FILE PKG ON THE EPCOT RIDE DEATH LAST MONTH. LITTLE LINDA BAKER COLLAPSED DURING THE SIMULATOR RIDE "BODY WARS" AT EPCOT CENTER. DISNEY OFFICIALS SAY THERE IS NO INDICATION THE RIDE WAS TO BLAME.

Japanese Campaign for Hankow, Part 2 (same as 2025-A, better qual)

BG MATERIAL FOR A CS ON A PALM BEACH, FLORIDA PROGRAM DESIGNED TO PROTECT CHILDREN FROM PASSIVE INHALATION OF CRACK COCAINE. 00:00:42 INTV/W CRACK ADDICT NANCY MAJORS WHOSE THREE CHILDREN WERE TEMPORARILY CONFISCATED BY THE STATE AFTER HER SEVEN MONTH OLD DAUGHTER WAS FOUND DEAD WITH TRACES OF COCAINE IN HER URINE. 00:15:23 INTVS WITH MAJORS' GRANDMOTHER AND COUSIN. CI: PERSONALITIES: MAJORS, NANCY. HEALTH: DRUG ABUSE.

Video footage from the KXAS-TV/NBC station in Fort Worth, Texas.

Reel 4. <br/> <br/>01:50:26 C/U of Winston Churchill making a speech into radio microphone. He announces when hostilities will end. Pan of huge crowd of people gathered (in Trafalgar Square?) Crowd cheer and wave. (Possibly chanting - "We want Winnie...") Churchill on Buckingham Palace balcony with the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth (later Queen Mother) and Princesses Margaret and Elizabeth (later Queen Elizabeth II). <br/> <br/>01:51:20 Far East - troops in Burma. Troops march with carts of supplies drawn by water buffalo. British Servicemen - young soldier by a washing line is given a letter. Shirt less soldiers vote in a makeshift voting booth. Polling Station. Soldiers and civilians enter polling booths. A policeman places ballot box on the table. Crowds outside at night as the results come in. Churchill leaves 10 Downing St. <br/> <br/>01:52:08 L/S of Winston Churchill painting a landscape under a parasol. Churchill at London Zoo holding out a piece of meat on a stick for his own lion who grabs it through the bars and walks away with it. Churchill at the races - C/U of him wearing top hat and of his racehorse. M/S of Churchill making a speech at Fulton, Missouri in America about peace and international co-operation. L/S and C/U of Churchill speaking at the Council of Europe on the same theme. C/U of newspaper headlines about election results. Churchill and Clementine walk up some steps - going to the poll at Woodford. They stand in front of barrage of microphones. Prime Minister once more, he waits for the arrival of Queen Elizabeth II as she returns from Kenya after the tragic death of her father. Plane arrives, Queen Elizabeth II disembarks. She shakes hands with Churchill and other dignitaries. Churchill poses while a young boy takes his photograph. <br/> <br/>01:54:57 Westminster Abbey - coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. Winston Churchill wears the robes of a Knight of the Garter. Country house in Kent - christening of one of Churchill's grandchildren. Churchill pets the baby. C/U of the child. At No. 10 Downing Street celebrating his 80th birthday. Churchill and his wife look through their telegrams. Retirement in Westminster Hall. Churchill makes a speech. "..I am now nearing the end of my journey..." Queen Elizabeth II visits Churchill for dinner. He bows and shakes her hand and that of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh as they leave 10 Downing Street. The Churchill's go back inside. L/S of Chartwell. Churchill closes some windows and gives the V for Victory sign as he does so. <br/> <br/>Note: See documentation file for shot lists, commentaries etc. See record "Churchill the Man - Commonwealth Version - record i" for credits. <br/> <br/>Retrospective film tracing the life and achievements of Sir Winston Churchill. Images are the same as non-commonwealth version but commentary differs slightly with mentions of commonwealth military forces. Reel 1. May be slight different in soundtrack over section at Cranwell where narrator mentions commonwealth recruits to the services. Reel 2. "Britain, with the help of her friends overseas..." Reel 3. "the enemy had been swept our of Africa with the help of Australian, New Zealand, South African and Indian forces." Reel 4. Fighting in Far East - nationalities of commonwealth troops are recounted.

