Assorted fruits, animation
Assorted fruits, animation.
OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART
FTG IN KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE FOR A DICK SCHAAP STORY ABOUT OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART. 02:00:01 BARS. 02:00:44 INT NAT SOT WS STEWART STANDING ON POOLSIDE AT UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE AS COACH WALKS OVER TO HIM AND THEY TALK. 02:01:13 REAR VIEW MS TWO SWIMMERS STANDING IN POOL AS COACH TALKS TO THEM AS HE KNEELS ON POOLSIDE. 02:02:52 MS POOL LANE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN. 02:04:45 CU DIGITAL TIMER. 02:05:02 WS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM UP AND DOWN LANES. MS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM. 02:05:34 CU TIMER. 02:05:56 MS LANE AS STEWART SWIMS. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING AND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. 02:11:20 POV FROM BEHIND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN LANE. ZOOM INTO STEWART STANDING IN POOL. 02:11:58 SIDE VIEW MCU COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. TILT DOWN TO MS STOPWATCH IN HIS HAND. 02:12:29 MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:13:16 WS STEWART STANDING ON PLATFORM AND DIVING INTO WATER. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:16:25 CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO MS STEWART IN STEWART'S HOME OFFICE. 02:16:40 SIDE VIEW MS BULLETIN BOARD HANGING ON WALL. PAN TO STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN DEN. VS STEWART IN OFFICE. 02:17:06 CU POSTER OF STEWART ON WALL. ZOOM OUT TO WS OFFICE AS STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN STAND AND WORK. VS STEWART IN OFFICE WORKING. 02:19:05 CU ANOTHER POSTER ON WALL READING THE TOP 5 REASONS MEL STEWART LIKES TO SWIM. TILT UP TO CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO WS WALL W/ STEWART POSTERS AND ATLANTA CENTENNIAL OLYMPICS POSTER. 02:19:28 MS STEWART'S HANDS AS HE WRITES. 02:19:38 TWO SHOT STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN OFFICE. 02:19:51 MS STEWART IN DEN. 02:19:57 REAR VIEW MS MAN WALKING OUT OF OFFICE. ZOOM INTO MEDAL IN FRAME ON WALL. MORE VS APARTMENT. 02:20:11 MS LIVING ROOM AREA. ZOOM INTO STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:20:26 MS SIGN READING GREAT CATCH HANGING IN KITCHEN. 02:20:38 PAN FOLLOWING STEWART INTO BATHROOM AS HE GOES INTO DRAW AND TAKES OUT OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL. ZOOM INTO MEDAL. 02:21:22 MS PILE OF MAIL ON BATHROOM COUNTER. ZOOM OUT TO HAS DRAW AS STEWART OPENS IT AND TAKES OUT MEDAL. ZOOM INTO 1992 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL AS HE HOLDS IT AND THEN PUTS IT BACK IN BOX AND INTO DRAW. 02:22:30 MS TWO WINE BOTTLES W/ ROSES IN THEM ON TABLE W/ TWO BURNED CANDLES. ZOOM OUT TO WS KITCHEN AS STEWART GOES INTO REFRIGERATOR. VS STEWART AS HE MAKES GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:25:59 CU GLASS OF CARROT JUICE NEAR JUICER. MORE VS STEWART AS HE MAKES VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:39 WS STEWART STANDING IN KITCHEN DRINKING. ZOOM INTO HIM DRINKING GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:54 REAR VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:28:07 SIDE VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN DRINKING. 02:28:36 TWO SHOT STEWART AND FRIEND SITTING IN BOOTH AT RESTAURANT AS THEY EAT AND TALK. PAN TO TWO SHOT TWO OTHER MEN SITTING AT BOOTH. 02:30:47 BLANK TO END.
1960s TV SHOWS
ANITA BRYANT ORANGE JUICE SPOT **FOR DIGITAL MASTER use AS-597*
The Legislature Agenda (2001)
FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, MINNESOTA COULD BE HEADED FOR AN ENERGY CRISIS.
E2R: Finding love in Limousin
OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART
FTG IN KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE FOR A DICK SCHAAP STORY ABOUT OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART. 02:00:01 BARS. 02:00:44 INT NAT SOT WS STEWART STANDING ON POOLSIDE AT UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE AS COACH WALKS OVER TO HIM AND THEY TALK. 02:01:13 REAR VIEW MS TWO SWIMMERS STANDING IN POOL AS COACH TALKS TO THEM AS HE KNEELS ON POOLSIDE. 02:02:52 MS POOL LANE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN. 02:04:45 CU DIGITAL TIMER. 02:05:02 WS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM UP AND DOWN LANES. MS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM. 02:05:34 CU TIMER. 02:05:56 MS LANE AS STEWART SWIMS. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING AND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. 02:11:20 POV FROM BEHIND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN LANE. ZOOM INTO STEWART STANDING IN POOL. 02:11:58 SIDE VIEW MCU COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. TILT DOWN TO MS STOPWATCH IN HIS HAND. 02:12:29 MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:13:16 WS STEWART STANDING ON PLATFORM AND DIVING INTO WATER. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:16:25 CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO MS STEWART IN STEWART'S HOME OFFICE. 02:16:40 SIDE VIEW MS BULLETIN BOARD HANGING ON WALL. PAN TO STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN DEN. VS STEWART IN OFFICE. 02:17:06 CU POSTER OF STEWART ON WALL. ZOOM OUT TO WS OFFICE AS STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN STAND AND WORK. VS STEWART IN OFFICE WORKING. 02:19:05 CU ANOTHER POSTER ON WALL READING THE TOP 5 REASONS MEL STEWART LIKES TO SWIM. TILT UP TO CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO WS WALL W/ STEWART POSTERS AND ATLANTA CENTENNIAL OLYMPICS POSTER. 02:19:28 MS STEWART'S HANDS AS HE WRITES. 02:19:38 TWO SHOT STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN OFFICE. 02:19:51 MS STEWART IN DEN. 02:19:57 REAR VIEW MS MAN WALKING OUT OF OFFICE. ZOOM INTO MEDAL IN FRAME ON WALL. MORE VS APARTMENT. 02:20:11 MS LIVING ROOM AREA. ZOOM INTO STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:20:26 MS SIGN READING GREAT CATCH HANGING IN KITCHEN. 02:20:38 PAN FOLLOWING STEWART INTO BATHROOM AS HE GOES INTO DRAW AND TAKES OUT OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL. ZOOM INTO MEDAL. 02:21:22 MS PILE OF MAIL ON BATHROOM COUNTER. ZOOM OUT TO HAS DRAW AS STEWART OPENS IT AND TAKES OUT MEDAL. ZOOM INTO 1992 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL AS HE HOLDS IT AND THEN PUTS IT BACK IN BOX AND INTO DRAW. 02:22:30 MS TWO WINE BOTTLES W/ ROSES IN THEM ON TABLE W/ TWO BURNED CANDLES. ZOOM OUT TO WS KITCHEN AS STEWART GOES INTO REFRIGERATOR. VS STEWART AS HE MAKES GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:25:59 CU GLASS OF CARROT JUICE NEAR JUICER. MORE VS STEWART AS HE MAKES VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:39 WS STEWART STANDING IN KITCHEN DRINKING. ZOOM INTO HIM DRINKING GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:54 REAR VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:28:07 SIDE VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN DRINKING. 02:28:36 TWO SHOT STEWART AND FRIEND SITTING IN BOOTH AT RESTAURANT AS THEY EAT AND TALK. PAN TO TWO SHOT TWO OTHER MEN SITTING AT BOOTH. 02:30:47 BLANK TO END.
2000s NEWS
NEWSFEED: 7/13-14/2005, LARGE PLANT FIRE NC, PALOS VERDES BRUSH FIRES IN CALIFORNIA, LOTTERY WINNERS VARIOUS, BISHOP INSTALLATION ;DX-EXT: NC PLANT FIRE, aerials of large plant, water being sprayed, large fire, mostly charred remains of big plant, lots water ;DX-INT: KY, 4 WIN A MILLION DOLLARS, lotto winners hold up winning check, couple smiles and poses for camera ;DX-EXT: CA, triple digit temps, kids skateboarding w/helmets, t/h heat, ice poured into cooler, fruit juice, golfers, sun thru trees ;DX-INT: CA, CHIEF BRATTON SHOOTING, press conf. Susie Pena shooting, explains shooting mechanics ;DX-EXT: CA, PALOS VERDES BRUSH FIRE, clouds of smoke, aerial, p/u to flames, close to homes, hillside flames, people garden hose ;DX-EXT: CA, PALOS VERDES BRUSH FIRE, people try to save homes with garden hose, fire dept, at scenes, lots of flames ; DX-EXT: MARLIN HITS BOAT INJURES TEEN, cool revenge! fish jumps from water, huge marlin on fishing line, OTS of teen on boat, cu fish ;DX-INT: Fl, Shuttle Discovery, crowds gather, t/h on shuttle landing ;DX-EXT: TN, Trooper Larkins funeral, procession in church carry casket, full dress honors, family enters, motorcycle procession; DX-EXT: TN, POLICE FUNERAL, procession of police cars flashing lights, and motorcycles, Hearst, color guard, etc ;DX-INT: TN, NEW BISHOP INSTALLATION, ceremony for new bishops in catholic church, full regalia, large crowd, arena; DX-EXT: FLIGHT 587, MEMORIAL PLAQUE, crying relatives, unveiled memorial, footage of burning wreckage, firemen, American Airlines ;DX-EXT: IL TERRORIST THREATS AT GAS STATION, aerial of empty gas station, surrounding area, Princeton, IL ;DX-INT: NEW PALTZ MAYOR, SAME SEX MARRIAGE CASE, two men marry, hug, DA drops charges against Mayor, celebration ;DX-INT: WV DISASTER WORKERS W/JACKPOT, POWERBALL WINNER, 10 MILLION DOLLARS, T/H HANDS OUT CHECKS ; DX-EXT: IN, MISSING CHILD FLYERS DISBURSED, cu of pic and flyer, press conference on missing child, distraught parents ;DX-EXT: FL Hurricane Dennis recovery, power crews work with cherry pickers fix power lines, relief efforts, elderly ;DX-EXT: NY JET EMERGENCY LANDING HYDRAULIC PROBLEMS, Evergreen jet on tarmac, towed into place ;DX-EXT: NC FLOODING WATER RESCUE, int. flooded homes, water in street, rivers overflow, workers in water trying to repair pipes ;DX-EXT: PA TODDLER SHOT INSTEAD OF RACCOON, NX police at scene, t/h of witnesses, flashing lights, distraught woman ;DX-EXT: CA, BOATING ACCIDENT, Stars & Stripes Yacht towed, marina, cu of leak in boat hull, water pours out, man looks at damage ; DX-EXT: VT, AMTRAK STATION THREATENED, police arrest suspect, place in car drive away , State Police sign, suspect photo ;DX-EXT: NE FATAL ACCIDENT, accident aftermath big wreck van and cars mangled, tow truck and police at scene ;DX-EXT: TX, SHARK ATTACK, people wade to shore, overweight, play in surf ;DX-INT: NY GOV. PATAKI, press conf, winery for NY products, bill signing, signs at table outside, others clap, speech ;DX-INT: BANGLADESH, UN AGAINST CHILD BRIDES, Indian wedding ceremony, painted up bride, traditional, young mothers w/kids ;DX-EXT: AR, BOYS DROWN IN RIVER, views of river, calm water, empty boat at landing, Augusta water tower; DX-EXT: CA, WILDFIRES, CLOSE TO MILLION DOLLAR HOMES, aerials Palos Verdes fires, helicopter drops foam, burning hillside, people watch ;DX-EXT: CA, MAMMOTH DINOSAUR BONES FOUND, dig site, t/h from scientist, thigh bone, femur, picking in dirt, brush with brush ;DX-EXT: MN, LIGHTS GO OUT ON BUDGET, CAPITOL BLDG, darkened halls and rooms without signed budget, in Minnesota, dark rotunda; DX-EXT: VT, MAN ARRESTED THREATENS AMTRAK, press conference, repeat suspect arrested put in car, car impounded ;DX-EXT: MN, BOMB SCARE AIRPORT, TERMINAL EVAC, police, bomb squad presence, police on tarmac, Delta jet lands, ext. airport ;DX-EXT: OK, TRAVELING VIETNAM MEMORIAL WALL SET UP, replica set up on tour, various soldiers cu on names on wall ;DX-EXT: FRANCE, CU Of control tower airport, in French, explains terrorist possibilities, practice drill, haz-mat wash down, etc ;DX-EXT: UK, BRITISH MUSLIMS CONDEMN BOMBINGS< press conference, community leaders ;DX-EXT: PA, CRAZY DRIVING CAUGHT ON TAPE, teens hang out of cars, lay on hood, lots of different images ;DX-EXT: MA, ALLIGATORS SPOTTED NEAR BOSTON, in water head showing, people watch from river bank, canoeist tries capture ;DX-EXT: UK, MORE VICTIMS IDENTIFIED FROM BOMBINGS, flowers, people praying, memorial spot, banks of flowers ;DX-EXT: VT, RESPONDS TO AMTRAK TERRORIST ARREST, REPEAT OF PHOTOS
