVE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S 09:34:13 VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT 09:34:16 AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA FORWARD. 09:34:22 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE MAJORITY LEADER. 09:34:24 MR. FRIST: MR. PRESIDENT, I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. 09:34:25 I WANT TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER MATTER. 09:34:27 I KNOW WE WANT TO GET TO THE HOUR OF PRE-VOTE TIME HERE 09:34:35 SHORTLY. BUT I DID WANT TO -- AND I'LL 09:34:37 ENTER MY REMARKS IN THE RECORD, MY FORMAL REMARKS. 09:34:41 BUT TOMORROW DOES, HOPEFULLY TOMORROW WILL OFFICIALLY END THE 09:34:46 109th CONGRESS AT THE END OF THE DAY TOMORROW, IF WE DO OUR 09:34:50 WORK TODAY SUCCESSFULLY, AND TONIGHT THE SENATE WILL BE ABLE 09:34:56 TO ADJOURN. THAT WILL ALSO MARK THE OFFICIAL 09:34:59 CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND A CHANGE IN THE SENATE AGENDA. 09:35:03 I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MANY OF OUR MY CONSERVATIVE 09:35:08 ALLIES WITH A BIT OF TREPIDATION. 09:35:10 BUT CHANGE IS GOOD. CHANGE IS CONSTRUCTIVE. 09:35:16 IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, MESSY. BUT CHANGE FORCES US ALL TO 09:35:21 REEXAMINE WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE WANT TO GO, 09:35:24 WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT WE BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT IS OUR 09:35:26 RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT TRADITIONAL COMMON-SENSE 09:35:29 AMERICAN VALUES. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE GIVE THE 09:35:32 AMERICAN PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO INVEST THEIR MONEY AS THEY 09:35:35 CHOOSE, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO FLOURISH, IT IS GOING TO HAVE 09:35:39 MORE FREEDOM TO GROW. AT THE END OF THE DAY I BELIEVE 09:35:41 THAT GOOD LEADERS DON'T TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES. 09:35:43 THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT GOOD LEADERS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE. 09:35:47 AND THEY ACT, AND THEY ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. 09:35:50 EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE 100% 09:35:54 SUCCESSFUL EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A BILL TO THE FLOOR. 09:35:56 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AT LEAST I'VE TRIED TO DO, 09:36:02 IS NOT SAY LET'S JUST TAKE TO THE FLOOR WHAT WILL NECESSARILY 09:36:05 PASS, BUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ON PRINCIPLE. 09:36:09 WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR US TO BE CONSIDERING. 09:36:12 DURING MY TENURE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED 09:36:15 TO DO. THAT IS LEAD ON PRINCIPLE AND TO 09:36:20 ACT WITH SOLUTIONS. IT DOES COME WITH THAT SURGICAL 09:36:23 APPROACH OF FIXING THINGS, OF OPERATING, OF ACTION. 09:36:26 A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES IN TERMS OF LEADING ON PRINCIPLE, THE 09:36:31 INTERNATIONAL GAMBLING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT, THE 09:36:35 ADAM WALSH CHILD PROTECTION AND SAFETY ACT LEGISLATION, 09:36:41 PROTECTING THE MOUNT SOLEDAD CROSS. 09:36:46 AND PERHAPS MOST NOTABLY WE CONFIRMED TWO SUPREME COURT 09:36:49 JUSTICES, 18 CIRCUIT COURT NOMINEES, 80 DISTRICT COURT 09:36:55 JUDGES. AMERICA NEEDS JUDGES WHO ARE 09:36:56 BALANCED, WHO ARE FAIR, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT, WHO ARE UNBIASED, 09:37:00 WHO ARE COMMITTED TO EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. 09:37:02 AND WE MAKE SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA HAS GOTTEN. 09:37:05 OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS, WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS CHANGED 09:37:08 OUR ECONOMY. IT HAS CHANGED OUR COUNTRY AND 09:37:11 CHANGED OUR WAY OF LIFE FOR THE BETTER. 