1415 PELOSI WEEKLY PRESSER FS10 83 14;26;50 PELOSI: Good afternoon. Thank you for accommodating a time change today since we finished our legislation yesterday, we--getting ready for the next round of legislation to come to the floor, but it changed the nature of today. Here we are. Tomorrow's a national holiday, getting ready for the Fourth of July. I wear this flag pin quite frequently. I have a couple of different flag pins, but this one particularly fraught with meaning. It says on it, one country, one destiny. American flag, one country, one destiny. These were the words that were woven into Abraham Lincoln's coat. It was an imperative then, one country, one destiny. It is an imperative now, especially now when we have such challenges to the wellbeing of our country. We have a pandemic that is wreaking havoc in households and across the country, hurting our economy. 14;28;02 In that regard, we must put aside bias and embrace science. Science, science, science. Testing, testing, testing, an answer, an answer that helps us address the virus, the pandemic, and enables us to open up our economy in a way that is safe. That's what's in the HEROES Act: testing, tracing, treatment, separation, handwashing, masks. Science, science, science. Also in the HEROES Act, so named for the heroes that it honors by keeping them employed, state and local healthcare workers, sanitation workers, transportation workers, teachers, teachers, teachers, food suppliers, you name them, employees of state and local government. And, many of them, especially in the healthcare sections, risking their lives to save other people's lives and now they may lose their jobs. And, in the HEROES Act are the resources to keep state and local government running, so they don't have to fire people so that they can continue services, because that's what they'll have to do: raise taxes or lower services or some combination thereof. 14;29;37 Also in the HEROES Act is--that we have to come together around, recognize our one country, one destiny is putting money in the pockets of the American people, direct payments, yes, but also unemployment insurance. I also have in there funding for voting at home, supporting the post office, food, and many people are going to food banks now, never thought they would. So, it's for every reason, personal, economically, patriotically, budget wise and the rest. It's very important for us to pass the HEROES Act. When we ran in 2018, our agenda was a simple one. For the people, for the people, we would lower healthcare costs by lowering the cost of prescription drugs and preserving the preexisting condition benefit, among others. That's exactly what we did. That's exactly what we did on Monday when we passed the Affordable Care Act Enhancement legislation and part of it was to lower the cost of prescription drugs by enabling the secretariat to negotiate. 14;30;59 At the same time as we were passing that enhancement, the White House is in the Supreme Court trying to overturn the Affordable Care Act because they don't believe in science and they don't believe in government. And, so if you put the two together, let's just overturn it. And, that may be what they believe. But, if that's what they believe, then they should tell the truth about it instead of saying, "Oh, we support the benefit of preexisting condition existing." No, you're in court to overturn it. You've been trying to overturn it this whole time of the Trump administration and now, you've taken it to the Supreme Court and we will fight--we will fight that fight there. But, I'm very proud of the work of our Chairman to bring our agenda for the people and the work of the committee members. 14;31;54 The second part of our agenda was the--was to lower healthcare costs, bigger paychecks by building the infrastructure of America and to do so in a green way for the future. It was a very lengthy bill, 25 hours off in the Rules Committee--not in the Rules Committee, but in the amendment process and then a long time on the floor. I want to salute the maestro of it all, Peter DeFazio but many other chairmen played a role in that and I've acknowledged them. But, this is--it's a broad bill. It's transformational. It's the biggest and greenest infrastructure bill in the history of our country and it's about roads and bridges and surface transportation, for sure. It's also about clean water. The--some of our water systems are over 100 years old, made of brick and wood, and now this will be resources there to--to change that. It's about infrastructure for broadband so that all children, all families in our country can have distanced learning and telemedicine and all that that takes, whether they live in rural areas, which is a focus on more, or urban deserts in that regard. 14;33;21 Interestingly, Senator McConnell complains this so called infrastructure bill would siphon billions in funding from actual infrastructure to funnel into climate change policies. Exactly. We're not siphoning off money. We're building infrastructure for the future, not for the '50s and we're doing it in a way that cleans the air--is a health issue, clean air, clean water. It's an economic issue, transportation, transfer of product to--from farm to market and the rest. It's a fabulous bill. It would take too long to go further into it. But, be sure it's the safest and greenest infrastructure bill. And, we're proud of this legislation because you know what, it advances environmental justice. In our healthcare bill, it was about justice in healthcare, addressing the concerns of previously underserved communities who are now more drastically affected by the coronavirus. 14;34;37 Part of it was--again, in that regard, many of you there were on the steps of the Capitol rolling out the solving the climate crisis action plan, led by Congresswoman Madam Chair, Kathy Castor of Florida, the most detailed sweeping climate plan in over a decade reflecting over 100 hearings across nearly every committee in the Congress. Lower healthcare costs, bigger paychecks, cleaner government. And, the cleaner government piece in the last few days, the centerpiece was the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act, which fundamentally transformed the culture of policing--of ending police brutality and bring accountability to our police departments. It will save lives. It recognizes that overwhelmingly, our men and women in uniform take great pride in the integrity that they bring to their job, but some don't and this bill addresses that. 14;35;45 And, we're so proud that George Floyd's family allowed us to name the bill for him. They said it met his--their standards. That was last Thursday and last Friday. We proudly, for the first time, the House voted to grant statehood to the District of Columbia. Our--as members of Congress, again, our priority--and even all elected officials, safety is our top priority. If you're not--if the people aren't safe, what--where does the rest--the rest of it doesn't matter as much. A matter of intelligence, force protection is a top priority to protect our men and women in uniform before the initiation of hostilities or in response to them when they are in danger. Their protection is of the highest priority. 14;36;40 And, so when there are allegations of threats to our men and women in uniform, we expect the President of the United States to give them that same force protection, that same priority. And, we are disappointed that that has not happened. In the last--I called for Russian sanctions to be expanded. In our last Russian sections--sanctions legislation, you may recall, we had a strong bipartisan bill that was to be sent to the President, but the White House said they wanted us to take out the sanctions on Russia that pertained to the intelligence and the defense sectors, the very sector that is accused of possible threats on our men and women in uniform. We have to restore those. Whatever else happens of this, we must restore those sanctions and we must act upon them. 14;37;49 While we're in the international arena, as many of you know, I saw some of you there, this week, Beijing passed its so called National Security Law, which signals the death of one country, two systems principle. When I say I saw some of you there, I meant the Foreign Affairs Committee hearing yesterday. As one who has worked on human rights in China, in a bipartisan way, with our colleagues across the aisle and across the Capitol, it was so encouraging to see the room was in overflow crowd of members from both sides of the aisle. Of course, we had to keep our distance and therefore the members, some had to sit in the, shall we say, audience and others had to come in virtually. But, it was the fullest participation for us to review what is happening there. It was a proud and broad bipartisan participation to shine a light and condemn this law. 14;38;54 Congress, and again on a bipartisan basis, is united in our mission to hold Beijing accountable. Last year, the House passed the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act and yesterday, we passed Hong Kong Autonomy Act, which had already passed the Senate and that is to help end China's campaign of cruelty against Hong Kong. You've heard me say it again and again. If we don't speak out against violations of human rights in China because of commercial interest, we lose all moral authority to speak out against human rights violations anyplace in the world. Getting back to the flag and the Fourth of July, we take that pledge every day in the civic arena, pledge to the flag, ends with liberty and justice for all. And, everything that I talked about here, whether it was healthcare or job security or environmental justice or justice in policing or statehood for the District of--we're talking about liberty and justice for all. 14;39;48 That has to be central to all of the legislation that we have put forth and I'm proud to say that it has been in this array of bills that came forth between last Thursday and yesterday evening and now we'll continue our work in committee to bring forth legislation when we come back. Central to them all will be liberty and justice for all, especially poignant for us as we observe the Fourth of July. Any questions? (INAUDIBLE) PELOSI: Yes, ma'am? QUESTION: Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is about Hong Kong. There is a new proposal that grants--that grants refugee status to Hong Kong residents. Do you support that bill? There's a bipartisan bill on that. And, also, what is your overall reaction to mass arrests in Hong Kong during July 1st protests against the security (INAUDIBLE)? 14;41;08 PELOSI: Well, at the hearing yesterday, I had the privilege, by unanimous consent, to participate in the hearing and to listen to the testimony of the witnesses. And, I said that one of my concerns about the law was is it starting now that you cannot--you can practically do nothing. You have no expression of anything that you would not be susceptible to prosecution probably in Beijing. So, my question was, does this retroact? Does this apply to all of the protests the democrat--for democratic freedoms that have happened in Hong Kong? I don't know the answer to that. The Chinese government does, and unfortunately, they're not sharing that with us right now. But I--I fear for it. But if you if you saw this secure--so called national security, what it is is suppression of--of any expression in Hong Kong really sad. So, I'm disappointed, obviously in the arrest of anyone who's speaking out peacefully for Democratic freedoms wherever it is. 14;42;24 In terms of refugee, I'm not familiar with that, but those people would qualify because they have, by this law, a well-founded fear of persecution in their--in the place of origin from which they would come. So, they would qualify on that score. I would rather we could make it right in Hong Kong so that that place of such entrepreneurship and dynamism and spirit of democracy. I've told you before when--when 2 million people were in the street like a year and a half ago, I said to the president could you say something about the young people in the street? He said did you see the size of that crowd? 2 million people. I said yeah. Even more significant when you know that that is 25 percent of the population of Hong Kong. This is a real tragedy. It's so sad. But in the Congress, in the house and in the Senate in a very unified way, we have all worked together. It has been a--for me, a joy to be bonding with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, both sides of the capital on this very important issue and the Republicans have been there every step of the way. I hope the president will be. QUESTION: Madam Speaker. QUESTION: Madam Speaker. PELOSI: Yes, ma'am. QUESTION: Given-- PELOSI: --I'll do you next. QUESTION: Given the briefing that you have received today-- PELOSI: --Yeah-- QUESTION: --Do you think that the president should have been verbally briefed on the information related to Russian bounties? 14;43;54 PELOSI: Having nothing to do with the briefing that we had today, I think the president should have been verbally briefed on it. But I thought that before the hearing end it had nothing to do with anything that we were presented at the hearing. Of course, the president should have been briefed. This is of the highest priority. Force protection. A threat to our men and women in uniform. The president--it was in his PDB, Presidential Daily Brief, but it wasn't verbally--but that doesn't mean that mean that he shouldn't have read that. But again, having nothing to do with we saw today. QUESTION: Thank you, Madam Speaker. To that end though, I know that you're always limited in what you can say about these briefings here-- PELOSI: --Right-- QUESTION: --Some have said that--that this information should have been things that the gang of eight or others would have known about. That said, can you comment if you did know about this? 14;44;51 PELOSI: I didn't know about it, but I will say this, it was of a consequential level that the intelligence community should have brought it to us in that way. But what is important is president's relationship with Russia. This is--this is at the same time as the White House was aware of this threat to security of our men and women in uniform the president was still flirting with the idea of having Russia be part of the G8 in total opposition to the wishes of the other members of the G8. It wasn't--they weren't there Russia wasn't because of their annexation of Crimea, their invasion of Ukraine. You can't be in the G8 or G7. So why was the president--why were they not raising this to a level to say to the president this is not a good time for you to be saying Russia should be part of the G8 when in fact there is reason to suspect that Russia was--was threatening the security of our men and women in uniform. QUESTION: So, Madam Speaker-- PELOSI: --Garret. Yes, sir-- QUESTION: --To that end what should happen now? I mean you mentioned potentially restoring those sanctions-- PELOSI: --Yes-- QUESTION: --I know you just had this briefing, but do you think there are other steps that Congress should take in light of everything we're learning about this episode? 14;46;18 PELOSI: Well, let me just say, and Garrett referenced my statement about I said earlier I think that the that when Congress in a bipartisan way passed sanctions on Russia, the administration told us to take out the sanctions on the GRU, the intelligence as well as the defense sectors of Russia. Those should definitely still--they were there in a bipartisan way. It's just the administration wanted them out. I don't know why. So, we should have those in there in any event. As this proceeds, we'll see what other sanctions there should be. But we want to move all doubt in anyone's mind that just because it's Russia and just because all those roads through the president leads to Putin doesn't mean That we shouldn't be taking careful guard of our elections because 24/7 they are trying to undermine the integrity of our elections again and other concerns that we have about Russian behavior and cyber security and actual security issues. But we don't subject it to the same kind of scrutiny this administration hasn't because it's Russia. Yes, sir? QUESTION: On the domestic-- PELOSI: --Oh, okay-- QUESTION: --Did I cut somebody off? PELOSI: (INAUDIBLE) QUESTION: Okay. I'm sorry. On the domestic front-- PELOSI: --Yes-- QUESTION: --You're leaving now for a few weeks. You come back July 20th. Is there enough time to negotiate a compromise on the next COVID relief package? PELOSI: Of course. QUESTION: And what about immunity? 14;48;00 PELOSI: First of all, I'm not leaving for two weeks. Don't give my husband and my family any thought that I will be there for two weeks. No, we come back the beginning of next week with the Appropriations Committee starting actually on Monday for some subcommittees, my understanding for sure Tuesday so that they can put the subcommittee can do their work on appropriations and the full committee the week after can do their--each of those bills so that when we do come back, we're ready to go to the floor. Many people will be here, some will have--be virtual combat, some of it hybrid, some of it actually some virtual. We'll see but Congress will be intensely working not just--not just Appropriations Committee, but that is what must be done by September 30th. So that has a priority. 14;48;53 And last night, they didn't go too late. They were at a reasonable time, the defense bill was passed, the--the NDAA the National Defense Authorization Act. 56 to 0. Completely bipartisan bill. We were very proud of that. But yes, we have (INAUDIBLE) we have everything we have in the in the HEROES Act is something Republicans have voted for before except one thing which is a stronger OSHA standard to protect our workers. But everything else in the bill they voted for before. So, this is nothing new to them. Some of the bigger, some of it fresher, but all of it something they voted on before. And we're having--how this works is the committees do their work and then the--what is unresolved gets kicked up to the four leaders and what's unresolved there, obviously the president as going to sign the bill would weigh in there. So, they know. They've made their overtures, they also have said publicly that this or that should be in the next bill. So, we anticipate we will have a bill. Yes, Sir? QUESTION: Madam Speaker, back if I may come into the intelligence aspect of this-- PELOSI: --Yes-- QUESTION: --The White House continues to say that this is not yet verified, one of the reasons that the president did not rise to his level. It sounds like you're speaking about this maybe a little bit more conclusive than the White House believes that it is. Is that your view? 14;50;26 PELOSI: let me just say this. You got the con. The White House put on a con that if you don't have 100 percent consensus on intelligence that we shouldn't be--it shouldn't rise to a certain level. Well, we would practically be investigating nothing if you had to start at 100 percent. So, don't buy into that and neither should the--does the intelligence community. It's--it's an investigation. It's gathering intelligence and they have enough intelligence to know where we have to go next with it. So, I don't--I don't know what the point of your question is that just because they didn't have 100 percent consensus should this be not brief, should the president of the United States-- QUESTION: --I guess--I guess my-- PELOSI: --When it involves the security and safety of our men and women in uniform? As we said in our statement, Chuck Schumer and I, he should spend more time reading that daily presidential brief--presidential daily brief whatever, than planning military parades and preserving the relics of the confederacy. QUESTION: Madam Speaker, on that topic-- UNKNOWN: --Last question-- QUESTION: --You obviously care a lot about symbols and symbols of America I think I'm going to take my mask--make this a little clearer. Can you update us on where you think things stand with the Confederate statues remaining in the capital an if you just assume that now that's left to the states because leader McConnell is not engaging? And also, vice president--former Vice President Biden said this week he believes there's a distinction For Jefferson, Washington. Both of those meant there's a bust of Washington and a statue of Jefferson in the House side, which you control. Do you believe there's a distinction or should there be a conversation about those representations as well? 14;52;16 PELOSI: I do believe that if people have committed treason against the United States of America, their statues should not be in the capital, and that is--and we took down the painting of the speakers who were members of the confederacy and there will be legislation coming forth to remove those same people who meet that low description, if you've committed treason against the United States of America. It's not about Washington and Jefferson, it's about Alexander Stevens. Read what he said about people. It's about the president of the confederacy, whose statue is up there, who committed treason against the United States. So that's the clarity that we should have. Some of it is the states have put them there, states may want to review. But in the meantime, while they may be in the capital, we can decide where they are in the capital. Thank you all very much. Happy 4th of July. Take care. Keep a distance, wash your hands. Happy 4th.

WASH 7 PEOTUS BIDEN INTRODUCES KEY MEMERS OF CLIMATE TEAM PROTECTIVE BIDEN ARRIVAL AT THE QUEEN ~141823 FOLLOWED BY ALT CUT CAM OF CLIMATE TEAM MEMBERS INTRODUCTION DEPARTURE FROM THE QUEEN ~154600 CHURCH ARRIVAL ~155935 EDITORIAL AND FOR CLIMATE TEAM ANNOUNCEMENT BELOW: President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris rolled out newly announced members of their climate team Saturday afternoon in Wilmington, DE, but ignored a mix of shouted question as he was leaving the stage, including if he thought Russia was behind the recent cyber attack and if the hack was an act of war, if he would complete his cabinet next week, and if he would support appointing a special prosecutor to oversee the investigation of his son, Hunter. [HAALAND] Rep. Deb Haaland set the tone for the event, becoming emotional as she accepted her hisotric nomination to be Interior Secretary. If confirmed, she would become the first Native American cabinet secretary, and would be the first Native person to oversee federal lands in American history. She choked up when she said â?oI am honored and humbled to accept their nomination for secretary of the interior.â?? 145425 She noted she was standing on ancestral land of the Lenape tribal nation, and expressed that growing up in a Pueblo home made her â?oFierce.â?? She noted just how remarkable her nomination is, given the history of the department: â?oThis moment is profound when we consider the fact that a former Secretary of the Interior once proclaimed his goal to, quote, â?ocivilize or exterminate us.â?? I'm a living testament to the failure of that horrific ideology. I also stand on the shoulders of my ancestors and all the people who have sacrificed so that I can be here,â?? Haaland said (14:54:58) Biden praised Haaland for taking on the historic role, and her particular ability to help strengthen relations between the U.S. and tribal nations. â?oWith her appointment, Congresswoman Haaland will help me strengthen the nation-to-nation relationship, and Iâ?Tm honored to accept that sheâ?Ts been willing, when I called her, to accept this critical role. Again, Deb, thank you for doing this,â?? Biden said. (14:44:25) [DIVERSITY] Haaland was not the only history-making nominee introduced today, and Biden touted the diversity of the cabinet: â?oToday, the announcement we will make this -- the sixth African-American, the sixth of African-American members of our cabinet which is a record. After today, our cabinet wonâ?Tt just be one of or two precedent breaking appointments but 12, including today's long overdue appointment of the first Native American cabinet secretary. And welcome, welcome, welcome. Thanks for being willing to do this,â?? Biden said. (14:34:43) â?oAlready, there are more people of color in our cabinet than any cabinet ever, more women than ever. The Biden-Harris cabinet, it will be historic -- the cabinet that looks like America, that taps into the best of America, that opens doors and includes the full range of talents we have in this nation.â?? Biden added. (14:35:10) [GRANHOLM] Biden complimented former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm on her work to bail out the auto industry, saying â?oshe bet on the promise of a clean energy future,â?? saying the two have become friends over time and he hopes she can bring her â?ohard working, resilient, and forward thinking qualitiesâ?? to the Department of Energy. (Notably, Biden did not mention Energyâ?Ts purview over nuclear matters, an area Granholm has less experience dealing with). Granholm pledged that millions of jobs would be created by the green energy revolution, preaching the importance of building those products in American. â?oOver the next two decades, countries and companies are going to invest trillions -- trillions, not just billions, trillions -- in electric cars and batteries and wind turbines and solar panels and energy efficient appliances and energy efficient buildings. They're going to upgrade their electric grids using smart technology. Millions of good-paying jobs are going to be created, millions. But where? Where will those jobs be? (14:59:28) Are they going to be in China or in the other countries that are fighting tooth and nail to corner the market on this hopeful electric and clean energy future? Or are they -- those jobs going to be here in America? The path to building back better starting with building and manufacturing and deploying those products here, stamping them â?oMade in America,â?? and exporting them around the world,â?? Biden said. (14:59:58) The former governor noted her immigrant roots from Canada, and spoke personally of her own familyâ?Ts struggle to find opportunity--which she said fueled her desire to create opportunities for other. And it's because of my family's journey and my experience in fighting for hard working Michigan families that I have become obsessed -- obsessed with creating good-paying jobs in America in a global economy, obsessed with seizing the opportunities that a clean energy future will provide for American workers. So we can stand on the sidelines and let other countries beat us to these opportunities, or we can get in the game,â?? (15:02:43) [REGAN] Biden then turned to his EPA chief, Michael Regan, the first African American man to hold the position, and heralded him as someone who would â?oreassertâ?? the EPA as â?othe worldâ?Ts premier agency.â?? Regan noted the actualization of his lifelong dream to work for the EPA, pledging that he would protect families and communities in an effort to make the world cleaner and healthier. â?oSo this opportunity, well, it's a dream come true. Since the start of my career, my goals have been the same: to safeguard our natural resources, to improve the quality of our air and our water, to protect our families and our communities and to help them seize the opportunities of a cleaner healthier world. Now, I'm honored to pursue those goals alongside leaders who understand what's at stake,â?? Regan said. (15:05:43) He discussed his health challenges as a youth talking about how it inspired him to focus his career on environmental issues. â?oI developed a deep love and respect for the outdoors and our natural resources, but I also experienced respiratory issues that required me to use an inhaler on days when pollutants and allergens were especially bad. I've always been curious about the connections between our environment and our health,â?? Regan said. (15:04:45) [OTHER ROLES] Biden also nominated Brenda Malloy as chair of the Council on Environmental Quality. She would also be the first African American person to hold that position. Malloy at the beginning of her remarks called Harris Madam President-elect, which she quickly corrected. Biden said his decision to ask former EPA administrator Gina McCarthy as the Domestic Climate Czar shows how serious he is about climate, by choosing someone who has â?oforgotten more about climate than most people know.â?? When Biden joked that he â?oused to drive her crazy asking her questions,â?? McCarthy nodded and laughed in agreement. (14:51:18) McCarthy noted her thick Boston accent and roots, and recalled how her childhood there taught her the importance of health and environment, leading to a â?ocherishedâ?? life of public service. McCarthy expressed her optimism about the ability to impact change, quoting Bidenâ?Ts â?~Build Back betterâ?T plan and seemed to play on Bidenâ?Ts memoirâ?Ts title, â?opromises to keep,â?? noting Bidenâ?Ts plan would be a â?~promise kept.â?T Biden again mispronounced yet another name, this time it was Ali Zaidi which he acknowledged during his remarks, which drew laughs from Bidenâ?Ts other picks. â?oI appoint Ali Zandi -- Zaidi, excuse me. And Ali, you can be â?oBidden.â?? If I mispronounced your last name, I apologize. [laughter] He served as the top -- top climate adviser to President Obama and me in the Office of Management and Budget and the Domestic Policy Council. He helped draft and implement our Climate Action Plan and secure the Paris Climate Agreement,â?? Biden said. (14:51:45) Zaidi noted his immigrant roots, moving as a child from Pakistan to Pennsylvania, and praised Biden for his leadership during the trying year. [HARRIS] Harris spoke about the growing threat of climate change across the country, noting â?oOur climate crisis is not a partisan issue, and it is not a hoax.â?? Harris said that part of the reason she was so excited to join a Biden administration was because of his climate change plan. â?oPart of the reason I was so proud to join Joe Biden as his running mate was because he was proposing one of the most ambitious climate plans in history. A plan to secure carbon pollution free electricity by 2035, a plan to achieve net zero emissions no later than 2050. A plan to invest in a clean energy future and create millions of good-paying union jobs along the way. And the team that President-Elect Biden and I are announcing today will help make that plan a reality,â?? Harris said. (15:24:55) [CLIMATE CHANGE] Climate change was one of the four crises Biden continually outlined during the campaign, and he laid out the climate challenge before him with examples of the destruction weâ?Tve seen just this year, saying â?oitâ?Ts not just the pandemic that keeps people inside, itâ?Ts poor air quality,â?? in addition to wildfires, hurricanes, and other disasters: â?oJust this year, wildfires burned more than 5 million acres in California and Washington state. Across the West, theyâ?Tre roughly the size of the entire state of New Jersey -- literally burned to the ground. Intense and powerful hurricanes, tropical storms pummelled Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina, across the Gulf along the East coast. Record floods, hurricane speed, wind storms and severe droughts ravaged the Midwest and more Americans see and feel the devastation in big cities, small towns, on coastlines and in farm lands, in red states and in blue,â?? Biden said. (14:35:32) Biden pledged that his plan would create 1 Million jobs in the auto industry, and would move the U.S. to a carbon neutral by the year 2030, and pointed to the Obama-Biden administration as a guide for how to take such bold action. Biden added that his administration would help to build 1.5 million energy efficient homes, and work to address environmental injustice across the country. FULL LOG BELOW (VIA WASH 6, HEAD ON POOL): 143353 BIDEN>> Good afternoon. I was a little late because I was explaining to these distinguished nominees that it seems inappropriate for me to ask them to come all the way to Wilmington, Delaware, and then Iâ?Tm not able to invite them to my home and show any hospitality but hopefully, we're gonna get through this -- this crisis sooner than later and we can get back, we can get back to normal. 143419 Let me begin by saying good afternoon. Today, I'm pleased to announce a team that will lead my administration's ambitious plan to address the existential threat of our time, climate change. [clears throat] Excuse me. Like other fellow cabinet nominees and appointees, members of our Environmental & Energy team are brilliant, theyâ?Tre qualified, tested and they are barrier-busting. 143443 Today, the announcement we will make this -- the sixth African-American, the sixth of African-American members of our cabinet which is a record. After today, our cabinet wonâ?Tt just be one of or two precedent breaking appointments but 12, including today's long overdue appointment of the first Native American cabinet secretary. And welcome, welcome, welcome. Thanks for being willing to do this. 143510 Already, there are more people of color in our cabinet than any cabinet ever, more women than ever. The Biden-Harris cabinet, it will be historic -- the cabinet that looks like America, that taps into the best of America, that opens doors and includes the full range of talents we have in this nation. 143530 And like the rest of the team, today's nominees are ready on day one, which is essential because we literally have no time to waste. Just this year, wildfires burned more than 5 million acres in California and Washington state. Across the West, theyâ?Tre roughly the size of the entire state of New Jersey -- literally burned to the ground. Intense and powerful hurricanes, tropical storms pummelled Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina, across the Gulf along the East coast. 143606 Record floods, hurricane speed, wind storms and severe droughts ravaged the Midwest and more Americans see and feel the devastation in big cities, small towns, on coastlines and in farm lands, in red states and in blue. Look, billions of dollars in damage, homes and memories washed away, small businesses closed for good, crops and farmlands destroyed for the next generation of family farmers. 143639 And just last year, the Defense department reported that climate change is a direct threat to more than two-thirds of our military operational (?) critical installations in the world, particularly in the United States. And this could well be a conservative estimate. And so many climate and health calamities are colliding all at once. It's not just a pandemic that keeps people inside, it's poor air quality. 143705 Multiple studies have shown air pollution is associated with the increased risk of death from Covid-19. Folks, we're in a crisis. Just like we need to be a unified nation in response to covid-19, we need a unified national response to climate change. We need to meet the moment with the urgency it demands, as we would during any national emergency. And from this crisis -- from these crises, I should say, we need to seize the opportunity to build back, and build back better than we were before. 143740 That's what this administration is going to do with the help of these fine people. You know, when we think about climate change, we think jobs, good paying union jobs. A key plank of our Build Back Better economy and economic plan is building a modern, climate resistant infrastructure and a clean energy future. We can put millions of Americans to work modernizing water, transportation and energy infrastructure to withstand the impacts of extreme weather. 143811 When we think about renewable energy, we see American manufacturers, American workers racing to lead the global market. We see farmers making agriculture first in the world to achieve net-zero emissions, and gaining new sources of income in the process on the farm (?). And we see small businesses and master-electricians designing and installing innovative, energy conserving buildings and gomes. Weâ?Tre gonna reduce electric consumption and save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in energy costs. 143845 And we will challenge everyone, everyone, to step up. And we'll bring America back -- back into the Paris agreement, and put us back in the business of leading the world on climate change again. The current administration reversed the Obama-Biden fuel efficiency standards, and picked big oil companies over American workers. Our administration will not only bring those standards back, we will set new ambitious standards that our workers are ready to meet today. 143916 We see American workers building and installing over 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations across this country. We see American consumers switching to electrical vehicles through rebates and incentives. And not only that, the federal government owns and maintains an enormous fleet of vehicles. Weâ?Tre gonna harness the purchasing power of our federal government to make sure weâ?Tre buying clean electric vehicles that are made and sourced by union workers right here in America. 143946 Altogether, this will mean one million, one million new jobs in the American auto industry. And weâ?Tll do another big thing, put us on a path of achieving a carbon pollution free, electric energy sector by the year 2035 that no future president can turn back. Transforming the American electric sector to produce power without carbon pollution will be the greatest spur to job creation and economic competitiveness in the 21st century, not to mention the benefits to our health and our environment. 144023 But we need to get to work. We gotta get to work right away. Weâ?Tll need scientists at national labs, land grant universities, historically black colleges and universities to innovate the technologies needed to generate, store and transmit this clean energy. Weâ?Tll need engineers to design them, workers to manufacture them. Weâ?Tll need iron workers and welders to install them. That's how we're going to become the world's largest exporter of these technologies, creating even more jobs. 144053 We know how to do this. The Obama-Biden administration reduced the auto industry and -- excuse me, I should say (?), rescued the automobile industry while reducing pollution. And at the same time, helped them retool. We made solar energy costs competitive with traditional energy, weatherized more than a million homes. The Recovery Act made record clean energy investments, $90 billion on everything from smart grid systems to clean energy manufacturing. 144124 And we're going to do it again but this time, bigger, faster, and better than before. We're also going to build 1.5 million new energy efficient homes and public housing units that will benefit our communities three times over, by alleviating the affordable housing crisis, by increasing energy efficiency and by reducing the racial wealth gap linked to homeownership. 144150 We're going to create more than a quarter million jobs right away to do things like working toward plugging the 3,200,000 abandoned oil and gas wells that the EPA says pose an ongoing threat to the health and safety of our communities. They're going to be good-paying union jobs doing that. We're going to launch a new, modern day civilian climate corp to heal our public lands and make us less vulnerable to wildfires and floods. And I believe that every American has a fundamental right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. 144228 But I know that we haven't fulfilled that right. No, we haven't fulfilled that right for a generation or more in places like Cancer Alley in Louisiana or right here in my state, along route 9, on the Delaware Corridor. Fulfilling this basic obligation to all Americans -- especially to low income, white, Black, Brown and Native American communities who too often don't have the clean air and clean water. And it's not going to be easy, but it's absolutely necessary. 144258 And we're committed to facing -- weâ?Tre committed to climate change by delivering environmental justice. These aren't pie in the sky dreams. These are concrete, actionable solutions and the team is going to get it done. For the Secretary of Interior, I nominate Congresswoman Deb Haaland. Sheâ?Ts of the Pueblo people, only 35 generations in New Mexico, and sheâ?Ts from a military family. 144326 Her mom, also Pueblo, served in the United States Navy. Her dad, a Norwegian American, a Marine, now buried in Arlington. A single mom, she raised her child while running a small business. When times were tough, they relied on food stamps. Congresswoman Haaland graduated from law school, and then got involved in politics and public life. 144349 Two years ago, she became one of the first Native American women to serve in the United States Congress. She serves on the Armed Services Committee and the Committee on Natural Resources, and chairs the subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands, which I have an incredibly sincere interest in, where she learned -- she learned and she earned the respect of a broad coalition of people from tribal leaders to environmental groups to labor. 144418 As the first Native American Cabinet Secretary in the history of the United States of America, she'll be a true steward of our National Parks, our natural resources and all of our lands. The federal government has long broken promises to Native American tribes who have been on this land since time immemorial. With her appointment, Congresswoman Haaland will help me strengthen the nation-to-nation relationship, and Iâ?Tm honored to accept that sheâ?Ts been willing, when I called her, to accept this critical role. Again, Deb, thank you for doing this. 144452 For Secretary of Energy, I nominate Governor Jennifer Granholm, first woman -- where's Jennifer? Back there. She's a great friend as well. First woman to ever serve as Governor of Michigan. In 2009, she faced the collapse of the defining industry of her state and our nation, but I saw firsthand how she responded. She bet on the auto-workers. She bet on the promise of a clean energy future. 144524 Her leadership helped rescue the automobile industry in the United States of America, helped save a million American jobs, and helped bring Detroit back. Governor Granholm is just like the state she's led to efficiently and effectively for eight years: hard working, resilient, and forward thinking, someone not only capable of solving urgent problems but someone who sees the opportunities of the future and always, always has their eyes on needs and aspirations of working people. 144553 Weâ?Tve become friends over time. Together, throughout her career, sheâ?Ts worked with states, cities, business and labor to promote a clean energy future with new jobs, new industry, cleaner and more affordable energy. Now, I'm asking her to bring that vision and faith in America to the Department of Energy. And thank you for being willing to do it, Jennifer. I appreciate it a bunch. 144618 For Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, I nominate Michael Regan. Michael is a proud son of North Carolina. He turned a passion for exploring the woods and waters and intercoastal plain into a deep expertise on environmental science. He got his start at the EPA serving, and with both Democrat and Republican administrations, working in everything from reducing air pollution to improving energy efficiency. He currently serves as Secretary of North Carolina's Department of Environmental Quality. 144652 When the Governor told me how wonderful he was, I don't think he expected I was going to try to steal him but, Governor, thank you very much for putting up with me. But the Environmental Quality he's brought to the people across the public and private and non-profit sectors to help build new, clean energy economy, creating quality jobs and confronting climate change, he led the charge to clean up the Cape Fear river, contaminated for years by dangerous toxic chemicals. 144721 He created North Carolina's first board of its kind to address environmental justice and equality and equity. Itâ?Ts helped lift up front line -- front line and fence line communities that are those communities that live along, that literally have fences separating them from the plants that are polluting with chemicals and other plants that are polluting. It helps lift up those front line and fence communities that carried the burdens of industrial progress for much too long, without sharing in any of the benefits. 144753 Michael would be the second African-American official and the first African-American man to serve in this position. He shares my belief in forming consensus and finding common purpose. He's a leader who will respect the EPA's place as the world's premier -- premier Environmental Protection Agency, and reassert that as the world premier agency that safeguards our entire planet, protects our lives and strengthens our economy for all Americans. 144823 And to chair the Council on Environmental Quality, I nominate Brenda Malloy, an accomplished public servant, a brilliant environmental lawyer, daughter of a working class family who has dedicated her life to solving the most complex environmental challenges facing America. Sheâ?Ts served in both Democratic and Republican administrations, helping safeguard our public lands, helping -- helping communities manage their natural resources and responsibilities. 144853 Chair of -- chair of CEO, Council on Economic Quality, Iâ?Tm asking her to coordinate our environmental efforts across the entire federal government to solve some of the most persistent environmental problems America faces today. Brenda would be the first African-American official to hold this critical position. We are fortunate that one of the most widely respected environmental leaders in the country accepted the call to serve again. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 144923 To serve as the first ever National Climate Adviser -- By the way, when we were in the back, we were talking about the environment, and I turned and said that this particular person's forgotten more about the environment than most people know. I was really -- I wasn't sure she was going to do it, but the first climate adviser lead the newly former -- to lead the newly formed White House Office of Domestic Policy, I'm appointing Gina McCarthy. 144952 Gina was the former EPA administrator. In this role, she led the office, and it shows how serious I am to ask her to come back, and it shows how committed she is to be willing to come back. Ginaâ?Ts got more than 20 years of experience, and she's a policy wonk and a people person, a problem solver and coalition builder. As EPA Administrator, she was instrumental in carrying out the Obama-Biden Climate Action plan, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, getting toxins out of the air we breathe, conserving critical water sources. 145026 She led our effort to help lower carbon emissions of existing power plants and power plants of the future. And by doing the necessary work here at home, she helped us rally the world around the Paris Climate Accords. Today, I'm asking her to take a singular focus on carrying out the ambitious climate agenda here at home and working with my special envoy, former secretary of state John Kerry, who leads our climate effort around the world. 145056 And I'm grateful, Iâ?Tm grateful that she agreed to do it. I'm looking forward to working alongside her again. I used to drive her crazy when I was Vice President, always calling and asking all these questions. And she's thinking, â?omy god, what's he going to do as president?â?? But -- [laughs] And to serve -- to serve as our National Climate Adviser, 145118 I appoint Ali Zandi -- Zaidi, excuse me. And Ali, you can be â?oBidden.â?? If I mispronounced your last name, I apologize. [laughter] He served as the top -- top climate adviser to President Obama and me in the Office of Management and Budget and the Domestic Policy Council. He helped draft and implement our Climate Action Plan and secure the Paris Climate Agreement. 145145 He currently serves as New York Deputy Secretary of Energy and Environment, and the state's chairman of Climate Policy and Finance. He's helping to create jobs generating solar and wind power, jobs building electric charging stations and a more modern grid with (?) bold climate action grounded in science, economic and public health. And he's an immigrant -- heâ?Ts an immigrant from Pakistan who grew up in the rust belt outside of Erie, Pennsylvania. 145212 I was from the better part of the state, the northeast. You know where -- Scranton and Pittsburgh area. You know, but all kidding aside, he knows -- he knows we can beat the climate crisis and we can do it with jobs. He knows we can deliver environmental justice and revitalize communities as well, too often overlooked and forgotten. And every day, heâ?Tll walk into the White House knowing the world is looking for America to lead. 145239 I say to each one of you: thank you for answering the call. And thank you to your families. We couldnâ?Tt do this without them, we couldn't do it without you. To career civil services at the agencies, I know that many of you have felt forgotten for a long time. We look forward to working with you to once again carrying out your department's mission and honor the integrity of the offices at the organization you're involved in. 145305 And to the American people: yes, the goals I've laid out are bold. The challenges ahead are daunting, but I want you to know that we can do this. We must do this, and we will do this. We are America. There's nothing we can't do when we do it together. So I say again to all of you: god bless you all, may god protect our troops. And now, I'm going to turn this to the team, starting with our next Secretary of Interior, congresswoman Deb Haaland. Deb, the floor is yours once they clean (?) off -- [inaud] DEB HAALAND 145407 HAALAND>> Thank you. Thank you. I'm proud to stand here on the ancestral homelands of the Lenape tribal nation. The President-Elect and Vice President-Elect are committed to a diverse cabinet, and Iâ?Tm honored and humbled to accept their nomination for Secretary of the Interior. [tearing up] Growing up in my mother's Puebla household made me fierce. 145432 My life has not been easy. I struggled with homelessness. I relied on food stamps, and raised my child as a single mom. These struggles give me perspectives, though, so that I can help people to succeed. My grandparents who were taken away from their families as children and sent to boarding school, in an effort to destroy their traditions and identities, maintained our culture. 145458 This moment is profound when we consider the fact that a former Secretary of the Interior once proclaimed his goal to, quote, â?ocivilize or exterminate us.â?? I'm a living testament to the failure of that horrific ideology. I also stand on the shoulders of my ancestors and all the people who have sacrificed so that I can be here. 145523 My dad was a U.S. Marine and, no matter where we were stationed, he made sure we spent time outdoors. Time with my dad in the mountains or on the beach, and time with my grandparents in the cornfield at Laguna taught me to respect the Earth and to value our resources. I carry those values with me everywhere. I'm a product of their resilience. 145547 As our country faces the impacts of climate change and environmental injustice, the Interior Department has a role to address these challenges. The President-Elect's goals, driven by justice and empowering communities who have shouldered the burdens of environmental negligence, and we will ensure that the decisions at Interior will once again be driven by science. 145615 We know that climate change can only be solved with participation of every department and of every community. Coming together in a common purpose, this country can and will tackle this challenge. The President Elect and Vice President-Elect know that issues under Interiorâ?Ts jurisdiction aren't simply about conservation. They're woven in with justice, good jobs, and closing the racial wealth and health gaps. 145647 This historic moment will not go by without the acknowledgement of the many people who have believed in me over the years and had the confidence in me for this position. I'll be fierce for all of us, for our planet and all of our protected land, and I'm honored and ready to serve. Thank you again. JENNIFER GRANHOLM 145732 GRANHOLM>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you for your confidence. I bring my gratitude and that of the loves of my life, my husband and best friend and partner, Dan Mulhurn, glorious children and their equally magnificent spouses, Connor and Alexis, Cece and Damian, and Jack. 145802 My commitment to clean energy was forged in the fire. I was the governor of Michigan, as the President-Elect said, during the great recession when it struck and pushed our auto industry, which is the life blood of Michigan, to the brink of utter collapse. Workers were losing their jobs through no fault of their own, banks wouldn't lend, people were losing their houses. Our unemployment rate in Michigan was 15%. In Detroit, it was 28%. 145839 But then, thankfully, as now, help was on the way. Joe Biden and the Obama administration worked with us to rescue the auto industry and the million jobs that are attached to it. They worked with us to retool and electrify Detroit for the future, of course, and to diversify Michigan's economy on the premise of this promising future in clean energy. So, today, in the midst of another harrowing crisis, clean energy remains among the most promising jobs and economic growth sector in the world. 145928 Over the next two decades, countries and companies are going to invest trillions -- trillions, not just billions, trillions -- in electric cars and batteries and wind turbines and solar panels and energy efficient appliances and energy efficient buildings. They're going to upgrade their electric grids using smart technology. Millions of good-paying jobs are going to be created, millions. But where? Where will those jobs be? 145958 Are they going to be in China or in the other countries that are fighting tooth and nail to corner the market on this hopeful electric and clean energy future? Or are they -- those jobs going to be here in America? The path to building back better starting with building and manufacturing and deploying those products here, stamping them â?oMade in America,â?? and exporting them around the world. 150030 We can win those jobs for American workers with the right policy. We can. And I-- I know what those jobs will mean for both the planet and for those workers and families. I'm proud to have been a U.S. citizen now for 40 years, but I arrived here as a Canadian immigrant at age 4, brought by parents seeking opportunity. My mom is a funny and fierce Irish Welsh Newfi, Newfoundland, which is a Canadian province off the east coast, a fishing province they call â?othe rock.â?? 150116 And like many women in her generation, she didn't go to college. She married a great man, my dad, who passed away earlier this year of a cerebral hemorrhage. My dad was born in rural Canada in a log cabin with no running water and extreme poverty. His father, my grandfather emigrated to Canada when -- from Sweden, during the great depression. Again, seeking opportunity. But when my grandfather could not find a job to support his young family, in desperation, my grandfather shot himself, leaving my grandmother and three young children in dire poverty. 150208 My father was 3 years old when that happened. And when he was 11, my dad found work at a sawmill, and he never stopped working. He married my mom. They came to America for work. And despite not having a college degree, my hard working, gentle father got the fair chance that he was looking for in America. He had started out as a bank teller, and he retired as head of the bank. 150243 And it's because of my family's journey and my experience in fighting for hard working Michigan families that I have become obsessed -- obsessed with creating good-paying jobs in America in a global economy, obsessed with seizing the opportunities that a clean energy future will provide for American workers. So we can stand on the sidelines and let other countries beat us to these opportunities, or we can get in the game. 150317 And I am so ready and honored, Coach, that you are putting me on the field with this amazing team to help create those jobs in every pocket of this country and, especially, in the hardest hit places and for the people who are still waiting on the fair chance that they need. Thank you for tapping me to work on their behalf. MICHAEL REGAN 150410 REGAN>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you for this opportunity. Growing up as a child, hunting and fishing with my father and grandfather in eastern north Carolina, 150424 I developed a deep love and respect for the outdoors and our natural resources, but I also experienced respiratory issues that required me to use an inhaler on days when pollutants and allergens were especially bad. I've always been curious about the connections between our environment and our health. 150445 How the world around us contributes to or detracts from our enjoyment of life. So after completing my education in environmental science, there was one place in particular that I wanted to work: the EPA. When I started that first summer internship, I never imagined that one day, I would be nominated to lead an agency as its administrator. 150513 So this opportunity, well, it's a dream come true. Since the start of my career, my goals have been the same: to safeguard our natural resources, to improve the quality of our air and our water, to protect our families and our communities and to help them seize the opportunities of a cleaner healthier world. Now, I'm honored to pursue those goals alongside leaders who understand what's at stake. 150543 When President-Elect Biden called out the plight of the fence line communities during the campaign, he made it clear that we would no longer just deal with the issues up to the fence line of these facilities, but that we would actually see the people on the other side of those fence lines. He's already backed up that commitment by assembling a team that reflects America, and I'm proud to join the Vice President-Elect as a fellow HBCU graduate in this administration. 150616 Together, this team will ensure that environmental justice and human impacts are top of mind as we tackle these tough issues. After nearly a decade at the EPA, I know firsthand the remarkable dedication and talent of those career staff. And as a state official, I understand how actions from EPA can help or hurt local efforts. We're going to ensure that EPA is once again a strong partner for the states, not a roadblock. 150650 We will be driven by our convictions, that every person in our great country has the right to clean air, clean water and a healthier life, no matter how much money they have in their pockets, the color of their skin or the community that they live in. We will move with a sense of urgency on climate change, protecting our drinking water, and enact an environmental justice framework that empowers people in all communities. 150720 But we also know that these challenges can't be solved by regulation alone. And we also know that environmental protection and economic prosperity, well theyâ?Tre not mutually exclusive. They go hand in hand. We need an all hands on deck approach from industry to individuals, finding common ground to build back better for workers, for our communities, for our economy, and yes, for our planet. And that's what we'll pursue together. I look forward to continuing this work on behalf of the American people, so thank you. BRENDA MALLORY 150825 MALLORY>> Good afternoon. Mr. President-Elect, Madam President Elect -- Madam Vice President-Elect, I am honored and humbled by the trust youâ?Tve placed in me and I look forward to getting to work with this incredible team. 150841 I'm especially grateful for the chance to return to public service at a time when agency personnel are looking for optimism, and so many communities are struggling under thedr weight of persistent interwoven crises. I know firsthand the challenges that everyday people face when one unexpected illness or expense can upend the economic stability of a family. 150911 I grew up in the working class community of Waterbury, Connecticut, a town not so different from Scranton, Pennsylvania. I know the faces of the marginalized, and I appreciate the challenges of urban pollution. While the words â?oclimate changeâ?? and â?oenvironmental injusticeâ?? were not part of the vernacular back then, the evidence of their impact was all around. In that setting, there was plenty of opportunity to work to make a difference in people's lives. 150944 For my parents and particularly, my father, dedication to tackling community challenges was vitally important. Service, in all its forms, was essential. They taught me to be a problem-solver, to recognize that each of us is blessed with different talents and we are all called to bring those gifts to bear in whatever -- wherever we are, to work with anyone and everyone to make things better in communities that we share. 151018 This has been the driving force and the guiding principle of my journey. I earned a high school scholarship that changed the course of my life. I became the first person in my family to go to college. I attended law school. And at each stage, I was aware of how different the world I came from was from the one I was entering. I didn't set out to specialize in environmental issues, but once I started, I was always mindful of the practical implications of the decisions. 151050 As a staffer at the Connecticut Commission on human rights, I learned that environmental protection and ensuring the health and well being of all communities had to be reconciled. It is essential that we deploy smart and human policy -- humane policy to help communities pull themselves back from the edge and improve the health, security and prosperity of their -- of all people. 151117 The Build Back Better plan is poised to breathe new life into the Council on Environmental Quality. CEQ will work with a broad range of partners on a broad range of issues, tackle the full breadth of climate change, preserve the natural treasures of our nation, center environmental justice, and help more communities overcome legacy environmental impacts. 151146 I am grateful to the President-Elect and Vice President-Elect for elevating this work and lifting up the communities where it will make the most difference. Thank you for the opportunity to serve. GINA McCARTHY 151228 McCARTHY>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you so much for this opportunity to serve and to work beside and with this incredibly talented team. You know, the issues I've been taking on in this role are very personal to me, and they have been for as long as I can remember. As keen listeners, you would already have guessed that I grew up in and around the city of Boston. 151258 My dad was a teacher in the Boston school system for more than 40 years, and my mom waitressed at local donut shops. You know, looking back, I guess we were a lower middle class family, but we didn't know it. Instead of expensive vacations, my sisters and I did our adventuring in our own backyards, playing in the woods -- [takes mask off -- oops, Iâ?Tll take that off -- playing in the woods and around ponds in our hometown. 151330 A beach day for my family was a swim in Boston Harbor. And at that point in time, it meant coming out of the water with oil and other things stuck to our skin. So, we'd have to dry and clean ourselves all at the same time. Well, that was back in the â?~60s before the first Earth Day, but we managed. And Boston Harbor today is terrific. But all I can think of is back when I was in grammar school and the nuns used to jump up and say, run, close the windows in your classrooms because when the rubber factory across the street started to spew chemical stenches into the air, it would come wafting into our classroom. 151420 And that smell kept us from recess more days than I or my teacher ever cared to remember. So, I figured out early that there was just an intrinsic connection between our environment and our health. And that understanding drew me into a very long career of public service, which I will never regret and always cherish. And I did it because I was trying to help families and communities just like mine and those who are facing certainly much deeper and more insidious legacies of environmental harm so they could overcome the challenges that were holding them back. 151502 Environmental protection is part of my moral fiber. It's what I live for. And I'm proud of the progress that we've made across the United States, and Iâ?Tm proud of the work that I did for many years at local and state governments, as well as at EPA to make sure our air and water looks cleaner, to make communities safer and more livable, and begin to confront the crisis of climate change. And I'm here today because climate change is not only a threat to the planet. 151538 It is a threat to our health and our well being. It's a threat to people everywhere and the precious natural resources that we depend on. Defeating this threat is the fight of our lifetimes, and our success will require the engagement of every community, every sector in our nation, and every country in the world. But the opportunities to act on climate change right now fill me with incredible optimism, with hope, with energy, and excitement. 151616 We not only have the responsibility to meet this moment together. We have the capacity to meet this moment together. The President-Elect has put together the strongest climate plan ever raised to this level of leadership. It rises to the incredible moment of opportunity we have to build back better for our health, for jobs, and for communities that have been systematically disadvantaged for years. 151650 It will be my incredible honor to help turn this plan into promises kept by marshaling every part of our government, working directly with communities, and harnessing the force of science and the values of environmental justice, to build a better future for my two, very soon to be three little grandchildren, and for generations of Americans to come. 151724 So thank you for this opportunity to help put Americans back to work in innovative, good-paying clean energy jobs to improve the health of our communities and to help clear the path for people in every hometown in America to live brighter, cleaner, and more vibrant lives. Thank you. ALI ZAIDI 151809 ZAIDI>> Thank you, President-Elect Biden and Vice President-Elect Harris. I am deeply honored to answer your call to serve this nation that I love, especially at this moment of consequence. For our planet and for the people who live here, the peril of the climate crisis is already evident. 151834 But we can also see the promise in the jobs casting and machining, installing and rewiring, pouring new foundations and building new industries, and in the possibility of repairing communities hurt, places where pollution has been heavy and opportunity has never quite reached. 151905 Mr. President-Elect and Madam Vice President-Elect, you campaigned on delivering that promise by mounting a response equal to the existential threat that we face, not only by listening to the science but also by invigorating the economy, revving up manufacturing and innovation, spurring good-paying union jobs and advancing justice long overdue, leading by the example of America at its best. 151944 When my parents moved from Pakistan to Pennsylvania, they brought two little kids and a few suitcases of dreams, dreams their kids are living today. Danish, my brother, a doctor on the front lines of the covid crisis and me, moving to the front lines of the fight against climate change. 152013 To be healthy, to have purpose, to be able to give back -- that is how our parents taught us to define the American dream. I am so grateful to be serving alongside the team you have assembled. Grateful for Gina McCarthy, my guide and my good friend, for the incredible and inspiring leaders on this stage, and for those with whom we'll partner all across your administration. 152050 This has been a trying year for all Americans, marked by so much loss. But throughout, you, sir, have been there for us. And when the pandemic hit closer to home, you were there for me. Mr. President-Elect, that is who you are: a person of faith and family, of decency and goodness. 152126 Your leadership gives me hope. My students, scientists imagining and inventing, they give me hope. Young organizers mobilizing and advocating, they give me hope and, together, I know we will meet this moment. Thank you and god bless you. KAMALA HARRIS 152215 HARRIS>> Good afternoon. A few months ago, as wildfires raged across the West, I traveled home to California. What I saw on that trip, and so many others in recent years, was heartbreaking -- charred playgrounds, homes and neighborhoods in ashes, firefighters battling fires while their own homes burned to the ground. 152242 My brother-in-law is actually a firefighter in California as well. Some of the most toxic air anywhere in the world. Two years ago, in 2018, when I visited communities like Paradise, California that had been devastated by wildfires, that year's fire season was considered the worst in California's history. This fire season was even worse, the worst in California's history and America's history. 152313 And of course, fires are only one symptom of our growing climate crisis. In recent years, families across the Midwest have experienced historic flooding, while families all along our coast have endured some of the most active hurricane seasons on record. They only name a storm if it's particularly dangerous. This year, we had more named storms than ever before. 152343 Our climate crisis is not a partisan issue, and it is not a hoax. It is an existential threat to all of us, particularly poor communities and communities of color who bear the greatest risks from polluted air, polluted water, and a failing infrastructure. 152410 Many years ago, 15 years ago when I was District Attorney in San Francisco, I created the first Environmental Justice unit in the city, and it was one of the first in our country because I believed then, as I do now, everyone has a right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. And of course, so does our President-Elect Biden. 152433 Part of the reason I was so proud to join Joe Biden as his running mate was because he was proposing one of the most ambitious climate plans in history, a plan to secure carbon pollution free electricity by 2035, a plan to achieve net-zero emissions no later than 2050, a plan to invest in a clean energy future and create millions of good-paying union jobs along the way. 152506 And the team that President-Elect Biden and I are announcing today will help make that plan a reality. 152514 These are some of our country's most seasoned public servants and climate experts. They have experience mastering the most effective ways to get things done when it comes to climate change. They recognize the importance of bringing together the private sector and organized labor, together with government, to meet these challenges and to confront this crisis head on with our allies and partners around the world. 152544 And they are compassionate leaders who understand that, ultimately, addressing climate change is about building safer communities and healthier communities and thriving communities for all Americans. These public servants reflect the very best of America, and they are the team we need to meet this urgent challenge. 152612 In his 2015 encyclical, the holy father Pope Francis wrote, quote, â?ohumanity still has the ability to work together in building our common home.â?? Starting on January 20th, we will work to heed those words, and come together here in our country and around the world to build and protect our common home for generations to come. 152644 Thank you, Mr. President-Elect, for this day. Thank you. #####