Presentation of the hunting plan: Hugo Clément in PLS
OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART
FTG IN KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE FOR A DICK SCHAAP STORY ABOUT OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART. 02:00:01 BARS. 02:00:44 INT NAT SOT WS STEWART STANDING ON POOLSIDE AT UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE AS COACH WALKS OVER TO HIM AND THEY TALK. 02:01:13 REAR VIEW MS TWO SWIMMERS STANDING IN POOL AS COACH TALKS TO THEM AS HE KNEELS ON POOLSIDE. 02:02:52 MS POOL LANE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN. 02:04:45 CU DIGITAL TIMER. 02:05:02 WS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM UP AND DOWN LANES. MS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM. 02:05:34 CU TIMER. 02:05:56 MS LANE AS STEWART SWIMS. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING AND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. 02:11:20 POV FROM BEHIND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN LANE. ZOOM INTO STEWART STANDING IN POOL. 02:11:58 SIDE VIEW MCU COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. TILT DOWN TO MS STOPWATCH IN HIS HAND. 02:12:29 MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:13:16 WS STEWART STANDING ON PLATFORM AND DIVING INTO WATER. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:16:25 CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO MS STEWART IN STEWART'S HOME OFFICE. 02:16:40 SIDE VIEW MS BULLETIN BOARD HANGING ON WALL. PAN TO STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN DEN. VS STEWART IN OFFICE. 02:17:06 CU POSTER OF STEWART ON WALL. ZOOM OUT TO WS OFFICE AS STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN STAND AND WORK. VS STEWART IN OFFICE WORKING. 02:19:05 CU ANOTHER POSTER ON WALL READING THE TOP 5 REASONS MEL STEWART LIKES TO SWIM. TILT UP TO CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO WS WALL W/ STEWART POSTERS AND ATLANTA CENTENNIAL OLYMPICS POSTER. 02:19:28 MS STEWART'S HANDS AS HE WRITES. 02:19:38 TWO SHOT STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN OFFICE. 02:19:51 MS STEWART IN DEN. 02:19:57 REAR VIEW MS MAN WALKING OUT OF OFFICE. ZOOM INTO MEDAL IN FRAME ON WALL. MORE VS APARTMENT. 02:20:11 MS LIVING ROOM AREA. ZOOM INTO STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:20:26 MS SIGN READING GREAT CATCH HANGING IN KITCHEN. 02:20:38 PAN FOLLOWING STEWART INTO BATHROOM AS HE GOES INTO DRAW AND TAKES OUT OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL. ZOOM INTO MEDAL. 02:21:22 MS PILE OF MAIL ON BATHROOM COUNTER. ZOOM OUT TO HAS DRAW AS STEWART OPENS IT AND TAKES OUT MEDAL. ZOOM INTO 1992 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL AS HE HOLDS IT AND THEN PUTS IT BACK IN BOX AND INTO DRAW. 02:22:30 MS TWO WINE BOTTLES W/ ROSES IN THEM ON TABLE W/ TWO BURNED CANDLES. ZOOM OUT TO WS KITCHEN AS STEWART GOES INTO REFRIGERATOR. VS STEWART AS HE MAKES GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:25:59 CU GLASS OF CARROT JUICE NEAR JUICER. MORE VS STEWART AS HE MAKES VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:39 WS STEWART STANDING IN KITCHEN DRINKING. ZOOM INTO HIM DRINKING GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:54 REAR VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:28:07 SIDE VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN DRINKING. 02:28:36 TWO SHOT STEWART AND FRIEND SITTING IN BOOTH AT RESTAURANT AS THEY EAT AND TALK. PAN TO TWO SHOT TWO OTHER MEN SITTING AT BOOTH. 02:30:47 BLANK TO END.
Award ceremony on children’s press cartoons and Médiatiks competition by the Besançon Rectorate
OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART
FTG IN KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE FOR A DICK SCHAAP STORY ABOUT OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART. 02:00:01 BARS. 02:00:44 INT NAT SOT WS STEWART STANDING ON POOLSIDE AT UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE AS COACH WALKS OVER TO HIM AND THEY TALK. 02:01:13 REAR VIEW MS TWO SWIMMERS STANDING IN POOL AS COACH TALKS TO THEM AS HE KNEELS ON POOLSIDE. 02:02:52 MS POOL LANE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN. 02:04:45 CU DIGITAL TIMER. 02:05:02 WS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM UP AND DOWN LANES. MS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM. 02:05:34 CU TIMER. 02:05:56 MS LANE AS STEWART SWIMS. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING AND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. 02:11:20 POV FROM BEHIND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN LANE. ZOOM INTO STEWART STANDING IN POOL. 02:11:58 SIDE VIEW MCU COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. TILT DOWN TO MS STOPWATCH IN HIS HAND. 02:12:29 MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:13:16 WS STEWART STANDING ON PLATFORM AND DIVING INTO WATER. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:16:25 CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO MS STEWART IN STEWART'S HOME OFFICE. 02:16:40 SIDE VIEW MS BULLETIN BOARD HANGING ON WALL. PAN TO STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN DEN. VS STEWART IN OFFICE. 02:17:06 CU POSTER OF STEWART ON WALL. ZOOM OUT TO WS OFFICE AS STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN STAND AND WORK. VS STEWART IN OFFICE WORKING. 02:19:05 CU ANOTHER POSTER ON WALL READING THE TOP 5 REASONS MEL STEWART LIKES TO SWIM. TILT UP TO CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO WS WALL W/ STEWART POSTERS AND ATLANTA CENTENNIAL OLYMPICS POSTER. 02:19:28 MS STEWART'S HANDS AS HE WRITES. 02:19:38 TWO SHOT STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN OFFICE. 02:19:51 MS STEWART IN DEN. 02:19:57 REAR VIEW MS MAN WALKING OUT OF OFFICE. ZOOM INTO MEDAL IN FRAME ON WALL. MORE VS APARTMENT. 02:20:11 MS LIVING ROOM AREA. ZOOM INTO STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:20:26 MS SIGN READING GREAT CATCH HANGING IN KITCHEN. 02:20:38 PAN FOLLOWING STEWART INTO BATHROOM AS HE GOES INTO DRAW AND TAKES OUT OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL. ZOOM INTO MEDAL. 02:21:22 MS PILE OF MAIL ON BATHROOM COUNTER. ZOOM OUT TO HAS DRAW AS STEWART OPENS IT AND TAKES OUT MEDAL. ZOOM INTO 1992 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL AS HE HOLDS IT AND THEN PUTS IT BACK IN BOX AND INTO DRAW. 02:22:30 MS TWO WINE BOTTLES W/ ROSES IN THEM ON TABLE W/ TWO BURNED CANDLES. ZOOM OUT TO WS KITCHEN AS STEWART GOES INTO REFRIGERATOR. VS STEWART AS HE MAKES GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:25:59 CU GLASS OF CARROT JUICE NEAR JUICER. MORE VS STEWART AS HE MAKES VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:39 WS STEWART STANDING IN KITCHEN DRINKING. ZOOM INTO HIM DRINKING GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:54 REAR VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:28:07 SIDE VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN DRINKING. 02:28:36 TWO SHOT STEWART AND FRIEND SITTING IN BOOTH AT RESTAURANT AS THEY EAT AND TALK. PAN TO TWO SHOT TWO OTHER MEN SITTING AT BOOTH. 02:30:47 BLANK TO END.
Archaeological excavations at the citadel of Doullens
Collector series. Fixed telephones
OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART
FTG IN KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE FOR A DICK SCHAAP STORY ABOUT OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART. 02:00:01 BARS. 02:00:44 INT NAT SOT WS STEWART STANDING ON POOLSIDE AT UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE AS COACH WALKS OVER TO HIM AND THEY TALK. 02:01:13 REAR VIEW MS TWO SWIMMERS STANDING IN POOL AS COACH TALKS TO THEM AS HE KNEELS ON POOLSIDE. 02:02:52 MS POOL LANE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN. 02:04:45 CU DIGITAL TIMER. 02:05:02 WS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM UP AND DOWN LANES. MS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM. 02:05:34 CU TIMER. 02:05:56 MS LANE AS STEWART SWIMS. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING AND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. 02:11:20 POV FROM BEHIND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN LANE. ZOOM INTO STEWART STANDING IN POOL. 02:11:58 SIDE VIEW MCU COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. TILT DOWN TO MS STOPWATCH IN HIS HAND. 02:12:29 MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:13:16 WS STEWART STANDING ON PLATFORM AND DIVING INTO WATER. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:16:25 CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO MS STEWART IN STEWART'S HOME OFFICE. 02:16:40 SIDE VIEW MS BULLETIN BOARD HANGING ON WALL. PAN TO STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN DEN. VS STEWART IN OFFICE. 02:17:06 CU POSTER OF STEWART ON WALL. ZOOM OUT TO WS OFFICE AS STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN STAND AND WORK. VS STEWART IN OFFICE WORKING. 02:19:05 CU ANOTHER POSTER ON WALL READING THE TOP 5 REASONS MEL STEWART LIKES TO SWIM. TILT UP TO CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO WS WALL W/ STEWART POSTERS AND ATLANTA CENTENNIAL OLYMPICS POSTER. 02:19:28 MS STEWART'S HANDS AS HE WRITES. 02:19:38 TWO SHOT STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN OFFICE. 02:19:51 MS STEWART IN DEN. 02:19:57 REAR VIEW MS MAN WALKING OUT OF OFFICE. ZOOM INTO MEDAL IN FRAME ON WALL. MORE VS APARTMENT. 02:20:11 MS LIVING ROOM AREA. ZOOM INTO STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:20:26 MS SIGN READING GREAT CATCH HANGING IN KITCHEN. 02:20:38 PAN FOLLOWING STEWART INTO BATHROOM AS HE GOES INTO DRAW AND TAKES OUT OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL. ZOOM INTO MEDAL. 02:21:22 MS PILE OF MAIL ON BATHROOM COUNTER. ZOOM OUT TO HAS DRAW AS STEWART OPENS IT AND TAKES OUT MEDAL. ZOOM INTO 1992 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL AS HE HOLDS IT AND THEN PUTS IT BACK IN BOX AND INTO DRAW. 02:22:30 MS TWO WINE BOTTLES W/ ROSES IN THEM ON TABLE W/ TWO BURNED CANDLES. ZOOM OUT TO WS KITCHEN AS STEWART GOES INTO REFRIGERATOR. VS STEWART AS HE MAKES GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:25:59 CU GLASS OF CARROT JUICE NEAR JUICER. MORE VS STEWART AS HE MAKES VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:39 WS STEWART STANDING IN KITCHEN DRINKING. ZOOM INTO HIM DRINKING GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:54 REAR VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:28:07 SIDE VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN DRINKING. 02:28:36 TWO SHOT STEWART AND FRIEND SITTING IN BOOTH AT RESTAURANT AS THEY EAT AND TALK. PAN TO TWO SHOT TWO OTHER MEN SITTING AT BOOTH. 02:30:47 BLANK TO END.
EDR - Natural healing: fasting, a therapeutic practice?
OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART
FTG IN KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE FOR A DICK SCHAAP STORY ABOUT OLYMPIC SWIMMER MEL STEWART. 02:00:01 BARS. 02:00:44 INT NAT SOT WS STEWART STANDING ON POOLSIDE AT UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE AS COACH WALKS OVER TO HIM AND THEY TALK. 02:01:13 REAR VIEW MS TWO SWIMMERS STANDING IN POOL AS COACH TALKS TO THEM AS HE KNEELS ON POOLSIDE. 02:02:52 MS POOL LANE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN. 02:04:45 CU DIGITAL TIMER. 02:05:02 WS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM UP AND DOWN LANES. MS POOL AS SWIMMERS SWIM. 02:05:34 CU TIMER. 02:05:56 MS LANE AS STEWART SWIMS. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING AND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. 02:11:20 POV FROM BEHIND COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE AS STEWART SWIMS UP AND DOWN LANE. ZOOM INTO STEWART STANDING IN POOL. 02:11:58 SIDE VIEW MCU COACH STANDING ON POOLSIDE. TILT DOWN TO MS STOPWATCH IN HIS HAND. 02:12:29 MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:13:16 WS STEWART STANDING ON PLATFORM AND DIVING INTO WATER. MORE VS STEWART SWIMMING. 02:16:25 CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO MS STEWART IN STEWART'S HOME OFFICE. 02:16:40 SIDE VIEW MS BULLETIN BOARD HANGING ON WALL. PAN TO STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN DEN. VS STEWART IN OFFICE. 02:17:06 CU POSTER OF STEWART ON WALL. ZOOM OUT TO WS OFFICE AS STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN STAND AND WORK. VS STEWART IN OFFICE WORKING. 02:19:05 CU ANOTHER POSTER ON WALL READING THE TOP 5 REASONS MEL STEWART LIKES TO SWIM. TILT UP TO CU SPEEDO POSTER OF STEWART SWIMMING. ZOOM OUT TO WS WALL W/ STEWART POSTERS AND ATLANTA CENTENNIAL OLYMPICS POSTER. 02:19:28 MS STEWART'S HANDS AS HE WRITES. 02:19:38 TWO SHOT STEWART AND ANOTHER MAN IN OFFICE. 02:19:51 MS STEWART IN DEN. 02:19:57 REAR VIEW MS MAN WALKING OUT OF OFFICE. ZOOM INTO MEDAL IN FRAME ON WALL. MORE VS APARTMENT. 02:20:11 MS LIVING ROOM AREA. ZOOM INTO STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:20:26 MS SIGN READING GREAT CATCH HANGING IN KITCHEN. 02:20:38 PAN FOLLOWING STEWART INTO BATHROOM AS HE GOES INTO DRAW AND TAKES OUT OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL. ZOOM INTO MEDAL. 02:21:22 MS PILE OF MAIL ON BATHROOM COUNTER. ZOOM OUT TO HAS DRAW AS STEWART OPENS IT AND TAKES OUT MEDAL. ZOOM INTO 1992 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL AS HE HOLDS IT AND THEN PUTS IT BACK IN BOX AND INTO DRAW. 02:22:30 MS TWO WINE BOTTLES W/ ROSES IN THEM ON TABLE W/ TWO BURNED CANDLES. ZOOM OUT TO WS KITCHEN AS STEWART GOES INTO REFRIGERATOR. VS STEWART AS HE MAKES GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:25:59 CU GLASS OF CARROT JUICE NEAR JUICER. MORE VS STEWART AS HE MAKES VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:39 WS STEWART STANDING IN KITCHEN DRINKING. ZOOM INTO HIM DRINKING GLASS OF VEGETABLE JUICE. 02:27:54 REAR VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN. 02:28:07 SIDE VIEW MCU STEWART IN KITCHEN DRINKING. 02:28:36 TWO SHOT STEWART AND FRIEND SITTING IN BOOTH AT RESTAURANT AS THEY EAT AND TALK. PAN TO TWO SHOT TWO OTHER MEN SITTING AT BOOTH. 02:30:47 BLANK TO END.
Final Design Review
Fianl design review for GM Shamus Tape Four 0158 Kate Driving 04:01:30 JD (mid shot over shoulders) So Kate, you literally come to parking lots like this one and study what people are doing with their cars? Kate: You know, typically I won't necessarily just go out and do it, but I always have to go somewhere. I'm an opportunist. If I'm out, I try to maximize being out and not just get my errand done but to look and observe. 04:01:53 JD So what are you looking for? What are you trying to spot? Well, mostly it's people and how they're using their cars or how they're living their lives. The parking lot is great though because people have either come from their cars or are on their way to them. Everyone I've seen, and right now it's impending rain so there might not be a lot of people, everyone has their key fob in their hand, if you notice that. 04:02:18 JD What does that tell you? Kate: Again, it's the situation that they're in. They know it's the next thing they have to do, so it's in their hand. The one lady, she had her cell phone at the same time, and she's trying to juggle her kids and everything else. But, it's almost like when you start seeing all of these devices and technology, in my opinion, right now you can do anything you want. The hard thing is saying, what should we do? 04:02:47 JD Here's a guy. Just an example and there might be nothing to it. A guy loading groceries into the back of his car. Do you pay attention to that? Kate: I do, and I can also say as a consumer and a vehicle driver myself, I for a long time was in the mode of once a day stopping to get a can of soup or a cantaloupe or something. So there it is in my trunk rolling around. If we as the designers can think of how people really use their vehicles, then how can I just make that one experience less irritating to someone. Maybe if it's not irritating right now, how can we make it a delight, make it a pleasure? In my business there's so many people that are natural gear heads and love driving for driving's sake. But I understand also that the majority of our buyers are very real people using their vehicle much more like it were an appliance where they may not love the experience that they have. They may not hate it, but if we can find some little delight or some way to make their everyday life better. 04:03:57 JD Can you pull something out of the real world and give me an example of what you might be thinking or what process you go through? Here's a lady loading groceries. 04:04:11 JD We see she's got a stroller in the back, and she's got it loaded with the groceries. She's got to get her raincoat on and get it out the back because it's going to start raining. What does that tell you? Kate: She's got a lot to manage. She's trying not to get wet, but she knows she's going to be outside for quite some time or else she wouldn't be putting her coat on because it's not cold. She's obviously looking at all of these clouds rolling in. I think she's probably going to struggle to have to put all of her groceries in the back seat. She's got a stroller, so she might have some car seats in back there and maybe can't do that. She might have to divide up different places for them to go. I doubt she'll switch the stroller to the rear seat just to accommodate the groceries. Again, people do what they have to. You don't know what their next step is or how she could have more flexibility with her car. It's a hard balance because what you don't want to do is make a place for everything because some days my drink holder is for drinks and some days it's for my cell phone. The more flexibility you can build in for people, the better it really is. A lot of our minivans will have the cup holder slash juice box holder because on any day you don't really know which one it is. There also were a few ladies that I noticed when we pulled in. I noticed that they have their key fob, but you know when you have your key fob it's relatively small. They have all these discount shopping cards. 0538 CU on key fob If you've ever been behind someone in line, you can see some have almost twenty of them. At least my mind automatically starts to think they're electronic based. They're scanning the code. Could you somehow combine it and get it all into your key fob? It would probably require some infrastructure at the store, at the retail level. 04:06:00 JD But those are the kinds of thoughts you get? Kate: It's like why, if it's digital and electronic, when you look at your music devices and your phone, how much power is packed in there. Why couldn't we go further and further? And that's exactly what we're exploring. Go further and say the parts that you have to have, why can't you maximize them? 04:06:17 JD So, for this lady loading groceries, your thought process might go to a more convenient place for her to put her groceries? Kate: Can we build in some flexibility for her because I bet you she won't use her car the same way tomorrow. I almost guarantee that. I'm not watching the clock, but it's taking her a good two or three minutes so far just to do the process. Then she has to get to someplace and undo it all. 04:06:46 JD So you see a problem there that is worth solving? Kate: It's an opportunity. I'm sure she's okay with it, but boy, if we could help her do it in half the time. Somebody like her might do this so often that she might be willing to pay for a little system that would help her. If we approach our business intelligent, we might do something up front in the design process to say that this is for the majority of our customers, but we know our market and here's a feature we can plan to have available to them for purchase. 04:07:22 JD Have any of your observations, say any of your parking lot observations, led to the development of an innovation that's very specific? Kate: I can't say that any of mine specifically have. I haven't been in this business long enough. As I come into this job, my perspective changes, and I start to get sensitized to what the opportunities are. Given the longer lead times of our. From a pure results stand point, it's a little too early to say that, but what I have been pleased with is the dialogue that I can bring to the table to my peers who are designing the next sedan or pickup truck or minivans. It's good to be able to talk about customers in general. It helps focus them on who's really using the vehicles. The dialogue is very open, and on the whole, lots of interest in the customer's experience. Just how people really use their vehicles because it's an object meant to be used and not just seen. 04:08:23 JD Is there any surprising insights you've. I mean, is it surprising any of the insights you've had about how people use their vehicles? Kate: I've been surprised. I think for myself I know how I use my car. I've seen other people use it similarly. But then, I'll say wow, I never thought someone would have to do that. 04:08:46 JD like what? Kate: One of the things I'm very fascinated by, and there's nothing close by that I can demonstrate it with, I love going past construction sites and seeing the laptops and the clipboards and the notebooks, all the. I mean, this is literally their office. If we were in a pickup truck, the center console is really meant to aid a lot of the tools that people might be doing in a professional construction situation. But again, there's a danger in designing anything too specifically because you take out the flexibility. IN THE DOME WITH DAVE LYONS 04:09:34 JD (side mid shot of both) I'm actually quite interested to know how old you are. Dave: I'm 38. 04:09:41 JD And how long have you been involved in car design? DL: I went to school for it. There are colleges where you can actually learn it. 04:09:49 JD (mid two shot) So you did car design as a specific? DL: major, yeah. I majored in transportation design. There's a school here in Detroit, the College for Creative Studies. 04:09:57 JD How long have you been with General Motors? DL: I came right out of school. It's been 17 years. 04:10:03 JD So, 17 sounds like a long time, but 38 sounds quite young to have really the responsibility to design a car that could be. It's really a big deal. It could be on the road some day. DL: (mid shot of interviewee) It is a big deal. It's a lot of responsibility, but my job is other people's hobby. A lot of people have normal jobs, but in the margins of their paper they'll doodle cars because they have a real passion for it. The difference is that I get paid for it. 04:10:29 JD What do you think you bring to it? What do you have that makes you a designer? Man, I wish I could tell you. It starts off a passion for drawing. Some people go into the fine arts and crafts and things like that. There are other people who combine that with being thrilled with how things work. How does a toaster work? Why does a motorcycle look the way it does? All these things. Designers when they're kids will just take things apart to see how they work. 04:11:08 JD (mid two shot) Were you that kind of kid? DL: A little bit. I tended to draw things that didn't exist. I'd start off with dragons and lots of science fiction type things. Eventually, my father is a big car nut. We used to go up to the races in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin. Some of the GT cars race. Very thrilling. You see those. You smell them. You hear them drive by. You can't. I can remember when I stopped drawing space ships and started drawing cars. It was on one of those trips. It was thrilling. 04:11:46 JD So if you'd stayed with spaceships, you'd have really been ahead of the curve by now. DL: A lot of the people that I went to school with, a lot of people that graduate from industrial design will go into car design. But some of them will go into industrial light and magic and support the movie industry as well with that sort of stuff. It's the same skills. People that visualize Star Wars scenes are coming up with whole environments that don't exist. Here, our job is to come up with vehicles that don't exist. 04:12:15 JD You're based in Korea, South Korea obviously. Why Korea? What's there that isn't here? I'm talking about in terms of design. (mid shot of interviewee) DL: Right. Design, it's a wellspring for design. There's a lot of fashion trends start there, graphic design. The computer age has really taken hold, you can see it with website design animation, and video games and things like that. We, General Motors, have a relationship with (Jim-Buh?), which is a company in South Korea. We use them for product development for small cars. They have a real expertise in it. They know how to do them the right way, how to get them to the appropriate cost. They've been doing it for years. With that relationship, now we have that expertise too. What we've done here with these vehicles is said okay, free expression. What would you do for a small car for Chevrolet? 