LIFE STORY OF PRESIDENT THEODORE ROOSEVELT: AN EXPLORER, SCIENTIST, HISTORIAN, & GREAT PATRIOT. DESCRIBES HIS EARLY PHYSICAL FRAILTY & STRUGGLES TO OVERCOME HANDICAP. TRACES EARLY POLITICAL CAREER & REVIEWS HIS MILITARY EXPLOITS IN CUBA. RECOUNTS HIS ANTI-TRUST FIGHTS, HIS ROLE IN TAFT'S SUCCESSION, HIS VIGOROUS WAR EFFORT, & QUIET DEATH.

Police cars block off an intersection after six year old Georgia Walsh was hit and killed by a van in East York, Ontario in 2014. Close up of Georgia in a photo with her family. Several locals participate in a memorial baseball game for Georgia in 2016 at Trace Manes park. Zoom in on a Georgia Walsh memorial sign behind home plate at the baseball field.

TV SHOW BLACK JOURNAL, WITH HOST TONY BROWN, COVERAGE OF ISSUES CONCERNING BLACK AUDIENCE, 1972 Initial Broadcast Date: February 22, 1972 30 minutes – Color Black Journal will examine some of the unanswered questions concerning the assassination of Malcolm X, the militant black leader who was shot to death seven years ago this month. Pointing to the discrepancies surround the assassination as reported in eyewitness testimonies, newspapers and magazines, Black Journal will pose some of the questions left unasked and unanswered during the (official?) investigation. Peter Bailey and associate editor of Ebony magazine, who was present at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem at the time of the assassination, will describe the events of the evening. Accompanied by film clips of Malcolm’s speeches and still photographs, Black Journal will also examine his development from a convict to an internationally-recognized black leader. Beginning with his first introduction to the Muslim faith and his subsequent break with the American Muslim leader, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, to his journey to Mecca and the organization of Muslim Mosques Inc., Black Journal will trace the career of this dynamic black leader. “Black Journal” is a production of NET Division, Educational Broadcasting Corporation Executive producer: Tony Brown

