DN-B-393 Beta SP
Universal Newsreels; Why Defend China?
Ukraine Cleric 2
Senior Russian Orthodox cleric suspected of inciting hatred
CS ON THE SOVIET EDUCATIONAL WORLD. 09:50:45:21 Cs vo. Vs of soviet children wearing red pioneer scarfs. 09:51:17:18 VS of high school students in a soviet classroom engaging in a political discussion. 09:52:11:13 Ms of a student saying that hatred between nations comes from misunderstanding. End cs. CI: EDUCATION: STUDENTS, USSR.
Interview with John Loftus pt 1
INTERVIEWER: Tell me your full name and spell it. 10:01:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: John Loftus L-O-F as in Frank T- U- S as in Sam. INTERVIEWER: And do you have a title or a role? 10:10:17>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Ah former federal prosecutor and historian. INTERVIEWER: How did you come to be interested in a topic as specific as the topic anti-Semitism? 10:20:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I was working for the Attorney General of the United States when I really first came across Antisemitism. I had been assigned to do the CIA cases and the Nazi war crimes cases. Then one day I discovered that many of the Nazi's I'd been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll and had been covered up for years. I ended up being a whistle blower, appeared on 60 minutes, and testifying before congress. Um it was only when I was working on those Nazi war crimes cases did I realize the extent of Antisemitism not only in Europe but in the United States. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE 11:10:21>>> JOHN LOFTUS: As I went through State Department and American Intelligence files I found a lot of direct references that could be called Antisemitism. You know references like oily Jews in State Department reports. You know outright anti-Semitic language. I think it was very common among Ivy league campuses in the 20's and 30's to have a certain anti-Semitic background. And a lot of that permeated the State Department when they went on. Also the fact that many of the Arabic scholars came from very conservative Christian missionary schools in the Middle East. Brought with them a very tainted background on how they perceived Israel. INTERVIEWER: How did this affect the US policies? 11:55:23>>> JOHN LOFTUS: For a long time it was ambivalent. The American people always supported Israel. But for the better part of the 20th century we had a different foreign policy in the State Department and Intelligence Community. And there response was whatever you might say in public about liking the Jews it really is in America's long-term national interest to obtain the cheap and consistent supply of oil. The Arabs had it the Jews didn't. It's as simple as that. it really wasn't about Antisemitism or bigotry it was about greed. You know the old joke if Moses had turned right and settled in Kuwait we probably would have made Israel the 51st state but Israel had no oil and became expendable to American and European reproach --- with the Arabs. INTERVIEWER: But you don't really believe that that's the case that Israel should be seen as expendable INAUDIBLE? 12:50:28>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The American public certainly doesn't see Israel as expendable or as an irritant or in fact the proof is that we non Jews consistently elect congressmen and senators who give more of our tax dollars to Israel every year than any other nation on earth. The American people are solidly on Israel's side. The problem is multinational oil companies sometimes have greater access to the corridors of power than the average citizen. INTERVIEWER: Why do you think the American people are solidly on the side of Israel? 13:22:29>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Well I think the American people understand the basic truth of the situation. Here was a people who belong on their land. They're a democracy. The only democracy in the Middle East. Um and we've always had a soft heart for the underdog. INTERVIEWER: Why do you think despite all the soviet spies outright spies INAUDIBLE and yet Jonathan pollard there seems to be a quiet refusal to adjust the case what is so mysterious? 13:59:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: My next book is about Jonathan Pollard. I'm using his case to illuminate what's going on in the Middle East now. Pollard wanted to be a knight on a white horse and save Israel. He knew that America was holding back information. And what he did was wrong and stupid but pollard wandered into a mind field. He was being framed by the soviets for a terrible intelligence disaster that coincidentally happened the same time. we lost all our agents behind the iron curtain. America had gone blind. We were not prepared for a soviet attack. The soviets made it appear as if Jonathan Pollard gave that information to Israel and then a Russian spy in Israel leaked it back. So many people at the time including me we thought that Jonathan Pollard was a serial killer you know . It turns out it was a complete fraud and every one had been taken. The real betrayers were Aldridge Ames and Robert Hanssen 2 highly placed officials inside our own bureaucracy. 15:03:02>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So instead of studying the drunken wasp and the Russians sent us to chase the Jew boy and everybody fell for it. So but the Russian frame wasn't Pollard's only problem he had problems with some right wing politicians in Israel as well. And they had been lobbying for years to keep him locked up. so it's a very complex story. I'm going to be breaking a lot of it in my new book and some magazine articles that will be published in June. INTERVIEWER: Please repeat that answer. 15:55:05>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Jonathan Pollard really was a young man who blundered into a 3 way cross fire and didn't know. he was aware that US intelligence was withholding promised information from Israel. Um that were actually (PAUSE) So what he did was wrong and stupid but you know his intentions were to help Israel by sending soviet information um soviet supplies to terrorist groups. Primarily that was his goal. The soviets in turn framed Pollard for something else. The real reason his sentence was so extreme was that we were tricked by the soviets into believe that Jonathan Pollard had given Israel a list of all our agents inside Russia. And that a Russian agent in Israel then got a hold of information passed it to Moscow. And in the course of a few months every spy we had behind the iron curtain was captured or killed. It was the worst intelligence disaster in American history. And all the evidence pointed to Jonathan pollard. We couldn't admit that in court because it would ah we couldn't reveal that America had gone blind. That the Russians could attack without warning. We had no intelligences assets left. 17:13:02>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So that was the reason for the sudden change an attitude and why everyone went after him. to us he was a serial killer. It turns out pollard didn't do it. Um the real traders were a drunken wasp inside the CIA named Aldridge Ames and his counter part in the FBI named Robert Hanssen. They had both arrested and have now confessed that they sold the news. But the intelligence community doesn't want to admit a blunder of this magnitude. And so pollard ah is sitting in jail. He should have received a sentence of 15 years out in 3. he's now on his 18th year in prison. INTERVIEWER: As far as the Israel situation today what do you think is motivating the State Department and it's policy? 18:09:25>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Well I think it was. the State Department's policy towards Israel has pretty much Arab appeasement. After 9/11 all that's changed. Israel has quietly been working as a major player in the American wind up to the war with Iraq. Um last summer the king of Jordan allowed us to set up a joint Israeli American airbase on the border with Iraq. And for 6 months we had Israeli pilots flying those Apache helicopters that we gave Israel and they had been mapping the terrain every night all across Iraq looking for missile sites buried, weapon things. And it was very, very helpful. But 3 months later we started to insert American special forces on the ground all over Iraq. Again with Israel's help. Israel has actually had 2 sites in the negative where they've been secretly training American troops in urban warfare at night against biological and chemical weapons. 19:11:17>>> JOHN LOFTUS: And the training has been invaluable. Um American technology has evolved rapidly even since the Afghanistan's war and we've taken a couple of pages out of some of the Israeli strategy book., INTERVIEWER: Do you have no more contacts with Intelligence? 19:31:08>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Um for the last 20 years I have been a lawyer for every whistle blower in the pentagon and the CIA and um I have to screen material before publication but ah you know my clients pay me a dollar a piece. So I have about 500 senior people in the intelligence community that give me information. So I'm probably the worst paid lawyer in America but I'm among the best informed. There is very little that I don't hear about at some point. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE USS Liberty? 20:06:28>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The myth was that ah you know that Israel hit the ship by accident. INTERVIEWER: Start with Israel hit? 20:13:27>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Oh. There have been a lot of myths about the Israel ah. There have been a lot of myths about Israel's attack on the USS Liberty. Ah many members on the crew feel that the, the liberty was intentionally attack to disguise an ongoing Israeli atrocity. Israelis say that publicly that the attack was a mistake. The truth is something else. In my last book The Secret War Against the Jews I interview people on all sides. What happened is that the Liberty was sent off the coast of Israel to monitor Israeli military communications and to give them to the Arabs. We were helping the Egyptians to prepare a counter attack. What the and Lyndon Johnson wanted to throw the Arabs a bone give them a little intelligence help under the table so they'd still stay friends with us. The, Lyndon Johnson didn't know that the Israelis had a spy on the Egyptian general staff. 21:18:00>>> JOHN LOFTUS: And learned of the Liberty's role within a few hours. A hot debate took place in the tunnel in Israel and ah about what to do about the Liberty. One faction wanted to sink the ship. One bomb would have put it in the bottom of the Mediterranean in seconds. But then the Ramatcall Isaac Rubin said Lyndon Johnson might be at war with Israel but the American people are not. And Rubin wanted to compromise. In order to save Israeli lives they would have to put the Liberty spy gear out of commission but it had to be done with a minimum loss of American lives. That's why the raid on the Liberty took place in 3 different stages. The first group of planes buzzed the ship and um so the American sailors would have time to get below decks and button themselves up out of harms way. the scorned group put maypon rockets on the spying antennas on top of the ship and burned them all out. the third group came in torpedo boats but they only fired one torpedo precisely into the one water tight hold where the Liberty spy computer was. So every piece of espionage gear was knocked out. 90 % of the American crew survived. It was the best the Israelis could do. then the Israelis called in their American counter part and told them what they had done to the Liberty and why. And Lyndon Johnson asked the government of Israel to pretend it was all a mistake. Johnson reimbursed Israel under the table for all the compensation it paid for the ship. INTERVIEWER: Do you see any comparison in the Arab in the wake of the 9/11 attacks? 