04:13:26 JD (mid two shot) You just said that to your shop of designers in Korea, Koreans you said? Go with it. DL: Part of what General Motors has brought to their process is in the past, you would have engineers, financial planning people will come up with the right size and cost of a car. You kind of hand it to design to dress it up. (mid shot of interviewee) Put a bow on it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Now we have the creative people are really engaged with working with the engineers up front. There are some programs we start working before anyone else does. We do a vision. You can price it or size it any way you want, but it's got to look like this. That's very influential in getting the organization energized around a new concept. They came to us and said they're ready to start designing new mini car architecture. We put together several ideas. (pan to each individual car) There's more of a traditional European hatchback, lots of flare, lots of drama. By the way, you could also take it into this direction, too, or this direction. Very different character. All basically using the same parts and pieces underneath. All the engineering would be the same on this, but very different characters and moods. You could, as far as I'm concerned, build all three and reach totally different customers. (mid shot of interviewee) So, that's kind of the thought process we went through. We wanted to get as diverse a set of vehicles, all still Chevrolet, all still basically using the mini car as the basis for building on. 04:15:12 JD (mid two shot) What makes these Chevrolets, aside from the medallion? What makes them Chevrolet-ish to you? DL: Well, Chevy is an awfully big brand. 04:15:25 JD So there's a lot of room? DL: A lot of room, a lot of band width here. The last thing we want to do is these cookie cutter cars where a small car is the same as a medium car is the same as a big car. The Russian dolls, we call it. Don't really want to do that. The vehicles that we do in South Korea, for example, some are sold in the US, some are sold in China, some in India, Europe, Australia, you name it. In some cases, we've designed some of these with certain markets in mind. (mid shot on interviewee) This one may be more Europe. This one may be more North America. It's a genre. (two shot) We may not build all three. We may choose to send this one to North America. It's a creative exercise. It doesn't necessarily mean that that's where it's going. 04:16:16 JD (mid shot follows them as walk towards vehicle) This one is actually a working automobile. You can open it up. Can I open it up?(mid shot over hood of vehicle) I think it has to be plugged in for the door to work. 04:16:27 JD But it'll drive. DL: Yeah, right. This is a real. 04:16:31 JD But there's only one in existence? DL: But it's sheet metal, too. Yes that's right. 04:16:34 JD So you actually go to the trouble of building, molding a single car? 04:16:37 DL: Yeah. Right. 04:16:39 JD (pan mid as they walk over to second car) This one is made out of? DL: Fiberglass. To be honest, when we decided to bring these together as concept vehicles, it really wasn't our plan. These were all production proposals. We were working with my boss, Ed Welburn, and we showed him all three in sketch form and clay model form. We were so excited, we were having a hard time choosing. He and I agreed we should take all three to a show and really show the creativity that the team in Korea is capable of. 04:17:14 JD (mid with two cars in shot) It's usual to take three of them? DL: It isn't Normally, a design studio wants to just show the finished final work and say this is it. Our message here is really the bandwidth of the Chevy brand and the creativity of the design studios that GM has around the world. 04:17:29 JD So what's literally under the hood of this fiberglass? Is it empty space? DL: Empty space. JD (wide shot standing back from vehicles) Because you couldn't tell by looking at the outside. It's pretty convincing. DL: To answer your Chevy question though, there are some cues that we are trying to get across the board for Chevrolet. (04:17:45 mid two shot) That includes this like, we have this dual point grill, (04:17:48 mid shot of car from front) an upper and a lower, and a body color that the bowtie rests on. (04:17:54 mid two shot) We have three different interpretations of that. This one is clearly sporty, a little bit more angular. This one is using some of the (04:18:05 mid shot of two cars) Chevy Suburban say form language but obviously on a much different scale. Then, this one over here is (04:18:10 wide shot from in front of third car) a flushed, hot rod sort of a character. (04:18:18 wide shot to include JD and interviewee) In fact, the whole vehicle here is designed to have a little hint of if you could buy a (04:18:25 mid two shot) customized car already from the factory. The roofs down a little bit. The belt line is up. (04:18:29 wide shot from front of car) It has a little hint of heritage but still really modern. 04:18:36 JD Great, you're going to take me to, what will we see on this panel? DL: (mid shot of them walking) You'll see a little bit of the creative process. Each one of these was designed by a different designer. 04:18:47 JD Individual one guy designer or team? DL: One guy or person, in some case a woman, in some cases a guy. This particular case, let me see if I can, there we go. (04:19:02 close up of screen) This is the lead designer, Ms. (Cho) (04:19:05 zoom out to two shot) These are some of her early sketches. She's playing around with the idea of using the facial, which is usually made out of plastic and have it be a different color and sweep up the sides not just for the bumper but sweep up. It's a very graphic design. We liked that and said it almost could be SUV-like. It's very tough and rugged functionally if you take the plastic and use it instead of metal. It can take a hit in the parking lot. (04:19:42 zoom onto screen) So she started working on some that were a little more truck-like. You can see here that this is the facial that comes all the way back here to the doors. One piece. Very indestructible. (04:19:52 zoom out to two shot) For a small car very inexpensive way to not actually have to tool up fenders. She developed that design a little bit further. You can see this is kind of the final sketch where we said we could make a model of that. So this is actually a photo of the scale model she's doctored it up with some lifestyle equipment. (04:20:17 zoom in on screen) Then we built a full size model. 04:20:21 JD (zoom out to two shot) You built that out of clay? DL: This is clay, yes. We still use clay. We'll use the computer to create the services, but we still like to cut it in clay to experience it full size. The virtual world is great, but we drive cars in the real world. It's always nice to have that validation. Then a fiberglass shell was made. In this case, this was actually the full size work and the fabrication all happened in Detroit. So when Ms. Cho came here this morning, it was the first time she saw the car complete ever. So it's kind of exciting. A big part of globalization is kind of letting go. 04:21:02 JD Is she here? DL: She is. JD (wide shot of cars) Can we just call her over? DL: She's secretly dreading this. (she walks over) 04:21:24 JD Hi. So this is your car? I just want to say congratulations. Cho Thank you very much. JD: Today is the first time that you saw it? Cho: This model? This model result. Final model. JD: It's okay, relax. 04:21:45 DL: This is the first time anybody saw it all put together. We've looked at them virtually. We've looked at them. JD It's a good day for you. Congratulations. DL: Ms. Cho's actually our manager in charge of all mini cars for GM. Even though this was her own personal expression, she has the greater responsibility of all mini cars. (walking back to screen) 04:22:27 (close up of screen) This is the final design. (zoom out to two shot) These images were made long before the car was complete. They are digitally rendered virtual cars. 04:22:38 JD On beaches? DL: On beaches. We can put it anywhere. (Ing Cho Kim?), the other designer that we have here from Korea. He was the lead designer on the Beat, our green car there. Again, here are some of his early sketches. You can see a little bit of the technical drawings underneath from engineering. Ing-Cho will come in here and say I want this beautiful little line to come through. This engineering may have had a little bit more of a square corner. They put that a little bit up. 04:23:11 JD But these tiny moves actually have a profound impact? DL: It has a big impact on the appearance and on the engineering. We get into a little bit of a scuffle with engineering sometimes. JD (zoom in on screen) Surely the engineers are your friends. 04:23:28 (mid two shot) DL: Well, deep down they're all car people, too. We'll argue about something like this on paper. Then we'll make a model and say, see why we want this? They'll come in and more often than not, unless we're breaking the laws of physics or some government law, and it looks good, okay we'll find a way. There's some creative tension there always. So we first work in scale model, again most of us screw up putting scale models together. Ing Cho gets paid to do this professionally. You can see here even in the scale model the idea that we have a single line that peels off the grill, creeps the edge of the headlight, the hood cut line, into the pillar and over the top. (04:24:16 two shot) This one is probably the wildest of the three design-wise. There's some dramatic lines with a lot of flare. It's good, but he's grounded it in several key lines, like this one I just described, that brings the whole car together into one statement. 04:24:33 JD (mid shot w/cars in background) Did you ask him to make changes to this, besides engineering, any radical changes to his design, or is it pretty close to what he wanted to do? DL: He and I probably have different opinions on that. There was some, generally, I come in. My job is to kind of take elements away and uncover the pure vehicle underneath. Very often, young designers will have so many great ideas, they want to get them all into one car. 04:25:04 JD Like you were when you were young? (two shot w/cars in background) DL: You bet. I'm still that way a little bit. In this case, when you have your designer views, what's the essence of this car? If you had to create a gesture with three lines to describe this car, what would they be because everything else then is noise. Take it off. My job is to simplify 04:25:26 JD What did you take off of this design, for example? DL: You can see, there are some different solutions on this line, how they come up. This is maybe a more complicated profile. Well, that's okay, but what's really important is the glass line that does this (04:25:46 close up of screen), this beautiful line that comes down to the edge of the headlight. But maybe it doesn't stop and change directions. Maybe it flows through a little bit more elegantly. 04:25:55 JD (two shot) If you make a design change like that on his design, is it still his design? DL: There is tension even within the design community where obviously for him this is his art work. For me, this is my responsibility to bring this into completion. There is always some tension there. It's part of the way we work. I do think he still considers this his car. He's very proud of it. I'm like the archeologist. I remove all the dirt and all the stuff and get just to the artifact that's important. That's how I see my role. 04:26:38 JD And it was done to you, I'm sure, when you were younger. DL: It is done to everybody at every level, in their own way. Probably the hardest part about being in industrial design, as opposed to other forms of art, whether you're a painter or a sculptor, these are really pure expressions of yourself. Maybe a gallery will pick you up or maybe it won't, but if you're starve, it's on your own terms. Here, these things have to be marketable. They have to be feasible. They have to be under a certain cost. Each one represents multi, multi-million dollar investments for a company. It's very tough for the artist to be able to work through that maze. In the end, the best designs out there are the ones that go through that process in the most pure form. Yeah, there's been some modifications along the process, as there always is. (04:27:37 mid shot with cars in background) We try to make sure that it's getting to the purity of the design. It's not removing what is so core to them. We'll have a conversation. What's really important to you on this car? This is what I really want to do. Okay, keep that. Simplify everything else. Those conversations always go better than, nahh. You've got nothing. (04:28:05 two shot with screen in background) You can see, this is some of the scale model development. Then we start making a model. These are some of the detail shots of the headlight. Again, these are virtual versions of the car. The car only arrived here, I believe, yesterday, so we don't have any shots of it really driving around. We don't have two cars. 04:28:41 JD Does your gut tell you that any of these are going to make it into full production? (mid shot of interviewee) DL: These were all designed with the intent to take to production. Now, we're probably not going to, even though if it were up to me, we would. We're in the process of evaluating which one of these we really want to take. 04:28:58 JD It would never be all three? DL: at this point, that's not our plan. I'd like to maybe get at leas two, one for sure.