WASH 8 PEOTUS BIDEN INTRODUCES KEY MEMERS OF CLIMATE TEAM CUTS President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris rolled out newly announced members of their climate team Saturday afternoon in Wilmington, DE, but ignored a mix of shouted question as he was leaving the stage, including if he thought Russia was behind the recent cyber attack and if the hack was an act of war, if he would complete his cabinet next week, and if he would support appointing a special prosecutor to oversee the investigation of his son, Hunter. [HAALAND] Rep. Deb Haaland set the tone for the event, becoming emotional as she accepted her hisotric nomination to be Interior Secretary. If confirmed, she would become the first Native American cabinet secretary, and would be the first Native person to oversee federal lands in American history. She choked up when she said â?oI am honored and humbled to accept their nomination for secretary of the interior.â?? 145425 She noted she was standing on ancestral land of the Lenape tribal nation, and expressed that growing up in a Pueblo home made her â?oFierce.â?? She noted just how remarkable her nomination is, given the history of the department: â?oThis moment is profound when we consider the fact that a former Secretary of the Interior once proclaimed his goal to, quote, â?ocivilize or exterminate us.â?? I'm a living testament to the failure of that horrific ideology. I also stand on the shoulders of my ancestors and all the people who have sacrificed so that I can be here,â?? Haaland said (14:54:58) Biden praised Haaland for taking on the historic role, and her particular ability to help strengthen relations between the U.S. and tribal nations. â?oWith her appointment, Congresswoman Haaland will help me strengthen the nation-to-nation relationship, and Iâ?Tm honored to accept that sheâ?Ts been willing, when I called her, to accept this critical role. Again, Deb, thank you for doing this,â?? Biden said. (14:44:25) [DIVERSITY] Haaland was not the only history-making nominee introduced today, and Biden touted the diversity of the cabinet: â?oToday, the announcement we will make this -- the sixth African-American, the sixth of African-American members of our cabinet which is a record. After today, our cabinet wonâ?Tt just be one of or two precedent breaking appointments but 12, including today's long overdue appointment of the first Native American cabinet secretary. And welcome, welcome, welcome. Thanks for being willing to do this,â?? Biden said. (14:34:43) â?oAlready, there are more people of color in our cabinet than any cabinet ever, more women than ever. The Biden-Harris cabinet, it will be historic -- the cabinet that looks like America, that taps into the best of America, that opens doors and includes the full range of talents we have in this nation.â?? Biden added. (14:35:10) [GRANHOLM] Biden complimented former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm on her work to bail out the auto industry, saying â?oshe bet on the promise of a clean energy future,â?? saying the two have become friends over time and he hopes she can bring her â?ohard working, resilient, and forward thinking qualitiesâ?? to the Department of Energy. (Notably, Biden did not mention Energyâ?Ts purview over nuclear matters, an area Granholm has less experience dealing with). Granholm pledged that millions of jobs would be created by the green energy revolution, preaching the importance of building those products in American. â?oOver the next two decades, countries and companies are going to invest trillions -- trillions, not just billions, trillions -- in electric cars and batteries and wind turbines and solar panels and energy efficient appliances and energy efficient buildings. They're going to upgrade their electric grids using smart technology. Millions of good-paying jobs are going to be created, millions. But where? Where will those jobs be? (14:59:28) Are they going to be in China or in the other countries that are fighting tooth and nail to corner the market on this hopeful electric and clean energy future? Or are they -- those jobs going to be here in America? The path to building back better starting with building and manufacturing and deploying those products here, stamping them â?oMade in America,â?? and exporting them around the world,â?? Biden said. (14:59:58) The former governor noted her immigrant roots from Canada, and spoke personally of her own familyâ?Ts struggle to find opportunity--which she said fueled her desire to create opportunities for other. And it's because of my family's journey and my experience in fighting for hard working Michigan families that I have become obsessed -- obsessed with creating good-paying jobs in America in a global economy, obsessed with seizing the opportunities that a clean energy future will provide for American workers. So we can stand on the sidelines and let other countries beat us to these opportunities, or we can get in the game,â?? (15:02:43) [REGAN] Biden then turned to his EPA chief, Michael Regan, the first African American man to hold the position, and heralded him as someone who would â?oreassertâ?? the EPA as â?othe worldâ?Ts premier agency.â?? Regan noted the actualization of his lifelong dream to work for the EPA, pledging that he would protect families and communities in an effort to make the world cleaner and healthier. â?oSo this opportunity, well, it's a dream come true. Since the start of my career, my goals have been the same: to safeguard our natural resources, to improve the quality of our air and our water, to protect our families and our communities and to help them seize the opportunities of a cleaner healthier world. Now, I'm honored to pursue those goals alongside leaders who understand what's at stake,â?? Regan said. (15:05:43) He discussed his health challenges as a youth talking about how it inspired him to focus his career on environmental issues. â?oI developed a deep love and respect for the outdoors and our natural resources, but I also experienced respiratory issues that required me to use an inhaler on days when pollutants and allergens were especially bad. I've always been curious about the connections between our environment and our health,â?? Regan said. (15:04:45) [OTHER ROLES] Biden also nominated Brenda Malloy as chair of the Council on Environmental Quality. She would also be the first African American person to hold that position. Malloy at the beginning of her remarks called Harris Madam President-elect, which she quickly corrected. Biden said his decision to ask former EPA administrator Gina McCarthy as the Domestic Climate Czar shows how serious he is about climate, by choosing someone who has â?oforgotten more about climate than most people know.â?? When Biden joked that he â?oused to drive her crazy asking her questions,â?? McCarthy nodded and laughed in agreement. (14:51:18) McCarthy noted her thick Boston accent and roots, and recalled how her childhood there taught her the importance of health and environment, leading to a â?ocherishedâ?? life of public service. McCarthy expressed her optimism about the ability to impact change, quoting Bidenâ?Ts â?~Build Back betterâ?T plan and seemed to play on Bidenâ?Ts memoirâ?Ts title, â?opromises to keep,â?? noting Bidenâ?Ts plan would be a â?~promise kept.â?T Biden again mispronounced yet another name, this time it was Ali Zaidi which he acknowledged during his remarks, which drew laughs from Bidenâ?Ts other picks. â?oI appoint Ali Zandi -- Zaidi, excuse me. And Ali, you can be â?oBidden.â?? If I mispronounced your last name, I apologize. [laughter] He served as the top -- top climate adviser to President Obama and me in the Office of Management and Budget and the Domestic Policy Council. He helped draft and implement our Climate Action Plan and secure the Paris Climate Agreement,â?? Biden said. (14:51:45) Zaidi noted his immigrant roots, moving as a child from Pakistan to Pennsylvania, and praised Biden for his leadership during the trying year. [HARRIS] Harris spoke about the growing threat of climate change across the country, noting â?oOur climate crisis is not a partisan issue, and it is not a hoax.â?? Harris said that part of the reason she was so excited to join a Biden administration was because of his climate change plan. â?oPart of the reason I was so proud to join Joe Biden as his running mate was because he was proposing one of the most ambitious climate plans in history. A plan to secure carbon pollution free electricity by 2035, a plan to achieve net zero emissions no later than 2050. A plan to invest in a clean energy future and create millions of good-paying union jobs along the way. And the team that President-Elect Biden and I are announcing today will help make that plan a reality,â?? Harris said. (15:24:55) [CLIMATE CHANGE] Climate change was one of the four crises Biden continually outlined during the campaign, and he laid out the climate challenge before him with examples of the destruction weâ?Tve seen just this year, saying â?oitâ?Ts not just the pandemic that keeps people inside, itâ?Ts poor air quality,â?? in addition to wildfires, hurricanes, and other disasters: â?oJust this year, wildfires burned more than 5 million acres in California and Washington state. Across the West, theyâ?Tre roughly the size of the entire state of New Jersey -- literally burned to the ground. Intense and powerful hurricanes, tropical storms pummelled Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina, across the Gulf along the East coast. Record floods, hurricane speed, wind storms and severe droughts ravaged the Midwest and more Americans see and feel the devastation in big cities, small towns, on coastlines and in farm lands, in red states and in blue,â?? Biden said. (14:35:32) Biden pledged that his plan would create 1 Million jobs in the auto industry, and would move the U.S. to a carbon neutral by the year 2030, and pointed to the Obama-Biden administration as a guide for how to take such bold action. Biden added that his administration would help to build 1.5 million energy efficient homes, and work to address environmental injustice across the country. FULL LOG BELOW (VIA WASH 6, HEAD ON POOL): 143353 BIDEN>> Good afternoon. I was a little late because I was explaining to these distinguished nominees that it seems inappropriate for me to ask them to come all the way to Wilmington, Delaware, and then Iâ?Tm not able to invite them to my home and show any hospitality but hopefully, we're gonna get through this -- this crisis sooner than later and we can get back, we can get back to normal. 143419 Let me begin by saying good afternoon. Today, I'm pleased to announce a team that will lead my administration's ambitious plan to address the existential threat of our time, climate change. [clears throat] Excuse me. Like other fellow cabinet nominees and appointees, members of our Environmental & Energy team are brilliant, theyâ?Tre qualified, tested and they are barrier-busting. 143443 Today, the announcement we will make this -- the sixth African-American, the sixth of African-American members of our cabinet which is a record. After today, our cabinet wonâ?Tt just be one of or two precedent breaking appointments but 12, including today's long overdue appointment of the first Native American cabinet secretary. And welcome, welcome, welcome. Thanks for being willing to do this. 143510 Already, there are more people of color in our cabinet than any cabinet ever, more women than ever. The Biden-Harris cabinet, it will be historic -- the cabinet that looks like America, that taps into the best of America, that opens doors and includes the full range of talents we have in this nation. 143530 And like the rest of the team, today's nominees are ready on day one, which is essential because we literally have no time to waste. Just this year, wildfires burned more than 5 million acres in California and Washington state. Across the West, theyâ?Tre roughly the size of the entire state of New Jersey -- literally burned to the ground. Intense and powerful hurricanes, tropical storms pummelled Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina, across the Gulf along the East coast. 143606 Record floods, hurricane speed, wind storms and severe droughts ravaged the Midwest and more Americans see and feel the devastation in big cities, small towns, on coastlines and in farm lands, in red states and in blue. Look, billions of dollars in damage, homes and memories washed away, small businesses closed for good, crops and farmlands destroyed for the next generation of family farmers. 143639 And just last year, the Defense department reported that climate change is a direct threat to more than two-thirds of our military operational (?) critical installations in the world, particularly in the United States. And this could well be a conservative estimate. And so many climate and health calamities are colliding all at once. It's not just a pandemic that keeps people inside, it's poor air quality. 143705 Multiple studies have shown air pollution is associated with the increased risk of death from Covid-19. Folks, we're in a crisis. Just like we need to be a unified nation in response to covid-19, we need a unified national response to climate change. We need to meet the moment with the urgency it demands, as we would during any national emergency. And from this crisis -- from these crises, I should say, we need to seize the opportunity to build back, and build back better than we were before. 143740 That's what this administration is going to do with the help of these fine people. You know, when we think about climate change, we think jobs, good paying union jobs. A key plank of our Build Back Better economy and economic plan is building a modern, climate resistant infrastructure and a clean energy future. We can put millions of Americans to work modernizing water, transportation and energy infrastructure to withstand the impacts of extreme weather. 143811 When we think about renewable energy, we see American manufacturers, American workers racing to lead the global market. We see farmers making agriculture first in the world to achieve net-zero emissions, and gaining new sources of income in the process on the farm (?). And we see small businesses and master-electricians designing and installing innovative, energy conserving buildings and gomes. Weâ?Tre gonna reduce electric consumption and save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in energy costs. 143845 And we will challenge everyone, everyone, to step up. And we'll bring America back -- back into the Paris agreement, and put us back in the business of leading the world on climate change again. The current administration reversed the Obama-Biden fuel efficiency standards, and picked big oil companies over American workers. Our administration will not only bring those standards back, we will set new ambitious standards that our workers are ready to meet today. 143916 We see American workers building and installing over 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations across this country. We see American consumers switching to electrical vehicles through rebates and incentives. And not only that, the federal government owns and maintains an enormous fleet of vehicles. Weâ?Tre gonna harness the purchasing power of our federal government to make sure weâ?Tre buying clean electric vehicles that are made and sourced by union workers right here in America. 143946 Altogether, this will mean one million, one million new jobs in the American auto industry. And weâ?Tll do another big thing, put us on a path of achieving a carbon pollution free, electric energy sector by the year 2035 that no future president can turn back. Transforming the American electric sector to produce power without carbon pollution will be the greatest spur to job creation and economic competitiveness in the 21st century, not to mention the benefits to our health and our environment. 144023 But we need to get to work. We gotta get to work right away. Weâ?Tll need scientists at national labs, land grant universities, historically black colleges and universities to innovate the technologies needed to generate, store and transmit this clean energy. Weâ?Tll need engineers to design them, workers to manufacture them. Weâ?Tll need iron workers and welders to install them. That's how we're going to become the world's largest exporter of these technologies, creating even more jobs. 144053 We know how to do this. The Obama-Biden administration reduced the auto industry and -- excuse me, I should say (?), rescued the automobile industry while reducing pollution. And at the same time, helped them retool. We made solar energy costs competitive with traditional energy, weatherized more than a million homes. The Recovery Act made record clean energy investments, $90 billion on everything from smart grid systems to clean energy manufacturing. 144124 And we're going to do it again but this time, bigger, faster, and better than before. We're also going to build 1.5 million new energy efficient homes and public housing units that will benefit our communities three times over, by alleviating the affordable housing crisis, by increasing energy efficiency and by reducing the racial wealth gap linked to homeownership. 144150 We're going to create more than a quarter million jobs right away to do things like working toward plugging the 3,200,000 abandoned oil and gas wells that the EPA says pose an ongoing threat to the health and safety of our communities. They're going to be good-paying union jobs doing that. We're going to launch a new, modern day civilian climate corp to heal our public lands and make us less vulnerable to wildfires and floods. And I believe that every American has a fundamental right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. 144228 But I know that we haven't fulfilled that right. No, we haven't fulfilled that right for a generation or more in places like Cancer Alley in Louisiana or right here in my state, along route 9, on the Delaware Corridor. Fulfilling this basic obligation to all Americans -- especially to low income, white, Black, Brown and Native American communities who too often don't have the clean air and clean water. And it's not going to be easy, but it's absolutely necessary. 144258 And we're committed to facing -- weâ?Tre committed to climate change by delivering environmental justice. These aren't pie in the sky dreams. These are concrete, actionable solutions and the team is going to get it done. For the Secretary of Interior, I nominate Congresswoman Deb Haaland. Sheâ?Ts of the Pueblo people, only 35 generations in New Mexico, and sheâ?Ts from a military family. 144326 Her mom, also Pueblo, served in the United States Navy. Her dad, a Norwegian American, a Marine, now buried in Arlington. A single mom, she raised her child while running a small business. When times were tough, they relied on food stamps. Congresswoman Haaland graduated from law school, and then got involved in politics and public life. 144349 Two years ago, she became one of the first Native American women to serve in the United States Congress. She serves on the Armed Services Committee and the Committee on Natural Resources, and chairs the subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands, which I have an incredibly sincere interest in, where she learned -- she learned and she earned the respect of a broad coalition of people from tribal leaders to environmental groups to labor. 144418 As the first Native American Cabinet Secretary in the history of the United States of America, she'll be a true steward of our National Parks, our natural resources and all of our lands. The federal government has long broken promises to Native American tribes who have been on this land since time immemorial. With her appointment, Congresswoman Haaland will help me strengthen the nation-to-nation relationship, and Iâ?Tm honored to accept that sheâ?Ts been willing, when I called her, to accept this critical role. Again, Deb, thank you for doing this. 144452 For Secretary of Energy, I nominate Governor Jennifer Granholm, first woman -- where's Jennifer? Back there. She's a great friend as well. First woman to ever serve as Governor of Michigan. In 2009, she faced the collapse of the defining industry of her state and our nation, but I saw firsthand how she responded. She bet on the auto-workers. She bet on the promise of a clean energy future. 144524 Her leadership helped rescue the automobile industry in the United States of America, helped save a million American jobs, and helped bring Detroit back. Governor Granholm is just like the state she's led to efficiently and effectively for eight years: hard working, resilient, and forward thinking, someone not only capable of solving urgent problems but someone who sees the opportunities of the future and always, always has their eyes on needs and aspirations of working people. 144553 Weâ?Tve become friends over time. Together, throughout her career, sheâ?Ts worked with states, cities, business and labor to promote a clean energy future with new jobs, new industry, cleaner and more affordable energy. Now, I'm asking her to bring that vision and faith in America to the Department of Energy. And thank you for being willing to do it, Jennifer. I appreciate it a bunch. 144618 For Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, I nominate Michael Regan. Michael is a proud son of North Carolina. He turned a passion for exploring the woods and waters and intercoastal plain into a deep expertise on environmental science. He got his start at the EPA serving, and with both Democrat and Republican administrations, working in everything from reducing air pollution to improving energy efficiency. He currently serves as Secretary of North Carolina's Department of Environmental Quality. 144652 When the Governor told me how wonderful he was, I don't think he expected I was going to try to steal him but, Governor, thank you very much for putting up with me. But the Environmental Quality he's brought to the people across the public and private and non-profit sectors to help build new, clean energy economy, creating quality jobs and confronting climate change, he led the charge to clean up the Cape Fear river, contaminated for years by dangerous toxic chemicals. 144721 He created North Carolina's first board of its kind to address environmental justice and equality and equity. Itâ?Ts helped lift up front line -- front line and fence line communities that are those communities that live along, that literally have fences separating them from the plants that are polluting with chemicals and other plants that are polluting. It helps lift up those front line and fence communities that carried the burdens of industrial progress for much too long, without sharing in any of the benefits. 144753 Michael would be the second African-American official and the first African-American man to serve in this position. He shares my belief in forming consensus and finding common purpose. He's a leader who will respect the EPA's place as the world's premier -- premier Environmental Protection Agency, and reassert that as the world premier agency that safeguards our entire planet, protects our lives and strengthens our economy for all Americans. 144823 And to chair the Council on Environmental Quality, I nominate Brenda Malloy, an accomplished public servant, a brilliant environmental lawyer, daughter of a working class family who has dedicated her life to solving the most complex environmental challenges facing America. Sheâ?Ts served in both Democratic and Republican administrations, helping safeguard our public lands, helping -- helping communities manage their natural resources and responsibilities. 144853 Chair of -- chair of CEO, Council on Economic Quality, Iâ?Tm asking her to coordinate our environmental efforts across the entire federal government to solve some of the most persistent environmental problems America faces today. Brenda would be the first African-American official to hold this critical position. We are fortunate that one of the most widely respected environmental leaders in the country accepted the call to serve again. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 144923 To serve as the first ever National Climate Adviser -- By the way, when we were in the back, we were talking about the environment, and I turned and said that this particular person's forgotten more about the environment than most people know. I was really -- I wasn't sure she was going to do it, but the first climate adviser lead the newly former -- to lead the newly formed White House Office of Domestic Policy, I'm appointing Gina McCarthy. 144952 Gina was the former EPA administrator. In this role, she led the office, and it shows how serious I am to ask her to come back, and it shows how committed she is to be willing to come back. Ginaâ?Ts got more than 20 years of experience, and she's a policy wonk and a people person, a problem solver and coalition builder. As EPA Administrator, she was instrumental in carrying out the Obama-Biden Climate Action plan, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, getting toxins out of the air we breathe, conserving critical water sources. 145026 She led our effort to help lower carbon emissions of existing power plants and power plants of the future. And by doing the necessary work here at home, she helped us rally the world around the Paris Climate Accords. Today, I'm asking her to take a singular focus on carrying out the ambitious climate agenda here at home and working with my special envoy, former secretary of state John Kerry, who leads our climate effort around the world. 145056 And I'm grateful, Iâ?Tm grateful that she agreed to do it. I'm looking forward to working alongside her again. I used to drive her crazy when I was Vice President, always calling and asking all these questions. And she's thinking, â?omy god, what's he going to do as president?â?? But -- [laughs] And to serve -- to serve as our National Climate Adviser, 145118 I appoint Ali Zandi -- Zaidi, excuse me. And Ali, you can be â?oBidden.â?? If I mispronounced your last name, I apologize. [laughter] He served as the top -- top climate adviser to President Obama and me in the Office of Management and Budget and the Domestic Policy Council. He helped draft and implement our Climate Action Plan and secure the Paris Climate Agreement. 145145 He currently serves as New York Deputy Secretary of Energy and Environment, and the state's chairman of Climate Policy and Finance. He's helping to create jobs generating solar and wind power, jobs building electric charging stations and a more modern grid with (?) bold climate action grounded in science, economic and public health. And he's an immigrant -- heâ?Ts an immigrant from Pakistan who grew up in the rust belt outside of Erie, Pennsylvania. 145212 I was from the better part of the state, the northeast. You know where -- Scranton and Pittsburgh area. You know, but all kidding aside, he knows -- he knows we can beat the climate crisis and we can do it with jobs. He knows we can deliver environmental justice and revitalize communities as well, too often overlooked and forgotten. And every day, heâ?Tll walk into the White House knowing the world is looking for America to lead. 145239 I say to each one of you: thank you for answering the call. And thank you to your families. We couldnâ?Tt do this without them, we couldn't do it without you. To career civil services at the agencies, I know that many of you have felt forgotten for a long time. We look forward to working with you to once again carrying out your department's mission and honor the integrity of the offices at the organization you're involved in. 145305 And to the American people: yes, the goals I've laid out are bold. The challenges ahead are daunting, but I want you to know that we can do this. We must do this, and we will do this. We are America. There's nothing we can't do when we do it together. So I say again to all of you: god bless you all, may god protect our troops. And now, I'm going to turn this to the team, starting with our next Secretary of Interior, congresswoman Deb Haaland. Deb, the floor is yours once they clean (?) off -- [inaud] DEB HAALAND 145407 HAALAND>> Thank you. Thank you. I'm proud to stand here on the ancestral homelands of the Lenape tribal nation. The President-Elect and Vice President-Elect are committed to a diverse cabinet, and Iâ?Tm honored and humbled to accept their nomination for Secretary of the Interior. [tearing up] Growing up in my mother's Puebla household made me fierce. 145432 My life has not been easy. I struggled with homelessness. I relied on food stamps, and raised my child as a single mom. These struggles give me perspectives, though, so that I can help people to succeed. My grandparents who were taken away from their families as children and sent to boarding school, in an effort to destroy their traditions and identities, maintained our culture. 145458 This moment is profound when we consider the fact that a former Secretary of the Interior once proclaimed his goal to, quote, â?ocivilize or exterminate us.â?? I'm a living testament to the failure of that horrific ideology. I also stand on the shoulders of my ancestors and all the people who have sacrificed so that I can be here. 145523 My dad was a U.S. Marine and, no matter where we were stationed, he made sure we spent time outdoors. Time with my dad in the mountains or on the beach, and time with my grandparents in the cornfield at Laguna taught me to respect the Earth and to value our resources. I carry those values with me everywhere. I'm a product of their resilience. 145547 As our country faces the impacts of climate change and environmental injustice, the Interior Department has a role to address these challenges. The President-Elect's goals, driven by justice and empowering communities who have shouldered the burdens of environmental negligence, and we will ensure that the decisions at Interior will once again be driven by science. 145615 We know that climate change can only be solved with participation of every department and of every community. Coming together in a common purpose, this country can and will tackle this challenge. The President Elect and Vice President-Elect know that issues under Interiorâ?Ts jurisdiction aren't simply about conservation. They're woven in with justice, good jobs, and closing the racial wealth and health gaps. 145647 This historic moment will not go by without the acknowledgement of the many people who have believed in me over the years and had the confidence in me for this position. I'll be fierce for all of us, for our planet and all of our protected land, and I'm honored and ready to serve. Thank you again. JENNIFER GRANHOLM 145732 GRANHOLM>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you for your confidence. I bring my gratitude and that of the loves of my life, my husband and best friend and partner, Dan Mulhurn, glorious children and their equally magnificent spouses, Connor and Alexis, Cece and Damian, and Jack. 145802 My commitment to clean energy was forged in the fire. I was the governor of Michigan, as the President-Elect said, during the great recession when it struck and pushed our auto industry, which is the life blood of Michigan, to the brink of utter collapse. Workers were losing their jobs through no fault of their own, banks wouldn't lend, people were losing their houses. Our unemployment rate in Michigan was 15%. In Detroit, it was 28%. 145839 But then, thankfully, as now, help was on the way. Joe Biden and the Obama administration worked with us to rescue the auto industry and the million jobs that are attached to it. They worked with us to retool and electrify Detroit for the future, of course, and to diversify Michigan's economy on the premise of this promising future in clean energy. So, today, in the midst of another harrowing crisis, clean energy remains among the most promising jobs and economic growth sector in the world. 145928 Over the next two decades, countries and companies are going to invest trillions -- trillions, not just billions, trillions -- in electric cars and batteries and wind turbines and solar panels and energy efficient appliances and energy efficient buildings. They're going to upgrade their electric grids using smart technology. Millions of good-paying jobs are going to be created, millions. But where? Where will those jobs be? 145958 Are they going to be in China or in the other countries that are fighting tooth and nail to corner the market on this hopeful electric and clean energy future? Or are they -- those jobs going to be here in America? The path to building back better starting with building and manufacturing and deploying those products here, stamping them â?oMade in America,â?? and exporting them around the world. 150030 We can win those jobs for American workers with the right policy. We can. And I-- I know what those jobs will mean for both the planet and for those workers and families. I'm proud to have been a U.S. citizen now for 40 years, but I arrived here as a Canadian immigrant at age 4, brought by parents seeking opportunity. My mom is a funny and fierce Irish Welsh Newfi, Newfoundland, which is a Canadian province off the east coast, a fishing province they call â?othe rock.â?? 150116 And like many women in her generation, she didn't go to college. She married a great man, my dad, who passed away earlier this year of a cerebral hemorrhage. My dad was born in rural Canada in a log cabin with no running water and extreme poverty. His father, my grandfather emigrated to Canada when -- from Sweden, during the great depression. Again, seeking opportunity. But when my grandfather could not find a job to support his young family, in desperation, my grandfather shot himself, leaving my grandmother and three young children in dire poverty. 150208 My father was 3 years old when that happened. And when he was 11, my dad found work at a sawmill, and he never stopped working. He married my mom. They came to America for work. And despite not having a college degree, my hard working, gentle father got the fair chance that he was looking for in America. He had started out as a bank teller, and he retired as head of the bank. 150243 And it's because of my family's journey and my experience in fighting for hard working Michigan families that I have become obsessed -- obsessed with creating good-paying jobs in America in a global economy, obsessed with seizing the opportunities that a clean energy future will provide for American workers. So we can stand on the sidelines and let other countries beat us to these opportunities, or we can get in the game. 150317 And I am so ready and honored, Coach, that you are putting me on the field with this amazing team to help create those jobs in every pocket of this country and, especially, in the hardest hit places and for the people who are still waiting on the fair chance that they need. Thank you for tapping me to work on their behalf. MICHAEL REGAN 150410 REGAN>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you for this opportunity. Growing up as a child, hunting and fishing with my father and grandfather in eastern north Carolina, 150424 I developed a deep love and respect for the outdoors and our natural resources, but I also experienced respiratory issues that required me to use an inhaler on days when pollutants and allergens were especially bad. I've always been curious about the connections between our environment and our health. 150445 How the world around us contributes to or detracts from our enjoyment of life. So after completing my education in environmental science, there was one place in particular that I wanted to work: the EPA. When I started that first summer internship, I never imagined that one day, I would be nominated to lead an agency as its administrator. 150513 So this opportunity, well, it's a dream come true. Since the start of my career, my goals have been the same: to safeguard our natural resources, to improve the quality of our air and our water, to protect our families and our communities and to help them seize the opportunities of a cleaner healthier world. Now, I'm honored to pursue those goals alongside leaders who understand what's at stake. 150543 When President-Elect Biden called out the plight of the fence line communities during the campaign, he made it clear that we would no longer just deal with the issues up to the fence line of these facilities, but that we would actually see the people on the other side of those fence lines. He's already backed up that commitment by assembling a team that reflects America, and I'm proud to join the Vice President-Elect as a fellow HBCU graduate in this administration. 150616 Together, this team will ensure that environmental justice and human impacts are top of mind as we tackle these tough issues. After nearly a decade at the EPA, I know firsthand the remarkable dedication and talent of those career staff. And as a state official, I understand how actions from EPA can help or hurt local efforts. We're going to ensure that EPA is once again a strong partner for the states, not a roadblock. 150650 We will be driven by our convictions, that every person in our great country has the right to clean air, clean water and a healthier life, no matter how much money they have in their pockets, the color of their skin or the community that they live in. We will move with a sense of urgency on climate change, protecting our drinking water, and enact an environmental justice framework that empowers people in all communities. 150720 But we also know that these challenges can't be solved by regulation alone. And we also know that environmental protection and economic prosperity, well theyâ?Tre not mutually exclusive. They go hand in hand. We need an all hands on deck approach from industry to individuals, finding common ground to build back better for workers, for our communities, for our economy, and yes, for our planet. And that's what we'll pursue together. I look forward to continuing this work on behalf of the American people, so thank you. BRENDA MALLORY 150825 MALLORY>> Good afternoon. Mr. President-Elect, Madam President Elect -- Madam Vice President-Elect, I am honored and humbled by the trust youâ?Tve placed in me and I look forward to getting to work with this incredible team. 150841 I'm especially grateful for the chance to return to public service at a time when agency personnel are looking for optimism, and so many communities are struggling under thedr weight of persistent interwoven crises. I know firsthand the challenges that everyday people face when one unexpected illness or expense can upend the economic stability of a family. 150911 I grew up in the working class community of Waterbury, Connecticut, a town not so different from Scranton, Pennsylvania. I know the faces of the marginalized, and I appreciate the challenges of urban pollution. While the words â?oclimate changeâ?? and â?oenvironmental injusticeâ?? were not part of the vernacular back then, the evidence of their impact was all around. In that setting, there was plenty of opportunity to work to make a difference in people's lives. 150944 For my parents and particularly, my father, dedication to tackling community challenges was vitally important. Service, in all its forms, was essential. They taught me to be a problem-solver, to recognize that each of us is blessed with different talents and we are all called to bring those gifts to bear in whatever -- wherever we are, to work with anyone and everyone to make things better in communities that we share. 151018 This has been the driving force and the guiding principle of my journey. I earned a high school scholarship that changed the course of my life. I became the first person in my family to go to college. I attended law school. And at each stage, I was aware of how different the world I came from was from the one I was entering. I didn't set out to specialize in environmental issues, but once I started, I was always mindful of the practical implications of the decisions. 151050 As a staffer at the Connecticut Commission on human rights, I learned that environmental protection and ensuring the health and well being of all communities had to be reconciled. It is essential that we deploy smart and human policy -- humane policy to help communities pull themselves back from the edge and improve the health, security and prosperity of their -- of all people. 151117 The Build Back Better plan is poised to breathe new life into the Council on Environmental Quality. CEQ will work with a broad range of partners on a broad range of issues, tackle the full breadth of climate change, preserve the natural treasures of our nation, center environmental justice, and help more communities overcome legacy environmental impacts. 151146 I am grateful to the President-Elect and Vice President-Elect for elevating this work and lifting up the communities where it will make the most difference. Thank you for the opportunity to serve. GINA McCARTHY 151228 McCARTHY>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you so much for this opportunity to serve and to work beside and with this incredibly talented team. You know, the issues I've been taking on in this role are very personal to me, and they have been for as long as I can remember. As keen listeners, you would already have guessed that I grew up in and around the city of Boston. 151258 My dad was a teacher in the Boston school system for more than 40 years, and my mom waitressed at local donut shops. You know, looking back, I guess we were a lower middle class family, but we didn't know it. Instead of expensive vacations, my sisters and I did our adventuring in our own backyards, playing in the woods -- [takes mask off -- oops, Iâ?Tll take that off -- playing in the woods and around ponds in our hometown. 151330 A beach day for my family was a swim in Boston Harbor. And at that point in time, it meant coming out of the water with oil and other things stuck to our skin. So, we'd have to dry and clean ourselves all at the same time. Well, that was back in the â?~60s before the first Earth Day, but we managed. And Boston Harbor today is terrific. But all I can think of is back when I was in grammar school and the nuns used to jump up and say, run, close the windows in your classrooms because when the rubber factory across the street started to spew chemical stenches into the air, it would come wafting into our classroom. 151420 And that smell kept us from recess more days than I or my teacher ever cared to remember. So, I figured out early that there was just an intrinsic connection between our environment and our health. And that understanding drew me into a very long career of public service, which I will never regret and always cherish. And I did it because I was trying to help families and communities just like mine and those who are facing certainly much deeper and more insidious legacies of environmental harm so they could overcome the challenges that were holding them back. 151502 Environmental protection is part of my moral fiber. It's what I live for. And I'm proud of the progress that we've made across the United States, and Iâ?Tm proud of the work that I did for many years at local and state governments, as well as at EPA to make sure our air and water looks cleaner, to make communities safer and more livable, and begin to confront the crisis of climate change. And I'm here today because climate change is not only a threat to the planet. 151538 It is a threat to our health and our well being. It's a threat to people everywhere and the precious natural resources that we depend on. Defeating this threat is the fight of our lifetimes, and our success will require the engagement of every community, every sector in our nation, and every country in the world. But the opportunities to act on climate change right now fill me with incredible optimism, with hope, with energy, and excitement. 151616 We not only have the responsibility to meet this moment together. We have the capacity to meet this moment together. The President-Elect has put together the strongest climate plan ever raised to this level of leadership. It rises to the incredible moment of opportunity we have to build back better for our health, for jobs, and for communities that have been systematically disadvantaged for years. 151650 It will be my incredible honor to help turn this plan into promises kept by marshaling every part of our government, working directly with communities, and harnessing the force of science and the values of environmental justice, to build a better future for my two, very soon to be three little grandchildren, and for generations of Americans to come. 151724 So thank you for this opportunity to help put Americans back to work in innovative, good-paying clean energy jobs to improve the health of our communities and to help clear the path for people in every hometown in America to live brighter, cleaner, and more vibrant lives. Thank you. ALI ZAIDI 151809 ZAIDI>> Thank you, President-Elect Biden and Vice President-Elect Harris. I am deeply honored to answer your call to serve this nation that I love, especially at this moment of consequence. For our planet and for the people who live here, the peril of the climate crisis is already evident. 151834 But we can also see the promise in the jobs casting and machining, installing and rewiring, pouring new foundations and building new industries, and in the possibility of repairing communities hurt, places where pollution has been heavy and opportunity has never quite reached. 151905 Mr. President-Elect and Madam Vice President-Elect, you campaigned on delivering that promise by mounting a response equal to the existential threat that we face, not only by listening to the science but also by invigorating the economy, revving up manufacturing and innovation, spurring good-paying union jobs and advancing justice long overdue, leading by the example of America at its best. 151944 When my parents moved from Pakistan to Pennsylvania, they brought two little kids and a few suitcases of dreams, dreams their kids are living today. Danish, my brother, a doctor on the front lines of the covid crisis and me, moving to the front lines of the fight against climate change. 152013 To be healthy, to have purpose, to be able to give back -- that is how our parents taught us to define the American dream. I am so grateful to be serving alongside the team you have assembled. Grateful for Gina McCarthy, my guide and my good friend, for the incredible and inspiring leaders on this stage, and for those with whom we'll partner all across your administration. 152050 This has been a trying year for all Americans, marked by so much loss. But throughout, you, sir, have been there for us. And when the pandemic hit closer to home, you were there for me. Mr. President-Elect, that is who you are: a person of faith and family, of decency and goodness. 152126 Your leadership gives me hope. My students, scientists imagining and inventing, they give me hope. Young organizers mobilizing and advocating, they give me hope and, together, I know we will meet this moment. Thank you and god bless you. KAMALA HARRIS 152215 HARRIS>> Good afternoon. A few months ago, as wildfires raged across the West, I traveled home to California. What I saw on that trip, and so many others in recent years, was heartbreaking -- charred playgrounds, homes and neighborhoods in ashes, firefighters battling fires while their own homes burned to the ground. 152242 My brother-in-law is actually a firefighter in California as well. Some of the most toxic air anywhere in the world. Two years ago, in 2018, when I visited communities like Paradise, California that had been devastated by wildfires, that year's fire season was considered the worst in California's history. This fire season was even worse, the worst in California's history and America's history. 152313 And of course, fires are only one symptom of our growing climate crisis. In recent years, families across the Midwest have experienced historic flooding, while families all along our coast have endured some of the most active hurricane seasons on record. They only name a storm if it's particularly dangerous. This year, we had more named storms than ever before. 152343 Our climate crisis is not a partisan issue, and it is not a hoax. It is an existential threat to all of us, particularly poor communities and communities of color who bear the greatest risks from polluted air, polluted water, and a failing infrastructure. 152410 Many years ago, 15 years ago when I was District Attorney in San Francisco, I created the first Environmental Justice unit in the city, and it was one of the first in our country because I believed then, as I do now, everyone has a right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. And of course, so does our President-Elect Biden. 152433 Part of the reason I was so proud to join Joe Biden as his running mate was because he was proposing one of the most ambitious climate plans in history, a plan to secure carbon pollution free electricity by 2035, a plan to achieve net-zero emissions no later than 2050, a plan to invest in a clean energy future and create millions of good-paying union jobs along the way. 152506 And the team that President-Elect Biden and I are announcing today will help make that plan a reality. 152514 These are some of our country's most seasoned public servants and climate experts. They have experience mastering the most effective ways to get things done when it comes to climate change. They recognize the importance of bringing together the private sector and organized labor, together with government, to meet these challenges and to confront this crisis head on with our allies and partners around the world. 152544 And they are compassionate leaders who understand that, ultimately, addressing climate change is about building safer communities and healthier communities and thriving communities for all Americans. These public servants reflect the very best of America, and they are the team we need to meet this urgent challenge. 152612 In his 2015 encyclical, the holy father Pope Francis wrote, quote, â?ohumanity still has the ability to work together in building our common home.â?? Starting on January 20th, we will work to heed those words, and come together here in our country and around the world to build and protect our common home for generations to come. 152644 Thank you, Mr. President-Elect, for this day. Thank you. #####