Check Copyright for material used in this documentary.<br/><br/>London 1896 - street scene showing traffic. Narrator states "News cameramen in those early days dashed to record all kinds of events." Man with a stills camera rushes towards the newsreel camera to get in position to take a photograph of people alighting from a car. High angle shot of a parade of nurses, an animated circle is used to emphasise the fact that a cameraman is seen in the foreground of the shot. "Thanks to them and their hand operated cameras we do have coverage of some aspects of history in the early 20th century." A holiday crowd is filmed by an early cameraman and the narrator points out that although the men clown around for the benefit of the camera, "the women in the picture seem more passive, more subdued." The narrator asks a rhetorical question about what women's lives were like in the 1890s. An unidentified speaker relates how women were expected to be feminine. Narrator states the aim of this documentary - to use archive film to trace the struggle for women's rights and to show how womens' lives were reshaped by the end of the 1920s. <br/><br/>Upper class Victorian women are described as having been "bound by marriage vows, corsets and a strict inescapable etiquette" - we see a group of elaborately dressed women holding dogs on leads. A woman works at a loom and we are told that "lower class women...had been tied for centuries to a life of ill paid drudgery." Still photographs of women doing piece work are shown - making sacks and matchboxes. Changes by the end of the century are described. Women were allowed to ride bicycles, married women had the right to their own property, a few women had begun to work in medicine, wealthy women got the vote in local government. Queen Victoria's funeral is shown - Victoria had always been opposed to women having the vote.<br/><br/>Victorian attitudes persisted after the death of the Queen. L/S of Queen Mary walking through the grounds of a University - female graduates curtsy as she walks past. <br/>Voiceover is a woman speaking of how her family's acquaintances were horrified that she wished to go to University. Another woman speaks of not agreeing to votes for women as a group of smartly dressed women parade in front of the camera. <br/><br/>Still image of Mrs Fawcett - campaigner for the parliamentary vote, she led the "suffragists" (sic). Still shot of Mrs Emmeline Pankhurst who led the "suffragettes". Mrs Pankhurst believed in "deeds not words", protest by militant action. We see a rare piece of film of the suffragette leaders Mrs Pankhurst, Mrs Drummond and Mrs Pankurst's daughter Christabel Pankhurst. A speech by Christabel Pankhurst plays over footage of suffragette action: a woman makes a speech from a high platform, women arrive at a meeting, woman walks along wearing a sandwich board. Footage of a constitutional demonstration of 1910 (possibly in Trafalgar Square). M/S panning shot of women holding banners which show the male support for the women's movement. June 1910 - a march of triumph - the suffragists and suffragettes believed that the government was finally giving way. The militarists were dressed in white holding arrows which represented a symbol of their imprisonment due to the cause. Mrs Pankhurst is seen. Other sections of the parade are seen, including women in University robes. Banners, flowers and flags are carried. However, despite the optimism of the movement, the bill was shelved. "Suffragette Riots at Westminster - Scenes in the disturbance in Parliament Square caused by militant Suffragettes." Women holding banners are surrounded by police punched, knocked down and trampled on" (we can only really see jostling). <br/><br/>Women at work in the coal industry. Various shots of women pushing trolleys of coal, sorting the pieces, moving wood and doing other heavy work in 1910. Film of Keir Hardie "the father of the labour party" and a supporter of women's rights making a speech. We hear his voice on the soundtrack.<br/><br/>Still photograph of George Lansbury, another socialist politician in favour of votes for women. "The Suffragette Election - Mr G. Lansbury who has resigned his seat for Bromley and Bow in order to fight a bye-election in the Suffragette cause." George Lansbury poses with a group of young children. He lost his seat and later went to prison for his suffragette sympathies. <br/><br/>Demonstration demanding Lansbury's release organised by another of Emmeline Pankhurst's daughters is shown. Unlike the rest of her family who campaigned amongst the richer echelons of society, Sylvia worked with poorer women of London's East End. Various shots of traffic being held up by the demonstration and by men running towards the parade. The marchers clash with the police - various shots of women being led away by male escorts and being arrested by the police. (Includes famous shot of woman being led along by three policemen.) <br/><br/>"London Suffragette Pageant. 