23:07:22>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think there are a lot of parallels between modern Antisemitism and pre World War II Antisemitism. Um after World War I um the a fisal(?) was prepared to have a Jewish national home established and they would publish papers and Mecca Madean was saying we should welcome the Jews back it would be good for industry and they have a right to live in this land. British intelligence was furious and so they organized anti-Semitic riots systematically in the 20's and 30's to create enough of an uproar to force a reversal in British policy. So that Antisemitism was really engineered from the outside. There were ah Syrian fanatic named Isadine was sent down in the 30's to lead a terrorist attack against Israel. In fact they've named the Isadine a Hamas brigades after him. He's INTERVIEWER: Inaudible? 24:02:06>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Yeah Acasam. Isidine A, Isidine Ahasam is the sort of the patriot saint if you will of Islamic terrorists and very few people realize that many of these early programs were organized by French and British, primarily British intelligence against the greaman(?), against the, the Jews. Then the Germans came in. there was a militant Nazi party flourishing in Egypt um that later became known as the Muslim brotherhood. It really had Nazi roots. Even after the war there was a, a Nazi propagandist who was allowed to move to Cairo to keep the movement flourishing. I see it more of an evolution that Antisemitism is cyclical. And it always comes back if someone is willing to make a profit off it. And there have nations have have funded anti-Semitic movements, anti-Israeli movements for a long, long time. the classic case is Yassar Arafat. What's his real name? Most people don't know. it's Abdullah Husani. His clan was the Nazi clan of Jerusalem. Their home was bulldozed and is now part of the great plaza facing the western wall. 25:19:23>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So first they worked for the Nazi. And then in the 50's they defected and went to work for the communists. And now of course Arafat is a noble prize winner. But ah the whole concept of Antisemitism if fundamentally repugnant to Islam. If ah you go back and read the sins of the prophet Mohamed Rea you find a very different view. Mohammed honored Jews. He married a Jew, he forbade prosecution of Jews, he would stand up and bow when a Jewish passed. The Koran says explicitly that the children of Israel shall live in their land till the end of time when Allah will gather them all together. And Mohamed specifically said the Jews will have their holy place in the West meaning Jerusalem while we will have ours in the East meaning Mecca. Um in the several first centuries of the Calafet(?) there was an extraordinary bond between the Jews and the Muslims. They were both people of the book. They were the only 2 societies on earth that required literacy to practice their faiths. 26:24:15>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So there was a great deal of interplay and cooperation between them. when we Christians were having our dark ages the Jews and Muslims were having a golden age. If you wanted to go to law school or med school you went to a Muslim in Spain and were taught by a Jewish professor. That was the age of Momoties(?). It wasn't perfect but it was a, a very splendid society. Then about 3 centuries ago the Arab Muslims decided they could control (PHONE) INTERVIEWER: Ok 27:00:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: About 3 centuries ago the Arab dictators decided they could control their people better if they banned the printing press. Now the Muslim faith depended upon literacy. And Mohamed said the Koran is a beautiful but ambiguous poem. It can be interpreted in 72 different ways and 71 of them will be false. Well if you can't read the Hadith encyclopedia of all the witnesses that knew Mohammed during his life you can't understand it. What happened when they banned the printing press was that the peasants were easy to control but they were also easier to manipulate religiously. They could take quotes from the Koran out of context and make it appear as though Mohamed favored the persecution of Jews. Ah and it was a very successful campaign. In any religious the Tarah (PAUSE)and the Koran you can take passages out of context and give them a very different spin. So for 300 years one group in particular the Whabies totally abused the Koran to stand it on its head and to use it as an instrument of warfare and a mandate for anti-Semitism. Whabieism was condemned as a heracy(?) more than 60 times for the Muslims but it prospered largely because the Whabies attacked Mecca and Medina and ah established a new kingdom the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. 28:26:01>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So here we have quite frankly one of the greatest groups of bigots of all time blessed with an unimaginable wealth. It was as if David Duke captured the state of Texas and used it to export the Klu Klux Klan. The Klu the Whabieism ah is the Klu Klux Klan of the Muslim world. They were 1.2 billion Muslims only 15% of them are Arabs. Only a tiny percentage are Whabies. But their enormous wealth has had a huge impact on the world. Only 2 nations every really practiced Whabieism Saudi Arabia and the Taliban. And um what the Saudis have been doing is taking their oil money and exporting Whabieism across America around the world. 80% of American mosque are financially dependent on Saudi subsidies for their survival. In return the Saudis get to name who the religious instructors are. They set things called the World Association of Muslim Youth. So Bin Ladin's brothers were the coordinators of it. 29:28:17>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So it was a talent spotting outfit from the most extreme elements of the Arab society. The Saudi approach was very simple ah we're gonna bribe our clerks into looking the other way while we go to Paris to go to brothels. We're also going to bribe the terrorist into staying out of Saudi Arabia and go blow up someone else. And so on 9/11 we found out that we were someone else. And all the years and years of turning a blind eye to Saudi support for terrorism suddenly evaporated. One intelligence official told me that ah we knew for years that the Saudis were funding terrorism but they were selling us oil at a discount besides they were only killing Jews. They weren't killing Americans. Well that kind of bigoted indifference yeah lay amid the rubble on September 11th. But that was the genuine attitude. You know we knew the Saudis were doing but we'd close our eyes to it. Did we know that the Saudis were hiring groups to attack Israel? Absolutely we knew it all. INTERVIEWER: If it wasn't for the US policy in the Middle East it would have been someone else had the US not been as a supporter of Israel is that accurate do you believe? 30:45:12>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think that from the Saudi point of view and the Whabie point of view the ultimately enemy really isn't Israel it's western democracies. It's modernism. You know whether it's in France or Britain that these societies the societies have to be destroyed. They want total right wing Muslim domination of the world. That is literally what they believe in. and they are willing to use any means including terrorism to attain it. Not all Saudis. half of the royal Saudi family are very friendly to us. They keep selling us their oil and their kids go to college here. But the right wing group that's now coming into power is extremely right wing. And they have been behind some of the most violent acts in recent years. So I've rounded up a group of lawyers in America last April and I said why don't we file a lawsuit against the Saudi loyal family a class action on behalf of all the victims of 911 I'll give you all the evidence and line up all the experts. And I'll do it for free I do all my legal work for free. But ah so we did it on august 15th we filed a 1 trillion dollar lawsuit against the Saudi royal family, Saudi banks, Saudi charities. They had a whole system for money laundering that directly supported the attackers on 911. INTERVIEWER: Were there any warnings that the State Department and the intelligence community heard? 32:18:00>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Well prior to 911 it wasn't that we failed to connect the dots we were telling the people out in the field don't send us anymore dots. And we all there was a hold on any investigation of the Saudis and the Saudis link to terrorism. Oliver North said every time that I tried to do something about terrorist in the Middle East I was told to stop because it'll embarrass he Saudis. The Saudi oil wealth and its alliance with out State Department was so pervasive that there was an article of faith in the CIA and the FBI a good way to ruin your career is to talk about the Saudis and terrorism. Everybody at senior levels knew and they were doing their best to suppress it. To keep a lid on it the story. So there will be a day of reckoning as people start, if congress is really serious about investigation how we came to this they we find scores of FBI and CIA agents who say you know I tried to warn them and no one would listen. Al Qaeda expert John O'Neil went around Washington banging on doors saying this man Osmo Bin Laden is a mad man he's going to attack America he's gonna kill people and the Saudis are funding it. And everyone told him to go away. So John quit the FBI in disgust and 2 weeks later he was at new job as chief of security at the twin trade towers and died in the attack. 33:44:19>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The irony is that the person best equipped to blow the lid on how the bureaucrats in Washington were covering up the Saudi al Qaeda was himself killed by Al Qaeda on 911. INTERVIEWER: Inaudible 34:16:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Yeah I think the Saudi point of view was that they would fund any group that would be anti Israel. See Israel had done something that really offended the Saudis. Whatever else they may have done the Israelis took every Palestinian kid and put him in school. From kindergarten to university. 16 new universities on the West Bank alone. So for the first time in 300 years Israel created a literate Arab class. The literacy rate among Palestinians is 97%. Among the highest in the entire Arab world. The Palestinians were exposed to western business practices, western values to democracy. And it looked as the soviet union collapsed that no one was funding terrorism that a peace treaty might appear and there was a brief lull of Oslo where it looked like there might be a Palestinian nation at peace with Israel and it would be the first Arab democracy. 