WASH 6 PEOTUS BIDEN INTRODUCES KEY MEMERS OF CLIMATE TEAM HEAD ON President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris rolled out newly announced members of their climate team Saturday afternoon in Wilmington, DE, but ignored a mix of shouted question as he was leaving the stage, including if he thought Russia was behind the recent cyber attack and if the hack was an act of war, if he would complete his cabinet next week, and if he would support appointing a special prosecutor to oversee the investigation of his son, Hunter. [HAALAND] Rep. Deb Haaland set the tone for the event, becoming emotional as she accepted her hisotric nomination to be Interior Secretary. If confirmed, she would become the first Native American cabinet secretary, and would be the first Native person to oversee federal lands in American history. She choked up when she said â?oI am honored and humbled to accept their nomination for secretary of the interior.â?? 145425 She noted she was standing on ancestral land of the Lenape tribal nation, and expressed that growing up in a Pueblo home made her â?oFierce.â?? She noted just how remarkable her nomination is, given the history of the department: â?oThis moment is profound when we consider the fact that a former Secretary of the Interior once proclaimed his goal to, quote, â?ocivilize or exterminate us.â?? I'm a living testament to the failure of that horrific ideology. I also stand on the shoulders of my ancestors and all the people who have sacrificed so that I can be here,â?? Haaland said (14:54:58) Biden praised Haaland for taking on the historic role, and her particular ability to help strengthen relations between the U.S. and tribal nations. â?oWith her appointment, Congresswoman Haaland will help me strengthen the nation-to-nation relationship, and Iâ?Tm honored to accept that sheâ?Ts been willing, when I called her, to accept this critical role. Again, Deb, thank you for doing this,â?? Biden said. (14:44:25) [DIVERSITY] Haaland was not the only history-making nominee introduced today, and Biden touted the diversity of the cabinet: â?oToday, the announcement we will make this -- the sixth African-American, the sixth of African-American members of our cabinet which is a record. After today, our cabinet wonâ?Tt just be one of or two precedent breaking appointments but 12, including today's long overdue appointment of the first Native American cabinet secretary. And welcome, welcome, welcome. Thanks for being willing to do this,â?? Biden said. (14:34:43) â?oAlready, there are more people of color in our cabinet than any cabinet ever, more women than ever. The Biden-Harris cabinet, it will be historic -- the cabinet that looks like America, that taps into the best of America, that opens doors and includes the full range of talents we have in this nation.â?? Biden added. (14:35:10) [GRANHOLM] Biden complimented former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm on her work to bail out the auto industry, saying â?oshe bet on the promise of a clean energy future,â?? saying the two have become friends over time and he hopes she can bring her â?ohard working, resilient, and forward thinking qualitiesâ?? to the Department of Energy. (Notably, Biden did not mention Energyâ?Ts purview over nuclear matters, an area Granholm has less experience dealing with). Granholm pledged that millions of jobs would be created by the green energy revolution, preaching the importance of building those products in American. â?oOver the next two decades, countries and companies are going to invest trillions -- trillions, not just billions, trillions -- in electric cars and batteries and wind turbines and solar panels and energy efficient appliances and energy efficient buildings. They're going to upgrade their electric grids using smart technology. Millions of good-paying jobs are going to be created, millions. But where? Where will those jobs be? (14:59:28) Are they going to be in China or in the other countries that are fighting tooth and nail to corner the market on this hopeful electric and clean energy future? Or are they -- those jobs going to be here in America? The path to building back better starting with building and manufacturing and deploying those products here, stamping them â?oMade in America,â?? and exporting them around the world,â?? Biden said. (14:59:58) The former governor noted her immigrant roots from Canada, and spoke personally of her own familyâ?Ts struggle to find opportunity--which she said fueled her desire to create opportunities for other. And it's because of my family's journey and my experience in fighting for hard working Michigan families that I have become obsessed -- obsessed with creating good-paying jobs in America in a global economy, obsessed with seizing the opportunities that a clean energy future will provide for American workers. So we can stand on the sidelines and let other countries beat us to these opportunities, or we can get in the game,â?? (15:02:43) [REGAN] Biden then turned to his EPA chief, Michael Regan, the first African American man to hold the position, and heralded him as someone who would â?oreassertâ?? the EPA as â?othe worldâ?Ts premier agency.â?? Regan noted the actualization of his lifelong dream to work for the EPA, pledging that he would protect families and communities in an effort to make the world cleaner and healthier. â?oSo this opportunity, well, it's a dream come true. Since the start of my career, my goals have been the same: to safeguard our natural resources, to improve the quality of our air and our water, to protect our families and our communities and to help them seize the opportunities of a cleaner healthier world. Now, I'm honored to pursue those goals alongside leaders who understand what's at stake,â?? Regan said. (15:05:43) He discussed his health challenges as a youth talking about how it inspired him to focus his career on environmental issues. â?oI developed a deep love and respect for the outdoors and our natural resources, but I also experienced respiratory issues that required me to use an inhaler on days when pollutants and allergens were especially bad. I've always been curious about the connections between our environment and our health,â?? Regan said. (15:04:45) [OTHER ROLES] Biden also nominated Brenda Malloy as chair of the Council on Environmental Quality. She would also be the first African American person to hold that position. Malloy at the beginning of her remarks called Harris Madam President-elect, which she quickly corrected. Biden said his decision to ask former EPA administrator Gina McCarthy as the Domestic Climate Czar shows how serious he is about climate, by choosing someone who has â?oforgotten more about climate than most people know.â?? When Biden joked that he â?oused to drive her crazy asking her questions,â?? McCarthy nodded and laughed in agreement. (14:51:18) McCarthy noted her thick Boston accent and roots, and recalled how her childhood there taught her the importance of health and environment, leading to a â?ocherishedâ?? life of public service. McCarthy expressed her optimism about the ability to impact change, quoting Bidenâ?Ts â?~Build Back betterâ?T plan and seemed to play on Bidenâ?Ts memoirâ?Ts title, â?opromises to keep,â?? noting Bidenâ?Ts plan would be a â?~promise kept.â?T Biden again mispronounced yet another name, this time it was Ali Zaidi which he acknowledged during his remarks, which drew laughs from Bidenâ?Ts other picks. â?oI appoint Ali Zandi -- Zaidi, excuse me. And Ali, you can be â?oBidden.â?? If I mispronounced your last name, I apologize. [laughter] He served as the top -- top climate adviser to President Obama and me in the Office of Management and Budget and the Domestic Policy Council. He helped draft and implement our Climate Action Plan and secure the Paris Climate Agreement,â?? Biden said. (14:51:45) Zaidi noted his immigrant roots, moving as a child from Pakistan to Pennsylvania, and praised Biden for his leadership during the trying year. [HARRIS] Harris spoke about the growing threat of climate change across the country, noting â?oOur climate crisis is not a partisan issue, and it is not a hoax.â?? Harris said that part of the reason she was so excited to join a Biden administration was because of his climate change plan. â?oPart of the reason I was so proud to join Joe Biden as his running mate was because he was proposing one of the most ambitious climate plans in history. A plan to secure carbon pollution free electricity by 2035, a plan to achieve net zero emissions no later than 2050. A plan to invest in a clean energy future and create millions of good-paying union jobs along the way. And the team that President-Elect Biden and I are announcing today will help make that plan a reality,â?? Harris said. (15:24:55) [CLIMATE CHANGE] Climate change was one of the four crises Biden continually outlined during the campaign, and he laid out the climate challenge before him with examples of the destruction weâ?Tve seen just this year, saying â?oitâ?Ts not just the pandemic that keeps people inside, itâ?Ts poor air quality,â?? in addition to wildfires, hurricanes, and other disasters: â?oJust this year, wildfires burned more than 5 million acres in California and Washington state. Across the West, theyâ?Tre roughly the size of the entire state of New Jersey -- literally burned to the ground. Intense and powerful hurricanes, tropical storms pummelled Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina, across the Gulf along the East coast. Record floods, hurricane speed, wind storms and severe droughts ravaged the Midwest and more Americans see and feel the devastation in big cities, small towns, on coastlines and in farm lands, in red states and in blue,â?? Biden said. (14:35:32) Biden pledged that his plan would create 1 Million jobs in the auto industry, and would move the U.S. to a carbon neutral by the year 2030, and pointed to the Obama-Biden administration as a guide for how to take such bold action. Biden added that his administration would help to build 1.5 million energy efficient homes, and work to address environmental injustice across the country. FULL LOG BELOW (VIA WASH 6, HEAD ON POOL): 143353 BIDEN>> Good afternoon. I was a little late because I was explaining to these distinguished nominees that it seems inappropriate for me to ask them to come all the way to Wilmington, Delaware, and then Iâ?Tm not able to invite them to my home and show any hospitality but hopefully, we're gonna get through this -- this crisis sooner than later and we can get back, we can get back to normal. 143419 Let me begin by saying good afternoon. Today, I'm pleased to announce a team that will lead my administration's ambitious plan to address the existential threat of our time, climate change. [clears throat] Excuse me. Like other fellow cabinet nominees and appointees, members of our Environmental & Energy team are brilliant, theyâ?Tre qualified, tested and they are barrier-busting. 143443 Today, the announcement we will make this -- the sixth African-American, the sixth of African-American members of our cabinet which is a record. After today, our cabinet wonâ?Tt just be one of or two precedent breaking appointments but 12, including today's long overdue appointment of the first Native American cabinet secretary. And welcome, welcome, welcome. Thanks for being willing to do this. 143510 Already, there are more people of color in our cabinet than any cabinet ever, more women than ever. The Biden-Harris cabinet, it will be historic -- the cabinet that looks like America, that taps into the best of America, that opens doors and includes the full range of talents we have in this nation. 143530 And like the rest of the team, today's nominees are ready on day one, which is essential because we literally have no time to waste. Just this year, wildfires burned more than 5 million acres in California and Washington state. Across the West, theyâ?Tre roughly the size of the entire state of New Jersey -- literally burned to the ground. Intense and powerful hurricanes, tropical storms pummelled Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina, across the Gulf along the East coast. 143606 Record floods, hurricane speed, wind storms and severe droughts ravaged the Midwest and more Americans see and feel the devastation in big cities, small towns, on coastlines and in farm lands, in red states and in blue. Look, billions of dollars in damage, homes and memories washed away, small businesses closed for good, crops and farmlands destroyed for the next generation of family farmers. 143639 And just last year, the Defense department reported that climate change is a direct threat to more than two-thirds of our military operational (?) critical installations in the world, particularly in the United States. And this could well be a conservative estimate. And so many climate and health calamities are colliding all at once. It's not just a pandemic that keeps people inside, it's poor air quality. 143705 Multiple studies have shown air pollution is associated with the increased risk of death from Covid-19. Folks, we're in a crisis. Just like we need to be a unified nation in response to covid-19, we need a unified national response to climate change. We need to meet the moment with the urgency it demands, as we would during any national emergency. And from this crisis -- from these crises, I should say, we need to seize the opportunity to build back, and build back better than we were before. 143740 That's what this administration is going to do with the help of these fine people. You know, when we think about climate change, we think jobs, good paying union jobs. A key plank of our Build Back Better economy and economic plan is building a modern, climate resistant infrastructure and a clean energy future. We can put millions of Americans to work modernizing water, transportation and energy infrastructure to withstand the impacts of extreme weather. 143811 When we think about renewable energy, we see American manufacturers, American workers racing to lead the global market. We see farmers making agriculture first in the world to achieve net-zero emissions, and gaining new sources of income in the process on the farm (?). And we see small businesses and master-electricians designing and installing innovative, energy conserving buildings and gomes. Weâ?Tre gonna reduce electric consumption and save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in energy costs. 143845 And we will challenge everyone, everyone, to step up. And we'll bring America back -- back into the Paris agreement, and put us back in the business of leading the world on climate change again. The current administration reversed the Obama-Biden fuel efficiency standards, and picked big oil companies over American workers. Our administration will not only bring those standards back, we will set new ambitious standards that our workers are ready to meet today. 143916 We see American workers building and installing over 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations across this country. We see American consumers switching to electrical vehicles through rebates and incentives. And not only that, the federal government owns and maintains an enormous fleet of vehicles. Weâ?Tre gonna harness the purchasing power of our federal government to make sure weâ?Tre buying clean electric vehicles that are made and sourced by union workers right here in America. 143946 Altogether, this will mean one million, one million new jobs in the American auto industry. And weâ?Tll do another big thing, put us on a path of achieving a carbon pollution free, electric energy sector by the year 2035 that no future president can turn back. Transforming the American electric sector to produce power without carbon pollution will be the greatest spur to job creation and economic competitiveness in the 21st century, not to mention the benefits to our health and our environment. 144023 But we need to get to work. We gotta get to work right away. Weâ?Tll need scientists at national labs, land grant universities, historically black colleges and universities to innovate the technologies needed to generate, store and transmit this clean energy. Weâ?Tll need engineers to design them, workers to manufacture them. Weâ?Tll need iron workers and welders to install them. That's how we're going to become the world's largest exporter of these technologies, creating even more jobs. 144053 We know how to do this. The Obama-Biden administration reduced the auto industry and -- excuse me, I should say (?), rescued the automobile industry while reducing pollution. And at the same time, helped them retool. We made solar energy costs competitive with traditional energy, weatherized more than a million homes. The Recovery Act made record clean energy investments, $90 billion on everything from smart grid systems to clean energy manufacturing. 144124 And we're going to do it again but this time, bigger, faster, and better than before. We're also going to build 1.5 million new energy efficient homes and public housing units that will benefit our communities three times over, by alleviating the affordable housing crisis, by increasing energy efficiency and by reducing the racial wealth gap linked to homeownership. 144150 We're going to create more than a quarter million jobs right away to do things like working toward plugging the 3,200,000 abandoned oil and gas wells that the EPA says pose an ongoing threat to the health and safety of our communities. They're going to be good-paying union jobs doing that. We're going to launch a new, modern day civilian climate corp to heal our public lands and make us less vulnerable to wildfires and floods. And I believe that every American has a fundamental right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. 144228 But I know that we haven't fulfilled that right. No, we haven't fulfilled that right for a generation or more in places like Cancer Alley in Louisiana or right here in my state, along route 9, on the Delaware Corridor. Fulfilling this basic obligation to all Americans -- especially to low income, white, Black, Brown and Native American communities who too often don't have the clean air and clean water. And it's not going to be easy, but it's absolutely necessary. 144258 And we're committed to facing -- weâ?Tre committed to climate change by delivering environmental justice. These aren't pie in the sky dreams. These are concrete, actionable solutions and the team is going to get it done. For the Secretary of Interior, I nominate Congresswoman Deb Haaland. Sheâ?Ts of the Pueblo people, only 35 generations in New Mexico, and sheâ?Ts from a military family. 144326 Her mom, also Pueblo, served in the United States Navy. Her dad, a Norwegian American, a Marine, now buried in Arlington. A single mom, she raised her child while running a small business. When times were tough, they relied on food stamps. Congresswoman Haaland graduated from law school, and then got involved in politics and public life. 144349 Two years ago, she became one of the first Native American women to serve in the United States Congress. She serves on the Armed Services Committee and the Committee on Natural Resources, and chairs the subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands, which I have an incredibly sincere interest in, where she learned -- she learned and she earned the respect of a broad coalition of people from tribal leaders to environmental groups to labor. 144418 As the first Native American Cabinet Secretary in the history of the United States of America, she'll be a true steward of our National Parks, our natural resources and all of our lands. The federal government has long broken promises to Native American tribes who have been on this land since time immemorial. With her appointment, Congresswoman Haaland will help me strengthen the nation-to-nation relationship, and Iâ?Tm honored to accept that sheâ?Ts been willing, when I called her, to accept this critical role. Again, Deb, thank you for doing this. 144452 For Secretary of Energy, I nominate Governor Jennifer Granholm, first woman -- where's Jennifer? Back there. She's a great friend as well. First woman to ever serve as Governor of Michigan. In 2009, she faced the collapse of the defining industry of her state and our nation, but I saw firsthand how she responded. She bet on the auto-workers. She bet on the promise of a clean energy future. 144524 Her leadership helped rescue the automobile industry in the United States of America, helped save a million American jobs, and helped bring Detroit back. Governor Granholm is just like the state she's led to efficiently and effectively for eight years: hard working, resilient, and forward thinking, someone not only capable of solving urgent problems but someone who sees the opportunities of the future and always, always has their eyes on needs and aspirations of working people. 144553 Weâ?Tve become friends over time. Together, throughout her career, sheâ?Ts worked with states, cities, business and labor to promote a clean energy future with new jobs, new industry, cleaner and more affordable energy. Now, I'm asking her to bring that vision and faith in America to the Department of Energy. And thank you for being willing to do it, Jennifer. I appreciate it a bunch. 144618 For Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, I nominate Michael Regan. Michael is a proud son of North Carolina. He turned a passion for exploring the woods and waters and intercoastal plain into a deep expertise on environmental science. He got his start at the EPA serving, and with both Democrat and Republican administrations, working in everything from reducing air pollution to improving energy efficiency. He currently serves as Secretary of North Carolina's Department of Environmental Quality. 144652 When the Governor told me how wonderful he was, I don't think he expected I was going to try to steal him but, Governor, thank you very much for putting up with me. But the Environmental Quality he's brought to the people across the public and private and non-profit sectors to help build new, clean energy economy, creating quality jobs and confronting climate change, he led the charge to clean up the Cape Fear river, contaminated for years by dangerous toxic chemicals. 144721 He created North Carolina's first board of its kind to address environmental justice and equality and equity. Itâ?Ts helped lift up front line -- front line and fence line communities that are those communities that live along, that literally have fences separating them from the plants that are polluting with chemicals and other plants that are polluting. It helps lift up those front line and fence communities that carried the burdens of industrial progress for much too long, without sharing in any of the benefits. 144753 Michael would be the second African-American official and the first African-American man to serve in this position. He shares my belief in forming consensus and finding common purpose. He's a leader who will respect the EPA's place as the world's premier -- premier Environmental Protection Agency, and reassert that as the world premier agency that safeguards our entire planet, protects our lives and strengthens our economy for all Americans. 144823 And to chair the Council on Environmental Quality, I nominate Brenda Malloy, an accomplished public servant, a brilliant environmental lawyer, daughter of a working class family who has dedicated her life to solving the most complex environmental challenges facing America. Sheâ?Ts served in both Democratic and Republican administrations, helping safeguard our public lands, helping -- helping communities manage their natural resources and responsibilities. 144853 Chair of -- chair of CEO, Council on Economic Quality, Iâ?Tm asking her to coordinate our environmental efforts across the entire federal government to solve some of the most persistent environmental problems America faces today. Brenda would be the first African-American official to hold this critical position. We are fortunate that one of the most widely respected environmental leaders in the country accepted the call to serve again. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 144923 To serve as the first ever National Climate Adviser -- By the way, when we were in the back, we were talking about the environment, and I turned and said that this particular person's forgotten more about the environment than most people know. I was really -- I wasn't sure she was going to do it, but the first climate adviser lead the newly former -- to lead the newly formed White House Office of Domestic Policy, I'm appointing Gina McCarthy. 144952 Gina was the former EPA administrator. In this role, she led the office, and it shows how serious I am to ask her to come back, and it shows how committed she is to be willing to come back. Ginaâ?Ts got more than 20 years of experience, and she's a policy wonk and a people person, a problem solver and coalition builder. As EPA Administrator, she was instrumental in carrying out the Obama-Biden Climate Action plan, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, getting toxins out of the air we breathe, conserving critical water sources. 145026 She led our effort to help lower carbon emissions of existing power plants and power plants of the future. And by doing the necessary work here at home, she helped us rally the world around the Paris Climate Accords. Today, I'm asking her to take a singular focus on carrying out the ambitious climate agenda here at home and working with my special envoy, former secretary of state John Kerry, who leads our climate effort around the world. 145056 And I'm grateful, Iâ?Tm grateful that she agreed to do it. I'm looking forward to working alongside her again. I used to drive her crazy when I was Vice President, always calling and asking all these questions. And she's thinking, â?omy god, what's he going to do as president?â?? But -- [laughs] And to serve -- to serve as our National Climate Adviser, 145118 I appoint Ali Zandi -- Zaidi, excuse me. And Ali, you can be â?oBidden.â?? If I mispronounced your last name, I apologize. [laughter] He served as the top -- top climate adviser to President Obama and me in the Office of Management and Budget and the Domestic Policy Council. He helped draft and implement our Climate Action Plan and secure the Paris Climate Agreement. 145145 He currently serves as New York Deputy Secretary of Energy and Environment, and the state's chairman of Climate Policy and Finance. He's helping to create jobs generating solar and wind power, jobs building electric charging stations and a more modern grid with (?) bold climate action grounded in science, economic and public health. And he's an immigrant -- heâ?Ts an immigrant from Pakistan who grew up in the rust belt outside of Erie, Pennsylvania. 145212 I was from the better part of the state, the northeast. You know where -- Scranton and Pittsburgh area. You know, but all kidding aside, he knows -- he knows we can beat the climate crisis and we can do it with jobs. He knows we can deliver environmental justice and revitalize communities as well, too often overlooked and forgotten. And every day, heâ?Tll walk into the White House knowing the world is looking for America to lead. 145239 I say to each one of you: thank you for answering the call. And thank you to your families. We couldnâ?Tt do this without them, we couldn't do it without you. To career civil services at the agencies, I know that many of you have felt forgotten for a long time. We look forward to working with you to once again carrying out your department's mission and honor the integrity of the offices at the organization you're involved in. 145305 And to the American people: yes, the goals I've laid out are bold. The challenges ahead are daunting, but I want you to know that we can do this. We must do this, and we will do this. We are America. There's nothing we can't do when we do it together. So I say again to all of you: god bless you all, may god protect our troops. And now, I'm going to turn this to the team, starting with our next Secretary of Interior, congresswoman Deb Haaland. Deb, the floor is yours once they clean (?) off -- [inaud] DEB HAALAND 145407 HAALAND>> Thank you. Thank you. I'm proud to stand here on the ancestral homelands of the Lenape tribal nation. The President-Elect and Vice President-Elect are committed to a diverse cabinet, and Iâ?Tm honored and humbled to accept their nomination for Secretary of the Interior. [tearing up] Growing up in my mother's Puebla household made me fierce. 145432 My life has not been easy. I struggled with homelessness. I relied on food stamps, and raised my child as a single mom. These struggles give me perspectives, though, so that I can help people to succeed. My grandparents who were taken away from their families as children and sent to boarding school, in an effort to destroy their traditions and identities, maintained our culture. 145458 This moment is profound when we consider the fact that a former Secretary of the Interior once proclaimed his goal to, quote, â?ocivilize or exterminate us.â?? I'm a living testament to the failure of that horrific ideology. I also stand on the shoulders of my ancestors and all the people who have sacrificed so that I can be here. 145523 My dad was a U.S. Marine and, no matter where we were stationed, he made sure we spent time outdoors. Time with my dad in the mountains or on the beach, and time with my grandparents in the cornfield at Laguna taught me to respect the Earth and to value our resources. I carry those values with me everywhere. I'm a product of their resilience. 145547 As our country faces the impacts of climate change and environmental injustice, the Interior Department has a role to address these challenges. The President-Elect's goals, driven by justice and empowering communities who have shouldered the burdens of environmental negligence, and we will ensure that the decisions at Interior will once again be driven by science. 145615 We know that climate change can only be solved with participation of every department and of every community. Coming together in a common purpose, this country can and will tackle this challenge. The President Elect and Vice President-Elect know that issues under Interiorâ?Ts jurisdiction aren't simply about conservation. They're woven in with justice, good jobs, and closing the racial wealth and health gaps. 145647 This historic moment will not go by without the acknowledgement of the many people who have believed in me over the years and had the confidence in me for this position. I'll be fierce for all of us, for our planet and all of our protected land, and I'm honored and ready to serve. Thank you again. JENNIFER GRANHOLM 145732 GRANHOLM>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you for your confidence. I bring my gratitude and that of the loves of my life, my husband and best friend and partner, Dan Mulhurn, glorious children and their equally magnificent spouses, Connor and Alexis, Cece and Damian, and Jack. 145802 My commitment to clean energy was forged in the fire. I was the governor of Michigan, as the President-Elect said, during the great recession when it struck and pushed our auto industry, which is the life blood of Michigan, to the brink of utter collapse. Workers were losing their jobs through no fault of their own, banks wouldn't lend, people were losing their houses. Our unemployment rate in Michigan was 15%. In Detroit, it was 28%. 145839 But then, thankfully, as now, help was on the way. Joe Biden and the Obama administration worked with us to rescue the auto industry and the million jobs that are attached to it. They worked with us to retool and electrify Detroit for the future, of course, and to diversify Michigan's economy on the premise of this promising future in clean energy. So, today, in the midst of another harrowing crisis, clean energy remains among the most promising jobs and economic growth sector in the world. 145928 Over the next two decades, countries and companies are going to invest trillions -- trillions, not just billions, trillions -- in electric cars and batteries and wind turbines and solar panels and energy efficient appliances and energy efficient buildings. They're going to upgrade their electric grids using smart technology. Millions of good-paying jobs are going to be created, millions. But where? Where will those jobs be? 145958 Are they going to be in China or in the other countries that are fighting tooth and nail to corner the market on this hopeful electric and clean energy future? Or are they -- those jobs going to be here in America? The path to building back better starting with building and manufacturing and deploying those products here, stamping them â?oMade in America,â?? and exporting them around the world. 150030 We can win those jobs for American workers with the right policy. We can. And I-- I know what those jobs will mean for both the planet and for those workers and families. I'm proud to have been a U.S. citizen now for 40 years, but I arrived here as a Canadian immigrant at age 4, brought by parents seeking opportunity. My mom is a funny and fierce Irish Welsh Newfi, Newfoundland, which is a Canadian province off the east coast, a fishing province they call â?othe rock.â?? 150116 And like many women in her generation, she didn't go to college. She married a great man, my dad, who passed away earlier this year of a cerebral hemorrhage. My dad was born in rural Canada in a log cabin with no running water and extreme poverty. His father, my grandfather emigrated to Canada when -- from Sweden, during the great depression. Again, seeking opportunity. But when my grandfather could not find a job to support his young family, in desperation, my grandfather shot himself, leaving my grandmother and three young children in dire poverty. 150208 My father was 3 years old when that happened. And when he was 11, my dad found work at a sawmill, and he never stopped working. He married my mom. They came to America for work. And despite not having a college degree, my hard working, gentle father got the fair chance that he was looking for in America. He had started out as a bank teller, and he retired as head of the bank. 150243 And it's because of my family's journey and my experience in fighting for hard working Michigan families that I have become obsessed -- obsessed with creating good-paying jobs in America in a global economy, obsessed with seizing the opportunities that a clean energy future will provide for American workers. So we can stand on the sidelines and let other countries beat us to these opportunities, or we can get in the game. 150317 And I am so ready and honored, Coach, that you are putting me on the field with this amazing team to help create those jobs in every pocket of this country and, especially, in the hardest hit places and for the people who are still waiting on the fair chance that they need. Thank you for tapping me to work on their behalf. MICHAEL REGAN 150410 REGAN>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you for this opportunity. Growing up as a child, hunting and fishing with my father and grandfather in eastern north Carolina, 150424 I developed a deep love and respect for the outdoors and our natural resources, but I also experienced respiratory issues that required me to use an inhaler on days when pollutants and allergens were especially bad. I've always been curious about the connections between our environment and our health. 150445 How the world around us contributes to or detracts from our enjoyment of life. So after completing my education in environmental science, there was one place in particular that I wanted to work: the EPA. When I started that first summer internship, I never imagined that one day, I would be nominated to lead an agency as its administrator. 150513 So this opportunity, well, it's a dream come true. Since the start of my career, my goals have been the same: to safeguard our natural resources, to improve the quality of our air and our water, to protect our families and our communities and to help them seize the opportunities of a cleaner healthier world. Now, I'm honored to pursue those goals alongside leaders who understand what's at stake. 150543 When President-Elect Biden called out the plight of the fence line communities during the campaign, he made it clear that we would no longer just deal with the issues up to the fence line of these facilities, but that we would actually see the people on the other side of those fence lines. He's already backed up that commitment by assembling a team that reflects America, and I'm proud to join the Vice President-Elect as a fellow HBCU graduate in this administration. 150616 Together, this team will ensure that environmental justice and human impacts are top of mind as we tackle these tough issues. After nearly a decade at the EPA, I know firsthand the remarkable dedication and talent of those career staff. And as a state official, I understand how actions from EPA can help or hurt local efforts. We're going to ensure that EPA is once again a strong partner for the states, not a roadblock. 150650 We will be driven by our convictions, that every person in our great country has the right to clean air, clean water and a healthier life, no matter how much money they have in their pockets, the color of their skin or the community that they live in. We will move with a sense of urgency on climate change, protecting our drinking water, and enact an environmental justice framework that empowers people in all communities. 150720 But we also know that these challenges can't be solved by regulation alone. And we also know that environmental protection and economic prosperity, well theyâ?Tre not mutually exclusive. They go hand in hand. We need an all hands on deck approach from industry to individuals, finding common ground to build back better for workers, for our communities, for our economy, and yes, for our planet. And that's what we'll pursue together. I look forward to continuing this work on behalf of the American people, so thank you. BRENDA MALLORY 150825 MALLORY>> Good afternoon. Mr. President-Elect, Madam President Elect -- Madam Vice President-Elect, I am honored and humbled by the trust youâ?Tve placed in me and I look forward to getting to work with this incredible team. 150841 I'm especially grateful for the chance to return to public service at a time when agency personnel are looking for optimism, and so many communities are struggling under thedr weight of persistent interwoven crises. I know firsthand the challenges that everyday people face when one unexpected illness or expense can upend the economic stability of a family. 150911 I grew up in the working class community of Waterbury, Connecticut, a town not so different from Scranton, Pennsylvania. I know the faces of the marginalized, and I appreciate the challenges of urban pollution. While the words â?oclimate changeâ?? and â?oenvironmental injusticeâ?? were not part of the vernacular back then, the evidence of their impact was all around. In that setting, there was plenty of opportunity to work to make a difference in people's lives. 150944 For my parents and particularly, my father, dedication to tackling community challenges was vitally important. Service, in all its forms, was essential. They taught me to be a problem-solver, to recognize that each of us is blessed with different talents and we are all called to bring those gifts to bear in whatever -- wherever we are, to work with anyone and everyone to make things better in communities that we share. 151018 This has been the driving force and the guiding principle of my journey. I earned a high school scholarship that changed the course of my life. I became the first person in my family to go to college. I attended law school. And at each stage, I was aware of how different the world I came from was from the one I was entering. I didn't set out to specialize in environmental issues, but once I started, I was always mindful of the practical implications of the decisions. 151050 As a staffer at the Connecticut Commission on human rights, I learned that environmental protection and ensuring the health and well being of all communities had to be reconciled. It is essential that we deploy smart and human policy -- humane policy to help communities pull themselves back from the edge and improve the health, security and prosperity of their -- of all people. 151117 The Build Back Better plan is poised to breathe new life into the Council on Environmental Quality. CEQ will work with a broad range of partners on a broad range of issues, tackle the full breadth of climate change, preserve the natural treasures of our nation, center environmental justice, and help more communities overcome legacy environmental impacts. 151146 I am grateful to the President-Elect and Vice President-Elect for elevating this work and lifting up the communities where it will make the most difference. Thank you for the opportunity to serve. GINA McCARTHY 151228 McCARTHY>> Mr. President-Elect, Madam Vice President-Elect, thank you so much for this opportunity to serve and to work beside and with this incredibly talented team. You know, the issues I've been taking on in this role are very personal to me, and they have been for as long as I can remember. As keen listeners, you would already have guessed that I grew up in and around the city of Boston. 151258 My dad was a teacher in the Boston school system for more than 40 years, and my mom waitressed at local donut shops. You know, looking back, I guess we were a lower middle class family, but we didn't know it. Instead of expensive vacations, my sisters and I did our adventuring in our own backyards, playing in the woods -- [takes mask off -- oops, Iâ?Tll take that off -- playing in the woods and around ponds in our hometown. 151330 A beach day for my family was a swim in Boston Harbor. And at that point in time, it meant coming out of the water with oil and other things stuck to our skin. So, we'd have to dry and clean ourselves all at the same time. Well, that was back in the â?~60s before the first Earth Day, but we managed. And Boston Harbor today is terrific. But all I can think of is back when I was in grammar school and the nuns used to jump up and say, run, close the windows in your classrooms because when the rubber factory across the street started to spew chemical stenches into the air, it would come wafting into our classroom. 151420 And that smell kept us from recess more days than I or my teacher ever cared to remember. So, I figured out early that there was just an intrinsic connection between our environment and our health. And that understanding drew me into a very long career of public service, which I will never regret and always cherish. And I did it because I was trying to help families and communities just like mine and those who are facing certainly much deeper and more insidious legacies of environmental harm so they could overcome the challenges that were holding them back. 151502 Environmental protection is part of my moral fiber. It's what I live for. And I'm proud of the progress that we've made across the United States, and Iâ?Tm proud of the work that I did for many years at local and state governments, as well as at EPA to make sure our air and water looks cleaner, to make communities safer and more livable, and begin to confront the crisis of climate change. And I'm here today because climate change is not only a threat to the planet. 151538 It is a threat to our health and our well being. It's a threat to people everywhere and the precious natural resources that we depend on. Defeating this threat is the fight of our lifetimes, and our success will require the engagement of every community, every sector in our nation, and every country in the world. But the opportunities to act on climate change right now fill me with incredible optimism, with hope, with energy, and excitement. 151616 We not only have the responsibility to meet this moment together. We have the capacity to meet this moment together. The President-Elect has put together the strongest climate plan ever raised to this level of leadership. It rises to the incredible moment of opportunity we have to build back better for our health, for jobs, and for communities that have been systematically disadvantaged for years. 151650 It will be my incredible honor to help turn this plan into promises kept by marshaling every part of our government, working directly with communities, and harnessing the force of science and the values of environmental justice, to build a better future for my two, very soon to be three little grandchildren, and for generations of Americans to come. 151724 So thank you for this opportunity to help put Americans back to work in innovative, good-paying clean energy jobs to improve the health of our communities and to help clear the path for people in every hometown in America to live brighter, cleaner, and more vibrant lives. Thank you. ALI ZAIDI 151809 ZAIDI>> Thank you, President-Elect Biden and Vice President-Elect Harris. I am deeply honored to answer your call to serve this nation that I love, especially at this moment of consequence. For our planet and for the people who live here, the peril of the climate crisis is already evident. 151834 But we can also see the promise in the jobs casting and machining, installing and rewiring, pouring new foundations and building new industries, and in the possibility of repairing communities hurt, places where pollution has been heavy and opportunity has never quite reached. 151905 Mr. President-Elect and Madam Vice President-Elect, you campaigned on delivering that promise by mounting a response equal to the existential threat that we face, not only by listening to the science but also by invigorating the economy, revving up manufacturing and innovation, spurring good-paying union jobs and advancing justice long overdue, leading by the example of America at its best. 151944 When my parents moved from Pakistan to Pennsylvania, they brought two little kids and a few suitcases of dreams, dreams their kids are living today. Danish, my brother, a doctor on the front lines of the covid crisis and me, moving to the front lines of the fight against climate change. 152013 To be healthy, to have purpose, to be able to give back -- that is how our parents taught us to define the American dream. I am so grateful to be serving alongside the team you have assembled. Grateful for Gina McCarthy, my guide and my good friend, for the incredible and inspiring leaders on this stage, and for those with whom we'll partner all across your administration. 152050 This has been a trying year for all Americans, marked by so much loss. But throughout, you, sir, have been there for us. And when the pandemic hit closer to home, you were there for me. Mr. President-Elect, that is who you are: a person of faith and family, of decency and goodness. 152126 Your leadership gives me hope. My students, scientists imagining and inventing, they give me hope. Young organizers mobilizing and advocating, they give me hope and, together, I know we will meet this moment. Thank you and god bless you. KAMALA HARRIS 152215 HARRIS>> Good afternoon. A few months ago, as wildfires raged across the West, I traveled home to California. What I saw on that trip, and so many others in recent years, was heartbreaking -- charred playgrounds, homes and neighborhoods in ashes, firefighters battling fires while their own homes burned to the ground. 152242 My brother-in-law is actually a firefighter in California as well. Some of the most toxic air anywhere in the world. Two years ago, in 2018, when I visited communities like Paradise, California that had been devastated by wildfires, that year's fire season was considered the worst in California's history. This fire season was even worse, the worst in California's history and America's history. 152313 And of course, fires are only one symptom of our growing climate crisis. In recent years, families across the Midwest have experienced historic flooding, while families all along our coast have endured some of the most active hurricane seasons on record. They only name a storm if it's particularly dangerous. This year, we had more named storms than ever before. 152343 Our climate crisis is not a partisan issue, and it is not a hoax. It is an existential threat to all of us, particularly poor communities and communities of color who bear the greatest risks from polluted air, polluted water, and a failing infrastructure. 152410 Many years ago, 15 years ago when I was District Attorney in San Francisco, I created the first Environmental Justice unit in the city, and it was one of the first in our country because I believed then, as I do now, everyone has a right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. And of course, so does our President-Elect Biden. 152433 Part of the reason I was so proud to join Joe Biden as his running mate was because he was proposing one of the most ambitious climate plans in history, a plan to secure carbon pollution free electricity by 2035, a plan to achieve net-zero emissions no later than 2050, a plan to invest in a clean energy future and create millions of good-paying union jobs along the way. 152506 And the team that President-Elect Biden and I are announcing today will help make that plan a reality. 152514 These are some of our country's most seasoned public servants and climate experts. They have experience mastering the most effective ways to get things done when it comes to climate change. They recognize the importance of bringing together the private sector and organized labor, together with government, to meet these challenges and to confront this crisis head on with our allies and partners around the world. 152544 And they are compassionate leaders who understand that, ultimately, addressing climate change is about building safer communities and healthier communities and thriving communities for all Americans. These public servants reflect the very best of America, and they are the team we need to meet this urgent challenge. 152612 In his 2015 encyclical, the holy father Pope Francis wrote, quote, â?ohumanity still has the ability to work together in building our common home.â?? Starting on January 20th, we will work to heed those words, and come together here in our country and around the world to build and protect our common home for generations to come. 152644 Thank you, Mr. President-Elect, for this day. Thank you. #####

HOUSE FLOOR DEBATE: The House meets for legislative business. Suspensions (3 bills): 1) H. Res. 781 - Congratulating charter schools and their students, parents, teachers, and administrators across the United States for their ongoing contributions to education, and for other purposes (Sponsored by Rep. Porter / Education and the Workforce Committee); 2) H.Con.Res. 359 - Authorizing the use of the Capitol Grounds for the District of Columbia Special Olympics Law Enforcement Torch Run (Sponsored by Rep. Shuster / Transportation and Infrastructure Committee); 3) H.R. 4700 - To provide for the conditional conveyance of any interest retained by the United States in St. Joseph Memorial Hall in St. Joseph, Michigan (Sponsored by Rep. Upton / Transportation and Infrastructure Committee) // H.R. 4975 - Lobbying Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 Structured Rule) (Sponsored by Rep. Dreier / Judiciary Committee) // H.R. 4954 - SAFE Port Act (Subject to a Rule) (Sponsored by Rep. Lungren / Homeland Security Committee) 12:00:05.7 help to address the problems that every american are feeling at the pump and help to make america more energy independents. i would ask my colleagues for their support and i would urge adoption of h.r. 5253, and i yield back the balance of my 12:00:22.1 time. the speaker pro tempore: the question is will the house suspend the rules and pass the bill h.r. 5253. so many as are in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, 2/3 of those present having voted in the affirmative, the rules are suspended, the -- the 12:00:39.7 gentlelady from new mexico. mrs. wilson: mr. speaker, on that vote, i request the yeas and nays. the speaker pro tempore: the yeas and nays are requested. all those in favor of taking this vote by the yeas and nays will rise and remain standing until counted. 12:00:58.0 a sufficient number having arisen, the yeas and nays are ordered. pursuant to clause 8 of rule 20 and the chair's prior announcement, further proceedings on this question will be postponed. the gentleman from texas. 12:01:11.3 mr. barton: mr. speaker, i move that the house suspend the rules and pass the bill h.r. 5254. the speaker pro tempore: the clerk will report the title of the bill. the clerk: h.r. 5254, a bill to set schedules for the consideration of permits for refineries. the speaker pro tempore: 12:01:27.7 pursuant to house rule, the gentleman from texas, mr. barton, and the gentleman from virginia, mr. boucher, each will control 20 minutes. the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas. mr. barton: mr. speaker, i ask 12:01:42.9 unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days within which to revise and extend their remarks and include any extraneous material on the bill. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. barton: mr. speaker, i yield myself such time as i may consume. mr. speaker, we now take up the second bill today to help 12:01:58.6 improve our energy outlook, h.r. 5254, the refinery permit progression -- process scheduling act. it is a challenge to new developers, especially new 12:02:15.1 market entrants who could offer alternatives to today refineries. the plain fact is our country is losing the ability to refine oil into motor fuel. we're not only importing oil in ever grating quantities, we're importing gasoline by the shipload too. 12:02:29.8 the threat we face today is not only to the price, but also to the supply. if you tried to buy gasoline at one of the stations that have run out of gas lately, you'll remember the gasoline lines of the 1970's. high prices are a hardship, but dry pumps or a disaster. 12:02:46.1 and as i've pointed out earlier today, at the 7-eleven station at glebe road and second street in arlington, virginia, when i went by this morning to get some gasoline, there was no gasoline to be had. my taurus that i'm driving here 12:03:03.6 in washington is now on -- literally on e, and i hope i have enough to get to a station that has some gasoline later this evening when congress recesses for the day. the last american refinery to be built from scratch in this 12:03:20.2 country was over 30 years ago, and i believe it was in louisiana. we have shut down more refineries in the last 30 years than we have refineries in operation today in the united states. 12:03:35.0 most of those are clustered in the gulf coast region, which as we know because of katrina and rita, are in harm's way if hurricanes continue to batter that part of the country. katrina has taught us some very bitter lessons. one was don't put too many of your refinery eggs in one 12:03:52.6 basket. this bill does nothing to dictate new refinery locations. only developers and local and state governments can do that. but it will make certain that the federal government does its part to eliminate some of the needless, in my opinion, 12:04:08.5 bureaucratic delay if somebody wants to build or expand -- build a new refinery or expand an existing refinery. and in my opinion we need to do that. we consume about 21 million barrels of refined product in the united states every day. 12:04:25.7 our refinery capacity located domestically is less than 17 million barrels per day. that's a shortage of four million barrels a day in 12:04:43.9 refinery capacity, in domestic demand from refined oil. are we trying to take a back seat to environmental 12:04:49.5 protection? nothing of the sort. under this bill, while the e.p.a. will be given priority to coordinate and consolidate the permitting processes, we're not backing down on one permit that's required at the state or federal level. 12:05:05.1 the e.p.a. and the department of energy, under this bill, would work together to consolidate and streamline the permitting process so that you could get a decision in a timely fashion. the bill before us would put all agencies responsible for considering permit applications 12:05:20.8 for an oil refinery, a coal-to-liquid refinery, or a biofuel refinery, that they would have to sit down at the same table and hammer out a coordinated action plan of scheduling. they'll put permit applications on parallel tracks and instill 12:05:37.3 focus and teamwork in the process. the schedule will appear in the federal register for all stakeholders to see, and if an agency drags its feet and throws everyone else off schedule, you can go to court, and a court can order to get that particular agency back on 12:05:54.6 track. it can't tell the agency how to rule, but it can require that they meet the schedule that's been agreed to by all the other state and federal agencies that have permitting authority under the current laws. public participation will go on exactly as it has in the past. 12:06:11.0 all the open -- all open records requirements will go on exactly as it has in the past. so we're not shortchanging any environmental protection law under this pending legislation. all we are doing is saying 12:06:25.3 since we have a situation in the united states of america where we use 21 million barrels of refined products every day and we only have refinery capacity for 17 that it's about something that we do something to make it possible to build and expand existing refineries 12:06:41.6 in the united states. it takes a million dollars per thousand barrels of capacity. so we need four million barrels of new refinery capacity. 12:06:56.6 that's somewhere between $40 billion and $60 billion. nobody in their right mind is going to put up that kind of money to expand refinery capacity when it takes as long as 10 years to get the permit just to build or expand the existing refinery. 12:07:11.9 the bill before us today will make it possible to get a decision on the permits. the president has asked that we do it within one year. the bill before us does not set a one-year timetable exactly, but we would hope that the consolidation process and the 12:07:29.5 parallel track process would certainly shorten the tenure permitting wind -- the 10-year permitting window, if we could get it down to one year or 18 months, i think you'd see the day when companies would be announcing new refinery 12:07:46.9 products and lower prices. with that, mr. speaker, i reserve the balance of my time. i would also ask that mr. bass of new hampshire manage the rest of the floor time on the majority side. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. the gentleman from virginia. mr. boucher: thank you very much, mr. speaker. 12:08:02.4 i yield to myself four minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for four minutes. mr. boucher: and mr. speaker, i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, i rise in opposition to this bill and urge its rejection by the house. democrats are more than willing 12:08:17.9 to work with the majority republicans to write legislation which addresses constricted refinery capacity in a proper manner. but on the measure we are debating this morning, we were not consulted. in fact, no hearings have been 12:08:35.0 held on the bill, no markup sessions have been conducted, there has been no consideration whatever of this measure by the house energy and commerce committee, which is the committee of jurisdiction. the bill was not even introduced until late last 12:08:50.7 night or early this morning. if the majority party is willing to work with us, we would make every effort to construct a thoughtful bill that addresses the refinery shortage in a constructive way and bring that bipartisan 12:09:05.7 measure to the floor of the house within a matter of days or, at most, a matter of weeks. i hope the majority republicans will consider and accept our offer. but the bill before us is not constructive. according to testimony that 12:09:21.5 congress received last year, the bill would weaken environmental protections but do virtually nothing to encourage the construction of new gasoline refineries. the bill before us repeals a 12:09:35.0 law requiring the states and the federal government to work together to set deadlines and streamline the process for issuing permits for new refinery construction. that new requirement became law just last august. 12:09:49.0 rather than repeal it now, let's give it a chance to work. the bill before us adds a new layer of federal bureaucracy by creating a federal coordinator to oversee state permitting actions, and states would be mandated to meet a federal 12:10:05.2 schedule for issuing refinery construction permits. states that have legitimate environmental concerns would find their normal review process short-circuited under a mandated federal schedule for permit issuance. 12:10:20.6 and the bill proceeds from a deeply flawed assumption that the reason we have a refinery shortage is burdensome state permitting processes. the real reason we have a refinery shortage is that the companies that own refineries are profiting enormously from 12:10:38.1 the present market structure, including the refinery bottleneck. in essence, they're making more money by refining less gasoline . the real reason we don't have enough refineries is economic interests, not environmental 12:10:55.1 constraints. here's what the oil company c.e.o.'s had to say about the regulations governing the citing of new refineries. last summer the c.e.o. of shell testified to the senate, and i quote, we are not aware of any 12:11:11.1 environmental regulations that have prevented us from expanding refinery capacity or citing a new refinery, end of quote. conoco's c.e.o. testified, and again i quote, at this time, we are not aware of any projects 12:11:28.0 that have been directly prevented as a result of any specific federal or state regulation, end of quote. the record before the congress is clear. it is devoid of any evidence that environmental permitting 12:11:43.3 has delayed or prevented the construction of new refineries. in fact, the record clearly shows that environmental permitting is simply not a problem. and yet, this bill weakens environmental permitting. it's the wrong answer for the problem that we face. 12:12:00.2 let's reject this measure and begin working in a bipartisan fashion this afternoon in order to write a law that will make a genuine difference. if the republicans are willing, democrats pledge our best efforts to work with you to achieve that goal. 12:12:16.8 mr. speaker, i reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new hampshire. mr. bass: mr. speaker, i yield myself four minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for four minutes. mr. bass: mr. speaker, i rise in strong support of the pending legislation, and i urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to do likewise. 12:12:32.5 as others have stated, it's clear that refinery capacity has not been able to keep up with demand. although current refiners have been able to ramp up their production sometimes in excess of 100%, which is an interesting mathematical 12:12:47.7 challenge, the fact is that our population has grown, our economy has grown, and the resulting demand for more energy across the board has created a situation which we -- we had a disaster last summer, hurricane katrina, where 12:13:03.0 refiners were clustered in one specific area of the country, they were running at full capacity, they were shut down for a period of time, and we had a short-term crisis which we were able to get over, but it was not easy. historically, utilization has been much lower than it has 12:13:19.9 been for the last 20 or so years, and the reason for that is we really haven't built a new refinery. now, i agree that there are -- that this bill is not going to circumvent any of the 12:13:34.5 procedural hurdles that need to be crossed in order to build a new refinery, but what it does do is something that's, in my opinion at least, innovative and imaginative in that it establishes a coordinator that will help make sure that the process, although not shortened 12:13:52.2 because you're circumventing any regulation, makes this process work co-terminusly rather than successively. nobody will lose their ability to have their voice heard. 12:14:06.6 there will be no part of the process circumvented, but an investor, a developer, a refiner will have the certainty of knowing that there's a master plan in place, there's a federal coordinator, and 12:14:21.7 there's a process that can be more predictable. and i don't see how you can be against a process that uses the current system and all of the 12:14:33.0 hurdles that need to be crossed, but simply makes it run more efficiently. that's all this bill is trying to do. now, there is a provision that allows the president to simply suggest three base closures be identified for possible 12:14:49.8 location, there's no requirement that it be done, and it also contains a provision that allows for the same expedited process to apply to bio refineries as well. as one who comes from new hampshire, we need to develop 12:15:05.3 bio refinery capacity in this country. we're moving away from mtbe as an oxygenate for gasoline. and i have as a high priority project the development of an ethanol refinery from cellulosic fiber, in other 12:15:22.0 words wood products, from somewhere in the northeast. and this process, although not circumventing, as i said before, any particular rule or regulation, will make the process go quicker. . and i understand my colleague's concern about not having enough 12:15:38.2 hears and so forth, but this bill simply speeds up the process, and if you want the process to last as long as possible and not have any new refinery capacity in this country, vote no on this bill. i understand that. but i believe in the process, but i believe that it should be 12:15:53.3 quick and exped yent but fair. with that, mr. speaker, i reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman virginia. mr. boucher: at this time i'm pleased to yield two minutes to the gentlelady from california, 12:16:11.3 ms. solis. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady is recognized for two minutes. ms. solis: today i rise in strong opposition to this bill. it will not increase refinery capacity, it will not bring down the price of gasoline and it will not ensure the united 12:16:27.7 states to refine its own gasoline. the bill is based on a false premise. there's no evidence that refineries are denied needed permits, either for expansion. and chevron's c.e.o. stated and i quote, we're not aware of any 12:16:44.2 projects that have been prevented as a result of any specific federal or state regulation. the truth is that refineries don't want to construct new refineries. the dirty secret is, they're 12:16:57.8 not going to make any money off of that the five largest oil companies reported a record $120 billion in profits in give and three companies made more than $16 billion in the first quarter of 2006. existing law already provides 12:17:14.0 for new permitting assistance. one year ago, in fact, this body passed the energy policy act. title three subsection 8 of the energy policy act allowed states to seek additional assistance from the federal government for permitting when it was needed. 12:17:30.4 yet the legislation before us today repeals this provision and replaces it with the less effective language. last year democrats brought a plan to this floor that would have set our nation on the right course. it would have created a strategic refinery reserve, giving the u.s. government the 12:17:46.4 ability to refine its own oil for use by military and first responders. the strategic refinery reserve would have made that difference, but rather than solve the problem, we're here with a plan that will not increase refinery capacity, will not bring down the price 12:18:01.7 of gas and will not ensure any ability of the united states to refine its own gasoline. i urge my colleagues to reject and give us the opportunity to take this action that will make a difference for our constituents. and i would like to make reference to letters that we 12:18:17.4 will be submitting later from the state air quality program and administrators and other organizations. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new hampshire. mr. bass: i ask unanimous 12:18:35.2 consent for support for the pending bill be made part of the record. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. bass: i yield two minute to my friend from new york, mr. bueller. 12:18:51.2 the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. bueller: i want to thank him for facilitating staff suggestions. and i think that this bill will not do any harm and it could do some good. while regulations have not prevented oil refinery 12:19:07.5 expansion, and while regulations are not the reason that new refineries have not been built, it can't hurt to streamline the process as long as streamlining is not a euphemism for weakening 12:19:21.7 environmental protections. and in this bill i think that we've hit the right balance. this bill is a far cry from the bill the house debated last 12:19:32.6 fall. some of the commentary i've heard from opponents of the bill on the floor address the old bill. in that bill the department of energy, which isn't even involved in refinery permitting would have been able to impose 12:19:45.8 a schedule on other agencies and states and that schedule was designed to speed the process at all costs. in today's bill, the new bill, the federal government will bring together all the permiddling authorities to agree on a permitting schedule acceptable to all of them, and 12:20:04.8 that schedule must allow for the full substiff and procedural review required by law. in last fall's bill, any legal proceedings were to be biased in favor of the refineries. each going so far as paying 12:20:19.3 their legal costs. in today's bill, while we still create a new cause of action, the federal district court must consider the behavior of all parties, including whether the refiner has been cooperating fully with regulators and then 12:20:36.9 the court can do nothing more than impose a new schedule. this bill explicitly preserves every provision of current environmental law, including the right to bring citizen suits. 12:20:52.3 so i think we've struck the right balance and i urge adoption of this measure. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia. mr. boucher: at this time i ask unanimous consent to insert in the record a letter dated may 3, 2006, from the state and territorial air pollution 12:21:11.2 program administrators, joined in that letter by the association of local air pollution control officials. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. boucher: at this time i recognize the gentleman michigan, mr. stupak. mr. stupak: i ask unanimous consent to insert my statement 12:21:28.2 in the record and urge a no-vote on this legislation. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. boucher: at this time i yield three minutes to the gentleman from maine, mr. allen. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for 12:21:42.9 three minute. mr. allen: i rise in opposition of this bill. it's being rushed to the floor with limited debate, no opportunity for amendments, no hearings, no markup. in fact, as of yesterday the bill hadn't even been introduced. this is yet another example of 12:22:00.1 the ready, fire, aim approach that passes for legistating in the republican-controlled house. unfortunately, some communities in this country that are suffering the most right now are caught in the crossfire. they are the communities that are coping with a military base closed through the brac 12:22:18.2 process. this bill resurrects the bad why idea that communities with closed military bases are dumping grounds for refineries. there's nothing, absolutely nothing in existing statutes or regulations that prohibits a 12:22:33.7 local redevelopment authority from developing a closed base into a refinery complex. in fact, for some communities, a refinery may make sense, but that decision should be made by the local community, not by the president or the secretary of 12:22:48.8 defense. proponents of this bill say they aren't forcing an l.r.a. to build a refinery, only to consider one, but under current law the secretary of defense has the final say about a reuse plan, and this bill requires an l.r.a. to put a refinery into 12:23:07.2 the reuse plan. moreover, the secretary has the power to transfer the land at little or no cost if he chooses to do so. so if donald rumsfeld wants to give away a closed military base in your community to exxonmobil to build a refinery, 12:23:24.1 there is nothing your community can do to stop it. nothing. in fact, your community could have been forced to spend its own resources to draw up a plan to build a refinery even if the community didn't want one. 12:23:38.8 the brac process has already punished these communities enough, including the town of brunswick in my district. congress should not add insult to injury by punishing them again. i urge my colleagues to vote against this ill-advised republican refinery bill. 12:23:54.2 and i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new hampshire. mr. bass: i want to correct the record if i could. to my understanding the bill only allows the president to identify a possible closed 12:24:09.9 military base for refinery location. it's only drawing attention, and it does nothing more than that, and with that i will yield -- yield one minute to my friend from california, mr. 12:24:31.3 hurger. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for one minute. >> i rise in strong support of the streamline the permitting process of oil refineries. my constituents in rural 12:24:43.9 northern california are paying some of the highest gas prices in the nation. red tape is stifling the construction of new and expansive and existing refineries and technology to make refineries cleaner and more efficient. in fact, america has not built 12:25:01.2 a new refinery since the 1970's. i'm reminded today of what president reagan said in 1981, government is not the solution, government is the problem. end of quote. we need to streamline 12:25:16.6 government regulation and start expanding our oil refinery capacity. families and businesses throughout this country have to meet deadlines. the government should have to as well. i urge my colleagues to support this legislation. 