09:37:14 OUR RECORD OF SUCCESS COMBINED WITH THE LESSONS THAT WE ALL 09:37:18 LEARNED IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS ENSURES THAT OUR PARTY WILL 09:37:22 REDEDICATE ITSELF TO SERVING THE INTEREST OF AMERICA BOTH HERE AT 09:37:27 HOME AS WELL AS AROUND THE WORLD. 09:37:30 THAT VISION WHICH IS OPTIMISTIC, WHICH IS FORWARD-LOOKING, WHICH 09:37:34 IS HOPEFUL, IS GROUNDED IN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF COMMON-SENSE 09:37:38 CONSERVATIVE VALUES BEST FOUND ON MAIN STREET AND IN FAMILIES 09:37:42 THAT WE HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERACTING WITH ALL ACROSS THIS 09:37:45 COUNTRY. MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A FORMAL 09:37:49 STATEMENT THAT I WOULD AT THIS POINT LIKE TO HAVE ENTERED BY 09:37:54 UNANIMOUS CONSENT INTO THE RECORD AS IF READ. 09:37:55 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. 09:37:58 UNDER THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THERE WILL BE 60 MINUTES FOR DEBATE 09:38:00 PRIOR TO CLOTURE VOTE WITH THE TIME DIVIDED AS FOLLOWS: THE 09:38:04 SENATOR FROM WYOMING, MR. ENZI OR HIS DESIGNEE, 30 MINUTES. 09:38:10 THE SENATOR FROM IOWA, MR. GRASSLEY, 20 MINUTES. 09:38:13 THE SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA, MR. VITTER, 10 MINUTES. 09:38:16 WHO YIELDS TIME WHO YIELDS TIME? THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING. 09:38:28 MR. ENZI: MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. 09:38:30 I RISE TO DISCUSS THE PENDING NOMINATION OF DR. ANDREW VON 09:38:34 ESCHENBACH TO BE THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. 09:38:36 THE F.D.A. HAS A VERY BROAD AND CRITICAL MISSION IN PROTECTING 09:38:39 OUR PUBLIC HEALTH. THE COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:38:42 DRUGS IS IN CHARGE OF AN AGENCY THAT REGULATES $1 TRILLION WORTH 09:38:49 OF PRODUCTS A YEAR. THE F.D.A. ENSURES THE SAFETY 09:38:52 AND EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS 09:38:58 VACCINES, MEDICAL DEVICES AND ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. 09:39:01 LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. THE SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF 09:39:05 ALL DRUGS, BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, MEDICAL 09:39:10 DEVICES, ANIMAL DRUGS AND FEED. IT ALSO OVERSEES THE SAFETY OF A 09:39:16 VAST VARIETY OF FOOD PRODUCTS AS WELL AS MEDICAL AND CONSUMER 09:39:20 PRODUCTS, INCLUDING COSMETICS. AS COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND 09:39:25 DRUGS, DR. VON ESCHENBACH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVANCING THE 09:39:29 PUBLIC HEALTH BY HELPING TO SPEED INNOVATIONS IN ITS MISSION 09:39:32 AREAS AND BY HELPING THE PUBLIC GET ACCURATE, SCIENCE-BASED 09:39:35 INFORMATION ON MEDICINES AND FOODS. 09:39:38 DR. VON ESCHENBACH HAS A STRONG RECORD. 09:39:39 HE'S AN ACCOMPLISHED SCIENTIST, A PROVEN MANAGER AND A MAN WITH 09:39:44 A VISION. HE'S ALSO A CANCER SURVIVOR AND 09:39:47 HE'S BROUGHT THAT PER -- PERSPECTIVE AND THE PASSION THAT 09:39:53 GOES WITH IT TO HIS GOVERNMENT SERVICES. 09:39:56 HE GAVE UP A JOB HE LOVED, DIRECTING THE NATIONAL CANCER 09:40:00 INSTITUTE, TO OFFER HIS SERVICE, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A MUCH MORE 09:40:03 CHALLENGING AND DEFINITELY THANKLESS JOB OF LEADING THE 09:40:06 F.D.A. THE F.D.A. HAS BEEN WITHOUT A 09:40:09 CONFIRMED COMMISSIONER FOR ALL BUT 18 MONTHS OF THE LAST FIVE 09:40:13 AND A HALF YEARS. EVER SEE A BUSINESS THAT COULD 09:40:16 RUN FOR FIVE AND A HALF YEARS WITHOUT HAVING A BOSS EXCEPT FOR 09:40:20 18 MONTHS? AND THAT WAS A TENUOUS 18 09:40:24 MONTHS. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE 09:40:26 NEED A STRONG LEADER AT THE F.D.A. NOW AND ONE WHO HAS A 09:40:30 MANDATE TO ACT. HE NEEDS FULL AUTHORITY TO BRING 09:40:32 BACK THE MORALE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND TO GET THE JOB 09:40:36 DONE. WE MUST BE FORWARD-LOOKING. 09:40:39 THERE ARE MANY ITEMS BEFORE THE F.D.A. THAT REQUIRE THE 09:40:42 IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF THE F.D.A. COMMISSIONER VESTED WITH 09:40:49 FULL AUTHORITY. BUT THAT AUTHORITY FLOWS 09:40:51 DIRECTLY FROM THE ACT OF SENATE CONFIRMATION. 09:40:53 WITHOUT A SENATE-CONFIRMED LEADER, WE CAN'T EXPECT THE 09:40:56 F.D.A. TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED IT TO BE. 09:40:59 I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER THIS. 09:41:01 I KNOW THAT SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ON AND OFF THE 09:41:03 COMMITTEE ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THEIR 09:41:06 INTERACTIONS WITH THE F.D.A. DURING DR. VON ESCHENBACH'S 09:41:11 TENURE. SOME WOULD URGE THAT THE F.D.A. 09:41:12 MOVE QUICKLY ON CERTAIN MATTERS BEFORE IT. 09:41:14 HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HOLDING UP A NOMINATION OVER 09:41:17 SINGLE PRODUCTS OR SINGLE ISSUES IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ACHIEVE 09:41:20 FASTER ACTION. AND TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY 09:41:22 PROCESSES ARE FREE FROM THE PRESSURE OF POLITICS. 09:41:25 IN FACT, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITE WOULD OCCUR. 09:41:28 I THINK THIS IS A POSITION THAT HAS MORE CATCH-22'S THAN ANY 09:41:32 OTHER POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. I DO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF MY 09:41:36 COLLEAGUES TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR THIS 09:41:38 POSITION OR THE POLICIES THAT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE MIGHT 09:41:42 PURSUE. IF OUR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE 09:41:44 PRESIDENT'S CHOICE ARE SO STRONG, WE OUGHT TO VOTE AGAINST 09:41:48 THE NOMINEE. BUT IN LIGHT OF THE $1 TRILLION 09:41:52 WORTH OF DRUGS AND PRODUCTS OVERSEEN BY THE F.D.A. AND 09:41:55 HUNDREDS OF DRUG APPROVALS REVIEWED EVERY YEAR, I THINK WE 09:41:58 WOULD BE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IF ANY OF US HOLD UP 09:42:03 THE PRESIDENT'S CHOICE FOR F.D.A. COMMISSIONER OVER 09:42:07 DECISIONS MADE SROFPG ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ISSUE OR 09:42:11 SOMETHING EXTRANEOUS EVEN TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. 09:42:15 IT WOULD BE AN ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AT THIS 09:42:17 POINT. WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATE WITH 09:42:19 RESPECT TO THE F.D.A. DURING THE 110th CONGRESS. 09:42:22 WE HAVE TO REAUTHORIZE BOTH THE DRUG AND DEVICE USER FEE 09:42:26 PROGRAMS, ADDRESSING TWO EXPIRING PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS AND 09:42:30 IMPROVE OUR DRUG SAFETY SYSTEM. THE F.D.A. NEEDS A LEADER WITH 09:42:32 THE BACKING AND THE MANDATE THAT SENATE CONFIRMATION PROVIDES IN 09:42:36 ORDER TO BE OUR PARTNER IN THESE EFFORTS. 09:42:40 DR. VON ESCHENBACH RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THE 09:42:42 "HELP" COMMITTEE. THIS MAN COULD SERVE PATIENTS IN 09:42:45 MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAS OFFERED TO SERVE THEM BY RUNNING 09:42:48 THIS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AGENCY. 09:42:51 I'M TALKING ABOUT A DOCTOR WITH CANCER EXPERTISE, MANAGEMENT 09:42:57 EXPERTISE, VISION WHO HAS AGREED -- WHO HAS AGREED -- TO RUN THIS 09:43:00 AGENCY AT WHAT WE PAY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE BACK TO HIS 09:43:04 COUNTRY. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT 09:43:06 ON OUR COMMITTEE TO GIVE DR. VON ESCHENBACH A CHANCE TO 09:43:09 EFFECTIVELY RUN THE F.D.A. WITH FULL STATUTORY AUTHORITY. 