35:10:12>>> JOHN LOFTUS: King Fahad was determined to stop that. he said next to the Jews we hate the Palestinians the most. The Palestinians would be a cancer in the Arab world because they would be a self ruling people that couldn't be under the thumbs of the dictators. So what the Saudis did was to go around run up all the groups that had previously been funded by the communist and take them over. Groups like the Palestinian Islamic jihad came on the Saudi payroll in the 80's. and Islamic jihad's role was not just to kill Jews but to kill any Palestinian who was willing to work with Israel for peace or to recognize the state of Israel. So every time that Israel and the Palestinians got close to a peace agreement the Saudis would wreck it by funneling more money through their charity pipelines. And groups like Islamic jihad would send in suicide bombers to blow the peace apart. So the Saudi strategy was to block the creation of a Palestinian state. They were betraying their Arab brothers. They had to do it secretly through a cutout through charities and fund groups like Hamas and Islamic jihad to wreck the peace process. A very cynical strategy. INTERVIEWER: So it's not the Americans and the Israelis INAUDIBLE? 36:26:08>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Yes democracy will be a cancer in the Arab peninsula. As soon as the first Arab democracy is established very state will ah clamor. Ah who would ever elect the Saudi royal family to be their rulers. They have no popular support. I think ah as we establish a western democracy in Iraq that will greatly change the entire political structure of that land. You'll have a chain of secular Muslim states from turkey through Iraq, through Jordan and it will cut the Arabia peninsula down the middle and the separate the rouge states of Iran and Syria. And how long will their dictators last ah with American funded propaganda on their borders beating radio and TV signals in. I think the world is gonna be changing very rapidly. I think that America's finally recognizing that we don't need the oil as much as we need good strong democracies in the Middle East. We need more Israel's. Let the people decide their own lives. INTERVIEWER: When it comes to the war on terror how do you see it concerning the US and Israel. Is one side showing too much restraint, not enough? 37:52:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: Historically America has always twisted Israel's arm to show restraint on its war on terrorism. Um and I think that Israel has done remarkable. I mean sending in ground troops to Jenin was nothing short of heroic you know that we would minimize civilian causalities um despite the Arab propaganda there was a massacre in Jenin um it turns out there wasn't it was a massive hoax. The American approach in Afghanistan was not to send in ground troops but to use smart bombs. You know had we gone into a Jenin situation we would have leveled it. and then poked with a crater that there were al Qaeda there. Um so there are differences in approach. The new American strategy in the Iraq war is pretty sophisticated though. In Afghanistan we had ah green berets on horseback in with the tribesmen with cell phones and they would call up to the B52 bomber 5 miles up to drop bombs ahead of them. well in Iraq the real key technology is that we're not using cell phones we're using palm pilots. A little device you point it at an Iraqi tank 5 kilometers away and press a button. A laser beam measures it's coordinates, automatically dials up to the B-52 and instantly programs the smart bomb computer. And the smart bomb then steers itself down 5 miles and hits within 3 meters of the center of the tank. 39:11:14>>> JOHN LOFTUS: So there will be fewer civilian causalities because of these tremendous technological advances. But ah in the long run the only way to stop terrorism is to cut off the funding. Terrorism is a very expensive industry. And it is an industry. It takes a million dollars per operation on average. It's not just the cost of you know dynamite and a suicide bombers belt. You have to have the safe house, the trainers, the recruiters, transportation, documents. Very expensive and if we want terrorism to stop we have to tell the Saudis to stop funding it. We have to clamp down those nations like ah Afghanistan and Iraq that have become safe havens for terrorism. Now there are fewer and fewer places on the planet where terrorist can regroup, set up training schools and find a safe haven for killing. So we're changing the rules. We're not twisting Israel's arm anymore we're twisting Arab arms to become democratic states because nations that have democracies very rarely indulge in terrorism or engage in war. INTERVIEWER: Can you talk about pre world war II Arab sympathy versus today's views towards them? 40:30:14>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think before world war II the Arabian peninsula was a loose conglomeration of you know clans the British called them tribes with flags. But they generally had no sense of pan Arab nationalism that was largely created by the British foreign office to try and group all the Arabs back together. The idea was to drive the French out of Syria and ah you know make Arabia safe for the British oil companies. I think that the Antisemitism that existed was actually imported in many ways. Inside Palestine for example most of the Palestinians had gotten along well with the Jews. They were happy to see more Jewish immigration because it was bringing in jobs. It was a literally an empty land. Years of plagues and um had decimated Jerusalem for example ah up until the civil war all that was there was the old city. And um it could hold 6 times as many inhabitants. With Jewish immigration came renovations and you know sewer systems and water lines and it ended the plagues that use to ah to discriminate the populations. 41:45:01>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The Arab populations actually moved into Israel along with waves of Al-- - because there was work there and an incredible amount of religious tones. Ah many people don't realize that between 1948 when the Jordanians seized the city and 67 the Jews were persecuted. Jewish homes were burned down. Families that had lived in a Jewish home for centuries their synagogues were destroyed. Jews were not allowed to worship at all. In 67 when Israel took Jerusalem they opened up the temple to people of all faiths for free access. I think it was the very compassionate and tolerant nature of Israeli society had a dramatic impact on their peace with their Arab neighbors. But again terrorism had to be exported. And back in the 20's they would bring people in from Iraq for terrorism or from Syria. Um Arafat ah really operated almost entirely from foreign bases except for one brief 3 year period he wasn't even in Palestine. INTERVIEWER: What do you think is motivating the Israeli Palestinian conflict today from within? 43:10:10>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I'm a cynic. I think that money is at the root of all racism. Arafat for example is all about money. I mean he'll any flavor you want. he was a Nazi once now he's a communist now he's you know pro American. The Israeli counsel general told me that Arafat doesn't ever want to have a Palestinian nation because if he does he won't be able to steal 20% of the PA's budget he'll have an opposition party. He'll have budgets. He'll have accountability and audits. So Arafat ironically is betraying his own people to wreck peace plans. Every time they get close his goal is the status quo to enrich his clan. He's about the money. The money has an impact. There's a huge amount of unemployment among Palestinian youth and let's face it a lot of teenage boys are near social anyways its just the age they go through. And if someone says to them we're gonna give your family 35,000 dollars and you'll be a hero. You'll be a suicide bomber um your family will be taken care of for life and instead of being an unemployed bum you'll be this your family will revere you forever. Well some teenage boys will find that attractive because of the money. You take their money away and it won't happen. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE? 44:43:21>>> JOHN LOFTUS: The average Palestinian does just want to live their lives and coexist in peace. When I was doing interviews in the West Bank the refrain was very typical. All the people I spoke to said we don't want Arab extremist we don't want Jewish extremist we want the tourist back. They want jobs for their kids. They want a livelihood. The terrible price as people like Arafat and the Saudis have sandbagged the peace process and after Oslo the interfata has caused a huge loss in Palestinian income um by building a barrier around Israel to keep the Palestinians tradesmen out. It's causing a huge depression on Palestinian society. And poverty breeds hatred and fear. And there's just so many lives being split up and young kids get suckered into believing. Sometimes old nations too. France and Germany should be extremely embarrassed by their recent conduct. INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE how could the US defeat this? 46:00:26>>> JOHN LOFTUS: In the short run the United States will obtain the INAUDIBLE of Arab radicals but so what. The real answer in the long run is education. That's why for several years I was the first Irish catholic president of the flora Holocaust museum. We have to education kids of all races and religions. That we must have a common bond against genesis. I think that by resorting freedom of speech and the press and resorting full pubic education throughout the Arab peninsula that alone will have a major impact. For example now the polls shows that 83% of the population of Iran wants the Mulas gone. They want to live in a democratic western society because they see it on TV. As much as we laugh at TV it has had a major impact on the Arab world. That ah you know the mulas tried to ban the satellite dishes in Iran because the kids were finding out there was oil in Iran. They wanted to know where the money was going. 47:01:02>>> JOHN LOFTUS: I think ah you know as much as we knock CNN as the crescent news network it is penetrating Arab society. We need to more of that. I tell my Jewish friends that I think that Jews don't have the genes for public relations. There something missing in your DNA code. There should be you know Arab language broadcasting so that Israel's position gets out. we should have an organized effort to countenance the vast waves of lies that come out. um Israel now was the initiator of the 67 war and the 73 war. Absurd. A lot of kids don't know that the the UN withdrew broke every promise to Israel in 67. allowed the blockade action blockade the straits of Tehran. Refused to allow a ship to go I the panama canal even to carry Israel goods. Even if it was owned by a Christian being sent to another Christian. Every international agreement was violated. But Arab propaganda has had a tremendous effect. We've had an entire generation of bigots raised in the Middle East. And it's gonna take a long while for that to change.
Olivier Véran
Clinton - Chicago
Clinton speaks at the University of Chicago Commencement exercises.
Russian Soldiers
Russian Soldiers in Chechnya roaming the streets on foot and in armored tanks.
US Interior Secretary Harold Ickes says the American people are determined to defeat Adolf Hitler at all costs
00:00:00:00 [DUBBER: NO LENGTH GIVEN] Just arrived from USSR via W Berlin, Anatoly Shcharansky SOTs re: time spent away from wife; Soviet hatred toward Russian Jews; happiest day of his life bu ...