66,000 women take part in a procession through London. All the famous women in history are represented." High angle shot of the pageant - women parade through crowded street. Exciting independence of the "new woman" was making headlines. Footage of female aviator powdering her nose before embarking upon a flight. A friend helps her to dress for her flight. Intertitle reads "Men were not alone. In 1912, Harriet Quimby essayed to be the first woman flyer to cross the English Channel." She puts on her flying gloves, a man kneels down beside the plane and she climbs onto his knee to get into the cockpit. She shakes hands with some of her well wishers. The plane moves off. "And she succeeded! She landed near Boulogne. Headlines flared in the world's press - A woman had flown the Channel!" Men wave their hats as she drinks a toast to them. (This is probably not a Pathe item). Female voiceover about the political situation accompanies film of large crowds of people walking through the streets. She speaks of struggle, upheaval, strikes, lockouts and bitterness between employers and employees. <br/>"London. Cabinet Returns. Re-assembling of Parliament For a Strenuous Session." Shot of Asquith arriving at Parliament - he pays the taxi driver. Militancy is illustrated, fires in the street due to arson attacks. "St Leonards Outrage. Damage estimated at £10,000 was caused by suffragettes firing the residence of Mr Arthur Du Cros M.P." L/S of the house with various people standing outside. <br/><br/>"Yarmouth - Suffragettes? Yarmouth Pier and Pavilion Burnt Down - Eclair Journal" Panning shot of the damage caused by a bomb placed in a dressing room. Voiceover (possibly the theatre owner) "I never thought my show was as bad as all that..." "London Church Completely Destroyed by Fire. £20,000 damaged supposed to be the work of the Suffragettes - the Williamson Animated News" Interior of the church showing fire damage - various shots. <br/><br/>Intertitle and narrator announce the Derby of 1913. Good panning shot of policemen having their lunch. One policeman toasts the camera with what looks like a glass of beer. Crowds of people wave at the King's carriage. Various shots of the race. Tattenham Corner, Emily Davison throws herself in front of the King's horse. An animated circle is used to focus the audience's attention on Emily as she ducks under the railings. Crowds rush to where she has fallen. We are shown the incident again in slow motion.<br/><br/>"Miss Davison's Funeral. The Funeral Procession of the Suffragette who was fatally injured at Epsom passing through London." Shot of the procession as it passes the camera, then the coffin being carried from St George's Church in Bloomsbury. Police hold back large crowds who surge forwards. Morpeth (?) - thousands of spectators. Woman's voice over the footage explains that Emily Davison believed that "every movement must have a sacrifice."<br/><br/>Footage of a procession in 1914 advertising the suffragette magazine. The women wear hoods and long robes over their clothes. "Arrest Bonar Law and Carson" was the headline on the front page. Suffragettes petitioned Carson on his doorstep. C/U of two women sitting on the step of his home. <br/><br/>"Suffragette New Method. Forsaking Militancy, Suffragettes try to gain votes by novel procession at Westminster." High angle shots of a peaceful procession - cars and floats are decorated with flowers. "Law Abiding Suffragists Journeyed from all over the country to hold a gigantic demonstration in Hyde Park." Various shots of members of Mrs Fawcett's non militant "National Union of Women's Suffrage Societies". Two women ride horses through crowds of men. 1914 "Palace Pandemonium. Mrs. Pankhurst and over 50 other suffragettes arrested at Buckingham Palace." Police lead away suffragettes - various shots. <br/><br/>Sequence showing women's efforts during the First World War. C/U of a sign reading "War Declared on Germany." Shots of people rushing through London streets. "Miss Christabel Pankhurst Home Again. The pre-war outlaw is now a win-the-war champion." C/U of Christabel posing in front of a car. High angle of a procession of men and women. One banner reads: "The British Lion is awake, so is the Lioness." In Trafalgar Square an unnamed American actress puts her attributes to great use to help in the recruitment drive (not recognised). "You're Wanted. Miss Carrie Lanceley at the Mansion House singing "Your King and Country Need You" (this is a Gaumont Graphic item.) Carrie sings in the open air to a large audience.