1970S TELEVISION SHOWS
INTERVIEW CONCLUDES:
David Susskind
Do the police know you?
'Joey'
Oh yeah.
David Susskind
Do they know you're a killer?
'Joey'
Oh yeah. Of couse. No, you don't underestimate the police. I mean, they got their people they got their performance they know what you're doing. Your bookmaker they know it. you're a hit man they know it. They know who you are.
David Susskind
Do you pay off the police
'Joey'
when I'm book Making sure on when I got a numbers thing going kinda I can operate as I paid them off.
David Susskind
How does the payoff work?
'Joey'
Well it depends on what kind of an operation you got a few bookmaker and you got phones you pay so much per phone. If you got a
David Susskind
who do you pay? a cop on the beat?
'Joey'
no no, no, no no you pay you pay somebody that's in Division. Or you paid somebody to borrough. generally or it's got something most guys go right into the commissioner's office. And then you pay so much per phone. if you have men on the street on a numbers thing you pay so much per man
David Susskind
How many phones have you had working?
'Joey'
Well, biggest office I was ever in we had six phones
David Susskind
and what were you paying per phone?
'Joey'
$2,000 A month per phone
David Susskind
2000 A month per phone
'Joey'
right
David Susskind
12,000 a month?
'Joey'
That's correct.
David Susskind
In cash,
'Joey'
C A S H
David Susskind
delivered to the
'Joey'
No guy comes around you know that's why that's that's where that word bag man comes from? Because he's because he carries his little black bag and whatever they owe he sticks in his pocket
David Susskind
if a raid is coming will they call the head
'Joey'
Oh yeah. We'll call them have they pick up one of our men? They let us know.
David Susskind
Right so the police know all about you
'Joey'
Oh sure.
David Susskind
And they would know all about the 38 murders.
'Joey'
I'm pretty sure of the ones that I've done. They just can't prove
David Susskind
Have you been called in on all the ones you have done
'Joey'
I've been called in on 17 besides the one besides the three I was acquitted.
David Susskind
Did they seem anxious to solve them
'Joey'
not really that anxious they will do they harrass you, hassle you for maybe about an hour or two they look you guys got something on me, booked me if not
David Susskind
Is there a payoff to get out
'Joey'
No way, you just pick up and walk away so you guys don't miss it. I call my lawyer
David Susskind
Joey Why are you doing this television show?
'Joey'
Oh, I wrote a book. And I like I want to publicize the book.
David Susskind
Isn't your life in jeopardy?
'Joey'
Suer it is. Thye know who I am, I'm dead. But unlike a lot of guys, I'm not a stool pigeon. I didn't get up before any committees made a name any names and put anybody in the joint?
David Susskind
And why would you run the risk of getting killed to publicize a book
'Joey'
Because I think it's time that the public found out that they and they can't outlaw what people want. I don't care how you try it. You can do everything I have done has stemmed from the fact that it was outlawed to begin with by people. That's why do you think there are so many people in this business because of the money that's there. And this could all be legitimized
David Susskind
gambling, you're talking about
'Joey'
gambling, prostitution, even narcotics, you if you take the hard thing narcotics, which repulses everybody who makes an addict, he makes himself. So now you got an addict. Right? Now, the guy is illegal, because he's illegal. If he sells it is illegal. If a user is illegally possessed, the take the service guy has got to go out and steal in order to get the money to go have it. Now if you legalize narcotics, he goes to a hospital gets a shot. This guy goes to work. You don't have to steal. That's number one.
David Susskind
You've run narcotics in
'Joey'
I've brought them in from Mexico. Yeah.
David Susskind
How'd you do that?
'Joey'
I used to tape them to the rim of a wheel inside the wheel and put the tire back over to bring an eight kilos at a time.
David Susskind
Did they ever take the wheels off the car?
'Joey'
I had the car searched. They pulled the wheel off the car, but they never took the tire off the wheel. Okay, it was the closest I ever come.Then after that I had carte blanche to drive back and forth. Look, I own the place.
David Susskind
Made a lot of money doing that.
'Joey'
I made a hell of a lot of money doing it.
David Susskind
Why did you quit?
'Joey'
Why did I quit? Because it ran out of work before it died
David Susskind
Why didn't you go into the narcotic business with somebody else?
'Joey'
I wasn't that interested
David Susskind
you were making big money?
'Joey'
Yeah, I was doing alright. I don't complain. See, I'm funny. Like, I work I like a guy was working for man. He's dead now. Dragna he was good to me. I worked for him. He was good to me. And he had things going. Everything's fine. When he died. It was a big scramble for who won and who does that and everything. And nobody know which way was up. You know, they're all playing playing a game, you know, about what their end was going to be in what your room was going to be. And the way they work it is it should have won yet. Whatever stuck to the ceiling was yours. And I need these guys.
David Susskind
When Dragna died, what did you do?