NEWSFEED 2/5-7/03, COLIN POWELL PRESENTS CASE AGAINST IRAQ TO UN, VARIOUS AMBASSADORS, GW BUSH, DONALD RUMSFELD, JOHN ASHCROFTINT MS Colin Powell seatedat the UN Security Council gives case for 'serious consequences' for Iraq ; CU Video still of Intercepted Aluminum Tubes, MS Weapons inspectors Hans Blix & Mohamed El Baradei, MS Powell talking head ; INT WS Pan from observing audience to the round table of the UN Security Council, MS Powell continues on to Iraq's nuclear program ; CU Infographic of Iraq w/title: Iraq's Covert Scud Variants & Developmental Missile, CU Infographic: 'Liquid Engine Test Facility' ; MS Powell continues, CU Photo of a UAV (Un-manned Aviation Vehicle), MS Powell, CU Infographic of the route an Iraqi UAV took ; MS Powell, VAR Serious-faced observers, MS Powell gets into ties between Iraq & Al Quaeda ; CU Satellite photo: Terrorist Poison & Explosives Factory in Khurmal, WS Audience, MS Powell continues on the theme of terrorism ;INT WS Pan across Security Council table & z-in to Powell, CU Infographic: Al-Zarqawi's Iraq-Linked Terrorist Network, MS Powell ; 'Ambition & hatred are enough to bring Al Quaeda & Iraq together' ; MS Pan across faces of Security Council members, MS Powell paraphrases statements from captured Al Quaeda members ; MS Powell gets into Iraq's human rights abuses, MS Iraqi Ambassador continues taking notes, MS Powell wraps up speech ; WS French & Chinese Ambassadors, MS Russian Ambassador, CU Chinese Ambassador begins his reaction speech, WS Security Council ; MS Chinese Ambassador talking head (wants more inspections & action only thru the UN Security Council) ; George Walker BUSH: INT MS G.W. Bush talks head about UN Security Council resolution 1441 & why military intervention is needed ; DEPT OF JUSTICE PRESS CONFERENCE: INT MS Spokesman/Tom Ridge talks of national security & why threat level has risen from Yellow to Orange ;..'We ask you to remain aware & remain alert'..PRESS CONFERENCE CONT: FBI spokesman takes podium & talks head about the Orange threat level & how to report suspicious activity ; PRESS CONF CONT: INT MS John Ashcroft takes the podium & answers questions about what an Orange threat means: VAR ; IRAQ ARMS INSPECTION: INT MS Donald Rumsfeld talking head, DX WS UN Inspector Jeeps drive in desert,WS Inspectors walk in desert ; IRAQ: INT WS Hans Blix walks by camera, CU talk head about Orange threat level ;
01:00:22 Film begins with a very fast cut montage. First part of the story is mute. Images are: flashing coloured blocks, Leonardo de Vinci's famous line drawing of a man (the image used at the beginning of "World in Action"), landscapes, C/U of woman's eyes, a handshake, wrestlers, a holy man holding a bunch of flowers, soldiers on the march, C/U of bunch of flowers in a vase, extreme C/U of a mouth moving, Molotov cocktail being lit, building being demolished, clenched fist, V for victory sign, clenched fist, skyscape with various coloured filters. Montage presumably aims to suggest contrast between war and peace. <br/> <br/>01:00:39 Time lapse photography of clouds moving across a landscape and sun rising. Clouds shot in time lapse. Camera follows a seagull as it flies above the sea. Extreme C/U of light playing on the water, camera pulls back to show sea moving over rocks. L/S from high angle of beautiful rugged beach. Landscape, cows lie in a field. Extreme C/U of man's ear pans across to show his eyes. Water rushing across rocks. Pan across to show a woman's eyes in C/U - she smiles. Sound track comes in. C/Us of the faces of the couple are intercut with L/Ss of the landscape. Song on soundtrack is saying: "Why can't we have peace all the time?" C/U of two hands joining - presumably the couple. Shots of the couple embracing and kissing. He caresses the woman's face as she smiles. <br/> <br/>01:03:35 The couple kiss. C/U of the wheels of traffic. Shots of the couple intercut with busy traffic scenes. Gendarme directs traffic. Aircraft flies overhead. The couple begin to argue. We see them getting angry with each other - shots intercut with traffic scenes and demonstrators with banners. Shots of the couple arguing are intercut with shots of dictators, angry civilians, tanks, Nazis, barbed wire, C/Us of angry mouths etc. The man grabs a chain from the woman's neck. <br/> <br/>01:04:25 War montage - tanks, explosions, guns being loaded, bombers flying overhead, demonstrations, machine guns, warship, bombs being dropped, aircraft in flight on fire, bombing raids, nuclear bomb - mushroom cloud. Excellent montage - very short shots. Narrator speaks over the war shots: "We have always lived in fear, afraid of one another. One nation afraid of other nations. Today the conflict between blocks, West versus East . The spokesman for each: NATO and the Warsaw Pact, both maintaining a state of uneasy peace. This film is about fear, about conflict, about 15 nations who decided that the best way of maintaining peace was to form a defensive alliance born out of fear. What was there to be frightened of?" Narration describes how after the second world war, people looked forward to a stable and peaceful future. The narrator then details how the Soviet Union had annexed various territories during the war and how it continued with aggressive behaviour in the immediate post war period. Long travelling shots of bomb damaged buildings. Prisoners of war (?) Montage of the civilian victims of aggression - food queues, evacuees (?), women and children looking sad. "...before anyone realised the danger, the damage was done. Besides, there was no European Alliance to protect it." A simplistic animation of a wall being built in the middle of an idyllic landscape is used to represent "military unification - one massive block." Narrator speaks of the forming of the North Atlantic Treaty organisation. Camera zooms in to a representation of the earth viewed from space. Examples of the flags of the 15 countries contributing to this defensive alliance. Numbers on screen count back from 1960 to 1945. Still image of soldiers holding their fists high in victory pose. Still of women waving to a departing liner. High angle shot of Stalin shaking hands then sitting down at a circular conference table. Soldiers on the march, tanks in the street, Unidentified Eastern European leader lying in state. <br/> <br/>01:06:49 The Berlin blockade, Hungary and Poland. Various shots of military presence including a very clear shot of a civilian being shot in the back as he runs from soldiers - he falls to the ground. Map of Europe showing which countries Russia had invaded up to and including Czechoslovakia in 1968. C/U of Stalin. Group of men stand and applaud. M/S of Russian army march past. Tank. C/U of flags of NATO - "The reluctant soldier" - various shots of members of NATO - meeting in progress. Members showing their identification papers as they enter the NATO building. C/U of NATO representatives. <br/> <br/>01:07:50 Aircraft flying overhead. Narrator speaks of nuclear weapons. C/Us of signs in Berlin which read: "British Sector." "Vous quittez le Secteur Francais" and "You are leaving the American sector." Aircraft comes in to land. A large star draped in fabric or perhaps a flag, falls from the top of a building. Men run for cover, walls are rebuilt, barbed wire is attached to a pole, cameramen duck for cover, people look through barbed wire. <br/> <br/>01:08:22 Nikita Krushchev disembarks from a train and embraces a man not recognised. Tank, radar equipment, submarines, aircraft, aircraft carriers, military at work, helicopters. Voiceover speaks of the stockpile of nuclear weapons. Various shots of NATO members. "The ultimate disaster may never happen, but there are other, more immediate problems which affect us all. Pollution..." Environmental concerns are taken up by NATO. "There is little point in keeping the peace for over 20 years if the lives we live today are threatened by poison, disease and decay." Still image of a cowboy just about to reach for his gun in extreme C/U with a figure standing in the distance in a field - as if in the sights of the gunman. <br/> <br/>01:09:46 Montage of still images of children playing in the open air. C/Us of children's faces and hands. We see the children fight with each other through the stills. "We have within us the potential for hatred and the potential for love. For war or for peace. While we have the time, which shall we choose?" <br/> <br/>01:10:08 Launch of a Polaris missile from the sea. Animation of missiles piling up on top of the earth until it cracks apart under the strain. Montage of images presumably representing how we have polluted the earth. A small motor boat is moves through polluted waters, industrial chimneys belch smoke, traffic, exhaust pipes, dead fish in polluted river, aircraft, dirty water emerging from sewage (?) pipes, Shots of nuclear missile being prepared for launch contrasted with shots of the loving couple and of hyacinths growing through time lapse photography. <br/> <br/>Shot of the couple with a clapperboard in view. They stand very still and look serious. Landscape shots - river, field, seascapes, cliffs, rolling clouds, sun setting. End title reads: "A NATO film. Camera: Nick Gifford. Sound: Peter Le Moine. Editor: Richard Perfitt. Producer: Michael Redington. Director: Lawrence Moore. An RMEMI production. <br/> <br/>Note: There is no soundtrack for this part of the film . Can labels state that this was "Production 24" and that the M&E track was also used for Production 29. <br/> <br/>There is a nice "peace and love" hippie feel to the film. Psychedelic images, groovy music, juxtapositioning of "concept" footage. Very interesting!
Interview with Ameed Al-Masri pt 3
Interview with Ameed Al Masri about the Israeli Palestinian situation and negotiations INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 01:02:12>>>,Well there's a whole set of actions that are not helping the situation at all such as the wall that um that is actually dividing the land. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 01:22:25>>>,There's a whole set of actions by the Israeli side that is not helping the situation at all nowadays. Such policy as the wall that is actually dividing the territories um that is dividing the territories unfairly cause a perfect scenario for a perfect solution was to ah to construct a state a Palestinian state upon the land of 1967 occupied territories. And ah that's not what's happening. I mean the wall is crossing is it is actually crossing the lands of the 1967 territories. Not mentioning the 200 settlements within the 1967 territories. Um if you're looking for if you're looking for um a good scenario in order to be ale to ah to proceed with, with peace I think um such policy is not helping. I mean it's probably it's probably motivated by security ah security measures that the Israeli side sees but in order to reach your own security you're insecuring other people. You're isolating other people in small in small um in small pieces of land. AMEED AL-MASRI: 03:17:13>>>,It's it's like AMEED AL-MASRI: 03:31:10>>>,This division is not seem to be fair by Palestinians. And um it's not it's not what they look for. It's not um it's not something that um that actually implements division of a Palestinian of a Palestinian state. I mean um other things being equal this is an obstacle but the situation is other things are not equal. AMEED AL-MASRI: 04:10:08>>>,You have ah you have settlements that is a main source of ah provoking for Palestinians. You have assignations that are continuously taking place. You have um consequent invasions in cities of the West Bank. You have um a complete a complete I mean un recognition of the right of of the right of return for Palestinians to come back one day where they lived once. You have un recognition of Jerusalem to be of any social and to be of any ah social significance or any um historical significance for the, for the Palestinians who are Muslims and Christians as well. I mean Jerusalem itself is is sort of it's of the conflict it's sort of ah it's sort of the struggle. I mean um nobody can just lay Jerusalem aside and then look at things neglecting the fact that Jerusalem is um is part of the whole thing it's part of the whole picture. So um if you're willing to propose a scenario for a good solution for both sides you have to consider that you have to consider all parts of the all parts, all parts of the thing all parts of the picture because each side just happens to um to compliment the other. AMEED AL-MASRI: 06:09:12>>>,And whenever is just complimented just to form this form this um form this combination that forms the shape of a Palestinian state of forms ah forms, forms the shape of a total solution. It's um you have just put everything on the table and talk about everything. Talk about everything in order and um and try to be as fair as can be about a, about a retractor that um about a retractor that um that constitutes the conflict. So um a perfect solution might be in my point of view is the right of return since it's a historical since it's a historical right for Palestinians the way they see it. I think it's impossible to just get all Palestinians out of all the Arab countries all the Arab neighbor counties and just tell them ok you can be in tell Aviv you can be in Natan you can be in Haifa you can be in I don't know what else this is impossible. I mean um you have huge masses. You have more than 5 million Palestinians in these countries you can't just take them and um and just say that ok it's their right I mean let's look for some kind of compromise here. AMEED AL-MASRI: 08:02:00>>>,If they are to return ok they are to return to um to the territories of if to become to be a Palestinian state and um on the other hand you have settlements. I believe that as long as settlements do exist with in the territories of the 1967 this forms a, this forms an obstacle for Palestinians to conceive that conceive that now they have their own state. They feel alienated within their own homes. I mean you live in a village but when you look put to the sky or when you look up to the mountains you see a huge compound of settlements laying there just above your head. That's helping it's not um It's not something you can live with even as an average Palestinian. If we're trying to reach a compromises here we have to to be fair enough for both sides. Jerusalem in an whole is of religious significance for both sides as well. AMEED AL-MASRI: 09:23:09>>>,Um both sides claim and both sides want Jerusalem to be the capital for their own state but there's only one Jerusalem and there's 2 states here. So once again there's an obstacle. Probably a perfect scenario would be that Jerusalem needs need to be operated by the UN or any other international organization that um guarantees the rights for both sides to come to Jerusalem um to form their duty to god just look around and see this, and see the beauty of such city and just appreciate it and share it which is the most important aspect of the story. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 10:33:00>>>,Well it's sort of ironic you know I mean I've been around in the world I've visited different countries within Europe within Asia ah never, never, never that far but um it's really ironic to see that within the same globe within the same world there's people who are living in total harmony who are living in ah in total peace you know. Who have nothing to who have obligations of course. Who have their ah responsibilities of course as well but it's really ironic to see that both settings happen to be in the same mold I mean some people waking up and sleeping with this nightmare over and over again everyday. And to see that actually people who live in peace who don't have to ah to worry who don't have to worry if ah ok if there's gonna be checking point to stop them from going to their work or if there's gonna be ah somebody on the bus who's gonna blow himself you know. AMEED AL-MASRI: 11:46:07>>>,I mean from both sides it's it's really stable. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 11:53:24>>>,I've actually applied um to various universities within Europe the United States and Canada starting last December. That was a point when I decided that ok I realize my potentials and I think that a perfect way to shape this potential is to ah is to get high education and um experience what is it like to be in a western country. What is it like to be in a capital country. What is it supposed to be what is it like to be um in um I a first world country in, in some other side of the world you know just to, to learn as much as I can just try to implement what I learn if in the future I I can be in a position that ah enables me to to do some changes. AMEED AL-MASRI: 13:04:06>>>,So right now I'm working on my ah general management degree at the university of York in Toronto um. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 13:17:01>>>,Right now um right now I'm working on my general management degree at the university of York this is actually my first year. Um I believe that in different circumstances I would have pursued a political science degree but since I had my share of politics already it's hard for me to ah we just live it in the books you know after living it in the street, in my house, in my supermarket down the street it's just as for me it's just taking a break. For future reference I might um I might pursue a degree in political science as well. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 14:31:25>>>,I believe that that was the summer of ah the year of 2000 specifically in July I went to a summer school in Nathana in ah in a small neighborhood called S--- um it was mainly an English summer school in which um most of the students were Jews and I was one of probably 3 or 4 students who are Arabs who came there to get some education with their, with their ah with the other students from Israel. Probably I was the only guy from the West Bank the other came from ah from Nazareth. Came from ah from the cities from the city of Natala itself because we all know that there is Arabs in these cites. They live there as a minority but they but they actually exist. AMEED AL-MASRI: 15:41:16>>>,So it was such and experience for accouterment because you get to know the other side thinks. You get to live with them, you get to sleep with them in the same room. You get to ah you get to talk about everything. You get to ah you get to do all these activities I mean it wasn't strictly an English summer school it was of course we actually had many other activities like um I don't know it was um next to a water park and um it was actually held in a hotel. So you know I've lived this um I've lived this experience with them like next door to me you know I mean I'm in room 911 or 904 and they're in room 905 both together. We wake up in the morning we go have breakfast together, we have lunch together. We ah play soccer together, we go swim together. We ah we attend the same class together. It was such a meaningful experience and it's, it's good to see that what media today had lead us to believe all these over exaggerated stereo types all these over exaggerated views that at the end eventually they're all human they're all human beings I mean there's no such evil. There's no such pure um hatred I mean after all they were 15 years old people as old as I was and and despite the fact the anti fata started 2 months after that I was still in contact with these people I mean I had many friends I had many friends from that event I still have contact with them today. AMEED AL-MASRI: 17:59:10>>>,So doesn't mean that ok if one sad full event came into place that this is the end of the world. No there's space for hope there's always space for harmony. There's always space for 2 people 2 nations 2 countries that can just live from now and forever in peace. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 18:51:20>>>,Ok um. Well that was an experience when I was 15 years old and now I'm becoming 17 this November. I've been in Toronto for longer than 2 months today and it's such an ironic thing but yet it's not it's not weird for me it's not awkward. I mean most of the friends that I have here happen to be Jews. I mean ah probably the neighborhood that I live in is mostly populated by Jewish Russian by um by Jewish people as well but still um it's not this doesn't just it doesn't make it um it doesn't make it INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 20:14:27>>>,Well a stereo type is meant to stimulate your feelings in order to um by different means of course I don't know by pictures by um by news on TV by a whole set of a whole set of means like meant to form a certain picture in your head about somebody. I mean whenever you hear the word Arab probably for some for somebody who's not really familiar with Arabs just the first thing that would pop into his head is probably a camel desert, a woman all in black you know. I mean the concept of stereo type just lays aside all the humanitary aspects of the human it just puts aside um all the aspects about another person. I mean you can't deal with the same you deal with ah with crowds of people form the from, from one point of view you can't just deal ah you can't just deal with them from ah from a certain picture that you formed about em in your head. So um it's really sad that in a world that is become integrated globally, financially ah through communications and um through even economies I mean this whole world is becoming like a global village. This whole world is um is becoming really small all the dimensions are shrink everything is just is just becoming is just becoming um INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 22:26:26>>>,Ok on my first day in campus during the frosh week I was just sitting there in line waiting to get ah waiting to get my ah my undergraduate kit like to participate in all the events during frosh week. And the line up was really big. So I just decided to take a break sit on a bench and wait ah wait for an hour or something like that until there's less people in that line up. So I'm just sitting there and ah I see a bunch of guys just sitting there's a stereo next to them they're playing music. They're ah throwing an American ball around and they have this flag ah which basically um which is basically the flag for their fraternity and I just I wasn't until that moment familiar with the word with the concept fraternity. So I just ah break in and I was like hi guys um what you doing what is this all about like the flag. And then we just started talking and I actually didn't realize that this person that I was talking to for over an hour and a half was a Jew. So he's like what about your background. I was like I'm Palestinian. He was like um impressive I'm a Jew. AMEED AL-MASRI: 23:56:17>>>,I was like um well it's good to hear it I mean what's there's nothing wrong with that we'd been talking so. And ever since I've been hanging around hanging around chilling out with these people and ah we really became like close friends. We play poker together. We go play billiards. Ah we just chill out we talk. Sometimes we talk politics and we get real deep into politics. I mean it's really amazing how these people have some perspective have some really deep perspective I mean the kind of education that they have, the kind of um the kind of um background that they have formed this shape formed this kind of thorns that is not sadly widespread among ah among other people I mean. It was it was good to see that there's someone in front of me who can tolerate the fact that I'm Palestinian and meantime I can tolerate the fact that he's a Jew and we just bonded together. AMEED AL-MASRI: 25:20:21>>>,And um just talking about everything and um just having discussions I don't know about what just just about everything and um we could actually bond we could actually comprehend what each of us was saying and um it was impressive. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 26:28:10>>>,Well this is the actual kind of bonding that we're all seeking for nowadays. Now that the situation is sort of desperate this is the kind of relationship the kind of relationship that we should seek for if we're looking for peace if we're looking for a compromise. What we want is two people from both sides being able to, to comprehend what each say what each side has to say about the struggle. What each side thinks about it. How how they think about. I mean this kind of understanding is like the basis for any kind of solution that is to become in the future fortunately and hopefully. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 27:48:00>>>,There's actually one thing that I would like to add. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 27:51:18>>>,I want to talk a little bit about my family. INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE INTERVIEWER:,INAUDIBLE AMEED AL-MASRI: 28:12:19>>>,My family was ah was of great importance for me to push me towards what I became today. I'd like to thank my father my mother because the way I see them is they're intelligent people though they kind of lived in a close minded society. They still had the kind of spirit that I now have in my blood that I now have in my veins and look forward for everybody like to perceive it and um and live it in their everyday life. It was a recourse road that I had to take and yet they were supportive in everyday and every way and they were always there for me. And um it was really hard to live apart from them during a really sensitive stage of life which is teenager. Don't recall that. Um there has some times that I wouldn't see them for a couple of months or even 3 and um during the last 3 years of my life I didn't them much I didn't see my little sister growing up. And every time I just go back home whenever that is possible I would look into my little sisters eyes I would look into my brother my smallest brother who's 13 now and it and it hurts somehow that I wasn't there like to see them grow up. I mean I would go back and see them talking. I would hear my little sister who's who's 6 years old talking in terms talking things that that sounded um that I heard for the first time. AMEED AL-MASRI: 30:25:00>>>,I mean I was never I was um I wasn't it was sort of a sacrifice that, that I had to ah that I had to give in order to pursue a life of my own but I'm really thankful and god bless them all.
Call for Kosovo Peace / News Conference (1999)
Serbian Orthodox bishops from across the U.S. hold a news conference to call for peace in Kosovo.