09:43:12 SO I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE, 09:43:17 DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH AND TO VOTE TO CONFIRM HIM AS THE NEXT 09:43:20 COMMISSIONER OF FOOD AND DRUGS. VOTING "YES" ON THIS CLOTURE 09:43:24 VOTE WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN MOVING TOWARDS A PERMANENT HEAD 09:43:27 TO OVERSEE THE SAFETY OF OUR NATION'S FOOD AND DRUG SYSTEM. 09:43:30 I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR. THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE 09:43:33 SENATOR RESERVES THE BALANCE OF HIS TIME? 09:43:35 MR. ENZI: I WOULD RESERVE THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. 09:43:38 THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE: THE SENATOR FROM A EU A EUFPLT. 09:43:40 MR. GRASSLEY: YES. MY OPPOSITION TO CLOTURE MOTION 09:43:46 IS AS MUCH ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL OUR 09:43:50 RESPONSIBILITIES OVER THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:43:52 AS IT IS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR QUALIFICATIONS OF THE NOMINEE. 09:43:55 I INTEND TO VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE. 09:43:58 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LISTENING, PARTICULARLY 09:44:00 THOSE DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO ARE BELLY ACHING 09:44:05 BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF 09:44:08 REPUBLICANS TOWARDS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT 09:44:11 WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS NOMINEE HAS SOMETHING 09:44:16 TO DO WITH, AND IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE LACK OF 09:44:21 COOPERATION ON THE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO COOPERATE 09:44:25 WITH CONGRESS ON THE ISSUE OF CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT. 09:44:29 I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THIS CLOTURE VOTE MEANS 09:44:32 THEN TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOW AND 09:44:36 IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO PLACED A 09:44:44 HOLD ON THIS NOMINEE, AND THIS WAS NOT A SECRET HOLD. 09:44:48 I MADE THIS HOLD PUBLIC. I'M VOTING AGAINST CLOTURE AND 09:44:52 ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED TO 09:44:54 SEND A MESSAGE TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT IT'S NOT OKAY TO 09:45:00 IMPEDE CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS. 09:45:01 IT'S NOT OKAY TO LIMIT THE SENATE'S ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS, 09:45:07 INFORMATION, AND EMPLOYEES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. 09:45:11 IN HIS BOOK ON CONGRESSIONAL GOVERNMENT WOODROW WILSON, 09:45:16 BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHEN HE WAS A PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON, 09:45:19 WROTE IN 1885, "QUITE AS IMPORTANT AS LAW-MAKING IS 09:45:28 VIGILANT OVERSIGHT OF THE ADMINISTRATION." 09:45:31 OUR WORK AS LAWMAKERS DOES NOT END WITH THE PASSAGE OF A BILL. 09:45:36 THIS BODY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE 09:45:40 SURE THAT LAWS WORK AND THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED EFFECTIVELY, 09:45:45 EFFICIENTLY, ECONOMICALLY. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVES 09:45:51 VERY IMPORTANT GOALS AND WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT. 09:45:54 THEY INCLUDE REVIEWING ACTIONS TAKEN AND REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY 09:45:58 THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENCIES ARE 09:46:03 EXECUTING LAW ACCORDING TO INTENT OF CONGRESS. 09:46:07 SECOND, ENSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT 09:46:08 WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. OVERSIGHT WORK ALLOWS US TO 09:46:14 EVALUATE THE ABILITY OF AGENCIES AND MANAGERS TO CARRY OUT 09:46:19 PROGRAM OBJTIVES AND IMPROVE THE EFFICIENCY, EFFECTIVENESS 09:46:24 AND ECONOMY OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. 