12:25:34.7 the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, at this time i yield two minutes to the distinguished gentleman from california, mr. waxman. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for two 12:25:47.1 minutes. mr. waxman: mr. chairman, the republican leadership has a problem. for six years they have worked to give the big oil companies everything they could want, subsidies, environmental exemptions, loopholes, and paybacks. and the results have been spectacular for the oil 12:26:06.2 companies. exxonmobil just announced a first quarter profits of over $8 billion. they now make more in a single quarter than they used to make in an entire year. they rewarded their c.e.o. with a retirement package totaling 12:26:22.6 nearly $400 million. well, it's a different story for the american people. gasoline prices have doubled, home heating prices have soared, natural gas prices have risen to unprecedented levels, and we are more dependent than ever on imported oil. 12:26:40.5 the republican leadership has a problem. they want desperately to blame state and local governments, to blame environmental requirements for the cost of gasoline. that's the myth they want to create, but the facts are completely different. 12:26:55.8 permits have been readily granted whenever refiners have applied for them. for instance, in hume aarizona, permits have been issued not once but twice for the construction of a new refinery, but the oil industry refuses to 12:27:11.1 actually invest and rebuild it. and recently this project may have been dealt a death blow when the mexican government announced it would not supply the refinery with crude oil. to the extent that there ever was a problem with permitting 12:27:28.4 refineries, the energy secretary has stated that the problem was solved in last year's energy bill. well, the state and territorial air plugs administrators delivered a letter to the house 12:27:41.0 that said this legislation would have the opposite effect that's intended. it would almost surely delay the permitting process. mr. chairman, we need to reject this legislation. it's based on a faulty premise, repeals the law that is said to 12:27:57.3 be successful, and replaces it with an approach that will delay the permitting process. and presumably it does all of this so that we can claim we've done something about gasoline prices. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from from new hampshire. 12:28:10.8 mr. bass: mr. speaker, i yield myself 30 seconds to simply say that it's interesting that my friend from california is now taking the same side as exxonmobil who oppose this is bill because they claim there's no need for a new refinery capacity. and i want point out that he 12:28:26.7 makes a great argument for the passage of this bill because this bill takes the argument that the government red tape and bureaucracy is holding up the process completely off the table. and if that doesn't lead to more production, more construction for passage of 12:28:42.3 this bill, i'll be the first to step forward and blast the industry for not creating more capacity. so i appreciate the apparent support that my friend from california has to making sure that this process, this permitting process is sped up, 12:28:57.4 and with that i yield -- i yield three minutes to my friend from illinois, mr. shimkus. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for three minutes. mr. shimkus: thank you, mr. speaker. i appreciate, mr. bass, your time. 12:29:13.1 and good new, i just heard from champion laboratories that make fuel filters that they're closing their mexico plant and adding 100 jobs back in new district in developing the line. so the economy is moving forward and that's good news 12:29:27.6 and sometimes we don't hear that. a lot of the focus on this debate is on crude oil and gas. and the fact that we import refined product, the fact that we import gasoline and not just crude oil should make us all concerned. 12:29:42.7 and that's really the premise of this debate. two years ago chairman alan greenspan stated at the economic club in new york that, he stated that, you know, we don't have any refineries, not just in the united states, but we don't have expanded refinery capacity in the world. 12:30:00.3 especially as we're making fuel products. and i have a quote right here, but for time i'll save that. but i want to focus on another provision of this bill. if you don't like big oil, support this bill. . if you don't like big oil, if 12:30:17.5 you have -- you want a competitor to crude oil gasoline, support this bill. why? because the incentives to increase the refinery capacity will also apply to biofuels. 29 new ethanol facilities are in illinois. 12:30:32.4 i drive an e-85 flexible fuel vehicle. 10 to 15 cents less a gallon. and two years ago, i did not have a single retail location in my district when i had a flexible fuel vehicle, a ford taurus. 12:30:50.2 now i have over 20 retail locations. that's good. and if we want to incentivize new competitors to big oil, we need new bio refineries that's in this bill. so all my ag friends need to look at this bill. 12:31:11.1 secondly, and i have here in this chamber my friends from the coal basin. another great way to defeat big oil is to get the rebirth of big coal. and b.t.u. conversion, taking our coal fields -- can you imagine this, a coal mine in 12:31:28.4 virginia, west virginia, kentucky, ohio, illinois, and on top of that coal mine, you put a refinery. look at all the issues that we address. no longer dependent on foreign crude oil, no longer having refineries on the coast where 12:31:43.6 they're subject to damage and destruction through hurricanes, diversified fuel refineries across this country, that's in this bill. so for all my friends who want to beat up on big oil, this is your opportunity to do this, to 12:32:01.4 incentivize renewable fuels, to incentivize coal to liquid. this is your opportunity. we'll get a chance to count the votes later on. i appreciate mr. bass and his time. and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the 12:32:14.0 gentleman from virginia. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, i yield to myself 15 seconds. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, i applaud the sentiments of my friend from illinois, with whom i've partnered on many coal-related issues over the years. and i certainly agree with him that we need to start building refineries that will turn coal 12:32:31.6 into a liquid fuel, but, mr. speaker, we don't need this bill to do it. and, mr. speaker, i yield two minutes to the gentlewoman from california, mrs. capps. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady is recognized for two minutes. 12:32:46.5 mrs. capps: i thank my colleague. thank you, mr. speaker. i rise in strong opposition to this ill-conceived legislation. nothing more than the shameless attempt to blame public health and environmental protections for the shortage of refinery capacity and high gas prices. first of all, public health and environmental laws are not impeding construction or 12:33:02.9 expansion of refineries. my colleague, mr. boucher, already quoted the c.e.o. for shell saying on record that he's not aware of any environmental regulations preventing us from expanding refinery capacity or citing a new refinery. 12:33:17.5 also, this bill will do nothing to lower gas prices in the short term or the long term. what it will do, however, is lead to increased pollution at the expense of public health, and that's why both state and local officials, air pollution control officials oppose this 12:33:33.4 bill. and i have here the letter which i know is being submitted to the record, state and territorial air pollution program administrators, the association of local air pollution control officials sent this letter in strong opposition to this bill. specifically, they say the 12:33:49.6 bill's new federal coordinator position is certain to lead to more, not less, delay in permitting. mr. speaker, the problem of high gas prices is serious. it affects businesses and families on a daily basis. i know that well because some of -- not on my time, i can't 12:34:09.1 -- mr. bass: the date of the letter? mrs. capps: the date of the letter, may 3, 2006. i know that, because gas prices in my district are usually the highest in the nation, and right now they're way over $3 a 12:34:22.5 gallon. but this bill doesn't do anything about that. it is, in fact, trying to 12:34:27.8 distract the american people from a failed republican energy strategy, a strategy that says if laws that protect public health or environment get in the way, then we should just waive them. this is a strategy that dooms america to never ending energy crises that consistently enrich 12:34:43.3 energy companies at the expense of hard-working american families and businesses and now their health. over the past several years we've had repeated chances to craft commonsense, effective energy legislation setting 12:34:57.0 america on a more stable future, but this republican congress has failed to do that. this failure has resulted in this bill. we should vote this harmful legislation down. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new hampshire. mr. bass: mr. speaker, how much time remains? 12:35:13.8 the speaker pro tempore: 3 1/2 minutes. mr. bass: and the other side? the speaker pro tempore: 7 1/2 over here. mr. bass: with that, mr. speaker, i yield one minute to my friend from illinois, mr. kirk. the speaker pro tempore: the 12:35:29.0 gentleman is recognized for one minute. mr. kirk: mr. chairman, i rise in support of this bill because it addresses one key problem, that the united states has not built a new refinery in america since the 1976 bicentennial, 30 12:35:47.3 years ago. over 50 million americans have moved to our country since then, but no new refineries. we can expand gas supplies and lower prices at the pump while strengthening our environmental 12:36:00.6 law through this legislation. and who doubts that we cannot make new refineries be cleaner than old refineries? this bill stands for the principle that we should simply coordinate our laws. written in different decades by 12:36:17.0 different congresses to yield environmental protection and more gasoline at the pumps. the population of the united states is expanding, so should our ability to provide gasoline to americans. we should do so not at the expense of the environment, and 12:36:36.3 this bill does not modify those statutes. it simply says the various federal bureaucracies should all be coordinated in one place. it makes common sense and helps us reduce pressure at the pump. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the 12:36:51.4 gentleman from virginia. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, at this time i'm pleased to yield three minutes to the gentleman from new jersey, mr. pascrell. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for three minutes. mr. pascrell: thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, a recent general accounting office investigation 12:37:11.3 in 2004, which i'm holding in my hand, concluded that gasoline refineries have intentionally limited their capacity to keep gasoline prices high and their profits up. 12:37:25.5 you didn't write this. i didn't write this. this is the general accounting office. for the consumers, these higher energy costs are a disaster for their pocketbooks and further stagnates our economy. 12:37:42.0 now, there's a difference here between what your side approaching the problem will do and what our side. question -- who's going in the right direction? 12:37:57.5 we've heard that a lot lately. former energy secretary, bill richardson, said that we are a 21st century superpower with a third world transmission grid. remember that debate a few years ago on utilities and electricity. 12:38:13.8 and who got blamed for it? and then we finally discovered that the industry itself was fooling the market and manipulating the market, and those character are on trial right now. 21st century superpower with a 12:38:31.5 third world refinery infrastructure, and that's what we've come to. this refinery legislation, which i will vote against, which is before us right now, is an effort to solidify our dependence on fossil fuel. 12:38:47.2 on one side of our mouth, we're saying we're addicted to oil. on the other side of our mouth, we're saying let's build more refineries, make it easier for more refineries to be built so that we can produce more gasoline. you want to streamline the permitting because you want to 12:39:03.1 produce more gasoline from fossil fuel. i must remind you that in a report presented by the rocky mountain institute in 2004, it was very specific, america's energy future is a choice, not 12:39:19.5 our fate. oil dependence is a problem with needn't have, and it's 12:39:27.2 cheaper not to. when the united states last paid attention to the oil efficiency problem, it was between 1977 and 1985. oil use fell 17%, gross product went up 27%. 12:39:40.3 during those eight years, oil imports fell 50% and imports for the persian gulf fell by 87%. that exercise of market muscle broke opec's pricing power for a decade. 12:39:55.5 look, the other side, in all due respect, you made your bed, you got to lay in it now, and you're trying to get out of it but you're doing it in the wrong way. this bill does nothing to increase refinery capacity in the first place, and it 12:40:10.9 certainly doesn't help lower gas prices. we've done a disservice to the american people, and we only confuse the issue. we either are addicted to oil or we're not. and if we are, let's go in a different direction. please join us. thank you, mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the 12:40:28.0 gentleman from new hampshire. mr. bass: mr. speaker, i yield myself 30 seconds just to say this is a very odd debate. one of the previous speakers said that this bill could do nothing to lower gasoline prices. if you increase refinery production, you're going to 12:40:43.3 have more supply, and obviously, more supply is going to lead to lower prices. another speaker said that this bill would somehow create more environmental pollution. the only -- it does absolutely nothing to change any existing environmental rule or 12:40:59.3 regulation. it just increases the time. so if you want less supply, higher prices, and the only reason you're against that is because you think that an additional refinery would create more pollution, then you should vote no on the bill. i believe, mr. speaker, that i have the right to close. 12:41:15.4 i have no further speakers, so i reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, at this time, i yield to myself the balance of our time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, this bill is not an effective way to address the gasoline refinery 12:41:32.7 shortage. it tramples on state environmental laws without solving the fundamental problem . the c.e.o.'s of the refining companies have testified to the congress that the permitting process is not burdensome. it has not prevented the 12:41:49.0 construction of needed new refineries, and yet this bill addresses the permitting process. for our part, democrats are more than willing to work with our republican colleagues and do so on a bipartisan basis to write a law that will make a 12:42:06.2 difference, a law that will get the needed new refineries built. we could produce and bring to the floor a bipartisan bill within a matter of days or at most, within a matter of weeks. and so what i would say to the 12:42:21.9 members of the house is reject this measure and then beginning this afternoon, let's sit down in a bipartisan exercise to draft a bill that addresses the fundamental need for new refineries. we pledge to you our best efforts to achieve that goal, 12:42:37.5 and we hope that you'll accept this offer. thank you, mr. speaker. i yield back the balance of my time and urge a no vote on the measure. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new hampshire. mr. bass: mr. speaker, i urge my colleagues to support the passage of this bill. 12:42:54.3 i will match my environmental record in this congress with anybody else's, and certainly my record in supporting the development of alternative energy resources. and quite frankly, this bill does just that, because the 12:43:10.3 expedited permitting process which does not in any way change the requirements for the process at all, but simply makes it more organized and more manageable also applies to coal to liquid and bio refineries, and this is 12:43:25.3 critical for my part of the country. we can't afford to wait five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years to increase our supplies not only of traditional motor fuels, but also these alternatives. we need to remove the uncertainty that a successive 12:43:44.8 permitting process creates and the chilling effect that it has on the ability of investors where large amounts of money are involved to stick with the process year after year after year after year. there is nothing in this bill that will reduce in any fashion the ability of the 12:44:01.6 environmental protection agency, the states, or any other entity to go through the appropriate process in order to permit a new refinery. but what it does do is for the first time in 30 years, make it incrementally more possible 12:44:16.8 that we'll get more capacity. so when your constituents call you and say that they're unhappy with the high cost of 12:44:25.0 fuel, remember that part of that high cost is associated with the fact that we have a very, very tight inventory of fuel in this country. as the chairman of the committee said a few minutes ago, we are consuming considerably more gasoline in this country than we're producing domestically, so some 12:44:40.1 of it is imported. our refineries are clustered in one region of the country. and if you want to answer your constituents by saying that you voted against a bill that would not have any environmental impact, but would simply make it possible for us to address this issue in a more timely, 12:44:56.4 quicker fashion, that's your choice. but we're doing what we can quickly and expeditiously and incrementally to address the issue of refinery capacity in this country. and i hope the house will adopt this bill, and i urge its passage. 12:45:10.9 i yield back the balance of my time. . the speaker pro tempore: the question is, will the house suspend the rules and pass the bill. so many as are in favor, aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, 12:45:31.5 2/3 of those presented having voted in the affirmative, the rules are suspended -- mr. boucher: mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from from virginia. mr. boucher: on that i "yeas and nays. the speaker pro tempore: the yeas and nays are requested. 12:45:47.4 a sufficient number having arisen the yeas and nays are order pursuant to clause 8 of rule 20 in the chair's prior announcement further proceedings on this question will be postponed. 12:46:01.1 12:46:30.0 the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from georgia rise. >> mr. speaker i move that the 12:46:35.4 house suspend the rules and pass house concurrent regulation 99 the speaker pro tempore: the clerk will report the title of the concurrent resolution. the clerk: concurrent resolution expressing the need for enhanced public awareness of traumatic brain injury in 12:46:51.5 support for the designation of a national brain injury awareness month. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the rule the gentleman from georgia, mr. deal, and the gentleman from ohio, mr. brown, each will control 20 minutes. the chair recognizes the gentleman georgia. 12:47:10.8 >> i ask that all legislative members have five days to extend their remarks on this legislation and to exeffort extraneous material on the bill. the speaker pro tempore: 12:47:24.7 without objection. >> mr. speaker, i rise today to -- in support of h.con res 99, a resolution expressing the need for enhanced awareness of traumatic brain injury and support for designation of a national brain injury awareness 12:47:41.6 month. i. to thank the sponsors of this legislation, congressman bill pascrell from new jersey, and congressman todd platts from pennsylvania, who are the co-chairs of the brain injury task force and i commend them for their leadership and hard work to increase the level of public awareness of this silent 12:47:59.6 epidemic of traumatic brain injury. despite the fact that each year an estimated 1.4 million americans have a traumatic brain injury, and permanently altering the lives of countless people, too few people are 12:48:15.2 aware of the dangers posed by these highly preventable injuries. to help address this problem house concurrent resolution 99 resolves that congress, one, recognizes the life altering impact traumatic brain injury may have both on americans 12:48:32.4 living with the resulting disabilities and on their families. two, recognizes the need for enhanced public awareness of traumatic brain injury. three, supports the designation of an appropriate month as national brain injury awareness month, and four, encourages the 12:48:48.1 president to issue a proclamation designating such a month. again, i commend mr. pascrell and mr. platts for their leadership on this issue and i encourage my colleagues to adopt the resolution and i would reserve the balance of my time. 12:49:02.8 the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from ohio, mr. brown. mr. brown: thank you, mr. speaker. the centers for disease control, i yield myself as much time as i may consume. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. brown: the centers for disease control and prevention estimates that there's over four million, five million 12:49:21.4 americans living with 12:49:23.8 disabilities resulting from traumatic brain injury. and in 1996, congress recognized the severity of brain injuries bypassing the traumatic brain injury act legislation that enhances 12:49:38.9 research and community living for people living with these injuries and for their families. but there's more to be done. every 21 seconds someone in our country sustains a traumatic brain injury. while half of these injuries result in only short-term disabilities, for others they 12:49:55.0 are far more serious. half a million of these americans die, including 2,800 children, less than 14 years of age. another 80,000 americans sustain severe long-term disabilities costing our health care system something in the 12:50:11.8 vicinity of $56 billion a year. but many of those disabilities are preventable. the problem is that most americans don't know when to classify an injury as a traumatic injury. they may not know on to recognize the signs of a serious injury which can be as 12:50:27.7 simple as recurring headaches or feeling tired or having difficulty concentrating. they don't know to get themselves to a medical professional before there's permanent damage, just because it feels like a bump in the head, you have to be aware of how you're feeling and acting. 12:50:44.4 your family and friends need to recognize the signals that something is wrong. this is particularly important for children who are less likelyly to recognize when they need to see a doctor. concurrent resolution 99 by my friend mr. pascrell and others 12:51:00.2 will help to increase america's awareness about the seriousness of traumatic brain injuries and the importance of getting checked out by health care professional after injury. to help meet that goal, this resolution supports the creation of a national brain injury awareness month, an event around which advocates 12:51:17.3 and providers can organize to educate the public and bring needed attention to this issue. i am pleased to support the resolution and i reserve the balance of my time, mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from georgia, mr. deal. mr. deal: i have no further requests for time and would 12:51:33.4 reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from ohio. mr. brown: mr. speaker, i yield three minutes to the gentleman from new jersey who sponsored this resolution, mr. pascrell. the speaker pro tempore: the 12:51:49.0 gentleman is recognized for three minutes. mr. pascrell: thank you, mr. chairman. my good friend from georgia, i thank you for bringing this to the floor and ranking member. i rise today mr. chairman, in support of house concurrent resolution 99, legislation 12:52:07.7 designed to bring attention to what i would call an american tragedy. a stealthy thief who can strike anyone at any time. without warning, and often with devastating consequences. 12:52:24.8 traumatic brain injury, t.b.i., is a leading cause of death and disability among young americans in the united states. as you've just heard someone will sustain a traumatic brain 12:52:40.2 injury every 21 seconds. we are talking about 1 1/2 million americans every year. more than 1.4 million sustain brain injuries, more than the incidents of h.i.v./aids, 12:52:55.8 spinal cord injury, even multiple sclerosis. 50,000 of those injured will die. 55 americans are living with t.b.i. right now. think about that, mr. chairman. these injuries manifest 12:53:11.5 themselves in a myriad of ways. from a small behavioral change to complete physical disability and even death. traumatic brain injury cost the country an estimated societyal cost of $60 billion every year, 12:53:28.9 and currently there is no cure. most of these injuries are due to falls, motor vehicle traffic crashes, violence. additionally due to the 12:53:42.0 changing nature of warfare american troops were suffering t.b.i. at an alarming rate. individuals with t.b.i. account for 2% of the total united states population. and represent nearly 10% of our 12:54:00.5 nation's disability population. 10%. yet despite these staggering statistics, lack of public awareness is so vast that t.b.i. remains a silent epidemic plaguing our nation. 12:54:15.2 the good news is that traumatic brain injury is often preventable. that is why awareness, 12:54:24.4 education are imperative. the resolution before the house today, mr. chairman, to designate a national brain injury awareness month will work toward enhancing public awareness, give this epidemic and its victims a voice. 12:54:38.5 former congressman jim greenwood from pennsylvania and i performed a congressional -- formed the congressional brain injury task force in 2001. today that task force which i 12:54:52.6 chair with my good friend congressman platts from pennsylvania -- the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. mr. pascrell: works to further awareness of brain injury, its 12:55:09.8 incidence, its prevalence, its prevention and treatment. the task force also supports funding for basic and applied research on brain injury rehab and the development of a cure. it's my hope that this 12:55:25.2 resolution will encourage americans to learn more about the long-lasting effects of brain injury and its impact on the civilian and the military communities. the traumatic brain injury act is the only legislation that specifically addresses issues 12:55:40.0 faced by people who live with long-term disability as a result of traumatic brain injury. it's successfully provided a foundation for coordinated and balanced public policy for people living with t.b.i. and their circles of support. 12:55:56.0 this law is due to be re-authorized and i look forward to continued congressional support to make it happen. and another important federal program, mr. chairman, is focused on t.b.i., traumatic brain injury, is the defense and veterans brain injury 12:56:11.8 center. our armed services, for our armed forces t.b.i. is an important clinical problem in peace and war and the consequences may stem for many years. the defense and veterans brain injury center was established 12:56:27.2 in 1992 after operation desert storm. millwood military doctors are naming traumatic brain injury as a result of a blast, the signature wound of the war in iraq. because soldiers are now 12:56:42.4 equipped with the state-of-the-art body armor they are living through attacks that troops in past wars were unable to survive. systemwide, the they have evaluated 1,400 military personnel with t.b.i. 12:56:59.6 the troops evacuated to walter reed medical center, of those troops, 28% had traumatic brain injury. these combat medics and surgeons and general medical 12:57:15.5 officers -- just 30 seconds, please. and reserve the recognition and best practices of t. bimplet care and provides continuity of care to the battlefield and back to active duty or civilian 12:57:33.5 life. continued congressional support is vital. traumatic brain injury is a unique issue, an epidemic so past that it's almost overwhelming and so personal it defies definition. 12:57:50.8 passage of this resolution will confirm our commitment to awareness and prevention and research. i encourage my colleagues to vote in favor of this concurrent resolution 99, to designate a national brain injury awareness month in 12:58:06.5 support of our common goal, eradication of traumatic brain injury as a debilitating and costly and plague on human kind. i would like to say in conclusion, mr. chairman, that what happens in the past five 12:58:21.0 or six years has given us hope in developing that part of the brain which has not been injured to compensate for that part which has been injured. we are truly living in great times, and i thank you for your courtesy and i thank the ranking member and i thank the 12:58:37.6 chairman. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from ohio. mr. kucinich: i have no further speakers. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the 12:58:51.5 gentleman from georgia. >> i urge the adoption of the resolution. the speaker pro tempore: the question is, will the house suspend the rules and agree to house concurrent resolution 99. so many as in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, 12:59:09.6 2/3 of those presented having voted in the affirmative, the rules are suspended, the concurrent resolution is agreed to and without objection the motion to reconsider is laid on the table. 12:59:22.2 the gentleman from from georgia. >> i move that the house suspend the rules and pass house resolution 245 with an amendment. the speaker pro tempore: the clerk will report the title of the resolution. the clerk: house resolution 12:59:34.4 245, resolution supporting the goals and ideas of national nurses week. the speaker pro tempore: pursubte to the rule the gentleman from georgia, mr. deal, and the gentleman from ohio, mr. brown, each control 20 minutes. the chair recognizes the gentleman georgia. 12:59:51.2 mr. deal: i ask unanimous consent that all members may have five legislative days in which to revise and extend my remarks on this lugs and insert extraneous material on the bill. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. deal: mr. speaker, i yield myself as much time as i may

HOUSE FLOOR DEBATE: The House meets for legislative business. Votes will be postponed until 3:30 p.m. A Quorum will be called for at approximately 3:30 p.m. The House Floor will be cleared at approximately 5:00 p.m. in order to provide time for a security sweep of the House Chamber prior to the President's State of the Union Address. The House will reconvene at 8:45 p.m. in joint session with the Senate for the purpose of receiving a State of the Union Address from the President of the United States. 21:00:19.8 >> mr. speaker, the dean of the 21:00:22.4 diplomatic core. -- corps. 21:01:01.9 >> mr. speaker, the chief justice and associate justices of the supreme court. 21:02:02.2 >> mr. speaker, the president's cabinet. 21:08:01.2 >> mr. speaker, the president of the united states. 21:11:24.5 the speaker: members of congress, i have the high privilege and distinct honor of 21:11:30.0 presenting to you the president of the united states. 21:12:04.7 president bush: mr. speaker, vice president cheney, members of congress, members of the 21:12:08.7 supreme court, and diplomatic corps, distinguished guests, and fellow citizens today our nation lost a beloved, graceful, courageous woman who called america to its founding ideals and carried on a noble 21:12:25.4 dream. tonight we are comforted by the hope of a glad reunion with the husband who was taken so long ago and we are grateful for the good life of coretta scott king. 21:12:47.2 21:13:06.8 every time i'm invited to this rostrum i'm humbled by the privilege and mindful of the history we have seen together. we have gathered under this capitol dome in moments of national mourning and national 21:13:21.2 achievement. we have served america through one of the most consequential periods of our history and it it has been my honor to serve with you. in a system of two parties, two chambers, and two elected 21:13:36.6 branches, there will always be differences and debate. but even tough debates can be conducted in a civil tone and our differences cannot be allowed to harden into anger. to confront the great issues before us we must act in a 21:13:53.1 spirit of good will and respect for one another and will i do my part. tonight the state of the union is strong and together we will make it stronger. in this decisive year you and i 21:14:16.5 will make choices that will determine both the future and the character of our country. we will choose to act confidently in pursuing the enemies of freedom or retreat from our duties in the hope of an easier life. 21:14:32.2 we will choose to build our prosperity by leading the world economy or shut ourselves off from trade and opportunity. in a complex and challenging time, the road of isolationism 21:14:46.9 and protectionism may seem broad and inviting. yet it ends in danger and decline. the only way to protect our people, the only way to secure the peace, the only way to control our destiny is by our 21:15:03.9 leadership so the united states of america will continue to lead. abroad our nation is committed 21:15:19.1 to an historic, long-term goal. we seek the end end of tyranny in our world. some dismiss that goal as misguided idealism. in reality, the future security of america depends on it. on september 11, 2001, we found 21:15:37.1 that problems originating in a failed and oppressive state, 7,000 miles away could bring murder and destruction to our country. dictatorships shelter terrorists and feed resentment 21:15:50.7 and radicalism and seek weapons of mass destruction. democracies replace resentment with hope, respect the rights of their citizens and their neighbors, and join the fight against terror. every step toward freedom in 21:16:07.4 the world makes our country safer so we will act boldly in freedom's cause. far from being a hopeless 21:16:25.6 dream, the advance of freedom is the great story of our time. in 1945, there were about two dozen lonely democracies in the world. today there are 122. and we are writing a new 21:16:40.3 chapter in the story of self-government, with rim lining up to vote in -- women lining up to vote in afghanistan and millions of iraqis marking their liberty with purple ink, and men and women from lebanon to egypt debating the rights of 21:16:54.8 individuals and the necessity of freedom. at the start of 2006, more than half the people of our world live in democratic nations, and we do not forget the other half. in places like syria and burma, 21:17:12.2 zimbabwe, north korea, and iran, because the demands of justice and the peace of this world require their freedom as well. no one can deny the success of 21:17:33.5 freedom, but some men rage and fight against it. and one of the main sources of reaction and opposition is radical islam. the perversion by a few of a noble faith into an ideology of terror and death. 21:17:50.4 terrorists like bin laden are serious about mass murder, and all of us must take their declared intentions seriously. they seek to impose a heartless system of totalitarian control throughout the middle east and 21:18:03.9 arm themselves with weapons of mass murder. their aim is to seize power in iraq and use it as a safe haven to launch attacks against america and the world. lacking the military strength to challenge us directly, the terrorists have chosen the 21:18:23.3 weapon of fear when they murder children or blow up commuters in london or behead a bound captive. the terrorists hope these horrors will break our will, 21:18:37.6 allowing the violent to inherit the earth. but they have miscalculated. we love our freedom and we will fight to keep it. 21:19:10.9 in a time of testing, we cannot find security by abandoning our 21:19:16.9 commitments and retreating within our borders. if we were to leave these vicious attackers alone, they would not leave us alone. they would simply move the battlefield to our own shores. there is no peace in retreat. 21:19:34.0 and there is no honor in retreat. by allowing radical islam to work its will, by leaving an assaulted world to fend for itself, we would signal to all that we no longer believe in our own ideals or even in our 21:19:51.5 own courage, bur our enemies and our friends can be certain, the united states will not retreat from the world and we will never surrender to evil. 21:20:22.4 america rejects the false comfort of isolationism. we are the nation that saved 21:20:29.0 liberty in europe and liberated death camps and helped raise up democracies and face down an evil empire. once again we accept the call of history to deliver the oppressed and move this world toward peace. 21:20:43.7 we remain on the offensive against terror networks. we have killed or captured many of their leaders, and for the others, their day will come. we remain on the offensive in afghanistan, where a fine president and national assembly 21:21:01.0 are fighting terror while building the institutions of a new democracy. we are on the offensive in iraq with a clear plan for victory. first we are helping iraqis build an inclusive government so that old resentments will be eased and the insurgency will 21:21:17.2 be marginalized. second, we are continuing reconstruction efforts in helping the iraqi government to fight corruption and build a modern economy so all iraqis can experience the benefits of freedom. 21:21:30.4 and third, we are striking terrorist targets while we train iraqi forces that are increasingly capable of defeating the enemy. iraqis are showing their courage every day and we are proud to be their allies in the cause of freedom. our work in iraq is difficult 21:21:58.0 because our enemy is brutal. but that brutality has not stopped the dramatic progress of new democracy. in less than three years, the 21:22:07.7 nation has gone from dictatorship to liberation to sovereignty, to a constitution, to national elections. at the same time, our coalition has been relentless in shutting off terrorist infiltration, clearing out insurgent 21:22:24.5 strongholds and turning over territory to iraqi security forces. i am confident in our plan for victory. i am confident in the will of the iraqi people. i am confident in the skill and spirit of our military fellow citizens, we are in this fight to win, and we are winning. 21:22:59.0 the road of victory is the road 21:23:00.5 that will take our troops home. as we make progress on the ground and iraqi forces increasingly take the lead, we should be able to further decrease our troop levels. but those decisions will be made by our military 21:23:17.3 commanders, not by politicians in washington, d.c. our coalition has learned from 21:23:40.0 our experience in iraq, we have adjusted our military tactics and changed our approach to reconstruction. along the way we have benefited from responsible criticism and counsel, offered by members of congress of both parties. 21:23:56.7 in the coming year, i will continue to reach out and seek your guide advice. yet there is a difference between responsible criticism that aims for success and defeatism that refuses to acknowledge anything but failure. 21:24:11.3 hindsight alone is not wisdom. second-guessing is not a strategy. with so much in the balance, 21:24:27.1 those of us in public office have a duty to speak with candor. a sudden withdrawal of our forces from iraq will would abandon our iraqi forces to death in prison. it would put men like bin laden in charge of a strategic country and show that a pledge 21:24:45.9 from america means little. members of congress, however we feel about the decisions and debates of the past, our nation has only one option. we must keep our word. defeat our enemies and stand behind the american military in 21:25:00.5 this vital mission. 21:25:26.6 our men and women in uniform are making sacrifices and showing a sense of duty 21:25:33.4 stronger than all fear. they know what it's like to fight house to house in a maze of streets, to wear heavy gear in the desert heat, to see a comrade killed by a roadside bomb, and those who know the 21:25:50.2 cost also know the stakes. marine staff sergeant dan clay was killed last month fighting in fallujah. he left behind a letter to his family, but his words could just as well be addressed to every american. 21:26:07.1 here is what dan wrote. i know what honor is. it has been an honor to protect and serve all of you. i faced death with the secure knowledge that you would not have to. 21:26:22.8 never falter. don't hesitate to honor and support those of us who had the honor of protecting that which is worth protecting. staff sergeant dan clay's wife lisa and his mom and dad are with us this evening. 21:26:38.0 welcome. 21:27:10.7 21:27:26.2 21:27:35.2 our nation is grateful to the fallen who live in the memory of our country. we are grateful to all who volunteer to wear our nation's 21:27:43.7 uniform and as we honor our brave troops, let us never forget the sacrifices of america's military families. our offensive against terror 21:28:15.4 involves more than military action. ultimately the only way to defeat the terrorists is to defeat their dark vision of hatred and fear, by offering the hopeful alternative of political freedom and peaceful change. 21:28:31.5 so the united states of america supports democratic reform across the broader middle east. elections are vital, but they are only the beginning. raising up a democracy requires the rule of law and protection of minorities and strong, 21:28:48.1 accountable institutions that last longer than a single vote. the great people of egypt have voted in a multiparty presidential election, and now their government should open paths of peaceful opposition that will reduce the appeal of radicalism. 21:29:05.2 the palestinian people have voted in elections, and now the leaders of hamas must recognize israel, disarm, reject terrorism, and work for lasting peace. saudi arabia has taken the 21:29:39.7 first steps of reform. now it can offer its people a better future by pressing forward with those efforts. democracies in the middle east will not look like our own because they will reflect the traditions of their own citizens. 21:29:55.4 yet liberty is the future of every nation in the middle east because liberty is the right and hope of all humanity. the same is true of iran. a nation now held hostage by a 21:30:14.2 small clerical elite that is isolating and repressing its people. the regime in that country sponsors terrorists in the palestinian territories and in lebanon, and that must come to an end. the iranian government is 21:30:34.5 defying the world with its nuclear ambitions and the nations of the world must not permit the iranian regime to gain nuclear weapons. america will continue to rally 21:31:01.3 the world to confront these threats. tonight let me speak directly to the citizens of iran. america respects you and we respect your country. we respect your right to choose your own future and win your own freedom. 21:31:18.1 and our nation hopes one day to be the closest of friends with a free and democratic iran. to overcome dangers in our 21:31:35.8 world we must also take the offensive by encouraging economic progress in fighting disease and spreading hope in hopeless lands. isolationism would not only tie our hands in fighting enemies, it would keep us from helping our friends in desperate need. 21:31:53.6 we show compassion abroad 21:31:55.9 because americans believe in the god-given dignity and worth of a villager with hiv-aids. or an infant with malaria, or a refugee fleeing genocide, or a young girl sold into slavery. we also show compassion abroad 21:32:12.7 because regions overwhelmed by poverty, corruption, and despair are sources of terrorism and organized crime and human trafficking and the drug trade. in recent years you and i have taken unprecedented action to 21:32:27.6 fight aids and malaria. expand the education of girls, and reward developing nation that is are moving forward with economic and political reform. for people everywhere the united states is a partner for a better life. 21:32:44.3 shortchanging these efforts would increase the suffering and chaos of our world, undercut our long-term security, and dull the conscience of our country. i urge members of congress to serve the interests of america by showing the compassion of 21:32:59.2 america. our country must also remain on the offensive against terrorism here at home. the enemy has not lost the desire or capability to attack us. fortunately this nation has 21:33:14.9 superb professionals in law enforcement, intelligence, the military, and homeland security. these men and women are dedicating their lives to protecting us all and they deserve our support and our thanks. they also deserve the same 21:33:51.2 tools they already used to fight drug trafficking and organized crime so i ask you to re-authorize the patriot act. it is said prior to the attacks 21:34:17.0 of september 11 our government failed to connect the dots of the conspiracy. we now know that two of the hijackers in the united states placed telephones calls to al qaeda operatives overseas. but we did not know about their 21:34:32.3 plans until it was too late. so to prevent another attack based on authority given to me by the constitution and by statute i have authorized a surveillance program to aggressively pursue the 21:34:47.4 international communications of suspected al qaeda operatives and affiliates to and from america. previous presidents have used the same constitutional authority i have and federal courts have approved the use of that authority. appropriate members of congress 21:35:02.7 have been kept informed. the terrorists surveillance program has helped prevent terrorist attacks, it remains essential to the security of america, if there are people inside our country who are talking with al qaeda, we want to know about it because we 21:35:18.5 will not sit back and wait to be hit again. in all these areas from the 21:35:52.6 disruption of terror networks to victory in iraq, to the spread of freedom and hope in troubled regions, we need the support of our friends and allies. to draw that support we must always be clear in our principals and willing to act. 21:36:08.8 the only alternative to american leadership is a dramatically more dangerous and anxious world. yet we also choose to lead because it is a privilege to serve the values that gave us birth. american leaders from roosevelt 21:36:23.3 to truman to kennedy to reagan rejected isolation and retreat because they knew that america is always more secure when freedom is on the march. our own generation is in a long war against a determined enemy. 21:36:39.5 a war that will be fought by presidents of both parties who will need steady bipartisan support from the congress. and tonight i ask for yours, together let us protect our country, support the men and 21:36:54.4 women who defend us, and lead this world toward freedom. here at home america also has a 21:37:18.6 great opportunity. we will build the prosperity of our country by strengthening our economic leadership in the world. our economy is healthy and vigorous and growing faster than other major industrialized nations. 21:37:34.1 in the last 2 1/2 years america has created 4.6 million new jobs, more than japan and the european union combined. even in the face of higher 21:37:51.7 energy prices and national disasters, the american people have turned in an economic performance that is the envy of the world. the american economy is pre-eminent but we cannot afford to be complacent. in a dynamic world economy we 21:38:08.3 are seeing new competitors like china and india and this creates uncertainty which makes it easier to feed people's fears. so we are seeing some old temptations return, protectionists want to escape 21:38:24.2 competition pretending we can keep our high standard of living while walling off our economy. others say the government needs to take a larger role in directing the economy, centralizing more power in washington and increasing taxes. 21:38:38.7 we hear claims that immigrants are somehow bad for the economy , even though this economy could not function without them. all these are forms of economic 21:39:07.1 retreat. and they lead in the same direction, toward a stagnant and second-rate economy. tonight i will set out a better path, an agenda for a nation that competes with confidence, an agenda that will raise 21:39:21.1 standards of living and generate new jobs. americans should not fear our economic future because we intend to shape it. keeping america competitive begin was keeping our economy growing and our economy grows when americans have more of 21:39:38.4 their own money to spend, save, and invest. in the last five years the tax relief you passed has left $880 billion in the hands of american workers, investors, small businesses, and families and they have used it to help 21:39:53.9 produce more than four years of uninterrupted economic growth. yet the tax relief is set to 21:40:09.1 expire in the next few years. if we do nothing, american families will face a 345sive tax increase, they do not expect and will not welcome. because america needs more than a temporary expansion, we need more than temporary tax relief. 21:40:25.6 i urge the congress to act responsibly and make the tax cuts permanent. keeping america competitive 21:40:52.6 requires us to be good stewards of tax dollars. every year of my presidency we have reduced the growth of nondiscretionary spending. last year you passed bills that cut the spending. this year my budget will cut it again and reduce or eliminate more than 140 programs that are 21:41:10.6 performing poorly or not fulfilling essential priorities . by passing these reforms, we will save the american taxpayer another $14 billion next year and stay on track to cut the deficit in half by 2009. i am pleased that members of 21:41:46.0 congress are working on earmark reform because the federal budget has too many special 21:41:53.2 interest projects. and we can tackle this problem together if you pass the line item veto. we must also confront the 21:42:15.2 larger challenge of mandatory spending or entitlements. this year the first of about 78 million baby boomers turn 60, including two of my dad's favorite people, me and president clinton. this milestone is more than a 21:42:35.7 personal crisis. it is a national challenge. the retirement of the baby-boom generation will put unprecedented strains on the federal government. by 2030, spending for social security, medicare, and medicaid alone will be almost 21:42:51.5 60% of the entire federal budget. and that will present a future congresses with impossible choices, staggering tax increases, immense deficits, or deep cuts in every category of spending. 21:43:07.0 congress did not act last year on my proposal to save social security -- yet the rising costs of entitlements is not -- 21:43:34.0 is a problem that is not going away. and every year we fail to act, 21:43:51.1 the situation gets worse. so tonight i ask you to join me in creating a commission to examine the full impact of baby boom retirements on social security, medicare, and medicaid. this commission should include members of congress of both parties and offer bipartisan 21:44:07.2 solutions. we need to put aside partisan politics and work together and get this problem solved. keeping america competitive 21:44:37.8 requires us to open more markets for all that americans make and grow. one out of every five factory jobs in america is related to global trade and we want people everywhere to buy american. with open markets and a level playing field, no one can 21:44:55.8 outproduce or outcompete the american worker. keeping america competitive 21:45:14.9 requires an immigration system that upholds our laws, reflects our values, and serves the interests of our economy. our nation needs orderly and secure borders. to meet this goal, we must have 21:45:33.7 stronger immigration enforcement and border protection. and we must have a rational, humane guest worker program that rejects amnesty, allows temporary jobs for people who 21:45:49.7 seek them legally, and reduces smuggling and crime at the border. keeping america competitive 21:46:06.7 requires affordable health care. our government has a 21:46:23.6 responsibility to provide health care for the poor and the elderly and we are meeting that responsibility. for all americans, we must confront the rising cost of care, strengthen the doctor-patient relationship, 21:46:38.0 and help people afford the insurance coverage they need. we will make wider use of electronic records and other health information technology to help control costs and reduce dangerous medical 21:46:51.7 errors. we will strengthen health savings accounts, making sure individuals and small business employees can buy insurance with the same advantages that people working for big businesses now get. we will do more to make this 21:47:12.5 coverage portable so workers can switch jobs without having to worry about losing their health insurance. and because lawsuits are driving many good doctors out of practice, leaving women and 21:47:28.2 nearly 1,500 american counties without a single ob/gyn, i ask the congress to pass medical liability reform this year. keeping america competitive 21:47:54.1 requires affordable energy, and here we have a serious problem. america is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world. the best way to break this addiction is through technology. 21:48:08.7 since 2001, we have spent nearly $10 billion to develop cleaner, cheaper, and more reliable alternative energy sources, and we are on the threshold of incredible advances. so tonight i announce the advance energy initiative, a 22% increase in clean energy 21:48:25.1 research at the department of energy, to push for breakthroughs in two vital areas, to change how we power our homes and offices, we will invest more in zero emission coal fired plants, revolutionary solar and wind 21:48:40.6 technologies, and clean, safe nuclear energy. we must also change how we 21:49:00.1 power our automobiles. we will increase our research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars and for cars that run on hydrogen. we will fund additional research and cutting edge methods of producing ethanol, 21:49:14.4 not just from corn but from wood chips or switch grass. our goal is to make this new kind of ethanol practical and competitive within six years. breakthroughs on this and other 21:49:42.5 new technologies will help us reach another great goal, to replace more than 75% of our oil imports from the middle east by 2025. by applying the talent and technology of america, this country can dramatically 21:49:59.1 improve our environment, move beyond a petroleum-based economy, and make our dependence on middle eastern oil a thing of the past. and to keep america 21:50:28.0 competitive, one commitment is necessary above all. we must continue to lead the world in human talent and creativity. our greatest advantage in the world has always been our educated, hard-working, ambitious people, and we are going to keep that edge. 21:50:43.5 tonight i announce an american competitiveness initiative to encourage innovation throughout our economy and to give our nation's children a firm grounding in math and science. first, i propose to double the 21:51:09.7 federal commitment to the most critical basic research programs in the physical sciences over the next 10 years. this funding will support the work of america's most creative minds as they explore promising areas such as nanotechnology and supercomputing and alternative energy sources. 21:51:27.0 second, i propose to make permanent the research and development tax credit, to encourage bolder private sector initiative in technology. with more research in both the public and private sectors, we will improve our quality of 21:51:41.9 life and ensure that america will lead the world in opportunity and innovation for decades to come. 21:52:01.3 third, we need to encourage children to take more math and 21:52:04.0 science and to make sure those courses are rigorous enough to compete with other nations. we made a good start in the early grades with the no child left behind act, which is raising standards and lifting test scores across our country. tonight i propose to train 21:52:20.7 70,000 high school teachers to lead advanced placement courses in math and science. bring 30,000 math and science professionals to teach in classrooms and give early help to students who struggle with math so they have a better chance at good, high wage jobs. 21:52:36.9 if we ensure that america's children succeed in life, they will ensure that america succeeds in the world. preparing our nation to compete 21:52:59.5 in the world is a goal that all of us can share. i urge you to support the american competitiveness initiative and together we will show the world what the american people can achieve. america is a great force for freedom and prosperity. yet our greatness is not 21:53:16.4 measured in power or luxuries but by who we are and how we treat one another. so we strive to be a compassionate, decent, hopeful society. in recent years, america has become a more hopeful nation. violent crime rates have fallen 21:53:33.3 to their lowest levels since the 1970's. welfare cases have dropped by more than half over the past decade. drug use among youth is down 19% since 2001. there are fewer abortions in 21:53:48.7 america than at any point in the last three decades, and the number of children born to teenage mothers has been falling for a dozen years in a row. these gains are evidence of a 21:54:09.5 quiet transformation, a revolution of conscience in which a rising generation is finding that a life of personal responsibility is a life of fulfillment. government has played a role. wise policies such as welfare reform and drug education and 21:54:25.5 support for abstinence and adoption have made a difference in the character of our country, and everyone here tonight, democrat and republican, has a right to be proud of this record. yet many americans, especially 21:54:52.0 parents, still have deep concerns about the direction of our culture and the health of our most basic institutions. they're concerned about unethical conduct by public officials and discouraged by activist courts that try to redefine marriage. 21:55:07.0 they worry about children in our society who need direction and love and about fellow citizens still displaced by natural disaster and about suffering caused by treatable diseases. as we look at these challenges, we must never give in to the belief that america is in 21:55:24.0 decline or that our culture is doomed to unravel. the american people know better than that. we have proven the pessimists wrong before, and we will do it again. a hopeful society depends on 21:55:45.1 courts that deliver equal justice under the law. the supreme court now has two superb new members on its bench, chief justice john roberts and justice sam alito. 21:56:15.0 i thank the senate for confirming both of them. i will continue to nominate men and women who understand that judges must be servants of the law and not legislate from the bench. 21:56:31.5 today marks the official retirement of a very special american. for 24 years of faithful service to our nation, the united states is grateful to justice sandra day o'connor. 21:57:05.9 a hopeful society has 21:57:07.1 institutions of science and medicine that do not cut ethical corners and that recognize the value of every life. tonight i ask you to pass legislation to prohibit the most egregious abuses of medical research, human cloning in all its forms, creating or 21:57:24.4 implanting embryos for experiments, creating human animal hybrids and buying, selling or patenting human embryos. human life is a gift from our creator and that gift should never be discarded, devalued or 21:57:40.0 put up for sale. a hopeful society expects 21:57:58.6 elected officials to uphold the public trust. honorable people in both parties are working on reforms to strengthen the ethical standards of washington. i support your efforts. each of us has made a pledge to be worthy of public 21:58:16.1 responsibility, and that is a pledge we must never forget, never dismiss, and never betray. as we renew the promise of our 21:58:38.7 institutions, let us also show the character of america in our compassion and care for one another. a hopeful society gives special attention to children who lack direction and love. through the helping america's youth initiative, we are 21:58:54.2 encouraging caring adults to get involved in the life of a child, and this good work is being led by our first lady, laura bush. 21:59:21.2 this year we will add resources to encourage young people to stay in school, so more of america's youth can raise their sights and achieve their dreams. a hopeful society comes to the 21:59:31.6 aid of fellow citizens in times of suffering and emergency and stays at it until they're back on their feet. so far the federal government has committed $85 billion to the people of the gulf coast in new orleans. we are removing debris and repairing highways and 21:59:48.1 rebuilding stronger levees. we are providing business loans and housing assistance. yet as we meet these immediate needs, we must also address deeper challenges that existed before the storm arrived. in new orleans and in other places, many of our fellow citizens have felt excluded 22:00:04.0 from the promise of our country. the answer is not only temporary relief but schools that teach every child and job skills that bring upward mobility and more opportunities to own a home and start a business. as we recover from a disaster, let us also work for the day 22:00:21.7 when all americans are protected by justice, equal in hope and rich in opportunity. a hopeful society acts boldly 22:00:43.3 to fight diseases like hiv-aids. which can be prevented and treated and defeated. more than a million americans live with h.i.v. and half of all aids cases occur among african-americans. 22:00:57.2 i ask congress to reform and re-authorize the ryan white act and provide new funding to states so we end the waiting list for aids medicines in america. we will also lead a nationwide 22:01:21.6 effort, working closely with african-american churches and faith-based groups to deliver rapid h.i.v. tests to millions, end the stigma of aids, and come closer to the day when there are no new infections in america. fellow citizens, we have been 22:01:41.4 called to leadership in a 22:01:43.6 period of consequence, we have entered a great ideological conflict we did nothing to invite, we see great changes in science and commerce that will influence all our lives. sometimes it can seem that history is turning in a wide 22:01:58.2 arc toward an unknown shore, yet the destination of history is determined by human action and every great movement of history comes to a point of choosing. lincoln could have accepted peace at the cost of disunity 22:02:14.6 and continued slavery, martin luther king could have stopped at birmingham or selma and achieved only a half a victory, the united states could have accepted the permanent division of europe and been complicit in the oppression of others. 22:02:29.1 today having come far in our own historical journey, we must decide will we turn back or finish well? before history is written down in books it is written in courage. 22:02:44.2 like americans before us, we will show that courage and we will finish well. we will lead freedom's advance. we will compete and excel in the global economy. we will renew the defining moral commitments of this land. and so we move forward, 22:03:02.7 optimistic about our country, faithful to its cause, and confident of the victories to come. may god bless america. 22:11:14.8 the speaker: the chair declares the joint session of the two houseses now dissolved. 22:11:20.4 >> mr. speaker. the speaker: the house will now be in order. for what purpose does the gentleman from virginia rise? >> i move that the message of 22:11:29.1 the president be referred to the committee of the whole house on the state of the union and ordered printed. the speaker: without objection, so ordered. the gentleman from virginia. mr. good lath: i move that the house do now adjourn. the speaker: the question is on 22:11:43.3 the motion to adjourn. so many as are in favor say aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it. the motion is agreed to. accordingly the house stands adjourned until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow.