<br/><br/>nterior of a hospital, nurses talk and tend to wounded soldiers. Nurse Cavell is mentioned. The work of nurses is praised. Women queue to join the Women's Auxiliary Services. They often volunteered without the permission of their menfolk "eager to be useful and to escape the boring routine of a woman's existence". <br/><br/>Fabulous government propaganda film of 1918. Made by the Ministry of Information, it is a dramatisation of how the announcement of the First World War affects a typical middle class family. M/S of a family sitting around a table in a garden. The son hands his father a newspaper in which he reads about the announcement appealing for army recruits. Intertitle reads: "Rubbish! The whole business will be over by Christmas. You must stop with me!" The father and son argue. Father bangs his fist on the table and storms off. "Mr Smith gets another shock." He sees his daughter reading a book and he takes it from her hands. It is "Woman's Place in the War". He throws it on the ground in a fury. "Woman's place in the war is AT HOME! She is not fit for anything else." He storms off. "Mr Smith has an Unexpected Visitor." He is sitting in a chair in the garden looking cross. He screws up a newspaper and throws it on the ground. Suddenly a ghostly figure appears. It is the apparition of a woman. "Wh - who are you?" asks Mr Smith. She replies: "I am the spirit of British Womanhood. You have poured contempt upon our powers. Now you must learn to realise them. Rise and go!" He tries to walk away but in the end succumbs to her power. "The Call." The ghostly woman stands on a hillside with her arms raised. "The Working of the Spirit" C/U of woman picking flowers. She is suddenly hypnotised and walks away like a zombie. C/U by a woman being seduced by a much older man. She smokes a cigarette and looks disinterested. She walks away when she sees the spirit of British Womanhood.<br/><br/>"Women's March Through London. A vast procession of women headed by Mrs Pankhurst, march through London to show the Minister of Munitions their willingness to help in any war service." High angle shots of the march in July 1915. Lloyd George (previously an enemy of Mrs Pankhurst) had committed money to the march as he was eager to recruit women into his munitions factory. "We Demand the Right To Serve" reads a banner. Various shots of nurses of the "Scottish Women's Hospitals" founded by Dr Elsie Ingalls (Sp?) at work in France. They carry men on stretchers through the snow. Dr Ingalls had offered her services to the War Office and had been told "My Dear Lady, go home and sit still." An injured man is lifted into a Red Cross X-Ray Car. We see the removal of shrapnel in an operating theatre. A woman Doctor operates. Dr Ingalls once said: "The ordinary male disbelief in our capacities cannot be argued away, it can only be worked away."<br/><br/>C/U of a poster: "On Her Their Lives Depend - Women Munition Workers - Enrol at once" Various shots of women working in the factories. Volunteers undergo a medical examination. "The Munitioneers wear gloves and masks to protect them from the poisons and dangerous fumes of the explosive material." Various shots of shells being filled with TNT etc. Voiceover of woman who had done this kind of work. Good M/S of large group of girls in what look like nightshirts washing their hands in a row of side by side wash basins. High angle shot of large number of women eating in a canteen. "Employers were beginning to see the connection between welfare and productivity." <br/><br/>"Mothers Leaving their Babies in the Morning." - Kineto item. M/S of children being taken into the Woolwich Nursery for Children of Munition Workers "open day and night". High angle shot of playground and interior of creches or and nurseries. Nursery nurses bathe two children. Child welfare became very important at this time. More shots of women at work in highly skilled trades.<br/><br/>"Women's Land Army - Where there's a will there's a way. "Experts" declared that women could not do this heavy work." (Broadwest Films?) M/S of Land Army girls loading hay onto the back of a cart. Women roll barrels, shovel earth, hammering metal, moving bricks etc. "A dangerous occupation - Acetylene Welding" (Ministry of Information). M/S of women working with welding irons. C/U of woman wearing welding glasses, she stops and lifts them up, smiles at the camera then puts them back on and continues welding. <br/><br/>Continues on Reel 2.<br/>