TAPE_NUMBER: EF00/0110 IN_TIME: 04:21:09 - 07:28:19 - 10:17:41 LENGTH: 01:53 SOURCES: BBC RESTRICTIONS: No Access UK/CNN/Euro News/Fox/CNBC/Internet FEED: VARIOUS (THE ABOVE TIME-CODE IS TIME-OF-DAY) SCRIPT: Russian/Nat Russian troops are sustaining their attack on the Chechen capital Grozny, despite international pleas for an end to the conflict. The Russians are trying to liberate areas of the capital which are still controlled by Islamic rebels. But in villages already under Russian rule, people talk not of liberation but occupation. The self-styled Russian liberators of this Chechen village are not popular amongst residents. Life was hard here in Asanovskya before the Russians came. Now not only their homes are destroyed, but also their dignity. Pensioner Zena Labrazana was beaten by three Russian soldiers who stormed her flat in search of valuables. SOUNDBITE: (Russian) "They grabbed me by the hair and said they were going to kill me. They threw me against the wall. Blood was pouring out of me like water." SUPER CAPTION: Zena Labrazana, Pensioner Louisa and her children fled here to escape the battle for Grozny. But Asanovskya has proved to be no sanctuary. The house they are living in was recently hit by a Russian missile. SOUNDBITE: (Russian) "We have no money at all we have sold everything. We don't have enough bread and we sleep on the floor. Russia is doing nothing to help us." SUPER CAPTION: Louisa, Refugee from Grozny With no electricity or running water, villagers are forced to venture out in search of drinking water. This family have found a well, others resort to using water from ditches. The children's education has been disrupted. The Russians used the village school as a barracks and made a point of trashing it as they left. Only two classrooms out of eleven are usable, so the pupils attend lessons in shifts. An inevitable lesson they learn is one of hatred and mistrust of their Russian neighbours. SHOTLIST: Asanovskya, Chechnya - 27 January, 2000 1. Various people walking through snowy village 2. Close up woman's face 3. Mid shot woman in bed 4. Camera pans around flat 5. SOUNDBITE : (Russian) Zena Labrazana, Pensioner 6. Various of damaged house 7. SOUNDBITE: (Russian) Louisa, Refugee from Grozny 8. People walking in snow 9. Various people fetching water from well 10. Children playing in snow 11. Broken windows of school 12. School in interior 13. Various children in classes XFA?
1980s NEWS
INTERVIEW CONTINUES: John Schwartz 9:48 those things tug at the American heartstrings, whereas that there might be more present danger in this sort of talk about semiconductors, especially when you consider how popular Mr. Ishihara is in Japan. Peter Peterson 9:57 But let me ask Great Britain was the leading creditor for period. They went through a phase where First they invested in financial instruments. And then they invested abroad, the United States. And second, after the Second World War, became the leading creditor invested abroad, the Europeans were worried about our taking over. What in God's earth did we think the Japanese were going to do when they became the leading creditor? What were they going to do with their money? stuffing in mattresses are what you say. But we railed about being there being the world's largest creditor and our being the largest debtor, and with the American attention span being very limited, somehow that didn't have any meaning. But anybody that thought very long, said, you know, one of the things that happens when you get in debt is other people get your money, and they can do with it, essentially, what others have done with it. So economically, we shouldn't be surprised. Robert Lipsyte 10:50 Well, let's back logically to psychologically, do you think that there's any feeling now that the the Cold War seems to be thawing, and we as a nation, we've always needed to hate somebody? And now that we're probably not going to be hitting the Russians so much anymore? Do we now have to hate the Japanese. And since you're only 32, I'm not going to say hate the Japanese, again. John Schwartz 11:11 The there certainly a case to be made, that what's going on in the media is a is an Arab isation of the Japanese that, that in 1973, the oil embargo whipped up tremendous hatred against all our all our peoples Persians, anyone from the Middle East, and and that was only made worse by the hostage crisis. And that in the Arab countries were portrayed as money rich coming in to steal our resources, and being able to cut us off just by turning off the oil spigot, a lot of the same type of coverage happened. And I would hope that we're reading Oh, I know, I'm going back and reading my 1973 News weeks, and my 1973 New York Times and trying to make sure I don't fall into a lot of the same problems when I write these stories, because there's a danger to be written about. And then the challenge is to write about the danger, express the fears, but don't fall into the Zena phobic swamp that goes with all that. Robert Lipsyte 12:06 What about those fears? Do we have anything to fear? Peter Peterson 12:10 Well, I met last night with a bunch of CEOs at a dinner. And it was interesting to go around the table. I heard something approaching real fear. One executive said they're now spending twice as much on research and development. The Japanese economy is putting more money in plant and equipment, they got two thirds of the robots with 100 million people basically, the 5% of our kids that at the top and math and science are no better than the average in Japanese schools, four to five times as many other kids have taken calculus and computer related courses. So I think there is real concern about Japan assuming being number one and our living standards going down our ability to compete going down. Robert Lipsyte 13:01 Are those real, real fears? Peter Peterson 13:02 Well, they needn't be realized if we get our act together. But one of the problems is we were politically paralyzed, as well as being frightened. And one of the things we mentioned to some Washington people last night, is where are the people in Washington, whether it's the president or the senators of the Congressman, that are saying, Hey, there are real concerns here for our kids and where we're headed, and 10 or 15 years, I would let's make these choices here are what the issues are. But we've kind of been in this happy times mood, where it's bad politics for anybody's suggest that America needs to be to make choices. And I've argued that the biggest competitive weapon the Japanese have and the Germans is they have a long term economic consensus that is focused on the future. And in the 73 oil problem that hit the Japanese far more than it did not. They girded up their loins, increase productivity, improve quality, and they came out, okay. The Germans are endlessly making decisions about their future. But we rhetorically talk about investing in our future. But every time we have to make a choice between giving up something now so we can have more later, our political system seems to be saying, I want it now. So there's very little leadership it seems to make coming out of our political system. And I don't know how that's to blame the voters or the leaders or both. But I really wish that our leadership could somehow define the problem because I think many more Americans than we believe. Then they believe our I've got a feeling in their bones, they look at the streets, they look at their living rooms, they look all around. They hear the products are better, they hear the products are more advanced. I think they're ready for such a message, but our political system has not delivered it in my view. Robert Lipsyte 14:53 Peter Peterson, john Schwarz, thanks so very much for being with us.
AFP-75V 16mm VTM-75V Beta SP
++Russia Blogger
Russian blogger incited religious hatred
Ukraine: concern over dam attack
Chechen Militant
A masked Chechen militant squats on the ground and appears to be assembling a bomb, as a crowd of people sit around him and watch.
Russia Religion Trial - Museum chief on trial for alleged blasphemous art
NAME: RUS RELTRIAL 150604N TAPE: EF04/0620 IN_TIME: 11:22:50:17 DURATION: 00:02:05:18 SOURCES: APTN DATELINE: Moscow - 15 June 2004 RESTRICTIONS: SHOTLIST 1. Wide shot Taganka district court 2. Wide shot supporters outside of court building 3. Mid shot supporters holding posters 4. Sign "Taganka District Court" 5. Mid shot Samodurov arrives for court hearing 6. Wide shot Samodurov takes his place in courtroom 7. Wide shot participants 8. Mid shot prosecutor 9. Cutaway Russian emblem 10. Mid shot judge walks into courtroom 11. Wide shot judge sits down 12. Cutaway policemen 13. Samodurov approaches press 14. SOUNDBITE (Russian) Yuri Samodurov, defendant: "The religious organisations and the church, I think, have a right of censorship of those works of art that are meant for the churches. But the rest is anti-constitutional, it is outside the framework of the state, of our constitution." 15. Cutaway believers 16. SOUNDBITE (Russian) Yuri Schmidt, defence lawyer: "All the accused are not guilty, they did not break the law, they only exercised their constitutional right. And, above all, they did not intend to insult anybody nor incite any hatred." 17. Wide shot Taganka District Court STORYLINE A prominent Russian human rights advocate and two other defendants went on trial on Tuesday for organising an allegedly blasphemous exhibit. Yuri Samodurov and two others organised the controversial January 2003 exhibit called "Caution, Religion" at the Sakharov Museum, which was founded to promote democracy and human rights as championed by the late Soviet dissident and Nobel Peace Prize winner Andrei Sakharov. The exhibited works by about 40 artists included a Russian Orthodox-style icon with a hole instead of a head where visitors could insert their faces and picture themselves as God. There was also a Coca-Cola logo against the usual red background, but with Jesus' face drawn next to it and the words "This is my blood". Samodurov, who manages the Moscow museum, faces up to five years in prison and a fine of up to 500-thousand rubles (17-thousand US dollars) if found guilty of inciting religious hatred. Lyudmila Vasilovskaya, who also works at the museum, and artist Anna Mikhalchuk also face charges. More than a dozen activists gathered outside the Taganka district courthouse as the trial began, holding banners saying "No to the Inquisition". All three defendants pleaded innocent. Talking to journalists, Samodurov said that it was anti-constitutional for the exhibit to censor art outside of religious institutions. Yuri Schmidt, one of the defence lawyers, said the defendants did not break the law and did not intend to offend anybody. He told the court that the charges were so vague, it was impossible to answer them, explaining that the accusations failed to pinpoint which art works incited religious hatred and against whom and why. The musuem has claimed the trial is punishment for its long campaign against the war in Chechnya, which Russian troops have fought for most of the past decade. Four days after its opening in 2003, the exhibit was vandalised. The six perpetrators were detained and charged with hooliganism, but after a publicity campaign conducted by a Russian Orthodox priest, the charges were dropped. About two-thirds of Russia's 144 (m) million people are considered Orthodox Christians. After decades of state-sponsored atheism, destroyed churches have been rebuilt and many Russians have embraced the Church and its rituals. However, the dominance of the Russian Orthodox Church and its centuries-old ties to the state have prompted concern among religious minorities. Some professed atheists claim that religious symbolism is as omnipresent and oppressive as atheism was in Soviet times. Russia's lower house of parliament has petitioned the prosecutor-general's office "to take the necessary measures" against the exhibit organisors.
State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher says the department is condemning the violence in Macedonia saying a political solution is needed. Boucher also discussed the anti-Semitic comments made by Syrian officials calling them "regrettable."