09:46:28 NEXT, ENSURING THAT EXECUTIVE POLICIES REFLECT THE PUBLIC 09:46:33 INTEREST. THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS 09:46:37 EXPRESSED IN LAWS OF CONGRESS. AND LASTLY, PROTECTING THE 09:46:40 RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 09:46:42 WOODROW WILSON ALSO SAID IN HIS BOOK -- QUOTE -- "IT IS THE 09:46:45 PROPER DUTY OF A REPRESENTATIVE BODY TO LOOK DILIGENTLY INTO 09:46:50 EVERY AFFAIR OF GOVERNMENT AND TO TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT SEES. 09:46:55 IT IS MEANT TO BE THE EYES, THE VOICE, AND EMBODY THE WISDOM AND 09:46:59 THE WILL OF ITS CONSTITUENTS." IN AMERICA, WITH OUR GOVERNMENT, 09:47:05 THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OUGHT TO BE PUBLIC. 09:47:07 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE COVERUPS AND THE LACK OFNFORMATION GOING TO 09:47:12 CONGRESS, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS -- 09:47:18 AND WE GET A PAGE BACK FROM THE AGENCY WITH 57 PAGES REMOVED. 09:47:22 NOW, WHAT'S IN THOSE 57 PAGES THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE ACCESS TO? 09:47:27 AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LACK OF INFORMATION AND LACK OF 09:47:33 COOPERATION FROM THIS AGENCY. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, CONGRESS HAS 09:47:38 ENGAGED IN OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE RIGHT TO 09:47:44 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS BEEN ASSERTED FROM EARLIEST DAYS OF 09:47:46 OUR REPUBLIC. 1792 HOUSE INVOKED ITS AUTHORITY 09:47:54 TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN IT APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO 09:47:56 INVESTIGATE THE DEFEAT OF GENERAL SAINT CLAIRE AND HIS 09:47:58 ARMY BY INDIANS IN THE NORTHWEST AND EMPOWERED -- QUOTE -- "CALL 09:48:03 FOR SUCH PERSONS, PAPERS AND RECORDS AS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR 09:48:08 THAT INQUIRY." IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS 09:48:13 CONGRESS EXPENSIVE -- EXTENSIVE AUTHORITY TO OVERSEE AND 09:48:17 INVESTIGATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACTIVITIES. 09:48:21 CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED EXPLICITLY IN THE 09:48:24 PASSAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE REORGANIZATION ACT OF 1946, 09:48:29 WHICH REQUIRED THE STANDING COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS TO 09:48:32 EXERCISE -- QUOTE -- "CONTINUOUS WATCHFULNESS" OVER PROGRAMS AND 09:48:38 AGENCIES IN THEIR JURISDICTION. NUMEROUS SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 09:48:43 WILL SUPPORT ALL THE PRECEDENCE FOR CONGRESS TO SEE ALL ASPECTS 09:48:47 OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN 1927, McBRAIN Vs. 09:48:53 DOEHERTY. THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD 09:48:55 CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT TEAPOT DOME 09:49:01 SCANDAL. JUSTICE VANDERVANNER WRITING FOR 09:49:03 THE UNANIMOUS COURT -- QUOTE -- "WE ARE 09:49:05 OF THE OPINION THAT THE POWER OF INQUIRY WITH THE 09:49:10 PROCESS TO ENFORCE IT IS AN ESSENTIAL AND APPROPRIATE 09:49:14 AUXILIARY TO THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION." 09:49:17 TO DO OVERSIGHT, CONGRESS NEEDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND PEOPLE 09:49:20 IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID -- THAT IS WHAT I 09:49:25 DID NOT AND STILL AM NOT GETTING FROM THE F.D.A. UNDER THE 09:49:30 LEADERSHIP OF DR. VON ESCHENBACH, AS AN EXAMPLE. 09:49:34 47 PAGES REMOVED. ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 09:49:40 43 PAGES REMOVED. NOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO 09:49:42 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT FROM THE FOOD 09:49:47 AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION? SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE 09:49:51 STATEMENT MADE IN SUPPORT OF THE CLOTURE MOTION. 