Blizzard Cripples East Coast

FOLLOWUP ON THE 4-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO DIED AFTER RIDING EPCOT'S BODYWARS....

BG MATERIAL FOR A CS ON A PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA PROGRAM DESIGNED TO PROTECT CHILDREN FROM PASSIVE INHALATION OF CRACK COCAINE. 02:00:27 INTVS WITH RELATIVES OF CRACK ADDICT NANCY MAJORS WHOSE THREE CHILDREN WERE TAKEN INTO TEMPORARY CUSTODY BY THE STATE AFTER HER SEVEN MONTH OLD DAUGHTER WAS FOUND DEAD WITH TRACES OF COCAINE IN HER URINE. 02:19:25 INTV/W MAJORS WHO DENIES CRACK WAS SMOKED AROUND HER DAUGHTER. 02:21:10 CUTAWAYS AND REVERSALS. TIGHT SHOT OF A PHOTO OF MAJORS' DAUGHTER. CI: PERSONALITIES: MAJORS, NANCY. HEALTH: DRUG ABUSE.

Trace fire crosses the night sky lighting up an Israeli town. Soldiers in tanks roll past an Israeli flag. PLEASE NOTE ALL VIDEO & AUDIO OF NEWS ANCHORS & REPORTERS IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR LICENSING.