12 13 Edition Centre Val de Loire: [issue of 02 July 2020]
CONRAD MURRAY TRIAL DAY 16 P3
FTG FOR COVERAGE ON MICHAEL JACKSON / INT BROLL COURT PROCEEDINGS OF JACKSON DEATH INVESTIGATION AND HIS DOCTOR CONRAD MURRAY DAY 16 13:34:53 COURT RESUMES 13:34:56 DEFENSE CALLS, GOURJIAN QUESTIONING --DETECTIVE DAN MYERS 13:35:33 i am a detective for the LAPD, homicide division, ive been a detective since march of 1994 13:36:01 no sir i was not. GOURJIAN one june 25th did you learn abuot the death of MJ 13:36:08 yes. 13:36:13 yes i was. 13:36:24 GOURJIAN do you recall when that was 13:36:28 well, it was immediately after my return, i was on another investigation, we were signed the case immediately, returned home on Sunday evening and joined Monday morning 13:36:47 yes. 13:36:51 GOURJIAN were one of those witnesses alberto alvarez 13:36:54 yes. 13:36:57 he was a security director of logistics for michael jackson incorporated. august 31st (interviewed him) 13:37:25 yes. yes 13:37:37 GOURJIAN mr alavarez never mentioned puttinga way any viles for dr murray"? 13:37:50 yes. 13:37:57 GOURJIAN mr alvarez never mentioned seeing a bottle inside the iv bag 13:38:01 correct. GOURJIAN where did that interview take place? 13:38:08 that was in an office building 13:38:28 my partner detective scott smith, witness alberto alvarez 13:38:39 GOURJIAN was michael amir williams present during the interview? 13:38:41no sir. 13:39:01 GOURJIAN was mr michael amir williams interviewed in the same location alvarez was? MYERS: yes 13:39:11 GOURJIAN how about faheem muhameed, was he also in the same office. 13:39:16 yes sir. 13:39:29 GOURJIAN during your interview of mr alvarez, did he draw some pictures MYERS:yes he made some drawings 13:39:42 GOURVIAN SHOWS PICTURES OF WHAT ALVAREZ DREW 13:41:12 these drawings were made by mr alvarez august 31st of 2009? MYERS:yes sir. 13:41:40 the press release was issued on august 27th of 2009, the press release identified the cause of death as propofol? GOURJIAN would it be fair to say 2 monthsp rior, the coverage of this case was overwhelming 13:42:08 leading up, yes there was a considerable amount of news coverage 13:42:20 my office was getting numerous phone calls (from media) GOURJIAN you've never seen this drawing before? 13:42:52 no sir. ----DEFENSE FINISHES QUESTIONING DETECTIVE----- ----DETECTIVE MYERS STEPS DOWN---- ---DETECTIVE ORLANDO MARTINEZ CALLED TO STAND---- 13:44:58 police detective for city of los angeles, robbery homicide division, for 10 and a half years 13:45:18 directing your attention to june 25th, were you working that day? MARTINEZ: i was 13:45:24 GOURJIAN did you become aware of michael MARTINEZ: yes. 13:45:34 GOURJIAN what time you arrive to ucla? 13:45:38 i dont recall, but i wrote it down in my chronologue 13:46:30 GOURJIAN during the half you were there, did you hear mr alvarez put away viles for dr murray? MARTINEZ: no 13:46:56GOURJIAN sometime that evening, you proceeded to the residence? MARTINEZ: yes. 13:47:04 i believe it was around 730pm 13:47:09 GOURJIAN when you arrived, did you observe mr alvarez there again MARTINEZ: no i did not 13:47:20 yes. 13:47:24 he was the head of security for michael jacksons personal body guards (faheem muhammed) 13:47:37 GOURJIAN alex supall, from SID arrived, and he was the invidual in charge of surveillance cameras 13:48:02 GOURJIAN were you with, mr supall in the basement where the digital recorder was. MARTINEZ: yes 13:48:17 you could view it in the guard check, but thats where we could rewind and play it. 13:48:39 GOURJIAN it was your decision to only download footage related to mr jacksons arrival on june 25th, 2009? MARTINEZ: and dr murrays, yes. 13:49:00 GOURJIAN you're aware more footagte could have been downloaded had you wanted? 13:49:07 yes. GOURJIAN did you meet with alvarez after that? 13:49:18 several times 13:49:20 i think september to retrieve his fingerprints. its in my chronologue 13:50:08 i was not. 13:50:31 GOURJIAN prior to that meeting, did you review mr alvarez's meeting did you review his statment from august of 2009 13:50:54 deputy david walgren, asked me to bring some evidence items and meet with him and mr alvarez in his office 13:51:25 im pretty sure it was the day before. 13:52:10 i think it was in his office, mr walgrens office. yes. GOURJIAN who was present in that office? 13:52:30 mr alvarez, myself and mr walgren ***13:52:42 GOURJIAN which evidence items did you bring to the meeting? ***13:52:47 3 evidence items, im not sure of the numbers. it was a salene bag, a pulse oximeter, and i think one was...im not sure the last one.....(looks in his notes)...propofol bottle, a salene bag, and the pulse oximeter 13:54:16 mr alvarez parked at the police administration building and walked to the meeting together. 13:55:00 CU OF ALVAREZ'S DRAWING (NOT NEW) GOURJIAN were you present when he drew this picture? 13:55:08 i was. 13:55:22 GOURJIAN have you seen this picture? yes. 13:56:13 GOURJIAN the meeting in april of 2011, that was about a week before we were going to initially begin trial 13:56:24 i think a few weeks before. ---DEFENSE FINISHES QUESTIONING--- 13:57:02 WALGREN QUESTIONS (missed first 2 questions about alvarez's testimony in preliminary hearing) 13:57:47 NEW EVIDENCE BY PROSECUTION--picture that includes dry erase board writing at bottom ***13:58:23 walgren: when mr alvarez drew this picture, was there a particular reason ***13:58:31 yes.. when i showed him the salene bag, the bottomo f the bag he said was different from the one he had seen, there was an addiitonal chamber so i asked him to draw it to explain what he meant 13:58:51 walgren as he drew it, was that this portion of the drawing, showing this aperatus on the salene bag martinez: yes. ----PROSECUTION FINISHES QUESTIONING---- --GOURJIAN STARTS AGAIN---- 13:59:39 GOURJIAN at the time of preliminary hearing, mr alvarez never testitifed that evidence item 106 was the item he saw in the iv bag correct? MARTINEZ: correct 13:59:58 GOURJIAN all he testified was all he saw was a vile 14:00:04 im not sure exactly, he didnt say THAT was the bottle. thats correct. 14:01:42 did you bring other viles recovered fromt he residence? i did because everything was sealed in a box, there are multiple items, but the only things i removed from the box 14:02:05 i dont believe so. GOURJIAN were any additional items shown to mr alvarez in the meeting? 14:02:16 no. ----DETECTIVE MARTINEZ STEPS DOWN----- ---COURT PAUSES BECAUSE OF WITNESS SCHEDULING---- ---ALLAN METZGER CALLED TO THE STAND----CHERNOFF BEGINS QUESTIONING (former physician and friend of michael jackson) 14:30:58 i am a physician and...(inaudible) 14:31:05 principle office is near cedars, west los angeles, ive been in practice since 1974, in this office since 1981 14:31:22 yes. exactly when i met michael was probably 15 to 20 years ago. 14:31:44 prior to 2000, definitely CHERNOFF: prior ot 1995 METZGER definitely 14:32:02 CHERNOFF: how would you describe your relationship with him as years progressed 14:32:12 it began professionally and over the years we ahd become close over the birth of his children, in many years i was the confident, and a friend, mostly one of his primary physicians in los angeles. off and on there may have been other physicians he would call specialists. but i understood me to be the main internal medicine physician. 14:32:51 CHERNOFF: do you know dr arnold kelin METZGER: yes i do 14:33:25 do you recall receiving a phone call from mr jackson in feb 2009 METZGER yes METZGER approximately a year earlier, he called me in early 2008. 14:34:14 CHERNOFF when did you speak to mr jackson in 2008 14:34:17 june 12th, 2008.....conversation was about his health, sleep issues, nutrition, and some skin care issues. i believe at that time he was primarily living in vegas 14:34:52 many years earlier. again referring to my records, june 23rd 2003 he came into the office. yes he came to the los angeles office 14:35:17 he had told me he was taking zanex for sleep. we had also seen him for some forms of therapy 14:35:48 CHERNOFFthe conversation with michael jackson is recorded in your medical records. METZGER yes, i dictate my notes after i see the patient in the office after a phone call or house call. 14:36:09 it was 2/03 and 2/08 14:36:19 general health issues, he was under stress and taking tylenol pm. i asked when he was coming to los angeles, he didnt know. we talked about skin care and back. i always wanted to be socially and medically for him. i asked him to see me and dr klein because he had skin issues. dr klein was his dermatologist. 14:37:48 prior to the phone call you received in february 2009 had you been contacted by MJ or anyone in his household or anyone who worked for him 14:38:17 im not sure, i may have had a rare phone call with somebody..i had been in touch often with his nanny who had helped with the children. 14:39:18 i had been in touch with her infrequently in 2008 and 2009, generally over the children's issues. i really liked to keep tabs on how they were doing. 14:39:45 after february 26th, 09. i visited him at his home at his request, april 18th, 2009....michael called and asked me to come over to discuss several things. it was definitely day, i think it was early afternoon april 18th i dont recall. 14:40:30 i think it was a weekend, i think it was a saturday or a sunday. 14:40:42 CHERNOFF: was it unusual for you to visit MJ's home? 14:40:45 not unusual but infrequent. basically he said he wanted to talk about some health issues, and he knew i wasnted to see the kids. the three children, michael, some security guards i dont recall names of at the moment, grace was not there, i dont know who else was in the home. 14:41:27 CHERNOFF at the time MJ was talking to you, did he tell you he had other doctors? METZGER: no 14:41:48 it started with michael myself and the children, then the children went outside and then we had privacy in the living room. mostly medical issues and stress he was under with rehearsal schedules. i think i was there for an hour an hour and a half. that conversation, 20 minutes, 25 minutes. CHERNOFF how would you characterize his state of mind? ****METZGER lucid....he was excited, he was talking to me about some creative things he was thinking about, he spoke to me about his excitement and fear about the tour. i think his fear was this was a big obligation and he didnt want to not do a good job with 50 shows and he realized it was a huge ordeal to do that. i think he believe he was upt o the task, but also fearful about his nutrional state 14:43:54 he talked about his nutritional state and things i worked with him years ago. we talked about hydration, before performing and after performing, i think he was doing well with his chronic back issues. mostly nutrition and hydration 14:44:30 metzger reads it from his medical records CHERNOFF: when did you know MJ had problem sleeping? ***14:45:00 many years ago. i would say over 15 or 20 years. i know sleep was an issue particulary after performing, he could not come down. i was familiar with it on tours, i treated it infrequently 14:45:52 CHERNOFF did you ever travel with MJ METZGER yes i did. 14:46:12 CHERNOFF back to the conversation on april 18th, did he mention to you any specific medicine he hoped to obtain for sleep issues? ****METZGER he asked me about intravenise sleep...i think he used the word juice. i dont think i heard the word of a specific medication. ***14:46:49 im not sure. it could have been iv, anesthetic, im not sure what he was asking. he did not believe any oral medicine would be helpful. 14:47:16 i dont recall him naming medicines, i do remember many medicines used to not work. 14:47:35 i had personally tried him on tylenol pm, we had tried zynax to help his anxiety and help him sleep, and on that visit i tried other medication to help him. i gave him chlonopin to be used, or trazidone, to be used not together. 14:48:14 CHERNOFF was there further discussion about iv drug he was looking for? 14:48:21 i dont recall, he did want some form of an anesthetic. i dont recall asking him specifically about medication. CHERNOFF were you familiar with propofol? METZGER i am now. 14:48:43 i probably had heard about it from outpatient procedures or surgery, so i was aware of that medication 14:48:58 i had referred him or work with plastic surgeons and dermatologists. 14:49:16 i dont recall a specific anesthesiology clinic 14:49:24 CHERNOFF: do you know a dr randy rosen METZGER randy rosen is a pain management physician and randy and i had worked voer the years with michael in terms of pain management 14:49:47 most of the time it was a chronic back sprain, from practicing, performing, he had injuries 14:51:02 CHERNOFF prior to your meeting with mj, or actually during your meeting, did he tell you he was visiting dr arnold klein? 14:51:21 i presumed he would see dr arnold klein for dermalogic treatment......most of the time michael was having mild dermalogitical issues and other skin issues from dr klein 14:52:03 CHERNOFF in your conversation, was there any mention of MJ taking you to london? METZGER no. 14:52:22 he was concerned about hydration, he was concerned about sleep, he was concerned about injuries. i dont know any praticing physicians in london. 14:52:46 CHERNOFF you didnt ahve any advice for him at that point? METZGER i couldnt give him any other advice. ***14:53:20 CHERNOFF i take it you did not provide him IV medication? ****METZGER i did not provide any IV for michael jackson. i would say ever. 14:54:06 i dont think so. i gave him instructions about the medicine i prescribed and asked him to get back to me about which medication was helpful 14:54:43 i did not speak with michael jackson. 14:56:13 CHERNOFF during the 15 years you treated MJ, you kept medical records? METZGER yes i have. i have 5 pages of medical records since 2002. 14:56:54 ---CHERNOFF FINISHES QUESTIONING--- --WALGREN QUESTIONS---- ***14:57:06 WALGREN on april 18th, 2009 you explained to him that was dangerous and should not be done outside of a hospital? 14:57:18 thats correct. ***14:57:21 WALGREN had you ever given MJ propofol? METZGER never ***14:57:31 WALGREN any amount of money that would convince you to give that medication ***14:57:35 absolutely not. ----CHERNOFF--- ***14:57:51 any intravenous medication should not be given in a home. 14:58:33 CHERNOFF: you didnt approach the subject further? METZGER i dont recall getting into anymore detail. ----METZGER STEPS DOWN-----
[Confinement: Arvieu, a happy village in the heart of Aveyron]
Spirituality and the brain / NTL - Michael Perssinger Interview