FTG OF THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT GEORGE W BUSH AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MASS) MODERATED BY ABC ANCHOR CHARLES GIBSON / DEBATE SWITCHED AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY. 20:43:30 NATS INT FTG OF DEBATE IN PROGRESS AS GIBSON ADDRESSES THE AUDIENCE. 20:48:33 FTG OF FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH AND KERRY'S WIFE, TERESA HEINZ KERRY ARE INTRODUCED. 21:01:50 GIBSON INTRODUCTIONS. 21:03:30 BUSH AND KERRY ARRIVE AND SHAKE HANDS. 21:03:59 GIBSON: Gentlemen, to the business at hand. The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me. 21:04:10 Cheryl Ann Otis OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too wishy-washy. Do you have a reply for them? KERRY: Yes, I certainly do. (LAUGHTER) 21:04:28 KERRY: But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington University for hosting us here this evening. Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening, sir. Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other. Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican Party thinks we ought to change a few things. KERRY: No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I support the goals. But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion. Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers. You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child Left Behind Act to help your education system here. So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it. So these are the differences. Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to lose jobs. I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy- washy. I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong. KERRY: I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000 or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:06:30 BUSH: Charlie, thank you, and thank our panelists. And, Senator, thank you. I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well. I can see why people at your workplace think he changes positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for it. And that sends a confusing signal to people. He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. BUSH: No, I can see why people think that he changes position quite often, because he does. You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions. I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics. He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty, created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income Americans. That's right at the middle class. BUSH: He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've got to be firm and consistent. GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next questioner. The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is Robin Dahle. 21:08:15 Robin Dahle DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed this knowledge to our terrorist enemies." Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable justification for invasion when this statement applies to so many other countries, including North Korea? 21:08:50 BUSH: Each situation is different, Robin. And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to hurt us. In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all. I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been brought to justice. That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to plan. BUSH: And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted to restart his weapons programs. We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a grave threat. I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why. But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more dangerous. BUSH: Thank you, sir. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:10:57 KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question. I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl, at the same time. The world is more dangerous today. The world is more dangerous today because the president didn't make the right judgments. Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He wants you to believe that because he can't come here and tell you that he's created new jobs for America. He's lost jobs. He can't come here and tell you that he's created health care for Americans because, what, we've got 5 million Americans who have lost their health care, 96,000 of them right here in Missouri. He can't come here and tell you that he's left no child behind because he didn't fund no child left behind. So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to believe that I can't be president. And he's trying to make you believe it because he wants you to think I change my mind. KERRY: Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat. Believed it in 1998 when Clinton was president. I wanted to give Clinton the power to use force if necessary. But I would have used that force wisely, I would have used that authority wisely, not rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. I would have brought our allies to our side. I would have fought to make certain our troops had everybody possible to help them win the mission. This president rushed to war, pushed our allies aside. And Iran now is more dangerous, and so is North Korea, with nuclear weapons. He took his eye off the ball, off of Osama bin Laden. GIBSON: Mr. President, I do want to follow up on this one, because there were several questions from the audience along this line. BUSH: (OFF-MIKE) GIBSON: Go ahead. Go ahead. (CROSSTALK) GIBSON: Well, I was going to have you do the rebuttal on it, but you go ahead. (LAUGHTER) You're up. 21:12:38 BUSH: You remember the last debate? BUSH: My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, "Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well." Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein. GIBSON: Senator? 21:13:15 KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective. And if we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq. And right now, Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war against terror. GIBSON: We're going to have another question now on the subject of Iraq. GIBSON: And I'm going to turn to Anthony Baldi with a question for Senator Kerry. Mr. Baldi? Anthony G Baldi BALDI: Senator Kerry, the U.S. is preparing a new Iraq government and will proceed to withdraw U.S. troops. Would you proceed with the same plans as President Bush? 21:14:08 KERRY: Anthony, I would not. I have laid out a different plan, because the president's plan is not working. You see that every night on television. There's chaos in Iraq. King Abdullah of Jordan said just yesterday or the day before you can't hold elections in Iraq with the chaos that's going on today. Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. KERRY: Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee. Now, I have to tell you, I would do something different. I would reach out to our allies in a way that this president hasn't. He pushed them away time and again, pushed them away at the U.N., pushed them away individually. Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the North Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed the possibility of a small training unit or having a total takeover of the training in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total training of Iraq? No. Were they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to bring all the allies together around that? No, because they've always wanted this to be an American effort. You know, they even had the Defense Department issue a memorandum saying, "Don't bother applying for assistance or for being part of the reconstruction if you weren't part of our original coalition." KERRY: Now, that's not a good way to build support and reduce the risk for our troops and make America safer. I'm going to get the training done for our troops. I'm going to get the training of Iraqis done faster. And I'm going to get our allies back to the table. 21:16:01 BUSH: Two days ago in the Oval Office, I met with the finance minister from Iraq. He came to see me. And he talked about how optimistic he was and the country was about heading toward elections. Think about it: They're going from tyranny to elections. He talked about the reconstruction efforts that are beginning to take hold. He talked about the fact that Iraqis love to be free. He said he was optimistic when he came here, then he turned on the TV and listened to the political rhetoric and all of a sudden he was pessimistic. Now, this is guy a who, along with others, has taken great risk for great freedom. And we need to stand with him. My opponent says he has a plan; it sounds familiar, because it's called the Bush plan. We're going to train troops, and we are. We'll have 125,000 trained by the end of December. We're spending about $7 billion. BUSH: He talks about a grand idea: Let's have a summit; we're going to solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to say to those people that show up at the summit? Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place. Risk your troops in a war you've called a mistake. Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time. I talk to Tony Blair all the time. I talk to Silvio Berlusconi. They're not going to follow an American president who says follow me into a mistake. Our plan is working. We're going to make elections. And Iraq is going to be free, and America will be better off for it. GIBSON: Do you want to follow up, Senator? 21:17:38 KERRY: Yes, sir, please. Ladies and gentlemen, the right war was Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan. That was the right place. And the right time was Tora Bora, when we had him cornered in the mountains. Now, everyone in the world knows that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force, not after excuse to get rid of the regime. Now we have to succeed. I've always said that. I have been consistent. Yes, we have to succeed, and I have a better plan to help us do it. 21:18:10 BUSH: First of all, we didn't find out he didn't have weapons until we got there, and my opponent thought he had weapons and told everybody he thought he had weapons. And secondly, it's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only Osama bin Laden. The war on terror is to make sure that these terrorist organizations do not end up with weapons of mass destruction. That's what the war on terror is about. Of course, we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already 75 percent of his people. And we're on the hunt for him. But this is a global conflict that requires firm resolve. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Nikki Washington. 21:18:51 Nikki Washington WASHINGTON: Thank you. Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation? 21:19:17 BUSH: No, I appreciate that. I -- listen, I -- we've got a great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of our country. I remember when Ronald Reagan was the president; he stood on principle. Somebody called that stubborn. He stood on principle standing up to the Soviet Union, and we won that conflict. Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe because of the decisions he made. BUSH: I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of our security. You know, I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat, because I felt like he had let the former president down, and I don't think he's the kind of person that can lead toward a Palestinian state. And people in Europe didn't like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing to do. I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they need leadership that's committed to a democracy and freedom, leadership that would be willing to reject terrorism. I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in front of a judge, an unaccounted judge. BUSH: I don't think we ought to join that. That was unpopular. And so, what I'm telling you is, is that sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think they're right. We'll continue to reach out. Listen, there is 30 nations involved in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan. People love America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing. You don't want to join the International Criminal Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:21:23 KERRY: Nikki, that's a question that's been raised by a lot of people around the country. Let me address it but also talk about the weapons the president just talked about, because every part of the president's answer just now promises you more of the same over the next four years. The president stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he was asked a question by somebody just like you, "Under what circumstances would you send people to war?" KERRY: And his answer was, "With a viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done." He didn't do that. He broke that promise. We didn't have enough forces. General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, told him he was going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what? They retired General Shinseki for telling him that. This president hasn't listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable. I came away convinced that, if we worked at it, if we were ready to work and letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us. But the president just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said, "Nope. Sorry, time for diplomacy is over. We're going." He rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. Ladies and gentleman, he gave you a speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:22:55 BUSH: I remember sitting in the White House looking at those generals, saying, "Do you have what you need in this war? Do you have what it takes?" I remember going down to the basement of the White House the day we committed our troops as last resort, looking at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground, asking them, "Do we have the right plan with the right troop level?" And they looked me in the eye and said, "Yes, sir, Mr. President." Of course, I listen to our generals. That's what a president does. A president sets the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy. GIBSON: Senator? 21:23:31 KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to say, "You're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the peace." The military's job is to win the war. KERRY: A president's job is to win the peace. The president did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nation. Didn't deliver the help. Didn't close off the borders. Didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry, and it comes from over here, from Randee Jacobs. You'll need a microphone. KERRY: Is it Randee? 21:24:02 Randee Brown Jacobs JACOBS: Yes, Randee. Iran sponsors terrorism and has missiles capable of hitting Israel and southern Europe. Iran will have nuclear weapons in two to three years time. In the event that U.N. sanctions don't stop this threat, what will you do as president? 21:24:29 KERRY: I don't think you can just rely on U.N. sanctions, Randee. But you're absolutely correct, it is a threat, it's a huge threat. And what's interesting is, it's a threat that has grown while the president has been preoccupied with Iraq, where there wasn't a threat. KERRY: If he'd let the inspectors do their job and go on, we wouldn't have 10 times the numbers of forces in Iraq that we have in Afghanistan chasing Osama bin Laden. Meanwhile, while Iran is moving toward nuclear weapons, some 37 tons of what they called yellow cake, the stuff they use to make enriched uranium, while they're doing that, North Korea has moved from one bomb maybe, maybe, to four to seven bombs. For two years, the president didn't even engage with North Korea, did nothing at all, while it was growing more dangerous, despite the warnings of former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who negotiated getting television cameras and inspectors into that reactor. We were safer before President Bush came to office. Now they have the bombs and we're less safe. So what do we do? We've got to join with the British and the French, with the Germans, who've been involved, in their initiative. We've got to lead the world now to crack down on proliferation as a whole. KERRY: But the president's been slow to do that, even in Russia. At his pace, it's going to take 13 years to reduce and get ahold of all the loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. I've proposed a plan that can capture it and contain it and clean it within four years. And the president is moving to the creation of our own bunker- busting nuclear weapon. It's very hard to get other countries to give up their weapons when you're busy developing a new one. I'm going to lead the world in the greatest counterproliferation effort. And if we have to get tough with Iran, believe me, we will get tough. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:26:29 BUSH: That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, "Let the inspectors do their job." It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. Secondly, of course we've been involved with Iran. BUSH: I fully understand the threat. And that's why we're doing what he suggested we do: Get the Brits, the Germans and the French to go make it very clear to the Iranians that if they expect to be a party to the world to give up their nuclear ambitions. We've been doing that. Let me talk about North Korea. It is naive and dangerous to take a policy that he suggested the other day, which is to have bilateral relations with North Korea. Remember, he's the person who's accusing me of not acting multilaterally. He now wants to take the six-party talks we have -- China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, Japan and the United States -- and undermine them by having bilateral talks. That's what President Clinton did. He had bilateral talks with the North Koreans. And guess what happened? BUSH: He didn't honor the agreement. He was enriching uranium. That is a bad policy. Of course, we're paying attention to these. It's a great question about Iran. That's why in my speech to the Congress I said: There's an "Axis of Evil," Iraq, Iran and North Korea, and we're paying attention to it. And we're making progress. GIBSON: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley. Mr. Farley? 21:28:04 Daniel Farley FARLEY: Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do you intend to maintain our military presence without reinstituting a draft? 21:28:04 BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets. An all-volunteer army is best suited to fight the new wars of the 21st century, which is to be specialized and to find these people as they hide around the world. BUSH: We don't need mass armies anymore. One of the things we've done is we've taken the -- we're beginning to transform our military. And by that I mean we're moving troops out of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent. In Europe, we have massed troops as if the Soviet Union existed and was going to invade into Europe, but those days are over with. And so we're moving troops out of Europe and replacing it with more effective equipment. So to answer your question is, we're withdrawing, not from the world, we're withdrawing manpower so they can be stationed here in America, so there's less rotation, so life is easier on their families and therefore more likely to be -- we'll be more likely to be able to keep people in the all-volunteer army. One of the more important things we're doing in this administration is transformation. There are some really interesting technologies. BUSH: For instance, we're flying unmanned vehicles that can send real-time messages back to stations in the United States. That saves manpower, and it saves equipment. It also means that we can target things easier and move more quickly, which means we need to be lighter and quicker and more facile and highly trained. Now, forget all this talk about a draft. We're not going to have a draft so long as I am the president. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:30:19 KERRY: Daniel, I don't support a draft. But let me tell you where the president's policies have put us. The president -- and this is one of the reasons why I am very proud in this race to have the support of General John Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Admiral William Crowe, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Tony McPeak, who ran the air war for the president's father and did a brilliant job, supporting me; General Wes Clark, who won the war in Kosovo, supporting me; because they all -- and General Baca, who was the head of the National Guard, supporting me. KERRY: Why? Because they understand that our military is overextended under the president. Our Guard and reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies, so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a back-door draft right now. And a lot of our military are underpaid. These are families that get hurt. It hurts the middle class. It hurts communities, because these are our first responders. And they're called up. And they're over there, not over here. Now, I'm going to add 40,000 active duty forces to the military, and I'm going to make people feel good about being safe in our military, and not overextended, because I'm going to run a foreign policy that actually does what President Reagan did, President Eisenhower did, and others. We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did. GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute... BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this. GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty... (CROSSTALK) BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world. GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft... 21:31:53 BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. There are 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone, to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say, you know, you're going alone. And people listen. They're sacrificing with us. GIBSON: Senator? 21:32:31 KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. KERRY: That's not a grand coalition. Ninety percent of the casualties are American. Ninety percent of the costs are coming out of your pockets. I could do a better job. My plan does a better job. And that's why I'll be a better commander in chief. GIBSON: The next question, Senator Kerry, is for you, and it comes from Ann Bronsing, who I believe is over in this area. 21:33:04 Ann Bronsing BRONSING: Senator Kerry, we have been fortunate that there have been no further terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. Why do you think this is? And if elected, what will you do to assure our safety? 21:33:35 KERRY: Thank you very much, Ann. I've asked in my security briefings why that is, and I can't go into all the answers, et cetera, but let me say this to you. This president and his administration have told you and all of us it's not a question of when, it's a question of -- excuse me -- not a question of if, it's a question of when. We've been told that. KERRY: The when I can't tell you. Between the World Trade Center bombing in, what was it, 1993 or so, and the next time was five years, seven years. These people wait. They'll plan. They plot. I agree with the president that we have to go after them and get them wherever they are. I just think I can do that far more effectively, because the most important weapon in doing that is intelligence. You've got to have the best intelligence in the world. And in order to have the best intelligence in the world to know who the terrorists are and where they are and what they're plotting, you've got to have the best cooperation you've ever had in the world. Now, to go back to your question, Nikki, we're not getting the best cooperation in the world today. We've got a whole bunch of countries that pay a price for dealing with the United States of America now. I'm going to change that. And I'm going to put in place a better homeland security effort. Look, 95 percent of our containers coming into this country are not inspected today. When you get on an airplane, your bag is X- rayed, but the cargo hold isn't X-rayed. Do you feel safer? KERRY: This president in the last debate said, "Well, that would be a big tax gap if we did that." Ladies and gentlemen, it's his tax plan. He chose a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans over getting that equipment out into the homeland as fast as possible. We have bridges and tunnels that aren't being secured, chemical plants, nuclear plants that aren't secured, hospitals that are overcrowded with their emergency rooms. If we had a disaster today, could they handle it? This president chose a tax cut over homeland security. Wrong choice. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:35:31 BUSH: That's an odd thing to say, since we've tripled the homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion. Listen, we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent's right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion. The best way to defend America in this world we live in is to stay on the offense. We got to be right 100 percent of the time here at home, and they got to be right once. And that's the reality. And there's a lot of good people working hard. We're doing the best we possibly can to share information. That's why the Patriot Act was important. BUSH: The Patriot Act is vital, by the way. It's a tool that law enforcement now uses to be able to talk between each other. My opponent says he hadn't changed his position on it. No, but he's for weakening it. I don't think my opponent has got the right view about the world to make us safe; I really don't. First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place. This war is a long, long war, and it requires steadfast determination and it requires a complete understanding that we not only chase down Al Qaida but we disrupt terrorist safe havens as well as people who could provide the terrorists with support. GIBSON: I want to extend for a minute, Senator. And I'm curious about something you said. You said, "It's not when, but if." You think it's inevitable because the sense of security is a very basic thing with everybody in this country worried about their kids. 21:37:22 KERRY: Well, the president and his experts have told America that it's not a question of if; it's a question of when. And I accept what the president has said. These terrorists are serious, they're deadly, and they know nothing except trying to kill. I understand that. That's why I will never stop at anything to hunt down and kill the terrorists. But you heard the president just say to you that we've added money. Folks, the test is not if you've added money; the test is that you've done everything possible to make America secure. He chose a tax cut for wealthy Americans over the things that I listed to you. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:37:55 BUSH: Well, we'll talk about the tax cut for middle class here in a minute. But yes, I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country. And all I can tell you is every day I know that there's people working overtime, doing the very best they can. And the reason I'm worried is because there's a vicious enemy that has an ideology of hate. And the way to defeat them long-term, by the way, is to spread freedom. BUSH: Liberty can change habits. And that's what's happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. GIBSON: Mr. President, we're going to turn to questions now on domestic policy. And we're going to start with health issues. And the first question is for President Bush and it's from John Horstman. 21:38:31 John Horstman HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost? 21:38:46 BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you. And that's why the FDA and that's why the surgeon general are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world. BUSH: And we've just got to make sure, before somebody thinks they're buying a product, that it works. And that's why we're doing what we're doing. Now, it may very well be here in December you'll hear me say, I think there's a safe way to do it. There are other ways to make sure drugs are cheaper. One is to speed up generic drugs to the marketplace, quicker. Pharmaceuticals were using loopholes to keep brand -- brand drugs in place, and generics are much less expensive than brand drugs. And we're doing just that. Another is to pass -- to get our seniors to sign up to these drug discount cards, and they're working. Wanda Blackmore I met here from Missouri, the first time she bought drugs with her drug discount card, she paid $1.14, I think it was, for about $10 worth of drugs. These cards make sense. BUSH: And, you know, in 2006 seniors are going to get prescription drug coverage for the first time in Medicare. Because I went to Washington to fix problems. Medicare -- the issue of Medicare used to be called "Mediscare." People didn't want to touch it for fear of getting hurt politically. I wanted to get something done. I think our seniors deserve a modern medical system. And in 2006, our seniors will get prescription drug coverage. Thank you for asking. GIBSON: Senator, a minute and a half. 21:40:40 KERRY: John, you heard the president just say that he thought he might try to be for it. Four years ago, right here in this forum, he was asked the same question: Can't people be able to import drugs from Canada? You know what he said? "I think that makes sense. I think that's a good idea" -- four years ago. Now, the president said, "I'm not blocking that." Ladies and gentlemen, the president just didn't level with you right now again. KERRY: He did block it, because we passed it in the United States Senate. We sent it over to the House, that you could import drugs. We took care of the safety issues. We're not talking about third-world drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles. And we're asking to be able to allow you to get them. The president blocked it. The president also took Medicare, which belongs to you. And he could have lowered the cost of Medicare and lowered your taxes and lowered the costs to seniors. You know what he did? He made it illegal, illegal for Medicare to do what the V.A. does, which is bulk purchase drugs so that you can lower the price and get them out to you lower. He put $139 billion of windfall profit into the pockets of the drug companies right out of your pockets. That's the difference between us. The president sides with the power companies, the oil companies, the drug companies. And I'm fighting to let you get those drugs from Canada, and I'm fighting to let Medicare survive. I'm fighting for the middle class. That is the difference. 21:42:16 BUSH: If they're safe, they're coming. I want to remind you that it wasn't just my administration that made the decision on safety. President Clinton did the same thing, because we have an obligation to protect you. Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished. I've been in Washington, D.C., three and a half years and led the Congress to reform Medicare so our seniors have got a modern health care system. That's what leadership is all about. 21:42:50 KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry. And this comes from Norma-Jean Laurent. LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters? 21:43:48 KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform. We both believe that, as lawyers -- I'm a lawyer, too. And I believe that we will be able to get a fix that has alluded everybody else because we know how to do it. KERRY: It's in my health-care proposal. Go to johnkerry.com. You can pull it off of the Internet. And you'll find a tort reform plan. Now, ladies and gentlemen, important to understand, the president and his friends try to make a big deal out of it. Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it, particularly for OGBYNs (sic) and for brain surgeons and others? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan. I have a plan to lower the cost of health care for you. I have a plan to cover all children. I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and congressmen give themselves. I have a plan that's going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. KERRY: And I have a plan that will take the catastrophic cases out of the system, off your backs, pay for it out of a federal fund, which lowers the premiums for everybody in America, makes American business more competitive and makes health care more affordable. Now, all of that can happen, but I have to ask you to do one thing: Join me in rolling back the president's unaffordable tax cut for people earning more than $200,000 a year. That's all. Ninety-eight percent of America, I'm giving you a tax cut and I'm giving you health care. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:45:51 BUSH: Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work. The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion in new spending, and he says he going to tax the rich to close the tax gap. He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his programs. That's just reality. BUSH: And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There's a bill on the floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and voted for if he's so much for it. Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year. And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it. It's the largest increase in federal government health care ever. And it fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won from the National Journal. That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, we got several questions along this line, and I'm just curious if you'd go further on what you talked about with tort reform. Would you be favoring capping awards on pain and suffering? Would you limit attorney's fees? KERRY: A follow-up... GIBSON: Yes. A follow-up on this for... 21:47:21 KERRY: Yes, I think we should look at the punitive and we should have some limitations. But look, what's really important, Charlie, is the president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, "compassionate conservative," what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history. Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2. I mean, seriously -- labels don't mean anything. What means something is: Do you have a plan? And I want to talk about my plan some more -- I hope we can. GIBSON: We'll get to that in just a minute. Thirty seconds, President Bush. 21:48:11 BUSH: You're right, what does matter is a plan. He said he's for -- you're now for capping punitive damages? BUSH: That's odd. You should have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then. Medical liability issues are a problem, a significant problem. He's been in the United States Senate for 20 years and he hasn't addressed it. We passed it out of the House of Representatives. Guess where it's stuck? It's stuck in the Senate, because the trial lawyers won't act on it. And he put a trial lawyer on the ticket. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Matthew O'Brien. 21:48:47 Matthew O'Brien O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent. 21:49:13 BUSH: Right, thank you for that. We have a deficit. We have a deficit because this country went into a recession. You might remember the stock market started to decline dramatically six months before I came to office, and then the bubble of the 1990s popped. And that cost us revenue. That cost us revenue. Secondly, we're at war. And I'm going to spend what it takes to win the war, more than just $120 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've got to pay our troops more. We have. We've increased money for ammunition and weapons and pay and homeland security. I just told this lady over here we spent -- went from $10 billion to $30 billion to protect the homeland. I think we have an obligation to spend that kind of money. And plus, we cut taxes for everybody. Everybody got tax relief, so that they get out of the recession. I think if you raise taxes during a recession, you head to depression. I come from the school of thought that says when people have more money in their pocket during economic times, it increases demand or investment. Small businesses begin to grow, and jobs are added. BUSH: We found out today that over the past 13 months, we've added 1.9 million new jobs in the last 13 months. I proposed a plan, detailed budget, that shows us cutting the deficit in half by five years. And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control. Like you, I'm concerned about the deficit. But I am not going to shortchange our troops in harm's way. And I'm not going to run up taxes, which will cost this economy jobs. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:51:11 KERRY: Let me begin by saying that my health-care plan is not what the president described. It is not a government takeover. You have choice. Choose your doctor, choose your plan. The government has nothing to do with it. KERRY: In fact, it doesn't ask you to do anything -- if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. If you like your high premiums, you keep them. That's the way we leave it. Now with respect to the deficit, the president was handed a $5.6 trillion surplus, ladies and gentlemen. That's where he was when he came into office. We now have a $2.6 trillion deficit. This is the biggest turnaround in the history of the country. He's the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, others, knew how to lead. They knew how to ask the American people for the right things. One percent of America, the highest one percent of income earners in America, got $89 billion of tax cut last year. One percent of America got more than the 80 percent of America that earned from $100,000 down. KERRY: The president thinks it's more important to fight for that top 1 percent than to fight for fiscal responsibility and to fight for you. I want to put money in your pocket. I am -- I have a proposal for a tax cut for all people earning less than the $200,000. The only people affected by my plan are the top income earners of America. GIBSON: I both -- I heard you both say -- I have heard you both say during the campaign, I just heard you say it, that you're going to cut the deficit by a half in four years. But I didn't hear one thing in the last three and a half minutes that would indicate how either one of you do that. 21:52:56 BUSH: Well, look at the budget. One is make sure Congress doesn't overspend. But let me talk back about where we've been. The stock market was declining six months prior to my arrival. BUSH: It was the largest stock market correction -- one of the largest in history, which foretold a recession. Because we cut taxes on everybody -- remember, we ran up the child credit by $1,000, we reduced the marriage penalty, we created a 10 percent bracket, everybody who pays taxes got relief -- the recession was one of the shortest in our nation's history. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 21:53:38 KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question will be for you, and it comes from James Varner, who I believe is in this section. Mr. Varner? You need a microphone. James Varner VARNER: Thank you. 21:54:38 Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language, give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than $200,000 a year during your first term? KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera. Yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut. And here's my tax cut. I raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids. I have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college. And I lower the cost of health care in the way that I described to you. Every part of my program I've shown how I'm going to pay for it. And I've gotten good people, like former Secretary of the Treasury Bob Rubin, for instance, who showed how to balance budgets and give you a good economy, to help me crunch these numbers and make them work. KERRY: I've even scaled back some of my favorite programs already, like the child-care program I wanted to fund and the national service program, because the president's deficit keeps growing and I've said as a pledge, "I'm going to cut the deficit in half in four years." Now, I'm going to restore what we did in the 1990s, ladies and gentlemen: pay as you go. We're going to do it like you do it. The president broke the pay-as-you-go rule. Somebody here asked the question about, "Why haven't you vetoed something?" It's a good question. If you care about it, why don't you veto it? I think John McCain called the energy bill the "No Lobbyist Left Behind" bill. I mean, you've got to stand up and fight somewhere, folks. I'm pledging I will not raise taxes; I'm giving a tax cut to the people earning less than $200,000 a year. Now, for the people earning more than $200,000 a year, you're going to see a rollback to the level we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money. KERRY: And looking around here, at this group here, I suspect there are only three people here who are going to be affected: the president, me, and, Charlie, I'm sorry, you too. (LAUGHTER) GIBSON: Mr. President, 90 seconds. 21:56:38 BUSH: He's just not credible when he talks about being fiscally conservative. He's just not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate, he voted to break the caps -- the spending caps -- over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative, all of a sudden. It's just not credible. You cannot believe it. And of course he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And you say: Well, how are you going to pay for it? He says, well, he's going to raise the taxes on the rich -- that's what he said -- the top two brackets. That raises, he says $800 billion; we say $600 billion. BUSH: We've got battling green eye shades. Somewhere in between those numbers -- and so there's a difference, what he's promised and what he can raise. Now, either he's going to break all these wonderful promises he's told you about or he's going to raise taxes. And I suspect, given his record, he's going to raise taxes. Is my time up yet? GIBSON: No, you can keep going. (LAUGHTER) BUSH: Good. You looked at me like my clock was up. I think that the way to grow this economy is to keep taxes low, is have an energy plan, is to have litigation reform. As I told you, we've just got a report that said over the past 13 months, we've created 1.9 million new jobs. And so the fundamental question of this campaign is: Who's going to keep the economy growing so people can work? That's the fundamental question. GIBSON: I'm going to come back one more time to how these numbers add up and how you can cut that deficit in half in four years, given what you've both said. 21:58:13 KERRY: Well, first of all, the president's figures of $2.2 trillion just aren't accurate. Those are the fuzzy math figures put together by some group that works for the campaign. That's not the number. Number two, John McCain and I have a proposal, jointly, for a commission that closes corporate giveaway loopholes. We've got $40 billion going to Bermuda. We've got all kinds of giveaways. We ought to be shutting those down. And third, credible: Ladies and gentlemen, in 1985, I was one of the first Democrats to move to balance the budget. I voted for the balanced budget in '93 and '97. We did it. We did it. And I was there. GIBSON: Thirty seconds. I'm sorry, thirty seconds, Mr. President. 21:58:57 BUSH: Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide. He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures. And so people are going to have to look at the record. Look at the record of the man running for the president. BUSH: They don't name him the most liberal in the United States Senate because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named him because of his votes. And it's reality. It's just not credible to say he's going to keep taxes down and balance budgets. GIBSON: Mr. President, the next question is for you, and it comes from James Hubb over here. James Hubb HUBB: Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply? 21:59:47 BUSH: Off-road diesel engines -- we have reached an agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90 percent. I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by 3 million. We've got an aggressive brown field program to refurbish inner-city sore spots to useful pieces of property. I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent. I have -- was fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the conservation reserve program to set aside millions of acres of land to help improve wildlife and the habitat. We proposed and passed a healthy forest bill which was essential to working with -- particularly in Western states -- to make sure that our forests were protected. BUSH: What happens in those forests, because of lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like tinderboxes. And over the last summers I've flown over there. And so, this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and at the same time make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest fires that have destroyed acres after acres in the West. We've got a good, common-sense policy. Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen over time is technology is going to change the way we live for the good for the environment. That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending $1 billion to come up with the technologies to do that. That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make sure we can use coal but in a clean way. I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land. BUSH: The quality of the air's cleaner since I've been the president. Fewer water complaints since I've been the president. More land being restored since I've been the president. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, minute and a half. 22:01:50 KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment. Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not. Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels around. Labels don't mean anything. I supported welfare reform. I led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was heresy. Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen. Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of the worst administrations in modern history. KERRY: The Clear Skies bill that he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of the sky, slap it onto something, like "No Child Left Behind" but you leave millions of children behind. Here they're leaving the skies and the environment behind. If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today, no change, the air would be cleaner that it is if you pass the Clear Skies act. We're going backwards. In fact, his environmental enforcement chief air-quality person at the EPA resigned in protest over what they're doing to what are calling the new source performance standards for air quality. They're going backwards on the definition for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality. They pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead, didn't even accept the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science. GIBSON: Mr. President? 22:03:29 BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyoto treaty, which I guess he's referring to, it would have cost America a lot of jobs. It's one of these deals where, in order to be popular in the halls of Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I think there's a better way to do it. BUSH: And I just told you the facts, sir. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been the president of the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and development, because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're accustomed to and being able to protect our environment better, the use of technologies. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 22:03:57 KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto, and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this president didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen, and we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You wonder, Nikki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the world. You just say: Hey, we don't agree with you. Goodbye. The president's done nothing to try to fix it. I will. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you. It involves jobs, which is a topic of the news today. GIBSON: And for the question, we're going to turn to Jane Barrow. Jane Barrow BARROW: Senator Kerry, how can the U.S. be competitive in manufacturing given -- in manufacturing, excuse me -- given the wage necessary and comfortably accepted for American workers to maintain the standard of living that they expect? 22:04:56 KERRY: Jane, there are a lot of ways to be competitive. And unfortunately again I regret this administration has not seized them and embraced them. Let me give you an example. There is a tax loophole right now. If you're a company in St. Louis working, trying to make jobs here, there is actually an incentive for you to go away. You get more money, you keep more of your taxes by going abroad. I'm going to shut that loophole, and I'm going to give the tax benefit to the companies that stay here in America to help make them more competitive. Secondly, we're going to create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America. Third, what's really hurting American business more than anything else is the cost of health care. Now, you didn't hear any plan from the president, because he doesn't have a plan to lower the cost of health care. KERRY: Five million Americans have lost their health care; 620,000 Missourians have no health care at all; 96,000 Missourians have lost their health care under President Bush. I have a plan to cover those folks. And it's a plan that lowers cost for everybody, covers all children. And the way I pay for it -- I'm not fiscally irresponsible -- is I roll back the tax cut this president so fiercely wants to defend, the one for him and me and Charlie. I think you ought to get the break. I want to lower your cost to health care. I want to fully fund education, No Child Left Behind, special-needs education. And that's how we're going to be more competitive, by making sure our kids are graduating from school and college. China and India are graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are. KERRY: We've got to create the products of the future. That's why I have a plan for energy independence within 10 years. And we're going to put our laboratories and our colleges and our universities to work. And we're going to get the great entrepreneurial spirit of this country, and we're going to free ourselves from this dependency on Mideast oil. That's how you create jobs and become competitive. GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half. 22:06:59 BUSH: Let me start with how to control the cost of health care: medical liability reform, for starters, which he's opposed. Secondly, allow small businesses to pool together so they can share risk and buy insurance at the same discounts big businesses get to do. Thirdly, spread what's called health savings accounts. It's good for small businesses, good for owners. You own your own account. You can save tax-free. You get a catastrophic plan to help you on it. This is different from saying, "OK, let me incent you to go on the government." He's talking about his plan to keep jobs here. You know he calls it an outsourcing to keep -- stop outsourcing. Robert Rubin looked at his plan and said it won't work. BUSH: The best way to keep jobs here in America is, one, have an energy plan. I proposed one to the Congress two years ago, encourages conservation, encourages technology to explore for environmentally friendly ways for coal -- to use coal and gas. It encourages the use of renewables like ethanol and biodiesel. It's stuck in the Senate. He and his running-mate didn't show up to vote when they could have got it going in the Senate. Less regulations if we want jobs here; legal reform if we want jobs here; and we've got to keep taxes low. Now, he says he's only going to tax the rich. Do you realize, 900,000 small businesses will be taxed under his plan because most small businesses are Subchapter S corps or limited partnerships, and they pay tax at the individual income tax level. And so when you're running up the taxes like that, you're taxing job creators, and that's not how you keep jobs here. GIBSON: Senator, I want to extend for a minute, you talk about tax cuts to stop outsourcing. But when you have IBM documents that I saw recently where you can hire a programmer for $12 in China, $56 an hour here, tax credits won't cut it. 22:08:47 KERRY: You can't stop all outsourcing, Charlie. I've never promised that. I'm not going to, because that would be pandering. You can't. But what you can do is create a fair playing field, and that's what I'm talking about. But let me just address what the president just said. Ladies and gentlemen, that's just not true what he said. The Wall Street Journal said 96 percent of small businesses are not affected at all by my plan. And you know why he gets that count? The president got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business. Dick Cheney's counted as a small business. That's how they do things. That's just not right. 22:09:21 BUSH: I own a timber company? (LAUGHTER) That's news to me. (LAUGHTER) Need some wood? (LAUGHTER) Most small businesses are Subchapter S corps. They just are. BUSH: I met Grant Milliron, Mansfield, Ohio. He's creating jobs. Most small businesses -- 70 percent of the new jobs in America are created by small businesses. Taxes are going up when you run up the top two brackets. It's a fact. GIBSON: President Bush, the next question is for you, and it comes from Rob Fowler, who I believe is over in this area. 22:10:22 Rob Fowler FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms? 22:10:26 BUSH: I appreciate that. I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. Every action being taken against terrorists requires court order, requires scrutiny. BUSH: As a matter of fact, the tools now given to the terrorist fighters are the same tools that we've been using against drug dealers and white-collar criminals. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. The Patriot Act is necessary, for example, because parts of the FBI couldn't talk to each other. The intelligence-gathering and the law-enforcement arms of the FBI just couldn't share intelligence under the old law. And that didn't make any sense. Our law enforcement must have every tool necessary to find and disrupt terrorists at home and abroad before they hurt us again. That's the task of the 21st century. And so, I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all. BUSH: And I know it's necessary. I can remember being in upstate New York talking to FBI agents that helped bust a Lackawanna cell up there. And they told me they could not have performed their duty, the duty we all expect of them, if they did not have the ability to communicate with each other under the Patriot Act. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 22:12:05 KERRY: Former Governor Racicot, as chairman of the Republican Party, said he thought that the Patriot Act has to be changed and fixed. Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, he is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said over his dead body before it gets... 22:12:19 END OF TAPE.

FTG OF THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT GEORGE W BUSH AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MASS) MODERATED BY ABC ANCHOR CHARLES GIBSON / DEBATE SWITCHED AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY. 20:43:30 NATS INT FTG OF DEBATE IN PROGRESS AS GIBSON ADDRESSES THE AUDIENCE. 20:48:33 FTG OF FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH AND KERRY'S WIFE, TERESA HEINZ KERRY ARE INTRODUCED. 21:01:50 GIBSON INTRODUCTIONS. 21:03:30 BUSH AND KERRY ARRIVE AND SHAKE HANDS. 21:03:59 GIBSON: Gentlemen, to the business at hand. The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me. 21:04:10 Cheryl Ann Otis OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too wishy-washy. Do you have a reply for them? KERRY: Yes, I certainly do. (LAUGHTER) 21:04:28 KERRY: But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington University for hosting us here this evening. Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening, sir. Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other. Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican Party thinks we ought to change a few things. KERRY: No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I support the goals. But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion. Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers. You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child Left Behind Act to help your education system here. So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it. So these are the differences. Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to lose jobs. I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy- washy. I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong. KERRY: I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000 or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:06:30 BUSH: Charlie, thank you, and thank our panelists. And, Senator, thank you. I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well. I can see why people at your workplace think he changes positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for it. And that sends a confusing signal to people. He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. BUSH: No, I can see why people think that he changes position quite often, because he does. You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions. I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics. He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty, created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income Americans. That's right at the middle class. BUSH: He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've got to be firm and consistent. GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next questioner. The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is Robin Dahle. 21:08:15 Robin Dahle DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed this knowledge to our terrorist enemies." Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable justification for invasion when this statement applies to so many other countries, including North Korea? 21:08:50 BUSH: Each situation is different, Robin. And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to hurt us. In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all. I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been brought to justice. That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to plan. BUSH: And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted to restart his weapons programs. We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a grave threat. I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why. But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more dangerous. BUSH: Thank you, sir. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:10:57 KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question. I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl, at the same time. The world is more dangerous today. The world is more dangerous today because the president didn't make the right judgments. Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He wants you to believe that because he can't come here and tell you that he's created new jobs for America. He's lost jobs. He can't come here and tell you that he's created health care for Americans because, what, we've got 5 million Americans who have lost their health care, 96,000 of them right here in Missouri. He can't come here and tell you that he's left no child behind because he didn't fund no child left behind. So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to believe that I can't be president. And he's trying to make you believe it because he wants you to think I change my mind. KERRY: Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat. Believed it in 1998 when Clinton was president. I wanted to give Clinton the power to use force if necessary. But I would have used that force wisely, I would have used that authority wisely, not rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. I would have brought our allies to our side. I would have fought to make certain our troops had everybody possible to help them win the mission. This president rushed to war, pushed our allies aside. And Iran now is more dangerous, and so is North Korea, with nuclear weapons. He took his eye off the ball, off of Osama bin Laden. GIBSON: Mr. President, I do want to follow up on this one, because there were several questions from the audience along this line. BUSH: (OFF-MIKE) GIBSON: Go ahead. Go ahead. (CROSSTALK) GIBSON: Well, I was going to have you do the rebuttal on it, but you go ahead. (LAUGHTER) You're up. 21:12:38 BUSH: You remember the last debate? BUSH: My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, "Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well." Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein. GIBSON: Senator? 21:13:15 KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective. And if we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq. And right now, Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war against terror. GIBSON: We're going to have another question now on the subject of Iraq. GIBSON: And I'm going to turn to Anthony Baldi with a question for Senator Kerry. Mr. Baldi? Anthony G Baldi BALDI: Senator Kerry, the U.S. is preparing a new Iraq government and will proceed to withdraw U.S. troops. Would you proceed with the same plans as President Bush? 21:14:08 KERRY: Anthony, I would not. I have laid out a different plan, because the president's plan is not working. You see that every night on television. There's chaos in Iraq. King Abdullah of Jordan said just yesterday or the day before you can't hold elections in Iraq with the chaos that's going on today. Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. KERRY: Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee. Now, I have to tell you, I would do something different. I would reach out to our allies in a way that this president hasn't. He pushed them away time and again, pushed them away at the U.N., pushed them away individually. Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the North Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed the possibility of a small training unit or having a total takeover of the training in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total training of Iraq? No. Were they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to bring all the allies together around that? No, because they've always wanted this to be an American effort. You know, they even had the Defense Department issue a memorandum saying, "Don't bother applying for assistance or for being part of the reconstruction if you weren't part of our original coalition." KERRY: Now, that's not a good way to build support and reduce the risk for our troops and make America safer. I'm going to get the training done for our troops. I'm going to get the training of Iraqis done faster. And I'm going to get our allies back to the table. 21:16:01 BUSH: Two days ago in the Oval Office, I met with the finance minister from Iraq. He came to see me. And he talked about how optimistic he was and the country was about heading toward elections. Think about it: They're going from tyranny to elections. He talked about the reconstruction efforts that are beginning to take hold. He talked about the fact that Iraqis love to be free. He said he was optimistic when he came here, then he turned on the TV and listened to the political rhetoric and all of a sudden he was pessimistic. Now, this is guy a who, along with others, has taken great risk for great freedom. And we need to stand with him. My opponent says he has a plan; it sounds familiar, because it's called the Bush plan. We're going to train troops, and we are. We'll have 125,000 trained by the end of December. We're spending about $7 billion. BUSH: He talks about a grand idea: Let's have a summit; we're going to solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to say to those people that show up at the summit? Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place. Risk your troops in a war you've called a mistake. Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time. I talk to Tony Blair all the time. I talk to Silvio Berlusconi. They're not going to follow an American president who says follow me into a mistake. Our plan is working. We're going to make elections. And Iraq is going to be free, and America will be better off for it. GIBSON: Do you want to follow up, Senator? 21:17:38 KERRY: Yes, sir, please. Ladies and gentlemen, the right war was Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan. That was the right place. And the right time was Tora Bora, when we had him cornered in the mountains. Now, everyone in the world knows that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force, not after excuse to get rid of the regime. Now we have to succeed. I've always said that. I have been consistent. Yes, we have to succeed, and I have a better plan to help us do it. 21:18:10 BUSH: First of all, we didn't find out he didn't have weapons until we got there, and my opponent thought he had weapons and told everybody he thought he had weapons. And secondly, it's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only Osama bin Laden. The war on terror is to make sure that these terrorist organizations do not end up with weapons of mass destruction. That's what the war on terror is about. Of course, we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already 75 percent of his people. And we're on the hunt for him. But this is a global conflict that requires firm resolve. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Nikki Washington. 21:18:51 Nikki Washington WASHINGTON: Thank you. Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation? 21:19:17 BUSH: No, I appreciate that. I -- listen, I -- we've got a great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of our country. I remember when Ronald Reagan was the president; he stood on principle. Somebody called that stubborn. He stood on principle standing up to the Soviet Union, and we won that conflict. Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe because of the decisions he made. BUSH: I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of our security. You know, I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat, because I felt like he had let the former president down, and I don't think he's the kind of person that can lead toward a Palestinian state. And people in Europe didn't like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing to do. I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they need leadership that's committed to a democracy and freedom, leadership that would be willing to reject terrorism. I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in front of a judge, an unaccounted judge. BUSH: I don't think we ought to join that. That was unpopular. And so, what I'm telling you is, is that sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think they're right. We'll continue to reach out. Listen, there is 30 nations involved in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan. People love America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing. You don't want to join the International Criminal Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:21:23 KERRY: Nikki, that's a question that's been raised by a lot of people around the country. Let me address it but also talk about the weapons the president just talked about, because every part of the president's answer just now promises you more of the same over the next four years. The president stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he was asked a question by somebody just like you, "Under what circumstances would you send people to war?" KERRY: And his answer was, "With a viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done." He didn't do that. He broke that promise. We didn't have enough forces. General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, told him he was going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what? They retired General Shinseki for telling him that. This president hasn't listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable. I came away convinced that, if we worked at it, if we were ready to work and letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us. But the president just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said, "Nope. Sorry, time for diplomacy is over. We're going." He rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. Ladies and gentleman, he gave you a speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:22:55 BUSH: I remember sitting in the White House looking at those generals, saying, "Do you have what you need in this war? Do you have what it takes?" I remember going down to the basement of the White House the day we committed our troops as last resort, looking at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground, asking them, "Do we have the right plan with the right troop level?" And they looked me in the eye and said, "Yes, sir, Mr. President." Of course, I listen to our generals. That's what a president does. A president sets the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy. GIBSON: Senator? 21:23:31 KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to say, "You're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the peace." The military's job is to win the war. KERRY: A president's job is to win the peace. The president did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nation. Didn't deliver the help. Didn't close off the borders. Didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry, and it comes from over here, from Randee Jacobs. You'll need a microphone. KERRY: Is it Randee? 21:24:02 Randee Brown Jacobs JACOBS: Yes, Randee. Iran sponsors terrorism and has missiles capable of hitting Israel and southern Europe. Iran will have nuclear weapons in two to three years time. In the event that U.N. sanctions don't stop this threat, what will you do as president? 21:24:29 KERRY: I don't think you can just rely on U.N. sanctions, Randee. But you're absolutely correct, it is a threat, it's a huge threat. And what's interesting is, it's a threat that has grown while the president has been preoccupied with Iraq, where there wasn't a threat. KERRY: If he'd let the inspectors do their job and go on, we wouldn't have 10 times the numbers of forces in Iraq that we have in Afghanistan chasing Osama bin Laden. Meanwhile, while Iran is moving toward nuclear weapons, some 37 tons of what they called yellow cake, the stuff they use to make enriched uranium, while they're doing that, North Korea has moved from one bomb maybe, maybe, to four to seven bombs. For two years, the president didn't even engage with North Korea, did nothing at all, while it was growing more dangerous, despite the warnings of former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who negotiated getting television cameras and inspectors into that reactor. We were safer before President Bush came to office. Now they have the bombs and we're less safe. So what do we do? We've got to join with the British and the French, with the Germans, who've been involved, in their initiative. We've got to lead the world now to crack down on proliferation as a whole. KERRY: But the president's been slow to do that, even in Russia. At his pace, it's going to take 13 years to reduce and get ahold of all the loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. I've proposed a plan that can capture it and contain it and clean it within four years. And the president is moving to the creation of our own bunker- busting nuclear weapon. It's very hard to get other countries to give up their weapons when you're busy developing a new one. I'm going to lead the world in the greatest counterproliferation effort. And if we have to get tough with Iran, believe me, we will get tough. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:26:29 BUSH: That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, "Let the inspectors do their job." It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. Secondly, of course we've been involved with Iran. BUSH: I fully understand the threat. And that's why we're doing what he suggested we do: Get the Brits, the Germans and the French to go make it very clear to the Iranians that if they expect to be a party to the world to give up their nuclear ambitions. We've been doing that. Let me talk about North Korea. It is naive and dangerous to take a policy that he suggested the other day, which is to have bilateral relations with North Korea. Remember, he's the person who's accusing me of not acting multilaterally. He now wants to take the six-party talks we have -- China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, Japan and the United States -- and undermine them by having bilateral talks. That's what President Clinton did. He had bilateral talks with the North Koreans. And guess what happened? BUSH: He didn't honor the agreement. He was enriching uranium. That is a bad policy. Of course, we're paying attention to these. It's a great question about Iran. That's why in my speech to the Congress I said: There's an "Axis of Evil," Iraq, Iran and North Korea, and we're paying attention to it. And we're making progress. GIBSON: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley. Mr. Farley? 21:28:04 Daniel Farley FARLEY: Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do you intend to maintain our military presence without reinstituting a draft? 21:28:04 BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets. An all-volunteer army is best suited to fight the new wars of the 21st century, which is to be specialized and to find these people as they hide around the world. BUSH: We don't need mass armies anymore. One of the things we've done is we've taken the -- we're beginning to transform our military. And by that I mean we're moving troops out of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent. In Europe, we have massed troops as if the Soviet Union existed and was going to invade into Europe, but those days are over with. And so we're moving troops out of Europe and replacing it with more effective equipment. So to answer your question is, we're withdrawing, not from the world, we're withdrawing manpower so they can be stationed here in America, so there's less rotation, so life is easier on their families and therefore more likely to be -- we'll be more likely to be able to keep people in the all-volunteer army. One of the more important things we're doing in this administration is transformation. There are some really interesting technologies. BUSH: For instance, we're flying unmanned vehicles that can send real-time messages back to stations in the United States. That saves manpower, and it saves equipment. It also means that we can target things easier and move more quickly, which means we need to be lighter and quicker and more facile and highly trained. Now, forget all this talk about a draft. We're not going to have a draft so long as I am the president. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:30:19 KERRY: Daniel, I don't support a draft. But let me tell you where the president's policies have put us. The president -- and this is one of the reasons why I am very proud in this race to have the support of General John Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Admiral William Crowe, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Tony McPeak, who ran the air war for the president's father and did a brilliant job, supporting me; General Wes Clark, who won the war in Kosovo, supporting me; because they all -- and General Baca, who was the head of the National Guard, supporting me. KERRY: Why? Because they understand that our military is overextended under the president. Our Guard and reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies, so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a back-door draft right now. And a lot of our military are underpaid. These are families that get hurt. It hurts the middle class. It hurts communities, because these are our first responders. And they're called up. And they're over there, not over here. Now, I'm going to add 40,000 active duty forces to the military, and I'm going to make people feel good about being safe in our military, and not overextended, because I'm going to run a foreign policy that actually does what President Reagan did, President Eisenhower did, and others. We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did. GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute... BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this. GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty... (CROSSTALK) BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world. GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft... 21:31:53 BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. There are 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone, to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say, you know, you're going alone. And people listen. They're sacrificing with us. GIBSON: Senator? 21:32:31 KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. KERRY: That's not a grand coalition. Ninety percent of the casualties are American. Ninety percent of the costs are coming out of your pockets. I could do a better job. My plan does a better job. And that's why I'll be a better commander in chief. GIBSON: The next question, Senator Kerry, is for you, and it comes from Ann Bronsing, who I believe is over in this area. 21:33:04 Ann Bronsing BRONSING: Senator Kerry, we have been fortunate that there have been no further terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. Why do you think this is? And if elected, what will you do to assure our safety? 21:33:35 KERRY: Thank you very much, Ann. I've asked in my security briefings why that is, and I can't go into all the answers, et cetera, but let me say this to you. This president and his administration have told you and all of us it's not a question of when, it's a question of -- excuse me -- not a question of if, it's a question of when. We've been told that. KERRY: The when I can't tell you. Between the World Trade Center bombing in, what was it, 1993 or so, and the next time was five years, seven years. These people wait. They'll plan. They plot. I agree with the president that we have to go after them and get them wherever they are. I just think I can do that far more effectively, because the most important weapon in doing that is intelligence. You've got to have the best intelligence in the world. And in order to have the best intelligence in the world to know who the terrorists are and where they are and what they're plotting, you've got to have the best cooperation you've ever had in the world. Now, to go back to your question, Nikki, we're not getting the best cooperation in the world today. We've got a whole bunch of countries that pay a price for dealing with the United States of America now. I'm going to change that. And I'm going to put in place a better homeland security effort. Look, 95 percent of our containers coming into this country are not inspected today. When you get on an airplane, your bag is X- rayed, but the cargo hold isn't X-rayed. Do you feel safer? KERRY: This president in the last debate said, "Well, that would be a big tax gap if we did that." Ladies and gentlemen, it's his tax plan. He chose a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans over getting that equipment out into the homeland as fast as possible. We have bridges and tunnels that aren't being secured, chemical plants, nuclear plants that aren't secured, hospitals that are overcrowded with their emergency rooms. If we had a disaster today, could they handle it? This president chose a tax cut over homeland security. Wrong choice. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:35:31 BUSH: That's an odd thing to say, since we've tripled the homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion. Listen, we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent's right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion. The best way to defend America in this world we live in is to stay on the offense. We got to be right 100 percent of the time here at home, and they got to be right once. And that's the reality. And there's a lot of good people working hard. We're doing the best we possibly can to share information. That's why the Patriot Act was important. BUSH: The Patriot Act is vital, by the way. It's a tool that law enforcement now uses to be able to talk between each other. My opponent says he hadn't changed his position on it. No, but he's for weakening it. I don't think my opponent has got the right view about the world to make us safe; I really don't. First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place. This war is a long, long war, and it requires steadfast determination and it requires a complete understanding that we not only chase down Al Qaida but we disrupt terrorist safe havens as well as people who could provide the terrorists with support. GIBSON: I want to extend for a minute, Senator. And I'm curious about something you said. You said, "It's not when, but if." You think it's inevitable because the sense of security is a very basic thing with everybody in this country worried about their kids. 21:37:22 KERRY: Well, the president and his experts have told America that it's not a question of if; it's a question of when. And I accept what the president has said. These terrorists are serious, they're deadly, and they know nothing except trying to kill. I understand that. That's why I will never stop at anything to hunt down and kill the terrorists. But you heard the president just say to you that we've added money. Folks, the test is not if you've added money; the test is that you've done everything possible to make America secure. He chose a tax cut for wealthy Americans over the things that I listed to you. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:37:55 BUSH: Well, we'll talk about the tax cut for middle class here in a minute. But yes, I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country. And all I can tell you is every day I know that there's people working overtime, doing the very best they can. And the reason I'm worried is because there's a vicious enemy that has an ideology of hate. And the way to defeat them long-term, by the way, is to spread freedom. BUSH: Liberty can change habits. And that's what's happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. GIBSON: Mr. President, we're going to turn to questions now on domestic policy. And we're going to start with health issues. And the first question is for President Bush and it's from John Horstman. 21:38:31 John Horstman HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost? 21:38:46 BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you. And that's why the FDA and that's why the surgeon general are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world. BUSH: And we've just got to make sure, before somebody thinks they're buying a product, that it works. And that's why we're doing what we're doing. Now, it may very well be here in December you'll hear me say, I think there's a safe way to do it. There are other ways to make sure drugs are cheaper. One is to speed up generic drugs to the marketplace, quicker. Pharmaceuticals were using loopholes to keep brand -- brand drugs in place, and generics are much less expensive than brand drugs. And we're doing just that. Another is to pass -- to get our seniors to sign up to these drug discount cards, and they're working. Wanda Blackmore I met here from Missouri, the first time she bought drugs with her drug discount card, she paid $1.14, I think it was, for about $10 worth of drugs. These cards make sense. BUSH: And, you know, in 2006 seniors are going to get prescription drug coverage for the first time in Medicare. Because I went to Washington to fix problems. Medicare -- the issue of Medicare used to be called "Mediscare." People didn't want to touch it for fear of getting hurt politically. I wanted to get something done. I think our seniors deserve a modern medical system. And in 2006, our seniors will get prescription drug coverage. Thank you for asking. GIBSON: Senator, a minute and a half. 21:40:40 KERRY: John, you heard the president just say that he thought he might try to be for it. Four years ago, right here in this forum, he was asked the same question: Can't people be able to import drugs from Canada? You know what he said? "I think that makes sense. I think that's a good idea" -- four years ago. Now, the president said, "I'm not blocking that." Ladies and gentlemen, the president just didn't level with you right now again. KERRY: He did block it, because we passed it in the United States Senate. We sent it over to the House, that you could import drugs. We took care of the safety issues. We're not talking about third-world drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles. And we're asking to be able to allow you to get them. The president blocked it. The president also took Medicare, which belongs to you. And he could have lowered the cost of Medicare and lowered your taxes and lowered the costs to seniors. You know what he did? He made it illegal, illegal for Medicare to do what the V.A. does, which is bulk purchase drugs so that you can lower the price and get them out to you lower. He put $139 billion of windfall profit into the pockets of the drug companies right out of your pockets. That's the difference between us. The president sides with the power companies, the oil companies, the drug companies. And I'm fighting to let you get those drugs from Canada, and I'm fighting to let Medicare survive. I'm fighting for the middle class. That is the difference. 21:42:16 BUSH: If they're safe, they're coming. I want to remind you that it wasn't just my administration that made the decision on safety. President Clinton did the same thing, because we have an obligation to protect you. Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished. I've been in Washington, D.C., three and a half years and led the Congress to reform Medicare so our seniors have got a modern health care system. That's what leadership is all about. 21:42:50 KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry. And this comes from Norma-Jean Laurent. LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters? 21:43:48 KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform. We both believe that, as lawyers -- I'm a lawyer, too. And I believe that we will be able to get a fix that has alluded everybody else because we know how to do it. KERRY: It's in my health-care proposal. Go to johnkerry.com. You can pull it off of the Internet. And you'll find a tort reform plan. Now, ladies and gentlemen, important to understand, the president and his friends try to make a big deal out of it. Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it, particularly for OGBYNs (sic) and for brain surgeons and others? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan. I have a plan to lower the cost of health care for you. I have a plan to cover all children. I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and congressmen give themselves. I have a plan that's going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. KERRY: And I have a plan that will take the catastrophic cases out of the system, off your backs, pay for it out of a federal fund, which lowers the premiums for everybody in America, makes American business more competitive and makes health care more affordable. Now, all of that can happen, but I have to ask you to do one thing: Join me in rolling back the president's unaffordable tax cut for people earning more than $200,000 a year. That's all. Ninety-eight percent of America, I'm giving you a tax cut and I'm giving you health care. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:45:51 BUSH: Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work. The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion in new spending, and he says he going to tax the rich to close the tax gap. He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his programs. That's just reality. BUSH: And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There's a bill on the floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and voted for if he's so much for it. Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year. And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it. It's the largest increase in federal government health care ever. And it fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won from the National Journal. That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, we got several questions along this line, and I'm just curious if you'd go further on what you talked about with tort reform. Would you be favoring capping awards on pain and suffering? Would you limit attorney's fees? KERRY: A follow-up... GIBSON: Yes. A follow-up on this for... 21:47:21 KERRY: Yes, I think we should look at the punitive and we should have some limitations. But look, what's really important, Charlie, is the president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, "compassionate conservative," what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history. Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2. I mean, seriously -- labels don't mean anything. What means something is: Do you have a plan? And I want to talk about my plan some more -- I hope we can. GIBSON: We'll get to that in just a minute. Thirty seconds, President Bush. 21:48:11 BUSH: You're right, what does matter is a plan. He said he's for -- you're now for capping punitive damages? BUSH: That's odd. You should have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then. Medical liability issues are a problem, a significant problem. He's been in the United States Senate for 20 years and he hasn't addressed it. We passed it out of the House of Representatives. Guess where it's stuck? It's stuck in the Senate, because the trial lawyers won't act on it. And he put a trial lawyer on the ticket. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Matthew O'Brien. 21:48:47 Matthew O'Brien O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent. 21:49:13 BUSH: Right, thank you for that. We have a deficit. We have a deficit because this country went into a recession. You might remember the stock market started to decline dramatically six months before I came to office, and then the bubble of the 1990s popped. And that cost us revenue. That cost us revenue. Secondly, we're at war. And I'm going to spend what it takes to win the war, more than just $120 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've got to pay our troops more. We have. We've increased money for ammunition and weapons and pay and homeland security. I just told this lady over here we spent -- went from $10 billion to $30 billion to protect the homeland. I think we have an obligation to spend that kind of money. And plus, we cut taxes for everybody. Everybody got tax relief, so that they get out of the recession. I think if you raise taxes during a recession, you head to depression. I come from the school of thought that says when people have more money in their pocket during economic times, it increases demand or investment. Small businesses begin to grow, and jobs are added. BUSH: We found out today that over the past 13 months, we've added 1.9 million new jobs in the last 13 months. I proposed a plan, detailed budget, that shows us cutting the deficit in half by five years. And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control. Like you, I'm concerned about the deficit. But I am not going to shortchange our troops in harm's way. And I'm not going to run up taxes, which will cost this economy jobs. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:51:11 KERRY: Let me begin by saying that my health-care plan is not what the president described. It is not a government takeover. You have choice. Choose your doctor, choose your plan. The government has nothing to do with it. KERRY: In fact, it doesn't ask you to do anything -- if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. If you like your high premiums, you keep them. That's the way we leave it. Now with respect to the deficit, the president was handed a $5.6 trillion surplus, ladies and gentlemen. That's where he was when he came into office. We now have a $2.6 trillion deficit. This is the biggest turnaround in the history of the country. He's the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, others, knew how to lead. They knew how to ask the American people for the right things. One percent of America, the highest one percent of income earners in America, got $89 billion of tax cut last year. One percent of America got more than the 80 percent of America that earned from $100,000 down. KERRY: The president thinks it's more important to fight for that top 1 percent than to fight for fiscal responsibility and to fight for you. I want to put money in your pocket. I am -- I have a proposal for a tax cut for all people earning less than the $200,000. The only people affected by my plan are the top income earners of America. GIBSON: I both -- I heard you both say -- I have heard you both say during the campaign, I just heard you say it, that you're going to cut the deficit by a half in four years. But I didn't hear one thing in the last three and a half minutes that would indicate how either one of you do that. 21:52:56 BUSH: Well, look at the budget. One is make sure Congress doesn't overspend. But let me talk back about where we've been. The stock market was declining six months prior to my arrival. BUSH: It was the largest stock market correction -- one of the largest in history, which foretold a recession. Because we cut taxes on everybody -- remember, we ran up the child credit by $1,000, we reduced the marriage penalty, we created a 10 percent bracket, everybody who pays taxes got relief -- the recession was one of the shortest in our nation's history. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 21:53:38 KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question will be for you, and it comes from James Varner, who I believe is in this section. Mr. Varner? You need a microphone. James Varner VARNER: Thank you. 21:54:38 Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language, give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than $200,000 a year during your first term? KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera. Yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut. And here's my tax cut. I raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids. I have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college. And I lower the cost of health care in the way that I described to you. Every part of my program I've shown how I'm going to pay for it. And I've gotten good people, like former Secretary of the Treasury Bob Rubin, for instance, who showed how to balance budgets and give you a good economy, to help me crunch these numbers and make them work. KERRY: I've even scaled back some of my favorite programs already, like the child-care program I wanted to fund and the national service program, because the president's deficit keeps growing and I've said as a pledge, "I'm going to cut the deficit in half in four years." Now, I'm going to restore what we did in the 1990s, ladies and gentlemen: pay as you go. We're going to do it like you do it. The president broke the pay-as-you-go rule. Somebody here asked the question about, "Why haven't you vetoed something?" It's a good question. If you care about it, why don't you veto it? I think John McCain called the energy bill the "No Lobbyist Left Behind" bill. I mean, you've got to stand up and fight somewhere, folks. I'm pledging I will not raise taxes; I'm giving a tax cut to the people earning less than $200,000 a year. Now, for the people earning more than $200,000 a year, you're going to see a rollback to the level we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money. KERRY: And looking around here, at this group here, I suspect there are only three people here who are going to be affected: the president, me, and, Charlie, I'm sorry, you too. (LAUGHTER) GIBSON: Mr. President, 90 seconds. 21:56:38 BUSH: He's just not credible when he talks about being fiscally conservative. He's just not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate, he voted to break the caps -- the spending caps -- over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative, all of a sudden. It's just not credible. You cannot believe it. And of course he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And you say: Well, how are you going to pay for it? He says, well, he's going to raise the taxes on the rich -- that's what he said -- the top two brackets. That raises, he says $800 billion; we say $600 billion. BUSH: We've got battling green eye shades. Somewhere in between those numbers -- and so there's a difference, what he's promised and what he can raise. Now, either he's going to break all these wonderful promises he's told you about or he's going to raise taxes. And I suspect, given his record, he's going to raise taxes. Is my time up yet? GIBSON: No, you can keep going. (LAUGHTER) BUSH: Good. You looked at me like my clock was up. I think that the way to grow this economy is to keep taxes low, is have an energy plan, is to have litigation reform. As I told you, we've just got a report that said over the past 13 months, we've created 1.9 million new jobs. And so the fundamental question of this campaign is: Who's going to keep the economy growing so people can work? That's the fundamental question. GIBSON: I'm going to come back one more time to how these numbers add up and how you can cut that deficit in half in four years, given what you've both said. 21:58:13 KERRY: Well, first of all, the president's figures of $2.2 trillion just aren't accurate. Those are the fuzzy math figures put together by some group that works for the campaign. That's not the number. Number two, John McCain and I have a proposal, jointly, for a commission that closes corporate giveaway loopholes. We've got $40 billion going to Bermuda. We've got all kinds of giveaways. We ought to be shutting those down. And third, credible: Ladies and gentlemen, in 1985, I was one of the first Democrats to move to balance the budget. I voted for the balanced budget in '93 and '97. We did it. We did it. And I was there. GIBSON: Thirty seconds. I'm sorry, thirty seconds, Mr. President. 21:58:57 BUSH: Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide. He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures. And so people are going to have to look at the record. Look at the record of the man running for the president. BUSH: They don't name him the most liberal in the United States Senate because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named him because of his votes. And it's reality. It's just not credible to say he's going to keep taxes down and balance budgets. GIBSON: Mr. President, the next question is for you, and it comes from James Hubb over here. James Hubb HUBB: Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply? 21:59:47 BUSH: Off-road diesel engines -- we have reached an agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90 percent. I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by 3 million. We've got an aggressive brown field program to refurbish inner-city sore spots to useful pieces of property. I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent. I have -- was fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the conservation reserve program to set aside millions of acres of land to help improve wildlife and the habitat. We proposed and passed a healthy forest bill which was essential to working with -- particularly in Western states -- to make sure that our forests were protected. BUSH: What happens in those forests, because of lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like tinderboxes. And over the last summers I've flown over there. And so, this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and at the same time make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest fires that have destroyed acres after acres in the West. We've got a good, common-sense policy. Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen over time is technology is going to change the way we live for the good for the environment. That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending $1 billion to come up with the technologies to do that. That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make sure we can use coal but in a clean way. I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land. BUSH: The quality of the air's cleaner since I've been the president. Fewer water complaints since I've been the president. More land being restored since I've been the president. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, minute and a half. 22:01:50 KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment. Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not. Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels around. Labels don't mean anything. I supported welfare reform. I led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was heresy. Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen. Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of the worst administrations in modern history. KERRY: The Clear Skies bill that he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of the sky, slap it onto something, like "No Child Left Behind" but you leave millions of children behind. Here they're leaving the skies and the environment behind. If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today, no change, the air would be cleaner that it is if you pass the Clear Skies act. We're going backwards. In fact, his environmental enforcement chief air-quality person at the EPA resigned in protest over what they're doing to what are calling the new source performance standards for air quality. They're going backwards on the definition for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality. They pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead, didn't even accept the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science. GIBSON: Mr. President? 22:03:29 BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyoto treaty, which I guess he's referring to, it would have cost America a lot of jobs. It's one of these deals where, in order to be popular in the halls of Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I think there's a better way to do it. BUSH: And I just told you the facts, sir. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been the president of the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and development, because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're accustomed to and being able to protect our environment better, the use of technologies. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 22:03:57 KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto, and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this president didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen, and we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You wonder, Nikki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the world. You just say: Hey, we don't agree with you. Goodbye. The president's done nothing to try to fix it. I will. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you. It involves jobs, which is a topic of the news today. GIBSON: And for the question, we're going to turn to Jane Barrow. Jane Barrow BARROW: Senator Kerry, how can the U.S. be competitive in manufacturing given -- in manufacturing, excuse me -- given the wage necessary and comfortably accepted for American workers to maintain the standard of living that they expect? 22:04:56 KERRY: Jane, there are a lot of ways to be competitive. And unfortunately again I regret this administration has not seized them and embraced them. Let me give you an example. There is a tax loophole right now. If you're a company in St. Louis working, trying to make jobs here, there is actually an incentive for you to go away. You get more money, you keep more of your taxes by going abroad. I'm going to shut that loophole, and I'm going to give the tax benefit to the companies that stay here in America to help make them more competitive. Secondly, we're going to create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America. Third, what's really hurting American business more than anything else is the cost of health care. Now, you didn't hear any plan from the president, because he doesn't have a plan to lower the cost of health care. KERRY: Five million Americans have lost their health care; 620,000 Missourians have no health care at all; 96,000 Missourians have lost their health care under President Bush. I have a plan to cover those folks. And it's a plan that lowers cost for everybody, covers all children. And the way I pay for it -- I'm not fiscally irresponsible -- is I roll back the tax cut this president so fiercely wants to defend, the one for him and me and Charlie. I think you ought to get the break. I want to lower your cost to health care. I want to fully fund education, No Child Left Behind, special-needs education. And that's how we're going to be more competitive, by making sure our kids are graduating from school and college. China and India are graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are. KERRY: We've got to create the products of the future. That's why I have a plan for energy independence within 10 years. And we're going to put our laboratories and our colleges and our universities to work. And we're going to get the great entrepreneurial spirit of this country, and we're going to free ourselves from this dependency on Mideast oil. That's how you create jobs and become competitive. GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half. 22:06:59 BUSH: Let me start with how to control the cost of health care: medical liability reform, for starters, which he's opposed. Secondly, allow small businesses to pool together so they can share risk and buy insurance at the same discounts big businesses get to do. Thirdly, spread what's called health savings accounts. It's good for small businesses, good for owners. You own your own account. You can save tax-free. You get a catastrophic plan to help you on it. This is different from saying, "OK, let me incent you to go on the government." He's talking about his plan to keep jobs here. You know he calls it an outsourcing to keep -- stop outsourcing. Robert Rubin looked at his plan and said it won't work. BUSH: The best way to keep jobs here in America is, one, have an energy plan. I proposed one to the Congress two years ago, encourages conservation, encourages technology to explore for environmentally friendly ways for coal -- to use coal and gas. It encourages the use of renewables like ethanol and biodiesel. It's stuck in the Senate. He and his running-mate didn't show up to vote when they could have got it going in the Senate. Less regulations if we want jobs here; legal reform if we want jobs here; and we've got to keep taxes low. Now, he says he's only going to tax the rich. Do you realize, 900,000 small businesses will be taxed under his plan because most small businesses are Subchapter S corps or limited partnerships, and they pay tax at the individual income tax level. And so when you're running up the taxes like that, you're taxing job creators, and that's not how you keep jobs here. GIBSON: Senator, I want to extend for a minute, you talk about tax cuts to stop outsourcing. But when you have IBM documents that I saw recently where you can hire a programmer for $12 in China, $56 an hour here, tax credits won't cut it. 22:08:47 KERRY: You can't stop all outsourcing, Charlie. I've never promised that. I'm not going to, because that would be pandering. You can't. But what you can do is create a fair playing field, and that's what I'm talking about. But let me just address what the president just said. Ladies and gentlemen, that's just not true what he said. The Wall Street Journal said 96 percent of small businesses are not affected at all by my plan. And you know why he gets that count? The president got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business. Dick Cheney's counted as a small business. That's how they do things. That's just not right. 22:09:21 BUSH: I own a timber company? (LAUGHTER) That's news to me. (LAUGHTER) Need some wood? (LAUGHTER) Most small businesses are Subchapter S corps. They just are. BUSH: I met Grant Milliron, Mansfield, Ohio. He's creating jobs. Most small businesses -- 70 percent of the new jobs in America are created by small businesses. Taxes are going up when you run up the top two brackets. It's a fact. GIBSON: President Bush, the next question is for you, and it comes from Rob Fowler, who I believe is over in this area. 22:10:22 Rob Fowler FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms? 22:10:26 BUSH: I appreciate that. I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. Every action being taken against terrorists requires court order, requires scrutiny. BUSH: As a matter of fact, the tools now given to the terrorist fighters are the same tools that we've been using against drug dealers and white-collar criminals. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. The Patriot Act is necessary, for example, because parts of the FBI couldn't talk to each other. The intelligence-gathering and the law-enforcement arms of the FBI just couldn't share intelligence under the old law. And that didn't make any sense. Our law enforcement must have every tool necessary to find and disrupt terrorists at home and abroad before they hurt us again. That's the task of the 21st century. And so, I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all. BUSH: And I know it's necessary. I can remember being in upstate New York talking to FBI agents that helped bust a Lackawanna cell up there. And they told me they could not have performed their duty, the duty we all expect of them, if they did not have the ability to communicate with each other under the Patriot Act. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 22:12:05 KERRY: Former Governor Racicot, as chairman of the Republican Party, said he thought that the Patriot Act has to be changed and fixed. Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, he is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said over his dead body before it gets... 22:12:19 END OF TAPE.