A history of American folk songs and their origins, written and staged by Bob Herget under the musical direction of John Lesko, narrated and performed by Al Carmines and a group of musicians: eight singers, two pianists, bass and drums. Traces the influence of British, of blacks, and of the effect of the Westward expansion and wars. Includes: "Yankee Doodle Dandy", "Suzanna Don't You Cry," "St. Louis Blues", "Barbara Allan", Merle Haggard's song on the death of Elvis Presley "Faith in Jesus", "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow", "I Am Going to Glory", "I'm Talkin' about Devil Crabs", "Here Come de Honey Man", "A Tisket a Tasket", "Ole Stewball", "Turkey in the Straw" changed by the blacks into "Ole Zip Coon", "Were You There When They Crucified My Lord", "Green Grow the Lilacs", "Yellow Rose of Texas", "Love, Oh Careless Love", "If I was Whiskey", "Oh Didn't He Ramble", "Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen", "I Saw the Light", "Jesus is a Soul Man", "Salty Dog", Medley of sailor's songs: "The Prettiest Girl I Ever Saw", "What Shall We Do with a Drunken Sailor", "It Takes a Worried Man to Sing a Worried Song", "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child". 1978. Al Carmines as narrator and performer, along with eight singers, bass, drums, performs and dramatizes various ballads and folk songs from America's past and still present. 2:00 Carmines gives history of American folk songs. 3:00 Medley of Lullabies (first sounds the baby hears.) 0:33, 0:13, 0:09, 0:20, 0:34 "Yankee Doodle Dandy" written in 1755 by British Army officer to ridicule Americans is sung in five versions. "Comin' Through the Rye" 1:00 "Suzanna Don't You Cry" (Stephen Foster). All the singers and dancers perform this "production number." 4:00 Handy's St. Louis Blues. Al Carmines sings and plays the piano; a black woman dramatizes the words; the sequence turns into a medley of blues -- "Let my Jelly Roll," "Blonde Headed Woman", and "Ashes to Ashes." 4:22 "Barbara Allan" medley of different words to same traditional tune, dramatized with sets and costumes. (Point of this section is to show how the "penny broadside" was a musical news sheet.) 2:50 Merle Haggard's song on the death of Elvis Presley "Faith in Jesus" (The point here is to tie the folk song into the news broadside and current events.) Al Carmines, Patti Allison, Reathel Bean, Judy Gibson, Gwendolyn Nelson Fleming, Karl Heist, Vickie Patik, Gene Varrone, Ronald Young

BARS. VS OF SENATOR GARY HART (D-COLO) MEETING WITH A GROUP OF STUDENTS AT MAGNET HIGH SCHOOL IN CHICAGO, ILLINOIS. HART TALKS ABOUT JOBS, EDUCATION, THE ECONOMY, THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE BUDGET DEFICIT. VS OF STUDENTS ASKING QUESTIONS. HART TALKS ABOUT THE DEATH SQUADS IN EL SALVADOR (CR:318), AND THE WASTE OF MONEY USED TO TRY AND OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT OF NICARAGUA. HE TRACES HIS FAMILY ROOTS AND HISTORY. BLANK. CI: PERSONALITIES: HART, GARY. POLITICS: PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS, 1984.

THE HOME FRONT: HERE IS GERMANY, PT. 2

In Scarborough, the Ontario Commissioner of Public Health reports the death of a patient from SARS at Centenary Hospital, the eighth person to die from the disease in Canada. The commission traces an outbreak to Highland Funeral Home in Scarborough and ask people to isolate themselves in case of exposure. The hospital is closed investigating another patient death. Liberal leader Dalton McGuinty visits the Pacific Mall to show support for the Asian community. PLEASE NOTE News anchor and reporter image and audio, along with any commercial production excerpts, are for reference purposes only and are not clearable and cannot be used within your project.