09:49:55 PEOPLE OUGHT TO BESHAMED OF SAYING DR. ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH 09:50:00 HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB IN THE POSITION HE IS CURRENTLY 09:50:05 OCCUPYING. WITH AN ANSWER LIKE THAT TO THE 09:50:06 CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S AN INSULT. 09:50:10 BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN FAVOR OF CLOTURE, CONSIDER 09:50:15 WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER 09:50:18 SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO DURING THE CAMPAIGN, IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL 09:50:22 AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL AFTER CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL SAID 09:50:26 CONGRESS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB OF OVERSIGHT, IMPLYING THAT 09:50:29 REPUBLICANS WERE COVERING UP WRONGDOING BY THE 09:50:36 ADMINISTRATION. IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR 09:50:39 ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO DO THE OVERSIGHT THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE 09:50:42 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU GET ANSWERS 09:50:45 LIKE THAT BACK, YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB 09:50:50 OF OVERSIGHT THAT YOU'RE DOING. MY INTERACTIONS WITH THE 09:50:57 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE F.D.A. THESE 09:50:59 LAST EIGHT MONTHS, I'VE SEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISRESPECT 09:51:04 FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND, HENCE, THE LAW. 09:51:08 THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS 09:51:10 REPEATEDLY FAILED TO ACT IN GOOD FAITH IN RESPONDING TO 09:51:14 CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND THE LACK OF 43 PAGES IS JUST 09:51:19 ONE EXAMPLE. THIS DIRECTOR'S LEADERSHIP UNDER 09:51:29 IT AT THE F.D.A. HAS FAILED TO FULLY COMPLY WITH TWO 09:51:32 CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOAS THAT WERE ISSUED SEVEN MONTHS AGO. 09:51:37 EFFORTS TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGENCY'S CONCERNS FALL ON DEAF 09:51:39 EARS AND I WONDER IF I'M DEALING WITH DYSFUNCTION BY DESIGN. 09:51:45 NOT ONLY HAS THE F.D.A. WITHHELD DOCUMENTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO 09:51:49 BE PRIVILEGED, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WHAT HAS BEEN WITHHELD AND WHY. 09:51:55 THE SUBPOENA COMPEL A PRIVILEGED LAW BUT THE F.D.A. HAS NOT 09:51:59 PROVIDED US WITH THAT PRIVILEGED LOG. 09:52:04 SO FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY NEXT YEAR DOING THE OVERSIGHT 09:52:10 THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS 09:52:16 WEREN'T DOING IT, THEN LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 09:52:18 ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN YOU GET 09:52:22 ANSWERS LIKE THAT? ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO 09:52:24 CONDUCT OVERSIGHT WHEN FOR SEVEN MONTHS YOU DON'T GET YOUR 09:52:27 SUBPOENAS RESPONDED TO? SO WHAT IS THE AGENCY'S 09:52:33 EXPLANATION? THE F.D.A. HAS THAT SAID SO MANY 09:52:35 DOCUMENTS HAVE WITHHELD THAT IT IS UNDULY BURDENSOME TO PROVIDE 09:52:40 A PRIVILEGED LAW. EVEN IN THE F.D.A. GENERAL 09:52:46 COUNSEL AS RECENTLY AS TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK COULD NOT SEE WHY 09:52:49 THE AGENCY NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND THE TERMS OF THE 09:52:54 SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE COMMITTEE. 