FTG OF THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT GEORGE W BUSH AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MASS) MODERATED BY ABC ANCHOR CHARLES GIBSON / DEBATE SWITCHED AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY. 20:43:30 NATS INT FTG OF DEBATE IN PROGRESS AS GIBSON ADDRESSES THE AUDIENCE. 20:48:33 FTG OF FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH AND KERRY'S WIFE, TERESA HEINZ KERRY ARE INTRODUCED. 21:01:50 GIBSON INTRODUCTIONS. 21:03:30 BUSH AND KERRY ARRIVE AND SHAKE HANDS. 21:03:59 GIBSON: Gentlemen, to the business at hand. The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me. 21:04:10 Cheryl Ann Otis OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too wishy-washy. Do you have a reply for them? KERRY: Yes, I certainly do. (LAUGHTER) 21:04:28 KERRY: But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington University for hosting us here this evening. Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening, sir. Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other. Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican Party thinks we ought to change a few things. KERRY: No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I support the goals. But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion. Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers. You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child Left Behind Act to help your education system here. So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it. So these are the differences. Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to lose jobs. I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy- washy. I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong. KERRY: I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000 or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:06:30 BUSH: Charlie, thank you, and thank our panelists. And, Senator, thank you. I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well. I can see why people at your workplace think he changes positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for it. And that sends a confusing signal to people. He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. BUSH: No, I can see why people think that he changes position quite often, because he does. You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions. I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics. He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty, created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income Americans. That's right at the middle class. BUSH: He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've got to be firm and consistent. GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next questioner. The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is Robin Dahle. 21:08:15 Robin Dahle DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed this knowledge to our terrorist enemies." Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable justification for invasion when this statement applies to so many other countries, including North Korea? 21:08:50 BUSH: Each situation is different, Robin. And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to hurt us. In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all. I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been brought to justice. That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to plan. BUSH: And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted to restart his weapons programs. We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a grave threat. I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why. But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more dangerous. BUSH: Thank you, sir. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:10:57 KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question. I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl, at the same time. The world is more dangerous today. The world is more dangerous today because the president didn't make the right judgments. Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He wants you to believe that because he can't come here and tell you that he's created new jobs for America. He's lost jobs. He can't come here and tell you that he's created health care for Americans because, what, we've got 5 million Americans who have lost their health care, 96,000 of them right here in Missouri. He can't come here and tell you that he's left no child behind because he didn't fund no child left behind. So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to believe that I can't be president. And he's trying to make you believe it because he wants you to think I change my mind. KERRY: Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat. Believed it in 1998 when Clinton was president. I wanted to give Clinton the power to use force if necessary. But I would have used that force wisely, I would have used that authority wisely, not rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. I would have brought our allies to our side. I would have fought to make certain our troops had everybody possible to help them win the mission. This president rushed to war, pushed our allies aside. And Iran now is more dangerous, and so is North Korea, with nuclear weapons. He took his eye off the ball, off of Osama bin Laden. GIBSON: Mr. President, I do want to follow up on this one, because there were several questions from the audience along this line. BUSH: (OFF-MIKE) GIBSON: Go ahead. Go ahead. (CROSSTALK) GIBSON: Well, I was going to have you do the rebuttal on it, but you go ahead. (LAUGHTER) You're up. 21:12:38 BUSH: You remember the last debate? BUSH: My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, "Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well." Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein. GIBSON: Senator? 21:13:15 KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective. And if we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq. And right now, Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war against terror. GIBSON: We're going to have another question now on the subject of Iraq. GIBSON: And I'm going to turn to Anthony Baldi with a question for Senator Kerry. Mr. Baldi? Anthony G Baldi BALDI: Senator Kerry, the U.S. is preparing a new Iraq government and will proceed to withdraw U.S. troops. Would you proceed with the same plans as President Bush? 21:14:08 KERRY: Anthony, I would not. I have laid out a different plan, because the president's plan is not working. You see that every night on television. There's chaos in Iraq. King Abdullah of Jordan said just yesterday or the day before you can't hold elections in Iraq with the chaos that's going on today. Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. KERRY: Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee. Now, I have to tell you, I would do something different. I would reach out to our allies in a way that this president hasn't. He pushed them away time and again, pushed them away at the U.N., pushed them away individually. Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the North Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed the possibility of a small training unit or having a total takeover of the training in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total training of Iraq? No. Were they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to bring all the allies together around that? No, because they've always wanted this to be an American effort. You know, they even had the Defense Department issue a memorandum saying, "Don't bother applying for assistance or for being part of the reconstruction if you weren't part of our original coalition." KERRY: Now, that's not a good way to build support and reduce the risk for our troops and make America safer. I'm going to get the training done for our troops. I'm going to get the training of Iraqis done faster. And I'm going to get our allies back to the table. 21:16:01 BUSH: Two days ago in the Oval Office, I met with the finance minister from Iraq. He came to see me. And he talked about how optimistic he was and the country was about heading toward elections. Think about it: They're going from tyranny to elections. He talked about the reconstruction efforts that are beginning to take hold. He talked about the fact that Iraqis love to be free. He said he was optimistic when he came here, then he turned on the TV and listened to the political rhetoric and all of a sudden he was pessimistic. Now, this is guy a who, along with others, has taken great risk for great freedom. And we need to stand with him. My opponent says he has a plan; it sounds familiar, because it's called the Bush plan. We're going to train troops, and we are. We'll have 125,000 trained by the end of December. We're spending about $7 billion. BUSH: He talks about a grand idea: Let's have a summit; we're going to solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to say to those people that show up at the summit? Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place. Risk your troops in a war you've called a mistake. Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time. I talk to Tony Blair all the time. I talk to Silvio Berlusconi. They're not going to follow an American president who says follow me into a mistake. Our plan is working. We're going to make elections. And Iraq is going to be free, and America will be better off for it. GIBSON: Do you want to follow up, Senator? 21:17:38 KERRY: Yes, sir, please. Ladies and gentlemen, the right war was Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan. That was the right place. And the right time was Tora Bora, when we had him cornered in the mountains. Now, everyone in the world knows that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force, not after excuse to get rid of the regime. Now we have to succeed. I've always said that. I have been consistent. Yes, we have to succeed, and I have a better plan to help us do it. 21:18:10 BUSH: First of all, we didn't find out he didn't have weapons until we got there, and my opponent thought he had weapons and told everybody he thought he had weapons. And secondly, it's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only Osama bin Laden. The war on terror is to make sure that these terrorist organizations do not end up with weapons of mass destruction. That's what the war on terror is about. Of course, we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already 75 percent of his people. And we're on the hunt for him. But this is a global conflict that requires firm resolve. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Nikki Washington. 21:18:51 Nikki Washington WASHINGTON: Thank you. Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation? 21:19:17 BUSH: No, I appreciate that. I -- listen, I -- we've got a great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of our country. I remember when Ronald Reagan was the president; he stood on principle. Somebody called that stubborn. He stood on principle standing up to the Soviet Union, and we won that conflict. Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe because of the decisions he made. BUSH: I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of our security. You know, I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat, because I felt like he had let the former president down, and I don't think he's the kind of person that can lead toward a Palestinian state. And people in Europe didn't like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing to do. I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they need leadership that's committed to a democracy and freedom, leadership that would be willing to reject terrorism. I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in front of a judge, an unaccounted judge. BUSH: I don't think we ought to join that. That was unpopular. And so, what I'm telling you is, is that sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think they're right. We'll continue to reach out. Listen, there is 30 nations involved in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan. People love America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing. You don't want to join the International Criminal Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:21:23 KERRY: Nikki, that's a question that's been raised by a lot of people around the country. Let me address it but also talk about the weapons the president just talked about, because every part of the president's answer just now promises you more of the same over the next four years. The president stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he was asked a question by somebody just like you, "Under what circumstances would you send people to war?" KERRY: And his answer was, "With a viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done." He didn't do that. He broke that promise. We didn't have enough forces. General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, told him he was going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what? They retired General Shinseki for telling him that. This president hasn't listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable. I came away convinced that, if we worked at it, if we were ready to work and letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us. But the president just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said, "Nope. Sorry, time for diplomacy is over. We're going." He rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. Ladies and gentleman, he gave you a speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:22:55 BUSH: I remember sitting in the White House looking at those generals, saying, "Do you have what you need in this war? Do you have what it takes?" I remember going down to the basement of the White House the day we committed our troops as last resort, looking at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground, asking them, "Do we have the right plan with the right troop level?" And they looked me in the eye and said, "Yes, sir, Mr. President." Of course, I listen to our generals. That's what a president does. A president sets the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy. GIBSON: Senator? 21:23:31 KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to say, "You're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the peace." The military's job is to win the war. KERRY: A president's job is to win the peace. The president did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nation. Didn't deliver the help. Didn't close off the borders. Didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry, and it comes from over here, from Randee Jacobs. You'll need a microphone. KERRY: Is it Randee? 21:24:02 Randee Brown Jacobs JACOBS: Yes, Randee. Iran sponsors terrorism and has missiles capable of hitting Israel and southern Europe. Iran will have nuclear weapons in two to three years time. In the event that U.N. sanctions don't stop this threat, what will you do as president? 21:24:29 KERRY: I don't think you can just rely on U.N. sanctions, Randee. But you're absolutely correct, it is a threat, it's a huge threat. And what's interesting is, it's a threat that has grown while the president has been preoccupied with Iraq, where there wasn't a threat. KERRY: If he'd let the inspectors do their job and go on, we wouldn't have 10 times the numbers of forces in Iraq that we have in Afghanistan chasing Osama bin Laden. Meanwhile, while Iran is moving toward nuclear weapons, some 37 tons of what they called yellow cake, the stuff they use to make enriched uranium, while they're doing that, North Korea has moved from one bomb maybe, maybe, to four to seven bombs. For two years, the president didn't even engage with North Korea, did nothing at all, while it was growing more dangerous, despite the warnings of former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who negotiated getting television cameras and inspectors into that reactor. We were safer before President Bush came to office. Now they have the bombs and we're less safe. So what do we do? We've got to join with the British and the French, with the Germans, who've been involved, in their initiative. We've got to lead the world now to crack down on proliferation as a whole. KERRY: But the president's been slow to do that, even in Russia. At his pace, it's going to take 13 years to reduce and get ahold of all the loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. I've proposed a plan that can capture it and contain it and clean it within four years. And the president is moving to the creation of our own bunker- busting nuclear weapon. It's very hard to get other countries to give up their weapons when you're busy developing a new one. I'm going to lead the world in the greatest counterproliferation effort. And if we have to get tough with Iran, believe me, we will get tough. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:26:29 BUSH: That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, "Let the inspectors do their job." It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. Secondly, of course we've been involved with Iran. BUSH: I fully understand the threat. And that's why we're doing what he suggested we do: Get the Brits, the Germans and the French to go make it very clear to the Iranians that if they expect to be a party to the world to give up their nuclear ambitions. We've been doing that. Let me talk about North Korea. It is naive and dangerous to take a policy that he suggested the other day, which is to have bilateral relations with North Korea. Remember, he's the person who's accusing me of not acting multilaterally. He now wants to take the six-party talks we have -- China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, Japan and the United States -- and undermine them by having bilateral talks. That's what President Clinton did. He had bilateral talks with the North Koreans. And guess what happened? BUSH: He didn't honor the agreement. He was enriching uranium. That is a bad policy. Of course, we're paying attention to these. It's a great question about Iran. That's why in my speech to the Congress I said: There's an "Axis of Evil," Iraq, Iran and North Korea, and we're paying attention to it. And we're making progress. GIBSON: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley. Mr. Farley? 21:28:04 Daniel Farley FARLEY: Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do you intend to maintain our military presence without reinstituting a draft? 21:28:04 BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets. An all-volunteer army is best suited to fight the new wars of the 21st century, which is to be specialized and to find these people as they hide around the world. BUSH: We don't need mass armies anymore. One of the things we've done is we've taken the -- we're beginning to transform our military. And by that I mean we're moving troops out of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent. In Europe, we have massed troops as if the Soviet Union existed and was going to invade into Europe, but those days are over with. And so we're moving troops out of Europe and replacing it with more effective equipment. So to answer your question is, we're withdrawing, not from the world, we're withdrawing manpower so they can be stationed here in America, so there's less rotation, so life is easier on their families and therefore more likely to be -- we'll be more likely to be able to keep people in the all-volunteer army. One of the more important things we're doing in this administration is transformation. There are some really interesting technologies. BUSH: For instance, we're flying unmanned vehicles that can send real-time messages back to stations in the United States. That saves manpower, and it saves equipment. It also means that we can target things easier and move more quickly, which means we need to be lighter and quicker and more facile and highly trained. Now, forget all this talk about a draft. We're not going to have a draft so long as I am the president. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:30:19 KERRY: Daniel, I don't support a draft. But let me tell you where the president's policies have put us. The president -- and this is one of the reasons why I am very proud in this race to have the support of General John Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Admiral William Crowe, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Tony McPeak, who ran the air war for the president's father and did a brilliant job, supporting me; General Wes Clark, who won the war in Kosovo, supporting me; because they all -- and General Baca, who was the head of the National Guard, supporting me. KERRY: Why? Because they understand that our military is overextended under the president. Our Guard and reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies, so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a back-door draft right now. And a lot of our military are underpaid. These are families that get hurt. It hurts the middle class. It hurts communities, because these are our first responders. And they're called up. And they're over there, not over here. Now, I'm going to add 40,000 active duty forces to the military, and I'm going to make people feel good about being safe in our military, and not overextended, because I'm going to run a foreign policy that actually does what President Reagan did, President Eisenhower did, and others. We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did. GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute... BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this. GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty... (CROSSTALK) BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world. GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft... 21:31:53 BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. There are 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone, to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say, you know, you're going alone. And people listen. They're sacrificing with us. GIBSON: Senator? 21:32:31 KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. KERRY: That's not a grand coalition. Ninety percent of the casualties are American. Ninety percent of the costs are coming out of your pockets. I could do a better job. My plan does a better job. And that's why I'll be a better commander in chief. GIBSON: The next question, Senator Kerry, is for you, and it comes from Ann Bronsing, who I believe is over in this area. 21:33:04 Ann Bronsing BRONSING: Senator Kerry, we have been fortunate that there have been no further terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. Why do you think this is? And if elected, what will you do to assure our safety? 21:33:35 KERRY: Thank you very much, Ann. I've asked in my security briefings why that is, and I can't go into all the answers, et cetera, but let me say this to you. This president and his administration have told you and all of us it's not a question of when, it's a question of -- excuse me -- not a question of if, it's a question of when. We've been told that. KERRY: The when I can't tell you. Between the World Trade Center bombing in, what was it, 1993 or so, and the next time was five years, seven years. These people wait. They'll plan. They plot. I agree with the president that we have to go after them and get them wherever they are. I just think I can do that far more effectively, because the most important weapon in doing that is intelligence. You've got to have the best intelligence in the world. And in order to have the best intelligence in the world to know who the terrorists are and where they are and what they're plotting, you've got to have the best cooperation you've ever had in the world. Now, to go back to your question, Nikki, we're not getting the best cooperation in the world today. We've got a whole bunch of countries that pay a price for dealing with the United States of America now. I'm going to change that. And I'm going to put in place a better homeland security effort. Look, 95 percent of our containers coming into this country are not inspected today. When you get on an airplane, your bag is X- rayed, but the cargo hold isn't X-rayed. Do you feel safer? KERRY: This president in the last debate said, "Well, that would be a big tax gap if we did that." Ladies and gentlemen, it's his tax plan. He chose a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans over getting that equipment out into the homeland as fast as possible. We have bridges and tunnels that aren't being secured, chemical plants, nuclear plants that aren't secured, hospitals that are overcrowded with their emergency rooms. If we had a disaster today, could they handle it? This president chose a tax cut over homeland security. Wrong choice. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:35:31 BUSH: That's an odd thing to say, since we've tripled the homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion. Listen, we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent's right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion. The best way to defend America in this world we live in is to stay on the offense. We got to be right 100 percent of the time here at home, and they got to be right once. And that's the reality. And there's a lot of good people working hard. We're doing the best we possibly can to share information. That's why the Patriot Act was important. BUSH: The Patriot Act is vital, by the way. It's a tool that law enforcement now uses to be able to talk between each other. My opponent says he hadn't changed his position on it. No, but he's for weakening it. I don't think my opponent has got the right view about the world to make us safe; I really don't. First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place. This war is a long, long war, and it requires steadfast determination and it requires a complete understanding that we not only chase down Al Qaida but we disrupt terrorist safe havens as well as people who could provide the terrorists with support. GIBSON: I want to extend for a minute, Senator. And I'm curious about something you said. You said, "It's not when, but if." You think it's inevitable because the sense of security is a very basic thing with everybody in this country worried about their kids. 21:37:22 KERRY: Well, the president and his experts have told America that it's not a question of if; it's a question of when. And I accept what the president has said. These terrorists are serious, they're deadly, and they know nothing except trying to kill. I understand that. That's why I will never stop at anything to hunt down and kill the terrorists. But you heard the president just say to you that we've added money. Folks, the test is not if you've added money; the test is that you've done everything possible to make America secure. He chose a tax cut for wealthy Americans over the things that I listed to you. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:37:55 BUSH: Well, we'll talk about the tax cut for middle class here in a minute. But yes, I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country. And all I can tell you is every day I know that there's people working overtime, doing the very best they can. And the reason I'm worried is because there's a vicious enemy that has an ideology of hate. And the way to defeat them long-term, by the way, is to spread freedom. BUSH: Liberty can change habits. And that's what's happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. GIBSON: Mr. President, we're going to turn to questions now on domestic policy. And we're going to start with health issues. And the first question is for President Bush and it's from John Horstman. 21:38:31 John Horstman HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost? 21:38:46 BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you. And that's why the FDA and that's why the surgeon general are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world. BUSH: And we've just got to make sure, before somebody thinks they're buying a product, that it works. And that's why we're doing what we're doing. Now, it may very well be here in December you'll hear me say, I think there's a safe way to do it. There are other ways to make sure drugs are cheaper. One is to speed up generic drugs to the marketplace, quicker. Pharmaceuticals were using loopholes to keep brand -- brand drugs in place, and generics are much less expensive than brand drugs. And we're doing just that. Another is to pass -- to get our seniors to sign up to these drug discount cards, and they're working. Wanda Blackmore I met here from Missouri, the first time she bought drugs with her drug discount card, she paid $1.14, I think it was, for about $10 worth of drugs. These cards make sense. BUSH: And, you know, in 2006 seniors are going to get prescription drug coverage for the first time in Medicare. Because I went to Washington to fix problems. Medicare -- the issue of Medicare used to be called "Mediscare." People didn't want to touch it for fear of getting hurt politically. I wanted to get something done. I think our seniors deserve a modern medical system. And in 2006, our seniors will get prescription drug coverage. Thank you for asking. GIBSON: Senator, a minute and a half. 21:40:40 KERRY: John, you heard the president just say that he thought he might try to be for it. Four years ago, right here in this forum, he was asked the same question: Can't people be able to import drugs from Canada? You know what he said? "I think that makes sense. I think that's a good idea" -- four years ago. Now, the president said, "I'm not blocking that." Ladies and gentlemen, the president just didn't level with you right now again. KERRY: He did block it, because we passed it in the United States Senate. We sent it over to the House, that you could import drugs. We took care of the safety issues. We're not talking about third-world drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles. And we're asking to be able to allow you to get them. The president blocked it. The president also took Medicare, which belongs to you. And he could have lowered the cost of Medicare and lowered your taxes and lowered the costs to seniors. You know what he did? He made it illegal, illegal for Medicare to do what the V.A. does, which is bulk purchase drugs so that you can lower the price and get them out to you lower. He put $139 billion of windfall profit into the pockets of the drug companies right out of your pockets. That's the difference between us. The president sides with the power companies, the oil companies, the drug companies. And I'm fighting to let you get those drugs from Canada, and I'm fighting to let Medicare survive. I'm fighting for the middle class. That is the difference. 21:42:16 BUSH: If they're safe, they're coming. I want to remind you that it wasn't just my administration that made the decision on safety. President Clinton did the same thing, because we have an obligation to protect you. Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished. I've been in Washington, D.C., three and a half years and led the Congress to reform Medicare so our seniors have got a modern health care system. That's what leadership is all about. 21:42:50 KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry. And this comes from Norma-Jean Laurent. LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters? 21:43:48 KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform. We both believe that, as lawyers -- I'm a lawyer, too. And I believe that we will be able to get a fix that has alluded everybody else because we know how to do it. KERRY: It's in my health-care proposal. Go to johnkerry.com. You can pull it off of the Internet. And you'll find a tort reform plan. Now, ladies and gentlemen, important to understand, the president and his friends try to make a big deal out of it. Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it, particularly for OGBYNs (sic) and for brain surgeons and others? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan. I have a plan to lower the cost of health care for you. I have a plan to cover all children. I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and congressmen give themselves. I have a plan that's going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. KERRY: And I have a plan that will take the catastrophic cases out of the system, off your backs, pay for it out of a federal fund, which lowers the premiums for everybody in America, makes American business more competitive and makes health care more affordable. Now, all of that can happen, but I have to ask you to do one thing: Join me in rolling back the president's unaffordable tax cut for people earning more than $200,000 a year. That's all. Ninety-eight percent of America, I'm giving you a tax cut and I'm giving you health care. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:45:51 BUSH: Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work. The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion in new spending, and he says he going to tax the rich to close the tax gap. He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his programs. That's just reality. BUSH: And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There's a bill on the floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and voted for if he's so much for it. Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year. And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it. It's the largest increase in federal government health care ever. And it fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won from the National Journal. That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, we got several questions along this line, and I'm just curious if you'd go further on what you talked about with tort reform. Would you be favoring capping awards on pain and suffering? Would you limit attorney's fees? KERRY: A follow-up... GIBSON: Yes. A follow-up on this for... 21:47:21 KERRY: Yes, I think we should look at the punitive and we should have some limitations. But look, what's really important, Charlie, is the president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, "compassionate conservative," what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history. Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2. I mean, seriously -- labels don't mean anything. What means something is: Do you have a plan? And I want to talk about my plan some more -- I hope we can. GIBSON: We'll get to that in just a minute. Thirty seconds, President Bush. 21:48:11 BUSH: You're right, what does matter is a plan. He said he's for -- you're now for capping punitive damages? BUSH: That's odd. You should have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then. Medical liability issues are a problem, a significant problem. He's been in the United States Senate for 20 years and he hasn't addressed it. We passed it out of the House of Representatives. Guess where it's stuck? It's stuck in the Senate, because the trial lawyers won't act on it. And he put a trial lawyer on the ticket. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Matthew O'Brien. 21:48:47 Matthew O'Brien O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent. 21:49:13 BUSH: Right, thank you for that. We have a deficit. We have a deficit because this country went into a recession. You might remember the stock market started to decline dramatically six months before I came to office, and then the bubble of the 1990s popped. And that cost us revenue. That cost us revenue. Secondly, we're at war. And I'm going to spend what it takes to win the war, more than just $120 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've got to pay our troops more. We have. We've increased money for ammunition and weapons and pay and homeland security. I just told this lady over here we spent -- went from $10 billion to $30 billion to protect the homeland. I think we have an obligation to spend that kind of money. And plus, we cut taxes for everybody. Everybody got tax relief, so that they get out of the recession. I think if you raise taxes during a recession, you head to depression. I come from the school of thought that says when people have more money in their pocket during economic times, it increases demand or investment. Small businesses begin to grow, and jobs are added. BUSH: We found out today that over the past 13 months, we've added 1.9 million new jobs in the last 13 months. I proposed a plan, detailed budget, that shows us cutting the deficit in half by five years. And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control. Like you, I'm concerned about the deficit. But I am not going to shortchange our troops in harm's way. And I'm not going to run up taxes, which will cost this economy jobs. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:51:11 KERRY: Let me begin by saying that my health-care plan is not what the president described. It is not a government takeover. You have choice. Choose your doctor, choose your plan. The government has nothing to do with it. KERRY: In fact, it doesn't ask you to do anything -- if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. If you like your high premiums, you keep them. That's the way we leave it. Now with respect to the deficit, the president was handed a $5.6 trillion surplus, ladies and gentlemen. That's where he was when he came into office. We now have a $2.6 trillion deficit. This is the biggest turnaround in the history of the country. He's the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, others, knew how to lead. They knew how to ask the American people for the right things. One percent of America, the highest one percent of income earners in America, got $89 billion of tax cut last year. One percent of America got more than the 80 percent of America that earned from $100,000 down. KERRY: The president thinks it's more important to fight for that top 1 percent than to fight for fiscal responsibility and to fight for you. I want to put money in your pocket. I am -- I have a proposal for a tax cut for all people earning less than the $200,000. The only people affected by my plan are the top income earners of America. GIBSON: I both -- I heard you both say -- I have heard you both say during the campaign, I just heard you say it, that you're going to cut the deficit by a half in four years. But I didn't hear one thing in the last three and a half minutes that would indicate how either one of you do that. 21:52:56 BUSH: Well, look at the budget. One is make sure Congress doesn't overspend. But let me talk back about where we've been. The stock market was declining six months prior to my arrival. BUSH: It was the largest stock market correction -- one of the largest in history, which foretold a recession. Because we cut taxes on everybody -- remember, we ran up the child credit by $1,000, we reduced the marriage penalty, we created a 10 percent bracket, everybody who pays taxes got relief -- the recession was one of the shortest in our nation's history. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 21:53:38 KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question will be for you, and it comes from James Varner, who I believe is in this section. Mr. Varner? You need a microphone. James Varner VARNER: Thank you. 21:54:38 Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language, give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than $200,000 a year during your first term? KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera. Yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut. And here's my tax cut. I raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids. I have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college. And I lower the cost of health care in the way that I described to you. Every part of my program I've shown how I'm going to pay for it. And I've gotten good people, like former Secretary of the Treasury Bob Rubin, for instance, who showed how to balance budgets and give you a good economy, to help me crunch these numbers and make them work. KERRY: I've even scaled back some of my favorite programs already, like the child-care program I wanted to fund and the national service program, because the president's deficit keeps growing and I've said as a pledge, "I'm going to cut the deficit in half in four years." Now, I'm going to restore what we did in the 1990s, ladies and gentlemen: pay as you go. We're going to do it like you do it. The president broke the pay-as-you-go rule. Somebody here asked the question about, "Why haven't you vetoed something?" It's a good question. If you care about it, why don't you veto it? I think John McCain called the energy bill the "No Lobbyist Left Behind" bill. I mean, you've got to stand up and fight somewhere, folks. I'm pledging I will not raise taxes; I'm giving a tax cut to the people earning less than $200,000 a year. Now, for the people earning more than $200,000 a year, you're going to see a rollback to the level we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money. KERRY: And looking around here, at this group here, I suspect there are only three people here who are going to be affected: the president, me, and, Charlie, I'm sorry, you too. (LAUGHTER) GIBSON: Mr. President, 90 seconds. 21:56:38 BUSH: He's just not credible when he talks about being fiscally conservative. He's just not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate, he voted to break the caps -- the spending caps -- over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative, all of a sudden. It's just not credible. You cannot believe it. And of course he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And you say: Well, how are you going to pay for it? He says, well, he's going to raise the taxes on the rich -- that's what he said -- the top two brackets. That raises, he says $800 billion; we say $600 billion. BUSH: We've got battling green eye shades. Somewhere in between those numbers -- and so there's a difference, what he's promised and what he can raise. Now, either he's going to break all these wonderful promises he's told you about or he's going to raise taxes. And I suspect, given his record, he's going to raise taxes. Is my time up yet? GIBSON: No, you can keep going. (LAUGHTER) BUSH: Good. You looked at me like my clock was up. I think that the way to grow this economy is to keep taxes low, is have an energy plan, is to have litigation reform. As I told you, we've just got a report that said over the past 13 months, we've created 1.9 million new jobs. And so the fundamental question of this campaign is: Who's going to keep the economy growing so people can work? That's the fundamental question. GIBSON: I'm going to come back one more time to how these numbers add up and how you can cut that deficit in half in four years, given what you've both said. 21:58:13 KERRY: Well, first of all, the president's figures of $2.2 trillion just aren't accurate. Those are the fuzzy math figures put together by some group that works for the campaign. That's not the number. Number two, John McCain and I have a proposal, jointly, for a commission that closes corporate giveaway loopholes. We've got $40 billion going to Bermuda. We've got all kinds of giveaways. We ought to be shutting those down. And third, credible: Ladies and gentlemen, in 1985, I was one of the first Democrats to move to balance the budget. I voted for the balanced budget in '93 and '97. We did it. We did it. And I was there. GIBSON: Thirty seconds. I'm sorry, thirty seconds, Mr. President. 21:58:57 BUSH: Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide. He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures. And so people are going to have to look at the record. Look at the record of the man running for the president. BUSH: They don't name him the most liberal in the United States Senate because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named him because of his votes. And it's reality. It's just not credible to say he's going to keep taxes down and balance budgets. GIBSON: Mr. President, the next question is for you, and it comes from James Hubb over here. James Hubb HUBB: Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply? 21:59:47 BUSH: Off-road diesel engines -- we have reached an agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90 percent. I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by 3 million. We've got an aggressive brown field program to refurbish inner-city sore spots to useful pieces of property. I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent. I have -- was fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the conservation reserve program to set aside millions of acres of land to help improve wildlife and the habitat. We proposed and passed a healthy forest bill which was essential to working with -- particularly in Western states -- to make sure that our forests were protected. BUSH: What happens in those forests, because of lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like tinderboxes. And over the last summers I've flown over there. And so, this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and at the same time make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest fires that have destroyed acres after acres in the West. We've got a good, common-sense policy. Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen over time is technology is going to change the way we live for the good for the environment. That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending $1 billion to come up with the technologies to do that. That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make sure we can use coal but in a clean way. I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land. BUSH: The quality of the air's cleaner since I've been the president. Fewer water complaints since I've been the president. More land being restored since I've been the president. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, minute and a half. 22:01:50 KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment. Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not. Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels around. Labels don't mean anything. I supported welfare reform. I led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was heresy. Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen. Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of the worst administrations in modern history. KERRY: The Clear Skies bill that he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of the sky, slap it onto something, like "No Child Left Behind" but you leave millions of children behind. Here they're leaving the skies and the environment behind. If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today, no change, the air would be cleaner that it is if you pass the Clear Skies act. We're going backwards. In fact, his environmental enforcement chief air-quality person at the EPA resigned in protest over what they're doing to what are calling the new source performance standards for air quality. They're going backwards on the definition for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality. They pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead, didn't even accept the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science. GIBSON: Mr. President? 22:03:29 BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyoto treaty, which I guess he's referring to, it would have cost America a lot of jobs. It's one of these deals where, in order to be popular in the halls of Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I think there's a better way to do it. BUSH: And I just told you the facts, sir. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been the president of the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and development, because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're accustomed to and being able to protect our environment better, the use of technologies. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 22:03:57 KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto, and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this president didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen, and we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You wonder, Nikki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the world. You just say: Hey, we don't agree with you. Goodbye. The president's done nothing to try to fix it. I will. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you. It involves jobs, which is a topic of the news today. GIBSON: And for the question, we're going to turn to Jane Barrow. Jane Barrow BARROW: Senator Kerry, how can the U.S. be competitive in manufacturing given -- in manufacturing, excuse me -- given the wage necessary and comfortably accepted for American workers to maintain the standard of living that they expect? 22:04:56 KERRY: Jane, there are a lot of ways to be competitive. And unfortunately again I regret this administration has not seized them and embraced them. Let me give you an example. There is a tax loophole right now. If you're a company in St. Louis working, trying to make jobs here, there is actually an incentive for you to go away. You get more money, you keep more of your taxes by going abroad. I'm going to shut that loophole, and I'm going to give the tax benefit to the companies that stay here in America to help make them more competitive. Secondly, we're going to create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America. Third, what's really hurting American business more than anything else is the cost of health care. Now, you didn't hear any plan from the president, because he doesn't have a plan to lower the cost of health care. KERRY: Five million Americans have lost their health care; 620,000 Missourians have no health care at all; 96,000 Missourians have lost their health care under President Bush. I have a plan to cover those folks. And it's a plan that lowers cost for everybody, covers all children. And the way I pay for it -- I'm not fiscally irresponsible -- is I roll back the tax cut this president so fiercely wants to defend, the one for him and me and Charlie. I think you ought to get the break. I want to lower your cost to health care. I want to fully fund education, No Child Left Behind, special-needs education. And that's how we're going to be more competitive, by making sure our kids are graduating from school and college. China and India are graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are. KERRY: We've got to create the products of the future. That's why I have a plan for energy independence within 10 years. And we're going to put our laboratories and our colleges and our universities to work. And we're going to get the great entrepreneurial spirit of this country, and we're going to free ourselves from this dependency on Mideast oil. That's how you create jobs and become competitive. GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half. 22:06:59 BUSH: Let me start with how to control the cost of health care: medical liability reform, for starters, which he's opposed. Secondly, allow small businesses to pool together so they can share risk and buy insurance at the same discounts big businesses get to do. Thirdly, spread what's called health savings accounts. It's good for small businesses, good for owners. You own your own account. You can save tax-free. You get a catastrophic plan to help you on it. This is different from saying, "OK, let me incent you to go on the government." He's talking about his plan to keep jobs here. You know he calls it an outsourcing to keep -- stop outsourcing. Robert Rubin looked at his plan and said it won't work. BUSH: The best way to keep jobs here in America is, one, have an energy plan. I proposed one to the Congress two years ago, encourages conservation, encourages technology to explore for environmentally friendly ways for coal -- to use coal and gas. It encourages the use of renewables like ethanol and biodiesel. It's stuck in the Senate. He and his running-mate didn't show up to vote when they could have got it going in the Senate. Less regulations if we want jobs here; legal reform if we want jobs here; and we've got to keep taxes low. Now, he says he's only going to tax the rich. Do you realize, 900,000 small businesses will be taxed under his plan because most small businesses are Subchapter S corps or limited partnerships, and they pay tax at the individual income tax level. And so when you're running up the taxes like that, you're taxing job creators, and that's not how you keep jobs here. GIBSON: Senator, I want to extend for a minute, you talk about tax cuts to stop outsourcing. But when you have IBM documents that I saw recently where you can hire a programmer for $12 in China, $56 an hour here, tax credits won't cut it. 22:08:47 KERRY: You can't stop all outsourcing, Charlie. I've never promised that. I'm not going to, because that would be pandering. You can't. But what you can do is create a fair playing field, and that's what I'm talking about. But let me just address what the president just said. Ladies and gentlemen, that's just not true what he said. The Wall Street Journal said 96 percent of small businesses are not affected at all by my plan. And you know why he gets that count? The president got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business. Dick Cheney's counted as a small business. That's how they do things. That's just not right. 22:09:21 BUSH: I own a timber company? (LAUGHTER) That's news to me. (LAUGHTER) Need some wood? (LAUGHTER) Most small businesses are Subchapter S corps. They just are. BUSH: I met Grant Milliron, Mansfield, Ohio. He's creating jobs. Most small businesses -- 70 percent of the new jobs in America are created by small businesses. Taxes are going up when you run up the top two brackets. It's a fact. GIBSON: President Bush, the next question is for you, and it comes from Rob Fowler, who I believe is over in this area. 22:10:22 Rob Fowler FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms? 22:10:26 BUSH: I appreciate that. I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. Every action being taken against terrorists requires court order, requires scrutiny. BUSH: As a matter of fact, the tools now given to the terrorist fighters are the same tools that we've been using against drug dealers and white-collar criminals. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. The Patriot Act is necessary, for example, because parts of the FBI couldn't talk to each other. The intelligence-gathering and the law-enforcement arms of the FBI just couldn't share intelligence under the old law. And that didn't make any sense. Our law enforcement must have every tool necessary to find and disrupt terrorists at home and abroad before they hurt us again. That's the task of the 21st century. And so, I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all. BUSH: And I know it's necessary. I can remember being in upstate New York talking to FBI agents that helped bust a Lackawanna cell up there. And they told me they could not have performed their duty, the duty we all expect of them, if they did not have the ability to communicate with each other under the Patriot Act. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 22:12:05 KERRY: Former Governor Racicot, as chairman of the Republican Party, said he thought that the Patriot Act has to be changed and fixed. Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, he is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said over his dead body before it gets... 22:12:19 END OF TAPE.