Police have a suspect behind bars in the murder of an Orlando Sentinel newspaper carrier. Oscar Redding denies any involvement, but tells reporters he knows who killed Erle Rogers.

PNEUMONIA

MORE BODIES WERE EXHUMED TODAY IN SPRINGFIELD, OHIO, AS PART OF AN INVESTIGATION INTO WHETHER PATIENTS TREATED AT A LOCAL HOSPITAL IN THE MID- 1980s DIED OF FOUL PLAY. INVESTIGATORS ARE LOOKING FOR TRACES OF A MUSCLE RELAXANT CALLED PAVULON, WHICH CAN BE FATAL IF IMPROPERLY ADMINISTERED.

INTERVIEW Robert Lipsyte: help me if I go to a hospital? Robert Klitzman It's an interesting question. I think what it would do is have doctors available who have had a chance to sleep I think that they will be therefore think less uncomfortable as they perform their work. There'll be less fatigued I think they'll be less angry at times that those odd moments but I think that residents and interns find it frustrating being up all night. Robert Lipsyte Does that anger and irritation affect the way that you that that residents treat their patients or make diagnoses or make decisions? Robert Klitzman One would hope not I think doctors and interns like anyone else are human beings. And in speaking to doctors, particularly after my book came out a number of interns and residents spoke to me about their experiences. And what I found is people would report to me how they had felt quite depressed during their internship quite anxious. quite angry at times residents who've been several years out of their internship would even say to me, they feel they've never quite gotten over internship this several years afterwards. So I think that Robert Lipsyte and maybe some of the, the the anger and bitterness that we face in older doctors may still have to do with that period of internship. Marilyn do you think that there's too much responsibility given to interns and residents? Our life in the tape? The the young intern said we don't really make life and death decisions. Is that true? Marilyn Agin No, I don't agree. I found when I was an intern that especially at night, when you're on call, there's usually a skeleton staff. I was I was the intern, there was a second year there was a third year. And I remember times where I was all alone taking care of some very, some very sick children. Some of them had cancer, we're on chemotherapeutic drugs, we're on IV drips went into fluid in balance, I had to make decisions. Because often the senior was in the emergency room. The second year was in the delivery room, there was an emergency delivery. And although I could call for help, there were times I had to make certainly spontaneous decisions. And as an intern, you don't even really know all the time when there's an emergency. In terms of you know, electrolyte imbalances, these are things that you learn in the course of the year, Robert Lipsyte have you ever did you ever make mistakes? Marilyn Agin Well, no, not real. I'm sure I've made mistakes, nothing that was, you know, irrevocable. And I do remember though, being up all night, and kind of in pediatrics, it's very important to know your dosages. Because it's not like an adult where their standard doses you have to base it on weight. I remember kind of calculating, rechecking myself dividing it again, to make sure I was giving the right amount Robert Lipsyte to it and making those mathematical calculations tired and yeah, yeah, Joe, you're involved with the committee. One of the things that Sidney Zion said a couple of minutes ago, was that it's not such a big deal to restructure the work practices of interns and residents. Does that make sense to you? Joseph Sachter Absolutely. I think it's been our experience that when different departments try to show some flexibility and innovation, you can substantially comply with many of these regulations, recommendations and regulations. Now, simply by rearranging the schedule of doctors, the doctors work. One example I can give you as a metropolitan hospital where the Department of Medicine has taken positive and excellent steps and in in regulating hours, I think they mentioned on the piece here, that New York hospital voluntarily moved down to an 80 hour limitation. I think that 80 hours is key, because I think what we've been discussing here and what people tend to seize on is this idea of person up to 32 hours, 36 hours and the effects that has, and that's important, but I think what's left behind is what happens chronically, what happens to a doctor when they are working 110 120 hours a week, for weeks on end, three, four or five years. And it's that chronic fatigue, that really exerts a very insidious but very predictable effect on all patients. It's not just the isolated patient, which some mistake could have been made Robert Lipsyte What would be an example of that kind of, Joseph Sachter it's it's the chronic fatigue, that I'll give you a specific example. It could be when you're, if you've somehow managed to get bed at three, four in the morning, and the four hours that was quoted on by the stock to your hospital, seems optimistic to me, I never had four hours of sleep when I was an intern. So now it's four o'clock in the morning, the beeper goes off, the nurse calls, Mr. Smith, down, the hall can't fall asleep. Okay. Maybe the reason Mr. Smith can fall asleep is because someone else told him that he has an inoperable tumor, I wouldn't be able to fall asleep either. But it's four o'clock in the morning, you haven't gotten any sleep at all. And the response instead of trying to go to Mr. Smith, and see what's going on, is to just let her sleeping pill. And that's that's the effect of the chronic fatigue. It's treating patients like a collection of symptoms and not human beings. I think that's important, I think it's going giving an order over the phone not seeing the patient, which can often have tragic consequences, as we saw earlier. And I think it's in the part responsible for the kinds of things when patients come back and we can complain about doctors being arrogant, insensitive of not taking the time, all those are traced back to the same things. So I think it's really to the credit of the ad hoc committee of Dr. Bell, Dr. Axelrod, that they addressed this not just in terms of limiting 24 hours. In fact, the initial grand jury recommendation was 16 hours but said 24 Yes, but 80 as well. Now, 80 seems like a lot. But I think in terms of the way medicine is practiced today, it's certainly a step in the right direction. Robert Lipsyte And beyond even that, the idea that so often the least experienced doctors, were also tired, are being asked to make your phrase was spontaneous decisions. Why in this system Aren't you know, as we've just synchronized doctors, our age, coming back one night, a week, one night a month doing this? Does that would that make sense? Would that have helped you when you weren't intern? Would that have helped those children who needed their doses? modulated Marilyn Agin Yeah, I think it would have helped to have more backup. I'm not sure if I would have needed to call a senior attending at three in the morning for something like that. But I just think if there was more staff available, it could even be more senior residents. And as you know, as we just saying, I wasn't so chronically tired. I could possibly deal with this better too Robert Lipsyte Robert, you talked about so many doctors who have never gotten over that kind of psychic trauma. Do you think that besides affecting interns and residents care immediately that it will affect care for the rest of that physicians life in their attitude towards patients? Which other doctors? Robert Klitzman Well I think to a degree, it may, I think that the internship year in many ways needs to be seen in part as a rite of passage. And I think it's important to realize this importantly, is the context for the bell Commission's findings, as it become instituted. And specifically, I think the rite of passage involves a personal transformation that medical students undergo during the internship and making them into doctors, that has a lot of effects, both positive and have some downside as well. For instance, I think two important ones. I think that people want physicians who are compassionate, but I think that we also want physicians who are familiar with disease with people who are dying, so that when someone dies, and a family is in an acute emotional crisis, that someone in that crisis will be level headed, will be rational, be calm will know what to do. And we look at physicians to do that. I think that that kind of adjustment, that kind of coming to see oneself differently happens during internship. The downside, though, I think, is that interns developing this sense of becoming familiar with disease and with dying, can become perhaps hardened or numb to and I think that's the danger that needs to be sort of talked about more, I think, I think that interns and residents need to have a context in which to view their experiences. And I think the other thing that internship does, though, in terms of being a personal transformation, is that it empowers doctors we give in society, society gives doctors tremendous power. In this country, doctors determine what kind of foods we should eat, they determine what kind of sex we should have, what kind of exercise we should do. And similar when someone goes into a hospital patient, an intern, we let intern come and put needles in us put tubes in various parts of our bodies, wake us up at all hours. And the kind of confidence that's involved in the kind of empowering that goes on, I think happens during internship. I think that the internship years in many ways, a kind of personal transformation, which ones comes to see oneself differently, on which one goes through a kind of trauma coming out, in some ways a different person Robert Lipsyte but we have to find some way to keep the humanity within that year, doctors, thank you very much for being with us.