PET-201 1 inch
Shimon Peres Interview
01:26:30>>>INTERVIEWER: There was a time when it papered that Yasser Arafat was a suitable partner for peace. What do you think went wrong? How did we come to the point now where we do not have that situation?,01:27:02>>>SHIMON PERES: Basically Arafat when he was the head of the Palestine revolution he has had head of the collation of armed groups with him. The moment he became the head of the autonomy we discovered that he's not able to make the shift. To be the head of the revolution is one thing. To be the head of the state is another thing to be the head of the state is another thing. PartiCUlarly the softest point was that he didn't understand that by just disarming the Fata, his party, and letting the other party carry arms it underCUt his own authority. It's either him controlling them or them controlling him. and they stopped taking orders from them. so even if he would like to CUt the terror he couldn't without disarming first the terrorist, the terrorists groups. Now Arafat ah made some contributions in the beginning quite courageous but then he emerged as an extremely weak leader of a state in being. And that's the greatest problem. ,01:51:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Was this a failure of his character or personality?,02:51:09>>>SHIMON PERES: It was, he became a victim of his habits. Because how they ran a revolution. you have this little bit money in brown envelopes. There was no rules and no regulations. you all the time negotiating with the other groups how to act terroristically. You don't have a separation of responsibilities between the legislative, the judicial and the exeCUtive. Everything is mixed. Then it's full of conspiracies. Then you have one leader. And all these habits that he's acquired during 30 years of his leadership he couldn't get rid of them. now I talked with him at great lengths about it and I told him look at Bangolia. He was also a head of ah, armed group not only but also in order to achieve independence for the Jewish. The minute he became head of the state he says no room for any other armed group but Daganah, which was the official armed group. And he went as far as ordering to shoot at the ship that brought arms to Israel and killing 20 people Jewish because they didn't take the orders. I told him if you want, if you won't do it you don't have a future. I told many times to Arafat. I think he was suspicious that I'm trying you know to introduce a division between me, him and the other parties because his reply was I shall disarm them politically. In the elections of 1996 after the assignation of Isaac Rabin another wave of terror started. I replaced Rabin as you know. and I did things which were very controversial in the eyes of the Israelis and very important in the eyes of the Palestinians. I handed over 460 villages to the Palestinians. 6 cities. And able to have elections including in Jerusalem. They praised and appreciate. All of a sudden they started to explode ah to explode bombs in ah Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv and in Ashkiranash. Arafat are you crazy with all the reactions what are you doing?,05:21:25>>>SHIMON PERES: And in the beginning again he tried to convince the Hamas to stop it that you had to stop it without any effect. Finally when he saw that the situation was really becoming very severe he went to fight the Hamas. And he killed 20 of the Hamas leaders. He arrested thousands. He discovered the cashes of arms there are gifts and terror went down but the person who INAUDIBLE was Netanyahu who replaced me. I lost the elections because he didn't do it in time. I lost with 1/3 of a percent. Netanyahu won because Arafat waked up too late.,06:07:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What did he gain from it from doing all this?,06:07:19>>>SHIMON PERES: He didn't gain anything he lost. I was told that he was crying after he heard the results of the elections.,06:20:10>>>INTERVIEWER: And why do you think he did not accept what was offered to him at Camp David?,06:20:20>>>SHIMON PERES: First of all I think Camp David was not conducted with great wisdom. Barak and Arafat sat at the same place for 15 days. And Barak spoke with Arafat for ½ and hour. In the eyes of the Palestinians, not only the Palestinians Palestine is a very matter. And you feel like somebody's snubbing you. It's not very, it's not done in negotiations. In negotiations you don't negotiate just about points. You negotiate about relations. And if you win too much you may loose your partner. That was one thing. And then as far as I'm concerned those negotiating with Arafat some of my friends never take Arafat yes for an answer. I learn not to take his no for an answer. I'm never impressed by his no's. ,07:19:02>>>SHIMON PERES: I remember when we were negotiating in Cairo the whole night chaired Mubarak. In the morning when it came to the sign the maps Arafat said I'm not signing. In front of all the television. It was a scandal. It was a shame. And Arafat approached him and they didn't I'm not going to quote how he called him and he told him sign. What happened is Arafat took out the pen and signed. That's another thing. But there is a third point which we shouldn't forget. And I told it to Barak before. Barak demanded that Arafat will announce that after the agreement he will have no claims anymore. The minute (COUGH OFF SCREEN). The minute he says he raised two impossible issues at the time the issue of Jerusalem and the issue of refuges and bought it to the central of the disCUssion and we knew that we can not reach an agreement. ,08:18:15>>>SHIMON PERES: If Arafat should declare he doesn't have anymore claims it means he has to turn his back to the Palestinian refuges. Something that he cannot do. and I thought you don't have to buy from the other party all the dreams and all the demands. Let things hang in there. (COUGH OFF SCREEN). But all told Arafat committed a terrible mistake by rejecting the proposals of Clinton and Barak despite what they have said. And he's not paying the price for this rejection. ,09:04:15>>>INTERVIEWER: If you could compare him to King Hussein what kind of a peace partner was King Hussein?,09:04:23>>>SHIMON PERES: King Hussein wanted peace and he was a responsible negotiator for peace. But here let me say in a wider sense historically speaking. There are 2 ½ million Palestinians here in the territories. There are another 3 ½ million Palestinians that close the door on their leader, on the King on the throne. And they might, some people say you cant not (COUGH OFF SCREEN) make peace with the Palestinians. And I'm asking myself why do we have peace with the Palestinians in trans Jordan in the kingdom of Jordan. You know there are 2 cities close to each other Elad and Dakab maybe a few miles INAUDIBLE. During the 54 years of the existence of the stated of Israel not a single bullet was fired from one city to another city. There's the piece of land between the Red and the Dead Sea almost 120, 130 miles long without fences, without INAUDIBLE, without infiltrators. (COUGH OFF SCREEN) There Jordanians don't permit ah terrorist coming from Jordan into Israel. There are no suicidal bombers. Why is that? those are the same people. Why those 2 ½ million people decided to live peace with us and these 3 ½ million people are in revolt, in terror, in violence, in bitterness. ,10:45:07>>>SHIMON PERES: There are 2 differences. One is that in Jordan they have an organized government. Doesn't hang upon the whim of a single man. The have one army not 12 armies like the Palestinian side. They have one treasurer they don't have several treasurers. They have one commander in chief and not many commanders of chief. And I'd say certainly it's not a complete democracy they are far from it but there is separation between their legislative and judicial and ah exeCUtive branches. The Palestinians don't have it. So they brought in a INAUDIBLE and they live in a CUltic state. There was nobody in charge in spite of all the authorities. The other thing which we have to take into consideration too. We don't dominate any piece of land in Jordan. At the early times of Zionism Jabatinisky said the 2 banks of the Jordan river belongs to us the east and the west. Thanks heavens they gave up half to their program because if you would put settlements across the Jordan river we would create an INAUDIBLE there as well. So we have to correct those 2 mistakes. And I'm speaking objectively. To force the Palestinians to have a reformed government. And to enable us to retreat from the territories.,12:52:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Of course people have spoken about the settlements here as a problem. If there were no settlements do you believe that there would be peace between Israel and the Palestinians?,12:52:27>>>SHIMON PERES: It would help a great deal. It would be very different situation undoubtedly. I use saying you know you can break eggs and make an omelet. But you can not make from omelet eggs again. Too many eggs were broken and now we have to find a solution. The most aCUte situation clearly is in the Gaza strip. When I was Defense Minister in 1974 the population of Gaza was 350 thousand people. Today there are 1 million 200 thousand people. Almost four times as many. The size of the land is petit. It's 220 miles. It has the density, maybe the most densified piece of land in the world. It's a 5.2 rate of birth. Every 12 births they will double themselves. We have not 7,000 settlers in Gaza. 7,000 vis a vis 1 million 200 thousand. We are forced to close it for security reasons. They are closed so they don't work. They don't work they are very close to suffer starvation. What do we need to see them. and we have an alternative land prepared for those settlers in-between the southern tip of Gaza and Kidisberna which is on the border which Egypt. There's no sense to sit in the middle of this populated and bitter piece of land.,15:37:00>>>INTERVIEWER: He said that there's a demographic time bomb ticking in Israel and that even if Gaza's returned and even if the West Bank is returned there will still be a problem with the many Palestinians or Israeli Arabs that live here. In the long run is it possible for Israel to be true to its ideals while at the same time remaining a democracy with one person one vote?,15:37:20>>>SHIMON PERES: I think yes because you see the rate of birth depends upon the standard of living. The poorer the people are rate of birth is higher. And poor people produce many children and their many children produce more poverty. It's a vicious circle. You know we have here in, among the Palestinians two communities the Muslim and the Christian. The Christian community is well off better than the Muslims. So naturally their rate of birth went down. Because when you're poor you don't care how many children you have. All of them will be hungry. But you are becoming better off you want to invest more in every child than to invest in more children. So this there is while societies are imbalancing themselves. And also what happened is you see the size of a family in previous times say 50 or 100 years ago with 8 or 9 children. In many countries such a large number of children was a product of their medical situation because 3 or 4 passed away. So they would remain with 4 or 5 children. Today with an improved medicine the whole family remains alive. And the family's incapable to feed so many children. So I mean there is logic in demography as well. Geography is immobile. Demography is mobile and it is based not only upon a piece of land but also upon a piece of logic. ,17:35:00>>>INTERVIEWER: There's also religion, religion influences demography?,17:35:12>>>SHIMON PERES: Yes and no because religion too is changing you see. I'm not a great believer in the theory of hunting to an INAUDIBLE crash among civilizations. I'd rather believe there was a crash within every civilization. Namely adaptation of your determined religion with the changing epochs. I mean you can not compare the all you see today with what it was in the medieval time with the inquisition. You can not say to the pope of today he's like the pope in the 15th or 14th century. Now what changed Christianity the Muslims they choose no. they develop in time. you know the Russians were educating their children to be communists. All of a sudden communist fall down. What make it fall down? American intervention the European intervention. Again the intervention of a new age. And now we approach INAUDIBLE and the Muslims they can not remain with old habits in a totally different era. And I believe we shall see changes., ,19:38:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You are seen as a great statement among people in the United states, among Jewish community and the community at large. And at one time you had a vision as a center in the middle east the