09:52:56 IN DENYING THE COMMITTEE ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS RESPONSIVE TO 09:53:00 THE SUBPOENA, THE DEPARTMENT AND THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION 09:53:05 HAVE CLAIMED -- QUOTE -- "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:11 PROCESS" OR "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS" OR "AGENCY 09:53:14 PREROGATIVE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL BE INTERVIEWED AND TESTIFY 09:53:21 BEFORE A JURISDICTIONAL COMMITTEE." 09:53:23 NOW, WHEN YOU GET ANSWERS LIKE THAT, YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 09:53:26 THE AISLE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MAJORITY, WHAT ARE YOU 09:53:29 GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP YOUR 09:53:31 COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU WON THE 09:53:34 MAJORITY, AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OVERSIGHT WHEN 09:53:36 YOU GET RATIONALES LIKE "PROSECUTORIAL DELIBERATIVE 09:53:41 PROCESS" "CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION," "AGENCY 09:53:46 PREROGATIVE?" I COULD NOT TALK TO A LINE AGENT 09:53:49 NAMED "WES" BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENTS, WHEN THREE 09:53:54 MONTHS BEFORE I TALKED TO LINE AGENTS. 09:53:57 BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THERE FROM 09:53:59 THE JUDICIARY -- FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHEN SENATOR 09:54:03 KENNEDY SAID, I WANT ACCESS TO LINE AGENTS, UNRELATED TO WHAT 09:54:07 I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, BECAUSE LINE AGENT WES THAT I WANTED TO 09:54:11 TALK TO, I WAS TOLD I COULDN'T TALK TO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TALK 09:54:15 TO LINE AGENTS. THE OFFICIAL AT THE JUSTICE 09:54:17 DEPARTMENT SAID TO SENATOR KENNEDY, YOU CAN TALK TO LINE 09:54:20 AGENTS, WE'LL GET THEM FOR YOU. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT 09:54:25 EVER HAPPENED OR NOT BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER HE GOT. 09:54:27 SO WHEN I GOT AROUND TO DOING MY QUESTIONING OF THAT JUSTICE 09:54:31 DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, I SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MY ABILITY TO 09:54:34 TALK TO LINE AGENT WES? WELL, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE I WAS 09:54:37 GOING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO LINE AGENT WES. 09:54:39 BUT YET THIS VERY DAY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS ADVISING 09:54:45 THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR THAT WE CAN'T TALK TO LINE AGENT 09:54:49 WES, WHICH IS KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS 09:54:53 ARE ALLOWING DANGEROUS DRUGS ON THE MARKET. 09:54:58 AND IN CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT LOST AN 09:55:02 18-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE OF A DRUG THAT WAS ON THE MARKET -- NOT ON 09:55:07 THE MARKET NOW. THAT WAS ON THE MARKET THEN. 09:55:11 IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF 09:55:13 DRUGS, THIS INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. 09:55:17 AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT COVERED UP IN THE F.D.A., THAT 09:55:23 YOU AREN'T PROTECTING THE PUBLIC. 09:55:25 AND IF CONGRESSMEN KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB OF 09:55:28 OVERSIGHT. THIS PAST SUMMER, I ASKED THE 09:55:35 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO LOOK INTO THE DEPARTMENT'S 09:55:38 POLICIES REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND C.R.S. TOLD ME THAT THERE IS 09:55:42 -- QUOTE -- "NO LEGAL BASIS" FOR THE DEPARTMENT'S EXECUTIVE 09:55:47 BRANCH ASSERTIONS. THE LEGAL ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY 09:55:51 C.R.S. SUPPORTS THE COMMITTEE'S POSITION THAT THESE EXECUTIVE 09:55:54 AGENCY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY REJECTED AND 09:55:58 COMPLIANCE WITH CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS IN THE PAST HAS BEEN 09:56:02 FORTHCOMING. C.R.S. CITES NUMEROUS COURT 09:56:05 CASES WHICH ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT CONGRESS'S POWER TO 09:56:08 ENGAGE IN OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITIES AND ITS 09:56:13 ACCESS TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH PERSONNEL AND DOCUMENTS IN 09:56:16 CARRYING OUT OUR POWERS OF OVERSIGHT. 