Interview with Laurentian University professor Michael Perssinger for a Nightline spot on the brain and spirituality. Michel Martin: 01:00:32 Ok, Dr. Perssinger, if you would just identify yourself for the transcriber. Tell us who you are, what you do, and how you'd like to be identified. Michael Perssinger: 00:40 I'm Dr. Michael Perssinger. I'm a professor of neuroscience at Laurentia University in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. MM: 00:48 And are you a medical doctor? MP: 00:49 I'm a professor of neuroscience, which means I'm a PhD doctorate with a specialty in biology and psychology, and my outside, primary outside research was in the area of geophysics. MM: 01:02 Oh interesting. Now, we're interested in this question of the brain's function-or how the brain functions in spiritual experiences, and I just wanted to ask how you became interested in this form or research-in this kind of area. MP: 01:15 Well, our primary goal was to understand the sense of self. What is it about the human self, and what patterns in the brain generate the sense of self. In the process of studying this we began to stimulate the right hemisphere, the right side of the brain. 01:28 In eighty percent of our subjects, who didn't know the nature of the experiment, reported a sensed presence, a feeling of an entity, or something that was non-corporal [phonetic] standing beside them. 01:39 So we began to pursue the possibility, that the sense of presence, which is the basis of the muses and the visitations, the deities, may be intrinsic to the brain itself. MM: 01:50 1 think I might be asking you to go back just a little further, just to ask what stimulated your interest to begin with..in this area of work. Or is that what you were trying to answer? [paraphrase] MP: 02:02 Well, our interest in the basis ... the God-basis within the brain or the correlate within in the brain didn't start that way at all. Our primary interest was to understand the sense of human self, and the nature of creativity. 02:14 1 wasn't really particularly interested in the God question, because, it's a, from my point of view, an empty hypothesis. 02:20 You can't really test it one way or the other. I was more interested in the areas of the brain and the patterns of brain activity that generate the sense of self and ultimately that led to the discovery of the relationship between mystical experience and certain types of brain activity. MM: 02:35 Ok, Now, describe the experiment for me, if you would. MP: 02:39 Well, the primary procedure by which we which we elicited the sensed presence, the feeling of an entity or a power standing beside you is actually quite simple-we imitate nature. 02:49 The person sets in a quiet room, like a cave. Their eyes are covered, like being in a dark setting, its very quiet, so the neurons, the nerve cells that typically are involved with seeing and hearing cannot be recruited into the characteristics of our applied field. 03:08 We then apply a certain type of magnetic field pattern over the brain-its very weak, very very weak, and it's like having a conversation. I mean, you don't have to scream to get a conversation's content across-you can whisper it. 03:20 The critical thing is the content of the of the sentence. So we apply complex magnetic fields, generated through computer, over the right hemisphere ... in a certain pattern. 03:28 Certain patterns, predictable patterns that imitate what the brain normally does during a visitation experience or a sense-present experience, that generate these feelings. MM: 03:40 And, what's your conclusion from this about, I guess, I mean my question I think would be, what do you conclude about--do you have a conclusion about the presence of God or is it some step short of that? MP: 03:55 Well our conclusion about the nature of the God experience is that there are certain patterns that can be generated experimentally that will generate the sense presence and the feeling of God-like experiences. 04:04 The patters we use are complex, but they imitate what the brain does normally. Now, our conclusion is that we now have a method, the scientific method, and we know have the procedures to study the God experience in a systematic way, and in an objective way, to understand the areas of the brain that generate it, and the patterns of activity that produce it. 04:24 1 think that's important, because if we can do it with our simple technology, more sophisticated technology could generate sensed presences and feelings of God experiences in entire populations. MM: 04:37 And do you-what do you draw from that-about religion, about the nature of religion? Do you draw from that that its primarily an experience of the brain? MP: 04:46 Well, we ... as a result of our experiments we began to look at all aspects of religious phenomena, and we note that there is now a religious behavior, there is a religious experience, there's God beliefs, and there's the institutions, the churches. 05:00 And these are different kinds of phenomena. The religious experience, the God experience is what were after primarily. Once you get into belief, that 's a different kind of phenomenon, because that's the way we structure our world ... that's a different area of the brain ... a different pattern. 05:13 But what we do know is that the experience, the core, around which belief evolves, is an intrinsic feature of brain activity. It's in the human brain, and you can generate it experimentally ... and that's the excitement, that's the science of it. MM: 05:27 Ok, do you draw from that ... that that is all that experience is? That religious experience is solely a function of the way the brain operates or do you believe that their might be other, or a natural, you know, additional explanations alongside. I guess what I'm wondering is do you think that's the final answer? MP: 05:45 Well, in terms of understanding what could produce the experience, as we know now the areas of the brain. We know now the kinds of patterns that can generate the God experience. The big question is what stimuli ... what causes ... around us can produce it? 05:59 We can do it electronically, but are there things in the environment, things in nature, are there stimuli in the nature that can do the same thing to our brains? 06:07 That question we must still measure. But I think the important question that obviously I will not circum ... sidestep, or try to circumlocute [phonetic] is does God exist or not, and I think the question, 06:18 or way to answer the question would be this: if you have a camera, and you take a picture of an apple, and you develop the picture, there's an apple. Well, there is no mystery, because the apple is there. 06:28 But if you take the same camera, take a picture of empty space, develop the picture, and there is an apple, but yet there was no apple in space, then you begin to suspect that perhaps that apple was because of the internal widng and the construction of the camera itself. 06:42 That's the hypothesis we're pursuing. 06:45 INTERRUPTION MM: 07:22 So Professor Perssinger, do you conclude from this that it is!logical to conclude that there really is no divine entity? MP: 07:36 The question is, does our research suggest that there is no God? Well, again that's a philosophic argument the way you would phrase it. I mean its an empty question, or an empty hypothesis and its not, what I'm going to say is not intended to offend anyone, but suppose I said that all of us are being controlled right now by nonphysical, invisible pink elephants. 07:59 Now, you may not like that idea, but prove they're not there. 08:03 The point is you can't because they're non-physical, and invisible, and so many kinds of words, in all cultures, there are certain phrases, certain beliefs that are non-testable because they never can be, and you may want to pursue that ... from the personal point of view that's fine 08:19 but a much more exciting area that's going to tell us how to control the experiences, how to control the God experience, can only be done by science, and by understanding the areas of the brain that produce it. MM: 08:32 Why is that important to do? Why do you \want to know that-why do we want to know that? MP: 08:36 1 think its, in the history of science, we have slowly, if you look at the last five hundred years, the uniqueness of the human being has been removed. We are no longer at the center of the universe, thanks to Copernicus. 08:48 And we're no longer probably a special creation or certainly there is some other explanation, thanks to Darwin. 08:54 And the uniqueness of rationality was certainly removed by the clever thinkings of Freud. So, the point is that the uniqueness of the human being may not be really that unique at all. There may be another revolution of about to begin, which is the last 09:09 mystical experience, the feeling that there is a God special for us maybe a property of our brain. 09:14 And we should understand it because if we can produce it with relatively rudimentary equipment then, suppose other people can produce a more effective kind of experience. And my consternation and concern would be that, in the history of science, when any new discovery is made, 09:35 it seems to be always used to eliminate the other side. MM: 09:40 Tell me more. I'm not quite following you ... tell me more. Your concern is... MP: 09:44 Well, in the history of science, when new things ... when new concepts have really been discovered, when new technologies have been discovered, from the atomic bomb to fire, what do we do with it as a species, because we are the most aggressive species that ever existed, 09:57 we are the T rex of the mammals, we kill everything in our hands, in our path. 10:01 So what will we do that's different now, than what we did when we developed the atomic bomb, or we developed fire as a species? My concern is that we have to understand the areas of the brain, and the magnetic patterns, or the electrical patterns within the brain that generate the experience, 10:17 because if it can now be created in thousands of people, artificially ... they have the conviction that they're doing something because God or Allah or Buddha told them to do it, then you have a very powerful population control. MM: 10:32 I see. That's interesting. I think that there are --- the other reason that some people are interested in this question is that they feel that, you know, religion is more than a divine experience, its more than a mystical experience, its more than even the sense of a divine being. I am sure there are many people who are profoundly religious who have never sensed the divine being. And yet, belief in something transcendent motivates their behavior. So, I guess what I'm wondering is do you really think there is any way to measure that? MP: 1 1:01 Well, yes, I mean, in fact, there are three basic divisions here. One is the God experience, then there's the belief, and then there's the camaraderie of being in a group that believes the same thing. Don't forget, we are primates, we are social animals 11:13 and being in a church or a synagogue or a mosque ... there's a certain feeling of camaraderie, and wholeness that goes with the fact we are group animals. 11:20 And so, you can have a feeling of wonder in a group, and if it's tied to a religion, or a political party, or whatever, you can have a sense of identity. 11:29 You're totally correct, religion is more than just the experience, its also the social behavior, and the institution and the fact that you can believe something that structures your environment, that reduces the-ultimate anxiety-that you will die. MM: 11:43 So you --- one of your concerns is that you want to understand how the brain functions, or how people function, or how the brain organizes itself around religion, how It's motivated to sort of believe and have certain experiences as a way to, I guess I would say inoculate people from being controlled by these forces. Is that about right? MP: 12:04 No, I'm just saying that if indeed the experience is of God, and mystical experiences can be produced by certain brain activity, and we know historically that's the case, and we now we have very good contemporary instrumentation to show that. 12:18 If we can now create it experimentally, basically turn it on, turn it off, that simply means we now have a new tool, a new discovery, a new way to understand and to explore a basic property of human behavior, and historically, we just have to be careful, because whenever new technologies have been discovered in the past, sometimes they've been abused 12:37 and used against other people. That's just a simple, routine control we apply to any scientific discovery, be it cloning or whatever. 12:45 INTERRUPTION MM: 15:01 Dr. Perssinger, when we talked to other folks about this, people who are both scientists and people who are theologians, their response to your argument is why can't it be both and ... why does it have to be either or. I mean, and for some reason with your crowd apples are the metaphor of choice, so we will go back to the apple. 15:18 1 mean, their argument is look if I take a picture of apple pie there are lots of ways I can sort of digitally reconstruct the apple, there are lots of techniques I can construct an apple with particularly today with a lot of modern technological tools at our disposal, but that doesn't exclude the presence of some sort divine being at the root of the apple's presence. So their argument is why can't they both things can't be true ... that the brain can sort of be hardwired to receive these experiences, but it could also be that there's a divine being there also. MP: 15:58 Well, in terms of the method of science, we can measure, totally correct, and indeed, the beauty of science is the pursuit of the unknown. 16:07 One thing we know about the history of science is the that the explanations we get for things now change ... in a hundred years. 16:14 The phenomena don't change. The classic example would be the fact that the sun comes up in the east and sets in the west. A thousand years ago people thought it was because everything went around the earth. But now we know the earth rotates and that's why we have those experiences. 16:27 The answer is yes, science is the pursuit of the unknown and we keep an open mind, the idea that the God experience or the God existence is an empty hypothesis simply means that we should be aware of that option, and that there may be the option that there are things out there that we don't know about. 16:47 That's the beauty of science, the pursuit of the unknown. 16:50 But my experience with people who want to have the dualistic approach, is that they want to put equal weight for both, and there is not equal weight empirically, for both. 17:01 If you want to believe, that's fine. Belief can be dangerous. There is no way to test it one way or the other. The scientific method, you can test it, and if we can generate the God experience, and alter the God belief experimentally, that means we have a tool by which we can truly understand what the brain's doing. 17:19 Who created it, if indeed it was created, becomes irrelevant. MM: 17:24 It's interesting that you say belief can be dangerous because, for believers or people with another point of view, that they think belief can be healing, saivic [phonetic] that belief is what sustains people when nothing else really should sustain them, and I just, you know... MP: 17:40 Beliefs are important, beliefs are how we structure our environment. Without beliefs, which is nothing more than a kind of pre-frontal lobe function that allows us to structure the ambiguities around us, it structures us from the really millions of unknowns and unexpectancies. 17:56 Without belief, we'd be in anxiety states most of the time. Belief structures things for us. 18:00 And there is nothing wrong with belief in that sense. There is nothing good or bad in it. It's just a way we adapt. 18:05 But if the belief is tied to ... your belief is best, and in order for your belief to be true you have to kill somebody else with a different belief, then the belief becomes dangerous. MM: 18:18 Ok, may I ask though, and I hope I can ask this without being offensive but, there have been articles in which you have been quoted, you have been described as an atheist, and that part of the motivation for this work is that you believe religion to be dangerous and is a destructive force and that's partly what ... now is that ... you know I recognize that that could be simplistic and offensive but I did want to ask is that the case? MP: 18:45 No, that's not the case. If indeed we're dealing with ... I do what I do in my personal life, and in my public life. I am a scientist. I use measurement. Most of the time, when I go to sleep at night, I realize insufficient data will be the answer I will have for the rest of my life. 19:01 But if we have to draw conclusions now, based upon the data,the answer would be more on the fact that there is no deity. 19:10 Put it this way ... the way to check ... and there is a way to test it. If the structure of the human brain is generating these experiences, then the way to test it empirically is to change the structure of the human brain ... mildly. 19:21 And to see what kinds of experiences occur. There are ways of testing it, and to fall and categorize people according to being a believer or non-believer may give individuals a sense of security, but it doesn't answer the question. 