FTG OF THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT GEORGE W BUSH AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MASS) MODERATED BY ABC ANCHOR CHARLES GIBSON / DEBATE SWITCHED AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY. 20:43:30 NATS INT FTG OF DEBATE IN PROGRESS AS GIBSON ADDRESSES THE AUDIENCE. 20:48:33 FTG OF FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH AND KERRY'S WIFE, TERESA HEINZ KERRY ARE INTRODUCED. 21:01:50 GIBSON INTRODUCTIONS. 21:03:30 BUSH AND KERRY ARRIVE AND SHAKE HANDS. 21:03:59 GIBSON: Gentlemen, to the business at hand. The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me. 21:04:10 Cheryl Ann Otis OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too wishy-washy. Do you have a reply for them? KERRY: Yes, I certainly do. (LAUGHTER) 21:04:28 KERRY: But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington University for hosting us here this evening. Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening, sir. Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other. Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican Party thinks we ought to change a few things. KERRY: No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I support the goals. But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion. Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers. You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child Left Behind Act to help your education system here. So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it. So these are the differences. Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to lose jobs. I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy- washy. I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong. KERRY: I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000 or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:06:30 BUSH: Charlie, thank you, and thank our panelists. And, Senator, thank you. I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well. I can see why people at your workplace think he changes positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for it. And that sends a confusing signal to people. He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. BUSH: No, I can see why people think that he changes position quite often, because he does. You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions. I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics. He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty, created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income Americans. That's right at the middle class. BUSH: He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've got to be firm and consistent. GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next questioner. The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is Robin Dahle. 21:08:15 Robin Dahle DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed this knowledge to our terrorist enemies." Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable justification for invasion when this statement applies to so many other countries, including North Korea? 21:08:50 BUSH: Each situation is different, Robin. And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to hurt us. In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all. I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been brought to justice. That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to plan. BUSH: And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted to restart his weapons programs. We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a grave threat. I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why. But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more dangerous. BUSH: Thank you, sir. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:10:57 KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question. I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl, at the same time. The world is more dangerous today. The world is more dangerous today because the president didn't make the right judgments. Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He wants you to believe that because he can't come here and tell you that he's created new jobs for America. He's lost jobs. He can't come here and tell you that he's created health care for Americans because, what, we've got 5 million Americans who have lost their health care, 96,000 of them right here in Missouri. He can't come here and tell you that he's left no child behind because he didn't fund no child left behind. So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to believe that I can't be president. And he's trying to make you believe it because he wants you to think I change my mind. KERRY: Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat. Believed it in 1998 when Clinton was president. I wanted to give Clinton the power to use force if necessary. But I would have used that force wisely, I would have used that authority wisely, not rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. I would have brought our allies to our side. I would have fought to make certain our troops had everybody possible to help them win the mission. This president rushed to war, pushed our allies aside. And Iran now is more dangerous, and so is North Korea, with nuclear weapons. He took his eye off the ball, off of Osama bin Laden. GIBSON: Mr. President, I do want to follow up on this one, because there were several questions from the audience along this line. BUSH: (OFF-MIKE) GIBSON: Go ahead. Go ahead. (CROSSTALK) GIBSON: Well, I was going to have you do the rebuttal on it, but you go ahead. (LAUGHTER) You're up. 21:12:38 BUSH: You remember the last debate? BUSH: My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, "Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well." Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein. GIBSON: Senator? 21:13:15 KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective. And if we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq. And right now, Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war against terror. GIBSON: We're going to have another question now on the subject of Iraq. GIBSON: And I'm going to turn to Anthony Baldi with a question for Senator Kerry. Mr. Baldi? Anthony G Baldi BALDI: Senator Kerry, the U.S. is preparing a new Iraq government and will proceed to withdraw U.S. troops. Would you proceed with the same plans as President Bush? 21:14:08 KERRY: Anthony, I would not. I have laid out a different plan, because the president's plan is not working. You see that every night on television. There's chaos in Iraq. King Abdullah of Jordan said just yesterday or the day before you can't hold elections in Iraq with the chaos that's going on today. Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. KERRY: Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee. Now, I have to tell you, I would do something different. I would reach out to our allies in a way that this president hasn't. He pushed them away time and again, pushed them away at the U.N., pushed them away individually. Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the North Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed the possibility of a small training unit or having a total takeover of the training in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total training of Iraq? No. Were they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to bring all the allies together around that? No, because they've always wanted this to be an American effort. You know, they even had the Defense Department issue a memorandum saying, "Don't bother applying for assistance or for being part of the reconstruction if you weren't part of our original coalition." KERRY: Now, that's not a good way to build support and reduce the risk for our troops and make America safer. I'm going to get the training done for our troops. I'm going to get the training of Iraqis done faster. And I'm going to get our allies back to the table. 21:16:01 BUSH: Two days ago in the Oval Office, I met with the finance minister from Iraq. He came to see me. And he talked about how optimistic he was and the country was about heading toward elections. Think about it: They're going from tyranny to elections. He talked about the reconstruction efforts that are beginning to take hold. He talked about the fact that Iraqis love to be free. He said he was optimistic when he came here, then he turned on the TV and listened to the political rhetoric and all of a sudden he was pessimistic. Now, this is guy a who, along with others, has taken great risk for great freedom. And we need to stand with him. My opponent says he has a plan; it sounds familiar, because it's called the Bush plan. We're going to train troops, and we are. We'll have 125,000 trained by the end of December. We're spending about $7 billion. BUSH: He talks about a grand idea: Let's have a summit; we're going to solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to say to those people that show up at the summit? Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place. Risk your troops in a war you've called a mistake. Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time. I talk to Tony Blair all the time. I talk to Silvio Berlusconi. They're not going to follow an American president who says follow me into a mistake. Our plan is working. We're going to make elections. And Iraq is going to be free, and America will be better off for it. GIBSON: Do you want to follow up, Senator? 21:17:38 KERRY: Yes, sir, please. Ladies and gentlemen, the right war was Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan. That was the right place. And the right time was Tora Bora, when we had him cornered in the mountains. Now, everyone in the world knows that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force, not after excuse to get rid of the regime. Now we have to succeed. I've always said that. I have been consistent. Yes, we have to succeed, and I have a better plan to help us do it. 21:18:10 BUSH: First of all, we didn't find out he didn't have weapons until we got there, and my opponent thought he had weapons and told everybody he thought he had weapons. And secondly, it's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only Osama bin Laden. The war on terror is to make sure that these terrorist organizations do not end up with weapons of mass destruction. That's what the war on terror is about. Of course, we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already 75 percent of his people. And we're on the hunt for him. But this is a global conflict that requires firm resolve. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Nikki Washington. 21:18:51 Nikki Washington WASHINGTON: Thank you. Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation? 21:19:17 BUSH: No, I appreciate that. I -- listen, I -- we've got a great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of our country. I remember when Ronald Reagan was the president; he stood on principle. Somebody called that stubborn. He stood on principle standing up to the Soviet Union, and we won that conflict. Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe because of the decisions he made. BUSH: I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of our security. You know, I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat, because I felt like he had let the former president down, and I don't think he's the kind of person that can lead toward a Palestinian state. And people in Europe didn't like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing to do. I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they need leadership that's committed to a democracy and freedom, leadership that would be willing to reject terrorism. I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in front of a judge, an unaccounted judge. BUSH: I don't think we ought to join that. That was unpopular. And so, what I'm telling you is, is that sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think they're right. We'll continue to reach out. Listen, there is 30 nations involved in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan. People love America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing. You don't want to join the International Criminal Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:21:23 KERRY: Nikki, that's a question that's been raised by a lot of people around the country. Let me address it but also talk about the weapons the president just talked about, because every part of the president's answer just now promises you more of the same over the next four years. The president stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he was asked a question by somebody just like you, "Under what circumstances would you send people to war?" KERRY: And his answer was, "With a viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done." He didn't do that. He broke that promise. We didn't have enough forces. General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, told him he was going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what? They retired General Shinseki for telling him that. This president hasn't listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable. I came away convinced that, if we worked at it, if we were ready to work and letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us. But the president just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said, "Nope. Sorry, time for diplomacy is over. We're going." He rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. Ladies and gentleman, he gave you a speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:22:55 BUSH: I remember sitting in the White House looking at those generals, saying, "Do you have what you need in this war? Do you have what it takes?" I remember going down to the basement of the White House the day we committed our troops as last resort, looking at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground, asking them, "Do we have the right plan with the right troop level?" And they looked me in the eye and said, "Yes, sir, Mr. President." Of course, I listen to our generals. That's what a president does. A president sets the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy. GIBSON: Senator? 21:23:31 KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to say, "You're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the peace." The military's job is to win the war. KERRY: A president's job is to win the peace. The president did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nation. Didn't deliver the help. Didn't close off the borders. Didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry, and it comes from over here, from Randee Jacobs. You'll need a microphone. KERRY: Is it Randee? 21:24:02 Randee Brown Jacobs JACOBS: Yes, Randee. Iran sponsors terrorism and has missiles capable of hitting Israel and southern Europe. Iran will have nuclear weapons in two to three years time. In the event that U.N. sanctions don't stop this threat, what will you do as president? 21:24:29 KERRY: I don't think you can just rely on U.N. sanctions, Randee. But you're absolutely correct, it is a threat, it's a huge threat. And what's interesting is, it's a threat that has grown while the president has been preoccupied with Iraq, where there wasn't a threat. KERRY: If he'd let the inspectors do their job and go on, we wouldn't have 10 times the numbers of forces in Iraq that we have in Afghanistan chasing Osama bin Laden. Meanwhile, while Iran is moving toward nuclear weapons, some 37 tons of what they called yellow cake, the stuff they use to make enriched uranium, while they're doing that, North Korea has moved from one bomb maybe, maybe, to four to seven bombs. For two years, the president didn't even engage with North Korea, did nothing at all, while it was growing more dangerous, despite the warnings of former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who negotiated getting television cameras and inspectors into that reactor. We were safer before President Bush came to office. Now they have the bombs and we're less safe. So what do we do? We've got to join with the British and the French, with the Germans, who've been involved, in their initiative. We've got to lead the world now to crack down on proliferation as a whole. KERRY: But the president's been slow to do that, even in Russia. At his pace, it's going to take 13 years to reduce and get ahold of all the loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. I've proposed a plan that can capture it and contain it and clean it within four years. And the president is moving to the creation of our own bunker- busting nuclear weapon. It's very hard to get other countries to give up their weapons when you're busy developing a new one. I'm going to lead the world in the greatest counterproliferation effort. And if we have to get tough with Iran, believe me, we will get tough. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:26:29 BUSH: That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, "Let the inspectors do their job." It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. Secondly, of course we've been involved with Iran. BUSH: I fully understand the threat. And that's why we're doing what he suggested we do: Get the Brits, the Germans and the French to go make it very clear to the Iranians that if they expect to be a party to the world to give up their nuclear ambitions. We've been doing that. Let me talk about North Korea. It is naive and dangerous to take a policy that he suggested the other day, which is to have bilateral relations with North Korea. Remember, he's the person who's accusing me of not acting multilaterally. He now wants to take the six-party talks we have -- China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, Japan and the United States -- and undermine them by having bilateral talks. That's what President Clinton did. He had bilateral talks with the North Koreans. And guess what happened? BUSH: He didn't honor the agreement. He was enriching uranium. That is a bad policy. Of course, we're paying attention to these. It's a great question about Iran. That's why in my speech to the Congress I said: There's an "Axis of Evil," Iraq, Iran and North Korea, and we're paying attention to it. And we're making progress. GIBSON: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley. Mr. Farley? 21:28:04 Daniel Farley FARLEY: Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do you intend to maintain our military presence without reinstituting a draft? 21:28:04 BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets. An all-volunteer army is best suited to fight the new wars of the 21st century, which is to be specialized and to find these people as they hide around the world. BUSH: We don't need mass armies anymore. One of the things we've done is we've taken the -- we're beginning to transform our military. And by that I mean we're moving troops out of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent. In Europe, we have massed troops as if the Soviet Union existed and was going to invade into Europe, but those days are over with. And so we're moving troops out of Europe and replacing it with more effective equipment. So to answer your question is, we're withdrawing, not from the world, we're withdrawing manpower so they can be stationed here in America, so there's less rotation, so life is easier on their families and therefore more likely to be -- we'll be more likely to be able to keep people in the all-volunteer army. One of the more important things we're doing in this administration is transformation. There are some really interesting technologies. BUSH: For instance, we're flying unmanned vehicles that can send real-time messages back to stations in the United States. That saves manpower, and it saves equipment. It also means that we can target things easier and move more quickly, which means we need to be lighter and quicker and more facile and highly trained. Now, forget all this talk about a draft. We're not going to have a draft so long as I am the president. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:30:19 KERRY: Daniel, I don't support a draft. But let me tell you where the president's policies have put us. The president -- and this is one of the reasons why I am very proud in this race to have the support of General John Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Admiral William Crowe, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Tony McPeak, who ran the air war for the president's father and did a brilliant job, supporting me; General Wes Clark, who won the war in Kosovo, supporting me; because they all -- and General Baca, who was the head of the National Guard, supporting me. KERRY: Why? Because they understand that our military is overextended under the president. Our Guard and reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies, so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a back-door draft right now. And a lot of our military are underpaid. These are families that get hurt. It hurts the middle class. It hurts communities, because these are our first responders. And they're called up. And they're over there, not over here. Now, I'm going to add 40,000 active duty forces to the military, and I'm going to make people feel good about being safe in our military, and not overextended, because I'm going to run a foreign policy that actually does what President Reagan did, President Eisenhower did, and others. We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did. GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute... BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this. GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty... (CROSSTALK) BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world. GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft... 21:31:53 BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. There are 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone, to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say, you know, you're going alone. And people listen. They're sacrificing with us. GIBSON: Senator? 21:32:31 KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. KERRY: That's not a grand coalition. Ninety percent of the casualties are American. Ninety percent of the costs are coming out of your pockets. I could do a better job. My plan does a better job. And that's why I'll be a better commander in chief. GIBSON: The next question, Senator Kerry, is for you, and it comes from Ann Bronsing, who I believe is over in this area. 21:33:04 Ann Bronsing BRONSING: Senator Kerry, we have been fortunate that there have been no further terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. Why do you think this is? And if elected, what will you do to assure our safety? 21:33:35 KERRY: Thank you very much, Ann. I've asked in my security briefings why that is, and I can't go into all the answers, et cetera, but let me say this to you. This president and his administration have told you and all of us it's not a question of when, it's a question of -- excuse me -- not a question of if, it's a question of when. We've been told that. KERRY: The when I can't tell you. Between the World Trade Center bombing in, what was it, 1993 or so, and the next time was five years, seven years. These people wait. They'll plan. They plot. I agree with the president that we have to go after them and get them wherever they are. I just think I can do that far more effectively, because the most important weapon in doing that is intelligence. You've got to have the best intelligence in the world. And in order to have the best intelligence in the world to know who the terrorists are and where they are and what they're plotting, you've got to have the best cooperation you've ever had in the world. Now, to go back to your question, Nikki, we're not getting the best cooperation in the world today. We've got a whole bunch of countries that pay a price for dealing with the United States of America now. I'm going to change that. And I'm going to put in place a better homeland security effort. Look, 95 percent of our containers coming into this country are not inspected today. When you get on an airplane, your bag is X- rayed, but the cargo hold isn't X-rayed. Do you feel safer? KERRY: This president in the last debate said, "Well, that would be a big tax gap if we did that." Ladies and gentlemen, it's his tax plan. He chose a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans over getting that equipment out into the homeland as fast as possible. We have bridges and tunnels that aren't being secured, chemical plants, nuclear plants that aren't secured, hospitals that are overcrowded with their emergency rooms. If we had a disaster today, could they handle it? This president chose a tax cut over homeland security. Wrong choice. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:35:31 BUSH: That's an odd thing to say, since we've tripled the homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion. Listen, we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent's right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion. The best way to defend America in this world we live in is to stay on the offense. We got to be right 100 percent of the time here at home, and they got to be right once. And that's the reality. And there's a lot of good people working hard. We're doing the best we possibly can to share information. That's why the Patriot Act was important. BUSH: The Patriot Act is vital, by the way. It's a tool that law enforcement now uses to be able to talk between each other. My opponent says he hadn't changed his position on it. No, but he's for weakening it. I don't think my opponent has got the right view about the world to make us safe; I really don't. First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place. This war is a long, long war, and it requires steadfast determination and it requires a complete understanding that we not only chase down Al Qaida but we disrupt terrorist safe havens as well as people who could provide the terrorists with support. GIBSON: I want to extend for a minute, Senator. And I'm curious about something you said. You said, "It's not when, but if." You think it's inevitable because the sense of security is a very basic thing with everybody in this country worried about their kids. 21:37:22 KERRY: Well, the president and his experts have told America that it's not a question of if; it's a question of when. And I accept what the president has said. These terrorists are serious, they're deadly, and they know nothing except trying to kill. I understand that. That's why I will never stop at anything to hunt down and kill the terrorists. But you heard the president just say to you that we've added money. Folks, the test is not if you've added money; the test is that you've done everything possible to make America secure. He chose a tax cut for wealthy Americans over the things that I listed to you. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:37:55 BUSH: Well, we'll talk about the tax cut for middle class here in a minute. But yes, I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country. And all I can tell you is every day I know that there's people working overtime, doing the very best they can. And the reason I'm worried is because there's a vicious enemy that has an ideology of hate. And the way to defeat them long-term, by the way, is to spread freedom. BUSH: Liberty can change habits. And that's what's happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. GIBSON: Mr. President, we're going to turn to questions now on domestic policy. And we're going to start with health issues. And the first question is for President Bush and it's from John Horstman. 21:38:31 John Horstman HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost? 21:38:46 BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you. And that's why the FDA and that's why the surgeon general are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world. BUSH: And we've just got to make sure, before somebody thinks they're buying a product, that it works. And that's why we're doing what we're doing. Now, it may very well be here in December you'll hear me say, I think there's a safe way to do it. There are other ways to make sure drugs are cheaper. One is to speed up generic drugs to the marketplace, quicker. Pharmaceuticals were using loopholes to keep brand -- brand drugs in place, and generics are much less expensive than brand drugs. And we're doing just that. Another is to pass -- to get our seniors to sign up to these drug discount cards, and they're working. Wanda Blackmore I met here from Missouri, the first time she bought drugs with her drug discount card, she paid $1.14, I think it was, for about $10 worth of drugs. These cards make sense. BUSH: And, you know, in 2006 seniors are going to get prescription drug coverage for the first time in Medicare. Because I went to Washington to fix problems. Medicare -- the issue of Medicare used to be called "Mediscare." People didn't want to touch it for fear of getting hurt politically. I wanted to get something done. I think our seniors deserve a modern medical system. And in 2006, our seniors will get prescription drug coverage. Thank you for asking. GIBSON: Senator, a minute and a half. 21:40:40 KERRY: John, you heard the president just say that he thought he might try to be for it. Four years ago, right here in this forum, he was asked the same question: Can't people be able to import drugs from Canada? You know what he said? "I think that makes sense. I think that's a good idea" -- four years ago. Now, the president said, "I'm not blocking that." Ladies and gentlemen, the president just didn't level with you right now again. KERRY: He did block it, because we passed it in the United States Senate. We sent it over to the House, that you could import drugs. We took care of the safety issues. We're not talking about third-world drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles. And we're asking to be able to allow you to get them. The president blocked it. The president also took Medicare, which belongs to you. And he could have lowered the cost of Medicare and lowered your taxes and lowered the costs to seniors. You know what he did? He made it illegal, illegal for Medicare to do what the V.A. does, which is bulk purchase drugs so that you can lower the price and get them out to you lower. He put $139 billion of windfall profit into the pockets of the drug companies right out of your pockets. That's the difference between us. The president sides with the power companies, the oil companies, the drug companies. And I'm fighting to let you get those drugs from Canada, and I'm fighting to let Medicare survive. I'm fighting for the middle class. That is the difference. 21:42:16 BUSH: If they're safe, they're coming. I want to remind you that it wasn't just my administration that made the decision on safety. President Clinton did the same thing, because we have an obligation to protect you. Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished. I've been in Washington, D.C., three and a half years and led the Congress to reform Medicare so our seniors have got a modern health care system. That's what leadership is all about. 21:42:50 KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry. And this comes from Norma-Jean Laurent. LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters? 21:43:48 KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform. We both believe that, as lawyers -- I'm a lawyer, too. And I believe that we will be able to get a fix that has alluded everybody else because we know how to do it. KERRY: It's in my health-care proposal. Go to johnkerry.com. You can pull it off of the Internet. And you'll find a tort reform plan. Now, ladies and gentlemen, important to understand, the president and his friends try to make a big deal out of it. Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it, particularly for OGBYNs (sic) and for brain surgeons and others? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan. I have a plan to lower the cost of health care for you. I have a plan to cover all children. I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and congressmen give themselves. I have a plan that's going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. KERRY: And I have a plan that will take the catastrophic cases out of the system, off your backs, pay for it out of a federal fund, which lowers the premiums for everybody in America, makes American business more competitive and makes health care more affordable. Now, all of that can happen, but I have to ask you to do one thing: Join me in rolling back the president's unaffordable tax cut for people earning more than $200,000 a year. That's all. Ninety-eight percent of America, I'm giving you a tax cut and I'm giving you health care. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:45:51 BUSH: Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work. The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion in new spending, and he says he going to tax the rich to close the tax gap. He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his programs. That's just reality. BUSH: And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There's a bill on the floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and voted for if he's so much for it. Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year. And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it. It's the largest increase in federal government health care ever. And it fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won from the National Journal. That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, we got several questions along this line, and I'm just curious if you'd go further on what you talked about with tort reform. Would you be favoring capping awards on pain and suffering? Would you limit attorney's fees? KERRY: A follow-up... GIBSON: Yes. A follow-up on this for... 21:47:21 KERRY: Yes, I think we should look at the punitive and we should have some limitations. But look, what's really important, Charlie, is the president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, "compassionate conservative," what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history. Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2. I mean, seriously -- labels don't mean anything. What means something is: Do you have a plan? And I want to talk about my plan some more -- I hope we can. GIBSON: We'll get to that in just a minute. Thirty seconds, President Bush. 21:48:11 BUSH: You're right, what does matter is a plan. He said he's for -- you're now for capping punitive damages? BUSH: That's odd. You should have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then. Medical liability issues are a problem, a significant problem. He's been in the United States Senate for 20 years and he hasn't addressed it. We passed it out of the House of Representatives. Guess where it's stuck? It's stuck in the Senate, because the trial lawyers won't act on it. And he put a trial lawyer on the ticket. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Matthew O'Brien. 21:48:47 Matthew O'Brien O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent. 21:49:13 BUSH: Right, thank you for that. We have a deficit. We have a deficit because this country went into a recession. You might remember the stock market started to decline dramatically six months before I came to office, and then the bubble of the 1990s popped. And that cost us revenue. That cost us revenue. Secondly, we're at war. And I'm going to spend what it takes to win the war, more than just $120 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've got to pay our troops more. We have. We've increased money for ammunition and weapons and pay and homeland security. I just told this lady over here we spent -- went from $10 billion to $30 billion to protect the homeland. I think we have an obligation to spend that kind of money. And plus, we cut taxes for everybody. Everybody got tax relief, so that they get out of the recession. I think if you raise taxes during a recession, you head to depression. I come from the school of thought that says when people have more money in their pocket during economic times, it increases demand or investment. Small businesses begin to grow, and jobs are added. BUSH: We found out today that over the past 13 months, we've added 1.9 million new jobs in the last 13 months. I proposed a plan, detailed budget, that shows us cutting the deficit in half by five years. And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control. Like you, I'm concerned about the deficit. But I am not going to shortchange our troops in harm's way. And I'm not going to run up taxes, which will cost this economy jobs. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:51:11 KERRY: Let me begin by saying that my health-care plan is not what the president described. It is not a government takeover. You have choice. Choose your doctor, choose your plan. The government has nothing to do with it. KERRY: In fact, it doesn't ask you to do anything -- if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. If you like your high premiums, you keep them. That's the way we leave it. Now with respect to the deficit, the president was handed a $5.6 trillion surplus, ladies and gentlemen. That's where he was when he came into office. We now have a $2.6 trillion deficit. This is the biggest turnaround in the history of the country. He's the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, others, knew how to lead. They knew how to ask the American people for the right things. One percent of America, the highest one percent of income earners in America, got $89 billion of tax cut last year. One percent of America got more than the 80 percent of America that earned from $100,000 down. KERRY: The president thinks it's more important to fight for that top 1 percent than to fight for fiscal responsibility and to fight for you. I want to put money in your pocket. I am -- I have a proposal for a tax cut for all people earning less than the $200,000. The only people affected by my plan are the top income earners of America. GIBSON: I both -- I heard you both say -- I have heard you both say during the campaign, I just heard you say it, that you're going to cut the deficit by a half in four years. But I didn't hear one thing in the last three and a half minutes that would indicate how either one of you do that. 21:52:56 BUSH: Well, look at the budget. One is make sure Congress doesn't overspend. But let me talk back about where we've been. The stock market was declining six months prior to my arrival. BUSH: It was the largest stock market correction -- one of the largest in history, which foretold a recession. Because we cut taxes on everybody -- remember, we ran up the child credit by $1,000, we reduced the marriage penalty, we created a 10 percent bracket, everybody who pays taxes got relief -- the recession was one of the shortest in our nation's history. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 21:53:38 KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question will be for you, and it comes from James Varner, who I believe is in this section. Mr. Varner? You need a microphone. James Varner VARNER: Thank you. 21:54:38 Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language, give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than $200,000 a year during your first term? KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera. Yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut. And here's my tax cut. I raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids. I have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college. And I lower the cost of health care in the way that I described to you. Every part of my program I've shown how I'm going to pay for it. And I've gotten good people, like former Secretary of the Treasury Bob Rubin, for instance, who showed how to balance budgets and give you a good economy, to help me crunch these numbers and make them work. KERRY: I've even scaled back some of my favorite programs already, like the child-care program I wanted to fund and the national service program, because the president's deficit keeps growing and I've said as a pledge, "I'm going to cut the deficit in half in four years." Now, I'm going to restore what we did in the 1990s, ladies and gentlemen: pay as you go. We're going to do it like you do it. The president broke the pay-as-you-go rule. Somebody here asked the question about, "Why haven't you vetoed something?" It's a good question. If you care about it, why don't you veto it? I think John McCain called the energy bill the "No Lobbyist Left Behind" bill. I mean, you've got to stand up and fight somewhere, folks. I'm pledging I will not raise taxes; I'm giving a tax cut to the people earning less than $200,000 a year. Now, for the people earning more than $200,000 a year, you're going to see a rollback to the level we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money. KERRY: And looking around here, at this group here, I suspect there are only three people here who are going to be affected: the president, me, and, Charlie, I'm sorry, you too. (LAUGHTER) GIBSON: Mr. President, 90 seconds. 21:56:38 BUSH: He's just not credible when he talks about being fiscally conservative. He's just not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate, he voted to break the caps -- the spending caps -- over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative, all of a sudden. It's just not credible. You cannot believe it. And of course he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And you say: Well, how are you going to pay for it? He says, well, he's going to raise the taxes on the rich -- that's what he said -- the top two brackets. That raises, he says $800 billion; we say $600 billion. BUSH: We've got battling green eye shades. Somewhere in between those numbers -- and so there's a difference, what he's promised and what he can raise. Now, either he's going to break all these wonderful promises he's told you about or he's going to raise taxes. And I suspect, given his record, he's going to raise taxes. Is my time up yet? GIBSON: No, you can keep going. (LAUGHTER) BUSH: Good. You looked at me like my clock was up. I think that the way to grow this economy is to keep taxes low, is have an energy plan, is to have litigation reform. As I told you, we've just got a report that said over the past 13 months, we've created 1.9 million new jobs. And so the fundamental question of this campaign is: Who's going to keep the economy growing so people can work? That's the fundamental question. GIBSON: I'm going to come back one more time to how these numbers add up and how you can cut that deficit in half in four years, given what you've both said. 21:58:13 KERRY: Well, first of all, the president's figures of $2.2 trillion just aren't accurate. Those are the fuzzy math figures put together by some group that works for the campaign. That's not the number. Number two, John McCain and I have a proposal, jointly, for a commission that closes corporate giveaway loopholes. We've got $40 billion going to Bermuda. We've got all kinds of giveaways. We ought to be shutting those down. And third, credible: Ladies and gentlemen, in 1985, I was one of the first Democrats to move to balance the budget. I voted for the balanced budget in '93 and '97. We did it. We did it. And I was there. GIBSON: Thirty seconds. I'm sorry, thirty seconds, Mr. President. 21:58:57 BUSH: Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide. He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures. And so people are going to have to look at the record. Look at the record of the man running for the president. BUSH: They don't name him the most liberal in the United States Senate because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named him because of his votes. And it's reality. It's just not credible to say he's going to keep taxes down and balance budgets. GIBSON: Mr. President, the next question is for you, and it comes from James Hubb over here. James Hubb HUBB: Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply? 21:59:47 BUSH: Off-road diesel engines -- we have reached an agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90 percent. I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by 3 million. We've got an aggressive brown field program to refurbish inner-city sore spots to useful pieces of property. I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent. I have -- was fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the conservation reserve program to set aside millions of acres of land to help improve wildlife and the habitat. We proposed and passed a healthy forest bill which was essential to working with -- particularly in Western states -- to make sure that our forests were protected. BUSH: What happens in those forests, because of lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like tinderboxes. And over the last summers I've flown over there. And so, this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and at the same time make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest fires that have destroyed acres after acres in the West. We've got a good, common-sense policy. Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen over time is technology is going to change the way we live for the good for the environment. That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending $1 billion to come up with the technologies to do that. That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make sure we can use coal but in a clean way. I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land. BUSH: The quality of the air's cleaner since I've been the president. Fewer water complaints since I've been the president. More land being restored since I've been the president. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, minute and a half. 22:01:50 KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment. Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not. Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels around. Labels don't mean anything. I supported welfare reform. I led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was heresy. Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen. Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of the worst administrations in modern history. KERRY: The Clear Skies bill that he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of the sky, slap it onto something, like "No Child Left Behind" but you leave millions of children behind. Here they're leaving the skies and the environment behind. If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today, no change, the air would be cleaner that it is if you pass the Clear Skies act. We're going backwards. In fact, his environmental enforcement chief air-quality person at the EPA resigned in protest over what they're doing to what are calling the new source performance standards for air quality. They're going backwards on the definition for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality. They pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead, didn't even accept the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science. GIBSON: Mr. President? 22:03:29 BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyoto treaty, which I guess he's referring to, it would have cost America a lot of jobs. It's one of these deals where, in order to be popular in the halls of Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I think there's a better way to do it. BUSH: And I just told you the facts, sir. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been the president of the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and development, because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're accustomed to and being able to protect our environment better, the use of technologies. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 22:03:57 KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto, and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this president didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen, and we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You wonder, Nikki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the world. You just say: Hey, we don't agree with you. Goodbye. The president's done nothing to try to fix it. I will. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you. It involves jobs, which is a topic of the news today. GIBSON: And for the question, we're going to turn to Jane Barrow. Jane Barrow BARROW: Senator Kerry, how can the U.S. be competitive in manufacturing given -- in manufacturing, excuse me -- given the wage necessary and comfortably accepted for American workers to maintain the standard of living that they expect? 22:04:56 KERRY: Jane, there are a lot of ways to be competitive. And unfortunately again I regret this administration has not seized them and embraced them. Let me give you an example. There is a tax loophole right now. If you're a company in St. Louis working, trying to make jobs here, there is actually an incentive for you to go away. You get more money, you keep more of your taxes by going abroad. I'm going to shut that loophole, and I'm going to give the tax benefit to the companies that stay here in America to help make them more competitive. Secondly, we're going to create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America. Third, what's really hurting American business more than anything else is the cost of health care. Now, you didn't hear any plan from the president, because he doesn't have a plan to lower the cost of health care. KERRY: Five million Americans have lost their health care; 620,000 Missourians have no health care at all; 96,000 Missourians have lost their health care under President Bush. I have a plan to cover those folks. And it's a plan that lowers cost for everybody, covers all children. And the way I pay for it -- I'm not fiscally irresponsible -- is I roll back the tax cut this president so fiercely wants to defend, the one for him and me and Charlie. I think you ought to get the break. I want to lower your cost to health care. I want to fully fund education, No Child Left Behind, special-needs education. And that's how we're going to be more competitive, by making sure our kids are graduating from school and college. China and India are graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are. KERRY: We've got to create the products of the future. That's why I have a plan for energy independence within 10 years. And we're going to put our laboratories and our colleges and our universities to work. And we're going to get the great entrepreneurial spirit of this country, and we're going to free ourselves from this dependency on Mideast oil. That's how you create jobs and become competitive. GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half. 22:06:59 BUSH: Let me start with how to control the cost of health care: medical liability reform, for starters, which he's opposed. Secondly, allow small businesses to pool together so they can share risk and buy insurance at the same discounts big businesses get to do. Thirdly, spread what's called health savings accounts. It's good for small businesses, good for owners. You own your own account. You can save tax-free. You get a catastrophic plan to help you on it. This is different from saying, "OK, let me incent you to go on the government." He's talking about his plan to keep jobs here. You know he calls it an outsourcing to keep -- stop outsourcing. Robert Rubin looked at his plan and said it won't work. BUSH: The best way to keep jobs here in America is, one, have an energy plan. I proposed one to the Congress two years ago, encourages conservation, encourages technology to explore for environmentally friendly ways for coal -- to use coal and gas. It encourages the use of renewables like ethanol and biodiesel. It's stuck in the Senate. He and his running-mate didn't show up to vote when they could have got it going in the Senate. Less regulations if we want jobs here; legal reform if we want jobs here; and we've got to keep taxes low. Now, he says he's only going to tax the rich. Do you realize, 900,000 small businesses will be taxed under his plan because most small businesses are Subchapter S corps or limited partnerships, and they pay tax at the individual income tax level. And so when you're running up the taxes like that, you're taxing job creators, and that's not how you keep jobs here. GIBSON: Senator, I want to extend for a minute, you talk about tax cuts to stop outsourcing. But when you have IBM documents that I saw recently where you can hire a programmer for $12 in China, $56 an hour here, tax credits won't cut it. 22:08:47 KERRY: You can't stop all outsourcing, Charlie. I've never promised that. I'm not going to, because that would be pandering. You can't. But what you can do is create a fair playing field, and that's what I'm talking about. But let me just address what the president just said. Ladies and gentlemen, that's just not true what he said. The Wall Street Journal said 96 percent of small businesses are not affected at all by my plan. And you know why he gets that count? The president got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business. Dick Cheney's counted as a small business. That's how they do things. That's just not right. 22:09:21 BUSH: I own a timber company? (LAUGHTER) That's news to me. (LAUGHTER) Need some wood? (LAUGHTER) Most small businesses are Subchapter S corps. They just are. BUSH: I met Grant Milliron, Mansfield, Ohio. He's creating jobs. Most small businesses -- 70 percent of the new jobs in America are created by small businesses. Taxes are going up when you run up the top two brackets. It's a fact. GIBSON: President Bush, the next question is for you, and it comes from Rob Fowler, who I believe is over in this area. 22:10:22 Rob Fowler FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms? 22:10:26 BUSH: I appreciate that. I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. Every action being taken against terrorists requires court order, requires scrutiny. BUSH: As a matter of fact, the tools now given to the terrorist fighters are the same tools that we've been using against drug dealers and white-collar criminals. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. The Patriot Act is necessary, for example, because parts of the FBI couldn't talk to each other. The intelligence-gathering and the law-enforcement arms of the FBI just couldn't share intelligence under the old law. And that didn't make any sense. Our law enforcement must have every tool necessary to find and disrupt terrorists at home and abroad before they hurt us again. That's the task of the 21st century. And so, I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all. BUSH: And I know it's necessary. I can remember being in upstate New York talking to FBI agents that helped bust a Lackawanna cell up there. And they told me they could not have performed their duty, the duty we all expect of them, if they did not have the ability to communicate with each other under the Patriot Act. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 22:12:05 KERRY: Former Governor Racicot, as chairman of the Republican Party, said he thought that the Patriot Act has to be changed and fixed. Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, he is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said over his dead body before it gets... 22:12:19 END OF TAPE.

FTG OF THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT GEORGE W BUSH AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MASS) MODERATED BY ABC ANCHOR CHARLES GIBSON / DEBATE SWITCHED AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY. 20:43:30 NATS INT FTG OF DEBATE IN PROGRESS AS GIBSON ADDRESSES THE AUDIENCE. 20:48:33 FTG OF FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH AND KERRY'S WIFE, TERESA HEINZ KERRY ARE INTRODUCED. 21:01:50 GIBSON INTRODUCTIONS. 21:03:30 BUSH AND KERRY ARRIVE AND SHAKE HANDS. 21:03:59 GIBSON: Gentlemen, to the business at hand. The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me. 21:04:10 Cheryl Ann Otis OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too wishy-washy. Do you have a reply for them? KERRY: Yes, I certainly do. (LAUGHTER) 21:04:28 KERRY: But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington University for hosting us here this evening. Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening, sir. Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other. Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican Party thinks we ought to change a few things. KERRY: No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I support the goals. But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion. Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers. You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child Left Behind Act to help your education system here. So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it. So these are the differences. Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to lose jobs. I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy- washy. I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong. KERRY: I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000 or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:06:30 BUSH: Charlie, thank you, and thank our panelists. And, Senator, thank you. I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well. I can see why people at your workplace think he changes positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for it. And that sends a confusing signal to people. He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. BUSH: No, I can see why people think that he changes position quite often, because he does. You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions. I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics. He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty, created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income Americans. That's right at the middle class. BUSH: He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've got to be firm and consistent. GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next questioner. The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is Robin Dahle. 21:08:15 Robin Dahle DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed this knowledge to our terrorist enemies." Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable justification for invasion when this statement applies to so many other countries, including North Korea? 21:08:50 BUSH: Each situation is different, Robin. And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to hurt us. In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all. I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been brought to justice. That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to plan. BUSH: And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted to restart his weapons programs. We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a grave threat. I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why. But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more dangerous. BUSH: Thank you, sir. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:10:57 KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question. I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl, at the same time. The world is more dangerous today. The world is more dangerous today because the president didn't make the right judgments. Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He wants you to believe that because he can't come here and tell you that he's created new jobs for America. He's lost jobs. He can't come here and tell you that he's created health care for Americans because, what, we've got 5 million Americans who have lost their health care, 96,000 of them right here in Missouri. He can't come here and tell you that he's left no child behind because he didn't fund no child left behind. So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to believe that I can't be president. And he's trying to make you believe it because he wants you to think I change my mind. KERRY: Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat. Believed it in 1998 when Clinton was president. I wanted to give Clinton the power to use force if necessary. But I would have used that force wisely, I would have used that authority wisely, not rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. I would have brought our allies to our side. I would have fought to make certain our troops had everybody possible to help them win the mission. This president rushed to war, pushed our allies aside. And Iran now is more dangerous, and so is North Korea, with nuclear weapons. He took his eye off the ball, off of Osama bin Laden. GIBSON: Mr. President, I do want to follow up on this one, because there were several questions from the audience along this line. BUSH: (OFF-MIKE) GIBSON: Go ahead. Go ahead. (CROSSTALK) GIBSON: Well, I was going to have you do the rebuttal on it, but you go ahead. (LAUGHTER) You're up. 21:12:38 BUSH: You remember the last debate? BUSH: My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, "Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well." Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein. GIBSON: Senator? 21:13:15 KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective. And if we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq. And right now, Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war against terror. GIBSON: We're going to have another question now on the subject of Iraq. GIBSON: And I'm going to turn to Anthony Baldi with a question for Senator Kerry. Mr. Baldi? Anthony G Baldi BALDI: Senator Kerry, the U.S. is preparing a new Iraq government and will proceed to withdraw U.S. troops. Would you proceed with the same plans as President Bush? 21:14:08 KERRY: Anthony, I would not. I have laid out a different plan, because the president's plan is not working. You see that every night on television. There's chaos in Iraq. King Abdullah of Jordan said just yesterday or the day before you can't hold elections in Iraq with the chaos that's going on today. Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. KERRY: Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee. Now, I have to tell you, I would do something different. I would reach out to our allies in a way that this president hasn't. He pushed them away time and again, pushed them away at the U.N., pushed them away individually. Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the North Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed the possibility of a small training unit or having a total takeover of the training in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total training of Iraq? No. Were they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to bring all the allies together around that? No, because they've always wanted this to be an American effort. You know, they even had the Defense Department issue a memorandum saying, "Don't bother applying for assistance or for being part of the reconstruction if you weren't part of our original coalition." KERRY: Now, that's not a good way to build support and reduce the risk for our troops and make America safer. I'm going to get the training done for our troops. I'm going to get the training of Iraqis done faster. And I'm going to get our allies back to the table. 21:16:01 BUSH: Two days ago in the Oval Office, I met with the finance minister from Iraq. He came to see me. And he talked about how optimistic he was and the country was about heading toward elections. Think about it: They're going from tyranny to elections. He talked about the reconstruction efforts that are beginning to take hold. He talked about the fact that Iraqis love to be free. He said he was optimistic when he came here, then he turned on the TV and listened to the political rhetoric and all of a sudden he was pessimistic. Now, this is guy a who, along with others, has taken great risk for great freedom. And we need to stand with him. My opponent says he has a plan; it sounds familiar, because it's called the Bush plan. We're going to train troops, and we are. We'll have 125,000 trained by the end of December. We're spending about $7 billion. BUSH: He talks about a grand idea: Let's have a summit; we're going to solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to say to those people that show up at the summit? Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place. Risk your troops in a war you've called a mistake. Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time. I talk to Tony Blair all the time. I talk to Silvio Berlusconi. They're not going to follow an American president who says follow me into a mistake. Our plan is working. We're going to make elections. And Iraq is going to be free, and America will be better off for it. GIBSON: Do you want to follow up, Senator? 21:17:38 KERRY: Yes, sir, please. Ladies and gentlemen, the right war was Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan. That was the right place. And the right time was Tora Bora, when we had him cornered in the mountains. Now, everyone in the world knows that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force, not after excuse to get rid of the regime. Now we have to succeed. I've always said that. I have been consistent. Yes, we have to succeed, and I have a better plan to help us do it. 21:18:10 BUSH: First of all, we didn't find out he didn't have weapons until we got there, and my opponent thought he had weapons and told everybody he thought he had weapons. And secondly, it's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only Osama bin Laden. The war on terror is to make sure that these terrorist organizations do not end up with weapons of mass destruction. That's what the war on terror is about. Of course, we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already 75 percent of his people. And we're on the hunt for him. But this is a global conflict that requires firm resolve. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Nikki Washington. 21:18:51 Nikki Washington WASHINGTON: Thank you. Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation? 21:19:17 BUSH: No, I appreciate that. I -- listen, I -- we've got a great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of our country. I remember when Ronald Reagan was the president; he stood on principle. Somebody called that stubborn. He stood on principle standing up to the Soviet Union, and we won that conflict. Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe because of the decisions he made. BUSH: I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of our security. You know, I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat, because I felt like he had let the former president down, and I don't think he's the kind of person that can lead toward a Palestinian state. And people in Europe didn't like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing to do. I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they need leadership that's committed to a democracy and freedom, leadership that would be willing to reject terrorism. I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in front of a judge, an unaccounted judge. BUSH: I don't think we ought to join that. That was unpopular. And so, what I'm telling you is, is that sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think they're right. We'll continue to reach out. Listen, there is 30 nations involved in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan. People love America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing. You don't want to join the International Criminal Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:21:23 KERRY: Nikki, that's a question that's been raised by a lot of people around the country. Let me address it but also talk about the weapons the president just talked about, because every part of the president's answer just now promises you more of the same over the next four years. The president stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he was asked a question by somebody just like you, "Under what circumstances would you send people to war?" KERRY: And his answer was, "With a viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done." He didn't do that. He broke that promise. We didn't have enough forces. General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, told him he was going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what? They retired General Shinseki for telling him that. This president hasn't listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable. I came away convinced that, if we worked at it, if we were ready to work and letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us. But the president just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said, "Nope. Sorry, time for diplomacy is over. We're going." He rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. Ladies and gentleman, he gave you a speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:22:55 BUSH: I remember sitting in the White House looking at those generals, saying, "Do you have what you need in this war? Do you have what it takes?" I remember going down to the basement of the White House the day we committed our troops as last resort, looking at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground, asking them, "Do we have the right plan with the right troop level?" And they looked me in the eye and said, "Yes, sir, Mr. President." Of course, I listen to our generals. That's what a president does. A president sets the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy. GIBSON: Senator? 21:23:31 KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to say, "You're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the peace." The military's job is to win the war. KERRY: A president's job is to win the peace. The president did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nation. Didn't deliver the help. Didn't close off the borders. Didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry, and it comes from over here, from Randee Jacobs. You'll need a microphone. KERRY: Is it Randee? 21:24:02 Randee Brown Jacobs JACOBS: Yes, Randee. Iran sponsors terrorism and has missiles capable of hitting Israel and southern Europe. Iran will have nuclear weapons in two to three years time. In the event that U.N. sanctions don't stop this threat, what will you do as president? 21:24:29 KERRY: I don't think you can just rely on U.N. sanctions, Randee. But you're absolutely correct, it is a threat, it's a huge threat. And what's interesting is, it's a threat that has grown while the president has been preoccupied with Iraq, where there wasn't a threat. KERRY: If he'd let the inspectors do their job and go on, we wouldn't have 10 times the numbers of forces in Iraq that we have in Afghanistan chasing Osama bin Laden. Meanwhile, while Iran is moving toward nuclear weapons, some 37 tons of what they called yellow cake, the stuff they use to make enriched uranium, while they're doing that, North Korea has moved from one bomb maybe, maybe, to four to seven bombs. For two years, the president didn't even engage with North Korea, did nothing at all, while it was growing more dangerous, despite the warnings of former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who negotiated getting television cameras and inspectors into that reactor. We were safer before President Bush came to office. Now they have the bombs and we're less safe. So what do we do? We've got to join with the British and the French, with the Germans, who've been involved, in their initiative. We've got to lead the world now to crack down on proliferation as a whole. KERRY: But the president's been slow to do that, even in Russia. At his pace, it's going to take 13 years to reduce and get ahold of all the loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. I've proposed a plan that can capture it and contain it and clean it within four years. And the president is moving to the creation of our own bunker- busting nuclear weapon. It's very hard to get other countries to give up their weapons when you're busy developing a new one. I'm going to lead the world in the greatest counterproliferation effort. And if we have to get tough with Iran, believe me, we will get tough. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:26:29 BUSH: That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, "Let the inspectors do their job." It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. Secondly, of course we've been involved with Iran. BUSH: I fully understand the threat. And that's why we're doing what he suggested we do: Get the Brits, the Germans and the French to go make it very clear to the Iranians that if they expect to be a party to the world to give up their nuclear ambitions. We've been doing that. Let me talk about North Korea. It is naive and dangerous to take a policy that he suggested the other day, which is to have bilateral relations with North Korea. Remember, he's the person who's accusing me of not acting multilaterally. He now wants to take the six-party talks we have -- China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, Japan and the United States -- and undermine them by having bilateral talks. That's what President Clinton did. He had bilateral talks with the North Koreans. And guess what happened? BUSH: He didn't honor the agreement. He was enriching uranium. That is a bad policy. Of course, we're paying attention to these. It's a great question about Iran. That's why in my speech to the Congress I said: There's an "Axis of Evil," Iraq, Iran and North Korea, and we're paying attention to it. And we're making progress. GIBSON: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley. Mr. Farley? 21:28:04 Daniel Farley FARLEY: Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do you intend to maintain our military presence without reinstituting a draft? 21:28:04 BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets. An all-volunteer army is best suited to fight the new wars of the 21st century, which is to be specialized and to find these people as they hide around the world. BUSH: We don't need mass armies anymore. One of the things we've done is we've taken the -- we're beginning to transform our military. And by that I mean we're moving troops out of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent. In Europe, we have massed troops as if the Soviet Union existed and was going to invade into Europe, but those days are over with. And so we're moving troops out of Europe and replacing it with more effective equipment. So to answer your question is, we're withdrawing, not from the world, we're withdrawing manpower so they can be stationed here in America, so there's less rotation, so life is easier on their families and therefore more likely to be -- we'll be more likely to be able to keep people in the all-volunteer army. One of the more important things we're doing in this administration is transformation. There are some really interesting technologies. BUSH: For instance, we're flying unmanned vehicles that can send real-time messages back to stations in the United States. That saves manpower, and it saves equipment. It also means that we can target things easier and move more quickly, which means we need to be lighter and quicker and more facile and highly trained. Now, forget all this talk about a draft. We're not going to have a draft so long as I am the president. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:30:19 KERRY: Daniel, I don't support a draft. But let me tell you where the president's policies have put us. The president -- and this is one of the reasons why I am very proud in this race to have the support of General John Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Admiral William Crowe, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Tony McPeak, who ran the air war for the president's father and did a brilliant job, supporting me; General Wes Clark, who won the war in Kosovo, supporting me; because they all -- and General Baca, who was the head of the National Guard, supporting me. KERRY: Why? Because they understand that our military is overextended under the president. Our Guard and reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies, so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a back-door draft right now. And a lot of our military are underpaid. These are families that get hurt. It hurts the middle class. It hurts communities, because these are our first responders. And they're called up. And they're over there, not over here. Now, I'm going to add 40,000 active duty forces to the military, and I'm going to make people feel good about being safe in our military, and not overextended, because I'm going to run a foreign policy that actually does what President Reagan did, President Eisenhower did, and others. We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did. GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute... BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this. GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty... (CROSSTALK) BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world. GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft... 21:31:53 BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. There are 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone, to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say, you know, you're going alone. And people listen. They're sacrificing with us. GIBSON: Senator? 21:32:31 KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. KERRY: That's not a grand coalition. Ninety percent of the casualties are American. Ninety percent of the costs are coming out of your pockets. I could do a better job. My plan does a better job. And that's why I'll be a better commander in chief. GIBSON: The next question, Senator Kerry, is for you, and it comes from Ann Bronsing, who I believe is over in this area. 21:33:04 Ann Bronsing BRONSING: Senator Kerry, we have been fortunate that there have been no further terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. Why do you think this is? And if elected, what will you do to assure our safety? 21:33:35 KERRY: Thank you very much, Ann. I've asked in my security briefings why that is, and I can't go into all the answers, et cetera, but let me say this to you. This president and his administration have told you and all of us it's not a question of when, it's a question of -- excuse me -- not a question of if, it's a question of when. We've been told that. KERRY: The when I can't tell you. Between the World Trade Center bombing in, what was it, 1993 or so, and the next time was five years, seven years. These people wait. They'll plan. They plot. I agree with the president that we have to go after them and get them wherever they are. I just think I can do that far more effectively, because the most important weapon in doing that is intelligence. You've got to have the best intelligence in the world. And in order to have the best intelligence in the world to know who the terrorists are and where they are and what they're plotting, you've got to have the best cooperation you've ever had in the world. Now, to go back to your question, Nikki, we're not getting the best cooperation in the world today. We've got a whole bunch of countries that pay a price for dealing with the United States of America now. I'm going to change that. And I'm going to put in place a better homeland security effort. Look, 95 percent of our containers coming into this country are not inspected today. When you get on an airplane, your bag is X- rayed, but the cargo hold isn't X-rayed. Do you feel safer? KERRY: This president in the last debate said, "Well, that would be a big tax gap if we did that." Ladies and gentlemen, it's his tax plan. He chose a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans over getting that equipment out into the homeland as fast as possible. We have bridges and tunnels that aren't being secured, chemical plants, nuclear plants that aren't secured, hospitals that are overcrowded with their emergency rooms. If we had a disaster today, could they handle it? This president chose a tax cut over homeland security. Wrong choice. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:35:31 BUSH: That's an odd thing to say, since we've tripled the homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion. Listen, we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent's right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion. The best way to defend America in this world we live in is to stay on the offense. We got to be right 100 percent of the time here at home, and they got to be right once. And that's the reality. And there's a lot of good people working hard. We're doing the best we possibly can to share information. That's why the Patriot Act was important. BUSH: The Patriot Act is vital, by the way. It's a tool that law enforcement now uses to be able to talk between each other. My opponent says he hadn't changed his position on it. No, but he's for weakening it. I don't think my opponent has got the right view about the world to make us safe; I really don't. First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place. This war is a long, long war, and it requires steadfast determination and it requires a complete understanding that we not only chase down Al Qaida but we disrupt terrorist safe havens as well as people who could provide the terrorists with support. GIBSON: I want to extend for a minute, Senator. And I'm curious about something you said. You said, "It's not when, but if." You think it's inevitable because the sense of security is a very basic thing with everybody in this country worried about their kids. 21:37:22 KERRY: Well, the president and his experts have told America that it's not a question of if; it's a question of when. And I accept what the president has said. These terrorists are serious, they're deadly, and they know nothing except trying to kill. I understand that. That's why I will never stop at anything to hunt down and kill the terrorists. But you heard the president just say to you that we've added money. Folks, the test is not if you've added money; the test is that you've done everything possible to make America secure. He chose a tax cut for wealthy Americans over the things that I listed to you. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:37:55 BUSH: Well, we'll talk about the tax cut for middle class here in a minute. But yes, I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country. And all I can tell you is every day I know that there's people working overtime, doing the very best they can. And the reason I'm worried is because there's a vicious enemy that has an ideology of hate. And the way to defeat them long-term, by the way, is to spread freedom. BUSH: Liberty can change habits. And that's what's happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. GIBSON: Mr. President, we're going to turn to questions now on domestic policy. And we're going to start with health issues. And the first question is for President Bush and it's from John Horstman. 21:38:31 John Horstman HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost? 21:38:46 BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you. And that's why the FDA and that's why the surgeon general are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world. BUSH: And we've just got to make sure, before somebody thinks they're buying a product, that it works. And that's why we're doing what we're doing. Now, it may very well be here in December you'll hear me say, I think there's a safe way to do it. There are other ways to make sure drugs are cheaper. One is to speed up generic drugs to the marketplace, quicker. Pharmaceuticals were using loopholes to keep brand -- brand drugs in place, and generics are much less expensive than brand drugs. And we're doing just that. Another is to pass -- to get our seniors to sign up to these drug discount cards, and they're working. Wanda Blackmore I met here from Missouri, the first time she bought drugs with her drug discount card, she paid $1.14, I think it was, for about $10 worth of drugs. These cards make sense. BUSH: And, you know, in 2006 seniors are going to get prescription drug coverage for the first time in Medicare. Because I went to Washington to fix problems. Medicare -- the issue of Medicare used to be called "Mediscare." People didn't want to touch it for fear of getting hurt politically. I wanted to get something done. I think our seniors deserve a modern medical system. And in 2006, our seniors will get prescription drug coverage. Thank you for asking. GIBSON: Senator, a minute and a half. 21:40:40 KERRY: John, you heard the president just say that he thought he might try to be for it. Four years ago, right here in this forum, he was asked the same question: Can't people be able to import drugs from Canada? You know what he said? "I think that makes sense. I think that's a good idea" -- four years ago. Now, the president said, "I'm not blocking that." Ladies and gentlemen, the president just didn't level with you right now again. KERRY: He did block it, because we passed it in the United States Senate. We sent it over to the House, that you could import drugs. We took care of the safety issues. We're not talking about third-world drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles. And we're asking to be able to allow you to get them. The president blocked it. The president also took Medicare, which belongs to you. And he could have lowered the cost of Medicare and lowered your taxes and lowered the costs to seniors. You know what he did? He made it illegal, illegal for Medicare to do what the V.A. does, which is bulk purchase drugs so that you can lower the price and get them out to you lower. He put $139 billion of windfall profit into the pockets of the drug companies right out of your pockets. That's the difference between us. The president sides with the power companies, the oil companies, the drug companies. And I'm fighting to let you get those drugs from Canada, and I'm fighting to let Medicare survive. I'm fighting for the middle class. That is the difference. 21:42:16 BUSH: If they're safe, they're coming. I want to remind you that it wasn't just my administration that made the decision on safety. President Clinton did the same thing, because we have an obligation to protect you. Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished. I've been in Washington, D.C., three and a half years and led the Congress to reform Medicare so our seniors have got a modern health care system. That's what leadership is all about. 21:42:50 KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry. And this comes from Norma-Jean Laurent. LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters? 21:43:48 KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform. We both believe that, as lawyers -- I'm a lawyer, too. And I believe that we will be able to get a fix that has alluded everybody else because we know how to do it. KERRY: It's in my health-care proposal. Go to johnkerry.com. You can pull it off of the Internet. And you'll find a tort reform plan. Now, ladies and gentlemen, important to understand, the president and his friends try to make a big deal out of it. Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it, particularly for OGBYNs (sic) and for brain surgeons and others? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan. I have a plan to lower the cost of health care for you. I have a plan to cover all children. I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and congressmen give themselves. I have a plan that's going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. KERRY: And I have a plan that will take the catastrophic cases out of the system, off your backs, pay for it out of a federal fund, which lowers the premiums for everybody in America, makes American business more competitive and makes health care more affordable. Now, all of that can happen, but I have to ask you to do one thing: Join me in rolling back the president's unaffordable tax cut for people earning more than $200,000 a year. That's all. Ninety-eight percent of America, I'm giving you a tax cut and I'm giving you health care. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:45:51 BUSH: Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work. The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion in new spending, and he says he going to tax the rich to close the tax gap. He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his programs. That's just reality. BUSH: And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There's a bill on the floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and voted for if he's so much for it. Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year. And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it. It's the largest increase in federal government health care ever. And it fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won from the National Journal. That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, we got several questions along this line, and I'm just curious if you'd go further on what you talked about with tort reform. Would you be favoring capping awards on pain and suffering? Would you limit attorney's fees? KERRY: A follow-up... GIBSON: Yes. A follow-up on this for... 21:47:21 KERRY: Yes, I think we should look at the punitive and we should have some limitations. But look, what's really important, Charlie, is the president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, "compassionate conservative," what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history. Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2. I mean, seriously -- labels don't mean anything. What means something is: Do you have a plan? And I want to talk about my plan some more -- I hope we can. GIBSON: We'll get to that in just a minute. Thirty seconds, President Bush. 21:48:11 BUSH: You're right, what does matter is a plan. He said he's for -- you're now for capping punitive damages? BUSH: That's odd. You should have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then. Medical liability issues are a problem, a significant problem. He's been in the United States Senate for 20 years and he hasn't addressed it. We passed it out of the House of Representatives. Guess where it's stuck? It's stuck in the Senate, because the trial lawyers won't act on it. And he put a trial lawyer on the ticket. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Matthew O'Brien. 21:48:47 Matthew O'Brien O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent. 21:49:13 BUSH: Right, thank you for that. We have a deficit. We have a deficit because this country went into a recession. You might remember the stock market started to decline dramatically six months before I came to office, and then the bubble of the 1990s popped. And that cost us revenue. That cost us revenue. Secondly, we're at war. And I'm going to spend what it takes to win the war, more than just $120 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've got to pay our troops more. We have. We've increased money for ammunition and weapons and pay and homeland security. I just told this lady over here we spent -- went from $10 billion to $30 billion to protect the homeland. I think we have an obligation to spend that kind of money. And plus, we cut taxes for everybody. Everybody got tax relief, so that they get out of the recession. I think if you raise taxes during a recession, you head to depression. I come from the school of thought that says when people have more money in their pocket during economic times, it increases demand or investment. Small businesses begin to grow, and jobs are added. BUSH: We found out today that over the past 13 months, we've added 1.9 million new jobs in the last 13 months. I proposed a plan, detailed budget, that shows us cutting the deficit in half by five years. And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control. Like you, I'm concerned about the deficit. But I am not going to shortchange our troops in harm's way. And I'm not going to run up taxes, which will cost this economy jobs. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:51:11 KERRY: Let me begin by saying that my health-care plan is not what the president described. It is not a government takeover. You have choice. Choose your doctor, choose your plan. The government has nothing to do with it. KERRY: In fact, it doesn't ask you to do anything -- if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. If you like your high premiums, you keep them. That's the way we leave it. Now with respect to the deficit, the president was handed a $5.6 trillion surplus, ladies and gentlemen. That's where he was when he came into office. We now have a $2.6 trillion deficit. This is the biggest turnaround in the history of the country. He's the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, others, knew how to lead. They knew how to ask the American people for the right things. One percent of America, the highest one percent of income earners in America, got $89 billion of tax cut last year. One percent of America got more than the 80 percent of America that earned from $100,000 down. KERRY: The president thinks it's more important to fight for that top 1 percent than to fight for fiscal responsibility and to fight for you. I want to put money in your pocket. I am -- I have a proposal for a tax cut for all people earning less than the $200,000. The only people affected by my plan are the top income earners of America. GIBSON: I both -- I heard you both say -- I have heard you both say during the campaign, I just heard you say it, that you're going to cut the deficit by a half in four years. But I didn't hear one thing in the last three and a half minutes that would indicate how either one of you do that. 21:52:56 BUSH: Well, look at the budget. One is make sure Congress doesn't overspend. But let me talk back about where we've been. The stock market was declining six months prior to my arrival. BUSH: It was the largest stock market correction -- one of the largest in history, which foretold a recession. Because we cut taxes on everybody -- remember, we ran up the child credit by $1,000, we reduced the marriage penalty, we created a 10 percent bracket, everybody who pays taxes got relief -- the recession was one of the shortest in our nation's history. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 21:53:38 KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question will be for you, and it comes from James Varner, who I believe is in this section. Mr. Varner? You need a microphone. James Varner VARNER: Thank you. 21:54:38 Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language, give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than $200,000 a year during your first term? KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera. Yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut. And here's my tax cut. I raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids. I have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college. And I lower the cost of health care in the way that I described to you. Every part of my program I've shown how I'm going to pay for it. And I've gotten good people, like former Secretary of the Treasury Bob Rubin, for instance, who showed how to balance budgets and give you a good economy, to help me crunch these numbers and make them work. KERRY: I've even scaled back some of my favorite programs already, like the child-care program I wanted to fund and the national service program, because the president's deficit keeps growing and I've said as a pledge, "I'm going to cut the deficit in half in four years." Now, I'm going to restore what we did in the 1990s, ladies and gentlemen: pay as you go. We're going to do it like you do it. The president broke the pay-as-you-go rule. Somebody here asked the question about, "Why haven't you vetoed something?" It's a good question. If you care about it, why don't you veto it? I think John McCain called the energy bill the "No Lobbyist Left Behind" bill. I mean, you've got to stand up and fight somewhere, folks. I'm pledging I will not raise taxes; I'm giving a tax cut to the people earning less than $200,000 a year. Now, for the people earning more than $200,000 a year, you're going to see a rollback to the level we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money. KERRY: And looking around here, at this group here, I suspect there are only three people here who are going to be affected: the president, me, and, Charlie, I'm sorry, you too. (LAUGHTER) GIBSON: Mr. President, 90 seconds. 21:56:38 BUSH: He's just not credible when he talks about being fiscally conservative. He's just not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate, he voted to break the caps -- the spending caps -- over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative, all of a sudden. It's just not credible. You cannot believe it. And of course he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And you say: Well, how are you going to pay for it? He says, well, he's going to raise the taxes on the rich -- that's what he said -- the top two brackets. That raises, he says $800 billion; we say $600 billion. BUSH: We've got battling green eye shades. Somewhere in between those numbers -- and so there's a difference, what he's promised and what he can raise. Now, either he's going to break all these wonderful promises he's told you about or he's going to raise taxes. And I suspect, given his record, he's going to raise taxes. Is my time up yet? GIBSON: No, you can keep going. (LAUGHTER) BUSH: Good. You looked at me like my clock was up. I think that the way to grow this economy is to keep taxes low, is have an energy plan, is to have litigation reform. As I told you, we've just got a report that said over the past 13 months, we've created 1.9 million new jobs. And so the fundamental question of this campaign is: Who's going to keep the economy growing so people can work? That's the fundamental question. GIBSON: I'm going to come back one more time to how these numbers add up and how you can cut that deficit in half in four years, given what you've both said. 21:58:13 KERRY: Well, first of all, the president's figures of $2.2 trillion just aren't accurate. Those are the fuzzy math figures put together by some group that works for the campaign. That's not the number. Number two, John McCain and I have a proposal, jointly, for a commission that closes corporate giveaway loopholes. We've got $40 billion going to Bermuda. We've got all kinds of giveaways. We ought to be shutting those down. And third, credible: Ladies and gentlemen, in 1985, I was one of the first Democrats to move to balance the budget. I voted for the balanced budget in '93 and '97. We did it. We did it. And I was there. GIBSON: Thirty seconds. I'm sorry, thirty seconds, Mr. President. 21:58:57 BUSH: Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide. He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures. And so people are going to have to look at the record. Look at the record of the man running for the president. BUSH: They don't name him the most liberal in the United States Senate because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named him because of his votes. And it's reality. It's just not credible to say he's going to keep taxes down and balance budgets. GIBSON: Mr. President, the next question is for you, and it comes from James Hubb over here. James Hubb HUBB: Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply? 21:59:47 BUSH: Off-road diesel engines -- we have reached an agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90 percent. I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by 3 million. We've got an aggressive brown field program to refurbish inner-city sore spots to useful pieces of property. I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent. I have -- was fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the conservation reserve program to set aside millions of acres of land to help improve wildlife and the habitat. We proposed and passed a healthy forest bill which was essential to working with -- particularly in Western states -- to make sure that our forests were protected. BUSH: What happens in those forests, because of lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like tinderboxes. And over the last summers I've flown over there. And so, this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and at the same time make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest fires that have destroyed acres after acres in the West. We've got a good, common-sense policy. Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen over time is technology is going to change the way we live for the good for the environment. That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending $1 billion to come up with the technologies to do that. That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make sure we can use coal but in a clean way. I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land. BUSH: The quality of the air's cleaner since I've been the president. Fewer water complaints since I've been the president. More land being restored since I've been the president. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, minute and a half. 22:01:50 KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment. Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not. Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels around. Labels don't mean anything. I supported welfare reform. I led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was heresy. Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen. Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of the worst administrations in modern history. KERRY: The Clear Skies bill that he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of the sky, slap it onto something, like "No Child Left Behind" but you leave millions of children behind. Here they're leaving the skies and the environment behind. If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today, no change, the air would be cleaner that it is if you pass the Clear Skies act. We're going backwards. In fact, his environmental enforcement chief air-quality person at the EPA resigned in protest over what they're doing to what are calling the new source performance standards for air quality. They're going backwards on the definition for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality. They pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead, didn't even accept the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science. GIBSON: Mr. President? 22:03:29 BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyoto treaty, which I guess he's referring to, it would have cost America a lot of jobs. It's one of these deals where, in order to be popular in the halls of Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I think there's a better way to do it. BUSH: And I just told you the facts, sir. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been the president of the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and development, because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're accustomed to and being able to protect our environment better, the use of technologies. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 22:03:57 KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto, and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this president didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen, and we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You wonder, Nikki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the world. You just say: Hey, we don't agree with you. Goodbye. The president's done nothing to try to fix it. I will. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you. It involves jobs, which is a topic of the news today. GIBSON: And for the question, we're going to turn to Jane Barrow. Jane Barrow BARROW: Senator Kerry, how can the U.S. be competitive in manufacturing given -- in manufacturing, excuse me -- given the wage necessary and comfortably accepted for American workers to maintain the standard of living that they expect? 22:04:56 KERRY: Jane, there are a lot of ways to be competitive. And unfortunately again I regret this administration has not seized them and embraced them. Let me give you an example. There is a tax loophole right now. If you're a company in St. Louis working, trying to make jobs here, there is actually an incentive for you to go away. You get more money, you keep more of your taxes by going abroad. I'm going to shut that loophole, and I'm going to give the tax benefit to the companies that stay here in America to help make them more competitive. Secondly, we're going to create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America. Third, what's really hurting American business more than anything else is the cost of health care. Now, you didn't hear any plan from the president, because he doesn't have a plan to lower the cost of health care. KERRY: Five million Americans have lost their health care; 620,000 Missourians have no health care at all; 96,000 Missourians have lost their health care under President Bush. I have a plan to cover those folks. And it's a plan that lowers cost for everybody, covers all children. And the way I pay for it -- I'm not fiscally irresponsible -- is I roll back the tax cut this president so fiercely wants to defend, the one for him and me and Charlie. I think you ought to get the break. I want to lower your cost to health care. I want to fully fund education, No Child Left Behind, special-needs education. And that's how we're going to be more competitive, by making sure our kids are graduating from school and college. China and India are graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are. KERRY: We've got to create the products of the future. That's why I have a plan for energy independence within 10 years. And we're going to put our laboratories and our colleges and our universities to work. And we're going to get the great entrepreneurial spirit of this country, and we're going to free ourselves from this dependency on Mideast oil. That's how you create jobs and become competitive. GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half. 22:06:59 BUSH: Let me start with how to control the cost of health care: medical liability reform, for starters, which he's opposed. Secondly, allow small businesses to pool together so they can share risk and buy insurance at the same discounts big businesses get to do. Thirdly, spread what's called health savings accounts. It's good for small businesses, good for owners. You own your own account. You can save tax-free. You get a catastrophic plan to help you on it. This is different from saying, "OK, let me incent you to go on the government." He's talking about his plan to keep jobs here. You know he calls it an outsourcing to keep -- stop outsourcing. Robert Rubin looked at his plan and said it won't work. BUSH: The best way to keep jobs here in America is, one, have an energy plan. I proposed one to the Congress two years ago, encourages conservation, encourages technology to explore for environmentally friendly ways for coal -- to use coal and gas. It encourages the use of renewables like ethanol and biodiesel. It's stuck in the Senate. He and his running-mate didn't show up to vote when they could have got it going in the Senate. Less regulations if we want jobs here; legal reform if we want jobs here; and we've got to keep taxes low. Now, he says he's only going to tax the rich. Do you realize, 900,000 small businesses will be taxed under his plan because most small businesses are Subchapter S corps or limited partnerships, and they pay tax at the individual income tax level. And so when you're running up the taxes like that, you're taxing job creators, and that's not how you keep jobs here. GIBSON: Senator, I want to extend for a minute, you talk about tax cuts to stop outsourcing. But when you have IBM documents that I saw recently where you can hire a programmer for $12 in China, $56 an hour here, tax credits won't cut it. 22:08:47 KERRY: You can't stop all outsourcing, Charlie. I've never promised that. I'm not going to, because that would be pandering. You can't. But what you can do is create a fair playing field, and that's what I'm talking about. But let me just address what the president just said. Ladies and gentlemen, that's just not true what he said. The Wall Street Journal said 96 percent of small businesses are not affected at all by my plan. And you know why he gets that count? The president got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business. Dick Cheney's counted as a small business. That's how they do things. That's just not right. 22:09:21 BUSH: I own a timber company? (LAUGHTER) That's news to me. (LAUGHTER) Need some wood? (LAUGHTER) Most small businesses are Subchapter S corps. They just are. BUSH: I met Grant Milliron, Mansfield, Ohio. He's creating jobs. Most small businesses -- 70 percent of the new jobs in America are created by small businesses. Taxes are going up when you run up the top two brackets. It's a fact. GIBSON: President Bush, the next question is for you, and it comes from Rob Fowler, who I believe is over in this area. 22:10:22 Rob Fowler FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms? 22:10:26 BUSH: I appreciate that. I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. Every action being taken against terrorists requires court order, requires scrutiny. BUSH: As a matter of fact, the tools now given to the terrorist fighters are the same tools that we've been using against drug dealers and white-collar criminals. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. The Patriot Act is necessary, for example, because parts of the FBI couldn't talk to each other. The intelligence-gathering and the law-enforcement arms of the FBI just couldn't share intelligence under the old law. And that didn't make any sense. Our law enforcement must have every tool necessary to find and disrupt terrorists at home and abroad before they hurt us again. That's the task of the 21st century. And so, I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all. BUSH: And I know it's necessary. I can remember being in upstate New York talking to FBI agents that helped bust a Lackawanna cell up there. And they told me they could not have performed their duty, the duty we all expect of them, if they did not have the ability to communicate with each other under the Patriot Act. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 22:12:05 KERRY: Former Governor Racicot, as chairman of the Republican Party, said he thought that the Patriot Act has to be changed and fixed. Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, he is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said over his dead body before it gets... 22:12:19 END OF TAPE.