09:56:18 THE DEPARTMENT, H.H.S., F.D.A., WITHIN H.H.S. SAYS IT HAS BEEN 09:56:26 RESPONSIVE BECAUSE THE AGENCY MADE AVAILABLE HUNDREDS OF 09:56:29 THOUSANDS, EVEN MILLIONS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS TO THE 09:56:32 FINANCE COMMITTEE IN RESPONSE TO SUBPOENAS. 09:56:34 BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME -- BUT THE AGENCY CAN GIVE ME ALL 09:56:38 THE BOOKS AND ALL THE DOCUMENTS HOUSED AT THE LIBRARY OF 09:56:40 CONGRESS AND IT WON'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR AND 09:56:45 THE PAGES ARE REMOVED. IT IS THIS TYPE OF COOPERATION 09:56:50 THAT I'M GETTING UNDER THIS DIRECTOR THAT YOU'RE NOW GOING 09:56:52 TO CONFIRM. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE 09:56:59 COOPERATION, IF ANY, THAT WE HAVE ONCE HE BECOMES A PERMANENT 09:57:04 COMMISSIONER. AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS 09:57:05 SHOULD BE EQUALLY CONCERNED IF THEY TAKE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL 09:57:08 DUTY OF CONDUCTING OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SERIOUSLY 09:57:13 AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO THE NEW MAJORITY. 09:57:16 WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO MAKE 09:57:19 SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER OVERSIGHT, CHECKS AND BALANCES 09:57:23 AGAINST AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT YOU THINK'S EXCEEDING 09:57:26 AUTHORITY. IF THIS IS THE TYPE, EVERY 09:57:40 MEMBER SHOULD BE CONCERNED. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH, 09:57:45 BUT A VOTE FOR CLOTURE TODAY IS A VOTE AGAINST OVERSIGHT AND 09:57:49 THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SENATE SHOULD BE DOING AND IT IS NOT 09:57:52 WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT US HERE TO DO. 09:57:56 WE NEED TO STEP UP CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT OUR 09:58:00 NATION'S SYSTEMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND NOT REWARD THOSE 09:58:04 WHO SEEK TO IMPEDE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY. 09:58:08 THIS BODY SHOULD NOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE EXECUTIVE 09:58:12 BRANCH AND SIT IDLY BY AS INSTANCES OF WASTE, FRAUD AND 09:58:18 ABUSE CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE 09:58:21 AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS SENATE NEEDS TO MAKE IT 09:58:24 CLEAR TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CONGRESS TAKES ITS 09:58:28 OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TO VOTE AGAINST 09:58:31 CLOTURE. AND IF WE DO HAVE CLOTURE, I 09:58:32 WILL HAVE OTHER REMARKS DURING POST-CLOTURE DEBATE. 09:58:39 A SENATOR: MADAM PRESIDENT? THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE 09:58:41 SENATOR FROM WYOMING. MR. ENZI: I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY 09:58:47 MAKE A COMMENT HERE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE SENATOR'S 09:58:53 FRUSTRATION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM TO 09:58:54 TRY TO GET DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. WES. 09:59:00 I WANT YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN DR. HERB BOCK'S POSITION. 09:59:04 HE IS NOT CONFIRMED. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL AUTHORITY 09:59:06 TO RUN THAT DEPARTMENT. SO WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS RELY ON 09:59:08 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, A