19:38 My point of view is lets measure it. Let's keep an open mind and let's realize that maybe there is no God. Maybe there might be. But let's ... we're not going to answer it by arguments. We're going to answer it by measurement and understanding the areas of the brain that generate the experience and the patterns that experimentally produce it in the laboratory. MM: 19:57 1 think that persons of faith, or let's say people with a different point of view on this, or people who believe in the divine would say that what ... the essence of the divine is that it is beyond human capacity to measure, that it is beyond our ... do you see my point...that that is what in fact defines the divine ... is this endless capacity ... that all we are using is metaphor ... that's why art, for example has really been the primary sort of vehicle by which we apprehend the divine, not science because art is the only thing that comes close to sort of capturing these experiences you know sort of metaphorically, do you see my point that ... there is nothing in the human capacity. So what is your thought on that? MP: 20:41 Well, all experience that we know comes from the brain. It's generated by the brain, and in fact we may find, in the pursuit of the unknown, and in fact, that's what science is, the pursuit of the unknown, if we went back two thousand years ago and looked at the contemporary what we're doing right now would have been unimaginable 20:57 So the point is, in many respects, the scientific method and the pursuit of the unknown is very much, very much like the pursuit of God, if you wish, because there is always something new to discover 21:07 but in terms of the feelings of aesthetics, remember all experiences come from the human brain. 21:12 Technically, and theoretically, I could stimulate areas of your brain that would make you feel like you were having tremendous meaningfulness. 21:20 Just because that's what that part of the brain does .... and I've always found it difficult for people to not appreciate ... that when you look at a sunset, and its beautiful and you experience that, there's changes in your brain, and your physiology. 21:33 Knowing how that works, knowing that your brain is generating it does not change the aesthetics of it. It gives you more feeling and understanding of how to produce a more acute and a more effective aesthetic. INTERRUPTION JO: 22:13 Well, the thought that came to mind, was you know, one of the reasons you're doing the research was this dark side, if you will. That someone who has greater technology than yours, and that actually gets funding--I might add, you know might be able to control people in these experiences, and that's dangerous. Is there something on the other side, where this research and this particular line of research could actually bring a great deal of benefit to people. MP: 22:44 1 think when we look at the ideas about what's bad or good about the God experience, or about experimentally duplicating it and producing it in the laboratory is to stay away from the fact that its always negative. 22:55 If you look at the spontaneous cases of people who have God experiences and conversions, their health improves. In fact, what we find is that there's a remarkable relationship between people who have God experiences and depression. 23:06 They're depressed ... they feel like there is nothing left in the world. And suddenly they're setting in a cathedral and they suddenly feel that a message is given to them, and suddenly they're converted, they understand the true purpose, and their life is changed. 23:19 And their physiology improves, their health improves. From our perspective, that's the brain doing that. You can call it anything you want, and give any attribution to it's cause, but the brain is doing it. 23:29 So if we can understand the patterns of activity that generate this experience, we may also be able to understand how to have the brain and hence the body cure itself. 23:38 We know there are certain patterns that we generate in our experimental animals that actually facilitate their healing, and can facilitate certain-physiological changes. 23:48 So there is a positive side, a very positive side to understanding what areas of the brain are activated in the God experience and how those areas of the brain influence the body and health. INTERRUPTION MM: 24:25 I do have one other question, which is now that ... you mentioned I think, some of the technologies that allow us to measure these things now certainly didn't exist sort of ten or fifteen years ago. What other questions do you have that you'd like to measure, lets say in the years ahead? I mean without obviously giving away anything proprietary about the direction of your research, what other questions do you have about the spiritual life that you would like to be able to document in the years ahead? MP: 24:55 Well I think, one of the major thrusts we're looking at now is the whole issue of creativity and insight. How information can often be experienced, presumably out of no where, by individuals who have religious experiences, often detailed experience. 25:13 It would be nice to know the areas of the brain that are involved with that. More, specifically, what happens when people are in large groups... INTERRUPTION 25:29 In the future I think that our thrust will be to try to understand what happens when groups of people are having religious experiences. Is there an emergent phenomena taking place that's greater than the sum of the parts. 25:41 In terms of ... that could influence large numbers of people to make decisions, very often undesirable ones. 25:47 The other features we are looking at is specific patterns of activity that can be induced experimentally, that will help heal specific ... that will tell the brain specifically all right produce this antibody, all right, produce this pattern that will change the activity within the 26:03 physiological systems, perhaps involved with cancer. 26:06 We are now looking at, for example, how to deal with depression. We now know that certain patterns will improve depression. 26:12 With very, very weak fields, and some of them are very close to the ones that generate the God experience. MM: 26:19 Ok, that's all I have. JO: 26:21 Two more short ones ... one is what was it like for you personally, when you first got the data, that you were giving people the experience they thought was coming from God. How did make you personally feel? MP: 26:37 Our first studies were involved with relaxation studies and when people started to report a sensed presence, and I began to realize that the sensed presence was probably the prototype, 26:47 the essence to all God experiences and visitation experiences in the history of human experience. 26:53 1 began to realize that perhaps now we have the tool to really understand it. 26:58 1 think human beings are fundamentally adaptable animals ... and they adapt to new changes and challenges and this is an important challenge, and now we have perhaps the experimental tool to go where we haven't been able to go before and only philosophers could argue. 27:14 Now perhaps we can answer it with empirical data. JO: 27:17 1 mean, I don't want to juice you up here, but it sounded to me as if you were giving these experiences that previously, they felt only God gave them. What did that do for you? MP: 27:29 Well, in terms of what that did for me is that it suggested that perhaps the God experience originates within the brain itself, that each person has this capacity to generate it, and that just maybe ... the sense of self is involved with the left hemisphere 27:45 but that equivalent to the sense of self in the right hemisphere maybe the experience of a presence, it may be the God experience itself. JO: 27:53 And Michel, the last question is Dr. Perssinger has gone beyond the helmet stage since the footage was taken in 98 so I wanted to ask you what's happened since that footage was taken in terms of equipment in terms of what you're able to discern.
24h Pujadas: [program of 02 August 2019]
V2/ I TESTED FOR YOU... APPS FOR HEALTHY EATING
Spirituality and the brain / NTL - Michael Perssinger Interview
Interview with Laurentian University professor Michael Perssinger for a Nightline spot on the brain and spirituality. Michel Martin: 01:00:32 Ok, Dr. Perssinger, if you would just identify yourself for the transcriber. Tell us who you are, what you do, and how you'd like to be identified. Michael Perssinger: 00:40 I'm Dr. Michael Perssinger. I'm a professor of neuroscience at Laurentia University in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. MM: 00:48 And are you a medical doctor? MP: 00:49 I'm a professor of neuroscience, which means I'm a PhD doctorate with a specialty in biology and psychology, and my outside, primary outside research was in the area of geophysics. MM: 01:02 Oh interesting. Now, we're interested in this question of the brain's function-or how the brain functions in spiritual experiences, and I just wanted to ask how you became interested in this form or research-in this kind of area. MP: 01:15 Well, our primary goal was to understand the sense of self. What is it about the human self, and what patterns in the brain generate the sense of self. In the process of studying this we began to stimulate the right hemisphere, the right side of the brain. 01:28 In eighty percent of our subjects, who didn't know the nature of the experiment, reported a sensed presence, a feeling of an entity, or something that was non-corporal [phonetic] standing beside them. 01:39 So we began to pursue the possibility, that the sense of presence, which is the basis of the muses and the visitations, the deities, may be intrinsic to the brain itself. MM: 01:50 1 think I might be asking you to go back just a little further, just to ask what stimulated your interest to begin with..in this area of work. Or is that what you were trying to answer? [paraphrase] MP: 02:02 Well, our interest in the basis ... the God-basis within the brain or the correlate within in the brain didn't start that way at all. Our primary interest was to understand the sense of human self, and the nature of creativity. 02:14 1 wasn't really particularly interested in the God question, because, it's a, from my point of view, an empty hypothesis. 02:20 You can't really test it one way or the other. I was more interested in the areas of the brain and the patterns of brain activity that generate the sense of self and ultimately that led to the discovery of the relationship between mystical experience and certain types of brain activity. MM: 02:35 Ok, Now, describe the experiment for me, if you would. MP: 02:39 Well, the primary procedure by which we which we elicited the sensed presence, the feeling of an entity or a power standing beside you is actually quite simple-we imitate nature. 02:49 The person sets in a quiet room, like a cave. Their eyes are covered, like being in a dark setting, its very quiet, so the neurons, the nerve cells that typically are involved with seeing and hearing cannot be recruited into the characteristics of our applied field. 03:08 We then apply a certain type of magnetic field pattern over the brain-its very weak, very very weak, and it's like having a conversation. I mean, you don't have to scream to get a conversation's content across-you can whisper it. 03:20 The critical thing is the content of the of the sentence. So we apply complex magnetic fields, generated through computer, over the right hemisphere ... in a certain pattern. 03:28 Certain patterns, predictable patterns that imitate what the brain normally does during a visitation experience or a sense-present experience, that generate these feelings. MM: 03:40 And, what's your conclusion from this about, I guess, I mean my question I think would be, what do you conclude about--do you have a conclusion about the presence of God or is it some step short of that? MP: 03:55 Well our conclusion about the nature of the God experience is that there are certain patterns that can be generated experimentally that will generate the sense presence and the feeling of God-like experiences. 04:04 The patters we use are complex, but they imitate what the brain does normally. Now, our conclusion is that we now have a method, the scientific method, and we know have the procedures to study the God experience in a systematic way, and in an objective way, to understand the areas of the brain that generate it, and the patterns of activity that produce it. 04:24 1 think that's important, because if we can do it with our simple technology, more sophisticated technology could generate sensed presences and feelings of God experiences in entire populations. MM: 04:37 And do you-what do you draw from that-about religion, about the nature of religion? Do you draw from that that its primarily an experience of the brain? MP: 04:46 Well, we ... as a result of our experiments we began to look at all aspects of religious phenomena, and we note that there is now a religious behavior, there is a religious experience, there's God beliefs, and there's the institutions, the churches. 05:00 And these are different kinds of phenomena. The religious experience, the God experience is what were after primarily. Once you get into belief, that 's a different kind of phenomenon, because that's the way we structure our world ... that's a different area of the brain ... a different pattern. 05:13 But what we do know is that the experience, the core, around which belief evolves, is an intrinsic feature of brain activity. It's in the human brain, and you can generate it experimentally ... and that's the excitement, that's the science of it. MM: 05:27 Ok, do you draw from that ... that that is all that experience is? That religious experience is solely a function of the way the brain operates or do you believe that their might be other, or a natural, you know, additional explanations alongside. I guess what I'm wondering is do you think that's the final answer? MP: 05:45 Well, in terms of understanding what could produce the experience, as we know now the areas of the brain. We know now the kinds of patterns that can generate the God experience. The big question is what stimuli ... what causes ... around us can produce it? 05:59 We can do it electronically, but are there things in the environment, things in nature, are there stimuli in the nature that can do the same thing to our brains? 06:07 That question we must still measure. But I think the important question that obviously I will not circum ... sidestep, or try to circumlocute [phonetic] is does God exist or not, and I think the question, 06:18 or way to answer the question would be this: if you have a camera, and you take a picture of an apple, and you develop the picture, there's an apple. Well, there is no mystery, because the apple is there. 06:28 But if you take the same camera, take a picture of empty space, develop the picture, and there is an apple, but yet there was no apple in space, then you begin to suspect that perhaps that apple was because of the internal widng and the construction of the camera itself. 06:42 That's the hypothesis we're pursuing. 06:45 INTERRUPTION MM: 07:22 So Professor Perssinger, do you conclude from this that it is!logical to conclude that there really is no divine entity? MP: 07:36 The question is, does our research suggest that there is no God? Well, again that's a philosophic argument the way you would phrase it. I mean its an empty question, or an empty hypothesis and its not, what I'm going to say is not intended to offend anyone, but suppose I said that all of us are being controlled right now by nonphysical, invisible pink elephants. 07:59 Now, you may not like that idea, but prove they're not there. 08:03 The point is you can't because they're non-physical, and invisible, and so many kinds of words, in all cultures, there are certain phrases, certain beliefs that are non-testable because they never can be, and you may want to pursue that ... from the personal point of view that's fine 08:19 but a much more exciting area that's going to tell us how to control the experiences, how to control the God experience, can only be done by science, and by understanding the areas of the brain that produce it. MM: 08:32 Why is that important to do? Why do you \want to know that-why do we want to know that? MP: 08:36 1 think its, in the history of science, we have slowly, if you look at the last five hundred years, the uniqueness of the human being has been removed. We are no longer at the center of the universe, thanks to Copernicus. 08:48 And we're no longer probably a special creation or certainly there is some other explanation, thanks to Darwin. 08:54 And the uniqueness of rationality was certainly removed by the clever thinkings of Freud. So, the point is that the uniqueness of the human being may not be really that unique at all. There may be another revolution of about to begin, which is the last 09:09 mystical experience, the feeling that there is a God special for us maybe a property of our brain. 