FTG OF THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT GEORGE W BUSH AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MASS) MODERATED BY ABC ANCHOR CHARLES GIBSON / DEBATE SWITCHED AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY. 20:43:30 NATS INT FTG OF DEBATE IN PROGRESS AS GIBSON ADDRESSES THE AUDIENCE. 20:48:33 FTG OF FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH AND KERRY'S WIFE, TERESA HEINZ KERRY ARE INTRODUCED. 21:01:50 GIBSON INTRODUCTIONS. 21:03:30 BUSH AND KERRY ARRIVE AND SHAKE HANDS. 21:03:59 GIBSON: Gentlemen, to the business at hand. The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me. 21:04:10 Cheryl Ann Otis OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too wishy-washy. Do you have a reply for them? KERRY: Yes, I certainly do. (LAUGHTER) 21:04:28 KERRY: But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington University for hosting us here this evening. Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening, sir. Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that or the other. Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican Party thinks we ought to change a few things. KERRY: No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I support the goals. But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion. Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers. You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child Left Behind Act to help your education system here. So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it. So these are the differences. Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to lose jobs. I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy- washy. I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong. KERRY: I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000 or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:06:30 BUSH: Charlie, thank you, and thank our panelists. And, Senator, thank you. I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well. I can see why people at your workplace think he changes positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for it. And that sends a confusing signal to people. He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. BUSH: No, I can see why people think that he changes position quite often, because he does. You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions. I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics. He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty, created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income Americans. That's right at the middle class. BUSH: He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've got to be firm and consistent. GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next questioner. The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is Robin Dahle. 21:08:15 Robin Dahle DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed this knowledge to our terrorist enemies." Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable justification for invasion when this statement applies to so many other countries, including North Korea? 21:08:50 BUSH: Each situation is different, Robin. And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to hurt us. In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all. I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been brought to justice. That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to plan. BUSH: And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted to restart his weapons programs. We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a grave threat. I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why. But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more dangerous. BUSH: Thank you, sir. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:10:57 KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question. I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl, at the same time. The world is more dangerous today. The world is more dangerous today because the president didn't make the right judgments. Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He wants you to believe that because he can't come here and tell you that he's created new jobs for America. He's lost jobs. He can't come here and tell you that he's created health care for Americans because, what, we've got 5 million Americans who have lost their health care, 96,000 of them right here in Missouri. He can't come here and tell you that he's left no child behind because he didn't fund no child left behind. So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to believe that I can't be president. And he's trying to make you believe it because he wants you to think I change my mind. KERRY: Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat. Believed it in 1998 when Clinton was president. I wanted to give Clinton the power to use force if necessary. But I would have used that force wisely, I would have used that authority wisely, not rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. I would have brought our allies to our side. I would have fought to make certain our troops had everybody possible to help them win the mission. This president rushed to war, pushed our allies aside. And Iran now is more dangerous, and so is North Korea, with nuclear weapons. He took his eye off the ball, off of Osama bin Laden. GIBSON: Mr. President, I do want to follow up on this one, because there were several questions from the audience along this line. BUSH: (OFF-MIKE) GIBSON: Go ahead. Go ahead. (CROSSTALK) GIBSON: Well, I was going to have you do the rebuttal on it, but you go ahead. (LAUGHTER) You're up. 21:12:38 BUSH: You remember the last debate? BUSH: My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, "Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well." Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein. GIBSON: Senator? 21:13:15 KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective. And if we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq. And right now, Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war against terror. GIBSON: We're going to have another question now on the subject of Iraq. GIBSON: And I'm going to turn to Anthony Baldi with a question for Senator Kerry. Mr. Baldi? Anthony G Baldi BALDI: Senator Kerry, the U.S. is preparing a new Iraq government and will proceed to withdraw U.S. troops. Would you proceed with the same plans as President Bush? 21:14:08 KERRY: Anthony, I would not. I have laid out a different plan, because the president's plan is not working. You see that every night on television. There's chaos in Iraq. King Abdullah of Jordan said just yesterday or the day before you can't hold elections in Iraq with the chaos that's going on today. Senator Richard Lugar, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has been incompetent. Those are the Republican chairman's words. KERRY: Senator Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing; it's in the zone of dangerous. Those are the words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations Committee. Now, I have to tell you, I would do something different. I would reach out to our allies in a way that this president hasn't. He pushed them away time and again, pushed them away at the U.N., pushed them away individually. Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the North Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed the possibility of a small training unit or having a total takeover of the training in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total training of Iraq? No. Were they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to bring all the allies together around that? No, because they've always wanted this to be an American effort. You know, they even had the Defense Department issue a memorandum saying, "Don't bother applying for assistance or for being part of the reconstruction if you weren't part of our original coalition." KERRY: Now, that's not a good way to build support and reduce the risk for our troops and make America safer. I'm going to get the training done for our troops. I'm going to get the training of Iraqis done faster. And I'm going to get our allies back to the table. 21:16:01 BUSH: Two days ago in the Oval Office, I met with the finance minister from Iraq. He came to see me. And he talked about how optimistic he was and the country was about heading toward elections. Think about it: They're going from tyranny to elections. He talked about the reconstruction efforts that are beginning to take hold. He talked about the fact that Iraqis love to be free. He said he was optimistic when he came here, then he turned on the TV and listened to the political rhetoric and all of a sudden he was pessimistic. Now, this is guy a who, along with others, has taken great risk for great freedom. And we need to stand with him. My opponent says he has a plan; it sounds familiar, because it's called the Bush plan. We're going to train troops, and we are. We'll have 125,000 trained by the end of December. We're spending about $7 billion. BUSH: He talks about a grand idea: Let's have a summit; we're going to solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to say to those people that show up at the summit? Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place. Risk your troops in a war you've called a mistake. Nobody is going to follow somebody who doesn't believe we can succeed and with somebody who says that war where we are is a mistake. I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time. I talk to Tony Blair all the time. I talk to Silvio Berlusconi. They're not going to follow an American president who says follow me into a mistake. Our plan is working. We're going to make elections. And Iraq is going to be free, and America will be better off for it. GIBSON: Do you want to follow up, Senator? 21:17:38 KERRY: Yes, sir, please. Ladies and gentlemen, the right war was Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan. That was the right place. And the right time was Tora Bora, when we had him cornered in the mountains. Now, everyone in the world knows that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force, not after excuse to get rid of the regime. Now we have to succeed. I've always said that. I have been consistent. Yes, we have to succeed, and I have a better plan to help us do it. 21:18:10 BUSH: First of all, we didn't find out he didn't have weapons until we got there, and my opponent thought he had weapons and told everybody he thought he had weapons. And secondly, it's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only Osama bin Laden. The war on terror is to make sure that these terrorist organizations do not end up with weapons of mass destruction. That's what the war on terror is about. Of course, we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already 75 percent of his people. And we're on the hunt for him. But this is a global conflict that requires firm resolve. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Nikki Washington. 21:18:51 Nikki Washington WASHINGTON: Thank you. Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on. What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation? 21:19:17 BUSH: No, I appreciate that. I -- listen, I -- we've got a great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of our country. I remember when Ronald Reagan was the president; he stood on principle. Somebody called that stubborn. He stood on principle standing up to the Soviet Union, and we won that conflict. Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe because of the decisions he made. BUSH: I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of our security. You know, I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat, because I felt like he had let the former president down, and I don't think he's the kind of person that can lead toward a Palestinian state. And people in Europe didn't like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing to do. I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they need leadership that's committed to a democracy and freedom, leadership that would be willing to reject terrorism. I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in front of a judge, an unaccounted judge. BUSH: I don't think we ought to join that. That was unpopular. And so, what I'm telling you is, is that sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think they're right. We'll continue to reach out. Listen, there is 30 nations involved in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan. People love America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing. You don't want to join the International Criminal Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:21:23 KERRY: Nikki, that's a question that's been raised by a lot of people around the country. Let me address it but also talk about the weapons the president just talked about, because every part of the president's answer just now promises you more of the same over the next four years. The president stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he was asked a question by somebody just like you, "Under what circumstances would you send people to war?" KERRY: And his answer was, "With a viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done." He didn't do that. He broke that promise. We didn't have enough forces. General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, told him he was going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what? They retired General Shinseki for telling him that. This president hasn't listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable. I came away convinced that, if we worked at it, if we were ready to work and letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us. But the president just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said, "Nope. Sorry, time for diplomacy is over. We're going." He rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. Ladies and gentleman, he gave you a speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:22:55 BUSH: I remember sitting in the White House looking at those generals, saying, "Do you have what you need in this war? Do you have what it takes?" I remember going down to the basement of the White House the day we committed our troops as last resort, looking at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground, asking them, "Do we have the right plan with the right troop level?" And they looked me in the eye and said, "Yes, sir, Mr. President." Of course, I listen to our generals. That's what a president does. A president sets the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy. GIBSON: Senator? 21:23:31 KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to say, "You're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the peace." The military's job is to win the war. KERRY: A president's job is to win the peace. The president did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nation. Didn't deliver the help. Didn't close off the borders. Didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry, and it comes from over here, from Randee Jacobs. You'll need a microphone. KERRY: Is it Randee? 21:24:02 Randee Brown Jacobs JACOBS: Yes, Randee. Iran sponsors terrorism and has missiles capable of hitting Israel and southern Europe. Iran will have nuclear weapons in two to three years time. In the event that U.N. sanctions don't stop this threat, what will you do as president? 21:24:29 KERRY: I don't think you can just rely on U.N. sanctions, Randee. But you're absolutely correct, it is a threat, it's a huge threat. And what's interesting is, it's a threat that has grown while the president has been preoccupied with Iraq, where there wasn't a threat. KERRY: If he'd let the inspectors do their job and go on, we wouldn't have 10 times the numbers of forces in Iraq that we have in Afghanistan chasing Osama bin Laden. Meanwhile, while Iran is moving toward nuclear weapons, some 37 tons of what they called yellow cake, the stuff they use to make enriched uranium, while they're doing that, North Korea has moved from one bomb maybe, maybe, to four to seven bombs. For two years, the president didn't even engage with North Korea, did nothing at all, while it was growing more dangerous, despite the warnings of former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who negotiated getting television cameras and inspectors into that reactor. We were safer before President Bush came to office. Now they have the bombs and we're less safe. So what do we do? We've got to join with the British and the French, with the Germans, who've been involved, in their initiative. We've got to lead the world now to crack down on proliferation as a whole. KERRY: But the president's been slow to do that, even in Russia. At his pace, it's going to take 13 years to reduce and get ahold of all the loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. I've proposed a plan that can capture it and contain it and clean it within four years. And the president is moving to the creation of our own bunker- busting nuclear weapon. It's very hard to get other countries to give up their weapons when you're busy developing a new one. I'm going to lead the world in the greatest counterproliferation effort. And if we have to get tough with Iran, believe me, we will get tough. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:26:29 BUSH: That answer almost made me want to scowl. He keeps talking about, "Let the inspectors do their job." It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors. Secondly, of course we've been involved with Iran. BUSH: I fully understand the threat. And that's why we're doing what he suggested we do: Get the Brits, the Germans and the French to go make it very clear to the Iranians that if they expect to be a party to the world to give up their nuclear ambitions. We've been doing that. Let me talk about North Korea. It is naive and dangerous to take a policy that he suggested the other day, which is to have bilateral relations with North Korea. Remember, he's the person who's accusing me of not acting multilaterally. He now wants to take the six-party talks we have -- China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, Japan and the United States -- and undermine them by having bilateral talks. That's what President Clinton did. He had bilateral talks with the North Koreans. And guess what happened? BUSH: He didn't honor the agreement. He was enriching uranium. That is a bad policy. Of course, we're paying attention to these. It's a great question about Iran. That's why in my speech to the Congress I said: There's an "Axis of Evil," Iraq, Iran and North Korea, and we're paying attention to it. And we're making progress. GIBSON: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley. Mr. Farley? 21:28:04 Daniel Farley FARLEY: Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do you intend to maintain our military presence without reinstituting a draft? 21:28:04 BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets. An all-volunteer army is best suited to fight the new wars of the 21st century, which is to be specialized and to find these people as they hide around the world. BUSH: We don't need mass armies anymore. One of the things we've done is we've taken the -- we're beginning to transform our military. And by that I mean we're moving troops out of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent. In Europe, we have massed troops as if the Soviet Union existed and was going to invade into Europe, but those days are over with. And so we're moving troops out of Europe and replacing it with more effective equipment. So to answer your question is, we're withdrawing, not from the world, we're withdrawing manpower so they can be stationed here in America, so there's less rotation, so life is easier on their families and therefore more likely to be -- we'll be more likely to be able to keep people in the all-volunteer army. One of the more important things we're doing in this administration is transformation. There are some really interesting technologies. BUSH: For instance, we're flying unmanned vehicles that can send real-time messages back to stations in the United States. That saves manpower, and it saves equipment. It also means that we can target things easier and move more quickly, which means we need to be lighter and quicker and more facile and highly trained. Now, forget all this talk about a draft. We're not going to have a draft so long as I am the president. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:30:19 KERRY: Daniel, I don't support a draft. But let me tell you where the president's policies have put us. The president -- and this is one of the reasons why I am very proud in this race to have the support of General John Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Admiral William Crowe, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Tony McPeak, who ran the air war for the president's father and did a brilliant job, supporting me; General Wes Clark, who won the war in Kosovo, supporting me; because they all -- and General Baca, who was the head of the National Guard, supporting me. KERRY: Why? Because they understand that our military is overextended under the president. Our Guard and reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies, so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a back-door draft right now. And a lot of our military are underpaid. These are families that get hurt. It hurts the middle class. It hurts communities, because these are our first responders. And they're called up. And they're over there, not over here. Now, I'm going to add 40,000 active duty forces to the military, and I'm going to make people feel good about being safe in our military, and not overextended, because I'm going to run a foreign policy that actually does what President Reagan did, President Eisenhower did, and others. We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did. GIBSON: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute... BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this. GIBSON: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty... (CROSSTALK) BUSH: Let me answer what he just said, about around the world. GIBSON: Well, I want to get into the issue of the back-door draft... 21:31:53 BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. There are 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone, to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say, you know, you're going alone. And people listen. They're sacrificing with us. GIBSON: Senator? 21:32:31 KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition, not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. KERRY: That's not a grand coalition. Ninety percent of the casualties are American. Ninety percent of the costs are coming out of your pockets. I could do a better job. My plan does a better job. And that's why I'll be a better commander in chief. GIBSON: The next question, Senator Kerry, is for you, and it comes from Ann Bronsing, who I believe is over in this area. 21:33:04 Ann Bronsing BRONSING: Senator Kerry, we have been fortunate that there have been no further terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. Why do you think this is? And if elected, what will you do to assure our safety? 21:33:35 KERRY: Thank you very much, Ann. I've asked in my security briefings why that is, and I can't go into all the answers, et cetera, but let me say this to you. This president and his administration have told you and all of us it's not a question of when, it's a question of -- excuse me -- not a question of if, it's a question of when. We've been told that. KERRY: The when I can't tell you. Between the World Trade Center bombing in, what was it, 1993 or so, and the next time was five years, seven years. These people wait. They'll plan. They plot. I agree with the president that we have to go after them and get them wherever they are. I just think I can do that far more effectively, because the most important weapon in doing that is intelligence. You've got to have the best intelligence in the world. And in order to have the best intelligence in the world to know who the terrorists are and where they are and what they're plotting, you've got to have the best cooperation you've ever had in the world. Now, to go back to your question, Nikki, we're not getting the best cooperation in the world today. We've got a whole bunch of countries that pay a price for dealing with the United States of America now. I'm going to change that. And I'm going to put in place a better homeland security effort. Look, 95 percent of our containers coming into this country are not inspected today. When you get on an airplane, your bag is X- rayed, but the cargo hold isn't X-rayed. Do you feel safer? KERRY: This president in the last debate said, "Well, that would be a big tax gap if we did that." Ladies and gentlemen, it's his tax plan. He chose a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans over getting that equipment out into the homeland as fast as possible. We have bridges and tunnels that aren't being secured, chemical plants, nuclear plants that aren't secured, hospitals that are overcrowded with their emergency rooms. If we had a disaster today, could they handle it? This president chose a tax cut over homeland security. Wrong choice. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:35:31 BUSH: That's an odd thing to say, since we've tripled the homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion. Listen, we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent's right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion. The best way to defend America in this world we live in is to stay on the offense. We got to be right 100 percent of the time here at home, and they got to be right once. And that's the reality. And there's a lot of good people working hard. We're doing the best we possibly can to share information. That's why the Patriot Act was important. BUSH: The Patriot Act is vital, by the way. It's a tool that law enforcement now uses to be able to talk between each other. My opponent says he hadn't changed his position on it. No, but he's for weakening it. I don't think my opponent has got the right view about the world to make us safe; I really don't. First of all, I don't think he can succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it'd be a haven for terrorists, and there would be money and the world would be much more dangerous. I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the American president if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be there in the first place. This war is a long, long war, and it requires steadfast determination and it requires a complete understanding that we not only chase down Al Qaida but we disrupt terrorist safe havens as well as people who could provide the terrorists with support. GIBSON: I want to extend for a minute, Senator. And I'm curious about something you said. You said, "It's not when, but if." You think it's inevitable because the sense of security is a very basic thing with everybody in this country worried about their kids. 21:37:22 KERRY: Well, the president and his experts have told America that it's not a question of if; it's a question of when. And I accept what the president has said. These terrorists are serious, they're deadly, and they know nothing except trying to kill. I understand that. That's why I will never stop at anything to hunt down and kill the terrorists. But you heard the president just say to you that we've added money. Folks, the test is not if you've added money; the test is that you've done everything possible to make America secure. He chose a tax cut for wealthy Americans over the things that I listed to you. GIBSON: Mr. President? 21:37:55 BUSH: Well, we'll talk about the tax cut for middle class here in a minute. But yes, I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country. And all I can tell you is every day I know that there's people working overtime, doing the very best they can. And the reason I'm worried is because there's a vicious enemy that has an ideology of hate. And the way to defeat them long-term, by the way, is to spread freedom. BUSH: Liberty can change habits. And that's what's happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. GIBSON: Mr. President, we're going to turn to questions now on domestic policy. And we're going to start with health issues. And the first question is for President Bush and it's from John Horstman. 21:38:31 John Horstman HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost? 21:38:46 BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you. And that's why the FDA and that's why the surgeon general are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world. BUSH: And we've just got to make sure, before somebody thinks they're buying a product, that it works. And that's why we're doing what we're doing. Now, it may very well be here in December you'll hear me say, I think there's a safe way to do it. There are other ways to make sure drugs are cheaper. One is to speed up generic drugs to the marketplace, quicker. Pharmaceuticals were using loopholes to keep brand -- brand drugs in place, and generics are much less expensive than brand drugs. And we're doing just that. Another is to pass -- to get our seniors to sign up to these drug discount cards, and they're working. Wanda Blackmore I met here from Missouri, the first time she bought drugs with her drug discount card, she paid $1.14, I think it was, for about $10 worth of drugs. These cards make sense. BUSH: And, you know, in 2006 seniors are going to get prescription drug coverage for the first time in Medicare. Because I went to Washington to fix problems. Medicare -- the issue of Medicare used to be called "Mediscare." People didn't want to touch it for fear of getting hurt politically. I wanted to get something done. I think our seniors deserve a modern medical system. And in 2006, our seniors will get prescription drug coverage. Thank you for asking. GIBSON: Senator, a minute and a half. 21:40:40 KERRY: John, you heard the president just say that he thought he might try to be for it. Four years ago, right here in this forum, he was asked the same question: Can't people be able to import drugs from Canada? You know what he said? "I think that makes sense. I think that's a good idea" -- four years ago. Now, the president said, "I'm not blocking that." Ladies and gentlemen, the president just didn't level with you right now again. KERRY: He did block it, because we passed it in the United States Senate. We sent it over to the House, that you could import drugs. We took care of the safety issues. We're not talking about third-world drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles. And we're asking to be able to allow you to get them. The president blocked it. The president also took Medicare, which belongs to you. And he could have lowered the cost of Medicare and lowered your taxes and lowered the costs to seniors. You know what he did? He made it illegal, illegal for Medicare to do what the V.A. does, which is bulk purchase drugs so that you can lower the price and get them out to you lower. He put $139 billion of windfall profit into the pockets of the drug companies right out of your pockets. That's the difference between us. The president sides with the power companies, the oil companies, the drug companies. And I'm fighting to let you get those drugs from Canada, and I'm fighting to let Medicare survive. I'm fighting for the middle class. That is the difference. 21:42:16 BUSH: If they're safe, they're coming. I want to remind you that it wasn't just my administration that made the decision on safety. President Clinton did the same thing, because we have an obligation to protect you. Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished. I've been in Washington, D.C., three and a half years and led the Congress to reform Medicare so our seniors have got a modern health care system. That's what leadership is all about. 21:42:50 KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997 we fixed Medicare, and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't know how to do: We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of our nation for two years in a row, and we created 23 million new jobs at the same time. And it's the president's fiscal policies that have driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure. GIBSON: The next question is for Senator Kerry. And this comes from Norma-Jean Laurent. LAURENT: Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost of health care, yet you chose a vice presidential candidate who has made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How do you reconcile this with the voters? 21:43:48 KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the Patients' Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John Edwards and I support tort reform. We both believe that, as lawyers -- I'm a lawyer, too. And I believe that we will be able to get a fix that has alluded everybody else because we know how to do it. KERRY: It's in my health-care proposal. Go to johnkerry.com. You can pull it off of the Internet. And you'll find a tort reform plan. Now, ladies and gentlemen, important to understand, the president and his friends try to make a big deal out of it. Is it a problem? Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it, particularly for OGBYNs (sic) and for brain surgeons and others? Yes. But it's less than 1 percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up. You've gone up, in Missouri, about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent. You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up. Everything's gone up. Five million people have lost their health insurance under this president. He's done nothing about it. I have a plan. I have a plan to lower the cost of health care for you. I have a plan to cover all children. I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and congressmen give themselves. I have a plan that's going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. KERRY: And I have a plan that will take the catastrophic cases out of the system, off your backs, pay for it out of a federal fund, which lowers the premiums for everybody in America, makes American business more competitive and makes health care more affordable. Now, all of that can happen, but I have to ask you to do one thing: Join me in rolling back the president's unaffordable tax cut for people earning more than $200,000 a year. That's all. Ninety-eight percent of America, I'm giving you a tax cut and I'm giving you health care. GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. 21:45:51 BUSH: Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work. The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion in new spending, and he says he going to tax the rich to close the tax gap. He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his programs. That's just reality. BUSH: And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There's a bill on the floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and voted for if he's so much for it. Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year. And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it. It's the largest increase in federal government health care ever. And it fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won from the National Journal. That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, we got several questions along this line, and I'm just curious if you'd go further on what you talked about with tort reform. Would you be favoring capping awards on pain and suffering? Would you limit attorney's fees? KERRY: A follow-up... GIBSON: Yes. A follow-up on this for... 21:47:21 KERRY: Yes, I think we should look at the punitive and we should have some limitations. But look, what's really important, Charlie, is the president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, "compassionate conservative," what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history. Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2. I mean, seriously -- labels don't mean anything. What means something is: Do you have a plan? And I want to talk about my plan some more -- I hope we can. GIBSON: We'll get to that in just a minute. Thirty seconds, President Bush. 21:48:11 BUSH: You're right, what does matter is a plan. He said he's for -- you're now for capping punitive damages? BUSH: That's odd. You should have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then. Medical liability issues are a problem, a significant problem. He's been in the United States Senate for 20 years and he hasn't addressed it. We passed it out of the House of Representatives. Guess where it's stuck? It's stuck in the Senate, because the trial lawyers won't act on it. And he put a trial lawyer on the ticket. GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Matthew O'Brien. 21:48:47 Matthew O'Brien O'BRIEN: Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran and -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700 billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American people than the spending proposed by your opponent. 21:49:13 BUSH: Right, thank you for that. We have a deficit. We have a deficit because this country went into a recession. You might remember the stock market started to decline dramatically six months before I came to office, and then the bubble of the 1990s popped. And that cost us revenue. That cost us revenue. Secondly, we're at war. And I'm going to spend what it takes to win the war, more than just $120 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've got to pay our troops more. We have. We've increased money for ammunition and weapons and pay and homeland security. I just told this lady over here we spent -- went from $10 billion to $30 billion to protect the homeland. I think we have an obligation to spend that kind of money. And plus, we cut taxes for everybody. Everybody got tax relief, so that they get out of the recession. I think if you raise taxes during a recession, you head to depression. I come from the school of thought that says when people have more money in their pocket during economic times, it increases demand or investment. Small businesses begin to grow, and jobs are added. BUSH: We found out today that over the past 13 months, we've added 1.9 million new jobs in the last 13 months. I proposed a plan, detailed budget, that shows us cutting the deficit in half by five years. And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills, because we work together. Non-homeland, non-defense discretionary spending was raising at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than 1 percent, because we're working together to try to bring this deficit under control. Like you, I'm concerned about the deficit. But I am not going to shortchange our troops in harm's way. And I'm not going to run up taxes, which will cost this economy jobs. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 21:51:11 KERRY: Let me begin by saying that my health-care plan is not what the president described. It is not a government takeover. You have choice. Choose your doctor, choose your plan. The government has nothing to do with it. KERRY: In fact, it doesn't ask you to do anything -- if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. If you like your high premiums, you keep them. That's the way we leave it. Now with respect to the deficit, the president was handed a $5.6 trillion surplus, ladies and gentlemen. That's where he was when he came into office. We now have a $2.6 trillion deficit. This is the biggest turnaround in the history of the country. He's the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. He talked about war. This is the first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when we're at war. Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, others, knew how to lead. They knew how to ask the American people for the right things. One percent of America, the highest one percent of income earners in America, got $89 billion of tax cut last year. One percent of America got more than the 80 percent of America that earned from $100,000 down. KERRY: The president thinks it's more important to fight for that top 1 percent than to fight for fiscal responsibility and to fight for you. I want to put money in your pocket. I am -- I have a proposal for a tax cut for all people earning less than the $200,000. The only people affected by my plan are the top income earners of America. GIBSON: I both -- I heard you both say -- I have heard you both say during the campaign, I just heard you say it, that you're going to cut the deficit by a half in four years. But I didn't hear one thing in the last three and a half minutes that would indicate how either one of you do that. 21:52:56 BUSH: Well, look at the budget. One is make sure Congress doesn't overspend. But let me talk back about where we've been. The stock market was declining six months prior to my arrival. BUSH: It was the largest stock market correction -- one of the largest in history, which foretold a recession. Because we cut taxes on everybody -- remember, we ran up the child credit by $1,000, we reduced the marriage penalty, we created a 10 percent bracket, everybody who pays taxes got relief -- the recession was one of the shortest in our nation's history. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 21:53:38 KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the president asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25 billion giveaway to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254 million refund check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question will be for you, and it comes from James Varner, who I believe is in this section. Mr. Varner? You need a microphone. James Varner VARNER: Thank you. 21:54:38 Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language, give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than $200,000 a year during your first term? KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera. Yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut. And here's my tax cut. I raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids. I have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college. And I lower the cost of health care in the way that I described to you. Every part of my program I've shown how I'm going to pay for it. And I've gotten good people, like former Secretary of the Treasury Bob Rubin, for instance, who showed how to balance budgets and give you a good economy, to help me crunch these numbers and make them work. KERRY: I've even scaled back some of my favorite programs already, like the child-care program I wanted to fund and the national service program, because the president's deficit keeps growing and I've said as a pledge, "I'm going to cut the deficit in half in four years." Now, I'm going to restore what we did in the 1990s, ladies and gentlemen: pay as you go. We're going to do it like you do it. The president broke the pay-as-you-go rule. Somebody here asked the question about, "Why haven't you vetoed something?" It's a good question. If you care about it, why don't you veto it? I think John McCain called the energy bill the "No Lobbyist Left Behind" bill. I mean, you've got to stand up and fight somewhere, folks. I'm pledging I will not raise taxes; I'm giving a tax cut to the people earning less than $200,000 a year. Now, for the people earning more than $200,000 a year, you're going to see a rollback to the level we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money. KERRY: And looking around here, at this group here, I suspect there are only three people here who are going to be affected: the president, me, and, Charlie, I'm sorry, you too. (LAUGHTER) GIBSON: Mr. President, 90 seconds. 21:56:38 BUSH: He's just not credible when he talks about being fiscally conservative. He's just not credible. If you look at his record in the Senate, he voted to break the caps -- the spending caps -- over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a fiscal conservative, all of a sudden. It's just not credible. You cannot believe it. And of course he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And you say: Well, how are you going to pay for it? He says, well, he's going to raise the taxes on the rich -- that's what he said -- the top two brackets. That raises, he says $800 billion; we say $600 billion. BUSH: We've got battling green eye shades. Somewhere in between those numbers -- and so there's a difference, what he's promised and what he can raise. Now, either he's going to break all these wonderful promises he's told you about or he's going to raise taxes. And I suspect, given his record, he's going to raise taxes. Is my time up yet? GIBSON: No, you can keep going. (LAUGHTER) BUSH: Good. You looked at me like my clock was up. I think that the way to grow this economy is to keep taxes low, is have an energy plan, is to have litigation reform. As I told you, we've just got a report that said over the past 13 months, we've created 1.9 million new jobs. And so the fundamental question of this campaign is: Who's going to keep the economy growing so people can work? That's the fundamental question. GIBSON: I'm going to come back one more time to how these numbers add up and how you can cut that deficit in half in four years, given what you've both said. 21:58:13 KERRY: Well, first of all, the president's figures of $2.2 trillion just aren't accurate. Those are the fuzzy math figures put together by some group that works for the campaign. That's not the number. Number two, John McCain and I have a proposal, jointly, for a commission that closes corporate giveaway loopholes. We've got $40 billion going to Bermuda. We've got all kinds of giveaways. We ought to be shutting those down. And third, credible: Ladies and gentlemen, in 1985, I was one of the first Democrats to move to balance the budget. I voted for the balanced budget in '93 and '97. We did it. We did it. And I was there. GIBSON: Thirty seconds. I'm sorry, thirty seconds, Mr. President. 21:58:57 BUSH: Yes, I mean, he's got a record. It's been there for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide. He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures. And so people are going to have to look at the record. Look at the record of the man running for the president. BUSH: They don't name him the most liberal in the United States Senate because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named him because of his votes. And it's reality. It's just not credible to say he's going to keep taxes down and balance budgets. GIBSON: Mr. President, the next question is for you, and it comes from James Hubb over here. James Hubb HUBB: Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply? 21:59:47 BUSH: Off-road diesel engines -- we have reached an agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90 percent. I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by 3 million. We've got an aggressive brown field program to refurbish inner-city sore spots to useful pieces of property. I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent. I have -- was fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the conservation reserve program to set aside millions of acres of land to help improve wildlife and the habitat. We proposed and passed a healthy forest bill which was essential to working with -- particularly in Western states -- to make sure that our forests were protected. BUSH: What happens in those forests, because of lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like tinderboxes. And over the last summers I've flown over there. And so, this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and at the same time make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest fires that have destroyed acres after acres in the West. We've got a good, common-sense policy. Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen over time is technology is going to change the way we live for the good for the environment. That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending $1 billion to come up with the technologies to do that. That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make sure we can use coal but in a clean way. I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land. BUSH: The quality of the air's cleaner since I've been the president. Fewer water complaints since I've been the president. More land being restored since I've been the president. Thank you for your question. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, minute and a half. 22:01:50 KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment. Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not. Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels around. Labels don't mean anything. I supported welfare reform. I led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was heresy. Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen. Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of the worst administrations in modern history. KERRY: The Clear Skies bill that he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of the sky, slap it onto something, like "No Child Left Behind" but you leave millions of children behind. Here they're leaving the skies and the environment behind. If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today, no change, the air would be cleaner that it is if you pass the Clear Skies act. We're going backwards. In fact, his environmental enforcement chief air-quality person at the EPA resigned in protest over what they're doing to what are calling the new source performance standards for air quality. They're going backwards on the definition for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality. They pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead, didn't even accept the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science. GIBSON: Mr. President? 22:03:29 BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyoto treaty, which I guess he's referring to, it would have cost America a lot of jobs. It's one of these deals where, in order to be popular in the halls of Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I think there's a better way to do it. BUSH: And I just told you the facts, sir. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been the president of the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and development, because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're accustomed to and being able to protect our environment better, the use of technologies. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. 22:03:57 KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto, and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this president didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen, and we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You wonder, Nikki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the world. You just say: Hey, we don't agree with you. Goodbye. The president's done nothing to try to fix it. I will. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you. It involves jobs, which is a topic of the news today. GIBSON: And for the question, we're going to turn to Jane Barrow. Jane Barrow BARROW: Senator Kerry, how can the U.S. be competitive in manufacturing given -- in manufacturing, excuse me -- given the wage necessary and comfortably accepted for American workers to maintain the standard of living that they expect? 22:04:56 KERRY: Jane, there are a lot of ways to be competitive. And unfortunately again I regret this administration has not seized them and embraced them. Let me give you an example. There is a tax loophole right now. If you're a company in St. Louis working, trying to make jobs here, there is actually an incentive for you to go away. You get more money, you keep more of your taxes by going abroad. I'm going to shut that loophole, and I'm going to give the tax benefit to the companies that stay here in America to help make them more competitive. Secondly, we're going to create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America. Third, what's really hurting American business more than anything else is the cost of health care. Now, you didn't hear any plan from the president, because he doesn't have a plan to lower the cost of health care. KERRY: Five million Americans have lost their health care; 620,000 Missourians have no health care at all; 96,000 Missourians have lost their health care under President Bush. I have a plan to cover those folks. And it's a plan that lowers cost for everybody, covers all children. And the way I pay for it -- I'm not fiscally irresponsible -- is I roll back the tax cut this president so fiercely wants to defend, the one for him and me and Charlie. I think you ought to get the break. I want to lower your cost to health care. I want to fully fund education, No Child Left Behind, special-needs education. And that's how we're going to be more competitive, by making sure our kids are graduating from school and college. China and India are graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are. KERRY: We've got to create the products of the future. That's why I have a plan for energy independence within 10 years. And we're going to put our laboratories and our colleges and our universities to work. And we're going to get the great entrepreneurial spirit of this country, and we're going to free ourselves from this dependency on Mideast oil. That's how you create jobs and become competitive. GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half. 22:06:59 BUSH: Let me start with how to control the cost of health care: medical liability reform, for starters, which he's opposed. Secondly, allow small businesses to pool together so they can share risk and buy insurance at the same discounts big businesses get to do. Thirdly, spread what's called health savings accounts. It's good for small businesses, good for owners. You own your own account. You can save tax-free. You get a catastrophic plan to help you on it. This is different from saying, "OK, let me incent you to go on the government." He's talking about his plan to keep jobs here. You know he calls it an outsourcing to keep -- stop outsourcing. Robert Rubin looked at his plan and said it won't work. BUSH: The best way to keep jobs here in America is, one, have an energy plan. I proposed one to the Congress two years ago, encourages conservation, encourages technology to explore for environmentally friendly ways for coal -- to use coal and gas. It encourages the use of renewables like ethanol and biodiesel. It's stuck in the Senate. He and his running-mate didn't show up to vote when they could have got it going in the Senate. Less regulations if we want jobs here; legal reform if we want jobs here; and we've got to keep taxes low. Now, he says he's only going to tax the rich. Do you realize, 900,000 small businesses will be taxed under his plan because most small businesses are Subchapter S corps or limited partnerships, and they pay tax at the individual income tax level. And so when you're running up the taxes like that, you're taxing job creators, and that's not how you keep jobs here. GIBSON: Senator, I want to extend for a minute, you talk about tax cuts to stop outsourcing. But when you have IBM documents that I saw recently where you can hire a programmer for $12 in China, $56 an hour here, tax credits won't cut it. 22:08:47 KERRY: You can't stop all outsourcing, Charlie. I've never promised that. I'm not going to, because that would be pandering. You can't. But what you can do is create a fair playing field, and that's what I'm talking about. But let me just address what the president just said. Ladies and gentlemen, that's just not true what he said. The Wall Street Journal said 96 percent of small businesses are not affected at all by my plan. And you know why he gets that count? The president got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business. Dick Cheney's counted as a small business. That's how they do things. That's just not right. 22:09:21 BUSH: I own a timber company? (LAUGHTER) That's news to me. (LAUGHTER) Need some wood? (LAUGHTER) Most small businesses are Subchapter S corps. They just are. BUSH: I met Grant Milliron, Mansfield, Ohio. He's creating jobs. Most small businesses -- 70 percent of the new jobs in America are created by small businesses. Taxes are going up when you run up the top two brackets. It's a fact. GIBSON: President Bush, the next question is for you, and it comes from Rob Fowler, who I believe is over in this area. 22:10:22 Rob Fowler FOWLER: President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement and weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions to the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens' around me? And what are the specific justifications for these reforms? 22:10:26 BUSH: I appreciate that. I really don't think your rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support it if I thought that. Every action being taken against terrorists requires court order, requires scrutiny. BUSH: As a matter of fact, the tools now given to the terrorist fighters are the same tools that we've been using against drug dealers and white-collar criminals. So I really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I -- because I think whoever is the president must guard your liberties, must not erode your rights in America. The Patriot Act is necessary, for example, because parts of the FBI couldn't talk to each other. The intelligence-gathering and the law-enforcement arms of the FBI just couldn't share intelligence under the old law. And that didn't make any sense. Our law enforcement must have every tool necessary to find and disrupt terrorists at home and abroad before they hurt us again. That's the task of the 21st century. And so, I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all. BUSH: And I know it's necessary. I can remember being in upstate New York talking to FBI agents that helped bust a Lackawanna cell up there. And they told me they could not have performed their duty, the duty we all expect of them, if they did not have the ability to communicate with each other under the Patriot Act. GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half. 22:12:05 KERRY: Former Governor Racicot, as chairman of the Republican Party, said he thought that the Patriot Act has to be changed and fixed. Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, he is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said over his dead body before it gets... 22:12:19 END OF TAPE.