center. This dream seems so far away today what would you say to people today in this country and elsewhere who have given up hope for peace?,19:38:28>>>SHIMON PERES: That's a INAUDIBLE people they give up, they give they gave up for peace too early. Maybe we are today close to realize this vision more than ever before. I didn't say that Israel will become a center. I thought Israel should have the middle east enter (COUGH OFF SCREEN) the new age. Because today most of the political problems are being solved economically. Europe was living in hatred and blood for a thousand. And 3 years Europe changed in spite of all their memories and all their education. What John Monet did for the future of Europe is much more than napoleon did for INAUDIBLE past. What changed Europe is the economy not the wars. And the same thing goes now for china. If you ask me what is the greatest achievement of high technology I would say china. They're changing the face of china. And they said time has come for the middle east to change as well. To go from the old bitterness of wars about territory to the new horizon of economic, scientific and technological cooperation. I wrote a book it's called the New Middle East. It was criticized very much among the Arabs. One day the president of Egypt invited me and says Shimon time has come that you will listen to your critics. And in short they said look you are trying to dominate the Arab economy under the cover of having a new middle east.,19:20:25>>>SHIMON PERES: I told him gentlemen there is no Arab economy there is Arab poverty. Who wants to govern poverty. What for? Toady poverty is national and affluence is global. And unless you come in the global arena and open up, open your borders, open your skies let the objectivity of science. The promise of technology(COUGH OFF SCREEN) play it's free role then you'll save your children. You'll save the land from becoming desert and your children from becoming beggars. ,22:09:50>>>INTERVIEWER: Do you see any Arab leader who will be a hypothetical peace partner should that opportunity come?,22:10:01>>>SHIMON PERES: The leaders on the horizon are our leaders of yesterdays. The new leaders are unseen you don't know who they were who they are. Would you know who did produce the change in ah Russia it was unseen people. Or who did it china or did it in Europe. Jean Monet was an economist not even a general. And I believe that this is a confrontation not among politicians. And among religions and not upon economies. It is if you want a confrontation between two generations the outgoing generation that refuses to leave the scene and the incoming generation that doesn't have yet enough strength to take over. ,24:03:50>>>INTERVIEWER: I have no doubt that these people exist but there are young people that see Israel as facing the greatest threat of its survival since the creation of the state. Some blame us, some blame the Arabs in general some don't know what to say but they seem so pessimistic and when we travel it seems like we've gone back into time. the roads are full of holes. The Arabs seemed terrified. They seem passive, resigned and hopeless. It seems we've gone so far can we really see any hope when people feel so threatened on both sides?,24:04:10>>>SHIMON PERES: 100% around the INAUDIBLE doubt about it. ,24:12:05>>>INTERVIEWER: About what?,24:12:11>>>SHIMON PERES: About the change coming you know usually the future is in minority but it's a winning minority (COUGH OFF SCREEN) because it is the future. In a few weeks or so there will begun, begin the great confrontation between the world of terrorism and the world of INAUDIBLE of peace. In the 20th century the main confrontation was with the Communists, the Nazi's, the Fascists. Each of them has had a country behind them, an army behind them. terrorism is a new phenomena. It's more a protest then ideology without rules, without cords, without merits, without values. And there wild and a dangerous and you can also see that a poor country economically can be a rich country militarily. They can have modern arms and so on and so forth. So the free world doesn't have a choice but to bring an end to terror and terrorism. If communism and ah nazism was in Europe terrorism is in the Middle East. And now you see in the Middle East the great confrontation between people that want to enter a plane and be sure that they will arrive to their target. That they can walk in the street, attend a coffee, drink fresh water. So the changes in the Middle East are by far closer than we think.,25:55:17>>>SHIMON PERES: And you will see in the coming 5 to 10 years the great confrontation between these 2 civilizations, if you want, the civilization of terror without respect for human life, without any rational approach, without reference to the changes in our time and forces that will come not only from the outside but also from within the Arab world. Within the Muslim world. Not to do a favor to anybody but to save themselves from the agonies and cost of mistakes. ,26:41:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Will they have the courage to do so?,26:41:07>>>SHIMON PERES: They don't have a choice you know. courage also comes when you don't have a choice. What are they going to do remain backward poor, hated, isolated, a target for attacks and blames. ,27:08:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Will there be among the Palestinians people who say they don't have a choice?,27:08:10>>>SHIMON PERES: Yes few day, few weeks ago the number 2 man in the autonomy Abu Mazaum stood back, stood up and says we have to CUt the INAUDIBLE. It's a tragedy. it's a catastrophe for the Palestinian people. And INAUDIBLE and so are many of the people who may say publicly one thing but privately they know exactly what's happening. And they know that the Palestinians are paying an impossible cost. ,28:19:50>>>INTERVIEWER: Yesterday we spoke with Hamed Qatari who is a Hamas leader. he was one of the 450 people who came back. He and other people that we spoke with said that they will fight this till the last man, woman and child to regain Palestine. I'm sure this is all very familiar to you.,28:20:05>>>SHIMON PERES: What, what would you expect them to say. ,28:20:10>>>INTERVIEWER: INAUDIBLE,28:23:13>>>SHIMON PERES: That's normal when there is a confrontation and each party is blaming the other party. People are talking and exaggerated and inflamed language. ,28:39:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Don't you feel the fundalism is growing stronger?,28:39:07>>>SHIMON PERES: I think the fundalism is a problem for the Palestinians not less than for us. They destroy the Palestinian position. If Arafat lost in the eyes of the United States and Europe it's because of them not because of us. Because they paint him in an impossible posture and he doesn't know who to escape.,29:21:00>>>INTERVIEWER: What message would you give to the American people? The people out there who are yearning for peace as they look at this?,29:21:10>>>SHIMON PERES: I mean there is no escape but to fight terror. You can not run away from it. Let's not forget it is not the United States that has initiated the war against terror. It is the terrorist who have initiated the war against the United States. And they don't intend to stop. Mach Magandi once said that when a cat is chasing a mouse there is no sense for a mouse to suggest it is frail because it has nothing to do with strategy it has to do with nature. The United States was forced actually in a fight of self defense. And nobody should see it differently. It's not a fight against a religion or against a nation it's a fight against a menace which brings untold catastrophes to the Palestinians and the Arabs and the Muslims themselves. So I think the United States is right and justified. a combination between a dictator and nuclear is a terrible situation. If Hitler had a nuclear bomb in 1939 I don't know where the world would stand. And eventually all other nations will join the United States. I thought it will be even quicker than that because United States always came to the side of Europe. To the side of all the INAUDIBLE the communism, or generals or whatever it is. And they sacrificed the live of their boys. And they won the war and they didn't keep anything for themselves. Now America is attacked. You may expect that the rest will behave likewise historically. , ,31:07:25>>>SHIMON PERES: The second point I want to say is that we are really identified with the United States but differently from all other allies United States has had or is having. We never asked American soldiers to sacrifice their lives to defend Israel. Some of the Europe counties who criticize the United States are having American soldiers defending their land. We never created this situation where an American mother should be worried because her boy's in Israel defending the state of the Jewish. No we shall do it ourselves. The same goals and America helped us which I shall never forget in arms, in political support, in understanding, in financing yes but not in blood and not in dangers. The same goes now for peace. While I'm sure the United States will support the peace process it is for Israel to take the imitative. We shouldn't sit and wait until the Americans take the initiative no. it is our responsibility. We are not running to the United States. United States shouldn't run the process of peace it should support it and they will support it. And I think the sooner the better. Any postponement is a mistake. I believe today the United States is really concerned about the Iranian problem and the terroristic problem. So we shouldn't wait until this problem will be solved. We have to start the peace process on our own. ,32:57:00>>>SHIMON PERES: For the simple reason you can not and you shouldn't fight terrorist without fighting terrorism. What I mean by the reasons for terror. You should give hope to the other side not only to yourself. I mean we can't have the Palestinian cooperation they wont be our collaborators. They will be our party if they gonna have reasons for it. They will never serve us. They will never take orders from us. But if they will see that we are really sincere and peaceful and concerned about them as well and we suggest to CUt a deal which is fair and reasonable historically and other wise we should be able to make.,33:51:15>>>INTERVIEWER: But didn't we give them a fair deal?,33:51:19>>>SHIMON PERES: Suppose it wasn't successful so what so we shall try again. You don't divorce history. And you don't use disappointment as your teacher. You'll try it maybe we also committed mistakes and I think we did some. Now the problem is not it's not a baseball match to decide who's the winner. What we have is to create a new ground for our living. You see in war there is no alternative to victory. In peace there is no alternative to compromise. And now that 3 politicians nothing works ever. Nobody likes compromises but you can not have a coexistence without compromise.,34:48:00>>>INTERVIEWER: You'll try again but INAUDIBLE?,34:48:09>>>SHIMON PERES: No no I'm told you, I told you. I see the 3 ½ million people Palestinians who live across the river and are tied to old lessons and there were times also with them we were at war. We were at war with Egypt. We were at war with Jordan. There were times that we mistook. There were times they mistook. Well we can not make mistake and exCUse.,35:24:10>>>INTERVIEWER: That's on their side and now you have more than 200 thousand settlers. How will the country survive this civically?,35:24:20>>>SHIMON PERES: well there were some proposals. There were 2 or 3 proposals . one is concentrate all the settlements on a small piece of land in the West Bank. 3 or 4 percent and have a small, give the Palestinians 2 or 3 percent, 4 percent somewhere else. That's one solution. Another solution can be as there are Arabs living under non Arab government INAUDIBLE living under non Jewish government. This is different from war. You can not say lets have peace which is an extension of war. Doesn't make sense. Peace is a departure not an extension.,36:25:00>>>INTERVIEWER: Everything you say is so logical and beautiful why can't we have your vision implemented?,36:25:07>>>SHIMON PERES: People are angry and disappointed for good reasons. There is terror and violence and mistrust and dissolutions whatever you want. I agree. But if I can suggest a lesson I learned in my life that you can not a, achieve anything which is big without big disappointments and disillusions and troubles. And you think it's the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. And to do something big requires a great effort, a great determination. And face the disillusions with the same determination that you're facing the INAUDIBLE. And that's what we have to do. ,22:37:50>>>B-Roll pictures (no sound) END OF INTERVIEW
8 p.m.: [June 2, 2023 broadcast]