'Joey'
I moved around a while I had some money and I wasn't really interested. Then I did a few odds and ends. And then I had a couple of contracts that I took care of.
David Susskind
Hijacking
'Joey'
No wasn't I Hijacking and I had no I had a couple of hit contracts that he did. And the insurance
David Susskind
contract is 20,000 A year 20,000 A shot 20,000 A shot and you've done 35 shots correct professional?
'Joey'
Well, roughly. I mean, it wasn't always 20 You know, 20,000 went up you know as time went by
David Susskind
go up depending on how important the man
'Joey'
no it went up and depending on what the price was, you know, like, it started out like for a while for a long time. The price was 10 grand. And the price or one day I turned around the price is double.
David Susskind
You do hits today.
'Joey'
If the Price is right? Yeah.
David Susskind
And what else skyjacking
'Joey'
No no sky Jack. Jack, it's not my life out. hiJack. hijacking. yeah, I've hijack some trucks. had merchandise I could dispose of very quickly
David Susskind
and you're into pornographic pornography here. You're selling movies.
'Joey'
Yeah. Yeah, there's a market for number one thing, my friend. And I want without you. There's no me.And by you, I don't mean you, per se. I mean you the public. Because the public didn't want it. We couldn't sell it.The public didn't want to make a bet we couldn't book the public than one character. We couldn't sell it. The public didn't want to borrow money, we couldn't lend it.
David Susskind
And also you couldn't do any of this without the act of cooperation. The police,
'Joey'
correct and politicians. What I am saying is this, a lot of the things that we are into, can be legalized. And the money derived from this could all but eliminate all your sales taxes. And not only that, but you could build your schools and your hospitals and your roads and you don't have enough money left over to take care of all the people that are on welfare. You have any idea of the kind of money I'm talking about? The only idea was bet in this city. alone every year.
David Susskind
How much
'Joey'
$20 billion a year is bet in this city. Now you got to figure we keep at least 15% of that.
David Susskind
How do you know these figures? H
'Joey'
Hey I've had offices I've been in offices. I used to I show you guys they think not about betting 5, 10 $1,000 at a ballgame. 1000 across on a horse and they get the money right I can show I can break it down from your $2 bet at a $10,000 better. This city is full of them and every city is full of them. Remember one thing about a gamble. He will go anywhere to have his game. You can you can write laws against it. They've done it. What does it proved?
David Susskind
You gamble?
'Joey'
Sure I do. I'm a big gamble anybody? I blow most of my money again but I enjoy gambling.
David Susskind
Do you take drugs?
'Joey'
Nope. Never take them drug in my life.
David Susskind
You have any other bad habit besides gambling and killing
'Joey'
broads
David Susskind
Broads? You say in your book that women find you irresistible
'Joey'
no I didn't say they find
David Susskind
They find you sexually very attractive
'Joey'
they find they find the fact that what I do attractive
David Susskind
you tell them what you do
'Joey'
no like I like I'll give you an example. At a party one time if they had been acquitted. I was introduced to this girl who will certainly come from one of your better families. Right? She couldn't wait to jump into bed with me
David Susskind
because you were a killer
'Joey'
That's correct.
David Susskind
That's somehow allured her
'Joey'
yeah to her
David Susskind
it was she just stunning exception. or a lot of women,
'Joey'
no when broads find that you deal in violence and control violence, as I call it. The fact that they know that you've taken a life or you they know that you do this or you have no compunction about this. It has a strange fascination. Don't ask me what it is. I don't know.
David Susskind
How long does the fascination last?
'Joey'
I don't know but what you two or three times and all of a sudden they look up they say what the hell am I
David Susskind
Okay, now you're on the show. And you run into serious danger with your life.
'Joey'
Well, I'm hoping that with a little luck, I won't I won't get lucky.
David Susskind
Why is it worth the candle just to sell some copies of your book
'Joey'
No, it's not that. To me. It's worth it. What I want to do is I want to I think it's time that we came out of the closet. I think it's time that I'm sick and tired of seeing headlines of the mob this the mob that because everything we do can be legitimate. And I think it's time that it was
David Susskind
wise to legitimized you'd be out of business.
'Joey'
Yeah I would really be out of business. I could Always find something in the industry to do because it would be legitimate. But you can't let the politicians have it. I think it's time that the public got the benefit out of it. The public. The public is the biggest suckers that ever lived. You run the rod every day up one side and down the other by the legitimate man by us on a we and then we give them a better break.
David Susskind
You're very well organized
'Joey'
extremely with one thing we don't have any union problems. We don't really have to worry about retirement dues. pensions,
David Susskind
no strikes
'Joey'
no strikes. well more efficiently than any organization you can think of.
David Susskind
You think you're better organized and General Motors.
'Joey'
Hell yes.
David Susskind
Federal Government
'Joey'
right. We don't have no waste. We don't have we don't we don't type things up in triplicate.
David Susskind
you've scored one there. I'll be right back in one minute.