09:14 And we should understand it because if we can produce it with relatively rudimentary equipment then, suppose other people can produce a more effective kind of experience. And my consternation and concern would be that, in the history of science, when any new discovery is made, 09:35 it seems to be always used to eliminate the other side. MM: 09:40 Tell me more. I'm not quite following you ... tell me more. Your concern is... MP: 09:44 Well, in the history of science, when new things ... when new concepts have really been discovered, when new technologies have been discovered, from the atomic bomb to fire, what do we do with it as a species, because we are the most aggressive species that ever existed, 09:57 we are the T rex of the mammals, we kill everything in our hands, in our path. 10:01 So what will we do that's different now, than what we did when we developed the atomic bomb, or we developed fire as a species? My concern is that we have to understand the areas of the brain, and the magnetic patterns, or the electrical patterns within the brain that generate the experience, 10:17 because if it can now be created in thousands of people, artificially ... they have the conviction that they're doing something because God or Allah or Buddha told them to do it, then you have a very powerful population control. MM: 10:32 I see. That's interesting. I think that there are --- the other reason that some people are interested in this question is that they feel that, you know, religion is more than a divine experience, its more than a mystical experience, its more than even the sense of a divine being. I am sure there are many people who are profoundly religious who have never sensed the divine being. And yet, belief in something transcendent motivates their behavior. So, I guess what I'm wondering is do you really think there is any way to measure that? MP: 1 1:01 Well, yes, I mean, in fact, there are three basic divisions here. One is the God experience, then there's the belief, and then there's the camaraderie of being in a group that believes the same thing. Don't forget, we are primates, we are social animals 11:13 and being in a church or a synagogue or a mosque ... there's a certain feeling of camaraderie, and wholeness that goes with the fact we are group animals. 11:20 And so, you can have a feeling of wonder in a group, and if it's tied to a religion, or a political party, or whatever, you can have a sense of identity. 11:29 You're totally correct, religion is more than just the experience, its also the social behavior, and the institution and the fact that you can believe something that structures your environment, that reduces the-ultimate anxiety-that you will die. MM: 11:43 So you --- one of your concerns is that you want to understand how the brain functions, or how people function, or how the brain organizes itself around religion, how It's motivated to sort of believe and have certain experiences as a way to, I guess I would say inoculate people from being controlled by these forces. Is that about right? MP: 12:04 No, I'm just saying that if indeed the experience is of God, and mystical experiences can be produced by certain brain activity, and we know historically that's the case, and we now we have very good contemporary instrumentation to show that. 12:18 If we can now create it experimentally, basically turn it on, turn it off, that simply means we now have a new tool, a new discovery, a new way to understand and to explore a basic property of human behavior, and historically, we just have to be careful, because whenever new technologies have been discovered in the past, sometimes they've been abused 12:37 and used against other people. That's just a simple, routine control we apply to any scientific discovery, be it cloning or whatever. 12:45 INTERRUPTION MM: 15:01 Dr. Perssinger, when we talked to other folks about this, people who are both scientists and people who are theologians, their response to your argument is why can't it be both and ... why does it have to be either or. I mean, and for some reason with your crowd apples are the metaphor of choice, so we will go back to the apple. 15:18 1 mean, their argument is look if I take a picture of apple pie there are lots of ways I can sort of digitally reconstruct the apple, there are lots of techniques I can construct an apple with particularly today with a lot of modern technological tools at our disposal, but that doesn't exclude the presence of some sort divine being at the root of the apple's presence. So their argument is why can't they both things can't be true ... that the brain can sort of be hardwired to receive these experiences, but it could also be that there's a divine being there also. MP: 15:58 Well, in terms of the method of science, we can measure, totally correct, and indeed, the beauty of science is the pursuit of the unknown. 16:07 One thing we know about the history of science is the that the explanations we get for things now change ... in a hundred years. 16:14 The phenomena don't change. The classic example would be the fact that the sun comes up in the east and sets in the west. A thousand years ago people thought it was because everything went around the earth. But now we know the earth rotates and that's why we have those experiences. 16:27 The answer is yes, science is the pursuit of the unknown and we keep an open mind, the idea that the God experience or the God existence is an empty hypothesis simply means that we should be aware of that option, and that there may be the option that there are things out there that we don't know about. 16:47 That's the beauty of science, the pursuit of the unknown. 16:50 But my experience with people who want to have the dualistic approach, is that they want to put equal weight for both, and there is not equal weight empirically, for both. 17:01 If you want to believe, that's fine. Belief can be dangerous. There is no way to test it one way or the other. The scientific method, you can test it, and if we can generate the God experience, and alter the God belief experimentally, that means we have a tool by which we can truly understand what the brain's doing. 17:19 Who created it, if indeed it was created, becomes irrelevant. MM: 17:24 It's interesting that you say belief can be dangerous because, for believers or people with another point of view, that they think belief can be healing, saivic [phonetic] that belief is what sustains people when nothing else really should sustain them, and I just, you know... MP: 17:40 Beliefs are important, beliefs are how we structure our environment. Without beliefs, which is nothing more than a kind of pre-frontal lobe function that allows us to structure the ambiguities around us, it structures us from the really millions of unknowns and unexpectancies. 17:56 Without belief, we'd be in anxiety states most of the time. Belief structures things for us. 18:00 And there is nothing wrong with belief in that sense. There is nothing good or bad in it. It's just a way we adapt. 18:05 But if the belief is tied to ... your belief is best, and in order for your belief to be true you have to kill somebody else with a different belief, then the belief becomes dangerous. MM: 18:18 Ok, may I ask though, and I hope I can ask this without being offensive but, there have been articles in which you have been quoted, you have been described as an atheist, and that part of the motivation for this work is that you believe religion to be dangerous and is a destructive force and that's partly what ... now is that ... you know I recognize that that could be simplistic and offensive but I did want to ask is that the case? MP: 18:45 No, that's not the case. If indeed we're dealing with ... I do what I do in my personal life, and in my public life. I am a scientist. I use measurement. Most of the time, when I go to sleep at night, I realize insufficient data will be the answer I will have for the rest of my life. 19:01 But if we have to draw conclusions now, based upon the data,the answer would be more on the fact that there is no deity. 19:10 Put it this way ... the way to check ... and there is a way to test it. If the structure of the human brain is generating these experiences, then the way to test it empirically is to change the structure of the human brain ... mildly. 19:21 And to see what kinds of experiences occur. There are ways of testing it, and to fall and categorize people according to being a believer or non-believer may give individuals a sense of security, but it doesn't answer the question. 19:38 My point of view is lets measure it. Let's keep an open mind and let's realize that maybe there is no God. Maybe there might be. But let's ... we're not going to answer it by arguments. We're going to answer it by measurement and understanding the areas of the brain that generate the experience and the patterns that experimentally produce it in the laboratory. MM: 19:57 1 think that persons of faith, or let's say people with a different point of view on this, or people who believe in the divine would say that what ... the essence of the divine is that it is beyond human capacity to measure, that it is beyond our ... do you see my point...that that is what in fact defines the divine ... is this endless capacity ... that all we are using is metaphor ... that's why art, for example has really been the primary sort of vehicle by which we apprehend the divine, not science because art is the only thing that comes close to sort of capturing these experiences you know sort of metaphorically, do you see my point that ... there is nothing in the human capacity. So what is your thought on that? MP: 20:41 Well, all experience that we know comes from the brain. It's generated by the brain, and in fact we may find, in the pursuit of the unknown, and in fact, that's what science is, the pursuit of the unknown, if we went back two thousand years ago and looked at the contemporary what we're doing right now would have been unimaginable 20:57 So the point is, in many respects, the scientific method and the pursuit of the unknown is very much, very much like the pursuit of God, if you wish, because there is always something new to discover 21:07 but in terms of the feelings of aesthetics, remember all experiences come from the human brain. 21:12 Technically, and theoretically, I could stimulate areas of your brain that would make you feel like you were having tremendous meaningfulness. 21:20 Just because that's what that part of the brain does .... and I've always found it difficult for people to not appreciate ... that when you look at a sunset, and its beautiful and you experience that, there's changes in your brain, and your physiology. 21:33 Knowing how that works, knowing that your brain is generating it does not change the aesthetics of it. It gives you more feeling and understanding of how to produce a more acute and a more effective aesthetic. INTERRUPTION JO: 22:13 Well, the thought that came to mind, was you know, one of the reasons you're doing the research was this dark side, if you will. That someone who has greater technology than yours, and that actually gets funding--I might add, you know might be able to control people in these experiences, and that's dangerous. Is there something on the other side, where this research and this particular line of research could actually bring a great deal of benefit to people. MP: 22:44 1 think when we look at the ideas about what's bad or good about the God experience, or about experimentally duplicating it and producing it in the laboratory is to stay away from the fact that its always negative. 22:55 If you look at the spontaneous cases of people who have God experiences and conversions, their health improves. In fact, what we find is that there's a remarkable relationship between people who have God experiences and depression. 23:06 They're depressed ... they feel like there is nothing left in the world. And suddenly they're setting in a cathedral and they suddenly feel that a message is given to them, and suddenly they're converted, they understand the true purpose, and their life is changed. 23:19 And their physiology improves, their health improves. From our perspective, that's the brain doing that. You can call it anything you want, and give any attribution to it's cause, but the brain is doing it. 23:29 So if we can understand the patterns of activity that generate this experience, we may also be able to understand how to have the brain and hence the body cure itself. 23:38 We know there are certain patterns that we generate in our experimental animals that actually facilitate their healing, and can facilitate certain-physiological changes. 23:48 So there is a positive side, a very positive side to understanding what areas of the brain are activated in the God experience and how those areas of the brain influence the body and health. INTERRUPTION MM: 24:25 I do have one other question, which is now that ... you mentioned I think, some of the technologies that allow us to measure these things now certainly didn't exist sort of ten or fifteen years ago. What other questions do you have that you'd like to measure, lets say in the years ahead? I mean without obviously giving away anything proprietary about the direction of your research, what other questions do you have about the spiritual life that you would like to be able to document in the years ahead? MP: 24:55 Well I think, one of the major thrusts we're looking at now is the whole issue of creativity and insight. How information can often be experienced, presumably out of no where, by individuals who have religious experiences, often detailed experience. 25:13 It would be nice to know the areas of the brain that are involved with that. More, specifically, what happens when people are in large groups... INTERRUPTION 25:29 In the future I think that our thrust will be to try to understand what happens when groups of people are having religious experiences. Is there an emergent phenomena taking place that's greater than the sum of the parts. 25:41 In terms of ... that could influence large numbers of people to make decisions, very often undesirable ones. 25:47 The other features we are looking at is specific patterns of activity that can be induced experimentally, that will help heal specific ... that will tell the brain specifically all right produce this antibody, all right, produce this pattern that will change the activity within the 26:03 physiological systems, perhaps involved with cancer. 26:06 We are now looking at, for example, how to deal with depression. We now know that certain patterns will improve depression. 26:12 With very, very weak fields, and some of them are very close to the ones that generate the God experience. MM: 26:19 Ok, that's all I have. JO: 26:21 Two more short ones ... one is what was it like for you personally, when you first got the data, that you were giving people the experience they thought was coming from God. How did make you personally feel? MP: 26:37 Our first studies were involved with relaxation studies and when people started to report a sensed presence, and I began to realize that the sensed presence was probably the prototype, 26:47 the essence to all God experiences and visitation experiences in the history of human experience. 26:53 1 began to realize that perhaps now we have the tool to really understand it. 26:58 1 think human beings are fundamentally adaptable animals ... and they adapt to new changes and challenges and this is an important challenge, and now we have perhaps the experimental tool to go where we haven't been able to go before and only philosophers could argue. 27:14 Now perhaps we can answer it with empirical data. JO: 27:17 1 mean, I don't want to juice you up here, but it sounded to me as if you were giving these experiences that previously, they felt only God gave them. What did that do for you? MP: 27:29 Well, in terms of what that did for me is that it suggested that perhaps the God experience originates within the brain itself, that each person has this capacity to generate it, and that just maybe ... the sense of self is involved with the left hemisphere 27:45 but that equivalent to the sense of self in the right hemisphere maybe the experience of a presence, it may be the God experience itself. JO: 27:53 And Michel, the last question is Dr. Perssinger has gone beyond the helmet stage since the footage was taken in 98 so I wanted to ask you what's happened since that footage was taken in terms of equipment in terms of what you're able to discern.